The Aug. 7 vote on whether to allow a casino in Sedgwick County could be a toss up. A new KWCH-Channel 12 Eyewitness News/Wichita Eagle poll shows that 50 percent of likely voters supporting a casino and 49 percent opposing it. If accurate, that means turnout will decide the election — and that likely favors the opponents, who have been much more organized and passionate than casino supporters.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
124 Comments
Phillip,
The Eagle NO opinion sucked and increasingly articles challenging validity of the YES, YES vote winning are tiresome.
Your group has made the NO stance known. Sell outs unwilling to agree $225 Million being spent in the City and County. If placed in the City limits, the cost will be close to $300 Million.
Willing to sell out the Casino to Sumner County.
Millions spent in positive economic ways before one cent is gambled.
During the time of construction, community groups or the Eagle if they cared, could provide information and help forums for problem gambling.
Won’t they be doing that anyway if the Casino is in Sumner County?
So actions to help potential gambling “degenerates”, will still occur but this community won’t have Millions of dollars being spent here.
Move the Eagle to Sumner County if that is such a great place to do business.
The City came out with future planning ideas.
Improve Century II. Have the Canadians pay for those improvements if they want the land down there.
Library wants to move. Canadians want to buy the building.
City sell the Hyatt, right? Canadians want to purchase it.
Mayor Brewer wants to talk about tax money improving Century II, constructing a new Library building and continuing to pay for the Hyatt.
Mayor Brewer when a Council member wasn’t at the meetings with George Kolb and Tom Docking discussing the Canadian Casino planning.
Because he’s Mayor, no way that plan is dead. Because his backers are well known executives in the NO campaign, he has to hate that plan.
This is the opportunity for tax money not to be used in those locations.
No matter many foolishly believed Century II might have been sold or they have a cultural fear of ARTS being next door to the Casino, that’s the best location to me.
Casino front doors facing the river. Encouraging people to stroll along the river more often.
The bias against that plan and how Casino investment money could take the place of tax money being spent is strange to me.
Some people want Ruffin’s plan to win, fine. Long as the Casino is in Wichita city limits.
I want this rare plan for new money spent, take some City property they are willing to sell and save tax money being used.
Some people want to vote No because they believe the State shouldn’t own Casino’s. They don’t trust where Topeka will locate a Casino.
Voting NO won’t change anything in Topeka,it only punishes this community so $300 Million isn’t spent here.
The same people who complain about the “Nanny State” will kill this issue. I don’t want to hear the religious fanatics complain the next time they raise your taxes.
If I was a gamblin man, I would bet that it will not pass. The yes people don’t care enough about it to go out and vote. The no people do.
“Some people want to vote No because they believe the State shouldn’t own Casino’s. They don’t trust where Topeka will locate a Casino.”
Mrage,I don’t think the state should be in the gambling business period. It has nothing to do with where it goes on, but everything to do with the hypocrisy of the whole thing: you can’t hold a friendly card game because of state laws, but the state can build casinos.
My no vote has nothing to do with politics, “earmarks”, religious leanings, or where it’s built. It stems from what I see as the hypocrisy of the whole thing.
There is already a percentage of the take earmarked for addiction, thus creating a problem, but making sure it is taken care of . . . sort of, kind of, we’re working on it.
Not what I would call a beneficial way to fund programs, especially schools, as it gives a hypocritical message to kids.
It will be supported by the public, if passed, but at what cost to the public. I have no problem seeing welfare checks being spent, in toto, in vain attempts to beat the bills. And all that supported by the state. Not my idea of good stewardship by the state.
You can take it from this religious fanatic that a downtown casino will be devastating to the poor and homeless in Wichita. These people are in an endless struggle to handle their finances and they do a terrible job of handling their money. They are generally compulsive and impulsive, and the last thing they need is to have a giant “get rich quick” temptation so close.
I keep hearing the argument, vote yes/yes because the casino is coming to Sumner County anyway. That argument is totally bogus. If you MUST have your casino, have a heart, and build it out of reach of those who can least afford it’s negative effects on their lives. Downtown is the LAST place we need a casino. Mark my words, it WILL bring ruin to lives and it will bring with it an insurmountable burden on the charities and agencies that attempt to help these folks. We, as taxpayers and volunteers, will all pay the price for the developers and outside interests to get wealthy. If you “must” vote yes, vote yes for the dog track, but please, please, please vote NO for a downtown casino!
Agreed Sam, I OPPOSE putting a GAMBLING CASINO downtown where it will be in easy reach of those who can least afford to gamble their money away.
Regarding money set aside for gambling addicts, this money would only reach a small portion of those who gamble away their family money and then in the form of counseling.
A father who gambles away $100, the family’s weekly grocery money, WON’T qualify for gambling addict assistance although his wife and family won’t have adequate food for the week.
Likewise, a single mother with three kids in tattered clothing losing her last paycheck in a downtown slot machine WON’T qualify for gambling addict assistance.
The business man who loses his mom and pop business to gambling fever WON’T be given his losses back but might be offered counseling.
Marriages that end in divorce won’t ever be put back together again. One parent families will grow.
These cases won’t make the news on the local TV, radio stations and in the newspapers. People will look away, seeing only the glittering, flashing lights of the casinos.
REMEMBER, CASINOS PRODUCE NOTHING — NOTHING OF VALUE. THEY ARE BASICALLY A CASH PYRAMID OPERATION DISIGNED TO VACUUM MONEY, BIG MONEY AS RAPIDLY AS POSSIBLE FROM WICHITA.
FINE FOR LAS VEGAS … TERRIBLE FOR WICHITA.
Many have to lose so a very few can win.
WAH, WAH, WAH, you “antis-” really nauseate me. All the gloom and doom. Here’s an idea, stop trying to tell ME and the rest of the world what OUR moral standards should be. I’m not much into gambling, but I will (and all members of my family) will be voting YES, YES on this issue.
This decision is a no-brainer!
MRage: You should be ashamed of your position on gambling. Your vision is to build a football stadium somewhere in downtown Wichita if you can find an investor WHO BELIEVES HE WILL BE PAID BACK WITH INTEREST.
Never mind that football is a gradually dying sport for a number of reasons: too expensive, doesn’t treat females and males equally, encourages athletic activities for the few and watching from bleachers by the many. Where have I heard this phrase before?
Nevertheless, you of all people should oppose gambling because of its effect on the youth of this community — the very ones your vision seeks to help.
As a potential developer, you should understand that the up front money is not a donation to the community by the developers. The up front money is a development loan from a bank, insurance company, etc. THAT IS EXPECTED TO BE REPAID BY THE GAMBLERS THAT USE THE FACILITY.
Sorry no gift horse here.
The downtown arena is a horse of a different color because the “developer,” the County Commissioners including the holdover commissioners, DAVE UNRUH, TOM WINTERS, AND TIM NORTON cleverly put the cost on the backs of the local taxpayers WHO DON’T WANT THE ARENA. In this case the taxpayers are handing over the $300,000,000.32 for the arena without even a kiss from these holdover county commissioners.
SO BOTTOM-LINE, VOTE NO, NO ON THESE MONEY SPONGING GAMBLING PROPOSALS AND LEAVE IT IN LAS VEGAS WHERE IT BELONGS.
Nobody is stopping you from gambling if you want to. The point is that casinos should be located where it takes at least a little effort for most people to get there. Yes there are people who go to Oklahoma, but they are people who can afford to do so for entertainment. The poor, who would have every opportunity to lose what they have, would be at a downtown Wichita casino seeking that pot of gold, but rarely drive to Oklahoma (and even Sumner County would be an inconvenience). It is really interesting to see how the anti-Christian people love to use this issue as an excuse to display their hostility toward so-called “religious fanatics”, while those opposing the casino rarely even use religious arguments in the first place. There are plenty of clear economic arguments for voting no.
You forgot another important fact about the KWCH poll. 58% of those polled say they will vote for slots at the Dog track.
That’s a comfortable margin. I still believe the casino will pass, although narrowly, but I’m sure the JWink’s will want a re-vote.
Vote NO-YES.
I heard an ad this morning supporting slots at the track separate from the casino. I think Ruffin is hedging his bets.
My prediction, made several weeks ago, stands: The casino will be rejected by the voters of Sedgwick County. I made that prediction when polls showed it winning 70-30. However, I think the track might win.
Joe -
“I’m sure the JWink’s will want a re-vote.”
Why not? How many times did the arena backers get a re-vote until it passed?
What’s good for the goose . . . .
Go ahead Wichita, vote it down. Shoot yourselves in the foot. Again.
The rest of the state, in case you havent noticed, doesnt care. Gaming is here. To stay. If you dont want it? Fine. Others do.
You will still get the negative effects and none of the postitive effects on your economy. Just dont come back whining later and want some of the money.
And the sheeple sleep…
1. The state should not own a casino.
2. The Kansas Constitution does not allow for casino gambling.
3. Our state is changing the definition of gambling to try and circumvent the constitution.
4. The bill that passed the legislature was not heard in committee and the senate was not allowed to amend the bill.
Vote NO!
Both a casino and slot machines in Sedgwick county will be approved by voters, but the margin will be close due to the slick ad campaigns and religious doomsday prophecies being spilled out.
Most ‘average’ citizens may want to go to a casino every once in a while, and are not afraid that the end of the world is coming if we approve one. All of you oldtimers and ultra conservatives may not realize it, but many of our young professionals are moving away because of lack of entertainment options in this city. Some people like to go play poker or blackjack a couple times a month instead of going to movies!
Crime is already here, gambling is already here, and addiction is already here. Adding one casino is not going to significantly increase those things. Even if we get a small percentage (2%) it is better than nothing. If you no people are going to argue that a casino is not going to enhance EVERYONES ‘overall’ way of life, then go picket every liquor store and bingo parlor in this city that is open or plans to, because this is your logic.
The NO people are shouting the loudest, but the YES people will show up and vote as the majority.
“The NO people are shouting the loudest, but the YES people will show up and vote as the majority.”
From your lips to god’s ears…
So if this casino vote passes, where is the casino going to go? Downtown? South Wichita? Park City? Towanda?
The last thing I want is another appointed board deciding where to put another ‘attraction’. Since this is a state owned casino, you can bet the state will use eminent domain to get their hands on the best realestate.
There was only one prior arena vote, and that was a city election vote on a city downtown arena in 1993, for which only 26,000 people voted that time.
The downtown arena vote that passed in 2004, during a presidential election year was a county wide vote for a replacement of the britt brown arena of a county downtown arena, for which over 171,000 people voted that time.
But that’s in the past and a done deal.
Time to focus on Casinos.
Eminet domain can not be used to locate a casino, that is in the law.
Local government has to approve the location so everyone will have an opportunity to influence your local elected officals about where it goes.
Another point Poster Boy! $300 million dollars in capital investment, by the private sector. Not a dime from taxpayers.
NO-YES will give Sedgwick County a privately owned de facto casino just outside of Wichita on I-135. There will be zero uncertainty about the location.
Since 87% of a casino’s gaming revenues come from slots I suspect that the developers will choose not to try to compete with that down in Sumner County. So, Sedgwick County gets the revenues without the ‘pig-in-a-poke’ concerne with the casino proposal.
Telling me I should ‘trust’ the politicians to pick the best site etc for a casino is ludicrous.
Casino: loses 55-45Track: wins 55-45
Ben! I wouldn’t gamble on Sumner County not getting a Casino if it gets voted down here in Sedgwick.
Remember, even places like New Kirk have 4 Casinos, so competition isn’t stop a casino.
Sumner County Casino developers will still build it. Their phone is ringing off the hook from Casino developers and just slots at the Dog Track isn’t going to stop them.
It would be interesting, that in December we learn that the Casinos South of the border and up at Topeka were bankrolling the No vote on Casinos.
They would be the ones with deep pockets and wanting the No Vote to win
While I agree that a state run casino may not be the best option, I do plan to vote yes to allow casinos in Sedgwick County. I also hope we get additional voting on location etc.
Doomsday prophecies about a local casino are just that. You can’t protect people from themselves, and everyone knows, or should know, that every choice has a consequence. MOST people (not all) make good choices in their everyday lives. Some don’t whether it’s alcohol, smoking, drugs, food, sex or too much tv watching, pick your ‘poison’. Yes, there will be some that succumb, but many, many more will gamble responsibly. I understand Kanssam’s point of having the downtown arena, so let’s build it north of town. There are already several hotels conveniently located there.The point is, you can’t legislate morality (or stupidity), and you can’t save people from themselves. It’s up to each of us to make good choices in our lives. In my humble opinion I think there are many more important social battles to fight.
While I agree that a state run casino may not be the best option, I do plan to vote yes to allow casinos in Sedgwick County. I also hope we get additional voting on location etc.
Doomsday prophecies about a local casino are just that. You can’t protect people from themselves, and everyone knows, or should know, that every choice has a consequence. MOST people (not all) make good choices in their everyday lives. Some don’t whether it’s alcohol, smoking, drugs, food, sex or too much tv watching, pick your ‘poison’. Yes, there will be some that succumb, but many, many more will gamble responsibly. I understand Kanssam’s point of having the downtown arena, so let’s build it north of town. There are already several hotels conveniently located there.The point is, you can’t legislate morality (or stupidity), and you can’t save people from themselves. It’s up to each of us to make good choices in our lives. In my humble opinion I think there are many more important social battles to fight.
While I agree that a state run casino may not be the best option, I do plan to vote yes to allow casinos in Sedgwick County. I also hope we get additional voting on location etc.
Doomsday prophecies about a local casino are just that. You can’t protect people from themselves, and everyone knows, or should know, that every choice has a consequence. MOST people (not all) make good choices in their everyday lives. Some don’t whether it’s alcohol, smoking, drugs, food, sex or too much tv watching, pick your ‘poison’. Yes, there will be some that succumb, but many, many more will gamble responsibly. I understand Kanssam’s point of having the downtown arena, so let’s build it north of town. There are already several hotels conveniently located there.The point is, you can’t legislate morality (or stupidity), and you can’t save people from themselves. It’s up to each of us to make good choices in our lives. In my humble opinion I think there are many more important social battles to fight.
While I agree that a state run casino may not be the best option, I do plan to vote yes to allow casinos in Sedgwick County. I also hope we get additional voting on location etc.
Doomsday prophecies about a local casino are just that. You can’t protect people from themselves, and everyone knows, or should know, that every choice has a consequence. MOST people (not all) make good choices in their everyday lives. Some don’t whether it’s alcohol, smoking, drugs, food, sex or too much tv watching, pick your ‘poison’. Yes, there will be some that succumb, but many, many more will gamble responsibly. I understand Kanssam’s point of having the downtown arena, so let’s build it north of town. There are already several hotels conveniently located there.The point is, you can’t legislate morality (or stupidity), and you can’t save people from themselves. It’s up to each of us to make good choices in our lives. In my humble opinion I think there are many more important social battles to fight.
Sorry about the triple post. My browser was having a fit.
A simple case study:>> Assumes 1 Person with $100 disposable income: the person is not YOU, so your spending may be different<<
(NOW) - $20-Cotillion Band, $15-Dinner, $14-Movie&Snacks, $10-Charity, $41-Local Shopping.
(Post-Arena) - $50-Arena Concert, $15-Dinner, $14-Movie&Snacks, $10-Charity, $11-Local Shopping.
(Post Casino) - $25-Gambling, $15-Dinner at Casino, $25-Show at Casino, $14-Movie&Snacks, $20-Shopping at Casino, $1-Charity, $0-Arena Tickets, $0-Local Shopping.
These numbers are made up, but you can see my point WHO is going to lose on this deal. The small entertainment venues, the local dining and shopping establishments, the local charities, and YOU, the taxpayer!
1. The state should not own a casino.
2. The Kansas Constitution does not allow for casino gambling.
3. Our state is changing the definition of gambling to try and circumvent the constitution.
The above is likely true, but 2 and 3 may have been ruled moot (I am not sure) Number 1 is an excellent point, they can;t run anything right.
If I lived in sedgwick county, I would vote yes and yes. Someone is getting the money, keep it at home.However, I would prefer a constitutional amendment legalizing gambling in the state, and allowing private ownership
“I also hope we get additional voting on location etc.”
AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN WICHIWOMN.
The politicos will decide where.
Joe! I am not saying they won’t build it in Sumner; I am saying I think they will have second thoughts. Remember, there is a rather large threshold required that is very different from Newkirk etc.
By the way, those voting early will be misled by the flyers stating times at the various polling places.
Most all do not open up until noon, regardless of what the flyer states.
Another foopah by the Election office.
Thanks Kansas. I will probably vote this evening.
I will give Bill Gale credit - I think he is doing the best he can with limited resources. I suspect that the extended hours are more important in the evening than the morning.
This issue is obviously ripe with hyperbole. If Casinos come to Wichita the Sun will not go out. However, the impact will be significant. The arguement that there will be a “Destination Casino” in Wichita is unlikely, but a “Destination Casino” in Summner County - Are you serious. Voting No will not mean that there will be significant revenue loss to our south. Today, I hear Ruffin’s Commercial for No - Yes Vote. Ruffin definitely wants the Slots, and for $800,000 I guess he wants something. How sad that all of the “Yes, Yes” people will not put money or time into their campaign is sad. I have invested time and support for the issue. Those who think that there is some type of outside support from the religious right are incorrect. They are busy raising support for their own concerns. I think we can safely assume that the community leaders who have spoke out against the casinos have put their money behind the effort, because they know it is the wise decision for their business. We should follow their lead and vote “NO - NO”
Those running the vote yes campaign are a day late and a dollar short (to use an old addage).
I’ve been seeing vote no commercials for weeks, I just saw my first vote yes commercial.
I’ve seen 2 vote yes yard signs, I can’t count the number of vote no signs I’ve seen.
I’ve gotten a mailing from the NO group, nothing from the YES crowd.
When it comes to who is organized and on the ball it is clearly the NO group(s). As for the yes folks, thank goodness they don’t represent us in Topeka, they would never get anything done.
Re-post from July 13 - with an update at the bottom:
*********************************
July 13, 2007
Why the Casino vote will fail:
This does not represent so much my preferences but rather my predictions on the up-coming casino vote. I think it will be defeated; there are several reasons for this.
1. The ‘religious right’.
This group of people, led by Mark Kahrs, is powerful beyond its numbers. The reason: THEY WILL TURN OUT AND VOTE. Let us assume, just for the sake of discussion, that this group is 10% of the public and that half of them vote. That means a 5% vote NO from that group. With overall turnout at less than 20% this gives the “NO” vote a good start.
2. The Arena effect
This one is a lot different and effects different people. Polls (KWCH and the Eagle) have shown that 2/3 of Sedgwick County residents have turned against the Arena. Many of the same people who are pushing the casino “Vote YesYesWinWin” are those who pushed the Arena “Vote Yea!” campaign. The sour feeling many people have about the cost overruns with the arena will spill over to the casino effort; a sort of “guilt by association”.
3. Uncertainty of location
This feeds off #2. Many people support a casino with particular locations in mind. There are those who are adamant that it be downtown and nowhere else. There are others who worry that a casino downtown might be a bad idea. This is exacerbated by the talk – even though denied – of selling Century II to a casino developer. Since C-II has been Wichita’s center for the performing arts and for other uses the loss of that facility concerns many people. Promises that it will not be sold or that it would be replaced if sole ring hollow; there is not much trust any more.
4. Business leaders.
Many respected business leaders such as Russ Meyers and Charles Chandler and others have come out against a downtown casino. These people command a fair amount of respect in Wichita; it will be difficult for the casino crowd to label them “Wichita-haters” or “CAVE people.” Many otherwise undecided voters will look at them and ask themselves “What have they figured out about this proposal that convinces them it is bad for Wichita?”
5. Young professionals
Another group, “We Believe in Wichita”, has come out against the casino. This group of professionals led by Jon Rolph, executive VP of Carlos O’Kelley’s, will reach out to other YOUNG professionals in Wichita. Although the casino promoters will likely attempt to label them “Wichita-haters” and “CAVE people” this attempt will fail.
6. Who is backing casinos?
So far, the only ‘pro-casino’ presence has come from the promoters themselves and a few of those who are involved in the Arena. We have not seen any significant Wichita business/community leaders come out in favor of the casino.
So, what will happen on election day? My guess is that the hard-core “NO” group (#1 above) will turn out heavily. The rest of the items above will likely split the rest of the electorate and/or just keep them home. I have met very few hard-core “YES” voters; many of us ‘tend toward YES’ but don’t feel we have a dog in this fight. So, many will simply not bother voting. Many others, swayed by the uncertainties concerning location, economic impact, etc, will vote NO. Others still will vote NO out of distrust of those politicos who are making promises.
Turn-out: Less then 20%Result: 60-40 against.
How can it be turned around?
I think the pro-casino group might be able to turn this around. The key would be to find some respected Wichitans to come out in favor of the casino. This is needed to counteract the effect of those respected leaders who have come out against it. These cannot be just politicians; they must be non-political community leaders.
I think most people can still be convinced one way or another; as noted there are few die-hards on either side. However, right now the “NO” side is putting up much more persuasion than is the “YES” side.
8/2/2007 addendum
Yea-Yea-Rah-Rah has been advertising heavily; I think that will increase turnout and tighten things a bit. Prediction is now casinos lose 55-45.
An interesting development this morning: There is a new add pushing just the slots at the track. I think Ruffin is hedging his bets. The ad notes that we know where the track is and won’t have to worry about location. Smart move by Ruffin IMO.
With the de-coupling of the question: track wins 55-45.
About the same as I would predict Ben.
Very good write up by the way, lots of clarity there.
Of course, I will supply some beaten eggs, in case both of us have to wear said eggs on our faces.
I’m ready for a vote on legalized prostitution. This city needs some quality whores….not those skanks seen on the cop’s web page. Barf.
Ben,
Did you previously say you have never been out to the dog track?
Now your leaning toward voting for ONLY slots at the dog track and not a full Casino in Wichita.
How does that pull you to the track?
I hate going in that direction and many people who voted for the Arena downtown, don’t like it either.
I’m personally doing things to cut my commute miles down. Sumner County will never see me, because I wouldn’t go there just to gamble.
I don’t expect visitors here to arrive in Wichita and only gamble. There has to be more to see and do.
I don’t talk about how the gambling lifestyle will affect any family. I only see the $300 Million Wichita could use and its not taxpayers money.
Please vote no on casinos. Our state is already heavily involved in sin with the lottery and half a dozen other wasteful ventures. We have nothing to show for the lottery money and the casino money will only promote more spending of taxpayer money. Proven facts abound. Someone has to clear the temple.
We already have plenty of nice, private casino’s our citizens who are not bible believers can spend their money at. It is not fair to the existing legal casino’s for this new state run venture to go forward.
You will also be voting for more families to live in poverty and misery due to a gambling addicted parent (and yes, there are documented numbers associated with gambling addicts out there too).
Please vote no on casino’s. This supports your moral, ethical, and christian beliefs.
How do you feel about firewater on Sundays, Chief?
“How does that pull you to the track?”
IT DOESN’T. I NEVER SAID IT WOULD. HOWEVER, IT WOULD ATTRACT THOSE WHO LIKE SLOTS. AND, WHO KNOWS, IF RUFFIN PUTS IN GOOD FOOD THAT MIGHT ATTRACT ME.
“I hate going in that direction and many people who voted for the Arena downtown, don’t like it either.”
WHO CARES? A CLEAR MAJORITY OF SEDGWICK COUNTY RESIDENTS NOW OPPOSE YOUR ARENA.
And not all of us live downtown.
The casino legislation is unfair to counties surrounding those approved for casino’s. The business leaving MY county to put quarters in slot machines is real. Casino’s are a destination day trip. They draw gasoline, hotel, restaurant, and cigarrette dollars AWAY from my cities and into yours. MY businesses will loose and YOURS will gain.
Totally screwed up legislation.
VOTE NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The libs that have vowed revenge in voting in something Christian Conservatives are against, here is your chance.Put up or shut up left wingers.
There are plenty of good clean casino’s in Kansas. We don’t need state run casino’s to compete with local businesses and other casino’s. The state will be very full of crime and money changers.Support your fellow Kansas residents who have a proven track record in legal gambling. Support the fine casino establishments we already have:
HORTONGolden Eagle CasinoHorton, KS
MAYETTAPrairie Band Casino
Mayetta, KS
Prairie Band Potawatomi BingoMayetta, KS
POWHATTANSac & Fox CasinoPowhattan, Kansas
WHITE CLOUDCasino White Cloud
White Cloud, Kansas
Remember - the track is closer to Fox’s church than downtown is. Vote NO-YES.
The only thing I am really opposed to is the 2%.Other communities get a larger cut. Wichita should hold out for more.
On Aug. 1, 2007 Jim Schuster, CEO of Hawker Beechcraft Corp., sent an email to all employees urging them to vote no against bringing a casino and slot machines to Wichita and Sedgwick County. Mr. Schuster says in his letter that “preserving our community’s values and character is critically important to the long term success of Hawker Beechcraft.” I wonder what happened to Mr. Schuster’s values and character when he stood on the tailgate of a truck and announced that all 400 of the wire-harness jobs were going to stay here in Wichita because of the hard work and dedication of the employees in that department, yet a year later nearly all 400 of those jobs were shipped south of the border to Mexico. For him to now appear concerned about this community is a slap in the face to every one of those people. Expanded gambling in Wichita is a huge issue and each of us should become educated about it. All I would say is be very careful who you listen to. I can assure you that there are others just like Jim Schuster that care more about the almighty dollar than the workers that create that dollar.
Such a letter is likely to be counter-productive.
Does White Cloud even have a traffic light?
Does White Cloud even have a traffic light?
Posted by: Kansas | August 02, 2007 at 03:30 PM
How the heck would I know. I’m out of the corporate office. But we support all the wonderful and entertaining and existing casino’s in our state.
Schuster isn’t threating to relocate like INTRUST and CARGILL CEO’s mention they will abandon downtown.
That’s an implied threat to employees. Moving from long time established locations out of spite.
CARGILL has murmured about moving because they are running out of office space downtown, but a relocation to the far east side possibly, some won’t like that commute.
Those executives risk employees doing the opposite of what they desire.
Executives don’t trust the families of employees. Don’t trust employees with free time.
They have to be ordered out of certain establishments. Executives want to control lifestyle of workers 24/7.
I simply want $300 Million spent in Wichita city limits,its fantastic amount of development money. This community can craft ways to protect the most “addictive type” people.
Families who don’t enter the casino or racino aren’t affected!
As a regional threat to other counties Casino plans, some outside forces don’t want want Wichita to have a full Casino.
For competition reasons Wichita shouldn’t improve. Other communities require Wichitans to visit and don’t want to lose those visitors. KC counts on Wichita and did for years, people from here attending events at Kemper Arena.
Sprint Center in KC, The Royals and Chiefs count on Wichitans.
If we have things here to see and do, some won’t go far to those places as often.
HOK builders of the Sprint Center influenced our smaller Arena so its not in direct competition. HOK is constructing the smallest regional Arena in this four state area, downtown.
A facility that can’t even attract KU to play downtown occasionally based on the few seats and the game not on national TV.
Fans of KU here will continue traveling to KC and the Sprint Center likes it that way.
With the high prices at our airport in years past, KC and Oklahoma City counted on Wichitans driving to fly from those airports.
Because Wichita hasn’t had certain facilities, other communities have counted Wichitans traveling.
Ben,You now don’t support the Arena and will vote N0 for a Casino.
You like Wichita? That Goddard School District separation has gone too far.
Mistrust the local governments and state government your only injuring Wichita.
Russ Meyer supports the Arena.
At least he doesn’t want to travel out to the Coliseum area. He doesn’t want the dog track slots either.
Maybe people hate the idea of parking downtown, doesn’t mean they would want the Arena in the Coliseum location.
Stupid might believe Wichita could exist without an Arena. How dumb would we be when neighoring communities have their Arena’s and are proud of those facilities.
Our Arena doesn’t yet have a corporate partner is the difference.
Mrage - Our arena does have a corporate sponsor now. It’s in the paper somewhere, but for the life of me I can’t remember who it is right at this moment.
Sorry Mrage, not a corporate sponsor, a manager.
Managers will pay any arena lossesOn a 3-2 vote, Sedgwick County commissioners approve a five-year contract with SMG to run the arena.
SMG should have been hired earlier. The County has done a poor job marketing the Arena idea. All those days worrying about a re-vote. People desperately want to know what events might happen in the Arena.
SMG can do a better job marketing the Arena with a corporate partner.
They could bid for better post season college basketball tournaments if the Arena had 18,000 seats for basketball. Be equal in seating with regional Arena’s.
I’m trying to influence some people in local corps to help. Influence their CEO’s to stop worrying about the Casino and stay focused on the Arena.
No corporate suggested they were moving from downtown because of the Arena.
More family entertainment could happen in the Arena.
Mrage - it is YOU who is hurting Wichita, not me. And this has nothing whatever to do with Goddard schools.
“I’m trying to influence some people in local corps to help. Influence their CEO’s to stop worrying about the Casino and stay focused on the Arena.”
AND YOU HAVE FAILED AT IT!
“Stupid might believe HE WILL GET CORPORATES TO SUPPORT 18,000 SEATS”
“Russ Meyer supports the Arena.”
Has he said that? Maybe you can convince him to sign on with support.
A no, no vote will embolden the people behind this “No” campaign and that is the Operation Rescue, Focus on the Family, Heartland Miniseries, Phil Kline supporters and the whole bit. If a “no” vote wins, look for them to come out hard against abortion and other far-right ideology to be passed as law in Kansas.
The churches are passing out the “No Yard Signs” to their congregation. But that’s expected and the norm. They do that with candidates they want elected also.
I also had an old couple from the “no” campaign come to my door and asking me to fill out an advance ballot application and to vote “no”. I politely told them I always vote on election day at the polls.
A neighbor of mine had his Yes, Yes yard sign stolen. He went to go get another one yesterday and I ask him to pick me up one too.
The “no” people called me on Tuesday asking where I stand on the issue. I ask him if he is calling from Wichita (because it sounded like a full scripted outsource call center), they guy never answered my question, even through I ask him three times, if he is calling from Wichita or the surrounding area. He just ignored the question. So that tells me that the “no” campaign hired out-of-state call centers to call registered voters here.
The funny thing is that the “yes, yes” people called me later on that evening. I ask them where they are calling from. They gave the location. Corner of Kansas and Douglas street. They were very polite, non-scripted and they were supporters, unlike the “no” campaign, which hired call center people.
I know which way I’m voting. Although I could care less about a Casino. I do, however, always default to freedom. And if people want to game and spend money as they see fit, so be it. I love freedom and I want people to have the freedom to do what they want in every legal way.
Good try Joe! Tell me if I don’t vote your way I am emboldening the bad guys. That scare tactic will not work. In fact, a YES vote will only embolden the Arena crowd to waste more money.
NO-YES and a pox on both your houses. A Racino next door to Fox and not give WDDC it’s way.
I haven’t gotten any calls from either side … of course that might be because I haven’t been at home.
Ben! The emboldening the bad guys did not originate with me. The Sedgwick County Democratic Party is the one that is saying it. They also endorse a “Yes, Yes” vote and encourage all Democrats to do so.
I’m sure you get e-mail from the SG Democratic Party, right?
Joe! I am fully aware that they have endorsed it. However, they do NOT tell me how to vote. I do that for myself.
Politics makes strange bedfellows. You would suggest that I am in bed with Fox et.al. if I don’t vote YeaYeaRahRah. However, you then want me to hop in with YOU. If I vote YESYES am I then endorsing you and Wolverton? No thanks to either side.
I wish there were a really good way to vote AGAINST both sides. Closest thing is NO-YES.
And by the way - that is what will prevail next Tuesday.
We will see Ben. But I respect your decision.
We are not going to change each others mind. I guess you are voting No on the casino because you don’t like the WDDC, for whatever reason I don’t know.
Slots at the Dog Track is totally fine with me too, but a downtown casino would be better, in my opinion and it may be a selfish decision on my part. I have no ties to WDDC, but I know the WDDC has done a great deal of good for our downtown area. I don’t know what is so deserving of hate for WDDC, except that they endorsed the downtown arena, for which you hate. But they endorse anything that goes in downtown. It’s their job to promote any and all growth and development downtown. They aren’t going to say no to anything.
My selfish reasons for having a downtown casino has to do with the Peerless Tower Project. Because if a casino gets built downtown, the chances for the Peerless Tower to gather steam and to get built will increase a thousand fold.
Although I will not nor anybody else will financially benefit from the Peerless Tower, it is a long time dream of mine to have an iconic monument for Wichita and have a bona fide Visitors Information Center that will attract visitors to come and acquire information about all the area attractions that Wichita and the area have to offer.
We had a great Visitors Information Center at the Wichita Boathouse, for which I worked at for several years. But it’s closed now and we really need a great one and badly for our area. It will do wonders to area attractions as far as increase visitor numbers.
I am really relieved to hear the vote looks to fail. I grew up without casinos raised my family, and now my children are raising children in Kansas. We went our whole lives without this and I pray my children and grandchildren do not get involved in gambling. We don’t need them and they are like drinking to alcoholics. What can I do to help work to defeat this vote? Is there someone I may contact?
A.K.?
Defeat Casino’s? That fight lost. Casino’s were defeated in Kansas for a long time. We only had tribal Casino’s. Now the State Legislators have enacted “State owned” Casino’s and its law of the land in Kansas now.
We’re only voting to place a Casino here in this community or let it go to another county.
Family keeps people from harm, that’s where ethics are taught, no matter what business is created.
Will family stay out of the liquor store? Will they stay out of the mall if they can’t control their spending?
Will they not steal office supplies from their employers?
Addiction comes in a lot of varieties.
People don’t have to enter casino’s, its always a choice.
We’re choosing to keep the Casino local or let it be built 30 miles away. We’re also choosing to place a slots in the dog track or not.
Mrage is right. There is no such thing as a casino defeat. It’s already coming.
KWCH just did a report that Bob Knight’s group just bought land in Sumner county and anticipation that a Casino will come that way. Because even if the Casino passes in Sedgwick County, it doesn’t put Sumner out the running. Casino developers can still bid in Sumner regardless if Sedgwick passes it and since it’s up the the State Lottery Commission to decide, they will put up a good fight.
Bob Knight just up the anti and said his casino will be $413 million dollar project and that is for Sumner. Just to remain competitive to a Sedgwick County proposal.
You never know. If a Casino passes in Sedgwick, and still can go to Sumner. $413 million is an awful alot of money. That would mean a Sedgwick County proposal would even have to be bigger than that.
Forget $225 million or even $300 million. We are talking about going up to $500 million just from competition alone. Even more reason to vote “Yes, Yes”.
Let’s vote “yes, yes” just to drive the competition and have the private sector spend untold millions building a facility and employ more people.
Joe,
Isn’t Knight’s plan, Tribal? Out of state Tribes would need Federal okay? Do they have that?
The largest built Casino in a farm field doesn’t do much if it can’t capture people to stay there for a few days.
They have a hotel plan considered with their casino?
This is why Wichita needs a focused Casino plan so a $300 to $400 Million investment happens here. Remember the Canadians were building another hotel behind Century II and they wanted to purchase that office building on corner of Douglas and Main.
The Library and Hyatt buildings sold. Canadians paying for the Century II improvements.
It could run close to $400 Million in complete purchases.
I don’t know if its size of the casino floor that matters. 800 slots, 200 gaming tables downtown.
1600 slots, 400 gaming tables in a Sumner County mega Casino.
I don’t know specifics if more Casino floor space matters.
There has to be other amenities more than gambling to attract visitors to the Casino.
Wichita has more to do than what Sumner County offers.
What if both communities vote no?Doesn’t this in effect stop the gambling business from coming?
Sumner already voted it in I believe A.N. Keny.
Yes! Sumner County already voted it in last year. So did Harvey County up north in Newton. But in the Kansas State Law passed with expanding gaming. Harvey County was taken out of the running, but Sumner was left in.
Sorry A.N. Keny! I know you don’t like Casinos based on moral issues, but it’s a done deal. The vote coming up this Tuesday is to see if Sedgwick County will be in the running for a Casino. If it gets voted down. It defaults to Sumner.
That is why the State allowed Sumner County to get one, because the state wants a Casino in the Wichita area. And yes! Sumner is part of Wichita Metro.
Well thanks for clearing that up. So I do get to vote even though apparently I am a dying breed who says enough is enough. Who does the State legislature think they are selectively deciding who can have gambling and who cannot? Do they keep this up until each county slips them enough campaign money to get their county considered? This is horrible. Selectively make each community fight for greedy sin money. Each HAS to have it or they loose out to the other. This is a very sad time for Kansas.
Joe! You are correct about WDDC having as its job promoting one specific neighborhood of Wichita. Problem is, it does so at the expense of other neighborhoods. I asked Wolverton about the impact of his Arena on bars and restaurants OUTSIDE of downtown. He made it clear that he doesn’t care about them - except to tax them to support HIS neighborhood!
If I want a special amenity built for MY neighborhood I pay for it through ‘Specials’. Will you support me when I say that OTHER neighborhoods should pay for MY toys? After all, that is what YOU and WDDC do!
I developed a funding mechanism for the Old Town Arena based on ITS neighborhood providing support. Wolverton rejected it in no uncertain terms. He wants ME to pay for HIS neighborhood. But you can be damn sure HE would object streanuously to a tax on HIS neighborhood to support something out here.
Joe is correct - Sumner already voted yes.
Well! I’m sorry they didn’t go your way on the taxation of Old Town. I don’t know if your proposal would be any good or not, but I would certainly would have entertained the idea.
But what is done is done. There is no backing out now. I choose to vote Yea on the arena, because I believe it was the better option than renovating Britt Brown Arena. We may have a difference of opinion on that point, but I’m sticking to mine.
All the taxes we pay only very little goes to supporting any specific neighborhood. You are never going to have a 100% tax investment, reinvested back to you. Sedgwick County and the people that live here all are net tax exporters. A large portion in what we pay in property tax, sales tax, and income tax goes to pay out to the rest of the state, which are net tax importers. In my study, 6 counties in the state of Kansas are net tax exporters. The rest are importers from those 6 counties.
The growth of government and their funding needs are exceeding our job and economic growth. That is why the Casino issue is before us in the first place. The State of Kansas is already a high tax state and raising taxes will just make people upset. So now they are looking at Casino revenue to come up with funding shortfalls and maintenance backlogs for our state Universities. And it isn’t going to stop unless the state slows down it’s growth to match our economy.
The State of Kansas is already a $10+ billion dollar corporation and government is the largest employer in our state. You can’t continue to have people employed on government payrolls at a dis-apportion to the economy. Everybody cannot be employed by government, because it doesn’t really make any money. It just takes and spends it the best way it can. But everybody in the private sector is the one that supports it.
To me a casino is a plus, because it’s the private sector spending millions into the economy, not taxation.
Many must lose in order for a few to win.
Amen to you Mr. Kansas. Amenand pass the collection plate.
Joe! You have an opportunity to support my tax idea. The Arena will need additional revenue; join with me in calling for a special assessment or benefit district.
Wolverton’s attitude that businesses in other neighborhoods should be assessed to support businesses in his neighborhood is what irritated me. Especially since he does not support anything for other neighborhoods.
Wichita is made up of many neighborhoods. I am involved in several; notably South Wichita. The city and county ignores them in their focus on downtown. Their buzzword is ‘downtown is everybody’s neighborhood’. Well, if that is the case then let downtown pay its full cost and pay to support other neighborhoods.
Why do WE pay special assessments when downtown has US pay for their Arena? Gee, I’d sure like a swimming pool. Want to pay for it for me?
Did anybody just watch KSN? They did some research on the “NO” Casino crime statistic claims. All the “No” casino’s claims were all false!
Don’t believe liars.
Kansas! When you buy a DVD or go to the Movies, you are losing money and giving it to rich movies stars to make untold millions and then speak against your political ideology. What do you think about that?
Pssst! Ben!
Don’t feel like the lone ranger. What you just posted is exactly what people are saying in the first city of Kansas. Probably true across the state.
In order to save dying downtowns and support the infrastructure needed to “attract the hords of tourists”, we spend two or three times as much on dead downtowns as we do on our residential neighborhoods. Curbs, gutters, and sidewalks are free to downtown businesses, but are lacking on our residential streets where kids are walking to school in the street.
I don’t think the arena will need any additional revenue. In the contract the County made with SMG, if the arena falls short, SMG will have to pay the difference, not us. So that gives every incentive for SMG to make the downtown arena profitable.
So I’m sorry Ben! You’re not correct on your point.
http://kansas.com/news/local/story/137968.html
Correct! Any additional tax revenue.
Correction rather. I need something to eat. I’m hungry.
A downtown casino? There’s a major campaign to build the NAFTA SuperCorridor (10 lane tollway, 6 rail lines) from southern Mexico to Canada following I-35. If this happens, a better location for a casino would be right next to the highway, to bring in outside-world dollars. Plus a better place to put a “Mustang Ranch” next door. You’d have thousands of truckers every day leaving their money here. Don’t forget, without gaming and prostitution back in the cattle-drive era, there wouldn’t be a Wichita today.
I just got through talking with a friend of mine, that also received a phone call from the “no” campaign that is originating from out-of-state call centers.
Got us thinking. Oklahoma Casinos are probably paying these outsourced call centers, yet don’t have to disclose it to the people of Kansas.
Billboards, radio and tv ads have to disclose their treasurer and the campaign has to be filed with the state. But phone-banking call centers don’t.
More than meets the eye! *Transformers* :p
That will never get built MPS. But if it does, it won’t be going through Wichita.
I even submitted a question about that to Rep. Tiahrt about that. I ask him if the Super Corridor won’t come to Wichita, then make it a priority to have our Spirit Corridor done (Highway 54). 4-laned from El Paso to Wichita and possibly beyond to connect to the Super Corridor (if it happens).
Look at the Super Corridor map. Once it goes to OKC it makes a b-line to Tulsa and straight to KC.
Joe! That is AFTER we pay SGM 2.4 million per year retroactive to last May. Where is THAT money coming from? And, when you read the fine print you see some interesting ‘outs’ for SMG.
“Don’t believe liars”
Like the ones who promised parking would be built for the Arena? That there would be a $23,611,000 reserve fund? My CPA examined the promises and the most current version of the budget and she says the representations made were false.
And, many of THOSE liars pushng Yea!Rah! are the same ones pushing Yea!Yea!Rah!Rah!
It was a very good preliminary proposal Ben. They had every intention to do the best they could to stick with the figures. But it was preliminary. We didn’t have a location or design of it. The County did not deliberately lie. If you feel you been baited and switched or lied to, I’m sorry that you feel that way. I believe they made a good honest attempt. But reality tends to change the numbers sometimes.
Just like the o’ http://WWW. He said he can get that park built for $15 million. It ended up $30 million.
Yes! Some of the cost went up and they adjusted accordingly. It was not deliberate. The “No” campaign was deliberate.
Look! I’ll even give you more kindle for your fire. You know that $201 million figure? They aren’t going to make it. They’ll fall short. Unless Naming rights and Box seats fill in the gap. But it was a goal they are trying to reach. They’ll save in other ways. It will be ok.
it’s refreshing to hear Joe Williwms confess he has selfish reasons for something to be passed. At least a little honesty is there, buried within the venality.
The best reason to call for the elimination of the WDDC is that it is a socialist organization engaged in central economic planning.
Oh Wow! Word on the street! Sumner County location now in the picks. Much closer to Wichita, then probably people are thinking. Everybody thought that it would be near Wellington. I thought that too. But I had a bit of reservations at that site because Wellington just built a new high school there and a Super Wal-Mart is going up.
Word on the street that it is going just across the county line near the Wyldewood Cellars. The Turnpike exit for Mulvane.
4 miles from Derby! 8 miles from Wichita! That is something else! I never thought about that spot, but word on the street is that is where the Casino operators are seriously thinking about putting it in.
This can change the whole equation. Somebody just sent me a map.
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?714ad61007.jpg
What should have been done with luxury suites:
First, a SERIOUS market study to figure out how many can be sold. Then market the heck out of them and SELL them - similar to condos. Sell them as shells and “build to suit” with the buyer paying for whatever he wants. That way the cost of those would not have been part of the $123 million (as I recall) that we are supposed to be paying.
Now another suggestion: if you believe as Mrage does that you need 18K seats then GO FOR IT! Establish the benefit district and raise the additional revenues THAT way. Get corporate mooney like Mrage keeps hallucinating.
Sell memberships like the Zoo does. 15,000 members at $200 will pay SGM’s fee with a bit left over. Sell bricks, benches, plaques, etc like the Zoo does. Get doanations like Music Theater does - many millions of dollars. notice the ‘patrons’ have a nice room where they can rub elbows and drink wine and hors doerves. Fine - they subsidize MTW and Century II for the rest of us.
If I saw people making such a financial comittment to your Arena then maybe I would have more faith in it. However, such support is non-existent.
The folks in Tulsa are repeating the story that the Super Corridor will follow I-35 up to Kansas City.
Their map shows the route following I-35.
http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A17346
I think if the plan were now to have it go through Tulsa, the people there would have heard about it.
A NASCO (North American SuperCorridor Coalition) brochure’s map shows “Wichita” on the route.
http://www.inboundlogistics.com/digital/nasco_digital06.pdf
So it looks like Wichita is going to be on the route.
Aha, Joe, if they’re going to build right off the I-35, in Sumner County, that’s a perfect location when they put the SC in. Looks like somebody’s thinking.
Joe Williams,
I don’t buy DVD’s or CD’s.
I seldom watch TV or go to a movie.
I’m focused on other activities.
I’m not for sure MPS. Both maps you showed me on both links still shows it bypassing Wichita. I did a search on your PDF for Wichita and came up empty.
I am trying to get my mind around a few things on the Casino issue. It appears the anti-crowd thinks that if Casinos come to Wichita it will have a negative impact on our community and take money away from other businesses. Also, I see Russ Meyer saying it will really hurt the community and is a step backward.
To the point about the Casino coming to Wichita having a negative impact-Let’s assume it will have a negative impact-will the impact be less severe if it is located at the Mulvane I-35 exit? That means people will have to drive about 15-20 minutes south from downtown Wichita. Much closer for Spirit, Boeing, and McConnell employees. I guess if you don’t want to look at the Casino in downtown Wichita that is fine, but lets not pretend people won’t be going to the Casino (they already are driving to Oklahoma). If this fails Sedgwick County gets all the problems and none of the money. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The fact the Casino may take away money from other business, such as Warren Theaters is an interesting take. I wonder, has Bill Warren ever taken any business away from anyone else? I thought we were in a free market economy and the market determined what businesses survived. Isn’t this what conservatives spout all the time? I guess thats OK until you don’t like the business. Forget about the whole freedom issue-the good conservatives will decide for all us simple minded folks.
Russ Meyer fears the impact it will have on the community when people lose money in the Casinos and the bosses keep all the money. That is interesting. Who gets the money when Cessna lays off people. I suppose Meyer or any of the other CEOs at Raytheon or Boeing or Spirit don’t make any profit when the company downsizes. Look, everyone in Wichita knows that the Aircraft industry runs in cycles and all aircraft workers realize there is a risk to working in aircraft. It does not mean that it is not painful when a layoff occurs-even if you know it is coming. Every adult who walks into a Casino knows the risk and it is painful when they lose. Why is it OK for the our big aircraft companies to inflict pain with layoffs, but yet it is not OK for Casino to do the same when an adult makes a wager. Both businesses make money off others losses, it just that Meyer and his CEO buddies are seen as more legit. I am not saying Meyer or any other CEO in Wichita is a bad person, but neither are the Casino owners. Phil Ruffin has just as much of right to make a living as Russ Meyer as long as they are honest with the people they employee and the customers they serve. But looking down your nose at another business is a little hypocritical.
Vote no and watch the Sumner County Commission count the money and watch the City of Wichita and Sedgwick County handle the fallout with no resources.
Now is that good business? What do you think Russ?
PS Why won’t the no crowd reveal the names of the people giving to the anti-casino movement? I bet you anything it is competing casinos in Oklahoma funding the campaign. It just like the legislators who take money from Casino operators. Hypocrites-it is immoral,but then is it OK to take their money when it further your cause. Come on-give it up-who is really behind this vote no campaign?
You have to remember about Russ and other aircraft Corporate guys is that they are thinking about their business much more than the community.
Why did Russ move single-engine production out of Wichita. Why is their new light sport aircraft going to be built overseas? Why did Russ close down the Welfare-to-work program on 21st for those Cessna operations once the tax write-off ended?
Cessna and Beechcraft sell an awful a lot of jets to Casino owners and high rolling investors of Las Vegas and other out-of-state Indian casino operators. None, which want to have a Casino built in Wichita, because they will lose some competition. Las Vegas hosted Business Jet conventions pretty much every year and Cessna plays a huge role in selling aircraft to the local movers and shakers there.
Russ is an ok guy and he may care about the community like most of us do, but he is getting something out of it for Cessna than he fails to admit. He could have gotten threaten by some jet order cancellation if he doesn’t oppose it or something else. All I know is that I have heard word from people at Cessna and they tell me that the head haunchos of Cessna are taking an awful a lot of trips to Las Vegas recently.
Not wanting to speak for Russ but I think part of the concern is DOWNTOWN where it becomes just too easy to get ’sucked in’ at lunchtime etc. Also, for me, it is my view that the land use is not compatable with other things downtown. That is why a ‘campus’ site at 21st/I-135 was interesting to me.
Looking at the vote I have concluded NO-YES is the best option. A de facto casino at the dog track. As Ruffin points out in his new ad there is not the siting uncertainty with that option.
Then, an idea … building on a successful ‘racino’ might we be able to get new enabling legislation to expand it? Remember, a casino is 87% slots anyway so at that point it would not be all that big a step.
With NO-YES Ruffin will be free to build his hotel, lounges, convention facilities, restaurants, etc etc etc. While the slots won’t draw me there (except just to see it once like I did Gander Mountain) the rest just might. His track is just as close to me in driving time as any downtown location.
“PS Why won’t the no crowd reveal the names of the people giving to the anti-casino movement? ”
The ‘moms’ group did. And I agree with you - they should. In fact, if I were advising them I would strongly urge them to do so.
“Why did Russ close down the Welfare-to-work program on 21st for those Cessna operations once the tax write-off ended?”
I think it is still there Joe; just in a different building.
The stock market is the worlds biggest casino.
I had understood that Cessna closed the “Welfare-to-work” program back after 9/11 during the big layoff’s but it ws also my understanding that it was opened again recently to handle the need for more people.
Where do you get this info from Joe?
Ben,
Your hallucinating about Ruffin racino becoming a Casino. He wouldn’t want a Casino out there. He’ll accept a bar with slots and the dog track in that location.
There is no hotel and he hasn’t planned on building one.
Topeka is such a easy place to change gambling legislation.
Plus driving from Maize road to downtown on Kellogg would be faster from there than going to the Coliseum.
Kellogg now is the better thought since so much construction has happened, as a business and travel transportation corridor. Spending Millions on the airport terminal eventually, it should be a straight shot from there to downtown “destinations”.
The Arena, best hotel Hyatt, Casino and Century II. Waterwalk, new baseball at L-D. The Ice Rink and Oldtown.
What’s out in Park City? Ruffin would put his Casino downtown.
Ruffin has already indicated he will build those things at his track with a NO-YES. And I didn’t hallucinate his new ads for just the YES on the track. He is already hedging his bets.
As for the driving time, perhaps it has escaped you but I have to get off Kellogg and navigate downtown for those locations. Trust me on this Mrage; I know every inch of Kellogg from Goddard to Webb Road like the back of my hand.
FYI, it takes 18 min to get from Kellogg and Maize to downtown and 28 min to get to the Dog Track.
That 18 min is just to get to downtown, not including searching for a parking spot. 28 min should include the time to drive in and park.
What makes more since?
Id like to see Ruffin build a massive casino out at the track and include Wild West World as part of the overall complex.
1400 slots100 table gamesdog racingbetting room500+ room hoteltheme parkspafine dinningheck, maybe even an arena…
Now that could be a destination casino…
Maybe even a golf course. Right now the only thing he couldn’t do (with a NO-YES) is the 13% of casino gaming that is not slots.
And Mrage - that is NOT hallucination. All those corporates you keep talking about ARE hallucinations.
I hear that the largest advertising agency is Wichita is volunteering its services for the No campaign. I wonder what their pay off will be? Huge contracts later? I wonder. I have yet to receive my Vote Yes sign that I requested from the Vote Yes website. It has been a week. I also volunteered to deliver Vote yes signs and haven’t heard a peep from them. I think it is funny that Wichita seems to be sleeping on this issue. I saw on the news tonight on channel 3 that the statistics on the bill boards was wrong and misleading. The statistics channel 3 gathered showed no negative affect of a casino. I believe our downtown needs the extra business that a casino would bring. It is a ghost town right now. Lots of traffic=lots of money. And not everyone is going to spend all of their money at the casino. I go to Vegas every year for a conference and I eat at the restaurants and see the shows and spend a fortune and enjoy the architecture of the many buildings. I don’t gamble but I resent someone telling me I can’t. I am an adult. I don’t appriciate being told what I can and can’t do. I want to have the right to my own decission. This is America right? Aren’t we free to take it or leave it? A lot of cry babies shouldn’t spoil it for the other 49% of us who want to have an attraction down town besides vacant buildings and the occasional hobo. If I have $100 to spend on entertainment every week, do you really think I am going to gamble it all away? Get real! Give me some credit. I will still shop and eat at the same shops I always do. Although I would like to check out the fancy restaurants that the casino would have were it to come. Your statistics are all wrong. Channel 3 proved it tonight. Traffic = business. It is as simple as that. Bring more people to town-they will spend their money. We really need to do something with our poor little down town. It is sad and getting sadder. The down town condos that people were looking forward to are now only for the rich. Who wants to spend a couple hundred grand for 900 square feet? We need to attract the young professionals and the “young” professionals can’t afford those condos and they wouldn’t want to move to a deserted downtown. I have traveled the world and I can tell you that a casino in our town is a win win. It would be like a “shot in the arm” for our struggling down town. We would instantly get more flights into Wichita every day-construction jobs, engineers, architects, you name it. We would get the large conventions at the hotel and they would stay the weekend and spend money on shows and restaurants. If there was a good restaurant or show “OUTSIDE” of the casino-THEN you would get their business. It is as if you all want to FORCE us to eat at your restaurants and shop at your shops and you seem to have the power to keep out the competition. A little competition is good. I love variety. Variety is good. Variety in restaurants and shopping is a good thing. Don’t keep out the competition, please-for the sake of down town development. This has the potential to make our city vibrant and alive again as it once was. A 500 room hotel would be great for our city. Tourists are a good thing for our shops and restaurants. (Just have something someone wants and it shouldn’t be a problem!) Variety is a good thing. That is what makes Walmart so popular. You can get anything there at a good price. If you put a good restaurant next to a not-so-good restaurant and the not-so-good restaurant fails, that is what has made America America. It is a monopoly when you tell someone they can’t do something. That is what the deep pockets behind the no campaign are doing. Come December you will feel pretty foolish when you see that it is the competition (other casinos wanting to keep their customers-US) behind all of those ads. We wont have the casino. Sumner County will and our downtown will just keep getting worse and worse. And Sumner County will never be a “Destination City” as we could be. We could be as popular as Kansas City with their beautiful Plaza! I hear the Hutchinson Mall is only 30% occupied. Is that what we want in our own downtown? It is almost there. Don’t believe those statistics that paint the picture of doom and gloom. Think of our dusty little Macy’s building and remember the beautiful Christmas displays in the shop windows down town that our parents talked about. We can have that again. Don’t play “Big Brother”. Please! Let the individual decide if he or she wants to gamble. Don’t make that decission for them. Remember, this is America, the home of the FREE, where we should be free to gamble if we so choose. Don’t take that right away from us because in doing so-you destroy any hope we had of ever rebulding down town Wichita in our lifetime.
Hey Sick,
Vegas is a whole different ball game than Wichita.
You have million dollar contract acts there and hundreds of casinos. There are even slots in the bathrooms. They have world class dealers, games and other things. Dozens of Hotels right on the strip.
Wichita would have 1 casino, somewhere in the bottom tier as far as Casinos goes, third rate shows and 1 restaurant with maybe a snack bar or two thrown in there.
It’s not the same as Vegas nor will it ever be.
What’s it is about is someone’s pipe dream that it will boost the economy somehow.
If that were true, economists would have put it in the economic handbook long ago.
Economists know that the majority of the profit go to the Casino owners and very little gets turned back into the economy.
The only reason Vegas skews the formula is because they have hundreds of casinos.
Let’s say the Wichita Casino gets built and makes 800K the first year for Kansas/Sedgwick County. Not that impressive. And I imagine the owners won’t be impressed either as that’s a tad low on the profit side for their share.
If that happened in Vegas, they would close the doors very quickly.
The difference is if Vegas has 100 2 million profit sharing casinos contributing to the economy, then we are talking big money.
If we are talking 1 casino in Wichita, then we are talking peanuts.
Sick…
Noone is taking away your “right to gamble”. By all means, go to Kansas City or Topeka and gamble your little life away.
It is obvious that you don’t care about anyone else, but so you know, your downtown arena would more than likely spell the demise of the 24 hour homeless facility, and would create more “hobos” as you refer to them!
Even the experts say that this casino will not make Wichita the “destination city” that you dream about. Talk about lies.. all these yes promises make no sense. It will be BAD for business, and BAD for Wichita!
Sick…
Noone is taking away your “right to gamble”. By all means, go to Kansas City or Topeka and gamble your little life away.
It is obvious that you don’t care about anyone else, but so you know, your downtown arena would more than likely spell the demise of the 24 hour homeless facility, and would create more “hobos” as you refer to them!
Even the experts say that this casino will not make Wichita the “destination city” that you dream about. Talk about lies.. all these yes promises make no sense. It will be BAD for business, and BAD for Wichita!
The “No” Campaign lied!
KSN just did a big slam to the “No” campaign.
http://www.ksn.com/news/local/8885067.html
And about Russ Meyers. You Democrats know that he is a Republican right?
KSN made a hypothetical and didn’t prove it by actual crime statistic numbers.
“But those for casinos counter if that figure is adjusted to also reflect the 33 million visitors and non resident worker population; the crime rate in Atlantic City is nearly 50 percent lower today than it was when before casinos opened there.”
Adjusted eh? Nice detective work (cough.)
Or how about this?
“This is a much quoted statistic among casino opponents, who point out child abuse cases went from 350 to 500. Yet social workers and the Deadwood police chief say they’ve never heard it.”
WTH, Deadwood? How close is that to Atlanta? Why didn’t they use Atlanta statistics?
The population of Deadwood South Dakota in 2004 was approximately 1,318 people.
I mean what wool is KSN trying to pull over whose eyes?
A population of 1,318 and they talk about child abuse statistics on the rise?
So who is lying now Joe?
Hawker Beechcraft CEO Jim Schuster says “NO”…
http://www.kake.com/news/headlines/8863887.html
You know if people want to throw their money away at a chance of winning something, they can stop by my house throw whatever they want to in cash into a locked underground safe I have.
Then after I accumulated enough profit, 70-1 for me, I’ll buy a large screen Digital TV to give away to some unlucky fool.
Sounds greedy doesn’t it?
70 percent is the profit that the Casinos would get.
Reality…sounds greedy doesn’t it?
Atlanta? What are you talking about?
You linked to an article Joe that tried to disprove statistics. Atlanta was the first city mentioned.