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Open thread 7/25
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted July 25, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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370 Comments
WE EDITORS:
WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GET A REAL THREAD ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES?
YOU HAVE THE TIME ONCE AGAIN TO HAVE AN ABORTION THREAD ABOUT THE GOP AND YOU GIVE US ANOTHER FLUFF PIECE ABOUT A DEMOCRAT.
YOU CONTINUE TO SHOW YOUR COMPLETE INABILITY TO GIVE THIS BLOG ANYTHING CLOSE TO A LEGITIMATE FAIR DIALOGUE ON THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.
The past Presidential Race Titles Broken Down:
Republican indifferent:
Kansans voting for Brownback with their moneyBut will prayer be enough?Phelps will not be endorsing ThompsonLittle GOP appetite for enlarging candidate poolWill Brownback score in South Carolina?Romney wins the first GOP debate?
Both Republican Critical and Prop:
Vice President Fred?Iowa getting to know BrownbackRomney gracious in accepting Brownback apologyIf anybody wants Brownback, check IowaBrownback got the messageThompson ready to runNewt not a happy GOP-erIs Ron Paul crazy or the last true conservative?Is Fred Thompson really the GOP savior?
Republican Prop:
Romney breaks out where it countsCredit McCain for stand against tortureGiuliani rides to debate victory on Sept. 11Mitt rhymes with rich, sort ofBrownback becomes honorary Girl Scout
Republican Critical:
GOP growing more unsatisfied with candidate choicesNo perfect men among GOP candidatesBrownback-Schiavo ticket a success?Giuliani has foes among firefightersMore wheels coming off McCain Straight Talk ExpressWill story dog Romney?Bumpy riding on the Straight Talk ExpressTaking aim at Thompson’s resumeGiuliani now willing to blame ClintonBrownback immigration vote on Tuesday not a promiseCandidates by day, comedy fodder by nightHow would Rudy keeps his commitments?GOP candidates for God, not gay troopsGOP presidential wannabes tough on BushOn abortion, Giuliani v. God?Evolution question is complicated, Brownback saysMore accurately Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Iowa?Debate a setback for Brownback?Brownback increasingly good for laughsNot even the best in the second tier?Will Fred be pro-life enough?Brownback vying to be most pro-life of them all
Democratic Candidate Prop:
Obama takes on teacher merit payHow about some Obama Girl mud wrestling?Maybe Bill should try holding his breathObama funds matter more than pollsClinton has company up frontClinton and Obama emerged strongerJust do not ask Hillary to sing itWhich came first, the campaign contribution or the shift in power?Obama got carried away on tornado death toll
Democratic Candidate Both Critical and Prop:
Velvet just isn’t Hillary’s styleWhat matters? Long, beautiful hair
Both Parties:
Not a lot of faith in faith of candidatesBeing Mr. Resume not enoughBrownback and Obama on same teamOnly millionaires need apply?Experience has its limits among 2008 Big SixMore than policy to candidates
I have picked on my Democratic friends here for something that every other Republican whole heartily agrees with. That Democrats have a nature born talent it seems like to be able to pull a defeat from the jaws of a victory.
Well it is time to gig my brother Republicans now, if we ever want to gain back the public trust and the White House again. We better start doing a better job at pitching the party, namely with the party in this much trouble and so divide. Partisan politics as usual is not the way, Bush&Co., and the fact that the GOP had control of both houses and their being basically a do nothing house. Has become such an Albatross about our necks, that the tactic of beating Bill Clinton up over and over is not showing any real effect.Nor is the repeated pointing out the short comings of the Democrats working either.
It is coming across like we are a bunch of winy school kids who in defense of major offenses point and say “Well Billy did it!”. Bill Clinton was not a favorite President of mine, he did quite a bit of damage to the office and in my opinion set a bad image for the children of this nation. But to continue to counter the war in Iraq, the questionable intelligence, the possible violation of the Constitution and draconian powers that Bush keep piling on. With repeatedly bring up the blow job and lying under oath about it is just weak.
To counter the failings of the Republican lead houses over the past ten years with the failings of the recently elected Democratic houses. Is weak and liken to a two term President saying that a one term President is a failure for not getting done what the two term never could get done.
I recently watched the chairman of the NRC giving a speech to young Republicans, he talked as if there was nothing but Partisan politics going on and Never addressed the failings of the party in Iraq and the Congress.
Everyone else can see the 800 pound gorilla in the room except for the party its self. It will not matter if we loose the White House and both houses if we are losing the young and most of the base. It is time to face the shortcomings and address them. There are real problems facing not just the party but the country, if we do not work to fix them and admit that they are real and not just Partisanship. It will be left to others to take the lead and we loose any hope of remaining a viable choice.
You will know when the facist comes… He will be wrapped in the Flag, carrying a Cross.– para. Sinclair Lewis –
Writer Dog, take heed of the words of Lewis, or you will see your Party, AND the nation fall.
You can tell we have come full circle, when the Conservative thinkers, oppose efforts in Conservation.
You can tell there is a serious problem, when the Party of Reagan, is seeking to win “Red” states…
Ok, that is a PUN…
Nathan, it’s because the Dems are the GOOD guys and the repubs are the bad guys.
Quit yelling.
Dog, my sympathies. As the old-timers here well know, I have my own issues with the Dems (so much so that I’ve been an “Unaffiliated” for more than 6 years), but, of the two, I prefer a party that at least TALKS about the things that matter.
But if the Republican party has future, people like you are it.
Nathan,It doesn’t really matter what the subject is anymore. By 10am, this will be The All Troll Blog, All the Time.
Ever notice how trolls are always conservative and singularly stupid?
Ever notice how libs aren’t smart enough to learn the cardinal rule of trolls, don’t feed them. I think it may be an ego problem.Gotta have that last word.
XXX — I checked the pantry last nite… I am fresh out of Troll food for this week… LOL :-)
But you’re still right… They will still hang around, looking for any crumbs they can find, and still be a nuisance…
DEMS IN CONGRESS ARE NO BARGAIN – by Jim Hightower
To the Democratic leaders of Congress, I can only say: Heck of a job!
In less than six months, the top Democrats have squandered the outpouring of public support gained from last year’s congressional elections. On the war, on ethics, and on challenging corporate power, American voters expressed faith that Democrats would change Congress and begin to serve the public interest.
But – poof! – that faith is gone. The latest polls show that only 27 percent of the people approve of the way Congress is doing its job.
Why the precipitous decline? Because the “new” Democrats are still burdened with too many don’t-rock-the-boat, money-soaked, corporate-backed old Democrats who sit in key leadership posts. They are so entrenched that they don’t feel the public’s anger about Iraq, so they have no sense of urgency about confronting this out-of-control president.
Even on congressional ethics reform, which should be a slam-dunk for Democrats, some of the old bulls have balked. They don’t want an independent ethics commission, they don’t want to limit their own possibilities of cashing in to become lobbyists, and they don’t want to stop using lobbyists as their campaign fundraisers.
Then, on their first chance to confront corporate power, some old-guard Democrats have weaseled. Rather than an honest, bold energy bill to stop the corporate causes of climate change, the Democrats’ House bill would prevent the Environmental Protection Agency from regulating greenhouse gas emissions from cars and trucks, would prevent states from doing so, and would set fuel economy standards weaker even than Mr. Bush has proposed!
What this means is that our job of congressional clean up is not complete. Voters made a good start last year, but we must continue next year, recruiting and electing more true reformers to replace the business-as-usual crowd that’s clogging up both parties.
The MAIN problem with the Democrats is the fact that they do not realize politics is a blood sport. Many of them think you can “be nice” and still get elected and govern. They fail to realize that people like Karl Rove will do anything to get elected. When I hear a Democrat use the word “bi partisian” it makes me SICK because that means “OK I am spreading my cheeks Karl”. Look at John Kerry- the swiftboat people came after him and he said NOTHING. Laid down for Karl Rove like a prison bitch! And he lost. If he had come out when they first appeared and said something like ” these low lifes are paid Republican pansies and if any of them have the guts to say that crap to my face, bring it on”, people would have cheered and Kerry would be President. One thing I can say about Republicans is that they know how to fight and they are good at it. They play to win- not to be “nice” or “bipartisan”. When the Democrats tried to use the fillibuster and hold up right wing judicial appointments, the Republicans told them that they would use the “nuclear option” and change the rules on the fillibuster (probably not a bad idea). The Democrats backed down like a cat facing a Rotweiler! My question is when will the Democrats figure out how to play the game? When will we see a Democrat “Contract With America”? A Democrat like Karl Rove?
Meanwhile Lawrence,Kansas government seems to be a real mess with high taxes yet failing to fund its’ public transportation and social service responsibilities. Between that and a 50-50 chance of buying a crummy constructed home at all price levels when will they get it straight?============T hours likely to be cutCommission looks at more taxes, reduced bus service to make room in budgetEmailPost a commentiPod-friendlyPrintBy Chad LawhornJuly 25, 2007Advertisement
City commission votes to cut T hoursCity leaders move to keep property taxes lower and hours on the bus shorter. A majority of Lawrence city commissioners indicated they prefer to make the T’s last run at 6 p.m. starting next year. Watch
City budgetPool fee proposal revised (07-24-07)Developer seeks expansion into city parking lot (07-24-07)Numbers still fuzzy on city budget (07-16-07)Amyx sees sales tax as road rescue (07-17-07)County aims for level levy (07-17-07)City’s budget outlook worsens (06-20-07)Lawrence residents should prepare for a property tax rate increase, reduced hours on the T and a major cut to a touted social service program for students as part of the city’s 2008 budget.
Plus, voters may be asked to approve a new sales tax in 2008.
A divided City Commission struggled late into the night Tuesday to shape next year’s budget. Here’s what they came up with, although several commissioners said they may seek to change the budget when they are scheduled to give it final approval Aug. 7:
l Increasing the mill levy by 0.42 mills to avoid some cuts in service to the Lawrence Transit System. But the mill levy increase does not avoid all cuts to the T. Under the new budget, the bus service would need to close at 6 p.m. instead of 8 p.m. Commissioners heard almost a solid hour of public comment against cutting the hours of the T.
l Eliminating $250,000 in funding for Bert Nash Community Mental Health Center’s WRAP program, which places social workers in Lawrence schools to help troubled or at-risk students. Commissioners left open the possibility of restoring that funding if they learn that the Lawrence school district would continue to fund its share of the program, which has been approximately $300,000 in past years. But City Manager David Corliss shared an e-mail communication with Superintendent Randy Weseman, who said the funding likely would not be a part of the school district’s budget.
l Providing a 2 percent wage increase for all city employees. But commissioners mainly are using the elimination of the WRAP funding to provide resources for the wage increase. If the WRAP funding is restored to the budget, the wage increase for city employees may be out.
Split vote
The City Commission was anything but unanimous on the budget. Commissioners moved forward on the overall publication of the budget on a 3-2 vote, with Commissioners Boog Highberger and Mike Dever voting against it.
But each voted against it for different reasons. Dever said he did not feel comfortable providing the wage increase during such tight financial times, while Highberger opposed the cuts in T service.
Tuesday’s vote was just the first step in approving the budget. Commissioners must give final approval to the budget on Aug. 7. At that meeting, commissioners can lower the amount of money they’ve agreed to spend in 2008, but cannot increase it. That means the cut in service hours to the T is likely to stick.
A crowd of about 50 people came to the meeting, with most there to discuss the possible T cuts. Several members of the crowd told commissioners they would be willing to spend more in property taxes to avoid cuts in service to the T. They said the system was critical to getting people to their jobs, and that a cut in hours would be a hardship for many people who rely on the T.
Highberger and Mayor Sue Hack sided with the crowd, although Hack ultimately voted for the reduction in hours in an effort to move the budget forward. All five commissioners said they supported efforts to merge the T system with Kansas University’s transit systems. But Commissioners Mike Amyx, Rob Chestnut and Dever said they couldn’t support increasing the mill levy any more than 0.42 mills.
Sales tax proposal
There’s an outside chance that the city may not increase the mill levy that much. Amyx was pushing a plan that would eliminate the need for a property tax rate increase in 2008. But it would do so by cutting about $400,000 to $600,000 in funding from the proposed street maintenance budget in 2008.
Amyx said he would be comfortable reducing the street maintenance budget in 2008, as long as commissioners placed a new half-cent sales tax proposal on the ballot for voters in 2008.
Amyx is proposing that the half-cent sales tax, which would expire in five years, be used entirely to fund street maintenance and sidewalks. He’s estimating it would generate $25 million to $30 million during the five-year period.
But he also concedes that there is risk to the plan. Commissioners have no way of knowing whether voters would approve the new sales tax. It cannot be adopted without voter approval.
All five commissioners expressed support for putting a half-cent sales tax issue on a future ballot, although they did not specify a date. All five also said they would want the majority of the sales tax to be used for street issues, but Hack, Dever and Chestnut also said they would want part of the money to go toward preparing land for future economic development projects.
But a majority among the commission did not emerge for Amyx’s plan to cut street maintenance funds this year in an effort to keep the mill levy steady.
“I’m not willing to gamble on that,” Highberger said. “I don’t think that would be responsible.”
Amyx, though, said he thinks it is the best way to give a sales tax a fair chance of being approved by the voters.
“I don’t think we can get a sales tax passed at the same time we have a property tax increase,” Amyx said.
Lawrence,Kansas is out of touch it seems which may be why Overland,Park makes a top ten place to live. Is the Lawrence public education system going downhill after many years of enjoying high ratings? City gov’t will not support the public school system as JOCO did.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/moneymag_archive/2006/08/01/8382218/index.htm
Why isn’t there something done about CapnAmerica outing people?
He tries to out me on a daily basis.
I think its time for the WE Blog Phillip Brownlee to kick this pervert permanently from the Blog so we can get on posting normal posts.
CapnAmerica is THE MAJOR DISRUPTIVE person on this Blog.
Oprah will earn $260,000,000 this year. Let’s hear from the wealth redistributors this morning…
XXX–
Good post. As for me, I’m back to the “walk on by” strategy.
I. As the number of posts increases on any given thread at the WE Blog, the probability of ad hominem attacks approaches unity.
II. Once the first ad hominem attack occurs, the rate of these attacks grows expoentially.
III. The editors can chide trolls into behaving better, but this effect is temporary (less than one week) in duration.
IV. Posters with zero valid points to make will use the term “You People” (or some equally innane sweeping generalization) in a majority of their posts.
Time now once again for the WEBlog fastest-growing news sensation, The Bush Family Evil Empire: Scandal Du Jour.
Today’s scandal is brought to you by CACI. When you need interrogators and need them fast, remember CACI can supply the trained personnel you need (well, sort of trained). Our interrogators make the competition look like the law-abiding wimps they are. CACI, when you need to go medieval on their ass . . .
Is it possible to actually feel sorry for the Bush Family Evil Empire?
NAH! They deserve the bad news they’re getting and much, much more.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/24/AR2007072402263.html?sub=AR
Looks like Bush is not only the most unpopular president ever, he’s the most unpopular president for the LONGEST TIME ever.
From Today’s WaPo article:
President Bush is a competitive guy. But this is one contest he would rather lose. With 18 months left in office, he is in the running for most unpopular president in the history of modern polling.
The latest Washington Post-ABC News survey shows that 65 percent of Americans disapprove of Bush’s job performance, matching his all-time low. In polls conducted by The Post or Gallup going back to 1938, only once has a president exceeded that level of public animosity — and that was Richard M. Nixon, who hit 66 percent four days before he resigned.
The historic depth of Bush’s public standing has whipsawed his White House, sapped his clout, drained his advisers, encouraged his enemies and jeopardized his legacy. Around the White House, aides make gallows-humor jokes about how they can alienate their remaining supporters — at least those aides not heading for the door. Outside the White House, many former aides privately express anger and bitterness at their erstwhile colleagues, Bush and the fate of his presidency.
. . . .
The president’s low public standing has paralleled the disenchantment with the Iraq war, but some analysts said it goes beyond that, reflecting a broader unease with Bush’s policies in a variety of areas. “It isn’t just the Iraq war,” said Shirley Anne Warshaw, a presidential scholar at Gettysburg College. “It’s everything.”
“It’s astonishing,” said Pat Caddell, who was President Jimmy Carter’s pollster. “The anxiety about the future is palpable. And the feeling about him is he’s irrelevant to that. I think they’ve basically given up on him.”
The current president, though, has endured bad numbers longer than Nixon or his father did and longer than anyone other than Truman. His disapproval rating has topped 50 percent for more than two years. And though Truman hit 65 percent once, Bush has hit that high three times in the past 14 months.
*****
So there you have it, folks. Despite “failing schools” and a media that pounded the drums of war with the frenzy of a thirteen year whose just encountered his dad’s stash of Playboys, the American people aren’t buying Bush Lies (TM) anymore.
A sad day for the Bush dead-enders. A brightening day for America’s future.
This has been you Bush Family Evil Empire: Scandal Du Jour, brought to you by CACI. “Putting the screws to you” is not just an expression at CACI, it’s how we spend your tax dollars . . . CACI, torture made simple.
C’mon Capn. You can do better than this. In a few hour’s research I found SOOO much dirt on daddy and Jr. Bush relating to Saudi and Carlyle Group. Let’s get some REAL dirt in here !!!
Translation of the above post:
I. As the number of posts increases on any given thread at the WE Blog, the probability of ad hominem attacks approaches unity.
Could possibly be accurate, but it derives from the paranoid and immature who seek to gain ground by adding detractors instead of substance.==========================II. Once the first ad hominem attack occurs, the rate of these attacks grows expoentially.
Spell checkers are a good thing, especially when trying to spell “exponentially.”
Again, based on the same serendipity premise as “I.”
========================III. The editors can chide trolls into behaving better, but this effect is temporary (less than one week) in duration.
Translation: A troll on the WE Blog is anyone on the Right that has their own opinion.
The Left get offended when the Right-sided posters bite back.=============================IV. Posters with zero valid points to make will use the term “You People” (or some equally innane sweeping generalization) in a majority of their posts.
Posters will zero valid points is only seen through the eyes of those on the Left. They figure no one but themselves can post anything of substance, so they classify those on the Right as inane or invalid.
This last point “IV” is by its own language a “sweeping generalization” and invalidates itself.========================
True, Sol. I’m getting lazy.
There’s SOOO much sleaze in the Bush family going back at least three generations, a daily column doesn’t begin to scratch the surface.
But I’ll put the Carlyle Group and the Bush-Bin Laden love-fest on my short list for an upcoming Scandal Du Jour.
Thanks for the encouragement!
Postulate: Let’s point fingers at each other’s party, with emphasis on the righteousness of our own.That will really solve our nations problems:
In January, the Senate passed the Transparency and Accountability Act by a vote of 98-0. It states “no member shall use his official position to introduce, request or otherwise aid the progress or passage of a congressional earmark that will financially benefit or otherwise further the pecuniary interest of a member … spouse … or immediate family of such a member.
Nebraska Sen. Ben Nelson (democrat) may be violating a key provision of a newly passed ethics bill by failing to disclose that his son is an as its marketing director at the Company — 21st Century Systems Inc. — to produce computer software for the military and received millions in federal tax money, much of it requested by the senator himself.Coburn claims the Pentagon has not ordered any of 21 CSI’s technology through the normal budgeting process, and military officials told Coburn it did not ask for and does not need the program. Instead, friends in Congress got the money for 21CSI outside the competitive process through earmarks.Critics say Nelson, who voted for the bill, should have disclosed the family conflict or refused to sponsor the earmark. (AP)
Troll #1
Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Grandpa Bush. Haven’t looked at him yet…
Hey, how about the Jan 29th, 1991 address by Bush Sr. New World Order. That is pretty juicy!!!—–
Hehehe . . . Bush’s most recent speech used the phrase al Qaeda 95 times, terror or terrorist 40 times, Osama bin Laden 23 times, attack 22 times.
He used strategy one time, plan, solution, or remedy ZERO times.
Social security reform . . . FAILURE
Immigration reform . . . FAILURE
No Child Left Behind mandatory testing . . . FAILURE
Faith based and abstinence only sex ed . . . FAILURE
Iraq War . . . FAILURE
Tax breaks for the rich . . . FAILURE
Looks like he’s going back to the only thing that has worked for him — FEAR. TERRORISTS ARE EVERYWHERE. PANIC NOW (and vote Republican).
“Could possibly be accurate, but it derives from the paranoid and immature who seek to gain ground by adding detractors instead of substance.”
Thanks for that excellent definition of yourself.
Oops, that post above was mine.
For some reason, the Typekey arbitrally signed me out.
Not deliberately nic switching here.
Interesting admission Capn. What other TypePad discussion Blog would you have been to and signed in as an occupation you’ve never been ?
You do know that is stored in cache which is usually recent. Just clear your cache via the browser tools.
The explanation is a long boring story.
Short answer to your question: none.
Back to walk-on-by.
Good morning everyone! Been gone for a while, but everything here seems to be as I left it. Republicans fear monging, and the democrats trying to find their way. Nice to see our boy GW still running our country into the ground. Cheney has declared himself to be his own branch of government. Congress still does not have the votes to override a presidential veto but the American people are to ignorant to realize it. Our troops are still dying in Iraq(the war for the last drop of oil). Gas prices are still stair stepping up higher and higher, and the housing market is going to cause a depression of our economy sooner than later. Good to be back! The more things change the more they stay the same!
I thought that the U.S. was ignoring Iraqi refugees? Yet another claim by the left that is false?
Refugees Cause Worry About Mich. EconomyAP – Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:47:37 -0400 (EDT)By JEFF KAROUB
“The area in southeast Michigan where 2,000 Iraqi refugees are expected to resettle already has 169,000 people out of work. Some fear the influx will push the state’s unemployment rate even higher”
cont’d at:
http://www.mail.com/NewsArticle.aspx?catId=2&articleId=1149447&newssiteid=1
The human race has one really effective weapon, and that is laughter.- Mark Twain
WE EDITORS:WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GET A REAL THREAD ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES?YOU HAVE THE TIME ONCE AGAIN TO HAVE AN ABORTION THREAD ABOUT THE GOP AND YOU GIVE US ANOTHER FLUFF PIECE ABOUT A DEMOCRAT.YOU CONTINUE TO SHOW YOUR COMPLETE INABILITY TO GIVE THIS BLOG ANYTHING CLOSE TO A LEGITIMATE FAIR DIALOGUE ON THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN. …..
Posted by: Nathan | July 25, 2007 at 02:51 AM
I don’t quite get this. Every day he is doing this whining, every day the same thing.
Nathan: You will never vote for a Democrat will you, regardless of their stance on anything? Wouldn’t it behoove you to focus on the threads about Republicans so you can decide which candidate to back?
Did it ever cross your mind that the majority of the Eagle and WEBlog users (assuming they match the demographics of the state of KS) are conservatives, likely Republican? With that in mind, wouldn’t it be better to have stories and topics to make people think critically about candidates and issues they are most likely to support? The role of these types of articles are not to be ‘Yes-men’ and just give you the feel good stories about Republicans good Democrats bad. If you want to hear or read that, go to Rush or O’Reilly.
Sorry I nic switched accidently!
It’s not an unreasonable request by Nathan, brian.
In fact for a thorough discussion on the candidates, both sides need to be displayed in their “good and bad” moments.
Yet, there is an apparent attempt by the WE Editors to avoid putting any Democratic Candidate in a compromised position.
I realize that Editors tend to stand away from pure Journalistic unbiased reporting. But still, enough is enough.
Let’s get some “chopping heads” threads on Democratic Candidates.
Oops, that post above was mine.
For some reason, the Typekey arbitrally signed me out.
Not deliberately nic switching here.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | July 25, 2007 at 08:20 AM
Dang, I hate those cookie things. Don’t know how they got on my pc.
Ok, I admit it.
I’ve been the troll for several months now.
I apologize to the true Republican and others out there.
I don’t know why the WE Blog allows CapnAmerica to continue to troll this blog.
He admits he’s the troll.
Shame on him.
That ASSHOLE CapnAmerica should be banned!
The housing market. From what I understand, over the next couple of years, the market is going to go thru the roof again.
All those folks that went thru predatory lenders and have variable rate mortgages are about to lose their butts. Damn shame.
That is going to re-flood the market with affordable houses. Good news for those looking to buy. Bad news for those selling.
One can only hope that lenders will allow those foreclosed on to re-borrow and maybe save their houses.
I just think nathan’s whining about “republican candidate abortion” threads is ROFLMAO funny.
Uh, wassa matter boy? Are you all of a sudden realizing it was better when the all abortion all the time agenda was secret?
Why not shine the light of day on it? I would think you would be PROUD of it. It’s the lynchpin, along with gay bashing, of the god squad republicans.
I guess he realizes the only way these republican dweebs will get elected is if the pretend to be something they are not.
Whatever happened to “the truth shall set you free”?
Oh, and since this is the OPEN thread, nathan, why dont you write a sample blog entry that YOU would like to see about the repub candidates?
If it’s not abortion all the time, do you think it will be pre-emptive attacks all the time? Is soldier boy pissed because he thinks that the war for oil is the winning issue for his party?
Uh, yeah. Go ahead. Write that thread header. Cant wait.
New week, same stuff, same trolls, same nonsense, same inane commentary.
Boring.
The republicans have plenty to be ashamed of. Abortion as an election issue is laughable.
Democrats have their share. Be fair and balanced. Let’s see some REAL threads on the democrats as well.
ksfarmgrrl, that is what I suggested to him a couple days ago. I guess whining is easier than doing something himself.
I think many of you are missing my point.
I don’t care if every thread is about abortion (well, maybe that would be a bit annoying)
What I find distrubing is that all we get is the Republicans on abortion. If you are going to make that the issue here (which is becoming very obviously the only thing the WE Editors are going to give us) then lets see it for the Democrats too.
If you review the past several months of threads here, you see critical thread after critical thread about Republicans and the GOP.
What do they give us critical about the Democrats?
A thread about Edwards hair.
We get thread after thread about Abortion amoungst the GOP.
What do we get about the Democrats?
A thread about what song Hilary will use in her campaign.
It is pure bias on the WE Editors part, intentionally or not.
Lets get some real campaign issues from all the condidates both critical and/or in agreement with.
Enough already with this crap.
DID YOU READ THIS WE EDITORS?
So… I guess that’s a no from nathan on writing his own thread?
ok. we see.
“DID YOU READ THIS WE EDITORS?”
They don’t. Where’s your thread? Provide what you say is lacking here.
First, I really do not like the whole conspiracy theory thing. For most things some people think are conspiracies, I do not think there is a conscious agreement amoung the participants to ‘conspire’ to do something.
With that said, consider these things:
If there was a sweeping abortion law change, no further abortions were ever performed in America and there was no more need for them, would that be good or bad for anti-abortion Conservative political candidates? If abortion was not an issue anymore, would Brownback be a Presidential candidate now?
Similarly, if we captured Osama, defeated all of Al Queida, and got the Shites and Sunnis to hug and skip into the sunset away together, what would change in the political arena? ‘Tough on Terror’ would not be an issue anyone could use, pro or con. National defense really would be a back burner subject on the agenda.
If the Republicans, Conservatives, and Christian Right suddenly came out (no pun intended) and said ‘You know what, we were wrong, Gay is OK, lets all get married’ and gay rights was no longer an issue, the political arena would change. Liberal candidates would no longer have that as something to distinguish them from Conservatives. It would not be an issue of discussion.
Just some food for thought.
The WE Editors form discussion and guide the discussion by the topics they give us.
Of course I could attempt to start a topic by waiting for an open thread and attempting to be the first poster, but that is highly unlikely.
Once a topic gets going, trying to Hi-Jack it in the middle is difficult if not simply missed.
I am pointing out the obvious here. The obvious lack of any balance on threads concerning the Presidential Election.
I look forward to having a discussion on more than the GOP’s latest abortion fling and/or Edwards hair and Hilary’s theme song.
I believe that the WE EDITORS can do better and should do better.
I know that Steven, KFG, and Brian couldn’t care less. They are liberals and everything is fine in their little world when there are no critical threads about the left.
At least I am not plagueing every thread about getting someones IP address like CapnAmerica.
Go talk to him about crying.
Brian,
If that came to pass (the abortion thing needs a little further discussion as there ARE times when it is the best choice) I think I would dance in the damn street in my skivvies. –might scare a few folks ;->
Out of the Mid-East, abortion agreed upon, ‘terror’ gone, gay marriage no longer an issue.
Holy crap man, we might actually be able to work on OUR nation and get back on track. Xanadu.
Nathan–
Did you willfully misrepresent my position or did you not read the relevant posts thoroughly?
Because that’s not what I was arguing and I’m surprised you couldn’t see that.
Anyway, maybe the Editors don’t run critical threads on the Dems because they are lying hypocrites.
Ever consider that possibility, Nathan?
they are NOT lying hypocrites . . .
Actually the characterization by the Dems that Republicans want to talk about abortion all the time is false.
The Right won the last two Presidential elections because they talked about real issues.
There is a deliberate attempt by the MSM to give the Democrats a bye when discussing abortion and constantly drone out some tired old mantra on the abortion issue to hammer the Right over the head with.
I personally tire of the issue and don’t care if I ever see it again the rest of my life.
Nathan has pointed out the disproportional thread topics on the Republican side that have started with disparaging remarks and generally mocking their faith or aligning them with the War, whether they want to be aligned with it or not.
Nathan does indeed have a point.
There needs to be thread topics on Democratic Candidates that reveal the whole story, not just “feel good” stories.
Notes CapnAmerica is not on his Typekey account.
Good post, Brian.
Once you get past the emotionally charged issues, the real problems confronting our country emerge–global warming, dependence on foreign oil, jobs, health-care, pension protection.
CapnAmerica,
Sorry. I know what you are talking about.
I was simply using you to illustrate my point to those who think I am somehow being a pest by comparing myself to you.
You are not a bother to me. Just illustrating that you have been harping on something much longer than I have been in many more threads.
Yeah, Kansas, this ruddy system. It logs me in and out without me changing anything.
There’s no deception involved . . .
Ah, okay, Nathan. Thanks.
I don’t think you’re a pest.
We may not often agree, but you’re an honest participant on the Blog, IMHO.
What this means is that our job of congressional clean up is not complete. Voters made a good start last year, but we must continue next year, recruiting and electing more true reformers to replace the business-as-usual crowd that’s clogging up both parties.
Tracy–
That’s what I think too.
Too much status-quo thinking on both sides . . . the two wings of the BIG CORPORATION party.
… and NO WHERE is that more clear than in Kansas. If tried to shove a toothpick in the gap that represents the differences between repukes and dems in kanasas, you couldnt do it.
The “gap” is too small. There are no differences. Just look at how fluid the line is for politicians switching parties.
And will continue to be so, as long as campaigns cost as they do, in an ever-increasing spiral, and continue to lengthen. We, the People, need to exercise the only effective term limits necessary, by registering to vote and then voting them out of office if that’s how we truly feel.
I renew my plan on campaign finance reform: Only natural persons may donate, no limits on donations, with full disclosure of names and amounts not later than 48 hours after the donation on a third-party website (FEC, perhaps), combined with a repeal of section 527, IRC, and abolition of PACs on all sides of the political spectrum.
I guess that’s because the same money buys BOTH parties?
Farm Bureau, Kansas Livestock Association, Corn Growers, Implement and Seed Dealers, Trial Lawyers, etc.
Meet the new boss same as the old boss. And the sheeple sleep….
VT, it seems to me that the folks who benefit the MOST from the outrageous cost of campaigns are the media. TV and print.
If they werent getting the money for all those “ads”, campaigns wouldnt cost so much. Hell, election time is HARVEST time for media, large and small, in Kansas and elsewhere.
Follow the money.
Campaign reform has been ignored by both sides. There is an awfully lot of “loose” money floating around out there and much of it although accounted for is disguised on actually what it pays for and what it delivers.
kfg, follow the money. Best advice I can offer, too.
Grrl, Sounds like Texas of the past. Repubs and Dems? Just different flavors of Dems.
Hey VT,You’re a lawyer, don’t seem to be swayed by either party, damn intelligent, why don’t you run for local office?
WE Bloggers, start a petition to get VT out there, in office, and representing you !!!!
Yep, it’s time for WE THE PEOPLE to take back our country and we can do that at the polls. It will take some patience because we’re dealing with some who won’t recognize that we’re paying attention and realize they better think about something more than their pocketbooks and getting reelected.
We have big problems and for the most part if they are currently in office they are part of those problems.
Generalizations are never good or wholly accurate. There may be some who want to work on our country’s real problems but they’re sure doing a great job of hiding it.
We can make them accountable!
Vaughn Tolle prefers his hair and skin to stay in tact in lieu of running for office. :)
VT isn’t a politician! Don’t even try to put him into that category; he is head and shoulders above that.
Linda, I totally agree. And THAT is the problem. GOOD folks wont run.
And frankly, the bad guys dont WANT them to run.
You don’t have to be a politician to run Linda. And suggesting that he run is not an insult.
Goes to show you what y’all think about your politicians. The ones here suck too. But if someone decent and intelligent were to run, I certainly wouldn’t think less of him/her. With that mentality, will you ever elect a decent government?
Hmmm… looks like flip flop spector is trying to play both sides of the fence. Nice job of switching from enabler to critic. I think the term is “too little too late”
“Source: The Politico
Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) plans to review the Senate testimony of U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel J. Alito to determine if their reversal of several long-standing opinions conflicts with promises they made to senators to win confirmation.
Specter, who championed their confirmation, said Tuesday he will personally re-examine the testimony to see if their actions in court match what they told the Senate.
“There are things he has said, and I want to see how well he has complied with it,” Specter said, singling out Roberts.
The Specter inquiry poses a potential political problem for the GOP and future nominees because Democrats are increasingly complaining that the Supreme Court moved quicker and more dramatically than advertised to overturn or chip away at prior decisions.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0707/5099.html
You mean they LIED in order to stack SCOTUS? You mean the freakin’ DEMOCRATS didnt catch it?
I’m shocked, SHOCKED, I say that Alito and Roberts lied in order to get their court annointments.
But hell, at least spector is asking the questions. I guess the democrats are so embarassed by being made the bitches of Alito and Roberts that THEY dont even want to bring it up!
Meet the new boss same as the old boss….
I really like Vaughn’s plan for finance reform. Let the people, and only the people, speak. Go on record with your donation.
Let the biased influence of PACs/unions/’insert special interest cover’ go away.
You’re so right Sol and my knee jerk reaction to separate VT from politicians proves your point.
Boy, that last question you posed is one we all need to think long and hard about.
…will you ever elect a decent government?
PM, I would also include the influence of those tax exempt “churches” and terry, joe and fred in that.
Linda,
I think the problem lies with the people. Too many are ‘knee-jerk’ party liners. A lot of other voters go by ad campaigns alone.
I wonder, if questioned after a vote, if the voter a) understood the issues b) understood the candidate’s position on the issue and c) knew the candidate’s voting record prior to said election.
Uninformed unmotivated voting mass. All fed by the media. Yipee yah hoo. I love freedom.
And I’ll put it out there again. VT is an intelligent seemingly unaffiliated individual with a law background. Why not run VT?
Sol, I’m flattered. Why not run? I’ve never had political aspirations, don’t need that to feed my already over-sized ego. Plus, I’d likely anger the majority of the voters with my positions on various issues. Not to mention that I don’t suffer fools gladly, which is a bit antithetical to being involved as a candidate for office.
“Too many are ‘knee-jerk’ party liners. A lot of other voters go by ad campaigns alone.”
And a lot of other voters go to the polls and do, without thinking, whatever the pope or terry, joe and fred tell them to do.
You said: “Uninformed unmotivated voting mass. All fed by the media. Yipee yah hoo. I love freedom.”
I could have just as easily said “Uninformed unmotivated voting mass. All fed by the CHURCHES. Yipee yah hoo. I love freedom.”
“Not to mention that I don’t suffer fools gladly, which is a bit antithetical to being involved as a candidate for office.”
Heheheheheh, VT, I can relate.
Unfortunately, that not suffering fools gladly is JUST what we need in elected officials.
And just what the sheeple will never vote for.
That’s a shame VT. Hey, look at Ahhhhnoold. He butts heads in CA. You may not be as — :: big :: — as Ahhnoold, but I bet you could hold your own.
Grrl,
Damn funny you mention that. I flipped thru some channels Sunday morning and every damn one of them was preaching about Iran. Gave me a cold chill. Freakin scary.
My Dad is a 3rd degree knight in the KOC. He was told by the KOC leadership and the priest that a Catholic COULD NOT VOTE for a candidate that was pro-choice. Pissed him off pretty good.
Spot on farmie. Thanx for bringing it up.
Sorry, to clarify the last – the televised evangelist/church services were preaching about Iran…
The House and contempt charges:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/25/AR2007072501104.html?hpid=topnews
Research on the House issuing contempt charges:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34097.pdf
“Sorry, to clarify the last – the televised evangelist/church services were preaching about Iran”
Well HELL, solly, the WE does it too. They print “values” boy like he has something to do with “values”.
Jesus wept. He’s nothing more than a republican shill in religious disguise. A favorite amongst talibaners everywhere.
I challenge you to find ONE column he’s had published here that DOESNT push the republican position.
Values indeed. And the lack of integrity continues. Why not call him what he is.
A republican pundit.
I guess if the WE thinks he is any kind of “values” guy, that is more like the kids playing peekaboo.
If they cover their eyes, they think you cant see them….
Everyone else can see the 800 pound gorilla in the room except for the party its self. It will not matter if we loose the White House and both houses if we are losing the young and most of the base. It is time to face the shortcomings and address them. There are real problems facing not just the party but the country, if we do not work to fix them and admit that they are real and not just Partisanship. It will be left to others to take the lead and we loose any hope of remaining a viable choice.
Posted by: writerdog | July 25, 2007 at 03:01 AM
Writerdog you are expressing feeling I’ve had with the party since the performance of the conservatives in the last congress when they finally had a majority.
I do disagree in part. I believe the party sees the problem(s), but they don’t know how to mend it. There is too much disagreement within on what the final product should look like.For instance, I know what platform items I think they should stand strong on (and vote on), and which they should be willing to concede. But I don’t see that big pow-wow happening at the party level.
Unless a clear leader comes forward now, the white house will be Hillary/Bill. There is not enough name recognition in the press for a conservative to get elected (gosh forbid enough discussion on the issues).
So start working on a base looking beyond the white house.
But I personally think without something radically new, we are stuck with the middle America red states and the populous blue. What drives the masses in the blue is what works for highly populated urban areas and it is ever growing.
No matter what either party does, we are roughly split and we are going to have another Florida close election forever.
Maybe we start having more babies and bigger families in the red states!!! When the nation votes 49-51 percent for congress and the presidency, there isn’t a lot of wiggle room either way. No clear majority or DIRECTION can be claimed by either party for our Nation.
“If tried to shove a toothpick in the gap that represents the differences between repukes and dems in kanasas, you couldnt do it.”
That is true in a lot of states.
What happened to CapN?? For somebody who couldnt get his type-thingy to work, He sure had a lot of posts… Hmmmm
“That is true in a lot of states.”
No shit pk. That’s the problem…
Hotdog1, under the heading of “unintended consequences”, what if the population boom you urge for the “red states” all grow up and move to the “blue states”, much as I see happening here in Kansas. You might want to reconsider your action plan there.
the televised evangelist/church services were preaching about Iran…
Posted by: SolDevVB | July 25, 2007 at 11:44 AM
============================
Sol, while the religious right churches were all on fire over Iran, the nit wit president of Iran, was most likely off somewhere preaching about the coming of the TRUE IMAM… that little kid that fell down the well, a couple thousand years ago… That IMAM is supposed to usher in the “end of the world”
Sad thing is, the religious rightis all hyped up over much the same thing… Iran symbolizes the beginning of the great “battle of armageddon” or the beginning of the “great tribulation” and of course, the beginning of the “end of the world”
In so many ways, this stupid war is a war of clashing religious beliefs… much like the Crusades of ancient times…
THEY are looking for and preparing for the “end of the world” And a whole lot of Christians are also looking for and preparing for the “end of the world”
And each side calls the other side the Great Satan, or Anti-Christ, or something defaming…
KFG, pk is my youngest kid… :-)
Steven Davis,
Indeed–contempt of Congress charges have been voted through the House Judiciary Committee against Harriet Miers and Kyle Sampson.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Prosecutors-Contempt.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
It’s a good day for America.
Funny to hear the Republicans on the Committee (Cannon, Sensenbrenner) whining that a constitutional showdown isn’t the proper forum for deciding the weight of Congress’ “inherent powers” versus the powers of “Executive Privilege.” They’d prefer to see the question raised as a civil action, independently of the issues that are specific to Miers and Sampson.
Cannon and Sensenbrenner both seem to be arguing that Executive Privilege overrides Congress’ inherent power to issue subpeonas and call witnesses. I wonder what our resident legal folks think about that claim?
Of course churches are criticized by the left. And part of it is even justified. But what is happening is political. Churches frequently stand in the gap, squarely in the way of the liberal agenda.
Do they go overboard at times? Sure. In any organization, there will be overly enthusiastic extremists. But efforts to tag an entire group with the actions of the extremists are dishonest.
For instance the mantra, “Terry, Joe, Fred”. Which is hateful and dishonest in and of itself by including Fox and Wright in with Phelps. But that’s you know who for ya.
And funny, but I’ve not heard one sermon about Iraq at the church I attend or any of those I have visited.
Max,
Your “solution” effectively destroys Social Security by privatizing the contributions of younger workers.
Can’t say whether or not this is your tacit intention. But it certainly is the tacit goal for Bush’s earlier proposals to “save” Social Security.
CF2K,
I am not sure how allowing people to invest, I believe it was 2%, of their Social Secuiry into private funds is hardly the death of Social Security.
“And a whole lot of Christians are also looking for and preparing for the “end of the world”"
Well chas, as a minister, don’t you remember that that is part of Christ’s message? Preparing yourself because no one knows the hour or the day?
Hey Cap’N. Hope ‘Frisco (SF’ers HATE IT when I call it that!) is treating you well.
If you’re in the Mission District, stop in at a place that holds fond family memories for CF2K:
http://www.luccaravioli.com/
TTFN
I’m back Chas.
Just got a little behind here in San Francisco, but I’m back now.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | July 25, 2007 at 12:26 PM
Excuse me? San Francisco = gay or something.
I keep telling you trolls, I’m not GOOD LOOKING enough to be gay.
Needless to say, that wasn’t my post.
CF2K–
You beat me to it.
Subpeonas, subpeonas, and then sentencing.
Yup, let the healing begin . . .
Of course, Worst. President. Ever. will just commute their sentences, but at least the whole world will see him spitting in the face of democracy and justice this time.
Max,
You’re arguing semantics. Converting SS to mandatory private savings = destroying SS. Period.
Your ideological hysteria regarding one generation “charging” another as socialism is laughable. Ever heard of child-rearing, Max? Or caring for the elderly? Both of these institutional practices are milennia old, and neither one can function very long according to a simplistic capitalist motive of self-interest.
It’s also funny to hear you contemptuously dismiss those who receive SS benefits as irresponsible and dependent. The libertarian fantasy of complete person independence is dead on arrival, in theory and in practice. Human beings need one another to survive. We are interdependent, by nature.
The assumptions guiding your prescription about how to fix Social Security depend on a fictional account of human beings. The prescription itself is no less fictional.
Oh Good Lord…. here we go again, and its only a little past Noon… I had a feeling about that CapN… and you might want to check upthread too…
The problem I see the most with any political reform in America is this: most people follow politics like they follow sports.
They have a favorite team, one that can do no wrong. If there is a problem it is someone else’s fault – the ump made a bad call, it is a rebuilding year, the other team is cheating, whatever.
They support the most popular team in their area. In Kansas, we like the Chiefs and Republicans.
They learn the good stats about their teams players and the bad stats about the other teams. How many TDs the Chiefs running back has, and how many penalty yards the Raiders have.
They do not question if they are backing the right team; it is almost sacrilegious to question why someone is a Chiefs fan instead of a Raiders fan. How many sports fans have you heard say ‘I think an up the middle running game is the best way to play. I will support the Bears because they have a similar offensive strategy.’ Many people do (or don’t do as the case here is) the same with their political voting.
People identify with the label more than with the ideals. ‘He does not know anything about offense, he is a Raider fan.’ People put Chiefs, Royals, KU, KSTATE, etc stickers on their cars, wear team clothing, paint their faces, etc to say ‘I support this team.’ We see the same on these blogs and other political forums with politics. ‘Damn Liberals.’ ‘He does not care about individual freedoms, he is a Republican.’
We need to get away from this mentality to make any real political progress.
Here is a tangible first step: remove the party affiliation labels from the voting ballots.
“Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | July 25, 2007 at 12:25 PM
Uh, that wasnt my post. So the nic stealer is back. I guess if you cant win on substance, you can always nic swtich.
WE editors, please remove that post.
Maybe if we all ask the eds to remove nic stealing posts, they will be so busy they will FINALLY ban this asshole.
Nice touch on the nic stealing. GMC, wanna defend this guy again?
Outie? Max? BG? Nathan? Waiting on you all to call out the RIGHT WING nic stealer.
Sigh . . . Just like the old days, I sign on to find out what “I” wrote.
Let the record show–The TROLLing only goes one way.
C’mon, GMC, tell me how much it doesn’t bother you that I’m getting s*** posted over my nic.
Your tolerance for my annoyance is truly heroic . . .
WALK ON BY.
Well chas, as a minister, don’t you remember that that is part of Christ’s message? Preparing yourself because no one knows the hour or the day?
Posted by: outlander | July 25, 2007 at 12:31 PM
======================
I ALSO remember, as a minister, that Jesus ALSO said that there are NO SIGNS of the end… NO SIGNS… But so many of the religious right are SO CERTAIN that it is coming soon, because they have seen the “SIGNS” –
Yep.. They have seen the signs that Jesus said DONT EXIST
KFG
I’ve never defended “this guy.” Nor have I ever defended nic stealing.
You know that, of course.
And Capn, that is a mischaracterization of my position, and our conversation of the other day.
But you know that too. Others here, who followed that conversation, also know that.
Just setting the record straight.
It’s not the first time you’ve been trolled today, Capn.
A likely candidate would be mr. christian meltdown guy, the guy who had his personal moment in public a while back. He’s calling upthread to have Capn banned and it would be just like this dipshit to whiff completely on the concept that trolling in support of troll removal is morally bankrupt to the point it smells. Reeks, in fact.
Check out the trolled posts, esp. the trolled kfg at 12:25PM. That’s got Republican’s syntax all over it (no comma before Chas, “panties in a bind” instead of bunch, etc.)
Max, JESUS gives NO SIGNS of the end… He calls it “A Thief in the Night” Because no Thief in the Night telegraphs his/her plans to you ahead… No Thief breaking in at night gives you clues as to when or where they will strike… Thus, If there are NO SIGNS for a Thief, there are ALSO no signs of any end day…
That is why all of the “end times” preachers are all bogus!!
“KFG
I’ve never defended “this guy.” Nor have I ever defended nic stealing.
You know that, of course.
Posted by: GMC70 | July 25, 2007 at 12:43 PM
So DENOUNCE him GMC. Ask him to stop doing it. Or are you defending him with your silence.
Outie, nathan, BG, max? Still not hearing you call for him to be banned.
Your silence here is deafening.
So max, will YOU let the nic stealer go on and kill threads?
And as captain noted, the nic stealing is only done by those on the right. No comment on THAT?
Anybody who has ever done any writing style analysis, knows who the Troll is… It is called “textual criticism” Pedant just pointed out some of the means of identifying that kind of thing… Thanks Pedant…
KFG, could be that Max, and BG and outie are the same??? Maybe??
See my comment on Textual analysis
Chas,
Where did Jesus say there would be no signs?
He did indeed say he would come like a thief in the night, but this doesn’t preclude the fact that the Bible does tell us there will be and are signs before the end.
I’m PUBLICLY calling for the nic stealing troll to be permanently banned from this blog.
Will anyone from the right join me? This is NOT a freedom of speech issue, no matter HOW you try to spin it.
Nothing will happen with this troll until you righties call him out and join us in asking for him to be banned.
Of course, maybe you all like it that he does this.
Remember righties, the nic stealing troll is YOURS.
You must be ever so proud…
ANYBODY that comes here to blog and expects to NOT find trolls and nutballs,well how about this definition of insanity:
DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND ALWAYS EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS.
Sorry folks, but thats the truth as I see it.This blog has already developed it’s personality.Known far and wide as a hangout for trolls/nutballs.
I’m the latter, not a troll….for those of you about to go ballistic.
Ummm Nathan, NO it does not… JESUS himself says He comes as a Thief in the Night… One more time…. Does a thief telegraph his intentions??? Does he send out a flier saying he is going to be in the neighborhood, so be sure to watch for him???
Jesus ALSO says Not the Angels in the Heaven, Not the Son, but the Father ONLY knows…
And obviously, he isnt telling!
So, if there are SIGNS, then Jesus must be lying???
KFG,
I find your posts regularly more insulting and inflamitory than his have ever been.
Believe me, I would be calling for you to be banned before Kansas.
Chas,
You seem to have a problem with words. It is becoming a pattern.
You said:
“I ALSO remember, as a minister, that Jesus ALSO said that there are NO SIGNS of the end… NO SIGNS…”
Now I am asking you to show me where Jesus ever said any such thing.
KFG, We’ve been over all this.
Remember?
Boycott?
Unity, etc…..
Good luck.
This blog is what it is.
Not using your typekey/typepad account Nathan??
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
hehehehe. Nice try nathan. No one is talking about banning “offensive posts”.
This is nic stealing.
So apparantly, that’s a YES for nathan on supporting the troll and his nic stealing ways.
How appropriate for mr. stars and stripes christian to support theft and dishonesty.
Is that what they teach you in the military?
Nathan, why do you get so ridiculuous when you are proven to be wrong??? Matthew 24… Jesus says NO SIGNS… How many different ways can it be said??? IF he comes as a thief in the night, AGAIN, YOU show ME where any thief announces his intentions to you before he breaks into your house???
YOUR TURN to show it this time, whippersnapper…. IF you are even Nathan….
“DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND ALWAYS EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS.”
True enough. Yea, I could go ballistic, and denounce him. Spend endless time whining about it. Cry to the editors, again.
It’s been real effective so far, but sure.
Here ya go: Troll, stop that.
Happy now, KFG?
Actually, KFG has suggested perhaps the best option. Put the hassle on the editors by asking them, repeatedly, every time, to remove any post trolled. If it becomes a hassle to them, they may do what they can to solve the problem.
Lacking that, bottom line is that this forum is what it is, has always been, and yet you keep coming back. To whine, yet again.
You must be ever so proud…Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | July 25, 2007 at 12:55 PM
Farm grrrl – you $h1t, you stole that from me ;->
KFG,I find your posts regularly more insulting and inflamitory than his have ever been.Believe me, I would be calling for you to be banned before Kansas.Posted by: Nathan | July 25, 2007 at 12:56 PM
Nathan, the point is he is posting and posing as someone else –
$h1t, am I feeding the troll??
CHECK THE TYPEPAD LINKS
Republican,
Please. PLEASE stop.
I am at this point OFF of the Blog, until I announce in a post, that I am BACK…. If I see any posts using my nic, it will be sent to the WEBlog editors…
I am gone at 1:02 p.m.
Tracy, you are correct.
I’m not willing to let the right wing trolls here kill the blog because they cant make a point on substance.
This is an opportunity for the right to call out the nic stealing troll. I dont see it happening.
And for anyone still reading this blog (fewer and fewer I suppose) that should be obvious.
So I wonder if there will be another McClatch seminar someday using the demise of the WE blog as an example to their other papers on how NOT to mangage a blog?
Shameful. Just SHAMEFUL that you chritian patriots refuse to call out this nut job.
It’s so damned simple people.
1)Go to your favorite myspace equivelant.
2) Set up a spot, even if you don’t ever use it.
3)Cutnpaste the address into the post a comment, URL: area.
Voila!
Now you have a completely unique spot that verifies if it is you posting as whoever.
IT’S FREEIT’S EASY(so much easier than coming here bitching about everyone being trolls)
IT’S COMMON SENSE!
Tracy, you are correct.
I’m not willing to let the right wing trolls here kill the blog because they cant make a point on substance.
This is an opportunity for the right to call out the nic stealing troll. I dont see it happening.
And for anyone still reading this blog (fewer and fewer I suppose) that should be obvious.
So I wonder if there will be another McClatch seminar someday using the demise of the WE blog as an example to their other papers on how NOT to mangage a blog?
Shameful. Just SHAMEFUL that you christian patriots refuse to call out this nut job.
NUFF SAID?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I agree, TRACY, this unmoderated typepad crap is crap.
McClatchy should invest in a .php coder and have this thing properly formatted for “disussion.” I’ve seen .php blogs that while not foolproof with good a moderator or two could end this crap in about two shakes.
That said, ksfarmgrrl is completely in the right here. The blog may be what it is, and no more, but that doesn’t mean nic-stealing is right.
grrl may piss people off (and imo GMC70 has the *only* valid reason to be pissed) but I’d bet everything I have she’s never stolen a thing, much less any of your nicknames. For any reason.
It’s so damned simple people.
1)Go to your favorite myspace equivelant.
2) Set up a spot, even if you don’t ever use it.
3)Cutnpaste the address into the post a comment, URL: area.
Voila!
Now you have a completely unique spot that verifies if it is you posting as whoever.
IT’S FREEIT’S EASY(so much easier than coming here bitching about everyone being trolls)
IT’S COMMON SENSE!
Chas,
This is what Jesus says in Matthew 24, which by the way is titled:
Signs of the End of the Age
1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2″Do you see all these things?” he asked. “I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,[a]‘ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9″Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15″So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[b] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.
26″So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29″Immediately after the distress of those days” ‘the sun will be darkened,and the moon will not give its light;the stars will fall from the sky,and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[c]
30″At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32″Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
PED.Were you here for the “boycott”?If so, you know it’s useless.
I SAY, TAKE MY LEAD.
Set up your spot.
DO THE NEXT RIGHT THING.
I think there should be a new government program enacted to regulate this blog. Fully funded with millions of tax dollars.
Petty fools…
And of course I wrote right over an even cheaper solution, TRACY’s posted at 1:03PM.
Yeah, that or something like it should work.
KFG,
When I first came here I thought this should be more like a forum. Where you have to have a regestered name to prevent things like this from happening.
I do not support it. I do not condone it.
I don’t know who is doing it.
Click on my name.It takes you to the spot I have set up.I seriuosly doubt that anyone posting here would go to all the trouble of setting up an exact copy, just to troll my moniker.
Is anybody getting this?
“I am not sure how allowing people to invest, I believe it was 2%, of their Social Secuiry into private funds is hardly the death of Social Security.”
Posted by: Nathan | July 25, 2007 at 12:30 PM
To understand the problems that causes, read the text, see graph at,”REASON #2: Creating private accounts would make Social Security’s financing problem worse, not better.”http://www.socsec.org/publications.asp?pubid=503#2
also very large administrative costs,”REASON #8: Private accounts would require a new government bureaucracy.”
Go to instaspot.You don’t have to suffer the embarrasment of having a ‘myspace’.
MYSPACE:Millions served,only 30,000 registered sex offenders.
Sigh. Ok. I probably should add that to recycling and looking for shingles made from old discarded tires.
TRACY, if I go to MySpace will I start to grow boobs or anything weird like that?
Crap, give me a couple days.
thank you nathan
What a piece of $h1t worthless little turd. You can’t defend your positions. You have conversations with yourself. You steal other people’s –names- because you have made your own worthless.
AFTER THESE SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONSNOBODY HAS AN EXCUSEGET A SPOT OR BE A TROLL
THERE, I SAID IT!!!!
GO TO INSTASPOT.COM
It’s very easy.Others here already hang out there.
Tracy:
I may just take the plunge and take you up on your solution.
This from a guy who calls my kid to figure out how to get the “thingy” to go away on the screen.
Test
OK back briefly…
“Signs of the End of the Age”
Nathan, that TITLE, as you call it, is not in the Greek Text… It is put there by your Bible Publisher… That does not make it correct… And WHY did you not post Mt. 24:36??? Maybe because it backfires on whatever you are trying to prove with all the rest of that???
Check out the “Lightning from east to west” That has NO SIGN either… But Verse 36 is the REAL crusher to your “prophecy” theories…
OK, so how do you get your typepad/typekey acct to reference another page?
Tracy, I have that URL thing on here set to a web site… I change it from time to time… Does that work out ok too??
How did you do that Chas?
You might want to reconsider your action plan there.
Posted by: Vaughn Tolle | July 25, 2007 at 12:16 PM
Darn Vaughn, you are so right. Ya got me. Both my kids have left for greener pastures. One’s for sure in a red state, but how does Nevada count now that they have leadership in Congress?
But I left too, but came back in middle life. So that must count too.
Sol, I just typed in the web site I wanted to use… click on save information
Sol, I think (never actually done this) you DO NOT sign in to TypeKey / TypePad;when you fill in the three spaces with name, email and URL you put the web address you want your name to show when moused over.
Thats what I did Linda.. then I change the URL every now and then..
This is a test.
OK… now, I am gone again… leaving at 1:38 p.m. I will post again when I get back.. See you folks later!!
Right, Max.
You “get it.” When people nic-switch and steal people’s nics, it totally disrupts the thread.
Condemn the disruptor troll, not its victims.
Thanx linda & chas.
Chas,
Once again, you clearly said that Jesus said there would be no signs:
“I ALSO remember, as a minister, that Jesus ALSO said that there are NO SIGNS of the end… NO SIGNS…”
Where is that in the Bible?
You have yet to show me the verse where Jesus says there are no signs.
Matthew 24:36 doesn’t say there will be no signs.
It says we will not know the hour. I agree. Christians who study and preach about the signs of the end times do not believe they know the hour, they do believe there will be signs as I posted in Matthew 24.
You skipped the entire chapter and focused only on the title. The chapter clearly shows signs.
Max–
Any time the gov’t taxes people and spends those taxes, it’s a kind of wealth distribution or “socialism.”
The military is a huge exercise in “socialism.” Not only does the gov’t provide wages and equipment to service personnel, it provides food, housing, medical care, pensions etc. etc.
It’s the closest thing to womb-to-tomb gov’t control we’ve got.
You’re not against the military, are you?
Actually, I am. This is one kind of big gov’t program that could be better left to citizens, like before the standing Army was created.
I think the standing Army should be abolished. The founders never wanted one, and that’s why they never created one. They knew full well that when oppression comes, it comes from the barrel of a nation’s own Army.
Our military has successful resisted politicization . . . so far. But it is sucking down more and more of our tax dollars. 51 percent of all income taxes go to the military (social security and medicare have special taxes).
We should go back to the citizen militias, IMHO.
But my main point is, without taxes and gov’t, modern civilization is impossible. The question is not “do we want government,” the question is how much government do we want?
Social security has worked well for 70 years. The only program now funded by the gov’t that IS NOT in deficit spending.
It’s “bankruptcy” is based on overly pessimistic projections by people who want to destroy it.
Democrats on abortion:The U.S. House has approved a new bill opposed by pro-life advocates, whose sponsors falsely claim will reduce the number of abortions. The measure, called the “Reducing the Need for Abortions Initiative” became a part of the annual legislation that funds the Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education departments for 2008. The bill was formerly a creation of Democrats for Life that promoted several methods of reducing abortions by supporting both pro-life legislation that directly reduces abortions with provisions providing funding and help for pregnant women to reduce the financial incentive that compels some to think abortion is their best solution. However, the sponsors changed the makeupof the bill to shift the emphasis to promoting contraception and the morning-after abortifacient pill, and Democrats for Life, along with top pro-life Democrats in the House, withdrew its support.The legislation which would reduce abortions, other than the abolition of the abortion industry, is parental notification and consent, informed consent with ultrasound viewing and alternative counseling, and cutting taxpayer funding to Planned Parenthood and other abortion mills. Funneling taxpayer money to Planned Parenthood for condoms and contraceptives, and the dangerous Plan B morning-after abortifacient, will NOT reduce unintended pregnancies or abortions.This bill is not common ground, it is burial ground for babies.
“Its,” not “it’s” . . . hate when I do that . . .
Democrats on abortion:The U.S. House has approved a new bill opposed by pro-life advocates, whose sponsors falsely claim will reduce the number of abortions. The measure, called the “Reducing the Need for Abortions Initiative” became a part of the annual legislation that funds the Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education departments for 2008. The bill was formerly a creation of Democrats for Life that promoted several methods of reducing abortions by supporting both pro-life legislation that directly reduces abortions with provisions providing funding and help for pregnant women to reduce the financial incentive that compels some to think abortion is their best solution. However, the sponsors changed the makeupof the bill to shift the emphasis to promoting contraception and the morning-after abortifacient pill, and Democrats for Life, along with top pro-life Democrats in the House, withdrew its support.The legislation which would reduce abortions, other than the abolition of the abortion industry, is parental notification and consent, informed consent with ultrasound viewing and alternative counseling, and cutting taxpayer funding to Planned Parenthood and other abortion mills. Funneling taxpayer money to Planned Parenthood for condoms and contraceptives, and the dangerous Plan B morning-after abortifacient, will NOT reduce unintended pregnancies or abortions.This bill is not common ground, it is burial ground for babies.
Ok, whoever the trool is, please stop. I don’t care if you post under 20 other nics, it’s wrong and way too disruptive to impersonate.
There. I’m sure that will make everything all better.
BTW, I like the word “trool”, rather than troll ever since someone posted it with a typo. Short for TRansforming fOOL.
“Abortions aren’t really surgery, they aren’t sterile procedures.”. . . Atlantic City abortion mill killing staff member, defending the practice of not scrubbing between abortions, due to lack of hot water and a scrub sink, one of many cleanliness deficiencies cited in a 116-page inspection report that shut down the mill[Kansas government does not inspect abortion mills until a criminal complaint is filed, due to the political influence of abortionist quacks over Democrats and RINOs.]
Even the angels in heaven don’t know the time, only the Father knows.
That’s good enough for me.
Also, all those “end time” prophecies already came true.
The “abomination in the Temple” was the statue of Jupiter the Romans tried to put in the Jewish Holy Site.
The two failed political rebellions after Jesus’s death clearly describe a time when it was “woe to them born in those days.”
The victory of the Church over pagan Rome could be seen as the beginning of the “kingdom” on Earth.
“Also, all those “end time” prophecies already came true.”
Maybe, maybe not.
It may not make everything better, but you’re taking a stand for what’s right and letting the TROLL know that it’s not winning in style points among the conservative side.
Thank you, outlander.
Where’s the ACLU to defend the troll’s rights? Outrageous.
“Funneling taxpayer money to Planned Parenthood for condoms and contraceptives, and the Plan B morning-after, will NOT reduce unintended pregnancies or abortions.”
So preventing pregnancy in the first place would not reduce the number of uninteded pregnancies and resulting abortions?Huh?
(BTW, the morning after pill does not ‘abort’. It prevents implantation of the fertilzed egg on the uterine wall. Most pro-lifer’s say that life begins when a viable egg implements, thus Plan B does not cause abortion.)
Since all these recent posts over “CapnAmerica” are sans-Typekey, I’m going to assume he’s being trolled.
And here’s a fact, not an assumption: The troll is a pathetic, hateful piece of subhuman garbage. It should crawl back into the sewer from which it came.
Parkay, you’re crazy. The morning after pill is not an abortion pill. This report shows clearly that it does NOT cause an abortion.
popcouncil.org/publications/popbriefs/pb11(2)_3.html
It’s the ONLY study that ever tried to actually clarify the mode of action of contraception. It was always GUESSED at how it worked. Many drugs are guessed at how they reach the effected outcome.
As far as abortion as sterile, no- it’s not, but you also have to clarify that sterile in medical terms is not the same as using sterile instruments. Sterile technique and clean technique are different. Anytime you do something you use sterile instruments, but that doesn’t mean the technique is sterile.
Obviously they should have heated water and be as clean as possible and use sterile instruments. But not going in like you would sterile in an operating room.
Tom–
I sign in to TypeKey. And I post a few times.
And the next thing I know, I’m no longer posting in TypeKey.
Not enough of a computer jockey to have any idea of why.
Anyway, if it looks like dog crap and smells like dog crap, it’s probably something the TROLL left . . .
Parkay, is there nothing else you can talk about? Seriously, the broken record routine is getting pretty old.
Capn,
If you leave the URL where you are signed in, TypePad gets confused and will sign you out.
Mozilla FireFox is especially bad for this. I have this problem sometimes with FireFox. Internet Explorer (the latest version) doesn’t appear to be as bad.
That’s why the nic “Republican” pops up for me instead of TypePad nic “Kansas” sometimes, because FireFox has signed me out.
I like FireFox because of the spelling checker so I just accept the inconvenience of the bug.
Lynz,
How much would you bet that while Troyboy is in Iraq, bringing his own form of terrorism to an already terrorized population, these posts from “Parkay” will stop?
It would be almost too good to be true. A girl can dream though, right?
Theonly problem with the folks using an existing site is:I can still post here as Chasand use the same FBI website.Or I can post as Tom, and enter the text “what gay agenda”
Voila’
I am now free to be you.Need I demonstrate?
Maybe he’ll convert to Islam while he’s over there.
Or perhaps an Iraqi will apply Sharia law to him, and have him executed for trying to convert Muslims to Christianity.
It could happen, you know.
Tracy,
I’m sure there is more than one way to hack the Typekey system.
It would be nice if we could just expect people to be honest and honorable.
But alas…
Tracy, I’m sure you’re super, but NO ONE can be Tom. No one. ;)
Lynz,
It’s not like there’s a line or something.
Why the hell not??
Sol,
You found the way that I wasn’t going to mention. I kind of wish you hadn’t posted it; now the troll will use it.
So much for WEBlog. R.I.P.
Nathan — When you can learn how to READ, then I will possibly talk about this farther… But since you REFUSE to read what I told you before, I cannot have a discussion with stupidity….
I am back in a 3:22 p.m.
I’m here too. It’s 3:24
well, gee… a truly fitting nic name LOL
Now it’s 3:28 and I’m still here.
and you are still a real SOB too
have fun Troll!! C ya sometime
Attn Trolls: Please stop being trolls.
There. Problem solved.
Symbolism over substance. Makes a lib feeeeeeeel goooooood.
OH WELL, I TRIED.FORGOT THE OBVIOUSAGAIN!
If everyone will post as me with my blogspot the problem will be solved.
At this point chas, if it really was you who posted at 3:22, you are a liar.
You are purposefully distorting the words of Jesus to represent whatever lies you are pushing.
I have asked you several times to show where Jesus ever said:
“I ALSO remember, as a minister, that Jesus ALSO said that there are NO SIGNS of the end… NO SIGNS…”
There is no verse that I know of which states so clearly and bluntly that there are no signs by Jesus.
You are a liar.
I have given you several chances to show otherwise and you refuse to do so.
okay so there is no good solution here
it is what it is
if you hang out here you will beTROLLED AND FLAMED
It’s the never ending troll show.
I’ve seen enough.Some things never change.
Don’t they have to be signed on to Typepad?
I guess not (that was a test).
And that SUCKS!
Nathan, you total nincompoop!!!
I never SAID Jesus said that… Cant you read son??? I mean honestly… You want to come on here and pretend to be SO smucking fart, and then you cant even read a simple POSTING!!!
“I ALSO remember, as a minister, that Jesus ALSO said that there are NO SIGNS of the end… NO SIGNS…”
I was telling you what I remember as a minister that JESUS said, for god’s sake…
And if you would OPEN YOUR EYES and READ you can EASILY see where Jesus said there are NO SIGNS — Now, when you can READ, and you want to seriously LOOK at the lengthy text you quote in full… Fine… But until then, you are just a cheap little man, taking cheap shots, at somebody who just happens to be a very highly schooled, trained PROFESSIONAL!!!
Now, if you want to argue Plain, and Simple English…. Go ahead, and bring it ON!!! But, on this one, YOU LOSE!!
By the way, Nathan, being a minister has nothing to do with this particular section… Anybody with half a brain, and who can read can figure this one out real easy!!
Here is the way it sets up…
1) Jesus,in Jerusalem, is speaking with his Disciples on the Temple Mount…
Jesus makes a series of statements as to what he believes will happen to the Temple and to Jerusalem…
Keep in mind that Matthew is written very near the end of the First Century…
2) HIS DISCIPLES ask him What will be the signs of these things, and the Coming of the Son of Man… THEY ASK HIM about the signs…
3) He again makes some statements about what he believes will happen to Jerusalem, and the Temple (which by the end of the First Century when Matthew is written, have already happened)….
THEN Jesus says to them, I tell you that THIS GENERATION will not pass away until these things have happened…. (What Generation?? THEIR GENERATION!!! First Century… And you know what??? He was right!!!
THEN Jesus says to them: But OF THAT DAY (the signs of the end) No one knows… not the angels of the heavens, not the Son, but the Father only…
Now, Jesus ALSO says that the son of man comes as a Thief in the Night… Surely you wont try to argue that a Thief in the Night comes only after setting out a set of SIGNS, and warnings??? The whole idea of a Thief coming in the night, is so as not to be seen… And no thief I have ever heard of announces, Hey, you all, look out… I am coming!!!
THAT is why, among others, I tell you JESUS SAID THERE WILL BE NO SIGNS — Suppose YOU show everybody where Jesus says there WILL be signs…
Then you can have yourself a major contradiction to work out…
“you are just a cheap little man, taking cheap shots, at somebody who just happens to be a very highly schooled, trained PROFESSIONAL!!!”
So don’t try this at home children.
I dunno chas. I’m just not seeing a lot of the spiritual fruit in your writing. I see egotism, lack of patience, profanity, and plain meanness.
Maybe this place isn’t the best for a minister.
Outlander, it isnt your issue… why dont you just stay out of it… there is NO profanity in what I posted, unless you have declared some new word profane… So go STUFF IT!! and Yes my patience wears thin… just like Jesus when he threw the money changers out of the Temple… Maybe the Temple wasnt any place for him either!! ROFLMAO!!!
Darn Trolls… go back under your stupid bridges where you all belong!!!
i am out of here at 4:12 p.m.
Chas,
Perhaps Nathan incorrectly believes that you wrote, “… Jesus said, “There will be no signs”. “?
brian and political_mom,Conception can occur within 24 hours after coitus. The morning-after Plan B abortifacient pill can be taken within 3-5 days, but is most effective within 3 days. Therefore, Plan B can cause the death of a fertilized, living human embryo, by preventing implantation. Such an instance is an early chemical or medical (=not surgical) abortion.Immediate side effects can be severe, and long-term side effects in girls under 18 are unknown.. . .Studies involving teenage girls in Scotland with easy access to Plan B show that promiscuity increased, the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortions did not decrease, but STD infections did increase.Of course, contraceptives are the most ineffective when used by children.
Jeez, it’s enough to make you want to tear your hair out.
Welcome to “the All Troll Blog, All the Time”.
Trolls seem to be conservatives. I wonder what flaw in conservative character causes that. Cowardice?
And Libs just can’t pass up the bait. Ego. J-U-S-T G-O-T T-O H-A-V-E T-H-E L-A-S-T W-O-R-D!!!!!
The puppetmaster pulls the strings and the puppets dance.
XXX(Yeah, the REAL Triple X)
Troll, go way.
There, I said it. I do, however, want to dispute something said way upthread. While I agree with much of Capn’s 1:53 post (assuming it is Capn), in that the Founders did not want a standing military because of fear of oppression. We, of course, do have one, as circumstances change, and the Founders certainly did not bar one.
However, Capn’s statement that “51 percent of all income taxes go to the military (social security and medicare have special taxes)” is patently false. While SS and Medicare have dedicated taxes, 51% of the remainder does NOT go to the military.
Just get the facts straight.
“…a fertilized, living human embryo, by preventing implantation…”Posted by: parkay | July 25, 2007 at 04:26 PM
This statement implies that you believe life begins at fertilization. Would you please tell me your stance on in vitro fertilization?
“Studies involving teenage girls in Scotland with easy access to Plan B show that promiscuity increased, the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortions did not decrease, but STD infections did increase.Of course, contraceptives are the most ineffective when used by children.
Posted by: parkay | July 25, 2007 at 04:26 PM ”
Would you let me know which studies those are, that is news to me. Thanks
Have you reviewed to see if there are studies showing that abortion rates drop when contraceptives are more available?
Of course he thinks that… All I said was that Jesus did say there will be NO SIGNS!!
“Immediate side effects can be severe, and long-term side effects in girls under 18 are unknown.Posted by: parkay | July 25, 2007 at 04:26 PM ”
Correct information for the sake of the readers on this blog:
http://www.fda.gov/Cder/drug/infopage/planB/planBQandA20060824.htmAre there any side effects?According to reports from clinical trials, some women will experience non-serious side effects, such as nausea, stomach pain, headache, dizziness, or breast tenderness. These are similar to the side effects of regular birth control pills.
brian, they dont believe in ANY kind of birth control, except for rhythm… and they also dont believe in marriage except for procreation… That one they wont tell you about up front… Can you see where that leads??? Not just no GAY marriage… but no Marriage unless you are able to bear children…
Chas,
LOTS of children.
Tom — Yep… thats the hidden agenda they DONT want to put on the market… YET
They even believe non-embryo’s to be fully human… Even before they are attached to the Uterus!!
Preposterous!!
Chas.,That is something that has confused me. Some groups say that the purpose of marriage is procreation, especially as a reason that gay marriage should not be allowed.However, I have not heard any group that has made that statement also say that post-menopausal women and infertile men cannot marry. There seems to be a direct disconnect in their stances on those things.Anyone that thinks that gays should not be allowed to marry because they cannot have kids together care to explain?
Chas,
You contradict yourself. I ask that you prove where Jesus said:
“I ALSO remember, as a minister, that Jesus ALSO said that there are NO SIGNS of the end… NO SIGNS…”
You then respond by saying:
“I never SAID Jesus said that… ”
And then you continue to say further in your postings:
“you can EASILY see where Jesus said there are NO SIGNS”
“I tell you JESUS SAID THERE WILL BE NO SIGNS”
So once again, you are a liar. There is no verse where Jesus says there will be no signs so bluntly or clearly.
Those are your words, not those of Jesus. You are falsey attributing them to Jesus.
I do not deny that Jesus will indeed come like a thief in the night. That however doesn’t preclude the fact that certain things will come to pass before he does.
This doesn’t mean we will know right away to be prepared. We must always be ready. However, all of Matthew 24 cleary talks about the signs of things to pass before Christ will return.
The word generation doesn’t mean generation in the way we use it today.
Either way, there is clearly no where that Jesus says as bluntly as you attribute to him that there will be no signs.
Yes, he will come like a thief in the night when we are not prepared. That doesn’t preclude or deny that there will be signs of things to pass before this happens.
I am thinking there will be no response on their stance on in vitro.
GMC70,
Do you disagree that around 41% of all income taxes go to the current military spending and cost of past wars?
Also, the instabilty caused by the war in the Iraq has raised oil prices, which raises fuel, shipping, and many other costs.
I see you didn’t bother to read the article Parkay, the study showed clearly that it didn’t merely prevent implantation, but it prevented fertilization of the egg altogether.
And he’s wrong on those studies of Plan B…I think he just made it up. Plan B is safer than even Sudafed.
Parkay, you do know that up to 50% of fertilized embryos pass out of the womb before implantation without the woman even knowing….
So I guess God is an abortiofacient too?
Cosmos -
That wasn’t Capn’s statement. His statement was “51 percent of all income taxes go to the military (social security and medicare have special taxes).”
That statement is patently false.
And while I do not have the numbers before me, I strongly suspect that the number you cite is also incorrect; or more properly put, a distortion.
I’ve been wrong before, however.
And Good God, can we end the all-abortion, all the time. Positions are fixed; the endless fighting over that gets us nowhere. Unless SCOTUS decides to overturn Roe, further movement on this issue, aside from tinkering around the edges, is impossible.
Let it go already.
No, GMC I won’t stop talking about it, I feel it’s one of the biggest issues facing women is the ability to control their reproductive freedom. It affects every other part of their life.I would call it slavery to abolish this right.
So I will continue pursuing the issue. You’re welcome to ignore it.
Nathan, You wont even engage your pint sized brain… How can you expect me to argue with if you are going to call me a LIAR!!!
DID Jesus say He comes as a Thief in the Night??? YES he did
Do Thieves give advance warnings??? NO they dont…
Ergo — Jesus says there are NO SIGNS!!!
Are you so stupid that you cant figure that out???
Go STUFF it!!! No more conversations with your nonsense, Nathan… A CHILD can see that connection… but you want to cause trouble… so, you wont think even as smart as a Child… And all the time you KNOW you are wrong!!!
Some fine Christian specimen YOU turn out to be!!
Fine: P-mom. May I introduce you to a brick wall? You may bang your head against it at will, for all the good it will do.
That applies to both sides – it’s pointless. The positions are fixed, and cast in stone. And the legal landscape in which the issues are decided is unchangable, at present.
So we can turn our energies to issues where policy changes can be made, or we can bicker about something that, until the SCOTUS changes its position, we cannot change.
So if you like, bang your head against that wall at will. I think most of us find more productive uses of this time and energy.
Chas,
Nathan DOES seem to incorrectly believe that you wrote, “… Jesus said, “There will be no signs”. ”
He again posts,
“There is no verse where Jesus says there will be no signs so bluntly or clearly.”Posted by: Nathan | July 25, 2007 at 05:03 PM
“Matthew 24 cleary talks about the signs of things to pass before Christ will return.”
There you go again Nathan… not reading again… Jesus clearly talks about things that will come to pass IN THE GENERATION OF THE DISCIPLES…. About his Return, there are NO SIGNS>>> NO ONE KNOWS… And to illustrate what he means by that, THEN he uses the Thief in the Night… WHY do you insist on putting in signs about a Thief coming, or hints of a Thief coming, when Jesus clearly says He comes as a Thief in the night, and obviously, a Thief GIVES NO SIGNS…. Now just WHERER am I a LIAR, you nincompoop!!! WHERE????
Chas,
The problem is your logic.
There is no logic in the connection you are trying to asert so bluntly in
theives do not give advance warning = no signs
Once again, that is a presumption you make, not a fact.
you then take your presumption and assert it as a fact = to Jesus saying there are no signs.
You can spin it anyway you want to.
You are indeed falsly attributing words to Jesus which he has never said.
P-Mom — I agree with your 5:08 posting… Hang in there… And yes, it is a form of slavery, IF they get their way!!
It’s ok GMC, I’ve already got a big ole bruise where I’ve hit that wall repeatedly anyway.
Chas,
You have actually lied twice.
First lie:
“I ALSO remember, as a minister, that Jesus ALSO said that there are NO SIGNS of the end… NO SIGNS…”
Second lie:
“”I never SAID Jesus said that… ”
So which is it chas?
You say Jesus said it then you deny it then you say he says it.
All of which is based on your FALSE premise that a “thief in the night” = “no signs”
Thank you Chas, if I were a Christian I’d go to your church!
GMC–
You’re not going to like the source but it looks good to me.
http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm
They point out, rightly IMHO, that the federal pie chart we usually get from the IRS et al. has Soc. Sec. and medicare in it, so that makes it looks as though a much smaller percentage goes to the war machine.
But wait a minute. As the site points out, “this is a distortion of how our income tax dollars are spent because it includes Trust Funds (e.g., Social Security), and the expenses of past military spending are not distinguished from nonmilitary spending.”
Soc. Security and Medicare have special taxes to fund them. In fact, at present, Soc. Security is helping to fund OTHER programs (all of them except Soc. Security) that are running in deficit.
When one narrows it down to INCOME taxes alone, 51 percent does indeed go to military spending.
In fact, I think the website is a little too conservative in how they calculate it. A large percentage of our national debt was incurred by military spending. The interest to service that debt is not included in “military spending” even though it is.
nathan, just go to your little prayer meetings, and enjoy your prophecy conferences, and you go invent some signs… they arent in the Bible… and they wont appear there just because you WANT them to…. WHY IN GOD’S NAME WOULD JESUS FIRST SAY THAT NOBODY KNOWS THE DAY NOR THE HOUR… AND THEN ASSUME TO GIVE SIGNS??? AND WHY WOULD JESUS SAY SOMETHING AS DEFINITE AND AS PURPOSEFUL, AS THE PHRASE ABOUT A THIEF IN THE NIGHT…. DO YOU KNOW PERSONALLY OF A THIEF THAT SENT AN ANNOUNCEMENT BEFORE HAND??? WHY WOULD IT BE A FRIGGIN SURPRISE, IF IT HAD SOME KIND OF CLUES TO IT??? WHAT DO YOU THINK??? GOD IS PLAYING GAMES, AND THE ONE WHO GUESSES RIGHT WINS???
Come on, son, use the brain that God gave you…. IF JESUS SAYS I come as a thief in the night, and you dont dispute that, then he says, THERE ARE NO SIGNS!~~!! THAT, my little feeble minded friend, is LOGIC!!!
CapN, I thought I read somewhere the other day about half or nearly half of income tax going for military spending… not sure if it was on Olberman, or where… Wish I could help you out here…. just cant remember where I saw that…
“..until the SCOTUS changes its position, we cannot change..Posted by: GMC70 | July 25, 2007 at 05:17 PM ”
No, any change will be driven by legislature. Most likely by determination of at what point during fetal development a ‘person’ becomes protected under the Constitution.
As such, anyone with an interest in this can have an impact by educating others, thereby moving public opinion and that of their representatives in Congress.
I am outta here again, at 5:33 p.m.
“he would come like a thief in the night”
Maybe Jesus just meant he would wear dark clothes and a stocking cap…
;)
LOL brian… lighten it up a little… i like that!!
ok dinner time at 5:36 p.m.
Chas,
Calling me names will not change your lie or your faulty logic.
Lets look at this then:
FACT:
Jesus did indeed talk about the signs to come before he came again in Matthew 24.
UP FOR INTERPRETATION:
The word generation. Upon looking at what the word means in this context, it doesn’t mean a generation as in the way we view one. Rather a generation meaning an age of time or the spiritual state of a society.
I will concede that you and I can differ on the context of generation. I have theological studies and the context the word generation has been used elsewhere in the Bible on my side.
Regardless of any of this, these signs are not of Jesus coming per say.
They are things which will pass before Jesus does come again.
The examples of what a sign is which you keep using are like his placing a sign in your front yard saying I am coming. This is clearly not what I am saying nor the Bible is telling us.
The Bible is simply telling us that certain things will pass before Jesus comes again, and when Jesus does come, it will be like a Thief in the night, be prepared.
It is a premise of yours that “thief in the night” = ” no signs”
Either way you can’t be so presumptious to then turn around and proclaim with such Authoirty that Jesus said “there will be no signs” based on a premise of yours.
Either Jesus actually said it or he didn’t.
In this case Jesus did not say any such thing.
Your saying he did the way you do is a lie.
Chas–
Don’t beat your head bloody pointing out the logical contradictions in the fundy reading of the Bible.
It’s futile.
My priest once put it this way: fundamentalists make an idol out of the Bible and proceed to commit idolatry.
They completely ignore the key concept that “the letter of the law killeth, but the spirit giveth life,” instead believing in its inverse: “everything in the Bible is literally true, and we get to define ‘literally.’”
So when Paul says that homosexuality is an abomination, that is literally true and gays can’t marry or be church members or anything like that.
But when Jesus says that divorce and remarriage is adultery . . . well . . . he just meant that you shouldn’t do it unless you really have to . . . and then you should feel bad and pray and stuff but you can be forgiven.
See how it works? There’s absolutely “no interpretation” of the literal truth of Biblical word, PERIOD. Absolutely none.
. . . until they interprete it the way they want to interprete it, that is.
Brian:
I don’t think the legislature can magically determine when a person is a person, anymore than they can magically stip away personhood.
I understand what you’re saying, but I think the action’s at SCOTUS.
If Roe is overturned, THEN the action is in the legislatures. The State legislatures, that is, as in my opinion the federal gov’t has no authority here (of course, the Feds should have no authority in lots of things; that hasn’t stopped them from distorting the Commerce Clause to stick their finger in nearly everything!).
and then, yea, the action is big time. So if the argument is over swaying public opinion for that possible day, yea, that’s valid.
Unfortunatly, opinions on this are pretty fixed and unmoveable, especially on a blog like this where you often get the most extreme positions on both sides.
I guess we could clear the whole interpretation up pretty easily CapnA, lets just ask Jesus what he meant.
D’oh
Brian,
That is my point exactly.
There is no where in the Bible where Jesus says there will be no signs.
Yet chas keeps saying Jesus said that.
That is not an interpretational error. That is an outright lie.
Chas could easily say, perhaps, that when Jesus said he is coming like a thief in the night he believes that means there will be no signs.
No, instead he resolutely claims that “Jesus said” something he did not.
Let the record stand that GMC doesn’t believe the role of the Federal Government is to defend the civil rights of Women to make decisions for their own bodies.
By all means, leave it to the whims of the majority opinion.
GMC, good points.However, by saying Congress would have to determine when a person becomes a person, I meant it more of an arbitrary way.
Scientists, philosophers, religious scholars, Drs, and lawyers have forever debated when LIFE begins and have not resolved it. If they couldn’t, there is no way our Congress can.
However, Congress could decide to make a law, probably a Constitutional amendment would be most appropriate, saying that for the purposes of the laws of the USA, a person is a person when ________. This would not necessarily have to be based on when life begins.
Doing that would cause cases like Roe and the Gonzales vs partial-birth abortion to be re-reviewed (or whatever it is called in legal parlance)
back at 5:51 p.m. wait long enough brian, and the Jesus nic might actually appear… one never knows with all the trolls…
Nathan… I am not talking yard signs… that is your imagination… I dont believe you will find any statement of Jesus about any kinds of signs, or warnings, etc., of the coming of the Son of Man… He talks of lightning from east to west… the thief in the night… even of two working in a field, when one dies, and one is left… but he ultimately says, OF THAT DAY and hour, nobody knows. Now, if he meant to leave signs, that implies that if you can figure out the sign code, you might be able to figure out the day and the hour… but I am sure you wont argue over Day and Hour being forbidden… And if that is forbidden, So are Signs of that day and hour!!
That way, nobody can sit around and try to make guess work out of faith… i.e., idolatry!
One concluding thought: EVERY day is one of the Lasdt Days for somebody… because EVERY day there are those who will no longer be here tomorrow!!
That being said, I am finished with this silly topic…
it shouldn’t be an issue of when life begins, it’s an issue of the life and rights of the woman.
hey brian… I really, really hate to mention this one… BUT… in Genesis, when God forms a Man out of the dust of the earth, Genesis says he breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and Man became a living being… Try getting that one past a Right to Life person… If you want to see impossible interpretations come out of their magic hats… just try that one for when Life begins!!
OK dinner time Nuff Said…Out of here at 5:59
“Chas could easily say, perhaps, that when Jesus said he is coming like a thief in the night he believes that means there will be no signs.No, instead he resolutely claims that “Jesus said” something he did not.Posted by: Nathan | July 25, 2007 at 05:50 PM ”
So apparently you know what Chas means you are just bickering about semantics?
And of course you are right, P-Mom. I’ve had 4 children, and lost two in miscarriages.
I am glad there was a law allowing me the opportunity to have an abortion, IF I would have needed one.
BTW, Chas. is my Dad!
P-mom, re: your 5:51 post:
You’ve set up a strawman, or at least know full well that we approach this from different perspectives. I won’t demonize you for your position, I’ll thank you not to demonize me for mine.
And Brian, for the record, I’d oppose such an amendment.
“it shouldn’t be an issue of when life begins, it’s an issue of the life and rights of the woman.
Posted by: political_mom | July 25, 2007 at 05:57 PM ”
Why not?(Serious question)
Why would you oppose such an amendment?I think it certainly would create a mess, but it would solve some inconsistencies in our legal system.
Chas–
I’m pretty sure I read in the New Testament somewhere where Jesus (in obvious frustration) says something to the effect of “why do you keep asking about the ‘end times’ when you cannot even see what is happening right now? If you could understand the present, then maybe you could understand the future.”
I have a computer file of the four Gospels but can’t find the relevant passage.
Any ideas?
Nathan, ONE more time… slowly… read this slowly…
Jesus says, I come as a thief in the night…
IF a thief in the night comes without signs or warnings,
Then, vis A vis… Jesus says, I come without signs or warnings!!
Now, is THAT CLEAR???
No more games…
Back off to dinner preparation..6:04 p.m.
Yes CapN that is basically what he said… paraphrases are acceptable, at least at my study table… maybe not nathan’s… you are on the right track there… When he said that, it was pretty much of a “put down” to those folks for being so ridiculous about fortune telling, and future things that had no means of interpretation…
“he breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and Man became a living beingPosted by: Chas. | July 25, 2007 at 05:59 PM”
The first breath to go through my nostrils was after I was born (as the case with all humans). Does that mean we are not living?
:)
Now, I really have to get dinner… daughter is bugging me too… Outta here at 6:07 p.m.
Brian, I just was leaving to finish dinner… That is exactly why I told you it makes for a most interesting discussion about the beginning of Life… Genesis obviously says when the Man breathes, he becomes a Living Being… However, the SPIN on that one is magnanimous, to say the least…
Out to dinner at 6:10 p.m.
Brian:
Simply because I believe that, in our constitutional system, such legislating is beyond the appropriate authority of the federal gov’t. Yes, it would make things easier; but this system wasn’t designed to be easy or efficient. It was designed to permit persons to govern themselves. And I believe that under our constitutional system, issues such as these regarding the right policy were generally left to the people, either through their state or local governments, or to individuals to decide, not the federal government.
In this case, abortion policy, I believe, is constitutionally a state/local matter, subject to the political process there. It is not a matter for federal legislating (nor arbitrary court decision). Roe is wrongly decided, not because I think the SCOTUS reached the wrong decision, but because the SCOTUS concluded the subject was properly a federal constitutional question at all. The proper decision in Roe should have been, in my opinion, “the Constitution is silent on this issue; therefore, it is a political question left to the states and their political processes to answer.”
And given the nature of this subject, that is probably all will say on the matter. I don’t intend to spend all evening banging my head against that wall.
So P-mom, rail to your heart’s content.
So why didnt SCOTUS let Florida decide their own elections in 2000? Why did SCOTUS step in and decide things for them, and everyone else?
I love it when they cry “states rights” when it benefits the cons, and then run to the supremes when it suits them.
Actually, GMC, I wish the SCOTUS had ruled that way in the 70’s too.
The basis of their ruling always struck me as flimsy compared to the gravity of the issue.
“Medical Privacy?” Privacy trumps protecting putative human life?
It was a decision that wasn’t going to change the minds of any of the opposition, that’s for sure.
Reminds me of the saying, “for every complex question, there’s a simple WRONG answer.”
I think abortion should be safe and legal. But it should have a more solid legal basis than “medical privacy.”
“So why didnt SCOTUS let Florida decide their own elections in 2000? Why did SCOTUS step in and decide things for them, and everyone else?”
Whoa, touche, KSGrrl!
Considering that voting IS a state’s right issue, the SCOTUS should have never even heard the case.
And then when those CONs–who loathe the 14th amendment–ruled to stop the recount on the basis of the 14th amendment (because what constitutes a “legal vote” is too variable), they didn’t just hand the election to Bush, they PISSED on the Constitution and one hundred years of jurisprudence just because they could.
“Plessy v Ferguson”"Dred Scott”"Bush v Gore”
The cases that live in infamy . . .
You’ve lost your right to decide what do to with your body when you decide to let some man you would not want to have a child with jam his meat stick inside of you and create a child.(incidents of rape and incest excepted).
Nathan,
Do you have a reading comprehension problem???
“You say Jesus said it then you deny it then you say he says it.”Posted by: Nathan | July 25, 2007 at 05:24 PM(similar post at 5:03 PM)
Read your earlier post, Nathan.
“There is no verse that I know of which states so clearly and bluntly that there are no signs by Jesus.”Posted by: Nathan | July 25, 2007 at 03:44 PMhttp://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/07/open-thread-725.html#comment-77164164
Chas’ response was clearly denying YOUR “states so clearly and bluntly…”,
“I never SAID Jesus said that… “Posted by: Chas. | July 25, 2007 at 03:55 PM
Avenger–
You mean like married couples who don’t want children but their birth control fails?
Or how about women with emotional problems–manic-depressives, alcohol abuse, victims of child abuse?
Or how about women so kept in the dark about sex by their “abstinence-only” school and family, they don’t even quite know what’s happening to them?
Or how about women who WOULD like to have their boyfriend’s – husband’s baby, but HE doesn’t want to support it?
To every complex question, there is a simple wrong answer?
Was that a serious question, Avenger, or do you just like typing “meat stick”?
Chas,
The key word in your little example was “IF”
“IF” you presume that:
1. Coming like a thief in the night would preclude any signs.
2. That those signs would somehow prevent Jesus from both coming as a thief in the night and not be known.
Those are all YOUR assumptions.
Jesus NEVER said he would come without signs. Thos were YOUR words. Not the words of Jesus.
It is possible for Jesus to still come like a thief in the night even after certain signs come to pass.
They do not have to be in correlation to one another or even close in time to one another.
The simple fact is that there are signs.
You can’t deny that. It is plain as day in the Bible.
The only thing you can do is interpret the word “generation” to mean what we commonly use the word to mean today in our language.
Yet, you choose to be so presumptious as to claim that Jesus says there will be no signs even after he gives signs.
Those are your words, not the words of Jesus.
You are a liar.
Do you think he might already be here, sitting in the oval office, I mean crawford?
Oh the prediction of the end times, that’s an easy one:
Mark 13:32 KJV) “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.”
Thats what I keep telling nathan, Kansas… he insists there are signs for us to see LOL
Nathan, face it, there are just NO SIGNS to predict the coming of the Son of Man… NONE, I tell you, NONE!!!
We are just as much in the “last days” now, as the Apostle Paul was in his life time
Nathan, you can live out in the dessert, in the middle of nowhere, not a cloud in the Sky, and out of nowhere, there is a huge lightning bolt… Just like Jesus said in Mt. 24… And when you see that lightning bolt, THERE IS NO SIGN IT IS COMING… IT JUST HAPPENS….
And one other thing, you little pip squeek, STOP CALLING ME A LIAR!!!! I have forgotten more Bible Study notes, than you have even read!!!
Israel re-building the Tower would be about the only one.
Well, they arent doing that any time soon, and thats no sign of anything, whoever you are
And it isnt Tower anyway… the Bible Prophecy freaks seem to believe in their quest to predict the end of the world, that the Temple in Jerusalem has to be rebuilt…
Chas,
Please do not try to misrepresent my position in a weak attempt to change the subject.
I have never said that there are signs PREDICTING when Jesus would come.
The Bible says certain signs will come to pass before Christ comes again.
It is in no way a prediction of when Jesus will come.
This issue is about your saying that Jesus said something He did not.
All you have to do is simply admit that Jesus didn’t say that there would be no signs like you said He did.
If you were to simply argue that you think there will be no signs instead of claiming Jesus said something he did not, I wouldn’t call you a liar.
I will not sit here and watch someone quote Jesus as saying something which was never said.
You know, the funniest thing is, so many religious right folks are SO AGAINST the United Nations, and New World Order, whatever that might be… They are SO afraid its coming…
But they will pay money to go to some Prophecy conference, and sit and listen to a bunch of prophecy nuts trying to prove to them that when Jesus comes, HE WILL ESTABLISH A ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT, WITH A ONE WORLD RELIGION, AND IF YOU DONT BELONG TO IT, YOU’RE TOAST!!
Amazing the gross hypocrasy that flies around in the name of religious zealousness…
My understanding is that it (Temple on the Mount) is part of Revelation.It is also my understanding that the land that it is to be done is not currently under Israeli rule, so yes it wouldn’t seem to be happening anytime soon.
Now, listen, Nathan, why would I admit to something that i KNOW is patently a false lie??? that would be pretty darned stupid…
And if you are so sure that you know what Jesus said, then why dont you get yourself down to Springfield to that nice Assembly of God College and Seminary, and go be a Preacher!! You might learn something there, cause you arent gonna learn it here with your attitude!!
Well, whoever you are, I think somebody has sold you one of those “zionist” bills of goods that comes out of fundamentalist branches of christianity… and looks to speed up the battle of armageddon, of which there are many groups…
Playing devil’s advocate why would a Christian want to be part of a one word Government that wasn’t the Lord’s?
Chas,
I have not revealed to you what I believe about the end times.
Yet you choose to pursue a course of argument mocking and ridiculing something which is not even part of the discussion.
It is smoke and mirrors.
This is simple.
Show me where Jesus said there will be no signs. WITHOUT YOUR ADDED WORDS.
It is simple. Just point to the verse where Jesus said there will be no signs.
Nathan, I have tried to be nice with you, but if you will not read simple english, and draw simple Bible based conclusions on what you read, then there isnt anything left to say…. Most people are capable of looking at the words about Jesus coming as a thief in the night, and easily see that there arent going to be any signs ahead of time for that event… But, NO, NOT NATHAN!!! You gotta have your bloody SIGNS — And Nathan, earlier in Matt. Chapt. 24, Jesus even WARNS AGAINST listening to those who make claims of finding some evidence of the coming of the Son of Man… He says not to listen to them… He says its like that lightning that comes from out of nowhere, you dont know where it comes from, and you dont know where it’s going… He calls it like a Thief in the Night…
Son, those are ALL parable type statements…. and you KNOW Jesus taught in parables…
And you KNOW parables arent literal statements… They are statements that tell you something so you can understand it…. THERE ARE NO SIGNS OF THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN… AND ONE MORE TIME… WITH FEELING…. JESUS SAYS IT HIMSELF!!!!!!
NOW STOP CALLING PEOPLE LIARS, JUST BECAUSE THEY WONT AGREE WITH YOUR SIMPLE LITTLE MIND!!!!
AND THAT IS NOT AN INSULT… JUST A MERE FACT….
I AM FINISHED WITH YOUR KIND, NATHAN… Calling yourself a committed Christian… until it doesnt suit you, or you want to argue with somebody that happens to come along, and burst your happy little bubble!!! Well, go stuff your little bubble!!!
HOW MANY MORE TIMES CAN I TELL YOU WHERE HE SAYS IT???? I HAVE ALREADY TOLD YOU REPEATEDLY… AND YOU STILL DENY IT…. THERE IS NOTHING LEFT TO TELL YOU, EXCEPT TO JUST GO WALLER IN YOUR IGNORANCE!! AND HAVE A NICE NITE!!
Well, whoever you are, why would we be wanting to fight for Freedom of Religion, and Freedom of Speech, and Freedom for Iraq, IF we all believed Jesus was going to kill all those people when he comes anyway??? I think thats the better way to ask it… Cause what we are promoting NOW, sure isnt what the Prophecy Freaks are predicting for later on!!! Not that I believe them either… They are frauds and charlatans….
Chas,
Notice the key phrase you said:
“and draw simple Bible based conclusions on what you read”
Once again, you can’t show me a verse where Jesus said there will be no signs.
What you call “simple Bible based conclusions” are not based on the Bible and definately are not logical.
I noticed you did not cite the verse.
Why?
Why can’t you cite a verse where Jesus says whay you say He did?
It is because you are a liar.
And the other half of that is equally strange… Because those Islam extremists ALSO believe that their 9th IMAM is coming back, and will lead THEIR people in a world Jihad, to kill ALL the infidels who dont believe THEIR way as well… You can see where that kind of religious fighting can lead… Christian Exteremists fighting for ONE kind of end of the world, and Islamic Extremists fighting for just the opposite…
I don’t think I follow you.Freedom of Speech, Religion etc. for the World allows the Gospel to be spread to all corners of the globe as part of the great commission.Certainly the Lord will not come until all corners of the earth have had the opportunity to hear and accept the gospel for themselves. That’s my opinion at least.
Nathan, Nathan, Nathan, I already gave you chapters, and verses before…. I dont have a Bible sitting right on my desk… and I certainly never memorized the thing… I never found a verse that says I have to memorize it… It is right in that same section I have had you looking in…. YOU can find the darn verse yourself… and I am STILL not a liar!!! Nanner nanner nanner!!!
Actually nobody knows was Jesus said, because the stories written about him were written hundreds of years later. The closest book to Jesus is about 60 years after his death.
That is like writing about somebody who died in WWII what they said in their lifetime.
Also! The New Testament books was written in Greek, which was a language Jesus never spoke.
well, myboyz, that has already happened more than once… I just love the time lines some religious folk put on God… It cant happen till THIS happens, or it cant happen till THAT happens… or it cant happen till a live bull is sacrificed in Jerusalem again…. or it cant happen till the sky is falling….
You see, OUR kind of Freedom is not acceptable everywhere in the world…. The best we can hope for is more tolerance of other viewpoints… even in our OWN country… When we dont even have that kind of tolerance HERE, its pretty pathetic that we try to export it to other nations, who dont WANT what we are selling…
What was it Jesus said??? If you go to a village, and they dont WANT you there… shake the dust off your feet, and move on… We havent always learned that lesson too well…
Luke 21:25-27
25 “There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves,
26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
27 “Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD with power and great glory.
Excellent point Joe… And that is why we have these kind of worthless arguments, hunting down exact words, and phrases, that simply dont even exist any more…
Fine Nathan, different author, different decade, different apocalyptical version…. Now, can you find anywhere that Jesus identifies himself with that “Son of Man” figure??? That should take a while…
This argument has been around as long as there has been Churches.
This particular event is referenced in three other parts of the Bible, two in the Old Testament and one in Revelations.
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken; then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory; and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
The problem with “signs” is that no one faith can agree on what “signs” are or aren’t.
There are even Scholars of the same denomination that disagree.
The Jewish Scholars certainly disagree with what the New Testament has to say.
There are only a few words that are actually relevant to this topic.
And those are in John 3:16.
Outside of that, live the life of your belief according to that verse.
If you don’t, you’ve made your own path and must suffer what comes.
The argument won’t be resolved here, it has yet to be and won’t be settled until Christ returns.
You cant find what you want in one book, so you go looking in another one… Absolutely amazing!!
Well, Well, Well, the truth comes out at last!
“…that simply dont even exist any more…”
So now you admit you are making it up because you don’t even believe what the Bible says anyhow?
I believe Chas is referencing Mark 13.
If someone doesn’t want the Gospel that is their business and between them and God.To say someone does not want freedom you are betraying your own Constituition.
Chas,
I read the entire Bible. I don’t form doctrines and in your case lies from one book alone.
For once, Kansas, I agree with you… I know it doesnt happen too often… But on this matter you are exactly right… When I tell Nathan that in Matthew, Jesus says the son of man comes as a thief in the night, I am saying that is the same as saying he comes without signs… nathan calls me a liar… I’m not a liar… He isnt a liar… He just has been taught a different interpretation in his church…
Chas,
If you don’t have a Bible available to quote the verse where you claim Jesus says there will be no signs, then why don’t you simply wait until you get to one instead of sitting here wating bandwidth?
You are on the internet too.
If you type in online Bible I am almost positive that you could use the internet to find your verse too.
I won’t hold my breath.
Some people are Pre Millenial…. Some people are Post Millenial… great scholarly books have been written to supposedly back up both positions, and both quoting from a myriad of Bible verses, for their own proof…
Personally, I am Pan Milennial…
I believe it will all Pan Out in the end… Nuff said… this is getting nowhere, and its getting OLD…. After 37 years of doing numerous battles of the wits with this stuff, it tends to get old after a time…
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Matthew 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.Mark 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
Luke 12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Chas,
I am not saying that you have to believe in my position on the end times.
I have yet to even bring it up.
My case from point number one, has been and continues to be that when YOU, chas, come here saying that Jesus says something he did not, it is less than truthful.
I have given you several times to explain yourself and everytime you insist that Jesus did indeed say there would be no signs.
Now show me the verse. Where does Jesus say there will be no signs without your added words.
There is no such verse.
Nathan, I dont NEED a Bible in my hand to tell you that Jesus said the Son of Man comes as a Thief in the Night…
I dont NEED a Bible in my hand to quote from the 23rd Psalm…
I’m real sorry, but I think most anybody who reads Jesus’ alleged words about the Thief in the Night would reach a similar conclusion…
He is trying to tell people in a very simple way, It’s gonna happen, and nobody is gonna tell you about it before hand… In other words, there wont be any SIGNS as to when it is gonna happen…
Now, I dont know why that is such a difficult idea for you to grasp, unless you WANT to be difficult, or you didnt have your cheerios or whatever… But it is a VERY simple kind of statement… It is in the Gospel of Matthew…
OK you big cry baby>>>>
24:36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.24:37 For as the days of Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
24:38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark,
24:39 and they knew nothing until the flood came and swept them all away, so too will be the coming of the Son of Man.
24:40 Then two will be in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
24:41 Two women will be grinding meal together; one will be taken and one will be left.
24:42 Keep awake therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
24:43 But understand this: if the owner of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into.
24:44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an unexpected hour.
Well, I remember the Apocalyptic Preachers that used to appear on TV in the 1980s and early 90s like clockwork after the Late Shows were on.
Each had their own predictions and interpretations.
Some of them got carried away and made very specific predictions which turned out wrong. :)
It’s an enigma.
On one hand the Bible does reference signs. On the other hand it says no man can predict the coming of Christs.
But if the coming of Christ is a sign shown by the supposed astronomical event before His coming (sun darkened – moon will not give light)then there is indeed a sign, but one that may be apparent and a bit too late to acknowledge that it is one.
Confusing to say the least and nothing I can say will alter the passages.
What they mean I have no idea and maybe that’s the point after all.
If we all knew when it was coming who would repent until the last possible moment?I think that’s the point.
Chas,
I have read all of those verses. Not one of them is Jesus saying there will be no signs.
Not one.
There are so many good arguments in here not to believe in religion at ALL.
Like me :D
Like the best selling book called, “88 reason why Jesus will come in 1988″
Once again.
I will esplain my stance.
I am not saying that there are signs PREDICTING when Jesus will come.
I am not saying that there are signs TELLING us when Jesus is coming.
Signs can be as simple as things that will happen in time before, during, or even after Christ comes.
None of them have to predict Christs coming.
Christs coming like a thief in the night doesn’t have to preclude signs.
Yet according to Chas. There are simply no signs, because Jesus said so.
That is a lie. Jesus never said that. That is my point.
Nathan, you have GOT to be kidding!! or else, you really cannot READ!! Now which is it??
P-Mom you got that right!!
heh Joe. :)
Nathan, what you are speaking of is the signs of the Rapture! But you have to remember, that Jesus comes to earth before the Rapture!
There will be no signs of Jesus return to earth. The signs of the Rapture is that when the Rapture is starting. It isn’t a sign that Jesus is coming, it’s suppose to mean that Jesus is already here.
What is with this one dimensional thinking?
A sign doesn’t have to predict Christ coming and I am not claiming any such thing.
I believe there will be signs which will come to pass before, during, and maybe even after Christs second coming.
It is that simple.
I do not believe that there will be any sign which would PREDICT Christs coming. A sign doesn’t have to predict anything to be a sign.
24:39 and they knew nothing until the flood came and swept them all away, so too will be the coming of the Son of Man.
24:43 But understand this: if the owner of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into.
24:44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an unexpected hour.
================
Now, there are TWO saying where there is a direct aversion to any signs to warn, or encourage, or otherwise prepare anybody for the Coming of the Son of Man…
Those are not MY words… Those are from Matthew…
Chas,
Not one of those verses even had the word sign in them.
Yet I am the one with a reading problem?
I do not believe that there will be any sign which would PREDICT Christs coming.
Posted by: Nathan | July 25, 2007 at 09:19 PM
=====================
You numb skull… hat is what I have been trying to tell you this whole time, and YOU call ME the liar!!! You disingenious little twit!!
YOU Nathan, are playing STUPID and idiotic WORD GAMES!!!
The word SIGN might not be there… but the MEANING of the word is all the way through that entire chapter…. Go back to school, and learn English again!!! And learn analogy, and metaphor!!
Chas,
What you have been saying is that Jesus said there will be no signs.
Which is a lie.
Nathan! Dude! I’m not trying to beat up on your faith or anything, but Jesus isn’t going to return. There isn’t an invisible man in the sky.
People used to always think that Jesus was coming and back in the old days, put baskets on top of their roofs and sat on them, thinking they will be transported to heaven like an Alien Abduction to a UFO.
The story of Revelations and the Second Coming of Christ is all designed by the Church to regulate behavior. It’s the same thing that parents use to tell children to be nice all year long, so that Santa will give them gifts. Do you believe in Santa?
Just be a good person and do good things. You will be alright. There isn’t an exact faith, book, church or steps as the only gateway to heaven, if such place exist, which doesn’t.
Seriously, Nathan, since you so much want to pursue academic matters… and since you do seem to be very committed to your religious system of beliefs… I would seriously encourage you to go spend a few days at that pretty good Assembly of God College and Seminary over in Springfield, MO…. I think that at the very least, you would most enjoy your visit!!
Explanations were given and then this sentence brian posted to Nathan wrapped the entire argument up in a nutshell:—————-”So apparently you know what Chas means you are just bickering about semantics?”
Posted by: brian | July 25, 2007 at 06:00 PM
——————Is now the time to ask Who’s on first?
What you have been saying is that Jesus said there will be no signs.
Which is a lie.
Posted by: Nathan | July 25, 2007 at 09:24 PM
==================
You just dont GET it do you??
He talked about the thief in the night… He compared the coming of the son of man, to a thief coming in the night, a thief that you have NO SIGN OR WARNING OF COMING>>> And he says the Son of Man comes as a Thief in the Night…
If Jesus says the Son of Man comes as a Thief in the Night, who comes without signs or warnings, Then Jesus is saying that the Son of Man comes without signs or warnings….
Why is that so darned difficult for your mind to grasp???
Are you ADD, or ADHD???
The are many signs that the Bible says herald the second coming. Although not predicting the hour or the day, their fulfillment will let us know that the end times approach.
There are so many good arguments in here not to believe in religion at ALL.
Like me :D
Posted by: political_mom | July 25, 2007 at 09:14 PM
P-Mom you got that right!!
Posted by: Chas. | July 25, 2007 at 09:17 PM
Chas,
I thought you were a pastor in search of a church. Are you actually endorsing a lack of faith/belief?
Just curious. . .
And before you even ask, NO I dont believe it for a minute… Like Joe, it was a tool to control behavior… very much like what ended up being the Santa Claus story…. BE PREPARED says Jesus — Dont be caught off guard… Be sure you have plenty of Oil for your lamps because the bride groom might get there when you dont expect him… Oh, the parables are many…
Nope Proud Man… just expressing one of the frustrations of the times…
Hoever, Proud Man, if you are actually a Libertarian, then it shouldnt matter to you one way or the other…
Outlander, dont even go there… thats just plain fundamentalist Hype, and extremely poor interpretation of Bible texts… Extremely poor interpretations!!!
And so, as sundown once again enfolds the little City that wished it Could, the nightly invasion of Trolls has begun its sad infiltration…. Time to now Walk on by!!! Nite all!!
brian and political_mom and chas,The number of abortions committed in Scotland has increased twice since OTC access to the Plan B abortifacient drug was implemented, confirming the ineffectiveness of the dangerous Plan B contraceptive overdose toreduce surgical abortions or unwanted pregnancies. The Scotland government reported 13,081 abortions in 2006, up from 12,603 the previous year — an increase ofnearly 3.8%, and an all-time high.See news pagehttp://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IF06H01- – -Plan B sometimes kills a living, fertilized human embryo by preventing implantation. Data is lacking to assure safe usage, especially for minors.See pharmacy pagehttp://www.uspharmacist.com/index.asp?show=article&page=8_1567.htmand physician pagehttp://www.physiciansforlife.org/content/view/48/2/- – -”Be it Enacted by the People of the State of Colorado:SECTION 1. Article II of the constitution of the stateof Colorado is amended BY THE ADDITION OF A NEW SECTION to read: Section 31. Person defined. AS USEDIN SECTIONS 3, 6, AND 25 OF ARTICLE II OF THE STATE CONSTITUTION, THE TERMS “PERSON” OR “PERSONS” SHALL INCLUDE ANY HUMAN BEING FROM THE MOMENT OFFERTILIZATION.”. . . proposed amendment to the Colorado Constitution for the 2008 ballot, abolishing abortion in thatstate, by the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution[Colorado and Kansas are now the only states tolerating essentially unrestricted post-viable abortions, because of their inability to meaningfullyprosecute one criminal abortionist quack in Wichita and one in Boulder.]See equal rights pagehttp://www.coloradoequalrights.com/- – -As for the breath of life, Adam, being created from dirt, had no umbilical cord. Today, babies long before birth breathe through the oxygen exchange in the placenta. Babies do not instantly change from being “not human” to human when they draw their first breath after the umbilical cord is cut. Ask any decent mother if her baby exhibited human characteristics and behavior before birth. Particularly between 12 and 20 weeks gestation, babies “walk”, kick, smile, yawn, hiccup, cry, swallow, wake, sleep, react to sound and pain, and suck their thumb.- – -As for IVF, I am not opposed as long as all the human eggs fertilized are implanted with the opportunity for live birth. Freezing and thawing will kill some fertilized embryos. I would prefer that nearly all orphans were adopted before promoting IVF instead of adoption.- – -
Nathan, here is St. Paul’s take on it:
I Thessalonians 5:4 “For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.==================
That is a paraphrase of the passage in Matthew I cited above… according to my Greek New Testament source book…
Actually, the paraphrase is from the Matthew text, using the text from Paul’s letter, which was probably written some 30 years prior to the Gospel…
Chas,
That statement doesn’t in and of it’s self preclude that there could very well be signs.
None of the verse you have cited so far preclude the possibility of signs.
Yet you make a definitive claim that Jesus says there will be no signs.
I have yet to see a verse that says that.
What outlander said is what I have been trying to say for several threads now.
Well, I have a long day tomorrow… nite all!!
Good nite, good luck, and god bless, who/whatever you conceive of God to be…
Well, Nathan, either you are just a plain old fashioned trouble maker, or you have a problem with authority figures, or you just want to be a PITA!! Whatever, nite nite!!
Hey Chas.!
Thanks for jumping on my case for asking a question. And for your in depth knowledge of Libertarians.
Here is a little scoop for you. Libertarians are a ‘live and let live’ kind of people. We don’t condone/seek/endorse/promote the use of force to make others conform to what we think is the right path. It does not preclude us from having opinions or even being judgmental about how other people are living/acting.
Well I guess Chas has left the floor along with his friend in Frisco Captain America, the equal rights for all guy.
chas: You can’t dismiss biblical text with a simple “that’s fundamentalist hype”. It says what it says. You can scream and shout “poor interpretation, extremely poor interpretation”, but why in the world would I think that your interpretation of biblical text would be superior in any way to my own? Because you are a “highly educated and trained professional”? C’mon.
And as born again believers, are we not indwelt by the Holy Spirit to guide us? Since I assume you aren’t, or we wouldn’t be having this discussion, the answer is yes.
This just in from the news desk,highlights from todays open thread:
Nathan opens with a bold post on discussion of the issues, WE BLOG’s one-sided approach, and the many real value questions voters should be concerned with. He is challenged all day long not on the relevance of his initial post (and significant), but on biblical interpretations mostly by bible expert Chas, and margerines king Parkay.
Distracted by those possing an afront to his christian views, Nathan ends the night have a day long dissertation of the bible on a religious biblical note.
Writerdog, a troll no doubt, posts one significant post on the republican party getting a check up from the neck up, and disappears. Affliation with the WEBLOG staff is a presumption on this poster.
Triple XXX, the movie genre buff, starts the daily ‘Wow Is Me, the trolls are here dialogue’, which captures Chas and Captain America’s ears.
Writers of substance Tracy, Kev post some real pieces related to the national level politic’s of the party line.
Steven Davis posts to Nathan supporting the WEBLOG’s one sided reporting, but challenges Nathan to do their work for them. Stephen later digresses, feeling the need to post the standards of conduct for the WEBLOG, in the world according to him and the liberal regulars of the blog. We predict these postulates will become important food for future postings, for those who are concerned with the proliferating numbers of non-conforming posters on the blogs. There must be approved standards of conduct for free speech on these pages.
Most of the rest of the day was centered on the testimony from various preachers, religious EXPERTS, and biblical researchers, about the writings and life of a one Jesus, who died some 2,000+ years ago. THe news desk could come to no conclusion on the righteousness of any of the participants in this debate. Although one has to wonder if the man Jesus, is laughing his ass off at the various opinions, and name-calling expressed by these writers. Some of them are called “liars” in the thread.
In conclusion, this reporter CAN say with certainty, that this WEBLOG is not discussing the candidates for office, the problems facing this nation, nor the opportunities for improvement to the lot in life for Americans.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars; see that ye be not troubled stupid. For these all these things must come to pass, but the end is not here yet. For nations will rise against nation, kingdoms against blah, blah, blah, and famines, and pestilences (a weird form of TB), and earthquakes in some pretty weird places.
Sad times. Some will die, some will screw each other, and some will hate trolls.
Many NIC’s will rise and deceive many.
And lots’ more stuff which could be considered signs and seasons.
But none of you will know the hour – unless you are ME or the old man.
SO chill out, all this will pass, but those of you who are righteous will move on to the WEBLOG eternal.
Matthew 25
After careful evaluation, and much discussion, we have concluded that neither Adam, nor Eve had belly buttons.
Our final analysis has determined therfore that neither had belly button rings.
Capn:
A serious question. You wrote earlier that conservatives – wait, I gotta scroll back and get your words correctly: cons “who loathe the 14th amendment.”
I’m a conservative. I do not loathe the 14th amendment; on the contrary. Further, I know few conservatives who “loathe” the 14th amendment.
So – I guess I wonder just how you conclude that?
Biblican Researcher you are a LIAR!!!
Genisus 1:1 Says in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. YOU CAN ONLY CREATE ONE TIME bozo. So it was all done in howEVER long it took HIM to do it.
It wasn’t until verse 2 that the shit hit the fan. It says the earth was (became=Tohu bohu) without form and void and everything HE created got DARK!
Some bad stuff happened man between what God created in the beginning, and verse 2. Could be eons to time. Bazillion years!
But there could have been dinasours, glaciers, global cooling, global warming, all kinds of bad stuff man.
Maybe this is when the angel Lucifer took his trip? Who knows?
But the original paradise could have had man, monkeys, apes, or whatEVER. All in verse one.
So sorry charlie, there COULD HAVE BEEN belly buttons in the original creation by the great wizard God.
Troll repellant on special, Aisle 5 at WalMart Super Centers everywhere..
Outlander, you said: “but why in the world would I think that your interpretation of biblical text would be superior in any way to my own?”
I didnt offer any interpretation of those texts.. only commentary on the interpreters….
And secondly, anhy interpretation I might offer is just that… my interpretation… no more superior or inferior to any other, especially since we can never know the “right” one…
slaughter is that you undercover?
parkay,”confirming the ineffectiveness of the dangerous Plan B contraceptive overdose toreduce surgical abortions or unwanted pregnancies” no, that confirms that it does not lower the incidence of abortions. That study in Scotland is the only data on that, btw.
“Data is lacking to assure safe usage” There was enough data for the FDA, AMA, and many other professional medical organizations to issue professional statement based on many studies that it is indeed safe. So much so that the FDA approved it for OTC use in those over 18 and with a prescription for those under that age.
“As for IVF, I am not opposed as long as all the human eggs fertilized are implanted with the opportunity for live birth. Freezing and thawing will kill some fertilized embryos. I would prefer that nearly all orphans were adopted before promoting IVF instead of adoption.- – -Posted by: parkay | July 25, 2007 at 09:41 PM ”
Hypocrite Parkay is thy name!
You are not opposed to IVF as long as all fertilized embryos are implated? That would be like saying you are not opposed to abortion as long as no fetus are killed.
ANY time IVF is done, dozens of eggs are fertilized, many are implanted with the express knowledge that they will not successfully implant and will ‘die’ and the rest are frozen or destroyed. This always happens, exactly like every time there is an abortion, a fetus dies.
If you truely believe a fertilized egg is a living being there is no way you could EVER support IVF, regardless if all the orphans are adopted or not!
. you meet bin laden in an alley what do you do give him a hug or slit his throat?
Posted by: Horst Wessell | July 26, 2007 at 12:19 AM
I think the liberal equivalent is to offer a 50 million dollar reward to whomever has the courage and fortitude to go after Osama.
Hey ‘give war a chance, quit calling W a Liberal!
“`How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?’
JEREMIAH 8:8
“I do not believe that there will be any sign which would PREDICT Christs coming. A sign doesn’t have to predict anything to be a sign.”
What would make a “sign” a “sign”, if said “sign” did not predict anything. The above is my nomination for the _dumbest_ thing you have ever posted – which is no small feat given the huge number of candidates.