Let’s see: 69 percent of Iraqis say that U.S. troop presence in Iraq is worsening security. And Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Saturday that American troops can leave “any time they want” (then backed off Monday, saying that he hoped that Iraqi security forces would get enough training by year end).
Meanwhile, GOP defense and foreign policy lions Sens. John Warner and Richard Lugar want a new congressional resolution on the war, because the mission has changed since 2002.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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SHELBY TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) – A teen who got his parents’ permission to join the Army at 17 has been killed in the blast of an improvised explosive device in Baghdad.
Eighteen-year-old Private First Class Christopher Kube was from Macomb County’s Shelby Township, about 15 miles north of Detroit.
The Pentagon says he died Saturday.
Kube was part of a unit from Fort Carson, Colorado.
He was 1 of 2 Michigan soldiers reported killed in Iraq last week.
On Friday, 29-year-old Army Sergeant Allen Greka of Alpena, died from injuries he sustained from a land mine while on patrol.
His unit was from Fort Benning, Georgia.
Copyright 2007 The Associated Press.
Why are we in Iraq?
Operation Iraqi Liberation or OIL. That’s what we anti-war folks said years ago and the media ignored. That’s what we’re still saying yet the media is slowing inching towards that fact.
If this was a serious war about liberation then our government wouldn’t take kindly to war profiteering. Selling goods to the military for a profit in WW2 was considered treason, but in a war for profit it’s considered business as usual.
When a President lies to get us into a war and corporations rob taxpayers while soldiers die the media should be demanding impeachment and trials. Instead the media continues to drag it’s feet and the Wichita Eagle is as much to blame for our problems as Cheney and Halliburton.
The Iraqis are not done fighting each other. Add into that mix a STRONGER al-qaeda. Violence begets violence. It is a choice, continue to sacrifice Americans in an Iraqi civil war and al-qaeda turkey shoot or pull out and let the Iraqis manage their own country.
Sigh…Doug, what was the lie the president told to get us into the war?
If you say “WMDs”, then you gotta be able to show that he knew they weren’t there when everyone else thought they were. Otherwise you are lying.
Go ahead Phillip, beat the drum to get out of Iraq NOW, leaving the government unstable and unable to defend itself. Allow the sworn enemies of the US have control of the largest oil fields in the world and a base for terrorist operations world wide. Myopic.
Why are we still in iraq?
Uh, so the decider can run out the clock? He thinks he can avoid political responsibility for the mess by leaving the mess to the NEXT president.
Just what you would expect from little lord pissy pants.
Sorry about the double post — this belongs here:
Bush ‘Strongly Opposes’ Troop Pay, Benefit Initiatives
http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,142117,00.html
Bigger Military Raise, Better Benefits HitTom Philpott | July 13, 2007
Talk about lousy timing.With President Bush’s popularity scraping bottom in opinion polls, with U.S. casualties rising in Iraq in a force surge that has stretched soldier tours to 15 months, the Bush administration July 10 said it “strongly opposes” key military pay and benefit gains tossed into their fiscal 2008 defense bill.Initiatives the administration “strongly opposes” include:– A military pay raise for next January of 3.5 percent versus 3 percent endorsed by the White House.– Lowering the age-60 start of reserve retirement annuities for reserve component members by the length of their future mobilizations.– Expanding eligibility for Combat-Related Special Compensation to service members forced by combat disabilities to retire short of 20 years.
Go ahead Phillip, beat the drum to get out of Iraq NOW, leaving the government unstable and unable to defend itself. Allow the sworn enemies of the US have control of the largest oil fields in the world and a base for terrorist operations world wide. Myopic.
Posted by: outlander
If the US was off the Middle East oil teat then WE would have the upper hand and not vice versa. To hell with the rest of the world, we are not the policeman for the world.
If Bush is worried about the war on terror – then why has he not secured our own country? Why has Bush allowed millions of illegals (not just Mexicans) to cross our borders undetected? Why does Bush insist on spending billions of dollars on a war that only his few rich fat cats are getting even fatter? Halliburton has been paid 2.9 billion dollars that is unaccounted for – and Bush is not concerned about this?
This war, outlander, IS about oil and the power and greed of the oil men in the White House.
“If you say “WMDs”, then you gotta be able to show that he knew they weren’t there when everyone else thought they were. Otherwise you are lying”
Outlander does make a valid point, I have came to believe that Bush&Co. DID NOT know that Saddam had gotten rid of the WMDs. Now there were indications he no longer had them, but they were just as inconclusive as the evidence he did still have them. In the end there was a real question about the subject, one that should have called for a conclusive answer before an invasion and a violation of the long standing principals of this country. Bad on Bush&Co, the Congress and the Senate of the United States. And yes, if I had little trouble finding enough to show a real question as to the question of WMDs. Then BAD on the American public too!
But also outlander, as to everyone else, they just did not know for sure saddam DID NOT still have them.So they could not question the President of the strongest country in the world. As has been pointed out recently by one of the Republicans that voted for the authorization of action. “I went by what I was told in the case for the need for such action. It was not until after I had vote for the authorization that I found that at least some of the information I had been given to review was not actuate or totally the facts.”.
But if NOT knowing for sure that it is the truth is a lie, then it is a lie. Otherwise it is just poor judgment and in this case could lead to a global war that endangers the United States.
Bush and Cheney both have been beating the drums to go to war with Iran. So Iraq was just to get into get the oil and then be there to start the Holiest of all Holy Wars.
Bush and Cheney and the Republicans that still support them, hide behind the American Flag, God and Mom’s apple pie to try to present the war as a good thing for the US. After 780 billions of dollars – what has this war gained for us?
I believe that Bush and Cheney knew from day one in office (there has been countless people verifying this) that he wanted to invade Iraq. So they used anything, faulty intelligence or not. The sad fact is that most people believed them and went straightforward into a desert of doom. We are now there and have to live with the consequences of an ill-thought war.
Maybe our next president and vice president will have more sense than God gave a slug.
You know, you have to ask yourselves why the GOP is so concerned with a proxy war with Iran when there are more Saudis in Iraq than Iranians. Lord help us if we get into a war with Iran.
Bush HIMSELF on Friday reported on the administration’s own “Report Card” in Iraq. Of eighteen “progress points” determined by the administration itself, the president reported “minor progress” in eight. EIGHT of EIGHTEEN. By anyone’s measure, that’s a Gentleman’s F. There’s now a little more than than a month until the report to Congress – and oh yeah – the Iraqi Parliament is taking a month off, because, in the words of Tony Snow, “it’s 130 degress in Baghdad.” I have never heard a more offensive affront to our troops. This isn’t about “libs” or “repukes” – it’s about complete and total ineptitude in foreign policy.
BAGHDAD — Although Bush administration officials have frequently lashed out at Syria and Iran, accusing it of helping insurgents and militias here, the largest number of foreign fighters and suicide bombers in Iraq come from a third neighbor, Saudi Arabia, according to a senior U.S. military officer and Iraqi lawmakers.
About 45% of all foreign militants targeting U.S. troops and Iraqi civilians and security forces are from Saudi Arabia; 15% are from Syria and Lebanon; and 10% are from North Africa, according to official U.S. military figures made available to The Times by the senior officer. Nearly half of the 135 foreigners in U.S. detention facilities in Iraq are Saudis, he said.
Fighters from Saudi Arabia are thought to have carried out more suicide bombings than those of any other nationality, said the senior U.S. officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the subject’s sensitivity. It is apparently the first time a U.S. official has given such a breakdown on the role played by Saudi nationals in Iraq’s Sunni Arab insurgency.
He said 50% of all Saudi fighters in Iraq come here as suicide bombers. In the last six months, such bombings have killed or injured 4,000 Iraqis.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-saudi15jul15,0,3132262.story?coll=la-home-center
Saudi Arabia. Isn’t that the country most of the 9/11 hijackers came from? Isn’t that the home of the Wahabi sect from which alQuada evolved? And isn’t the House of Saud closely allied with the House of Bush?
I knew it! Bush caused the Iraqui war by hiring the 9/11 victims, er terrorists who flew planes into the world trade center. He did this so the Iraqi oil fiels would become nonproductive, and the Saudis, along with Hallicheney, would make millions more! I got it now!
Every time I take on the Jews {Zionist-Jews ruling Israel } the comeback is always both “anti-Semitic” and “Why do you blame the Jews for all the World’s problems?”
There is nothing wrong with the Jewish Religion and the specific criticism is about causing an atomic war in the Middle East, not “all the world’s problems” and why do you rest of you never criticize “Atomic War or all-out war in the Middle East” or make criticism about that retort?
Is it because you’re afraid to take them on; they’ve got you too scared.
They are the reason we’re in Iraq and are planning to attack Iran. The only threat which Iran offers is to defend itself. They wish Israel wasn’t there to threaten all out war, but they’re not suggesting anything except self-defense.
The “wipe-off the map reference” is about moving Israel out of the Middle East, and Hamas is not capable of driving them into the sea.
That crap is Bush’s propaganda.
So what’s wrong with fighting for oil? How much do you want to pay for gas? How much do you want the economy to suffer? How much do the poor and middle class have to suffer so you weasels can show that you hate your country more than any other country on the face of the earth?
We have become a pitiful helpless giant because our citizens are weak, gutless, cowards who don’t have the will to support the military endeavors of their country. We can slaughter innocent babies, but then whine about fighting to preserve our way of life. What a sick society.
LJ,
Don’t know if you were joking or not, but that is a damn scary proposition.
And look, it’s Ed,the mouthpiece for Islamic jihad and anti-Semitism. Hi Ed finish your roast camel for breakfast?
GB is a rabble rousing trouble-making Zionist.
SolDevVB–
:-)
The real goal is Imperialism or world conquest. GB spews the PNAC line.
GB,
Q) What’s wrong with fighting for oil?A) It isn’t our oil dumbass. We INVADED a country – simple enough for you?
Q) How much do you want to pay for gas?A) I’m seeing record highs right now because of the war. So what was your point?
Wake up GB and smell the petroleum fumes. If we had dumped as much money on the Iraqi war into alternative fuel research, you would be driving a hydrogen car right now. So if you can take the neocon blinders off long enough to see – we have spent billions and gained noting as a nation – whoops, except for a STRONGER enemy in al-qaeda.
“And look, it’s Ed,the mouthpiece for Islamic jihad and anti-Semitism. Hi Ed finish your roast camel for breakfast?”
The Zionist asshole wouldn’t come back at me if I hadn’t nailed his ass.
Oops–I got it wrong. It the Mossad who paid the victims, sorry, terrorists, sorry, mercenaries into the World Trade Center. Bush cleared the Airspace and put the military on standdown
Oil=Traders are trading at a price which factors in all out war in the Middle East.
Oil Trades on the open Market and the price reflects supply and demand.
The basic problem is that we do not share any goals with the Iraqi government. They could care less about reconciliation or the sharing of oil revenues. We could stay there two more days or 2 million days – it wouldn’t matter or change.
It is past time to turn this mess over to them and let them deal with their problems — clearly problems we created for them, but problems they are going to have to resolve.
{ Should be “future” supply and demand }.
Oil prices are high in part because we no longer have the will to assassinate pigs like Hugo Chavez and the whack job in Iran. Every time one of those boobs belches out some drivel the price goes up. Congress needs to butt out and give our intelligence services the go ahead to take these squirrels out.
So for the pro-war few out there, why are we not going after the Saudis?
Very good points Sol.
Not-so-gentle – you sound like you would be right at home with Adolph murdering antone who resisted your stealing their property.
Impromptu assassinations he says. Outstanding ben. There is a padded room waiting for you. Say hello to your new roommate. Ben, meet Ed Friedmann, Ed, this is ben.
With that said, Senator Warner’s approach makes eminent sense to me. If one adheres to the original text of the resolution that was overwhelmingly enacted, then one sees it doesn’t meet the current situation at all, and it can be argued that the current authorization does not have continuing validity for the changed mission. Such approach might seem for all intents and purposes identical to revocation of the original authorization followed by a new authorization, but I feel there are substantive differences between the two approaches. A revocation would imply to me that actions taken subsequent to the overthrow of Saddam and the enforcement of U.N. Resolutions, which, in the light of the failure to find any WMD were, to the extent the same was the subject of the original resolutions, inapplicable, were presumptively unlawful as a matter of international law. The passage of a new resolution authorizing the changed mission could be seen as ratifying the prior actions, removing questions of the validity of the same. I’m sure this makes no sense to anyone but me, and I apologize for that, as the caffeine is not “kicking in” in sufficient force for me to more clearly articulate my thoughts.
I think I caught a little of that VT. So when Congress continued to fund the war until Sept, can that be seen as ratifying the original authorization?
Does that short sheet the Congress’ ability to revoke the authority?
One could certainly make that argument, Sol, i.e., the continuation of funding under the original authorization acts as a ratification of all actions since, thereby creating a real issue over its ability to now revoke said authority in a way that could pass legal muster. Thus, the appeal to me of the approach taken by Senator Warner, joined by Senator Lugar.
Stated another way, if the Congress believes that the actions of the Administration are violative of the original resolution, it has the “power of the purse” available to it to express its displeasure. This, again, presents a Hobson’s Choice to the opponents from a political perspective.
I’m fully cognizant of the political realities connected with attempts to limit funding/cut off funding, combined with the veto power of the President. Given the experience of the shutdown during the Clinton years, I submit neither party wants to try that one again, given the uncertainty surrounding the same from a political perspective. President Clinton gambled and won; there’s no guarantee of the same result if tried again.
I would like to publically say that “there is no doubt that outlander rapes his dog,” “we know where he rapes his dog,” “it’s a slam-dunk that he rapes his dog.”
If I say something that I believe is true, but it’s not true, isn’t that a lie?
GB has all the Zionists “talking points” He’s probably an AIPAC plant.
“Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else”
- Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President of the United States
Not from a strict legal perspective, Capn. For it to be a lie, you must know it to be false, or (in defamation cases, at least) willfully not care whether it is false, and then publish it anyway.
I’m fine with going after the Saudis. Why we pay billions to a bunch of petty dictators who would be happy if we gave them a couple of goats to eat,a couple of whores to spend time with and a new tent is beyond me.
“If I say something that I believe is true, but it’s not true, isn’t that a lie?”
It could be delusional; cross reference outlander’s posts.
Hmmm . . . so when Rumsfailed said “we KNOW WHERE THE WMD’s ARE,” that was not a lie because he BELIEVED that he knew where they were?
And Clinton did not lie when he said “I did not have sex with that woman” because he believed that fooling around without intercourse wasn’t sex?
Okay . . .
Reaching pretty deep there Capn.
An intel report showing circled targets vs. Oral sex sex.
But there were a lot of intel reports showing that 10 years of sanctions and weapons inspections had done their jobs.
Then there was also the inconvenient matter of Hans Blix and the Weapons Inspectors on the ground in Iraq finding nothing.
Uh,let’s see. The inspectors will be here today, let’s move the stuff over there for a week or two.
Not too mention Condi and Colon standing up and saying in Feb. of 2001 that Saddam is “in a box” and “the policy of containment had worked.”
Yeah, Ben–
They moved TONS AND TONS of WMD’s “over there.”
You people still believe the propaganda and lies after they have been thoroughly discredited.
That’s what so scary about you.
“GB has all the Zionists “talking points” He’s probably an AIPAC plant.”
Do you know where I could get an employment application, Ed? I wouldn’t mind getting paid for doing this and the Israelis are my type of folks. Arabs suck.
Your problem Cap’n is that you still get your news from CNN and The Eagle. Why not just watch Al Jazeera (or whatever it’s called) direct?
Reports of inspectors being paid off. Inspectors being shot at entering a site while trucks left the site out the back at a high rate of speed.
That vs. a Johnson in the mouth of an intern.
Yeah, I can see where you got confused capn.
Who’s been more right about the war so far? Bush and his tons and tons of WMD’s or Al Jazeera with their photographs of dead Iraqi children by American bombs?
Who are you gonna believe: a President with a track-record of total falsehood or your own lying eyes?
See, there’s Sollie . . . STILL DEFENDING the lies even after the President’s hand picked man David Kay said “we were all wrong.”
No credible evidence of a WMD has ever been found since the invasion of Iraq.
You people who supported the war on that basis were dupes.
Deal with reality.
I would like to publically say that “there is no doubt that outlander rapes his dog,” “we know where he rapes his dog,” “it’s a slam-dunk that he rapes his dog.”
If I say something that I believe is true, but it’s not true, isn’t that a lie?
Posted by: CapnAmerica | July 17, 2007 at 09:51 AM
Depends upon, as even a moron would know, whether you have evidence that a would lead a reasonable person to the same conclusion. Obviously in the case of WMDs that was the case.
I do have a conclusion though, Capn, of which there is ample evidence.
You are a dumbsh*t.
And you still have issues understanding what is written. You can time jump if you want, but we were talking about PRIOR to the war.
No credible evidence of a WMD has ever been found since the invasion of Iraq.You people who supported the war on that basis were dupes.Deal with reality.Posted by: CapnAmerica | July 17, 2007 at 10:24 AM
Those DAMN liberal democrats that voted to go to war, ‘You people’ were dupes.
Well, again, the Democrats didn’t vote to go to war. They voted to give the President the authority to go to war.
But, yes, I was and am pissed at them too.
They were sucker punched the same as the American public.
And that’s why you saw every loss to an incumbent in 2006 come from a Republican.
Americans give their leaders a lot of leeway, but when they f*** up like BushCo has f***ed up, they’re looking to throw the b*st*rds out.
For those who think al-Qua’da is America’s greatest security risk, consider what else is going on out there:
CHINA’S RACE TO SPACEChina looking skyward for a military advantage over U.S. space program
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/07/15/INGU9R0P791.DTL
And guess who’s paying for it, thanks to American corporate mandarins who’ve sold (out) America on relocating manufacturing to China, on the pretext that lowering consumer prices via cheap Chinese labor is great for America, and outweighs all other considerations.
After what the pResident did in Florida, the only principled thing the Democrats should have done is opposed EVERYTHING that came from this unelected, uncompromising autocrat.
Unfortunately, Democrats and principles don’t seem to go together much anymore . . .
“Do you know where I could get an employment application, Ed? I wouldn’t mind getting paid for doing this and the Israelis are my type of folks. Arabs suck.”
Gentile Ben is a Zionist AIPAC treasonous plant. He has each one of their Zionist talking points and believes in the cold-blooded murder of Palestinian children. 529 head shots in one year.
He is the enemy of the United States.
Lies, the neo-cons still can’t accept it. The intelligence report of WMD was edited to leave out information for the Congress. Bush lied about the cost and length of the war. Bush lied about connections between Saddam and Bin Laden. Bush lied about the threat of danger to America. Bush lied about Iraq’s attempt to acquire nuclear weapons. Alas, I can go on but this is all new information to the uninformed neo-cons.
If you say “WMDs”, then you gotta be able to show that he knew they weren’t there when everyone else thought they were. Otherwise you are lying.
Wasn’t Hanz Blick there telling us he could find no WMDs and then Bushco ordered him out because it wasn’t the ansqwer he wanted to hear?
Doug: Well if Bush really lied, why don’t the spineless Democrats impeach him??
Or is it all just BS?
The failure of the inspectors, once they were again allowed into Iraq, to find any WMDs although the widely held belief was the same were all over Iraq, should have given the President, as well as the Congress, reason to say “We need some newer, fresher and better intelligence on this” before proceeding. The failure to do so rests on all involved in the process.
Rather than addressing arguments Liberals found that moral intimidation was an effective tactic to willfully spread false news of the US military with an intent to disrupt their operations, to foment mutiny in the ranks, obstruct recruiting and generally support the thoughts and views of an enemy.
I do believe they call that Sedition.
Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote “, “[w]hen a nation is at war many things that might be said in time of peace are such a hindrance to its effort that their utterance will not be endured so long as men fight, and that no Court could regard them as protected by any constitutional right.”
In other words, the court held, the circumstances of wartime permit greater restrictions on free speech than would be allowable during peacetime.
Hans Blix didn’t really declare that the inspections were working,only that they would inhibit Saddam Hussein from developing his WMD at a faster pace. The Liberal Left mantra of “No WMD” is empty rhetoric when everyone knew Hussein’s intention was to build WMD’s.
Mainstream Media that focus on improvised explosive devices and death reports because they are too scared to leave the safety of their foreign media centers to report on the courage and success our Marines, Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen.
The Mainstream Media also has a Leftist agenda (proven by their overwhelming financial contributions to the Democratic Party) and they want to provide their fanatics with scape-goat divisive talking points.
Unveiled contempt with anyone disagreeing with the Left’s slimy rhetoric along with shallow grave solutions is the shrill cry of the surrender monkey Leftists.
Not only can they not come up with a plan, they disguise their ideology with jingoistic phraseology to fool the clueless and the compliant non-thinker.
Let’s all sing a song just doesn’t get it when it comes to National defense.
The Leftist Surrender Monkeys of the Press and its followers would rather praise “Attention Whore” Cindy Sheehan who vampires the life insurance money of her dead son.
The Mainstream Media Press ignore the troop supporting folks and fail to report on them like the noble efforts of women like Patti Patton-Bader who raises funds and creates letter writing and email campaigns that boosts the morale of our troops.
Adhering to the philosophy of our enemy, the Leftist Liberals are totally clueless of just how much they are aiding and abetting our enemy.
You will note that 99.0 percent of Leftist Liberal argument is personal attack or one that picks and chooses only the “fog of war” issues. They will never-ever compliment what a fine job our soldiers are doing nor will they acknowledge the efforts of anyone who is support of our troops.
Their main goals is one of their own selfish political agenda. They could care less about the soldier in the field and what victories they have had. They would rather use the Jack Murtha approach of “guilty until proven innocent” in blaming our troops for murderous or immoral acts.
You Libs do realize that Murtha refuses to eat his words that he was totally wrong about the Marines in the “shooting of Iraqi Civilians” accusations? Yet, the MSM picked up on this story and found the Murtha view credible because one of “theirs” said it was true.
Same on the Leftist Liberals for killing the morale of our soldiers and making them feel like discarded trash. Shame on the Democratic Party for putting their ideologies above the safety and support of our troops.
What’s wrong with America? The Democratic party is what is wrong with America. The touch feely tree-hugging hippies have turned into cut-throat pirates that will hammer at the good name of anyone for the sake of talking points.
The Leftist Liberals feel if they can some how “win” a debate through intimidation tactics using profane words and half-truths they are some how establishing themselves on a superior seat of power.
The only thing they have managed to do is to show everyone, just how truly despicable they truly are.
They have no plan, they are are a party of empty solutions with socialistic intentions of a pure nanny state.
Kansas,
A) It was so much nicer when you were under your rock…
B) Pick a damn name and stick with it – quit trying to conceal your identity – If you are proud of what you have to say and exhibit the so-called morals that you say the democrats have lost, then there should be no need for you to have to change your name once a week
C) Where do you get that anyone blames our troops for doing their jobs? Granted, there may be a few crazies out there who do, but they blame them even in peace time. Those of us on here that are against the war do NOT blame our troops. We blame the people that sent them there. We want to see them come home SAFELY instead of needlessly losing their lives in a war we never should have started to begin with… Talk about misleading talking points…
D) We are already in a freaking nanny state with YOUR republican president monitering our phone calls without probable cause and doing anything else he wants to under the guise of National Security.
If anyone poses a threat to this nation, it’s people like you, who refuse to participate in adult conversation, but would rather throw around name tags and stereotypes and blame your own problems on anyone but yourself…
“I do have a conclusion though, Capn, of which there is ample evidence.
“You are a dumbsh*t.”
Posted by: outlander | July 17, 2007 at 10:25 AM
Goodness, gracious, mercy sakes alive…
No surprise here. When outlander is presented with the facts he changes the subject. No outrage from the neo-cons. It’s just theft, murder and lies, all in a day’s work for a neo-con.
If that is true doug, then why hasn’t the congress acted to impeach?
anon’s post – typical Lib, no thoughts other than personal attack and just as I posted before, unveiled contempt with anyone disagreeing with their views.
60% unemployment in Iraq. Infrastructure worse than pre-war levels. US trained police and army fighting in militias against US soldiers, al-Qaida emboldened, millions of Iraqis having fled the country and we’ve lost the support of the Iraqi people. The albatross in chief says we are getting our bang for the buck at on $13 billion a month.
“Mainstream Media that focus on improvised explosive devices and death reports because they are too scared to leave the safety of their foreign media centers to report on the courage and success our Marines, Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen.”
Posted by: Kansas, the many-named LYING troll at 11:30 AM.
Like these two “Mainstream Media”, who are now DEAD, from a U.S. helicopter attack!?
‘Reuters Asks for Pentagon Probe of Deaths of 2 Staffers in Iraq’http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003611970“Photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen, 22, and driver Saeed Chmagh, 40, were killed in Baghdad on Thursday in what witnesses said was a U.S. helicopter attack and which police in a preliminary report called “random American bombardment….Gunmen shot dead an Iraqi who worked as a translator for Reuters last Wednesday….
Two other Iraqi journalists working for Reuters have been killed by American soldiers since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003. Two foreigners, a Palestinian and a Ukrainian, have also been killed by American troops….Iraq is the world’s most dangerous country to report.
The Committee to Protect Journalists in New York has estimated that at least 149 reporters and media assistants have been killed since 2003. The vast majority have been Iraqis.”
How MANY journalists should DIE, to report the “success” of our troops?
Doug: Well if Bush really lied, why don’t the spineless Democrats impeach him??
Or is it all just BS?
WE ARE THE MASTERS. WE HAVE BEEN CHOSEN BY GOD TO RULE THE WORLD. WE ARE ORDAINED TO TAKE ANYTHING WE WANT; ANY INFERIOR DARK-SKINNED CAMEL JOCKEYS SHALL BE EXTERMINATED!
THAT OIL IS OURS! WE ARE ENTITLED TO IT! WE ARE THE MASTER RACE; GOD’S CHOSE PEOPLE!
I gather that these two are native Iraqis and would have been in Iraq anyway?
I also willing to bet they were free-lancing and not embedded with the troops.
They probably had the brilliant idea of walking right into a fire zone on the business end of that fire zone hoping for some “good shots.”
I’m sorry these reporters died, but stupidity whether wearing a Press badge or not is not a substitute for good judgment in a battle zone.
Also cosmos, you have nothing to report on the heroic actions and deeds of American troops?
I didn’t think so.
Just as I wrote and predicted in my previous post.
Perhaps, Sol, for the very practical reason that the votes aren’t there for a conviction. Will they ever be there before this Administration leaves office? I don’t know. Two months ago, I would say confidently “no”, but as things progress, there might be a shift in position. I do not believe this will happen, though. Impeachment and conviction are deservedly tough processes under the Constitution.
Without elaboration, I do not believe the phrase “or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors” requires an actual “crime” as we understand the term be committed by the officer for there to be an impeachment proceeding begun. Laying aside the idea (with which I agree) that “high Crimes and Misdemeanors” are whatever the House decides they are, contextually, looking at the English Parliamentary impeachment procedure apparently underlying our impeachment procedure it seems that a “high Crime” is one of a, for lack of a better term, “political” crime, that is, one which could not occur without the individual being in office and, in some form or another, betraying the public trust by actions in office. No link, as I did not want to fight the “bot” catcher, but employment of the Google will give many results discussing the meaning of the words used in the phrase quoted above.
Doug: Well if Bush really lied, why don’t the spineless Democrats impeach him??
Or is it all just BS?
Help, I’m caught in a temporal causality loop!
VT is correct. With Republicans in the Senate an impeachment at this point would be an exercise in futility. However, IF 1/3 of the GOP Senators were to see the light (as they did with Nixon) we might see impeachment.
“I’m sorry these reporters died, but stupidity whether wearing a Press badge or not is not a substitute for good judgment in a battle zone.”
Posted by: Kansas, the many-named LYING troll at 12:19 AM.
Republikhan seems to blame the reporters for their own deaths, BEFORE the “Pentagon Probe” has even begun.
‘Reuters Asks for Pentagon Probe of Deaths of 2 Staffers in Iraq’http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003611970
Outlander, your determination of whether or not someone has lied is if they are impeached? Great, Outlander, you are a notorious pedophile which put the Catholic church to shame. Since I haven’t been impeached I must be telling the truth.
Desperation, thy name is outlander.
Doug, you are twisting it (poorly I might add). The challenge is if you – and congress – are so sure Bush lied to them, why haven’t they impeached him?
Doug: A little tip here. Just because something appears on a left wing website does not make it true. Lies appear on those websites. As a matter of fact, lies appear on your left wing website.
Proof. Let’s see it. Put up or shut up.
Early in the discussion questionedwhat did President Bush lie about?WMD’s that everyone thought were there? Well President Bush doesnt lie he has bad intelliegence. In the State of the Union speech he stated that Saddam was trying to get a nuclear matireals (good scaretactic). That misstatement (er lie)was based on the Italian letter one of the flimsiest pieces of evidence ever used. They also tookswift action against Wilson and wife Plame when they dare to question the intell. Now we have billions gone to Halliburton with no explantion. Please explain
RE: “Well President Bush doesnt lie he has bad intelliegence. ”
I think the problem is more clearly defined by the fact Bush was born with “bad intelligence”, and therein lies the problem, both his and ours!
Well, let’s see Kansas, that statement wasn’t inflammatory or personal either, right?
I am NOT a liberal. I am NOT a democrat. I simply believe our men and women are dying NEEDLESSLY over a war we SHOULD not be fighting. You want to protect the US and what it stands for? Send those men and women after the people that are the REAL threat to us!
And what, just because I said that we don’t disdain our troops, but the people who sent them there, I am a liar?
Just because I said that you shouldn’t need to change your name if you honesly believe that you are moral and right in your statements you somehow take offense?
Tell me how you don’t twist the truth to say what you want it to say the way that you have CONTINOUSLY done on this website and maybe THEN I will be more inclined to listen to what you have to say. But when all you can do is call names and point fingers and refuse to look at things objectively as well, why in god’s name would I agree with you?
Yes Outlander, Bush’s State of the Union Address appeared only on left wing websites. Clearly you are too distant from reality to even engage the subject. Now I know where Bush’s 22% support for the occupation comes from.
Anon, you be barking up a bad tree there… Just walk on by… Some folks in this world are the only ones who have all of the information, on anything, at any time, about everything there is to know…. ummmmm… NOT!!
“I gather that these two are native Iraqis and would have been in Iraq anyway?”
Posted by: Kansas, the many-named LYING troll, at 12:19 AM.
Is that supposed to make their deaths less significant?
http://blogs.reuters.com/2007/07/13/namir-noor-eldeen-and-saeed-chmagh“Yesterday two Reuters colleagues, photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen and driver Saeed Chmagh were killed in Baghdad. Namir was only 23 but had already produced a body of work which stands as testament to his talent and energy and the potential he will never now fulfil. Saeed, 40, married with four children was not a journalist but no less dedicated to covering the news and one of the largely unsung local heroes without whom it would be impossible to report the story on the ground.
The following are among the tributes to the two men received from colleagues and friends.”
See the link for the tributes, and some of Namir Noor-Eldeen’s photos.
If the day comes that the Iraqis don’t want us there, I for one will be happy to extend them a middle finger as the last ship pulls out of port to get out of there. Until then we have to stay however. But I do think we should hold an election in Iraq and ask them to vote whether we stay or we go and if they say we can go, our boys will be only too happy to pack up and head home. Then they can deal with their own bloody mess and we don’t have to feel guilty about the bloodbath that will follow.
“Sigh…Doug, what was the lie the president told to get us into the war?
If you say “WMDs”, then you gotta be able to show that he knew they weren’t there when everyone else thought they were. Otherwise you are lying.”
That is why we had the UN inspectors in Iraq- to verify one way or the other. Unfortunately Bush did not allow them to finish their work or we would have known. A FACT that cons forget.
Oil was cheaper when Saddam was in charge because he kept it flowing. The government in Iraq cannt even scratch its ass.
“Then they can deal with their own bloody mess and we don’t have to feel guilty about the bloodbath that will follow.”
Uh, Kev? We wont be responsible for the damage that bomb does because all we did was light the fuse?
outlander,
The Bush Administration had plenty of advance notice that Iraq possessed no WMD’s, according to Tyler Drumheller, ex-CIA chief for Europe.
“Drumheller said that, before the U.S.-led attack on Iraq in 2003, the White House “ignored crucial information” from Iraq’s foreign minister, Naji Sabri, that indicated Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction.
Drumheller said that, when then-CIA Director George Tenet told President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and other high-ranking officials that Sabri was providing information, his comments were met with excitement that proved short-lived.
“[The source] told us that there were no active weapons of mass destruction programs,” Drumheller is quoted as saying. “The [White House] group that was dealing with preparation for the Iraq war came back and said they were no longer interested. And we said ‘Well, what about the intel?’ And they said ‘Well, this isn’t about intel anymore. This is about regime change.’”
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/04/23/cia.iraq/index.html
Guess that makes you the ‘liar’ for claiming otherwise, outlander.
WMD was the primary rationale put forward by the Administration for invading Iraq. I remember it all very well, your attempts at historical revisionism notwithstanding.
To say there was some other motive, or that WMD was secondary is, as they used to call it, a lie.
“So what’s wrong with fighting for oil? How much do you want to pay for gas? How much do you want the economy to suffer? ”
You are kidding?? You can go and fight for YOUR “way of life” or send your kids if you have any. I will stay home and ride the damn bus if I have to. In fact, I think that everybody that owns a Ford Expedition, Chevy Suburban or Hummer should be required to sign up and serve in the Army before being allowed to buy one. It is my view that GM has done more damage to the USA than just about any other organization except for the Republican Party and the cigarette companies. Now the chickens are coming home to roost as more and more people are buying Hondas and Toyotas so we don’t have to send the terrorist our dollars. The terrorist love GM and Ford because that is how they get funded. This year Toyota beat GM for the first time to become America’s biggest selling car (actually if you didn’t count the millions of fleet vehicles GM sells, Toyota would have been #1 5 years ago). Yet when Congress just had hearings to raise the gas MPG requirements (long overdue), guess who showed up to bitch and whine? Yep- GM and Ford. Funny that Toyota, Nissan and Honda don’t have problems meeting the standards!
Oh, and good for Harry Reid for scheduling an all-night session of Senate debate to force those Republicans who’d rather protect the President than the troops to defend their decision.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/17/washington/17cong.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
The Iraq withdrawal resolution deserves an up-or-down vote. Why are Senate Republicans scared? They should be willing to explain their support for the continuation of the war, rather than hiding behind Senator McConnell’s procedural games.
outlander,
You should read the WH.gov link below,
‘The Ever Changing Definition of ‘Mission’ In Iraq’http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/14/changing-missionTHE PRE-WAR MISSION WAS TO RID IRAQ OF WMD
Bush: “Our mission is clear in Iraq. Should we have to go in, our mission is very clear: disarmament.” [3/6/03] http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030306-8.html
So you would have trusted the Iraqi Foreign Minister(Saddam’s), CF?
Well, somewhat bizarrely, that would have been the right call. But it certainly isn’t dishonest not to trust him.
Look CF, I am not interested in defending the Iraq war. But what I object to is lefties throwing around allegations that Bush lied about this, or Bush lied about that without a modicum of evidence. And I’m calling them on it.
For all the supporters of the illegal occupation this is for you:
http://www.goarmy.com/contact/find_a_recruiter.jsp?hmref=cs
Why are you wasting your time here?
What were the reasons given to us for going into Iraq? WMD and democracy. Bush found out that the UN inspectors were right all along and there were no WMD, and the Iraqis voted for their government so there is no longer a justification to remain. Only the Australian Prime Minister was honest enough to say it’s all about the oil.
The reality that the cowardly neo-cons hate to admit is that Bush has accomplished his goals. The oil companies control the Iraqi oil supplies and the soldiers are there simply to serve as company security guards to protect those assets.
The one questions the neo-cons cannot honestly answer, much less answer at all, is what’s the justification for remaining in Iraq for the 5th year. The good news is that in 5 days my friend is officially out of the Marines so he won’t have to die for Exxon. The neo-cons here can always take his place:
http://www.goarmy.com/contact/find_a_recruiter.jsp?hmref=cs
You may need to bring your own crayons to fill out the forms.
The “WAR” is between the People of the United States and the Government of the United States.
That Asshole Bush and that G-D Cheney and that Piece of Shit Rove and his inbred Neocons better get that straight.
The “War” has not escalated passed words, but all indications are that the People want their Government back…
outlander,
There was lots of evidence showing Saddam had no WMD’s. Always has been. The IAEA reports; Scott Ritter; etc. and ad nauseum.
Evidently the CIA chief for Europe thought Foreign Minister Sabri was credible. At least as credible as “Curveball,” and not even half as previously discredited.
This Administration hears what it wants to hear, believes what it wants to believe, and lies about virtually everything, whether it has to or not.
Got that, outlander? They LIE. About EVERYTHING.
More MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20070717/cm_usatoday/pentagonditheringturnedusforcesintosittingducks;_ylt=AoMxkHAmLz.oKnpPtvoS.MbMWM0F
Pentagon dithering turned U.S. forces into sitting ducks
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/07/16/BL2007071600891.html?nav=hcmodule
How Bush Uses His Generals
By Dan FroomkinSpecial to washingtonpost.comMonday, July 16, 2007; 2:00 PM
President Bush says that he should be trusted on military issues because he listens to his commanders. But he has a tendency to celebrate his generals when they’re providing him political cover — then stick a knife in their backs when they’re no longer of any use to him.
“We have become a pitiful helpless giant because our citizens are weak, gutless, cowards who don’t have the will to support the military endeavors of their country. We can slaughter innocent babies, but then whine about fighting to preserve our way of life. What a sick society.”
Posted by “gentle” ben.
What a disgusting WRONG comment by this individual.
In the first place, gentle one, please explain to me exactly how Iraq was a threat to this country. Second, how does supporting the military, but not this idiotic war make one a member of a sick society?
The truly sick ones are the ones who support this administration in its vendetta against any country, or leaders, who don’t like us.
It doesn’t seem to matter to you and the other bush followers we are creating a whole generation of Muslim extremists by invading a country who has NOT attacked us.
Those same extremists are going to do whatever it takes to assault our shores, and we have Bush to thank for that because he has forgotten the first rule of this country: protect our shores. Think open borders, and no end in site. But we do have the homeland security act, passed by morons in a fit of amnesia.
Careful Outlander, Phillip Brownlee will ban you for having the wrong party opinion. He tried to ban me, but as you can see was unsuccessful.
All the whiners here on the Blog must have thrown a hissy fit and claimed how much they were hurt and abused when they do the same thing.
How about old Tom threatening to illegally invade a church and take it over by force.
Maybe WSClark calling Fleettwood and telling everyone that Fleettwood rapes his dead daughters.
Yeah, if the Right has an opinion on a matter, they get banned.
The left can use profane language, threaten people, tell lies about them and generally make false claims against anyone.
The Wichita Eagle is a tool of the Leftist MainStream Media Press and deserve to be ignored by all.
Maybe the Eagle is upset that I reported the truth that McClatchy who owns the Wichita Eagle is now considered Junk Bond status?
Was that it Phillip Brownlee?
Maybe they got tired of all of your LIES, such as about the Sierra Club,http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/07/open-thread-713.html#comment-75802340
If I were the editors, I’d ban the IP of the person who spams old boards with porno links etc.
Can’t help but wonder if that had something to do with it . . .
“How about old Tom threatening to illegally invade a church and take it over by force.”Posted by: Republikansas | July 17, 2007 at 03:32 PM
You’re a complete and total jackass, and not worth the money I pay the power company to display your useless posts on my screen. And since I have a low-power consumption monitor, and you take up a _very_ insignificant amount of space on it, that will tell you what you’re worth.
A village massacre (29 dead), and the usual deaths from car bombs, etc. Another typical day in Iraq…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070717/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq;_ylt=AgsznpGXktfiE85fpsIiLv2s0NUE
You see people exactly as I predicted, cosmos is posting another death tally.
The Left is only about using death as their talking points, they could give a crap about the dead people, soldiers or not.
A couple of things:
1. How do you have evidence that something doesn’t exist? it is impossible to “prove” a negative.
2. How many people were killed in NY, LA, Detroit and Chicago this last week?
3. Ed, re: the Palestinian children, the 529 head shots wasn’t from on year, it was from one litter.
You Fuc*ing Zionist Pig.
al-Qaida exists in Karl Rove’s mind because his Neocons need it, and if anything blows-up I’ll be his bunch that did it.
Think about it: The Iraqis have us leaving their country, so why rock the boat and give us resolve to stay?
Bush is all over TV contradicting himself.
Bushco is dangerously desperate.
The good news is deaths from ethnic cleansing is going down in Iraq. The reason being is because communities are running out of people to kill.
Bush finally has an accurate comparison to fighting the Nazis. Both countries participated in ethnic cleansing, the only difference is in WW2 our leaders put an end to it.
Starting year five in Iraq, what do the neo-cons have to show for it?
If you’ve missed it neo-con nutballs you can contact a recruiter and join the occupation you support.
http://www.goarmy.com/contact/find_a_recruiter.jsp?hmref=cs
“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998“He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.” S- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998.”[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.” — From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998″This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.” — From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others”Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities” — From a joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002″There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to enriched uranium from foreign sources — something that is not that difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.” — John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002″Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.”- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002″We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.”- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
And finally, we are there because:
In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members .. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
Many-named troll,
You’re a liar, and a hypocrite.
Tributes to the 22 year-old photographer and his driver who were recently killed in Iraq — and some of Noor-Eldeen’s photos at,http://blogs.reuters.com/2007/07/13/namir-noor-eldeen-and-saeed-chmagh
http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html“Because bipartisan support for this resolution makes success in the United Nations more likely, and therefore, war less likely, and because a good faith effort by the United States, even if it fails, will bring more allies and legitimacy to our cause, I have concluded, after careful and serious consideration, that a vote for the resolution best serves the security of our nation….My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of pre-emption, or for uni-lateralism, or for the arrogance of American power or purpose — all of which carry grave dangers for our nation, for the rule of international law and for the peace and security of people throughout the world.”
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
So why are we in Iraq, when Al-Quida has been re-grouping in Pakistan?
cosmos refuses to post anything honorable about American Troops.
He’d rather post the deaths of foreigners.
cosmos isn’t an American and if he was in America he would be deported as he only has a Green card. They deport people who make seditious remarks.
We are still in Iraq, because we didn’t send enough troops — and even if we had, it might still have resulted in the same disaster there now.
‘Post-Saddam Iraq: The War Game”Desert Crossing” 1999 Assumed 400,000 Troops and Still a Mess ‘http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB207/index.htm
Old news cosmos, you’re boring.
Rumsfeld is gone. Get a new mantra.
How about supporting the troops cosmos?
Write some positive things about the American or British troops.
Something positive about the troops, ok
The majority of the troops like the nation think we should get out of Iraq. WE have the smartest troops in the world.
>Maybe they have been discredited in your little mind but the war in Iraq is the right thing to do and Bush is the right person to be seeing that it is done no matter what garbage you spew. You are a Closet AlQuada
I think Repuke has come out of the closet and confessed his love of Al Qaeda and their causes!
We are in Iraq to turn them all into Socialist Democrats.
We hope to tax the working people there to make them all the same as the lazy SOB’s there.
Then they will be just like America.
We are still in Iraq BECAUSE:
On the Joint Resolution (H.J.Res. 114 )October 11, 2002, 12:50 AMA joint resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.
Alphabetical by Senator NameAkaka (D-HI), NayAllard (R-CO), YeaAllen (R-VA), YeaBaucus (D-MT), YeaBayh (D-IN), YeaBennett (R-UT), YeaBiden (D-DE), YeaBingaman (D-NM), NayBond (R-MO), YeaBoxer (D-CA), NayBreaux (D-LA), YeaBrownback (R-KS), YeaBunning (R-KY), YeaBurns (R-MT), YeaByrd (D-WV), NayCampbell (R-CO), YeaCantwell (D-WA), YeaCarnahan (D-MO), YeaCarper (D-DE), YeaChafee (R-RI), NayCleland (D-GA), YeaClinton (D-NY), YeaCochran (R-MS), YeaCollins (R-ME), YeaConrad (D-ND), NayCorzine (D-NJ), NayCraig (R-ID), YeaCrapo (R-ID), YeaDaschle (D-SD), YeaDayton (D-MN), NayDeWine (R-OH), YeaDodd (D-CT), YeaDomenici (R-NM), YeaDorgan (D-ND), YeaDurbin (D-IL), NayEdwards (D-NC), YeaEnsign (R-NV), YeaEnzi (R-WY), YeaFeingold (D-WI), NayFeinstein (D-CA), YeaFitzgerald (R-IL), YeaFrist (R-TN), YeaGraham (D-FL), NayGramm (R-TX), YeaGrassley (R-IA), YeaGregg (R-NH), YeaHagel (R-NE), YeaHarkin (D-IA), YeaHatch (R-UT), YeaHelms (R-NC), YeaHollings (D-SC), YeaHutchinson (R-AR), YeaHutchison (R-TX), YeaInhofe (R-OK), YeaInouye (D-HI), NayJeffords (I-VT), NayJohnson (D-SD), YeaKennedy (D-MA), NayKerry (D-MA), YeaKohl (D-WI), YeaKyl (R-AZ), YeaLandrieu (D-LA), YeaLeahy (D-VT), NayLevin (D-MI), NayLieberman (D-CT), YeaLincoln (D-AR), YeaLott (R-MS), YeaLugar (R-IN), YeaMcCain (R-AZ), YeaMcConnell (R-KY), YeaMikulski (D-MD), NayMiller (D-GA), YeaMurkowski (R-AK), YeaMurray (D-WA), NayNelson (D-FL), YeaNelson (D-NE), YeaNickles (R-OK), YeaReed (D-RI), NayReid (D-NV), YeaRoberts (R-KS), YeaRockefeller (D-WV), YeaSantorum (R-PA), YeaSarbanes (D-MD), NaySchumer (D-NY), YeaSessions (R-AL), YeaShelby (R-AL), YeaSmith (R-NH), YeaSmith (R-OR), YeaSnowe (R-ME), YeaSpecter (R-PA), YeaStabenow (D-MI), NayStevens (R-AK), YeaThomas (R-WY), YeaThompson (R-TN), YeaThurmond (R-SC), YeaTorricelli (D-NJ), YeaVoinovich (R-OH), YeaWarner (R-VA), YeaWellstone (D-MN), NayWyden (D-OR), Nay
But Kaeb! They were for the War before they were against it!
Ummm and that list of votes is NEW news??? my goodness.,..
Yes Chaz it is old news, but it is new news for democrats. They seem to have all forgotten……
I see not one of them has forgotten the president. It is so very convenient to blame him for all America’s troubles.
Too bad now. They have NINE appropriation bills due by 30 September. They are starting 30 days vacation as soon as their silly sit in is over. They won’t be able to blame republicans if the bills are not passed.
This was a platform item in their election to power. Hope they don’t conveniently forget that too……..
Dear Iraqi people,
Sorry about that. We made a little boo-boo. Our mistake. We are going to pick up our marbles now and go home. Hope you and your children do well after we depart. Wishing you all the best.
Well, gentle ben, try:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proofProving the negative is as easy as proving the absurd, which your claim appears to be.
Dear Iraqi People,
Please assemble at the new US Embassy and form nice and orderly lines for the helicopter ticket to the world. If you have anything that floats, we will be picking up boat people and relocating them to small cities in the US starting shortly after the withdrawal. Make sure you have some ID with you. We don’t want you getting profiled as mexican illegals.
“Silly sit in,” indeed.
That says it all for what Republicans think of Democracy.
Oh, and Kaeb Elgae, what’s going on tonight is a “filibuster” by Republicans so they don’t have to go on record voting to protect the President rather than U.S. troops.
That’s “filibuster.” It means using a procedural tactic to avoid having to actually vote against something. Right now Republicans know damn well that they’re tethered to a sinking anvil, and will say and do anything to avoid having to voice the support that the White House is demanding of them.
. . . and, Kaeb Elgae, or whatever, while the Democrats are fully aware of their voting record on the war, they are equally aware they made a mistake that has locked us in a quagmire. You can thank the prez for that, as he is the one where the buck stops, and his intel was flawed from day one. But that’s okay, ain’t it; it’s only them damn furiners gettin’ kilt, ain’t it.
O, wait . . . what about the American soldiers getting killed? That seems okay to you, doesn’t it.
Dear (sic) American Government in Iraq,
Between 2-3 million Iraqis have left Iraq so far. Guess how many we’ve let in? Fewer than 800.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18944557/
The Iraqi refugee crisis is at the boiling point whether or not we stay in Iraq. Although it’s probably too much to expect of a Bush apologist like yourself, you ought to get your facts straight.
Dear Iraqi People,
Of course you know America stands for something and always comes to the rescue. We are like our government. We are here to help!
PS: I know the example we have provided through history will support this. We stick to our guns!
And here’s Senator George Voinovich, well aware of the anvil around his and other Republicans’ necks.
“Voinovich added that other Republicans are close to speaking out against the President’s current strategy.
“I won’t mention anyone’s name. But I have every reason to believe that the fur is going to start to fly, perhaps sooner than what they may have wanted.”
In private, Voinovich is more blunt, using a profanity to describe the White House’s handling of Iraq by charging the administration “f—ed up” the war.”
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/07/16/gop-senator-to-rove-bush-legacy-on-the-line-in-iraq/
Go ahead and call him a RINO, fleetwood. Pretty soon the GOP circle jerk is going to be down to you and the other Wingnut kool-aid drinkers for whom Bush’s every word is law.
The rest of us sane folks–moderate Republicans like Lugar and Warner included–are movin’ on.
Dear Terrorist,
Please don’t take our “redeployment” from Iraq as a withdrawal with our tail between our legs.We will chase you to the ends of the earth, and don’t you forget that. We never cut and run.We have the strength as a nation to see things through. Once our congress and presidentcommit us to something, we “git er done”.
PS: Ooops scratch most of that.
Dear Iraqi People,
Please ignore AGiI; his cowboy mentality and delusions of omnipotence are, well, more than a bit embarrassing to the rest of us. We’re sorry he’s screwed up your country.
We sane folks, who aren’t emotionally invested in some military masturbation fantasy that involving threats to our sexual adequacy rather than Iraqi well-being, want to work together, pursuing diplomatic efforts to give you the best chance possible.
Pay our delusional countryman no mind. He speaks only for himself.
Please hurry with your vote and withdrawal.
We are planning big victory celebration!
In Baghdad, Tehran, and Islamabad we will have big party. AK-47’s and M16’s will be firing together into the air in celebration.
WE HAVE DEFEATED THE EVIL SATAN. THE GREAT SATAN. AMERICAN!!!!
PS: Please send more ammo to Iraq now, before withdrawal.
Oh, and Osama? When a Democrat takes the White House next year, expect us to come after you. You’ve had it real soft for the last six years under Bush, and the party’s over, pal.
Mohammad Izar,
Yes, Cheney’s war gave a big boost to your regional aspirations, didn’t it?
I mean, you couldn’t defeat Iraq in a conventional war, but the U.S. saw to it that you’d never have to face Iraq on the battlefield again!
I’d say you owe Cheney a big debt of gratitude. Perhaps you have some oil deal worked with him and Haliburton?
It seems that poor Kaeb Elgae is too stupid to understand the very OBVIOUS difference between Congress “authorizing” war, –
versus the president making an ill-planned, basically unilateral military attack, WITHOUT first using all other means to solve the issue.
You go to the store… you buy some product… you get it home… for whatever reason, it is not the product you thought it was supposed to be… You put it back in the box, and take it back for your refund… They give you a refund….
THEY DO NOT STAND THERE, SHAKING THEIR FINGER AT YOU, SHOUTING: HEY YOU BOUGHT THE PRODUCT, BEFORE YOU RETURNED IT FOR A REFUND!!!
The Democrats are demanding their Refund now!!!
Oh, and Osama? When a Democrat takes the White House next year, expect us to come after you. You’ve had it real soft for the last six years under Bush, and the party’s over, pal.
Posted by: CF2
HA-HA- HO HO! Stop please, I’m ROTFLMAO!!
After liberal democrats vote to CUT AND RUN IN IRAQ, with our tail between our legs CHICKEN, you actually BELIEVE Osama feels threatened by you?
HA-HA-HO-HO!! Stop it my stomach hurts from laughing.
A democrat talks tough? John Wayne MOVE over!!! HA HA
You gonna wrestle me some grizzly and kiss me a purty girl? ;-)
Last time a democratic prez did that, was well never. Maybe Clinton. He lobbed two lonely cuise missles at Osama’s outhouse in Afghan – after Osama BLEW UP AN AMERICAN SHIP AND KILLED 12 AMERICAN SAILORS.
You really, really believe he is worried about you?
What. You gonna INVADE Paki?
:-) HA HA HA
Oh Chas you are so cute.
Over 3,000 AMERICAN LIVES WERE LOST BECAUSE LIBERALS HAVE NO BALLS TO FINISH THE JOB!!!
And you relate it to returning a product to a store in America.
What a disgrace. How DARE you insult our military and take their lives so casually.
“OH sorry families of the dead, we made a mistake.”
You are really sicko.
America will never again be able to fight another war. The American people do not have the intestinal fortitude to fight a protracted war.We are too busy with cable tv, cable internet, video games, and the ballgame to concern ourselves with such ugly things. Our enemies know this. They know you. They know me. They serve a cause so fermently that they are willing to strap 20 pounds of explosives to their chests and blow their bodies to bits to further it. They serve a god who will give them special treatment in heaven for their noble cause. Americans cannot comprehend this. Neither can I.But their determination will not stop when we withdraw from Iraq. This is too ugly a truth for Americans to even face. And let me make thisclear: I agree we should withdraw from Iraq. But not because we cannot win. But because America does not have the will nor the patience to fight a protracted war. If congress WANTED us to win, we would win. But as a twenty-one year veteran and retired Marine, there is one fact of life I know very clearly. Believing equals receiving. If you don’t believe you can win – you absolutely never will.
It’s sad we did not learn the real truth about Vietnam. After the North Vietnamese launched the Tet Offensive, the bloody battles covered America’s mostly black and white television stations. We lost a lot of life. Many vietnamese civilians were killed and displayed on TV. But our military fought back and won the battle, but lost the war. The north has now admitted they were ready to seek a peace treaty following the loss at Tet. Until, that is, the three American television networks broadcast the blood and guts. It was all too ugly for Americans to face. And we lost faith and lost the war.
So let’s get the troops home – tomorrow. I’m sure those who have sworn to Allah to annihilate the United States will just go away. All we have to do is change the channel. Turn on a ballgame and “forget about it.”Where there is a will there is a way. The enemy has the will.
Bring the boys home. Enjoy another Vietnam. Did they all die in vain?
But Gawd bless me, I will fight with all my strength to ensure we NEVER commit American men and women to combat again. Our nation cannot stomach it.
GySgt USMC(Retired)
Kaeb Elgae ,
You cant be saying that OBL is scared of GW Bush are you. Bush does not even think about OBL, but that is why you like him so much isnt it.
Kaeb Elgae confessed his love of Al Qaeda and their causes!
Sorry Kaeb, or whoever you are… I forget that you are unable to think in abstract terms…
You see, this is the mantra that the Republicans have been hurling at the Democrats since 2004… You voted for the war before you voted against the war!! Somehow trying to get the Democrats to admit that they started out voting for the President…
However, it is absolutely correct, and indeed VERY American, to take back a Vote for something, when we find out that the information we thought we were voting on is a Fraud!! Its usually called a re-call!!
And, hopefully, Tonite is the nite for the re-call vote!!!
Repuke | July 17, 2007 at 10:12 PM
Don’t go getting yourself confused. I posted about democrats and Osama. The future buddy. Not the past. You can blame Bush for anything you want.
But the future belongs to Osama and the democratic party.
You speak as this is a game. Osama Bin Laden is God’s direct link on earth. There is NOTHING that scares him. He will party after the liberal vote. He will be put on a pedistal in Arabia and the muslim world. He will have won a great victory.
Don’t turn my post around to be about Bushy (like kids scream, well so-in-so did it).
This is about the future which the liberals will control.
Bad boys are coming. Beyond a shadow of a doubt. There will be massive killings of Americans. Osama has sworn, pledged, and trained his men for it.
Bushy will be history.
What’s ya gonna do?
chas. | July 17, 2007 at 10:17 PMVERY American, to take back a Vote for something, when we find out that the information we thought we were voting on is a Fraud!! Its usually called a re-call!!
ROTFLMAO! YOu think Osama Bin Laden gives a crap about “It’s very American”? You are running from battle with your tails between your legs. Has nothing to do with FRAUD. That is an EXCUSE.Political. Osama thinks GOD. God will strike his enemies.
Psst. Don’t attack the Americans, they are “very AMerican.”
HA HA HA HA
BOOM!~
Thanx for another point of view, but unfortunately you help confirm my position. Once our government (Congress and the president) agree to commit men and women to war, we must ensure they realize that American and others lives will be lost. This commitment cannot be based upon the whims of the day, the political rhetoric, the intelligence documentation. It must be based upon the mutal belief that the war is necessary and sacrifices will have to be made. AT THAT CRITICAL POINT, you must have the majority of the American people behind you. You will NEVER get 100% support from the American people. That is the nature of our great democracy. Historically, during all wars there has been protest (even WWII, the big one).
The decision is then made to go to war. All the brutality, ugliness, blood, death, and destruction which follow have to be acceptable.Otherwise there was no point in going to war. War always involves all these factors – to include accidental friendly and civilian deaths.There is no such thing as a “clean” war. You know the phrase, but few really understand it, and even fewer have experienced it: War is h***.
So now off we go into the wild blue wonder, anchors away, to the halls of Montezuma, and those caissons go rolling along. We are at war.
But it’s not pretty. American’s are tired of it, and like a childs new toy, we now not only want to throw it away.
YOU CAN’T KEEP DOING THAT!!! FOR THE SECOND TIME IN OUR HISTORY, MEN AND WOMEN WILL HAVE DIED BECAUSE AMERICA DOES NOT HAVE THE WILL POWER TO SEE THINGS THROW TO THE END!
The majority of those men and women BELIEVED in our country, BELIEVED in the cause – not only because their nation told them it was “necessary”but because they follow orders. And they are dying even today.
Your response to me included some items to indicate a hindsight – on why we should not have gone to war. Views and opinions popular in the press (but not all factual) which are being used as JUSTIFICATION on withdrawal.
My point was, our nation has changed. We have progressed to a point where we will ALWAYS have a immediate feedback from the media, computer, and on the spot reporting which will show us the blood and guts associated with any war.
In the future, America will not tolerate that picture (there is no right or wrong to it, it’s just a reflection of what war is).
For this reason, we might as well devote our defense resources to defending our own shores. Withdraw from Iraq, Afghan, Germany, Okinawa, Guam, Japan – and bring all our forces home. Reduce our defense budget and use the dollars for other federal programs (it would be too crazy to suggest a tax break). Isolate our concerns to those within our borders.Do not react overseas. Let the EURO nations defend themselves, the Japanese themselves, and stop playing world policeman BECAUSE AMERICAN’S CANNOT TAKE THE HEAT.
Every night I see visions from my past. Of young dedicated, faithful, and loyal Marines who believe in our nation, believe in supporting it – but watching their brothers being KIA. Their young wives and children back home are suffering a separation and worry that is beyond the call of duty, and little noticed.
Don’t commit our troops to war ever again – and withdraw the support for the cause after they have died.
YOU CAN’T KEEP SAYING “OOPS”!!!! Theirfamilies…………………………………………………………..
Good night Chesty Pullerwhereever you are.
Well bush has not been fighting OBL. Iraq has and had nothing to do with 9/11. 10% of Iraqis problems are Al Qaeda. 45% of foreign fighters are Saudis. Al Qaeda recruits trains and plans from Pakistan; you just keep ignoring these facts. I hope the next prez will not as this won has.
Repuke | July 17, 2007 at 10:34 PMWell bush has not been fighting OBL. Iraq has and had nothing to do with 9/11. 10% of Iraqis problems are Al Qaeda. 45% of foreign fighters are Saudis.
HA HA HA HA. There you go again, living in the past. Pointing fingers at Bushy saying, “he did it, he did it!”
That isn’t an important point anymore my man.
Whatcha gonna do? Osama IS coming for you. Throw your numbers around. Did they come from INTEL Reports? Same guys who gave us intel in 2002? Whatever. The bad guys are EVERYwhere. They ARE in Iraq (let me say that again because it seems to fall off the boards), “AL QUEDA IS IN IRAQ TODAY”.
So stop talking about Bushy. Hillary and Vice Obama are in there.
And Osama has his front site appeture lined up with his rear sight windage right on you. With a magazine and ten rounds, locked and loaded. All clear on the firing line. Shooters you may commence shooting on your own dog target.
You think a STRONG statement by Hillary is going to deter God’s representative on EARTH?
Booom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wanna ask one question to those who want us out of Iraq immediately. If we leave Iraq, if we bring our troops home, If we leave Saudia Arabia, If we let the Muslim nations remove Isreal from the face of the earth, do you think that the likes of Al Queada will leave us alone? That they will go away? If they do not, if they attack United States, what will will you do then? Just say you are sorry? Yes, I think that would work just dandy, wouldn’t it? Maybe you would offer a public apology? Send 10 dollars to the victim’s fund? Or cower in fear, afraid that your own countrymen would tear you in pieces for the lies you told and sold?
Defeatism is the key problem here as I posted before. If you think you will not win, you most certainly will loose.Cut and run, quit, whatever term you choose to use, it is why I agree we must get our troops home NOW.
There will NEVER be a just war beyond our borders.
Actually it was the Viet Cong who luanched Tet and after their defeat they were pretty much done as a military force. The NVA had to step in and take over the fight.
I don’t want to be disrespectful A1whwolf, but the NVA was involved with Tet from inception of the plan to include the order of battle from the gitgo. I could cite any number of book sources for you to confirm, but a quick search on the internet will quickly bring you to this same conclusion.
My opinion, from my initial post, is there is no point in committing our men and woman to war ever again outside US borders. The American people cannot stomach it. History repeats itself, and many have compared the “insurgency” in IRAQ to the VC in Vietnam. From that, we conclude we have another war we cannot win on our hands – like Vietnam.
But the history lesson stops there for much of the American public. If they only would read how the enemy uses the media to sway public opinion – to convince us we are losers, maybe they would be able to see through the media hype, and believe we can win.
Tet Offensive:
According to General Vo Nguyen Giap, the communist north’s goals were not purely military but political and diplomatic as well, to take advantage of public opposition to the war in the United States and the weakness of the Saigon Government. They would attack with divisional strength units of the NVA, and one hundred percent mobilization of the Viet Cong (insurgency).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tet_Offensive#Effect_on_the_Viet_Cong_and_North_Vietnam
The people of the South refused to rally to the cause as the NVA leaders had hoped and the whole thing was a military disaster. NVA General Giap was devastated. He felt that the gamble was a total waste.
And then Walter Cronkite, America’s most respected journalist at that time, suggested that America wasn’t winning the war. It was inaccurate, based on a 30 second TV grab and was not much better than stupid as the figures will show. However it created the first significant crack in President Johnson’s belief that he could win both the war and re-election. As it turned out he did neither.
Growing reluctance in America to support a war we weren’t winning, combined with Johnson’s new found reticence and a fresh surge of hope in the leadership of North Viet Nam that these things bought on meant that the beginning of the end had been reached.
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-conflicts-periods/vietnam/tet.htm
STOP BLAMING George Bush. “He lied to us.” “He tricked us.” Suddenly everyone — Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, all of my friends — is claiming to have been a dove who was bamboozled by the cleverness of our president. When “American Idol” drops to a 30% approval rating, I predict you all also will claim that Paula Abdul outsmarted you into watching two hours of karaoke each week.
Most Americans can’t locate Britain on a map, but I’m supposed to believe that back in January of 2003, everyone became an honorary member of the Council on Foreign Relations and followed the details of reports of yellowcake from Niger? I don’t think so. Even now, I’m pretty sure that if the Cheesecake Factory put “Yellowcake from Niger” on the menu, people would order it.
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If all of you did experience some kind of weird, momentary interest in the minutiae of foreign policy around that time, why didn’t it lead you to Google “other scary nations with apocalyptic weapons”? Then maybe you’d have concluded four years ago that possession of — or desire for — nuclear weapons doesn’t trigger automatic invasion. Otherwise, we’d also have invaded Iran, North Korea, Pakistan and Russia. And every nation’s army would be here.
If you are so easily duped, what if Bush had concocted a convincing story of fissile material entering France? Would you have stood idly by as he invaded Paris? Maybe I should have used Venezuela in that hypothetical. Or maybe China. You can see why this game is hard.
Or are you instead arguing that Bush misled you about the ease of turning Iraq into a shiny, happy, minority-protecting, representational democracy? And that you were willing to sacrifice American and Iraqi lives to achieve that goal because you simply cannot live in a world with a brutal dictator like Saddam Hussein? And that you were unaware of Zimbabwe’s Robert Mugabe, North Korea’s Kim Jong Il, Sudan’s Omar Hassan Ahmed Bashir, Uzbekistan’s Islam Karimov or Myanmar’s Than Shwe? Again, signing on to any war should come only after at least one Google search.
Man up. You wanted to invade Iraq. So did 29 Democratic senators. Remember after 9/11 when you put tiny flags on everything you owned? When Bush’s sudden popularity was endangered by his delay in invading Afghanistan? Do you remember how, because of your fear, you wanted to make sure we vanquished all our enemies? And the biggest targetable enemy anyone could muster was a leftover from the early 1990s who invaded a wimpy, tiny nation that sold the U.S. lots of oil? Col. Moammar Kadafi thanks Saddam Hussein every day for that move.
–
YOU WANTED blood, and now you want to forget you wanted blood. In your desperation to be strong, you were weak. America has always been a war-happy nation, and until we take responsibility for that — instead of blaming these bad leaders we somehow randomly keep electing — we’re going to keep killing and being killed unnecessarily.
So here’s the plan. We take war-making out of our hands. From now on, if we want to attack another country, we outsource it. I know we’ve tried this with NATO and the United Nations, and in the end, they’ve had the same problem as the Justice League: If Superman is spoiling for a fight, he doesn’t care whether Aquaman and the fish lobby give him the go-ahead. If not, Mrs. Paul will just be serving Freedom Sticks for a while.
That’s why I’m going with old people. You’d think that cranky people who can no longer be drafted and spend all day watching CNN hoping for something to happen would have us marching on Tehran tomorrow. But they don’t. Every poll has shown that Americans over 65 are the most opposed to the war. So we put the senior citizens in charge of war, let kids head up environmental policy and have middle-aged people run the economy. People 18 to 34 will continue the fine job they’re doing choosing our TV shows.
Give this a chance. Even if it doesn’t prevent any wars, at least it will give the old people something to do instead of asking me if I’m going to have a baby. Seriously. It’s like they’re freaked out that birth control means the world won’t go on after they’re dead.
http://www.latimes.com/news/columnists/la-oe-stein6jul06,1,4323300.column?coll=la-news-columns
That’s damn good stuff there, bubby.
Al-Quida is in Iraq to take advantage of a situation Bush has created. Yes, they’re opportunist. And, they’ve taken the opportunity to blend in with and in some cases help the insurgents, and to help light the keg that bush brought to Iraq. Not to mention it has been a great recruiting op. for bin laden.
Kaeb Elgae confessed his love of Al Qaeda and their causes!
Posted by: Repuke | July 17, 2007 at 10:15 PM
To the contrary, I love the United States of America. As an American fighting man I was willing to give my life in MY nations defense. I spent over two decades in service to this country. Most of it in hot, wet, and muggy climates. Some of it not knowing if I would come home. With a a dedicated wife, who also believed (and still does) in the cause I was fighting for. My children never had a best friend, because they and their military kid friends – moved so much. I spent two years floating around the Indian Ocean and WestPac on amphibious ships – at the ready. I have been scared so many times I take it as normal. I have missed wife and kids birthdays. Holidays, parents death, and a hundred school events – away from my family. Before email. Before computers. We used snail mail. I spent hours crouched down at night in jungle scared of anything that moved. Even myself.
So do not insult me by making up lies. I NEVER posted anything like you have said I did.
I use different tactics to get my point across, but NEVER have I said what you say I did.
Have a nice night. May you sleep well on the safety and peace that Marines and soldiers are dying TONIGHT for. But all in vain, as you do NOT believe there is purpose in it.
Their families love you for it.
Eagle Beak
Question–if the “media” lost the Vietnam war, why did the French lose there and in Algeria, why did the Russians lose in Afghanistan, why did England give up India and Kenya and lose against the United States (twice)and more recently Ireland, why did Mexico prevail against Spain, why did the Dutch have to give up Indonesia, why did Japan lose Korea and Manchuria, why did the Turks lose Arabia.
Media. It’s that damned media.
Just because the soldiers sacrifice doesn’t mean the cause is just.
After all, the other side fights and kills and dies too . . .
//Just because the soldiers sacrifice doesn’t mean the cause is just. After all, the other side fights and kills and dies too . . .Posted by: CapnAmerica//Just because you don’t understand doesn’t mean the soldiers sacrifices are wrong. It just means you don’t understand and your willingness to bash against the President really shows your support for Al Quida. CapTraitor is a closet Al Quida.
“To the contrary, I love the United States of America. As an American fighting man I was willing to give my life in MY nations defense. I spent over two decades in service to this country. Most of it in hot, wet, and muggy climates. Some of it not knowing if I would come home. With a a dedicated wife, who also believed (and still does) in the cause I was fighting for. My children never had a best friend, because they and their military kid friends – moved so much. I spent two years floating around the Indian Ocean and WestPac on amphibious ships – at the ready. I have been scared so many times I take it as normal. I have missed wife and kids birthdays. Holidays, parents death, and a hundred school events – away from my family. Before email. Before computers. We used snail mail. I spent hours crouched down at night in jungle scared of anything that moved. Even myself.
…”
Posted by: Kaeb Elgae | July 17, 2007 at 11:05 PM
OK so this is Republican, republikhan, khan, eagle beak, Kaeb Elgae.
He pretty much admits here to nic switching.
What I find interesting about the trite rhetoric above is this; he claimed to me that he was on a flight crew and that is how he saw so much of the world. Now, riddle me this, what would an airman be doing on an amphibious vessel? How much time do amphibious vessels spend at sea? What would an airman be doing crouched in a jungle.
Repub, you have shot yourself so full of holes it isn’t even funny anymore. Quit the lies man. It defames those that really did serve.
If we did do it for oil, we are stupid. The trillion dollar price tag on this situation (so far) would have been enough to buy every American’s gasoline for years. When you factor in the military expences of looking out for our oil interests, we have been paying $5-$6 bucks a gallon for a decade or more.
I supported the war, even given their were no WMD’s found. I believe Bush would have invaded whether 9/11 occured or not. They were already planning, but I still think I was right in supporting the war. They dropped the ball after we already won. We lost the peace.
It was Rumsfield’s fault, not Bush, but Bush held onto that lame idiot for YEARS AND YEARS after the 1st sign of a problem began. It could have been turned around 5-6 months into the problem, now it can’t.
Many Generals mysteriously retired shortly after the invasion. If you really want the straight scoop on the situation, I high recommend researching what retired General Zinni had to say. He is a brilliant man! I’d like to see him run for President, but he won’t. Who could blame him, who would want to inherit this mess!
All we can do now is leave.
I’m glad that SANE Republicans are beginning to wake up.
Folks this is NUTS. I mean they are now resorting to the Tinkerbell rhetoric! If we just WANT to “win” (we already did) in Iraq, why that’ll be enough! Second star to the right andstraight on til morning!
Remember why bin Laden said he attacked? It was because of an American presence in Saudi Arabia. Our continued presence in Iraq is not squelching terrorism. It is PROPOGATING it.I got a better idea.
The oldest strategy in the book. “Let’s you and him fight”.
Let Iran and Turkey stabilize Iraq.
JR
Can you clear out your e-mail box?
Everything I send you bounces, dude . . .