“We have made progress, steady progress, in restoring hope in a nation beaten down by decades of tyranny.” — President Bush, July 2003 (160 total U.S. troops lost).
“We’re making really good progress.” — Bush again, October 2003 (230 troops lost).
“We’re making progress.” — April 2004 (700 troops lost).
“We’re making good progress in Iraq.” — April 2005 (1,500 troops lost).
“Iraqis are making inspiring progress.” — November 2005 (2,000 troops lost).
“We’re making progress on all fronts.” — May 2006 (2,400 troops lost).
“There’s some measurable progress.” — At last Thursday’s news conference (3,600 troops lost).
As New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof asked, “Do we really want to continue making this kind of inspiring progress for the next 10 years?”
Posted by Rhonda Holman
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- donndublin on Open thread 11/24
- DavidB on Open thread 11/24
- parkay on Open thread 11/24
- donndublin on Open thread 11/24
- parkay on Open thread 11/24
- Pleefer on Open thread 11/24
- Pleefer on Open thread 11/24
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/24
- donndublin on Open thread 11/24
- donndublin on Open thread 11/24
147 Comments
If the progress of any war is to be measured by the number of soldiers killed, we would have:
Quit fighting WWII on December 7, 1941 – 408,306 Americans killed in WWII with 2,388 killed on day one.
We would have quit fighting in Korea in 1951 – 54,246 killed in this war.
We would have quit fighting in Vietnam in the 1960’s – 58,219 killed in this war.
We would have quit after the Tet Offensive in Vietnam in 1968 – 7,040 Americans killed in one battle of the Vietnam war.
Yes war, any war, has a high price and soldiers are killed in war.
Freedom in this world is not free, and perhaps JFK said it best:
“Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of liberty”.
That’s gotta be the best pic of Bush I’ve seen in a long time.
LOL!
That’s funny, Joe. They only have a thousand pics, they come up with that one. The nose wiper.
That was probably the only one fit for printing! The guy is a doofus.
Bush’s Hitler impersonation.
“We would have quit fighting in Vietnam in the 1960’s – 58,219 killed in this war.”
Which is exactly what we ought to have done.
As to WWII, we were attacked first. We had no choice but to fight on to the end. At the International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg, one of the counts in the indictment against the Nazi leaders was “Waging aggressive war.”
Isn’t it odd? That’s exactly what Bush did in invading a nation that hadn’t attacked us.
An observation.
The ongoing reports of US military people killed in Iraq is like Chinese water torture.
It is remarkable that we were able to invade Iraq with so little loss of American life. The predictions of the critics were in the tens of thousands. Yet it is the steady reports of one or two or four a day, that really influences Americans and turns them against the war effort; more than a much larger number in a shorter time period.
That and the huge financial cost.
Impeach the lying liars.
Even Bush can’t stand the smell of the his administration and the years of Republican domination!
Good…good…good!
The Republicans are melting down as quickly as Republican/***CON***.
Guiliani, Brownback, McCain, and Romney are all history.
Clinton/Obama for the next 16 years!!!!
Thanks Rhonda Holman for spreading your hatred and using death statistics as your editorial talking points.
There is not one positive thing you can say about the military am I right? You hate all military and like to remind those who are proud of their men and women who have served and have lost their lives as some sort of nut jobs who don’t deserve for those they lost to be treated with respect.
You spitting on the graves of these men and women for political purposes only. You don’t care about them, you only are concerned if you can win some sort of artificial political points.
The American people are growing tired of the hatred and the meanness of the left. There will be a price to pay for this hatred and meanness in 2009.
Once again the left be asking themselves what happened and once again they will not realize that they (the left) with their hate speech and mean spirited debate are their own worst enemy.
He’s melting….he’s melting….he’s mmmmeeeellllttttiiiinnnnggggg!!!!!
Good…good…good!
The Republicans are melting down as quickly as Republican/***CON***.
Guiliani, Brownback, McCain, and Romney are all history.
Clinton/Obama for the next 16 years!!!!
I am sooooooooo meean!
The whining pussies complain about meanness but they won’t go fight their own slimey war.
I think that prettry much means you won’t support the troops by offering your own life in a lost cause.
You cowards are in good company, Bush and Cheney’s kids won’t risk their lives either!
Cheney would need to change one requirement of the military to let at least one of his daughters to join the military… Bush’s daughters dont have a clue…
This war in Iraq is different. Our American troops are dying for a people that do not want the freedoms that we belive in, they want the freedom to impose their particular Islamic belief of all of the other people of Iraq. Iraq does not want our type of democracy. They want a society that operates under Islamic Law. You know, kind of like what the religious right wants in America. They want the reigious war that they now have. Saddam kept the lid on Iraq for years until we killed him. There is no honor in this war; their is no gain for anyone including the Iraqis. Every since the Second World War, there has only been one war that was justified and that was the Gulf War. Even if Iraq had long standing claims against Kuwait, both as to the establishment of the border and a belief that Kuwait was taking oil from under Iraq land, Saddam was wrong in his invasion of Kuwait. It was right that America protected Kuwait. But, even if that war was just, it is still hard to accept that Americans died there. It cannot ever be acceptable that Americans have (and more will) died in Iraq for a war without justification.
The American people are growing tired of the hatred and the meanness of the left. There will be a price to pay for this hatred and meanness in 2009.
Once again the left be asking themselves what happened and once again they will not realize that they (the left) with their hate speech and mean spirited debate are their own worst enemy.
Posted by: Kansas
The politics of hate was started by those Christian Conservative Republicans in 1994 with the Contract ON America. That sorry bunch was so obsessed with Bill Clinton’s personal life that they spent millions of dollars to find anything on Bill Clinton. And the only thing they came up with was Monica Lewinski.
This sorry bunch of politicians, under the Bush Administration, has been involved in the most outlandish sex scandals, lobbyist scandals (Jack Abramhoff) and let’s not forget Mark Foley who was perusing the Internet for young males while he was on the Committee supposedly fighting such activity.
This so-called bunch of Christian Conservtive Republicans brought corruption in politics to a new low. What makes me angry, as a Christian, is that this bunch did all their evil while preaching down to the rest of us that they, and only they, had the one true God.
I only hope and pray there is a speciall Hell for these people ande all the people that supported, and still support to this day. I wonder what God really thinks about these liars?
Kansas,
“Hate speech?” “Mean spirited debate?” Don’t have much of a taste for facts, do you, “Kansas?”
When facts run against your ideological position, “Kansas,” it would seem your only recourse is to try to kill the messenger. And to issue emotional appeals and threats to those who dare to mention facts.
And actually, “Kansas,” I’m not my “own worst enemy.” My worst enemy is the same as yours, though you don’t realize it: the lying, cheating, unconstitutional Bush Administration.
I think the difficulty of Muslim and a Constitutional government have is that the U.S. Constitution was formed by men with a Christian mindset and principles.
The Muslim principles although similar in some respects is so different that it will never succeed in the path as our government was formed.
The Constitutional model in Turkey which is influenced by Muslim belief, but is largely secular in its principles.
Perhaps the Iraqis will get a handle on the idea of Democracy and then again maybe not. They are more inclined to use guidance from their particular sects (sunni/shiite) than guidance from a Constitutional government.
I predict about another year in Iraq and then the U.S. government will withdraw as the belief system of the Muslim is too separated from the Western model.
However, with that said, as oil is phased out as an energy source, the powers in the Middle East will become less relevant in the affairs of the world.
Kansas – what planet do you live on? Oil is the main reason we are in Iraq. Why do you think Bush did not go after Bin Laden in Afghanistan or Pakistan? No oil is there for the taking.
Bush and Cheney are both oil men and as long as those two are in power, and all their supporters, the US will never get off the Middle East oil.
We need real moral leadership in America and I don’t see a drop of that in the Republicans.
Where have all the “Terrorists” gone? Bushco has worn-out that propaganda tool and replace with a “Polished-up al-Qaida”
And “al-Qaida is killing Americans” according to Joe Lieberman.
“They hate Democracy and Freedom”
The “Propaganda Surge” is in fool-swing.
Wow: No More “Terrorists”
I, too am intrigued by this amusing picture of bush. It reminds me of sniffing my finger after a round of heavy petting, back in my high school days….
ICK ICK ICK ICK!
CF2K responded to the injury-faking-welfare-collecting-false-military-service-claiming-serial nicswitching-lying-and-dissembling-one without realizing it had switched names again! ICK!
OUT DAMNED SPOT!
CF2K — One could wonder WHY the troll has changed nics so much as to look like the Six Faces of Eve.. But that could be an exercise in futility…
As you said: ICK ICK ICK!!
The main point in this piece is well-made and fundamental: Bush has NO credibility anymore. (Not that he ever had very much, but that is another story.)
Why does the media even bother to quote his lies anymore? His statements are nonsensical. He lives in a bubble, along with Cheney and all his pundit, war-wimp friends in the political and media realm.
Make that along with his RICH pundit and political war wimp friends in the political and media realm..
Rich man’s war – poor man’s fight.
We need to make Ron Paul electable. The rest will give this country to Israel.
Israel’s two favorites are Giuliani and Hillary.
Each have been keynote speakers for AIPAC and promised to deliver the farm.
lhg quoted JFK,
“Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of liberty”.
That was the president who authorized the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion, that led Castro to install nuclear-tipped missiles aimed at the US of A. The president who inexplicably took up France’s failed attempt to control Vietnam, and basically trashed the American economy, outside the military industrial complex.
Here is what George Washington said, in his farewell address:
The West derives from the East supplies requisite to its growth and comfort, and, what is perhaps of still greater consequence, it must of necessity owe the secure enjoyment of indispensable outlets for its own productions to the weight, influence, and the future maritime strength of the Atlantic side of the Union, directed by an indissoluble community of interest as one nation. Any other tenure by which the West can hold this essential advantage, whether derived from its own separate strength, or from an apostate and unnatural connection with any foreign power, must be intrinsically precarious.
While, then, every part of our country thus feels an immediate and particular interest in union, all the parts combined cannot fail to find in the united mass of means and efforts greater strength, greater resource, proportionably greater security from external danger, a less frequent interruption of their peace by foreign nations; and, what is of inestimable value, they must derive from union an exemption from those broils and wars between themselves, which so frequently afflict neighboring countries not tied together by the same governments, which their own rival ships alone would be sufficient to produce, but which opposite foreign alliances, attachments, and intrigues would stimulate and embitter. Hence, likewise, they will avoid the necessity of those overgrown military establishments which, under any form of government, are inauspicious to liberty, and which are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty.
Will it not be their wisdom to rely for the preservation of these advantages on the Union by which they were procured ? Will they not henceforth be deaf to those advisers, if such there are, who would sever them from their brethren and connect them with aliens?
Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight), the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.
It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.
As avenues to foreign influence in innumerable ways, such attachments are particularly alarming to the truly enlightened and independent patriot. How many opportunities do they afford to tamper with domestic factions, to practice the arts of seduction, to mislead public opinion, to influence or awe the public councils 7 Such an attachment of a small or weak towards a great and powerful nation dooms the former to be the satellite of the latter.
Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government.
The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible.
It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements.———–Who are you going to trust? JFK, LBJ, RMN, GWB–or George Washington? JFK, assassinated. LBJ didn’t run in 68 because he was discredited. RMN, resigned rather than be impeached, convicted and removed from office? GWB, who lost two elections, but got placed into office through voter fraud? Or George Washington. Urged to run for a third term, a slam dunk projected winner. But he didn’t want to be an “imperial president”. Don’t ask me why, but I trust Mr. Washington’s judgment.
The Enemy is within. They have been operating. And if could see those AIPAC files, the treason would amaze you.
If we had a functioning FBI, we’d have those files and a with functioning AG, we’d have the indictments of congressional members and their staff.
Hey MPS – didn’t George Washington also own slaves? So, let’s be honest here – the man did not really believe in freedom for all, did he? And isn’t that the basis of our Constitution?
You Zionist piece of shit, if you want to trash America because slavery was the order of the day, you’ll find a better reason; such as “have you murdered your Palestinian Today?…..asshole
Here’s Amnesty International on Israeli slave-trading today { along with being rated Second Tier on Slave-trading with our own State Department…..asshole
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/engMDE150242000
Why must everything you say be about Israel? I was simply questioning the validity of following everything George Washington said. I know slavery was the order of the day, but that was not my point.
The point was, if you would care to re-read my posting, is that a slave owner is hardly the person to ask about freedom for all as our Constitution is based on.
So you might want to refrain yourself from calling me the asshole because I was not trashing America by my comment.
You need to get a grip.
From the picture of Bush on this blog, even he smells the stench of lies as he delivers his war speeches.
Ok Dems, persuant to the post from MPS attacking JFK:
The Dems can no longer use JFK as the model of a good President.
Never mention JFK again.
Personal attacks on Bush libs? Is that all you have?
But it’s NOT ok to launch a personal attack on a Lib? Right.
I can’t wait to watch the Dem National convention next year.
There are only 2 things the Dems are FOR, and given the history of Dem Congresses in the past – even these 2 promises are out right lies!
98% will be “I hate Bush” and “Bush Lied”, and “Everything including global warming is Bush’s fault!”
2% will involve promises for 1)pulling out of Iraq and 2)spending more taxpayers’s dollars and ruining healthcare with the Hillary Care plan.
The Dem convention will surely warm the “hate base” of the Dem Party. They ain’t got nothing else to talk about!
Our soldiers are dying and being maimed in Israel’s war, along with draining billions out of our Treasury.
As long as the asshole Zionists are running that country, things will not change and their greed will send us into Atomic War.
Nothing is more important than to stop that from happening, no matter how much you’d like to change the subject.
You assholes are so arrogant…you give no voice to the good Jews who want peace, who do not want to use peace as a propaganda tool.
{ “The Peace Process” which never results in any progress for peace }.
Kansas, our beef is not with the military nor the soliders fighting this war. We love them, they are our families and friends. So stop equating criticism of the war and Bush with the military, they are not one in the same.
What is wrong with wanting our soldiers to fight wars that have a legitimate purpose? Why are we angry when someone dies from a murder, but not when they risked their lives to save another human being? Are they both not equally dead? I think you understand the point I’m trying to make. Our soldiers are dying for no good reason.
We ARE angry about this administration, that is where the hatred stems. We feel that this president is doing everything in his power to endanger our country from the inside and out.
Do you not believe in your nation enough to get angry about the dismantling of our constitution, our sharing of powers, the corruption and cronyism?
This is so much more than just a mere disagreement over policy. I don’t remember ever loathing nor fearing a president like I do this one- no republican has evoked these kind of feelings from me ever- not even his father. Bush and supporters are the enemy. The enemy of our own country. And the rest of the world feels the same.
No, the Iraqis need to stand up for their own now. Our soldiers don’t need to die in their own civil war that we shouldn’t have started in the first place.
Asshole trashes American, then, as if by magic, says he isn’t, and expects us to think that his trashing isn’t trashing.
There is just no end to these Zionist assholes, but that’s why the world, and half their own people, hate their guts.
The Dem convention will surely warm the “hate base” of the Dem Party. They ain’t got nothing else to talk about!
Posted by: lhg
You must have missed the 2006 election when Republicans had their butts handed to them. You put down the Democrats but I haven’t seen any leadership from the Republicans unless you count the multiple scandals that have been allowed under the Bush regime. Wasn’t Bush the one that promised to restore honesty and integrity to the White House? Wasn’t Bush the one that promised to capture Bin Laden and now he does not even think about the man that killed 3,000+ at 9/11? Is this really the party leadership you think is so superior to the Democrats.
The 2008 election will not be about who hates Bush. It will be about who begins to take our country back from the fat cats who are getting rich off this war mongering and putting our country first for a change!
I could care less about the welfare of Iraqis when our country needs its infrastructure fixed, our schools need restructured to once again start educating our young people and not dumbing them down by needless No Child Left Behind crap.
I do not envy the person that wins the White House in 2008. that person will have the almost unattainable task of restoring the US to greatness again – in spite of what Republicans have done to destroy it since 1994 when the first wave of so-called Christian Conservative Republicans who were so obsessed about Bill Clinton’s sex life.
Republicans had TOTAL control for the last six years and what has it brought us. This is not about Democrats hating Bush (although well deserved). this is about the future of our country.
Asshole trashes American, then, as if by magic, says he isn’t, and expects us to think that his trashing isn’t trashing.
There is just no end to these Zionist assholes, but that’s why the world, and half their own people, hate their guts.
Posted by: Ed Friedemann
Unlike you, I don’t believe the Jews are the source of all the problems in the world. Unlike you, I did not trash America by stating that George Washington had slaves.
what is your problem? Do you not comprehend what you read?
They can say anything which fits the moment. Just words.
P-Mom too many weird nics here… walk on by!!!
No time to waste trying to use logic with a mind that is so closed. Good thing my vote cancels out yours.
I didn’t say “the Jews,” I said the “Zionists” { notice how he’s changing direction to bring-up another subject }.
Ed… I amnot at all sure that some of the folks on this Blog know what the “zionists” actually are… Maybe a reasonable explanation of the background and evolution of the Zionist movement would be helpful for all to see…
Jews have many sects within their religion, and there is nothing “wrong” with the Jewish Religion.
I noticed that the instance of genius among Jews may be higher than that of other groups IE; Einstein, Freud, Teller, and let’s not leave out Spielberg…
Zionists appear to be secular { not religious } and generally pragmatic, which seems to be where the trouble starts.
Polls indicate that most American Jews do not relate to Israel or approve in how it’s being run.
But sadly, American Jews are still picked-on for nothing more than being Jewish.
Thank you Ed…
there is no progress and the only ones who have benefitted from this oil war have been bushy and cheney and friends like Halliburton and KBR
is bush sniffing coke off that finger?
why not…he breaks every other law
that could be one speculation, leave… as good as any, i guess..
“The American people are growing tired of the hatred and the meanness of the left. There will be a price to pay for this hatred and meanness in 2009.”
Yeah right, then how come more and more Americans are coming over to the way of thinking of that hatred and meanness left.
Another poster was right, have you forgotten the “thumping” the neo-cons took in the “06 election? Baby, that’s just the beginning.
I think what pisses Outlander, Republican, and Fleetwood off most is they know that Bush has cost their party everything.
We Libs WILL win and hold on to our power for 16 + years and they can’t stand it.
“Point on Mr. Businessman…you can’t dress like me…one day your kind will rot and die…I’m going to wave MY freak flag high!”
I agree KC Dude… As for ME, I am just beginning to fight back all of the hate and meanness of the Right since 1994… Well, actually, since Reagan… but more recently, 1994…
President Jeb Bush, State of the Union, January 2012:
“Given the progress the Iraqi leadership has made, in a very short time we will begin withdrawing troops.”
If this is “progress” I’d sure hate to see “regress”
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article2766040.ece
Rush says, “the Dems have nothing to offer but hate,” and a million ditto heads say, “the Dems have nothing to offer but hate,” ignoring the obvious fact that the most vicious hate mongers have always been–and are now–the right-wing.
Submitted for your approval, a British journalists sneaks aboard a CON cruise. Here’re some excerpts:
The Iraq war has been an amazing success, global warming is just a myth – and as for Guantanamo Bay, it’s practically a holiday camp… The annual cruise organised by the ‘National Review’, mouthpiece of right-wing America, is a parallel universe populated by straight-talking, gun-toting, God-fearing Republicans.By Johann HariPublished: 13 July 2007I am standing waist-deep in the Pacific Ocean, both chilling and burning, indulging in the polite chit-chat beloved by vacationing Americans. A sweet elderly lady from Los Angeles is sitting on the rocks nearby, telling me dreamily about her son. “Is he your only child?” I ask. “Yes,” she says. “Do you have a child back in England?” she asks. No, I say. Her face darkens. “You’d better start,” she says. “The Muslims are breeding. Soon, they’ll have the whole of Europe.”
I am getting used to these moments – when gentle holiday geniality bleeds into… what? I lie on the beach with Hillary-Ann, a chatty, scatty 35-year-old Californian designer. As she explains the perils of Republican dating, my mind drifts, watching the gentle tide. When I hear her say, ” Of course, we need to execute some of these people,” I wake up. Who do we need to execute? She runs her fingers through the sand lazily. “A few of these prominent liberals who are trying to demoralise the country,” she says. “Just take a couple of these anti-war people off to the gas chamber for treason to show, if you try to bring down America at a time of war, that’s what you’ll get.” She squints at the sun and smiles. ” Then things’ll change.”
. . . .
To my left, I find a middle-aged Floridian with a neat beard. To my right are two elderly New Yorkers who look and sound like late-era Dorothy Parkers, minus the alcohol poisoning. They live on Park Avenue, they explain in precise Northern tones. “You must live near the UN building,” the Floridian says to one of the New York ladies after the entree is served. Yes, she responds, shaking her head wearily. “They should suicide-bomb that place,” he says. They all chuckle gently. How did that happen? How do you go from sweet to suicide-bomb in six seconds?
. . . .
Podhoretz and Buckley now inhabit opposite poles of post-September 11 American conservatism, and they stare at wholly different Iraqs. Podhoretz is the Brooklyn-born, street-fighting kid who travelled through a long phase of left-liberalism to a pugilistic belief in America’s power to redeem the world, one bomb at a time. Today, he is a bristling grey ball of aggression, here to declare that the Iraq war has been “an amazing success.” He waves his fist and declaims: “There were WMD, and they were shipped to Syria … This picture of a country in total chaos with no security is false. It has been a triumph. It couldn’t have gone better.” He wants more wars, and fast. He is “certain” Bush will bomb Iran, and ” thank God” for that.
. . . .
The familiar routine of the dinners – first the getting-to-know-you chit-chat, then some light conversational fascism – is accelerating. Tonight there is explicit praise for a fascist dictator before the entree has arrived. I drop into the conversation the news that there are moves in Germany to have Donald Rumsfeld extradited to face torture charges.
A red-faced man who looks like an egg with a moustache glued on grumbles, “If the Germans think they can take responsibility for the world, I don’t care about German courts. Bomb them.” I begin to witter on about the Pinochet precedent, and Kate snaps, “Treating Don Rumsfeld like Pinochet is disgusting.” Egg Man pounds his fist on the table: ” Treating Pinochet like that is disgusting. Pinochet is a hero. He saved Chile.”
“Exactly,” adds Jim. “And he privatised social security.”
The table nods solemnly . . .
Here’s one of the best quotes from the cruise from well-known hard right Dinesh D’Souza:
There is something strange about this discussion, and it takes me a few moments to realise exactly what it is. All the tropes that conservatives usually deny in public – that Iraq is another Vietnam, that Bush is fighting a class war on behalf of the rich – are embraced on this shining ship in the middle of the ocean. Yes, they concede, we are fighting another Vietnam; and this time we won’t let the weak-kneed liberals lose it. “It’s customary to say we lost the Vietnam war, but who’s ‘we’?” the writer Dinesh D’Souza asks angrily. “The left won by demanding America’s humiliation.” On this ship, there are no Viet Cong, no three million dead. There is only liberal treachery. Yes, D’Souza says, in a swift shift to domestic politics, “of course” Republican politics is “about class. Republicans are the party of winners, Democrats are the party of losers.”
You know the funny thing is, by repeating the phrase over and over, the stupidity of it is made even more obvious.
Thanks, cramit.
** MELTDOWN **Warning** MELTDOWN **
Fred Kagan on Fox News today said ”
Hume: A clear distinction is made by war critics between the operations against al Qaeda–targeted at al Qaeda-and what they describe as getting in the middle of a civil war and that presumably means their efforts to shut down the Shi’ite death squads and the other elements of sectarian violence, purely sectarian violence. What is your view of that distinction? And what percentage of the trouble that’s now being noticed in Iraq is being caused by the one or the other?
Kagan:I don’t think you can talk about percentages because people are trying to make a false dichotomy here. The reason why we have a civil war in Iraq……”
Then Bill Kristol tells Fox New Sunday that “We’re not in a civil war.”
Are you neo-cons that get your news from Fox a little confused?
National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) Jan. 2007
Prospects for Iraq’s Stability: AChallenging Road Ahead
The Intelligence Community judges that the term “civil war” does not adequately capture the complexity of the conflict in Iraq, which includes extensive Shia-on-Shia violence, al-Qa’ida and Sunni insurgent attacks on Coalition forces, and widespreadcriminally motivated violence. Nonetheless, the term “civil war” accurately describes key elements of the Iraqi conflict, including the hardening of ethno- sectarian identities, a sea change in the character of the violence, ethno-sectarian mobilization, and population displacements.
Sounds like Civil War to me, KC Dude!!
BAGHDAD— Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki told reporters Saturday that the Iraqi army and police were capable of maintaining security when American troops leave.
BAGHDAD — Iraq’s prime minister was misunderstood when he said the Americans could leave “any time they want” an aide said Sunday.
OOPS!!!!!!
Maliki is probably correct in a certain sense. Iraqi troops will have more latitude to be brutal and not have to get permission from some General sitting in Florida before they invade a house.
If the American or International Press makes a big deal about it, they can just deny it or jail the reporter.
William Kristol signed the PNAC preface { the plan which ended us up in Iraq }.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
Bill Kristol is only interested in lining his own pockets at others’ expense. He doesn’t care about the PNAC – he just wants the money it will bring him.
Maliki is playing both sides of the fence in Iraq. He is playing Bush for the fool (he has the perfect guy for that role). Malaki won’t do anything because the Iraqi government is still going on their vacation. Nothing will be done until the US soldiers are out of Iraq. I say let’s leave and let the street rats fight it out amongst themselves just as they have been doing for thousands of years.
Bush and Cheney won’t do that because the oil is still up for grabs and they want to be there to steal it first.
Interesting Website Ed Friedmann. From that WebSite what the Iraqi leader had to say about the link of Al Qaeda and Iraq.
MEMORANDUM TO: OPINION LEADERS
FROM: DANIEL MCKIVERGAN, Deputy Director
SUBJECT: Allawi on Iraq and al Qaeda
I would like to draw your attention to a May 23, 2005 Agence France-Presse (AFP) article, “Al-Qaeda Number Two Visited Saddam’s Iraq: Former PM.” AFP reported on a recent interview that former Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi gave to the Saudi newspaper Al-Hayat. According to Allawi, bin Ladin’s top lieutenant, Ayman al-Zawahiri, visited Baghdad in September 1999, and al-Zarqawi entered Iraq “probably around the same time,” “began to set up cells,” and also “forged links with Ansar al-Islam.” AFP further reported:
Allawi, a former Baathist dissident who lived in exile at the time, said he had “confirmation” of Zawahiri’s visit to Iraq and that the fugitive Egyptian Islamist had entered “under an assumed name” during the ninth Islamic popular congress held in Baghdad in September 1999. “Islamists who led terrorist networks in the world” met on the sidelines of the congress, he said. Allawi said Saddam’s regime maintained contacts with militant groups via “one Faruk Hijazi, who was eventually named ambassador to Turkey and then to a (North African) country.” He said Hijazi was “arrested after the fall of Saddam’s regime (in April 2003) while trying to infiltrate into Iraqi territory.”
Allawi’s comments, if accurate, build upon the work of the September 11 Commission Report, which stated:
In March 1998, after Bin Ladin’s public fatwa against the United States, two al Qaeda members reportedly went to Iraq to meet with Iraqi intelligence. In July, an Iraqi delegation traveled to Afghanistan to meet first with the Taliban and then with Bin Ladin. Sources reported that one, or perhaps both, of these meetings was apparently arranged through Bin Ladin’s Egyptian deputy, Zawahiri, who had ties of his own to the Iraqis.
Similar meetings between Iraqi officials and Bin Ladin or his aides may have occurred in 1999 during a period of some reported strains with the Taliban (p. 66).
While the report also stated that “to date we have seen no evidence that these or the earlier contacts ever developed into a collaborative operational relationship,” commission chairman Thomas Kean was quick to note that “there was no question in our minds that there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda.” Allawi’s remarks, should they hold up to scrutiny, would suggest a more substantial relationship between Iraq and terror groups than is usually portrayed in the major media.”
This and 50 cents will buy you a phone call.
I don’t trust anything from any Iraqi – why do you?
isn’t this guy the one Bush paid millions to for his ‘intelligence’? That reason alone, I don’t trust one word he says. If I was being paid millions of dollars and had no conscience, I’d tell Bush exactly what he wanted to hear too. Those without consciences do alot of things, Bush included.
And you believe that garbage?
Or, you want to believe that garbage?
I said it was interesting Ed Friedmann. If you look at the last sentence about holding up to scrutiny is key to comprehending the article.
Sorry ***CON***, as Bush has said, that’s old news. The next 16 + years belong to us libs thanks to your boy Bush.
‘Fatuous Nonsense of the Week Award goes to Bill Kristol’http://scoop.epluribusmedia.org/story/2007/7/15/174036/164
Over and Over and Over again, the Dems preach the Bush hatred.
What is it exactly, I mean EXACTLY, the Dems are for?
Oh, and one thing y’all don’t realize, many conservatives and many Republicans voted for Dems in 2006. Why?
It wasn’t a vote against Iraq. It was a vote against Republicans because they failed to uphold the conservative agenda. The Republicans increased spending and pretended to be Democrats in order to buy everyone’s vote.
Guess what? The conservatives cannot be bought. We’re not as cheap as the Libs. Y’all take pride in dependency. Conservatives take pride in being able to take care of ourselves.
2006 was a one-time shot for all ya Dems.
Dance in the streets for 18 more months, that’s all ya have left to actually DO something, besides hold meaningless hearings on the past.
This country is facing the largest Fiscal crisis in its history, and neither Dems or Repubs are addressing that.
When America incurs a $30 Trillion National Debt, your Socialism will end.
Why? Cause working people ain’t gonna work for you lazy SOB’s anymore.
We’ll have enough to retire on and move out of the US if we want to avoid the Greatest Depression this country has ever seen.
Have a nice day Libs. Y’all are building the nest to poverty for all of America. And all the working people you have been living off of for years, are NOT gonna pay for you anymore.
Your gravy train is almost ended.
Interesting cosmo…
“First, no second terrorist attack on U.S. soil — not something we could have taken for granted.”
What was the whole “anthrax in the mail” business? Now we know that it was NOT the work of a terrorist?
I suppose the rumors are true then that it was Rove/Cheney silencing/warning the critics of Bush’s Iraq invasion plans.
WE BE THERE in Iraq already guys, what ya Dems gonna do about it?
ABSOLUTELY NUTHIN! SAY IT AGAIN! ABSOLUTELY NUTHIN!
Dang, we’ll never move FORWARD in America if all ya Libs wanta just Btich about the past!
Here’s a secret, shhhhhhhhhhhhh,don’t tell anyone, ok?
George W. Bush is NOT going to be the President after 2008.
What y’all gonna do then?
I can see it now, 2011, Hillary Clinton has been in office for 3 years and Al Queda Nukes takes out KCMO and Chicago.
Clinton says, “Well it was all George Bush’s fault!”
10 years from now y’all will be fixated on GW as the Social Security/Medicare crisis reaches its peak.
Oh, and GW is the only President to push for Social Security reform since Jimmy Carter.
Mommy look….=> that man is melting!
Hush dear, it’s just Republican and he can’t take it anymore.
Happy, do you have anything intelligent to say? If not, you will get no more response from me, though whatever garbage you post will not keep me from posting the truth that you hate to see.
YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
From the Guardianhttp://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/15/bush-is-not-going-t...
‘Bush is not going to leave office with Iran still in limbo.’
In a story entitled “Cheney pushes Bush to act on Iran,” The Guardian writes that Cheney may be winning the debate inside the White House over how to confront Iran:
The balance in the internal White House debate over Iran has shifted back in favour of military action before President George Bush leaves office in 18 months, the Guardian has learned.
The shift follows an internal review involving the White House, the Pentagon and the state department over the last month. Although the Bush administration is in deep trouble over Iraq, it remains focused on Iran. A well-placed source in Washington said: “Bush is not going to leave office with Iran still in limbo.”
I guess Bush should just ignore the building threat in Iran and leave it for the next President to solve.
That’s what Clinton did.
My Pet Goat…
walking right on by
Kansas is delusional if he thinks Conservatives are the the only righteous of the voters. It was this bunch of Christian Conservatives that have brought corruption in politics to a new low. And with all the sex scandals and lobbyist scandals (Jack Abramhoff) and let’s not forget Mark Foley – the Internet cruiser for young male interns.
What a bunch of liars and thieves this bunch is and Kansas thinks they are the only voters who are righteous. Yeah right.
George W. Bush claims to be a Christian Conservative because, after all, God told Pat Robertson that he wanted Bush to be president. All these people are as crazy as sewer rats.
What cost the Republicans the 2006 election was the direction Bush has taken our country. The majority of the voters are against Bush’s war for oil and they quite handily turned out everyone who was lined up with their beloved emperor George.
It has nothing to do with conservatives or liberals. People are tired of being lied to time and time again.
The only person building the threat to Iran is George W. Bush.
George W. needs to take care of his own messes but he will be leaving it for a Democrat to clean up – like always.
Sewer rats aren’t particularly crazy. But I agree that sewer rat is an apropriate metaphor.
“What cost the Republicans the 2006 election was the direction Bush has taken our country. The majority of the voters are against Bush’s war for oil and they quite handily turned out everyone who was lined up with their beloved emperor George.” Posted by: fred | July 15, 2007 at 09:12 PM
They were elected by swing votes because they promised to “end the war.”
How’s that impotent Democratic Congress working out for ya?
Do you think the same voters will believe them again?
I think not.
Our American troops are dying for a people that do not want the freedoms that we belive inPosted by: thinkfirst | July 15, 2007 at 09:10 AM
You really don’t have a clue do you?You don’t believe in your own country’s Constitution if this is your opinion.You don’t deserve the freedoms you do have.
Kansas – what planet do you live on? Oil is the main reason we are in Iraq. Why do you think Bush did not go after Bin Laden in Afghanistan or Pakistan? No oil is there for the taking.
Bush and Cheney are both oil men and as long as those two are in power, and all their supporters, the US will never get off the Middle East oil.
We need real moral leadership in America and I don’t see a drop of that in the Republicans.
Posted by: fred | July 15, 2007 at 09:30 AM
Where do you get supplies for your covered wagon and horses in Wichita?
Its all on sale at Wild West World!
Sorry ***CON***, as Bush has said, that’s old news. The next 16 + years belong to us libs thanks to your boy Bush.
Posted by: happy | July 15, 2007 at 08:05 PM
If there is any truth to your prediction of liberal rule in our Congress and Executive Branch, I give it 8 max before Armageddon.
Its all on sale at Wild West World!
Posted by: happy | July 15, 2007 at 09:22 PM
That’s actually pretty funny.
If all it takes is 8 years to Armageddon under us Libs then we will have the Christian vote for sure!
to all you RW bush lovers, read what this REAL SOLDIER has to say…
Soldier – I challenge anybody in Congress to do my rotation
A soldier puts up a challenge to Congress and the pResident:
Spc. Vassell, 2nd Platoon Apache Company Strykers:
I challenge anybody in Congress to do my rotation. They don’t have to do anything, just come hang out with me and go home at the times I go home. And come stay here fifteen months with me.
Spc. Vassell, 2nd Platoon Apache Company Strykers:
We’re supposed to be on the way home right now. We were supposed to be flying home in six days. Six days. But because we have people up there in Congress with the brain of a two-year old who don’t know what they’re doing. They don’t experience it. I, I challenge the President or whoever has us here for fifteen months to ride along, alongside me. I’ll do another fifteen months if he comes out here and rides along with me every day for fifteen months. I’ll do fifteen more months. They don’t even have to pay me extra. I just want him to come out here and ride with me another fifteen months.
The politicians all sit there in their cushy offices or their comfy little places on the floor of the House, The Senate, and in the White House. They do not have a clue what they are doing to the soldiers. They do not have a clue how stressed out the military is. How the policies they are all pushing for are breaking the military.
YOU all say YOU support the troops. What a f load of crap. If YOU aren’t there in Iraq along side them in this endless war that YOU support…
Don’t ever f tell me YOU support the troops.
That goes for all of you war cheerleaders, Republican and Democratic party alike, that continue to fund this endless disaster. The same thing goes for all of you keyboard and armchair warriors that cheer on the occupation of Iraq but are too hypocritical to spill your own blood in Iraq’s desert sands.
Its been fun…night y’all…gotta work tomorrow…God Bless you all!
2006 was a one-time shot for all ya Dems.
Dance in the streets for 18 more months, that’s all ya have left to actually DO something, besides hold meaningless hearings on the past.
This country is facing the largest Fiscal crisis in its history, and neither Dems or Repubs are addressing that.
When America incurs a $30 Trillion National Debt, your Socialism will end.
Why? Cause working people ain’t gonna work for you lazy SOB’s anymore.
We’ll have enough to retire on and move out of the US if we want to avoid the Greatest Depression this country has ever seen.
Have a nice day Libs. Y’all are building the nest to poverty for all of America. And all the working people you have been living off of for years, are NOT gonna pay for you anymore.
Your gravy train is almost ended.
Posted by: lhg | July 15, 2007 at 08:20 PM
Interesting observation. Total BS, but still interesting. I don’t believe for a second that ‘06 was the end. It was the beginning. Sure, Dems ran on the promise of ending the war, but if you had half a clue, you would know they don’t have a big enough majority to overcome bush’s veto, now that he has figured out how to use it. The pendelum will swing the rest of the way over to the left this time. This counrty’s fiscal crisis is to be laid at the feet of our president and the so called “social conservatives” who lick his boots. They are the ones who helped pass his tax cuts at a time of war. If the bubble bursts and our economy collapses, the money you (or did you say we, maybe you have a mouse in your pocket) have will be basically worthless paper, unless you have it in gold or precious metals.
Question: How can conservatives claim that the it is the left that hates the military when it was the cons that threw our troops under the bus to the tune of over 3600 dead? How can Cons claim this when it is the Commander in chief and his advisors that have sent the troops back to Iraq for second, third, FOURTH tours? When the tours continue to grow ever longer, nine, twelve, fifteen months? How can conservatives claim this when it has been 2134 days since the terror attacks on 9/11 and the man in charge of Al-Quaeda is still alive and at large? How can they claim to be in a “War on Terror” when the bulk of our troops are involved in a civil war in Iraq while the terrorists of Al-Quaeda and the Taliban consolidate their power in Pakistan and begin new offensives there and in Afghanistan? Why our our troops not defending our borders, our airports, our cities here? Why are our troops fighting sectarian conflicts in Bhagdad when the people that blew up the World Trade Center are two countries over?
There is no reasonable explanation for why we have 150,000+ American soldiers in Iraq when the terrorists aren’t even there! The most recent report on the terror threat stated that Al-Quaeda is at it’s most functional level since we began the “War on Terror,” and that the threat of an attack on American soil is at it’s highest since 9/11. Why is that? Because our venerable (snicker) President is too busy playing with his toys in the sand to understand the real threat is not, and never was, in Iraq.
If another terrorist is succesful in an attack on American soil, we can look straight to the blinkered Oval Office for the person most responsible. Not only are we fighting in the wrong country with the wrong people, but now our ability to defend ourselves is crippled by five years of nonstop usage of our military capabilities without allowing for any rebuilding.
Brown and Darkstar…GREAT POSTS>
who was it in the senate this week that voted down Webbs bill to give our soldiers breaks?
yes it was the REPUKES
they hate our soldiers
Good Night, Good Luck, and God Bless… Who/Whatever you conceive of God to be…
I’m off to bed too
night all
The polls say 2/3rds of troops believe it’s time to get out of Iraq.
That’s the troops talking.
On the national healthcare…imagine how much of a boon it would be for the companies that hire people? Wages could immediately go up as they won’t have to worry about paying 1/2 their salaries in benefits. They can hire more people.
That’s an angle I’ve never even heard them talk about before.
I think Con is about to implode.
PMom, if the employers are no longer paying for health care benefits, then who is? Or is National Healthcare really free?Wow!
We’ll all pay for it out of our taxes. I never said it’d be free.
Private health insurance has become nothing more than a profit for the health insurance companies. People with health insurance get shafted for the money worse than anyone else. They pay for their own health insurance, then they pay their deductibles and copays, the medical care for everyone else in their plan (which is a mini socialism, now is it not?). They pay to provide the companies their ‘meetings’ in Aruba, the receptionists pay, the salary of the person denying their claims. Then they turn around and pay taxes for those who are on govt programs, and then they pay more at the hospital to cover those who can’t pay their bills.
Pmom,
Don’t forget that the HMO’s have managed to exempt themselves from consumer protection acts, and are virtually immune to lawsuits.
No PMom, 50% of us will pay 96.5% of the taxes.
You Socialists won’t have to pay a dime.
Good program for you, though I don’t know how you can live with yourself for not being self-reliant, living off the sweat of the work of others. The day you were born, the World owed you something, didn’t it?
On average, health care in America costs about $7,000 per patient. We are ranked 37th.
On average, health care in Cuba cost $266 per patient. They are ranked 39th.
The latest figures show that the average lifespan in Cuba is slightly longer than the average in the United States.
Folks, we’re ALREADY paying gazillions for health care. Universal coverage would drive prices DOWN, not up.
As for Max claim that 50 percent pay 96 percent of the taxes.
That’s totally false.
That only refers to INCOME taxes. There’re many, many other taxes that take a disproportionate share from the income of the middle class and poor, like payroll taxes.
Even property tax affects everyone. Rentors pay it through their rent to the landlord who has to pay it.
Sure Max, the world owes me something, right. That’s always the excuse when wingnuts have nothing of substance to offer. SOCIALIST! LAZY! VICTIM!
Whatever.
Agreed, P_Mom.
Isn’t it sickening?
The poor work much harder than the rich and always have.
They pay a greater share of their income in taxes than do the rich, and they give a greater share of their income away in charity.
For all their talk about how tough the rich have it, you never see the CONs trading places with the poor, do you.
Why do we have income at all Capn? Shouldn’t the gov’t just give us everything we need? Socialize health care, food, transportation… Then we would be doing better right?
Everyone gets the same cookie cutter house. The same government built car. Worked real well for Russia right?
If you love socialism so much why don’t you go live in China. The government will even tell you what to think. That should just tickle you pink. Pun intended.
CapnAmerica,
What do you do for a living?
Who works harder:
The Janitor who barely finished High School and makes 7 dollars an hour now…
or
The Doctor who worked 3 jobs to pay for pre med and medical school for 8 years while having to study and maintain a high GPA.
Then set up her own business and built it from the ground up.
Only after 8 years of school, working 3 jobs, and then several years of trying to build a business does the doctor now make decent money.
Now I have to sit here and listen to CapnAmerica tell me that the poor work harder and always have…
What reality do you live in?
Nathan–
Okay, doctors work hard . . . to become doctors.
I think you can make a strong case that listening to people’s hearts and looking in their ears is easier than crawling through a crawl space fixing plumbing or busting up concrete with a jackhammer.
Which would you rather do?
What’s so wrong with socialism anyway?
Funny you should mention China, Sollie.
Because I actually lived there for a year.
I saw communism up close and first hand. There was a big statue of Mao right in front of the building where I worked.
Apparently it will surprise you to learn that I DIDN’T LIKE COMMUNISM. Not a bit.
It’s not socialism I want. And anyone who thinks about what I’m writing–instead of name-calling–would see that.
What I’m saying is that we should stop socialism . . . SOCIALISM FOR THE RICH, which is the only significant kind of socialism we have in this country.
Exhibit A is the “outsourcing” of the war to mercenaries and private contractors in Iraq. Buy everyone in your company a new cadillac SUV? No problem on the gov’t dime . . .
The fact that Warren Buffet is taxed on only 40 percent of “capital gains” income from picking up the phone and moving money around from one fund to another while the diesel mechanic gets taxed on the 100 percent he earns for tearing an engine apart and putting it back together is another example of SOCIALISM FOR THE RICH.
40 percent for money managers and portfolio owners
100 percent for people who work for a living.
Real nice.
Whoa, Cap, Mr. Buffet is taxed upon 100% of his long term capital gains, not 40% (that part of the IRC was changed a good while back). However, assuming no alternative minimum tax issues with the gain, the maximum rate of such income tax thereon is 15%.
CapnAmerica,
What do you do for a living?
Do you have any idea of what you are talking about?
Docotrs have to constantly stay up to date on the latest in medicine practice.
It is not quite as simple as just checking people out.
This is only one job too.
The idea that simply because poor people do more manual jobs = harder working is simple minded.
What about Engineers?
What about Scientists?
These people work their buts off to get an education, study, and to be an expert at what they do.
They may not be shoveling dirt, but to say they don’t work hard is a joke.
In support of Nathan’s arguements I would note that the trained worker has a shorter earning career (satrting later) and debts to pay off from school. We also have professional liability insurance that can be rather steep.
Thanks Ben.
So tell me Ben, is your job easy?
Would you say that you don’t work as hard as a janitor?
I think you can make a strong case that listening to people’s hearts and looking in their ears is easier than crawling through a crawl space fixing plumbing or busting up concrete with a jackhammer.
Which would you rather do?
Posted by: CapnAmerica | July 16, 2007 at 11:53 AM
Doctors crawl through and fix your plumbing albeit with smaller tools and there is less dust involved.
Also, the method of entry is substantially higher in risk factors than taking a sledge hammer to a wall.
‘Working hard’ means many things to many people, it is not just physical labor.
Capn.
Doesn’t surprise me that you lived in China one bit. Anyone can see how it has tainted your views and increased your socialism. Redistribution of wealth. So if you are successful in America, you should not have a salary to match.
Do you think you could open some one’s chest and fix their heart? Think you could stand over that open chest for 8 hours straight knowing that ANY wrong move would end a life? Janitor vs. doctor. Could you be ANY more ludicrous?Janitors and CEO’s with the same salary. What the hell Capn? Go back to China.
What’s so wrong with socialism anyway?
Posted by: brian | July 16, 2007 at 11:54 AM
Nothing at all Brian. why don’t you go enjoy it in China.
WHen my parents were in china people were selling toilet paper by the sheet.
Oh yeah, China, the gleaming star which should be the guiding light we in America follow.
Of course we would have to shut down all internet access to non government approved websites.
Come on folks, lets try to READ today… Cap said he didnt LIKE communism…. DIDNT like Communmism…. Lets give reading comprehension the old 1/2 college try today??? And not get mired down in a bunch of senseless posting??? How about it??
Apparently it will surprise you to learn that I DIDN’T LIKE COMMUNISM. Not a bit.
It’s not socialism I want. And anyone who thinks about what I’m writing–instead of name-calling–would see that.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | July 16, 2007 at 11:58 AM
Come on folks, lets try to READ today… Cap said he didnt LIKE communism…. DIDNT like Communmism…. Lets give reading comprehension the old 1/2 college try today??? And not get mired down in a bunch of senseless posting??? How about it??
Posted by: chas. | July 16, 2007 at 12:51 PM
OK chas, lead the way. He SAYS he doesn’t like communism, and in the same breath preaches it.
Go figure.
What I’m saying is that we should stop socialism . . . SOCIALISM FOR THE RICH, which is the only significant kind of socialism we have in this country.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | July 16, 2007 at 11:58 AM
Tax the rich. Give to the poor. Equal outcome for everyone regardless of the effort you put into your life.
Penalize those that are successful. Reward those that are not. GREAT way to run a country.
Nathan – not as hard physically but I sure get a lot of headaches!
Doctors work hard, yes. But they don’t work nearly as hard as nurses do.
They have a nice little lounge where they sit and watch tv, sleep, do their other business while the patients wait (yup, saw that with my own eyes a few times).
Their paperwork is almost fully done by nurses. The patient care is mostly done by nurses.
And who works hardest yet are the aides. They hardly ever get to sit down. They don’t get the luxury of using the paperwork excuse.
I see NO communism being preached on this thread… He said STOP Socialism… NOT start it… He is attacking the Socialism of the Wealthy… the profiteers…. Come on Sol, you can read better than that!!! I know you can!!
P_Mom, it is a free country. Nurses can go to school to be doctors. Aides to be nurses. Nurses and aides and doctors chose their paths in life. If you don’t like your job, do another one.
I understand everyone works hard. Patient care is a nurse’s job. That is what they are trained for.
I would rather wait for half an hour for a doctor then have her come in frazzled and not do her job well.
If it bugs me, I’ll find another doctor.
Guess this is where socialism comes in. In a free country, you choose. Socialists have their choices made FOR them by government.
nd Chas, I hope you understand what socialism is. Penalize those who are successful. Reward those that are not. Equal outcome for all regardless of effort.
The GOVERNMENT deciding who gets the money earned by the wealthy. Huh…
I guess you guys are a little off topic. I’m going back to Bush and Iraq. Okay? Thanks
July 16, 2007GOP senator to Rove: Bush legacy on the line in IraqVoinovich told CNN he has warned Karl Rove that the president needs to salvage his legacy.WASHINGTON (CNN) — A Republican senator says he warned top White House aide Karl Rove that President Bush quickly needs to craft a workable plan to withdraw U.S. troops fom Iraq in order to salvage his legacy.
White House spokesman Tony Snow insisted last week that Bush’s GOP allies in Congress are not breaking with Bush over the war. But Sen. George Voinovich, R-Ohio, told CNN that he warned Rove last week that “The president is a young man and should think about his legacy.”
He should know history will not be kind unless he can come up with a plan that protects the troops and stabilizes the region,” Voinovich said he told Karl Rove, whom Bush dubbed “the architect” of his 2004 re-election.
Voinovich added that other Republicans are close to speaking out against the President’s current strategy.
“I won’t mention anyone’s name. But I have every reason to believe that the fur is going to start to fly, perhaps sooner than what they may have wanted.”
In private, Voinovich is more blunt, using a profanity to describe the White House’s handling of Iraq by charging the administration “f—ed up” the war.
Voinovich stressed he expressed his views to Rove as a positive “opportunity” for the president to come together with Democrats and Republicans on an exit strategy that will be good for the country.
A White House spokeswoman confirmed to CNN that Rove, who speaks with Voinovich frequently, had the phone conversation with the senator last week and they did discuss the President’s legacy. But the spokeswoman declined to provide further details, citing Rove’s desire to keep phone conversations with senators private.
“I got into this to get them to move, and they’re moving,” said Voinovich, who is pushing for the president to put together a workable plan for withdrawing U.S. troops that will be ready in time for a September progress report on the military surge from Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq.
“I really think that they understand,” said Voinovich. “We’ll see by September what they put together. But the main thing is were running out of time — we should take advantage of this time.”
And while Voinovich is giving the White House some breathing space until September to receive the progress report from Gen. Petraeus, the senator is privately warning if there’s not a dramatic new strategy ready to be unveiled in the fall, he will endorse a Democratic plan mandating a timeline for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq within 120 days.
In June, Voinovich urged Bush to take a new tack in Iraq — one he dubbed “Plan E,” for exit. Voinovich called for a decrease in U.S. military engagement, coupled with a “surge” in diplomatic engagement.
His break with the White House came one day after another senior Republican, Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, delivered a dramatic Senate floor speech declaring the president’s current strategy was not working.
Since then, Voinovich said he has spoken to both Rove and National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley and is expressing some satisfaction that in the short term, the White House has heard his concerns.
– CNN’s Ed Henry and Dana Bash
——————————–”Voinovich told CNN he has warned Karl Rove that the president needs to salvage his legacy.”
Okay, legacy is more important then the deaths of the soldiers?
Question for the Pro-Health care group:Has that much changed since 1994 that you think the idea will get a pass this time?
WOW, you conservatives are among the stupidest people on the planet. right there with Islamic fundamentalists.If you and bush had your way you would paint crosses on your shields and go conquer the holy land again, if I had my way we would fulfill your dreams and hang you on crosses and martyr you.you follow a god that could not keep himself from being nailed to a tree. Shows your mind set. room temp IQ.
Stupid is as stupid does, what a nasty thing to say….cheeeeesh
Bush looks like he just had a hot date with his second wife, Condi!
“nd Chas, I hope you understand what socialism is. Penalize those who are successful. Reward those that are not. Equal outcome for all regardless of effort.”
This would be according to the Sol’s Dictionary of Economics?? Cause that isnt any definition of Socialism that I have EVER seen..
Thanks, Vaughn T. for the correction. It’s still a scandal.
Thanks too to Chas.
Eventually you’ll see that’s futile.
They don’t read what one writes. They read what they want to hate so they can hate it.
It’s why they listen to Rush. So they can hate people who don’t think like them.
And even if you DO think like them, they’ll still hate you.
Because you don’t express it the way they do.
comaraden,
There is nothing wrong with socialism, just so long as it is the RIGHT brand of socialism.
Die Fahne Hoch!!!
Redistribution of wealth. Take from the wealthy and give to the poor. The government decides how much money you can have and takes the rest. The government decides how much of the wealthy’s money the poor can have.
Government dictating income. Punishing the successful and rewarding the unsuccessful. If that isn’t socialism, please provide an explanation.
If this is your idea of a fair economy Chas, enjoy your stay in China. You too Cap’n.
By the way Capn, as we’ve had this conversation before, why are you still driving your car and living in your house. I’m sure there are those less fortunate than you are that want it.
“The number of Iraqi battalions ready and able to fight on their own has halved in recent months, despite increased efforts by the US to train them.”
And we call this progress?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6901567.stm
Sollie–
Take a breath, dude. You’re ascribing positions to me that even Communists don’t believe, and unlike you, I actually know some Communists.
You watched too many of those black and white movies in the 50’s where Dad comes home from the office and the “cadres” have taken over his house and the family is forced to live in the root cellar.
Of course I don’t want government directly redistributing income from the wealthy to the poor. On the other hand, I don’t want the gov’t to incentivize the rich to STEAL from the poor which is what we’ve got now.
The middle class and the poor get taxed for projects that benefit the rich. Exhibit A–The Wichita arena. The working poor won’t be able to go to hocky games there. But they get taxed on their FOOD and everything else they buy to pay for it.
Same way with roads. Poor people depend on mass transit. How much do we spend on roads vs. how much do we spend on mass transit? It’s not even in the same league.
At the federal level, it’s the same deal. The feds pass out huge grants to universities to do research for new drugs, and Big Pharma reaps all the profits.
That’s what I’m talking about–that’s what we need to stop: this welfare for the rich by socializing the costs and privatizing the profits.
And the Docs work 70 to 80 hours weeks. Anyone here do that?
I only do 70 – 80 hrs. if I run into 3 funerals, and a wedding all in the same week… Fortunately not very often….
SHELBY TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) – A teen who got his parents’ permission to join the Army at 17 has been killed in the blast of an improvised explosive device in Baghdad.
Eighteen-year-old Private First Class Christopher Kube was from Macomb County’s Shelby Township, about 15 miles north of Detroit.
The Pentagon says he died Saturday.
Kube was part of a unit from Fort Carson, Colorado.
He was 1 of 2 Michigan soldiers reported killed in Iraq last week.
On Friday, 29-year-old Army Sergeant Allen Greka of Alpena, died from injuries he sustained from a land mine while on patrol.
His unit was from Fort Benning, Georgia.
Copyright 2007 The Associated Press.
Max–
The docs I know don’t work those hours.
And if they do, it’s entirely their choice, unlike the WalMart floor workers . . .
The picture on this blogs makes me think someone just to Bush to smell his finger.