As arrests multiply in the cases of the failed car bomb attacks in London and Glasgow, the British investigation looks more and more impressive. Authorities seem to have spent the two years since the transit bombings sharpening their intelligence gathering on extremist elements. They also got lucky, though, because the would-be bombers made so many mistakes. It’s hardly encouraging news that those in custody include at least three physicians — individuals who don’t fit the terrorist profile of a disaffected, disenfranchised youth. Why would such educated professionals be drawn to such activities?
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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54 Comments
because it is not the same
wag the dog
The ‘terrorist profile’?
How can there be a terrorist profile? The government has not yet told us who we are fighting in our ‘war on terror.” If there is no definition of who the terrorists are, how can there be a ‘terrorist profile’?
This is what many refuse to admit. We weren’t attacked because of something we (Bush) did. We were attacked because of who we are. We are not radical muslims. We are the infidels, the enemy. The ‘we’ I refer to is anyone who is not a muslim.
That is why the war we are fighting is so different than any war before it. We have an undeclared enemy who puts no value on life, theirs or anyone elses.
This is why the push to give the enemy combatants legal status and rights under our constitution is so ridiculous. They have no Geneva Convention rights either – because they have never sworn themselves as our enemy nor do they wear uniforms so they can easily be identified. These prominent professionals are just another look at their hated for all others.
When the liberals among us actually face these facts then we might be able to protect ourselves. This is what scares those on the right to death.
I pledge allegience to the bushfor whose party he runs
and to the republicthat is no more
one nationunder bush
with liberty and justice for some
the only thing that scares me is you repukes who swallowed the koolaid and the fact that bushy boy has 560 days left to further screw up the world
That’s an easy one Rhonda. Because the proper terrorist profile is a Muslim extremist; as much as liberals are afraid to say it. It is a Muslim extremism, not poverty, not lack of opportunity, that cultivates terrorists.
These suspects seem to fit that profile pretty well. Wake up!
“individuals who don’t fit the terrorist profile of a disaffected, disenfranchised youth.”
Some of the 9/11 bombers were well educated. From the pictures I have seen of the recent guys, they fit the profile very well.
I want the Government to come out and say it. I want the Republicans to come out and say it. I want them to stand on the public podium and say ‘we are in a war against terrorists. The terrorists are radical Muslims. Radical Muslims are people who ___(fill in the blank).
Until our leaders have enough balls to do this, the whole ‘war on terror’ is just a sham. Any attempt to win a war, without declaring who the enemy is is pointless. Without knowing and declaring who the enemy is it is impossible to defeat them. Our military leaders are much better at military strategy than I, so it is safe to assume they know this, too.
ksgrm, based on what you said, those who view us as the enemy are Muslims. (”We are not radical muslims. We are the infidels, the enemy. The ‘we’ I refer to is anyone who is not a muslim.”)So if you think Muslims view us as the enemy, are the Muslims whom we are fighting against?
Brian: I agree with you. The “War on Terrorism” would more accurately be the “War on Islamic Radical Terrorism”.
But it is not politically correct to say so.
Are our Conservative leaders so PC they would jeopardize our safety by not publicly announcing the enemy and forming a public plan and agenda to defeat them
they are not pc
they do not know what to say because they have brought this all on themselves
This take of the “poor disenfrachised” terrorists has always been a Liberal canard. It justified their continued support for the radical Islamofascists around the world.
And the Doctor thing…think of Dr. Zarqwahi here folks. The wonderful Nationalized Health of Britain has caused over 50% or Brit docs to leave the country…why, you know why…money. They dont get paid.
So guess who fills in this void…166,000 of the 250.000 doctors in Brit are now foreigners. So this is what you get.
Then you continue to have the “head in the sand” thinking by the new PM in Britain. He just mandated that the Terrorists :
1. Not be called “Terrorists” and2. Not to tell people they are Muslim.
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/12172/Brown:-Don
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=26110_Gordon_Brown-_Dont_Say_Terrorists_Are_Muslims#comments
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YmE3MWJmMWZkYzQ5MWMzYmMwMDcyMWQwYTljYTY4ZTE=
Now that should go a long way in finding who was all involved. Plus it will make the usual EU Leftist feel better when they are blown up since they wont know who did it.
we know who was involved
watch Wag the Dog
I was numb for weeks, angry, scared. Just like everyone else. But I honestly didn’t feel any less safe against Al Queda or other terrorist groups by Christmas 2001. I found duct tape and plastic sheeting, color coded threat levels and Homeland Security to be window dressing with no substance. I will never forget, but how I go about my daily life has not been impacted tremendously by an outrageous act of violence and terror from “enemies abroad.”
However, I do feel radically changed by the egregious behavior of the U.S. government. The flagrant constitutional violations of the executive branch. The acquiescence of the legislative branch. The anticipated complicity of the judicial branch. Someone else at DU stated it well when s/he said s/he was tired of living in a major moment of history. That’s it exactly. The shock of 9/11 pales to me by comparison to the grinding and relentless madness of the last five and a half years.
Our world will never be the same. Less because of 19 hijackers than an unknown number of men and women in Washington who position themselves beyond accountability to the U.S. Constitution and their constituents. I fear this will not end well.
“Without knowing and declaring who the enemy is it is impossible to defeat them.”
Just what would we put on the front of the envelope to mail the declaration of war? Third cave from the left? The shithole with the rocks in the front yard?
Leave-
You need to remember this has been going on for a long time now. Remember Al Gore’s “no controlling authority”? Rmember Bill CLinton’s lying to the grand jury. It doesn;t matter what about, he lied. I say that not as a deflection, but as a note that these sobs that have taken the reins of power, Republican in name only and democrats in name only, laugh at the rest of us while they flagrantly defy the law and the peoples will. They play us like the fools we are, as we scrap among ourselfs, and hate each other for someone elses sins. It is time to take back the reins of power. I have already only semiseriously (lousy word) offered someone of contrasting views to form a new party. It is time for people to have reasonable discourse, and take back the reins of power that these overlords, Bush, Cheney, Reid, Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, etc. have usurped
“Someone else at DU stated it well…”
Dear DU:Please tell me how to think.Thank you,blogger from Wichiduh
oh enema…
no one told me how to speak, I jsut like something I read
but you have to have your talking points memo
I left that in on purpose to cause I knew you would jump on it and show your ass once again
ya all have loads of fun orgasming over your bushy and rove and cheney. I am off to party on my boat for 2 days.
catch ya all thursday
“Don’t say Muslims are terrorist”-One thing about the British. They know terrorism, they lived with it for years and years.
Let’s see, was the IRA a terrorist group? YES
Was the IRA Muslim?NO
The British are smart enough to know that terrorism can come from different people, no matter what their religion or ideology.
We will never have peace until the Republicans realize that these radical Muslims don’t hate us for our freedoms or because we are infidels, they fight us because of our policies . Invading Iraq didn’t make things better, it created more hatred and more terrorist.An “IRAQ” junior doctor and a brilliant neurologist working for the NHS are among the suspects being quizzed over the series of bomb attacks across Britain, it emerged today.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=465481&in_page_id=1770&ct=5
kscitydude-
This ex-radical apparently disagrees with your statement that”radical Muslims don’t hate us for our freedoms or because we are infidels, they fight us because of our policies .
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=465570&in_page_id=1770
The “terrorist profile” of terrorists as “disaffected, disenfranchised youth” has always been false. Part of the equally flawed “poverty breeds terrorism” meme. Nope. Fanaticism breeds terrorism. “Disaffected, disenfranchised youth” don’t build car bombs, they riot. Ask the French.
For a car bomb to be a car bomb it really needs to have a bomb. The first thing these yuppie terrorist wannabees did wrong was try to ruin a perfectly good Mercedes.
“Just what would we put on the front of the envelope to mail the declaration of war? Third cave from the left? The shithole with the rocks in the front yard?Posted by: fleettwood | July 03, 2007 at 03:27 PM ”
Well fleetwood, your questions would be “Where” to send a declaration of war. You have to know a name before you can find the address.
I though that libs always said that all people are the same and want the same things. I thought that a good education, a full belly and a good job would put an end to crime and terrorism and such? I thought that third worlders would be nice to us if we were nice to them? Could liberals have been wrong, is diversity not really a strength? Color me confused, again!
sarge,Too soon to tell, I don’t think we have implemented those policies yet
Does anyone know if we fighting All terrorism or just that of radical Muslims?
I just got a letter from Tiahrt today. He said that we have to root out an ideology and fight them. First off, nobody “roots” out an ideology and it’s impossible to fight an idea with guns. Pro-war neo-cons are nothing more than monkeys throwing poo at their own reflection.
“Well fleetwood, your questions would be “Where” to send a declaration of war. You have to know a name before you can find the address.”
Aaah, thank you, brian. That is really the point. We are fighting something we have never had to fight before. There are no uniforms, no battle fields, no double envelopment strategies like we have had before. Maybe it’s a little like the Revolutionary War. The British complained that the Colonists wouldn’t come out and fight like they were used to.Hiding behind trees and all.You people are not helping us to win this. You need to get on board.
All muslims in the west will have to be deported or killed, there will be no other options.
Wag the Dog….my thoughts exactly. Bush is evil and if anyone is interested in his agenda read about PNAC…a very scary group full of Bush cronies.
“Bush is evil…”
becky- Please stop with the genius observations. Instead, just post “I Hate Bush” and get it over with. Of course, throw in, “I’m very scared for our Democracy” every once in a while.
This is just an illustration that profiling is, and always has been an attempt to foretell the future. It’s right in there with reading goat entrails, flipping quarters, astrology, stock market analysis and Voodoo. To be sure, it would be nice to be able to look at someone and know what’s in his head. Lord knows we’ve tried and tried! We tried it with phrenology, we tried it with race, we tried it with gender, we tried it with politics, we tried it with religion, and none of it has worked any better than flipping quarters. We still don’t know what even the next few minutes will bring. No doubt as we speak, somebody’s out there writing a book or planning a seminar on the newest way to know what someone will do next. And it will be just as accurate as all the other kinds of fortune telling. Something about fools and their money…?
“…that profiling is, and always has been an attempt to foretell the future.”
I think we have a BINGO! That is all it is. Unless and until we have people who are not “brown skinned” and/or arabic, profiling is needed. Sure, it will suck for the right thinking Arabic people who wish us no harm, but I think they know that, will have their papers in order and understand that the bombings are being done by people who look like they do.I’m a 6′5″ proud Black man, and I get searched in airports. So what.This is no time to worry about “feelings”. Until a bunch of Honkeys start to bomb stuff, we have to go with what we know. It’s worked for Israel for a very long time. (cue ed)
“You people are not helping us to win this. You need to get on board.Posted by: fleettwood | July 03, 2007 at 07:24 PM”
mmmmkayyyJust what would we be getting on board? My point thus far has been there is no clear-cut objective to the so-called ‘war on terror’.
If someone would present, oh I don’t know, maybe a PLAN, I would love to consider whether it was worth my getting on board. Maybe a measurable objective would not be too much to ask, so folks could tell if we were winning the war, or if we needed to work harder, or if we were barely holding our ground.
“Maybe it’s a little like the Revolutionary War. The British complained that the Colonists wouldn’t come out and fight like they were used to.Hiding behind trees and all.”
I am so glad you made that analogy fleetwood. I have often thought that our ‘war on terror’ is very analogous to the US Revolutionary war. You see the Colonial forces were outnumbered and overpowered by the much stronger British army. They could not have won using tactics that were conventional for the times. So the Colonists fought how they could – much of their tactics would be called terrorist or guerilla warfare today.
When an obviously weaker force is faced with one that has vastly superior capabilities, the weaker opponent, if they want to win, will do what they can to do that. Those that oppose the US forces in Iraq are doing that now with IEDs, snipers, suicide bombers, etc. They know they cannot compete against our military in any other way. In Iraq, they do what they can.
They will also try to change the minds of the people in their opposing countries by fear. There is no possible way that any government can prevent terrorist attacks on their soil. They may be able to track and stop a group from getting a nuclear missile, for example, but they cannot stop a few sympathizers from making a homemade bomb and setting it off in a crowded area. The terrorists know that sort of thing cannot be stopped. They also know the opposing governments (e.g. US, British, etc) are trying to make their people feel safe and feel like their governments will stop all terrorist attacks on their soil. Therefore it creates an easy opportunity for a ‘terrorist’ group to undermine their opposing government, by pulling off some sort of attack.
“Just what would we be getting on board?”
I have a feeling that you were never on board. You use the “war on terror” in parenthesise. The objective is to fight them until Hell freezes over, then fight them on the ice (I repeat myself, I read it in a book about the Civil War and I like the quote).So, your request for information is denied. I have a feeling you would have protested us getting into WW2. After all, we could have talked to the Japs for a little longer. Maybe should have gone to the League of Nations.
Am I excusing the behavior of ‘terrorists’? NoAm I saying our government is causing terrorism? Not really
Am I saying we are fighting the ‘war on terror’ wrong, if we are fighting to win? Yes
Easier to dismiss than debate fleetwood?
If you truely believe in it, back it up. Support your case.
“Therefore it creates an easy opportunity for a ‘terrorist’ group to undermine their opposing government,…”
First off, I question why you keep doing the “terrorist” in quotes, thing. Are you like John Edwards and don’t believe this is a War on Terror?Second– and more important. If the people get tired of war, in my case, every thing goes back to the Civil War, the war is over. Period. It doesn’t matter it you can win it (eventually) or not. If the people have had enough, politically. you are done. The terrorists (no quotes) know this. Lincoln and Jefferson Davis knew this. When the People give up, the War is done. I hope we don’t give up. Half of our Congress wants to.
“Am I saying our government is causing terrorism? Not really”
That sounds like a “kind of”.
As in, it’s our fault, kind of.Kumbaya.
So do you prefer this be another Vietnam? We just keep fighting, no clear goal, just keep fighting because we would be cowards to quit? We just keep fighting, with no way to tell if we are winning because we have no objective to accomplish. We keep fighting because to stop would be to allow ‘them’ to win, even though we cannot really win ourselves since we have no way to know when we have won?
One needs to be very clear about the terminology one uses for discussions like this. What does “winning” in Iraq entail? Does it mean the removal of all terrorists in Iraq? Sorry..won’t happen. To do that, you’d have to remove terrorists globally. Can we get rid of terrorists globally? Not likely. First, you cannot identify everyone who is a would be terrorist. Second, so long as there are conditions that drive people to consider terrorism a viable option, then every generation will grow its own “new” terrorists.
There were definable goals in the Civil War, WWI, and WWII, for example – restoration of the Union, defeat of the Central Powers, and defeat of Nazi Germany. All situations involved governments with field armies engaging in a conventional way. Clearly this is not true in Iraq.
General Giap of N. Vietnam realized that the way to defeat the colonialists (including the United States) was to make us use up our strength while they held on. The North Vietnamese never won a major battle against the US, but there wasn’t any way we could sustain that level of force and monetary expenditure with no goal except “body count”.
There is a big difference between strength and power. Strength is depleted when it’s used. Power, on the other hand, is magnified when it is used properly. RE Lee was a good field commander, but he was “given” nearly superhuman power. This intimidated Northern generals and made his army seem invincible. Lee won as much on the perceptions of his abilities as he did on his actual performance. When the US learns to use its power rather than its strength it will have learned a very great lesson.
“Lee won as much on the perceptions of his abilities as he did on his actual performance.”
I don’t have anything to add to this except, when U.S. Grant took over (he had never fought against Lee) his underlings tried to tell him what a genius Lee was.Grant got angry and said (something like) “You people talk like Lee is going to a back flip and land in our rear”!
“Lee won as much on the perceptions of his abilities as he did on his actual performance.”
I won’t argue this, at this time.Much of it is true. i.e. Gen. “Fighting Joe” Hooker at Chancelorsville. He lost his nerve. He said so. Lee (and Stonewall) caused it.
Hey folks,Fleetie’s a 6′5″ proud black man who believes in racial profiling? Yeah, and my mama was Queen of Bulgaria!
“Fleetie’s a 6′5″ proud black man who believes in racial profiling?”
If 99% of the terrorists had the look and the other things that follow, wouldn’t it make sense to pay a little more attention to them? Is that profiling or being smart? I don’t think the PC police have any business in preventing attacks.
I’m not really 6′5″ or Black, but that is what I tell the survey people who call me on the phone.
I grew up in mainland Britain. For the majority of my life the IRA regularly bombed innocent civilians. Every Christmas there was the IRA bombing campaign. Always targeting shoppers. Parents with their young children caught up in the excitement of Christmas. Every Christmas there would be children blown across the shopping malls. Gotta love those Irish catholics!!! Against abortion but no problems blowing innocent children to pieces. According to “current” thinking, I should have grown up thinking every Irish person or every catholic was a terrorist. I have certainly seen more carnage in my life from the IRA. But I was lucky enough to be born with a brain and the ability to think for myself and not believe everything a crooked politician tells me. As a result I have travelled the world often and met many wonderful people from many cultures and walks of life. I have met an equal number of complete morons.
War on terror, war on Islam… call it what you want…. but the rest of the world actually know it is really a war about OIL! Bet Bush is glad the oil wells aren’t in China!!!
Jemima, it is always nice to hear a viewpoint from a perspective outside our own, thanks for your post.Enjoy your future travels
Oops, here we go with the “OIL” crap shoot – next it will be the BUSHITLER meme from either the DU ,the Nutroot or the Babs complex.
NO…if we wanted the freaking oil we would BUY if for gods sake.
It would be cheaper….
We could have bought both all the oil and all the donkeys in Iraq for the 500 Billion spent.
Fleetie,”I’m not really 6′5″ or Black, but that is what I tell the survey people who call me on the phone.”
So you admit to being an inveterate liar? That’s been pretty well established for some time now, but I’m just a bit surprised to hear it from you! Now why should any of us to buy into any future line of bullshit you try to peddle?
mrbill,
Why not oil? It is THE resource of the moment. If what is written in the PNAC is what the people who wrote it and signed onto it believe, their goal is global. Global domination. Global rule. King(s) of the world.
Oil certainly appears to be the best place to start, and an exceptional reason why the current administration is against any talk of creating alternate energies or admitting that use and production of oil is causing weather problems.
It’s a delightfully fun jigsaw puzzle to put together. You should try it sometime.
WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
If you were born in the middle east. During the 40’s and 50’s, the Royal family of your country was overthrown during a CIA plot because they wanted a bigger share of the cut from the oil industry. At the time all oil interests were owned by the United States and Great Britian. Low and behold they give up any of their margin, and the politicians sure as hell weren’t going to let higher prices be passed on to the voters.
Your people are living in their land, and out of the blue the rest of the world says it no longer belongs to you, and the Jews are plopped right down in your back yard.
Puppet leaders are installed to lead your country who are working for the West, NOT FOR YOU! They allow your culture, which is thousands of years old to be dilluted, so it could disolve until completely forgotten.
A ruthless dictator is propped up, given or sold weapons of mass destruction to use against his enemies, because they are also enemies of the West. Maybe a few of your family members are vaporized.
One country is allowed to drill into anothers oil reserves because it benefits the West, then that country get’s the shit kicked out of it for doing something about it. Enemy or not, the US sure knows how to confuse these people. (Kuwait 1990)
We created the problems in the middle east. If you were born there, instead of here, you may be blowing up our troops every chance you had. I’ve served in uniform, and been under fire for this country. I served my fellow warrior, not the politicians. That was always my attitude.
We need to pull out of the middle east. We must swallow the increase in the cost of energy, because it will be balanced out by a severe reduction in military expences. We have technology, plug in hybrids that would average 350 mpg for short commutes to and from work, but yet that have an engine that would allow traveling long distances without recharge. We just can’t get any of it off of the ground due to corporate greed. WOW, that corporate greed is what got us into this mess to begin with. WOW!~ we are so screwed!
We have the chance to change things every election year, to overthrow the government, and we don’t! The Bill of Rights would be voted out if it were on a ballot, because Americans are worthless pigs who would rather lose the principles our nation was founded on than be put out a bit.
If the American people had to choose between remote controls for our TV, or solving the middle east problem, they wouldn’t give up their remote controls, because they are worthless pieces of shit for the most part!
So we are a nation of people who no longer deserve liberty, does that mean liberty should be done away with? NO, our forefathers thought not! Even if 10% understand it, it is our responsibility to demand it. Even if it means burning, maiming and destroying the other 90%!!#@$%
Long live the milita!@#$%