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Open thread 7/24
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted July 24, 2007 at 1:04 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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204 Comments
After 5 years, where are all the “terrorist’s attacks? Even 9/11 was payback by Arabs for all the US has financed to kill them.
I’m sure that Bush and his Neocons/Zionists will blow-up something in America and blame it on the Arabs, but where is “terrorism?”
Do the Palestinians “terrorise” the Zionist-Jews or just fightback?
Where is all the “terrorism” other than in Nathan’s little sick mind?
“terrorism” does not exist other than as a “selling slogan”
I think that America has quit buying the “terrorism-crap.”
We are all fed-up with that crap and all the money it costs and the misery it causes.
Pro-life: A 1000lb bomb under one arm and a Bible under the other arm, and not much under the Hat.
Good morning Ed.I see you are in rare form this fine morning.My ‘morning rant’ submitted for your approval:
Let’s say I break into your house….Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.Hmmm….
Okay, say I break into your house. When you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, “I’ve made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I’ve done all the things you don’t like to do. I’m hard working and honest (except for when I broke into your house).
According to the liberal plans:You are required to let me stay in your house.You are required to add me to your family’s insurance plan.You are required to educate my kids.You are required to provide other benefits to me & to my family.
By the way, my friend will do all of your yard work because he is also hard working and honest, except for that breaking in thingy. Can we just forget about that?I know,….why don’t we call the break-in an “unconventional job search”?
If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket yourhouse carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be here.It’s only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I’m just trying to better myself. I’m a hard working and honest, person, except for well, you know, the unconventional job search thingy.
And what a deal it is for me! I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.
You don’t want to be a bigoted racist do you?No? Good.I’ll finish the dishes while my friend weed-eats.After that, I’ll need a break to drop my kids off at Public School #123, and then go to the DMV to renew my driver’s license.
Tracy
Good Morning!
In America, when People break the Law, they go to jail. They can argue all they want but they still go.
We have immigration Laws: Enforce them.
Actually Tracy that sounds like Bush’s plan.
One 50 caliber machine-gun every 1 and 1/12 miles will close the border.
If you do not want to be shot, don’t come across, as the 50 cal has a killing range of 1 and 1/12 miles.
This method is effective and cheap.
{ The net could be extended to 3 miles }
Ed, a minefield would be even more efficient.
No, absolutely not. They could see the 50 cal. and know what was coming. They might gamble on not hitting a mine. The idea is a deterrent, not a trap.
If you have an overlapping crossfire, then you could post the machine guns about every 2 miles, and save a lot of money.
Of course, you’re talking about the death penalty – with no due process. Is that what “enforcing the law” has come to?
In this case yes. This is an invasion, or an act of war, if we put Mexico on notice.
Actually one 50 for each mile with extra snipers in each tower. Nobody gets through, so they’ll stop coming.
This is the only plan which will actually work.
Pro-life: A 1000lb bomb under one arm and a Bible under the other arm, and not much under the Hat.Posted by: Ed Friedemann | July 24, 2007 at 05:54 AM
One 50 caliber machine-gun every 1 and 1/12 miles will close the border.If you do not want to be shot, don’t come across, as the 50 cal has a killing range of 1 and 1/12 miles.This method is effective and cheap.{ The net could be extended to 3 miles }Posted by: Ed Friedemann | July 24, 2007 at 06:28 AM
Hypocrite much Ed?
Try this – no death sentence .
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6297149.stm
You children better be careful what you wish for! Close the borders and you’ll be making your own bed in motels and cooking your own cheeseburger at McDonalds.
No more drive throughs!
Hank
We’ll manage.
You children better be careful what you wish for! Close the borders and you’ll be making your own bed in motels and cooking your own cheeseburger at McDonalds.
No more drive throughs!
Hank
Ken, ding ding ding.You WIN!!!!
The NEOCON champion has forsaken his flock.Of course it was all just a bullshit act anyway.Bush is only concerned with one thing, opening new markets for him and his buddies who are all global players.
Global players? Like trying to take over the Mid-East oil fields? Say it isn’t so.
Like being in bed with the Bin Ladens and Saudi?
Like striving for a world government controlled by American military?
I just can’t believe that?
Sol
You’ve got some new misery for the Palestinians with a “Heat- Wave?”
That’s all it’s good for, as any weapons would take it out, except an AK-47.
And the 1000 lb bomb is a running thing about Nathan…pay attention.
Pay attention the mental midget tells me.
The heat ray is for border patrol dumb ass. If you could focus on anything else besides your precious Palestinians, MAYBE your comprehension would improve.
The other two posts show what an absolute hypocrite you are.
Hey ed, why don’t you fly on over to Palestine and lend your brothers a hand killing those nasty old Jews?
Where is all the “terrorism” other than in Nathan’s little sick mind?”terrorism” does not exist other than as a “selling slogan”I think that America has quit buying the “terrorism-crap.”We are all fed-up with that crap and all the money it costs and the misery it causes.Posted by: Ed Friedemann | July 24, 2007 at 05:18 AM
Terrorism DOES cause misery. I guess you haven’t been hearing about the IEDs, car bombs, and suicide bombers.
Get a clue ed, terrorism is a military tactic. Used to be called guerrilla warfare.
The shitforbrainsZionist is grumpy today.
And Ed is typically ignorant.
Notice a personal adage as opposed to discussing the post.
NICE form ed, nice form.
The Republicans screwed the American taxpayer again.
“Tax Break Used by Drug Makers Failed to Add Jobs”
By ALEX BERENSONPublished: July 24, 2007
Two years ago, when companies received a big tax break to bring home their offshore profits, the president and Congress justified it as a one-time tax amnesty that would create American jobs.
Drug makers were the biggest beneficiaries of the amnesty program, repatriating about $100 billion in foreign profits and paying only minimal taxes. But the companies did not create many jobs in return. Instead, since 2005 the American drug industry has laid off tens of thousands of workers in this country.
And now drug companies are once again using complex strategies, many of them demonstrably legal, to shelter billions of dollars in profits in international tax havens, according to their financial statements and independent tax experts.
In one popular accounting move, companies declare their foreign markets as far more profitable than their American businesses — even though drug prices are typically higher in the United States than anywhere else in the world.
Drug makers are not the only American multinationals using tax loopholes to declare large portions of their income beyond the reach of the Internal Revenue Service. The Brookings Institution estimates that multinational companies are using overseas tax shelters to lower their payments to the Treasury by about $50 billion a year.
But the drug industry accounts for one of the biggest portions of that shortfall, according to the I.R.S. and independent tax experts. And the nature of their business gives drug makers techniques, like sheltering valuable pharmaceutical patents in tax-friendly havens like Ireland, that many other industries cannot use.
Moreover, the sheer heft of the American drug industry, which had about $60 billion in pretax profits last year, can give disproportionate weight to the economic impact of its tax sheltering techniques.
Even though the tax amnesty legislation has expired, its passage encouraged companies to be even more aggressive about sheltering money, expecting another holiday in the future, said H. David Rosenbloom, director of the international tax program at New York University. Democrats and Republicans supported the legislation, which passed with sizable majorities in October 2004.
“Congress can swear on two stacks of Bibles that it’ll never do it again,” Mr. Rosenbloom said, “but they’ve lost their virginity.”
With a few narrow exceptions, the drug companies are supposed to be paying as much as 35 percent of their worldwide profits in United States federal taxes. In reality they pay much less.
Last year, for example Eli Lilly, the sixth-largest American drug maker, paid less than 6 percent of its profits of $3.4 billion to the United States government, according to its financial statement.
Amgen, the American biotechnology giant, which reported last year that 80 percent of its $14.3 billion in sales occurred in this country, paid about 22 percent in United States federal tax on its $4 billion in profits.
The discrepancy was possible because Amgen claimed a profit margin of almost 100 percent on its foreign sales, but only 15 percent on its American sales.
The I.R.S. has recently increased the number of examiners trying to find hidden profits overseas. It has even had some victories, as in February when the drug maker Merck agreed to pay $2.3 billion to the government to settle a claim it had hidden profits in a Bermuda partnership.
“This is really a priority for the service right now — there’s a lot of focus on cross-border transactions,” said Frank Y. Ng, the I.R.S. deputy commissioner for international tax matters. But even after adding resources, the I.R.S. has only about 500 examiners to review international returns.
Lilly said in a statement that it complied with the law in taking advantage of the 2005 tax amnesty, which enabled the company to avoid more than $2.3 billion in American taxes. Lilly said it believed that the 2005 tax break had encouraged investment in the United States, noting that the company, which is based in Indianapolis, has invested $1.3 billion in the state of Indiana alone.
Still, since the beginning of 2005, Lilly has cut its United States work force by more than 8 percent, reducing it to 22,000 jobs by last January.
Lilly also noted that its overall reported worldwide tax rate for 2006 — which includes taxes paid to other countries and taxes that it has deferred but will theoretically pay at some future date — was about 20 percent in 2006.
Pfizer, Merck and Amgen declined requests for comment.
Tax experts like Michael J. McIntyre, a law professor at Wayne State University in Detroit, say the drug makers are taking advantage of antiquated rules that work better for manufactured products like steel and automobiles.
Under this system, when companies transfer products between divisions in different countries, they must account for the sales internally through “transfer pricing.” But they have significant discretion in how they set prices for these transactions.
That turns out to be especially so for high-margin products like drugs, which in pill form cost only a few cents each to make once they have been invented, but can be sold for several dollars apiece. The hefty profit margins result in part from patents that can protect the drugs from competition for years. And by transferring those valuable patents overseas, companies can declare that their profits should follow the patents overseas as well.
Under the rules of transfer pricing, if a company moves patents or other so-called intangibles from its United States division to a foreign subsidiary, the foreign unit is supposed to pay the American division a fair-market price. But outsiders have a difficult time determining if companies have properly assessed the value of patents, trademarks and other intangible properties.
To further complicate matters, some corporate subsidiaries in tax-haven countries, like Singapore and the Netherlands, now directly finance research in the United States. So they own the patents without ever having to “buy” them from their American parents, Mr. McIntyre said.
“They don’t even have to push it offshore,” Mr. McIntyre said. “It’s already offshore. And once it’s offshore, they strip the income from the onshore activity.”
In theory, companies are only deferring taxes on the profits they shelter overseas, not permanently avoiding tax. If they bring the money back to the United States to distribute to their shareholders, they still have to pay American taxes on it.
But those rules were temporarily suspended when President Bush signed legislation in 2004 to let companies return overseas profits at a rate of 5.25 percent, far below the official tax rate of 35 percent, if they moved the money back by 2006.
During that period, multinational companies of all stripes moved a total of about $300 billion into the United States, avoiding about $90 billion in taxes. Among them, the pharmaceutical industry was the largest single beneficiary. Leading the pack was Pfizer, the world’s largest drug company, which repatriated $36 billion.
The quid pro quo was supposed to be that the drug industry would invest some of its tax windfall in American operations and jobs. Instead, struggling with a dearth of new blockbuster drugs, they have had mass layoffs. Again, Pfizer has been the leader, reducing its work force by about 8,000 in 2006 and saying early this year that it would lay off an additional 10,000 employees.
Some experts now say the current system of taxing overseas profits should be scrapped. Even the companies that take advantage of loopholes might benefit if the system were changed, because they could save money on tax planning and have more certainty that the I.R.S. would accept their returns, said Michael C. Durst, a former I.R.S. official who is now special counsel to the law firm Steptoe & Johnson.
The simplest solution, Mr. Durst said, would be shifting to a system in which companies would assign a portion of profit to each country where they made a sale, relative to the size of the sale. Instead of trying to tax profits made overseas, the United States government would simply take its share of the profits on American sales. Such a system would be harder for the companies to game, Mr. Durst said.
But he and other tax experts say that any effort to close loopholes, to be politically viable, might have to be combined with a lowering of the corporate tax rate from its current 35 percent. And no one expects any legislation of that sort, at least not before the next election.
I can tell you that VERY few tax breaks and such result in the promised jobs created. No kidding. They rarely meet their goals. And there is little media follow up later if 100 jobs were created but 150 were promised.
Smart communities have instituted some benchmarks, but most of the time, elected officials hand out the breaks and then HOPE no one finds out the promises were never kept.
And the media is on to the next bright and shiney object with never thought on accountability. And you know THAT isnt going to come from the folks who gave out the incentives in the first place.
I found out last nite, that if you post something on here you heard on the radio, that some folks get really squirrely over it, cause they cant go google something and try to distract from what it is you said, and then the ad hominem’s come flying out of all directions…
And before you know it, somebody is arguing over what IS is, or something like that!! LOL
The posts here can be simplified:
I. As the number of posts increases on any given thread at the WE Blog, the probability of ad hominem attacks approaches unity.
II. Once the first ad hominem attack occurs, the rate of these attacks grows expoentially.
III. The editors can chide trolls into behaving better, but this effect is temporary (less than one week) in duration.
IV. Posters with zero valid points to make will use the term “You People” (or some equally innane sweeping generalization) in a majority of their posts.
You got that right Steven
Ah, the resident Blog Whiners are out early today.
> Even 9/11 was payback by Arabs> for all the US has financed to> kill them.
This assertion, while fairly popular as a talking point, is unfounded (just read what the terrorists themselves have to say), and worse, ignores the stark reality of the nature and motivation of our attackers.
The jihadist mentality, while not indifferent to social, economic, and political dynamics, is driven primarily — and very strongly — by religious doctrine and sentiment. It’s not about “payback.”
Five years is but a short time in the jihadist mind. Despite the number of success stories of terrorist threats mitigated or averted over the past 6 or so years, I fear this threat to our country is still in its infancy.
Fuzztop, I would agree, especially if we dont get some kind of control over the wild religious mythology of our own country soon…
Follow the links between Bush Sr., Bush Jr., Carlyle Group, Tim Ossman, and the Saudis.
The Saudis wanted protection form Iraq. Bingo. Bush scores one for the Saudis.
Bushco wants control of the Mid-Eastern oil fields – i.e. an extended war to justify our presence. Bingo – enter the American trained and financed al-qaeda – led by, wait for it, none other than Bin Laden (Tim Ossman).
Take a look at the top investors in Carlyle over the last 10 years. Nice clientele huh?
That doesn’t even begin to scrape the surface of Halliburton.
Want to know how long we will be in Iraq? As long as it takes to get and keep their oil.
Think Hillary will change that? Don’t hold your breath. Think Giuliani will change that? He was in on the plan from jump.
Great options for us right?
Follow the links between another corrupt Congress, a senator, his son, and a party with leadership no different than we had before.
In January, the Senate passed the Transparency and Accountability Act by a vote of 98-0. It states “no member shall use his official position to introduce, request or otherwise aid the progress or passage of a congressional earmark that will financially benefit or otherwise further the pecuniary interest of a member … spouse … or immediate family of such a member.
Nebraska Sen. Ben Nelson (democrat) may be violating a key provision of a newly passed ethics bill by failing to disclose that his son is an as its marketing director at the Company — 21st Century Systems Inc. — to produce computer software for the military and received millions in federal tax money, much of it requested by the senator himself.Coburn claims the Pentagon has not ordered any of 21 CSI’s technology through the normal budgeting process, and military officials told Coburn it did not ask for and does not need the program. Instead, friends in Congress got the money for 21CSI outside the competitive process through earmarks.Critics say Nelson, who voted for the bill, should have disclosed the family conflict or refused to sponsor the earmark. (AP)
Here we have the pot calling the kettle black.
Name calling and finger pointing by both parties keeps the masses too busy to discriminate what is right and wrong with the lot of them. This is by design.
”
You children better be careful what you wish for! Close the borders and you’ll be making your own bed in motels and cooking your own cheeseburger at McDonalds.
No more drive throughs!
Hank”
Wait–rewind. CF2K just agreed with that venerable stopped clock, Hank Price. Huh. What are the odds?
Wait–rewind. CF2K just agreed with that venerable stopped clock, Hank Price. Huh. What are the odds?
Posted by: CF2K | July 24, 2007 at 09:26 AM
And that matters, why?
“Ah, the resident Blog Whiners are out early today.”
Thank you, for demonstrating Postulate IV so aptly. And, Postulate III every day.
“Thank you, for demonstrating Postulate IV so aptly. And, Postulate III every day.”
Not to mention, Postulate I. I want to go on record as saying that if the Editors of the WE were about anything, they would ban your sorry butt, forever.
The war is not over until Baskin-Robbins opens a Baghdad branch.
There one was on the Incirlik Air Base in Turkey Tracy.
It was so hot and humid there (near the sea) that just the walk from the store to an outside table would completely melt your cup of ice cream. :\
Ah, the resident Blog Whiners are out early today.
Posted by: Kansas | July 24, 2007 at 08:28 AM
Boy the above couple of posts by Stephen sure confirm that!
Postulate (unassigned):
whine Pronunciation verb, whined, whin•ing, noun–verb (used without object)
To snivel or complain in a peevish, self-pitying way: He is always whining about his problems. a whining utterance, sound, or tone. a feeble, peevish complaint.
This from today’s opinion page in the WE:**********DAVIS MERRITT: CIVIL WAR IS INEVITABLE, SO LET’S LEAVE IRAQ NOWBY DAVIS MERRITTIf U.S. troops leave Iraq this fall, a civil war will ravage the country and neighboring states may be drawn into a regional conflict.
If U.S. troops leave Iraq next spring, a civil war will ravage the country and neighboring states may be drawn into a regional conflict.
If U.S. troops leave Iraq in 10 years, a civil war will ravage the country and neighboring states may be drawn into a regional conflict.
If U.S. troops leave Iraq next Thursday, a civil war… well, you get the idea.
So let’s make it next Thursday.**********Anybody, care to try to refute this point?
Welcome, new troll!
And how are you whiner?
Davis Merritt?
Is he related to Professor David Merritt who used to work at the Eagle?
Steven,
Welcome to “new” troll, same as any “old” troll, right?
….and Kentucky Fried Chicken.
Mmmm, fried chicken. But Church’s is better than KFC.
And the _best_ fried chicken in Kansas is at Chicken Annies, in Crawford County.
Tom,
KFG may take offense about the best chicken in Kansas remark. :)
From what I’ve read, Ksfarmgrrl is absolutely right about the tax incentives given often not producing promised results.
What does it tell us about taxes if a company can’t expand or stay in business unless it receives relief from taxes? Could taxes possibly be too high?
What message do we send when politically favored companies receive tax breaks, while their competitors have to pay taxes at the full level?
What environment do we create when businessmen find it more lucrative to lobby government for favors than producing goods and services that their customers want?
What environment do we create when businessmen find it more lucrative to lobby government for favors than producing goods and services that their customers want?
Posted by: anonymous | July 24, 2007 at 10:33 AM
anonymous,
They call that environment Washington D.C. or Topeka (or the State Capitol of your state.)
RepubliKhan–I have gone on record that The Eagle can check my IP address to see if I am multi-nic-ing and make the results publicly KNOWN.Will you do the same?
Posted by: CapnAmerica | July 23, 2007 at 09:43 PM
Well, it’s pointless Capn. I change the IP of my router every two weeks as a matter of practice.Posted by: Kansas | July 23, 2007 at 10:21 PM
So then you don’t mind?You’re willing to give The Eagle permission to publicly reveal whether two nics are coming from the same IP address as I am, correct?
Posted by: CapnAmerica | July 23, 2007 at 11:23 PM
The Eagle doesn’t have to post the actual IP address to verify that two posters have the same address.
I am willing to allow The Eagle to check on me and publicly post the results.
Will you do the same?
It’s a yes or no question, SlimeTroll.
See if you can summon the will to simply write “yes, I will” or “no, I won’t.”
Well, it’s pointless Capn. I change the IP of my router every two weeks as a matter of practice.Posted by: Kansas | July 23, 2007 at 10:21 PM
LMMFFGAO
What a liar.
No one cares Capn, you are wasting your time on your vendetta against me.
But if you want to continue to make yourself the laughing stock of the WE Blog, be my guest.
Tom,
You do realize you can reset the IP on a router if you use dynamic configuration.
It’s a fairly easy thing to do. Right now, my IP is different than it was two days ago. I think I changed it Saturday, let me check…
Yep, different IP on Saturday.
After being DOS’d a few times, I don’t care for my network being screwed up by “script kiddies.”
hee hee hee!
I didnt cook fried chicken for Tom, this time, so he is forgiven.
But ask him about the peach pie….
And again, you guys are feeding the trolls, why?
From my perspective it would be very difficult, if not impossible, for Capn to be the laughingstock of WE Blog; the competition is too great in that area.
Okay, there you have it, folks.
RepubliKhansas refuses to give The Eagle permission to try to verify if it is posting under other nics.
I have given permission. It has not.
How many others will go on record as giving The Eagle permission to check (as well as they can) whether you are posting under other nics?
Let’s see a list.
TOM….I’m in Labette Co.
The WAR IS ON TOM….
CHICKEN MARY’S IS BETTER…HA!
FrmGrrl–
I think we’ve got SlimeTroll in a pickle here.
Only someone who has something to hide would not allow The Eagle to publicly reveal if they had been nic-switching and trolling.
Since I’ve gone on record as asking The Eagle to “out” me if I’m doing it, that’s a strong piece of evidence that I’m NOT doing it.
Tellingly, RepubliKhansas will not allow it . . .
MORNING LINDA, KFG….
The Eagle has already checked me out. They’ve decided to let me live. Despite a few votes to the contrary.
Well, let’s see Capn, if you persist on trying to reveal my identity, i will have to lodge a complaint about you with Phillip Brownlee.
Please don’t make me do that, as I feel that everyone needs to speak their mind on a Blog and I don’t think you would care for your TypePad account being banned from the Blog.
Why not just discuss the issues and it’s okay to get “dirty” once in awhile.
This constant attempt to out me will only get you in trouble.
Tracy,
I’ve heard of Chicken Mary’s, but haven’t had the chance to eat there. Where is it?
I know capn. And I would volunteer to be checked too if I thought it would matter. Until the editors ban this troll, nothing matters.
And trying to PROVE something to it is futile. Did you really think he would agree?
::nails up STOP TROLL FEEDING sign::
AGAIN!
I’m game. Check away. I don’t have a super decoder encrypted email IP addy changer either, so I should be easy.
Farmgrrl fed me a MOUNTAIN of food, which started with a giant pitcher of homemade sangrias. “Giant” was then made to look small against the 2″, hand-cut-to-order rib eye steaks.
The peach pie was a nice touch ;)
I ’spect that if she’d fed me fried chicken, I’d be singing its praises. But alas, the coop was full of pullets, no fryers. ::sigh::
Hi Tracy! I like the chicken in both Mary’s and Annie’s.
Ya’ll just gotta have enough intestinal fortitude to just not speak to any trollies.KanAss, your cheap tricks are not that cool.Do you realize that you play the same roll here on the blog that was played by a mutt bitch on “The Outlaw Josie Whales”?Just hangin’ round, waitin’ for scraps and gettin’ spit on a lot.Takes a special personality to enjoy sumpin’ like that.
They are resting comfortably in the freezer Tom, pending your next visit.
Hee hee hee hee. I love stuffing my pals! My family’s motto? “If you havent cooked too much, you havent cooked enough!”
And btw, Tom, I have had THREE meals from the leftovers and think I still have a couple more left.
You’ll just have to eat more next time!
Tom, I beleive it’s near Frontenac.Been years since I’ve been there.
Ah, the age old S.E.K. chicken wars.
KanAss, anon comments don’t mean squat anyway.Just a mere annoyance.Like graffitti.
Well, let’s see Capn, if you persist on trying to reveal my identity, i will have to lodge a complaint about you with Phillip Brownlee.
Posted by: Kansas | July 24, 2007 at 10:54 AM
Yeah, you do that you little plick.
Tell me what he says.
I have a strong hunch that Mr. Brownlee’s going to be all on my side.
Thanks, SolDVB. Good show.
Okay, that makes three now: Chas, Sol, and CapnA.
I think we’ve got something here.
Who else will join the list?
Me.
I would volunteer to be checked too
Okay, I’m counting that as a YES from FarmGrrl too . . .
That’s five.
TRACY?
yes
Hit post too soon :(
Yes, but I stand by my statement that it is futile. I dont think the WE will do it, and we already know the troll switches nics and whatever regularly.
I know you guys are real, but it’s starting to sound like sock puppets in here, and we are resorting to fried chicken to change the subject.
Just stop feeding the damn troll. He hates that more than anything.
KGrrl–
I totally agree. But it’s hard to stop feeding it if you don’t know who it is . . .
He has admitted nic switching. That is about as far as it goes. They already have a sign in thru TypePad. He creates new nics there at his leisure. There really isn’t anyway, other than blocking him.
The router/IP switching can be easily squashed by his ISP.
Me too.
Okay, that’s a yes from newbie Lynz.
Later today, I’ll draft an e-mail we can send to the Webmaster.
Of course, The Eagle may opt not to verify anything. It’s their call. And the verification process may not be foolproof.
But we will have given public notice that WE have nothing to hide.
Anything that slows down the TROLL’s disruptions and makes life more difficult and cumbersome for it is a good thing.
I know I don’t post on here often, but I have nothing to hide, and people are free to check me out…
http://americanresearchgroup.com/economy/
More bad news for the Bush dead-enders.
Bush approval down to 25 percent.
What was Nixon’s when he resigned?
There are three ways to get an IP address or IP address block:
1. Pay for a static address or block of addresses. A block of addresses can be as small as four and as large as your ISP business needs. These will be changed very, very rarely. Like “never.” The only people who use static IP’s have a business reason to do so.
2. Get a dynamic IP through DHCP. In the case of aDSL, sDSL and cable, DHCP-assigned dynamic addresses expire after a time set by your upstream ISP. TTL is usually 24 hours, sometimes up to a week. You can force a lease to a new address by rebooting your router, but you don’t get to set the max TTL. In any case, your new lease will almost certainly be in the same block of addresses assigned to your physical neighborhood’s upstream router.
3. Use a dial-up connection to AOL or some other service. Not only do you get a new IP address every time you dial in, but you can also call different dialup nodes and get on a completely different IP block.
So. I’m going to short-answer the unbegged question: It doesn’t matter what the Eagle comes back with on their IP check; there are ways to get around IP blocks that even someone as stupid as the troll can figure out.
But my point from earlier remains: The troll is a liar.
By allowing the WE blog admins to verify IP addresses, NOTHING will be given out here on the blog. Your IP addy and email addy will still remain server side. All that will happen is that the WE Blog will know who posts under which nics.
Should they decide to post that info, all that would be posted would be the nics.
Thanks, anon.
Wow . . . that’s practically EVERYBODY who’s on right now.
Except RepubliKhansas . . .
Here’s my IP: 69.147.111.160.
Enjoy. What you going to do with it?
Please, do not verify me.
Except, the problem is Capn, is that, as we have well seen, blocking his typepad account does no good, because he just comes in under a regular user, like I do… (sorry, I don’t want to take the time to create a typepad or typekey account, and have to sign in each time I post on here, when the blog gives me the option to remember my personal info so I don’t have to!) so even if we CAN prove that he is nic-switching, which we really don’t need to since he admits it, there isn’t much in reality that they can do… ESPECIALLY if he continually alters his IP address (which to my understanding is walking a fine line towards illegal, but I will have to do further research and get back to you on that) because they would not be able to block all IP addresses… I wonder if his ISP is aware of his router, because most ISP’s do not allow routers unless THEY install them… or at least, they charge you for it…HMMMM…. many things to ponder here….
Uh, Capn,not everybody who posts under 2 nics is a troll. There are other reasons to do that besides trolling.
Right, Tom.
The point is not really will the Eagle verify if given permission to or can the Eagle even verify.
The point is that we have said on the record that (if possible) The Eagle can check and report on us publicly.
Everybody but ONE.
SOB, just tried to ping it. Are you sure that is your external IP addy?
I’ll have your credit card info in about 32 seconds…
Just kidding.
Just noticing how much liberals really believe in free speech.
If a particular conservative poster is effective or frustrates them, it’s let’s shout him down, or ignore him, or see if we can get him banned. I’ve seen it happen more than once.
This is a blog. I am a fictional character, just like CapnAmerica. So what if someone changes nics more often than the half a dozen times, CapnAmerica has.
If Phillip won’t ban him, will you all please go on strike again???
“….because most ISPs do not allow routers…” Wrongo.
You people need to stop talking about stuff you clearly don’t understand.
Sorry, Snuffy. I disagree.
When someone posts under different nics, it makes it seem like more people out there in Blog-land support that position than actually do.
It’s a deception.
I have ping response disabled.
I don’t know about that, anon. Doesn’t everyone who has wireless internet in their home do so by installing a wireless router? I didn’t ask Cox for permission to install the two I use in my home.
Outlander–
I haven’t changed my nic in over a year.
How bout my wife gripes at me for blogging too much? She doesn’t know about my “Snuffy” nic.
Outlander would defend Satan himself if he supported CON values . . . which, now that I think about it, Satan does!
Oh . . . the wife . . . well, that’s something altogether different.
Funny, has my wife been talking to your wife?
I get the same flak, heh.
SOB – good man – er – woman — errrr — Good person !!!!
I shure hope not. Bad JuJu when the women folk get their heard together, lol!
Btw, outlander–
If you’re a “fictional” character, then why should I believe anything you say.
Harry Potter is a fictional character. I don’t believe him either.
Since this is the open thread today I have a question about some legislation that is before our illustrious elected leaders.
“Democrats cut ‘John Doe’ provisionBy Audrey HudsonJuly 19, 2007Congressional Democrats today failed to include a provision in homeland security legislation that would protect the public from being sued for reporting suspicious behavior that may lead to a terrorist attack, according to House Republican leaders.
“This is a slap in the face of good citizens who do their patriotic duty and come forward, and it caves in to radical Islamists,” said Rep. Peter T. King, New York Republican and ranking member of the House Homeland Security Committee.
Republicans wanted the provision included in final legislation, crafted yesterday during a House and Senate conference committee, that will implement final recommendations from the September 11 commission.”
Does this strike a note in the heart of sensible people everywhere? Does it make you feel safer when you fly? How long will it be before fear of large legal bills to fight charges force many to ignore suspicious travelers? Will it take another 911 before we realize the kind of war we are now facing? Will this be the stance the demos take if elected to the presidency?
Okay, the lawn isn’t going to mow itself.
I think we made our point: some people who post here are honest and forthright and willing to be held accountable, and ONE person is not.
Back to regularly scheduled programming.
Ksgrm,
Perhaps the Democrats take their oaths to the Constitution seriously, unlike their fascist counterparts:
United States Constitution, Amendment 6 – Right to Speedy Trial, Confrontation of Witnesses. Ratified 12/15/1791.
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
SOB,
HAHAHAHAHAHA
69.147.111.160
OrgName: YahooOrgID: YHOOAddress: 701 First AveCity: SunnyvaleStateProv: CAPostalCode: 94089Country: US
NetRange: 69.147.64.0 – 69.147.127.255CIDR: 69.147.64.0/18NetName: A-YAHOO-US5NetHandle: NET-69-147-64-0-1Parent: NET-69-0-0-0-0NetType: Direct AllocationNameServer: NS1.YAHOO.COMNameServer: NS2.YAHOO.COMNameServer: NS3.YAHOO.COMNameServer: NS4.YAHOO.COMNameServer: NS5.YAHOO.COMComment:RegDate: 2006-06-26Updated: 2006-09-22
UMMM, well then tell that to Cox cable there SOB – becuase unless you “fraudulently” place a router on your line, they will CHARGE you for each individual IP address that you use… you cannot change your IP address… now, I am not saying you can’t do it without telling them, I am saying if they are aware you have a router, you are paying for each additional IP address – I know because I have played the ping pong game with Cox several times…
I saw no point made. Just more silly talk of technology not understood by all.
Ksgrm–
What you see as a shield, I see as a sword.
I could report YOU just as your flight has its last boarding call.
How do you like spending a night in a foreign city on your dime because somebody thought you “looked suspicious”?
The terrorists that attacked us on 9-11 shouldn’t have even been in the US, let alone flying on airplanes.
It was a screw up by a guy on vacation.
With proper oversight, this should be able to happen again.
should NOT be able to happen again.
Looks like SOB is one of the TROLL’s sock puppets.
The router/IP switching can be easily squashed by his ISP.
Posted by: SolDevVB | July 24, 2007 at 11:14 AM
They can if they want to SolDevVB, but they will be losing $170.00 a month in my digital subscriptions to them.
anon,
They don’t have to be publicly exposed IPs. You can bring in a single line to a PC. The PC acts or is a server. The server connects to the router, you run your home network. No harm no foul.
I use Vonage and am required to have a router. That router feeds my server, my phone, and home network. Again, no harm no foul. My ISP defines my IP addy.
Wow. More pointless BS.
What the hell . . .
1) Chicken Annies. I grew up in that neck of the woods. Great chicken, but the real prize is the huge plate of onion rings and Frontenac bread. If you’re over there, check it out.
2) Capn – Why do you care what nic someone posts under? Deal with the issue, not the poster.
“When someone posts under different nics, it makes it seem like more people out there in Blog-land support that position than actually do.
It’s a deception.”
So what? Your nic is a deception, as is, to a certain extent, mine, and everyone elses. This is not a poll; it doesn’t pretend to be scientific. Certainly no one has any illusions that the posters on this blog are in any way representative of Kansans. Post under as many nics as you like; as far as I know, it’s not illegal, immoral, or unconstitutional. Knock yourself out.
What this is really about is shutting up someone who annoys the he** out of you. Free speach for me, but not for thee. As usual.
Get over yourself.
ummm….dynamic IP you know. It changes. My ISP would charge more to maintain a static one.
Here you go, SOB, for your reading pleasure…
“Check with your ISP to make sure that installing a router is OK. If one wasn’t provided with your account and the only thing between your computer and the ISP is a DSL or cable modem, the ISP can “see” your computer, which is extremely helpful during troubleshooting calls. Adding a router makes it impossible for your ISP to send diagnostic signals to your NIC card or computer, and many technicians will ask that you connect the line from the modem directly to the computer’s NIC card during a troubleshooting session. Also, some ISPs won’t let customers share a connection between multiple computers without levying some sort of fee, so be aware that if you run a router without checking the ISP’s policies, your ISP may be able to cut off your service if it finds out. DSL companies are generally more lenient than cable providers when it comes to routers (in fact, many DSL providers encourage the practice), but it pays to know your ISP’s policy.”
For further reference, the website from which the above information came : http://www.smartcomputing.com/Editorial/article.asp?article=articles/2003/s1403/12s03/12s03.asp&articleid=14255&guid=
GMC–
Unbelievable, man.
The right-wing (except for the notable exception of SolDVB) have no problem with a nic-switching lying disruptive TROLL as long as it isn’t bothering THEM.
That, in a nutshell is modern Conservativism: I got mine, and f*** everybody else to hell.
Cap you and Tom make some good points. I have read many reports about the instance of the Imams.
Many passengers reported suspicious behaviors. Should these passengers have stayed silent?
In the future when we see something that just isn’t right do we just ignore it?
Many things about the 911 terrorists should have sent up red flags but the public had been trained to stay silent. When future pilots want to learn to take off and not land why wasn’t this reported to someone? We are trained as good citizens to live and let live. We are so afraid of offending someone that we overlook behaviors that should be very suspicious.
I know that the terrorists attacked us because of ‘big bad bush’ in most peoples judgement. I think they attacked us because they just plain don’t like us.
I hope others feel as I do and will let their representatives know it. I don’t encourage false claims and of course they should be punished – I just happen to feel this wasn’t one of those times. I sincerely feel this is an attempt to silence those who would speak out so when something is really going on we will be like lambs being led to the slaughter.
All the ISP cares about is how much traffic goes through their line. They set the limit on that. It matters not if it is from one PC or 100. Any PC/Internet user should have a router regardless of any quoted general suggestion. It is a basic line of protection….among other purposes.
It was reported to someone, Ksgrm.
BushCo and his love affair of all things Saudi made him turn a blind eye to the threat.
Almost HALF of the “foreign fighter” (suicide bombers and Al Qaeda) in Iraq are SAUDIS.
And who are we all pissed off at?
Why, Iran of course . . .
“I don’t encourage false claims and of course they should be punished . . . ”
Well, wait a minute.
How can they be “false claims” if one really believes them to be true?
SOB,
Especially if you are Yahoo right?
Cox Cable Kansas allows up to three computers to be hooked up to one router per account. After that you have to pay for additional connections.
You can get a static IP address, but you have to pay for it.
Businesses use Static IP’s for internal Intranets and for Virtual Networks. There are reasons for this I won’t go into here, kind of boring.
The IP’s on my computers are all different from my router. I also have two routers for different purposes and a gigaport Networking switch.
I know the policy of Cox Cable and refreshing the IP of my router is permissible.
Why? Because they have the M.A.C. address of the router. As long as that doesn’t change, they could care less.
We are pissed off at Iran because they are training terrorist and financing them..
And the Saudis just provide the suicide bombers.
So that’s okay, then.
well capn,
what do you want to do to the Saudis
BG,
And the Saudis are doing what? Planning pic-nics?
Capn -
Once again, you attack the poster and ignore the substance. Typical.
Sigh – once again:
“So what? Your nic is a deception, as is, to a certain extent, mine, and everyone elses. This is not a poll; it doesn’t pretend to be scientific. Certainly no one has any illusions that the posters on this blog are in any way representative of Kansans. Post under as many nics as you like; as far as I know, it’s not illegal, immoral, or unconstitutional. Knock yourself out.”
Wanna stick to the point? Or do you even have one?
Frankly, you create your own problems with what you term the “trool,” simply because he dares to disagree with you. Challenge his points to your heart’s content. Run down every claim and disprove them, if you like. Or ignore him, if you can (I don’t think you can).
But what you seek to do is shut him up. This from a “defender” of the 1st amendment.
Once again, typical. Free speach for me, but not for thee.
BTW – I’ll not give the Eagle permission to “verify” jack. Nor you, or anyone else. Relative anonymity (such as it is) is part of the attraction of this forum.
GMC, have you seen the conversations he has with himself?
It is annoying. When I see a post from you, I know what to expect. When a new nic shows up, it is an unknown. When that new nic starts in with typical pointless rants and it becomes obvious that it is another post-er, it is just annoying.
I think that is the point. It is annoying and appears dishonest.
They have my 2 email addies,and my blogspot URL.Since I’ve been a no-show for so damned long, they decided to email me for verification.
Besides….remember me?The dude that started this movement to rid this bloggie of the graffitti problem?Helloooo….BOYCOTT, etc.
That’s right.I’m beyond reproach on this issue.HA!
Wow, GMC.
That was so reasonable of you, so calm, detached and logical.
Spoken by someone who has never had all kinds of despicable s*** posted over their nic . . .
As far as that goes….HELL, everybody else here has my email addies and URL also.Right?Lemme see: Sol, Capn, Hank, Nathan, Mary, KFG, Steven, Julie, Linda, Ed, I think GMC does or did.
Did I miss anybody?
If’n I missed ya’, and ya’ feel the need to have my personal info, just hit the URL, stop by anytime.
I am under the impression that the provision stopped someone from suing you in civil court, not from being summoned to a criminal trial.
Capn, you keep complaining about the Saudi’s, I was just curious if you had a thought of your own, or if you just Complain about everybody else’s..
the Saudi’s help more than the Iranians..They have even arrested quit a few terrorist..or maybe they are helping us quietly so they don,t make waves for themselves..
No, Capn, I’ve not had the displeasure of someone else posting under my nic. And I do not defend that practice. But if you have a way to stop that, and enforce it, good luck. To a large extent, that’s the good and bad side of this forum; it’s the price of the anonymity. I guess the Eagle could require registration and sign in, but it doesn’t, for whatever reasons.
Of course, I don’t write that much, I don’t write on most threads (I don’t write at all unless I think I can add something of value or have a particular interest). I don’t have the time. I don’t go out of my way to label or attack other posters; for example, rarely if ever have I addressed or labeled any poster other than by his/her chosen nic or some shortened version of it (i.e. “Capn” to you); but doing so is stock in trade for you (and no, you’re not alone).
As I said, to a large extent, you create your own problem. Debate, refute, or ignore. Those are your choices. But neither you, nor anyone else (except perhaps our hosts, if they choose to do so), gets to decide who posts, or under what name.
It’s not “free speach for me, but not for thee.” Sorry. Those be the rules. Live with them.
As a native southeast Kansan, I’m familiar with the Chicken Wars. I pitched a story to the old KS Magazine to tour all the legendary fried chicken places in the state.
Although loyalties are as intense as the great protestant/catholic divide, Chicken Annie’s and Chicken Mary’s serve the same basic chicken. The founders were from the same family (cousins or sisters or something) and Mary opened up a restaurant across the road from Annie years ago. I don’t think the family rivalry is as intense as it used to be, but among each restaurant’s clientele, the passions are fervent. One or the other (maybe both) serves a garlic-laced potato salad that’s to kill for. Good stuff. 4 Drumsticks out of 5.
The Chicken Shack in Bronson. About halfway between Ft. Scott and Iola on Highway 54, about the only think in Bronson is the Chicken Shack, and it’s only open on weekends. The chicken is a little bland for my tates but the German potato salad side is pretty good. I seriously think the mostly farmers-and-wives-after-church crowd on Sundays goes so Mom doesn’t have to cook and Pop can oggle the high school girls from Moran and Uniontown who work as servers. (The Chicken Shack is always closed on those schools’ Prom Nights.) 2-and-a-half Drumsticks out of 5 (with an extra half a drumstick for the potato salad and cute waitresses).
I remember the Brookville Hotel when it was in, well, Brookville. The’ve moved it to Abeline but the old family-style meal is apparently the same. I remember the chicken as tasty and the biscuits almost light enough to float, so you’ve *gotta” slather ‘em with cream gravy. 4 drumsticks out of 5.
Although technically not in Kansas, Strouds in Kansas City, Missouri is comfort-food heaven for many people. The orignal southtown location (an ancient roadhouse) was torn down a year or so ago for road construction, but there are other locations in the metro. For purists, the new places aren’t the same, but the chicken’s the same. Nicely seasoned (if a bit too crusty) and crunchy on the outside, tender and juicy on the inside. On some nights you could see tables with four generations chowing down on Stroud’s family-style dinners. Personally, I think the chicken itself rates 3-and-a-half to 4 Drumsticks out of 5, but the sense of community in a big town like Kansas City made the old place special. A lot of people are disappointed Stroud’s hasn’t opened up a southtown restaurant to replace the original place. I’ve heard there’s a Stroud’s in Wichita, but I’ve never tried it.
There are other places, but I can’t remember ‘em.
“The Saudi Arabian relatives of Osama bin Laden were also investors in Carlyle until October 2001 when the family sold its $2.02 million investment back to the firm in light of the public controversy surrounding bin Laden’s family after the terrorist attack on September 11, 2001.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlyle_Group
I’ve been to Bronson too.Nice rocky, hilly area.
LTP, YOU BASTID!!! What a thing to post at lunchtime as I sit here eating my “cup o noodles”.
I too remember The old days at the Brookvile Hotel. Man, that was chicken! And what atmosphere.
There is indeed a Strouds here in Wichita. It’s on Hillside just south of 37th.
But still, I’d have to say Farmie’s chicken and potato salad are hard to beat. Yum, yum!!!!
Wow, I posted something contrary to liberals over two hours ago and you guys are still talking about it!!!
Amazing, I’ll bet when you cry to the blog you sound like a bunch of children. You must, your posts times two hours sound that way.
And I will use whatever NIC I want when I post. If I post a good one and try to stay with it, Captain UNamerica follows me around and posts cusswords, mean statements, and contradictory comments (if I say the sky is blue).
I have broken no law. I just get my view out there.
If you could REFRAIN yourself to posting ABOUT the subject matter I posted, and not worry about your silly little “troll” game, you might get beyond.
Don’t like what I post? IGNORE IT.Don’t agree with it? Post something of your opinion.
But don’t keep whining all day about it. Geez, I thought Kansas was right hours ago when he called you whiners.
Because of that, you revert to something less than you would be if we were all sitting at the same table?
And why? Just post opinions. Don’t worry about your alias, team posters,buddies, and electronic make believe friends.
Just post your opinions and get on with it.
“I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.
The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorized[sic] and displaced.
…
And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.
…
This means the oppressing and embargoing to death of millions as Bush Sr did in Iraq in the greatest mass slaughter of children mankind has ever known, and it means the throwing of millions of pounds of bombs and explosives at millions of children – also in Iraq – as Bush Jr did, in order to remove an old agent and replace him with a new puppet to assist in the pilfering of Iraq’s oil and other outrages.”
OBLhttp://english.aljazeera.net/English/archive/archive?ArchiveId=7403
And one other thing, I am not everyone on here whom you claim to be NIC’ing. I posted twice, early this morning. But my posts were not interruptions. But you spent hours complaining about it.
Two short posts and you want a federal investigation?
Freedom dies here.
Okay, GMC, I hear what you’re saying, but just because we can’t stop trolls from posting over our nics doesn’t mean that you have to criticise the people who complain about it.
I would think you’d be more interested in condemning the post-er who causes the problems rather than condemning those of us who complain about the problems.
Anyway, one can have a well-moderated blog that is completely anonymous. Cf, FreeRepublic or DemocraticUnderground.
There are a number of steps The Eagle could take to clean this place up. Volunteer moderators (mods) would be one quick and easy way.
The Eagle wants the “hits” but they don’t want to do the work to keep it civil and workable.
Psuedo–
Who we’re posting to matters just as much as what the person says.
If I claim to be Rush Limbaugh’s brother and I say that he will say anything to be rich and famous and he doesn’t believe anything he blathers on and on about on the radio, how are you going to “argue” against that?
If I claim to be 12 year old boy who was raped by George W. Bush last year at Camp David, how are you going to prove that wrong?
And how does one “ignore” a post-er if they keep switching their nic?
These appeals to just deal with what the post says is nothing but justifications to cover posters who lie.
“And it was to these sorts of notions and their like that the British diplomat and others were referring in their lectures at the Royal Institute of International Affairs. [When they pointed out that] for example, al-Qaida spent $500,000 on the event, while America, in the incident and its aftermath, lost – according to the lowest estimate – more than $500 billion.
Meaning that every dollar of al-Qaida defeated a million dollars by the permission of Allah, besides the loss of a huge number of jobs.
As for the size of the economic deficit, it has reached record astronomical numbers estimated to total more than a trillion dollars.”
Way to go Bushco, way to go…
Let’s take Ed Freidemann for instance.
The guy makes some good points from time to time.
But knowing that he refuses to admit the Holocaust against the Jews occured gives one an important perspective by which to judge all his future posts.
“GMC, have you seen the conversations he has with himself?”
Sorry to destroy your paranoid representation of me, but those are actually other posters not me.
And we should believe that why, Kansas?
Because you’ve been nothing but truthful in the past?
“A liar is never believed, even when he tells the truth.” Aesop
o…k…
Stop feeding the Capn.
Walk on by.
VT, VT….VeeeeTeeeee
Soooo………If the local sherrif implies, or even invites me to carry a concealed weapon without the legal formalities….You see where I’m going with this?
If I manage to carry illegaly long enough that it becomes common knowledge that I do so, can we just give me immunity and a liscense?
After all, I been good.Ain’t shot nobody.
I’m not illegal, I’m just…..an UNDOCUMENTED concealed weapon carrier right?
After all, the sherrif IMPLIED he would “look the other way”.
Kansas, the lying, many-named troll, does not seem to realize that he has destroyed his own credibility on this blog.
Capn:
And I understand what you’re saying, too. I just think you’re tilting at windmills here. Put your time and energy into something that has a return on investment. Ergo: debate, refute, or ignore.
But complaining, and asking the Eagle to do what it won’t (and I’d probably drop; I generally don’t participate in any online activities that require any sort of registration) solves no problems.
Further, the labeling (”wingnuts,” “moonbats” etc.), or bastardization of someone’s nic simply escalates the conflict. It accomplishes nothing, furthers no debate or understanding. It simply deepens the divide we all see, and in various degrees, wish were not there.
Try to remember this: people of good conscience will have legitimate disagreements. They will disagree, and deeply so. But that does not mean that those points of view are not legitimate, or legitimately held. Aside from our resident racists (you know who you are), I’ve seen very few positions here that could not be rationaly argued, even if I disagree with them; even if I think they are fundamentally wrong.
At the end of the day, we agree on more than we disagree on, and I may disagree with someone, deeply, and still like them as a person, socialize, enjoy their company, etc. The Republic will survive this, too.
Heck, I’d even invite you to the First Annual Lib/Con Shoot, and I strongly suspect you won’t shoot me!! A few (hundred) rounds, a few beers, some BBQ, and this political stuff doesn’t seem all that bitter. It doesn’t have to be.
Political disagreements need not be disagreeable. Yes, I’ve had this same conversation before, on all “sides.” But you, in particular, perceive yourself a leader on this blog. OK. Step up to the plate. Lead. Do the right thing.
Or you can continue to wallow.
And for the rest of you you who are reading this, to whom this applies (again, you know who you are), you’re responsible for your own writing. Don’t complain of the cheap shots and nastiness of the other “side” as you respond in kind.
Man up, folks.
“MARVIN BUSH EMPLOYEE’S MYSTERIOUS DEATH”
Yet another dirty link to the Bushes and 9/11
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/101003_bush_death.html
GMC–
Okay, I still get the feeling that you’re stoically bearing other people’s pain most bravely.
But what I want to mention is this: I’ve already been invited to the shoot out. I should be able to make it.
Looking forward to it.
Jeffrey Dean Cheshier, 41, was found dead of an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound by deputies in Garland County, AR. Mr. Cheshier had been a sexual assault suspect, arrested after pro-lifers gave police a photograph showing his vehicle at a notorious Granite City, IL abortion mill, where his underage victim reported committing an abortion. Cheshier had been free on bond, pending a trial to start the first week in September.The executive killer of the abortion mill, Sally Burgess, said she knew noth-ing – noth-ing – about juvenile rape victims in her abortion mill. The Granite City abortion mill is notorious for committing late-term abortions with no parental notification, and pro-lifers have noted other older men forcing juveniles into the mill.With no willing prosecutor, as in Kansas right now, there is no protection for the statutory rape victims, other than fetal tissue samples now required in case a post-abortion rape prosecution does commence, like when the DA and AG cannot possibly ignore the criminal complaints any longer.Work for the restoration of justice and the active protection of children from rape in Kansas, folks.
Just a point of clarification though–it’s not the “cheap shots and the nastiness” that I mind so much.
It’s the bald-faced lies. Claiming to be what one is not.
That’s what’s galling beyond endurance.
And I notice the far-fetched BS seems to only flow in one direction, Con against Lib.
You never hear somebody claiming to be a right-wing captain of industry before they “saw the light.”
It’s always the other way around, a black American who refuses to live on the Democratic “plantation” or some such nonsense.
Parkay–
Thanks for that post.
Just another example of why we need to keep hetrosexuals away from our kids . . .
Capn:
OK. So attack the substance of the post – what does it matter who, or what, the poster claims to be? We are all essentially what we choose to be here.
Or ignore it.
Sorry Capn, I don’t go by your rules.
You are not the Blog Moderator.
You don’t set any rules.
You don’t know me and never will.
Get over yourself.
Parkay,What will we do to protect boys and pre-puberty girls from statutory rape? How can statutory rape against them be prosecuted since there, of course, would be no fetal tissue samples?
Probably those rape kits they talk about brian?
Don’t they test DNA and blood type, fluid transference with those kits?
brian,Predators may often take their boy and pre-pubescent girls to abortion mills like Planned Parenthood to have them treated for STDs with which they have been infected, or to get the young girls contraceptives – just in case. Let’s elect an Attorney General and DAs who will enforce reporting requirements in abortion mills.
What is an abortion mill, in your definition? Are there abortion factories and outlets too?
Why would a rapist take their victim to get treated for STDs?
And what if the victims do not get STDs and are too young to get pregnant? Do we just abandon them?
I read with some interest the comments early today by this clown Ed Friedemann…I say read with some interest because I knew world class assholes like this existed, I just didn’t know they had names.
Friedemann you are nothing but a punk who talks big but would shit yourself if you ever saw what a Ma Duece can do to a human being.
And you want these poor people torn apart with a macine gun for wanting a better life??? You are one sick SOB.
I do feel your pain, Capn. You want to attack the poster to challenge credibility; in court, it’s called “impeaching the witness.” It’s almost irresistable.
I’ve been there.
But ya know, when you rely on impeaching the other side’s witnesses, it’s often a sign you’re losing the case.
parkay,
while your intentions may be “somewhat” good… your fundamental arguement is seriously mis-guided.
Not to mention WHERE in the world did you get the idea that Planned Parenthood is an abortion mill? I just love following your “circular reasoning”
GMC,
In this case, the “witness” is screaming, yelling, spitting at the judge, biting the guards, and insulting his own attorneys.
Don’t y’all have a way of dealing with that?
Since when do I scream, yell, spit at Phillip Brownlee Tom?
He is the *only* Judge of the WE Blog.
Your post reveals your too high opinion of yourself and other Lib Bloggers.
Parkay is a liar. Abortion providers in Kansas do indeed report everything they’re required to report. Not even Phill Kline charged Tiller with failure to report statutory rape, and Kline had access to _all_ of Tiller’s files.
If you’re saying you know more about what’s in Tiller’s files than Kline, tell us, Parkay, how you came by that knowledge.
Otherwise, shut the hell up about it.
Thanks.
PITIFULL, JUST PITIFULL.
No kidding, Tracy…no kidding.
Tom:
1) I’d argue there’s plenty of screaming, biting, etc. etc. to go around from all here.
2) No, this isn’t a court. This forum is different; there’s no judge to enforce rules of conduct, so we have to rely on the good sense of the participants. That happens when participants take the dialogue up, not sink to it’s lowest common denominator. That’s a choice that we, as individual posters, are entirely in control of.
Further, a stronger argument is to attack an opponents position, not to to attack the opponent. When we make it personal, in a sense we play into the hands of the opposition. We let them change the subject.
And BTW, Kansas, if you see this as a defense of you, don’t. You go to great lengths to stir the pot; and you’ve found folks who jump when you push their buttons. But you’ve hardly been the voice of reason here. I cringe when I read some of what you post.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/24/terror/main3094221.shtml#ccmm
But I thought they were “on the run” as the chimp told us? Or that we’d only be in danger of attack here if we elected a democrat like Darth Vader Cheney told us? Or that we’re fighting there so we don’t have to fight them here?
In other words both of them are lying pieces of sh*it!
The General has to be wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. He simply cannot know what he is talking about. President Bush, time and time and time again, has told us that the reason we are fighting Al Queda in Iraq is so that we do not fight them here in the USA. Who is wrong – the General? or President Bush?
Time now for another exciting episode of “How much crack has Rush Limbaugh been smoking now?”
From the July 16th show:
Let me say something here that some will no doubt consider controversial. It’s actually a question: “What is the great downside if we stay in Iraq and fight this enemy?” What’s the downside?
(snip)
I want all of you who are feeling upset about this – and I want all of you who may be in that 68% number that Newsweek produced – to ask yourselves a question. How is it affecting your life? Why is it affecting your life to the point that you want to stop it? Is it you just don’t want to hear about it anymore?
You don’t want to hear about the carnage, you don’t want to hear about the bombs, you don’t want to see the pictures of flaming cars? Then don’t turn on the news! But there’s something much larger going on here than our selfish feelings about what makes us uncomfortable, as we go about our day, when this incident, this war – aside from you military families – is not affecting any of us personally, unless we let it, unless we get totally bogged down in all of this, let it affect our mood and this and that and everything.
*****
Yeah, dude. If you don’t like hearing about the war, just turn off the news.
Or better yet, stick your fingers in your ears and go “lalalala . . . I can’t hear you I can’t hear you.”
Because as long as nobody in your family got their legs blown off, this is one helluva good war . . .
Yep, Comedian Rush Limbaugh
That’s basically what GMC says too though.
Doesn’t matter who’s president. Or running Congress.
As if we’d have sent 3600 American soldiers to meaningless slaughter under President Gore . . .
I guess Bush’s speeches today were all about how its right and good to stay the friggin course in Iraq, and how we have to wait till January, 2009, to gie them a chance to win the war, and all kinds of other previously failed speech tactics… I am surprised he didnt say we are going to hunt down the evil doers, and bring em to justice LOL
Rush should have added, “Hell, you aren’t even paying for it, it’s a freebie, your children and grand children will pick up the tab on this one.”
GMC,
You’re the one who started the “impeach the witness” courtroom metaphor. I’m not sure why I got the lecture for extending it in my comments.
“a stronger argument is to attack an opponents position, not to to attack the opponent…”
No kidding. However, you’ve clearly seen how the troll turns every possible discussion into a personal attack. You’ve seen how the troll immediately jumps into the middle of every mild disagreement, and turns it into a flame war.
Respectfully, GMC, I think your mild scold of the troll in your last post seriously understates the disruption caused by the person posting under those multiple nics.
Fake butter there hopes that all kids have nowhere to turn when being abused.
He hopes those kids all are forced to deliver their babies underground and not treat their STDs.
test
Correct, Tom.
I wonder if GMC could maintain that mild equinimity if one of us claimed to be a prosecuting attorney who “awakened one day to realize that we helping to criminalize the poor.
“I just couldn’t stand the lies anymore. I finally had to quit my hypocritical profession and do something good in the world.
“That’s why I became a Democrat and I now work for Habitat for Humanity building houses for the poor.
“I don’t make a third as much money as I used to, but at least I can look at myself in the mirror.”
I wonder how long Mr. Cool Rationality would put up with that BS aimed directly at what matters to him personally.
Not long, I’m guessing.
BUT we can all tolerate OTHER PEOPLE’S pain most heroically.
P-Mom — I agree with you!!
Anybody else find it amusing that the TROLL who keeps asking “what rights have we lost under the Patriot Act” and “what privacies have we given up under Bush” was the big holdout to granting permission to The Eagle to publicly comment on whether he is nic switching or not?
He has to hide what he’s doing on the WEBlog, but he doesn’t mind gov’t bureaucrats listening to his phone conversations.
Interesting, CapN… Interesting… One never knows who he might be posting for LOL
Seems to me that anybody who needs to change IP adresses, and use fake email addresses that often, might be into some heavy spamming, or phishing expeditions…
Blog got very quiet after it shut down earlier…
No kidding, Chas.
What slays me are these post-ers who just burst onto the scene with both guns blazing and then they fade from view and you never hear from them again.
LHG, Right Angle are two that come to mind.
Max, Eagle Beak and Half Full seem to have expressed all the thoughts in their fevered brains and now they’re plumb out . . .
Yeah, what was up with that shut-down?
Routine, or the editors firing a shot across the bow?
Capn,
I imagine it must be difficult to maintain all those false persona’s over any length of time. After a very short while, they all end up sounding like the same troll they are.
Right.
That’s my theory too, Tom.
Hard to keep all the lies straight.
That’s how we nailed him . . . actually, Steven D. got him.
Republican mentioned seeing Ian Santiago’s posts. Ian had been banned since before Republican said he started posting. So he clearly was lying when he said he had never posted before Feb of this year.
That was just one of many, but it was the most obvious one.
What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive. Walter Scott
Typekey/TypePad servers had a power outage and they are operating on another location until the power issues are resolved.
Capn is using up all his thoughts and time on me. What an obsessed person.
You just don’t really have a clue do you Capn?
(chortles)
And, away they go again!!!
We shall know when the Facist comes. He will be wrapped in the Flag, carrying a Cross.– para. Sinclair Lewis –
If you doubt the phrase, GOOGLE IT…