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Open thread 7/18
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted July 18, 2007 at 1:04 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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309 Comments
Watching the Senate’s debate tonight a few things have really stuck me. Stating that the surge is a change in tactics is like saying that if you keep driving off the cliff enough I bridge will appear! “The surge” is the same tactic that has been used since the beginning, the only difference is that instead of taking back a town. Then leaving it to fight those in another town. Thus leaving the very town you took back to be reoccupied, once you had driven the enemy from the next town. You do not defeat the enemy just help them decide to move on. Kind of like one of those puzzles where you have to move the pieces around.
Now I understand the idea, we actually broke Iraq not fixed it. So we should fix Iraq, but we are not nor should we be thinking if we do not do it for them they will not fix it on their own. The repeated assertion that if not for us then Al-Qaeda will still have a strangle hold on the Sunni region. This ignores and falsely takes credit for something that we were not doing. That in fact we had nothing to do with, the Sunnis simple had found an enemy for the moment that they hate worst then the U.S. The Sunnis are doing something that we, with all our power and bravado could not! If the Sunnis had not gotten tired of Al-Qaeda we still would not be able to move through the Am-bar province without every few miles losing another Humvee. Those pointing with pride at what has happen there is like they are taking credit for inventing the internet!
FINALLY, it took a Jr. Senator to point it out but NO, re-deployment is NOT “cut and run”. The term is a simplistic catch phrase for simplistic minds. For people that find it easier to not think it out, to left others come up with conclusions and answers. How many times do you need to walk into a wall before you finally try the door? Arguing that to move our troops out of the middle and to a place where they can still be effective. Yet not be a blocking factor to the progress, it is like they are arguing for us to stop progress!
There is so much concern that by re-deploying it will prove the enemy right! That we do not have the stomach for the fight. But by staying the course we ARE proving them right! The extremists said in the beginning before the invasion that the United States would try to run Iraq and would stay there. That the reasons stated for the invasion were nothing but a lie! Well the given reasons have been met and yet we fight to stay there, were the extremists right then? They point to Iraq and say “I told you they hate Moslems and this is still a crusade! Even the word that Bremmer choose to use to describe the aftermath of the invasion, “Occupation” in Arabic means to subjugate. Also, take a minute to see it through an average Iraqis eyes. The most powerful country in the world has came to your country uninvited, thousands of your fellow citizens have died in this invasion but the invaders have said they are there to make your lives better.But day after day your lives are not getting better and in some cases is worst. Now you know that there are those that are fighting the invaders and do not want the invader to do well. BUT the invader is the most powerful nation in the world. With untold resources and might, they should easily crash their enemies. Bring order and peace to your country. But they are not, the only answer must be that is it because the invader WANTS the disorder, the hardships as the extremists have said! Of course we do not see it that way so it is easy to dispel that idea. But we are not facing such hardships, so we don’t see it as the extremists are right. But then everyday that the Iraqis see an American military presents and not their own people doing the job. Who get the blame for the misery? If the French patrolled our streets and told the Americans where they could go and what they could do and you lives were worst off then before the French had “helped” to gain your freedom. What would you be thinking?
Morning Dog….
It had to happen. President Bush’s bungling of the war in Iraq has been the talk of the summer. On Capitol Hill, some of the more reliable Republicans are writing proposals to force Mr. Bush to change course. A showdown vote is looming in the Senate.
Enter, stage right, the fear of terrorism.
Yesterday, the director of national intelligence released a report with the politically helpful title of “The Terrorist Threat to the U.S. Homeland,” and Fran Townsend, the president’s homeland security adviser, held a news conference to trumpet its findings. The message, as always: Be very afraid. And don’t question the president.
Certainly, the report’s conclusions are disturbing. Nearly six years after 9/11, terrorism remains a huge threat. Al Qaeda has replaced leaders killed or captured by the United States, regrouped in its former home base in the tribal lands on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border and is trying to use affiliated terrorists in Iraq “to raise resources and to recruit and indoctrinate operatives.”
If the report is given an honest reading, it is a powerful rebuke to Mr. Bush’s approach to the war on terror. It vindicates those who say that the Iraq war is a distraction from the real fight against terrorism — a fight that is not going at all well.
The administration, however, seized on the report and, through bald political timing, tried to use it to dampen calls for an end to Mr. Bush’s catastrophic war. That required some particularly twisted logic. Ms. Townsend, for example, dismissed a reporter who asked whether the fact that Al Qaeda has regrouped in the area from which it planned the 9/11 attacks suggested that it was a mistake to divert American forces to Iraq. She said Al Qaeda headed by Osama bin Laden and the terrorists in Iraq that use the name Al Qaeda are the same.
In fact, we’ve seen no evidence of that, and none was in the intelligence report, at least the page and a half of conclusions released to the public.
Was there a link before the war between Osama bin Laden and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the terrorist leader in Iraq? Ms. Townsend refused to answer. “This is ground long covered,” she snapped.
Indeed it is. The answer is, “No.” In fact, Mr. Bush’s bungled invasion spawned a new terrorist army and gave it a home base. Now, the report said, those terrorists are the only ones affiliated with Al Qaeda that are “known to have expressed a desire to attack the” United States.
The White House denied that the report was timed to the Senate debate. But the administration controls the timing of such releases and the truth is that fear of terrorism is the only shard remaining of Mr. Bush’s justification for invading Iraq.
This administration has never hesitated to play on fear for political gain, starting with the first homeland security secretary, Tom Ridge, and his Popsicle-coded threat charts. It is a breathtakingly cynical ploy, but in the past it has worked to cow Democrats into silence, if not always submission, and herd Republicans back onto the party line.
That must not happen this time. By now, Congress surely can see through the president’s fear-mongering and show Mr. Bush the exit from Iraq that he refuses to find for himself.
We can never win a war of attrition, for the same reasons that were there in VietNam.
All this phony BS is a distraction from the real sources of our problem, that is, Saudi Arabia & Pakistan.
Oh, but they are our allies…..then why do we need enemies?
THE HEALTH AND WEALTH OF A NATION SHOULD BE JUDGED AT IT’S BASE….NOT AT IT’S APEX
Iraq is unwinnable, just as Viet Nam was unwinnable. And for much the same reasons. As it is, we got out of Viet Nam, and the country seems to be doing alright for itself. And so should we be getting out of Iraq. They have been at war with themselves for centuries; let them do what their going to do themselves, and without the loss of American lives.
A correction:”if you keep driving off the cliff enough “I” bridge will appear!”
should read:”if you keep driving off the cliff enough “a” bridge will appear!”sorry
THE HEALTH AND WEALTH OF A NATION SHOULD BE JUDGED AT IT’S BASE….NOT AT IT’S APEX
Posted by: TRACY | July 18, 2007 at 05:48 AM
I’d say the MEDIAN would be most accurate measure.
You really want to measure by the slowest, dumbest, and weakest point? There will always be lazy ones at the bottom – THEY ARE THE SOCIALISTS.
Socialist! Socialism! Karl Marx! Communist! Everyone run and hide!
Er, wait…unless it’s something I agree with. Then it’s not socialism.- Republicons.
Mom, if you were not such a Socialist, you wouldn’t feel that way.
Come on, fess-up, how much government money you take each month? (Count your cheese too)
“Iraq is unwinnable”, I will disagree but the answer has been stated more times in the last twenty some hours then I counted. “There is no military solution to Iraq”, both sides have said it yet one side still is pushing for a military solution. Iraq is a self-governing nation, it falls, it stumbles and yes it is so because of our interference. Not only are we responsible for the overthrow of their dictator but also for them not standing on their own.
It has been pointed out when trying to support our continued interference in Iraq, That in our own Democracy, that it took centuries to work out. That is true, but the point is that WE not the French that helped us. That we, not the other countries of the world that did it. Do we as a Democracy for over two centuries have experiences that would help them? Yes, but we can not continue to treat the Iraqis like they are our children and that is how we are doing. You can not suddenly say “You are now free to decide your own fate” then force them to follow your own direction. The benchmarks are like that, we will leave as you wish. BUT only once you have done this or that, these are not Americans! They have their own believes and concepts of what is right and wrong.
Until we are seen as an ally instead of an overseer, the Iraqis will buck and ball, And the entire region will see us as exactly what they fear. The first step in this is to stop being a military state to them. There maybe no “win-win” in this, it was that great of a mistake and wrong! Is the world better off without Saddam, in the immediate NO! The region is, but the world is not. Has the removal of Saddam and our part in it made the world worst off? Yes, it re-formed what the enemies are saying about us. It distracted us from those wanting to kill us. It violated the very core of what we, as the United States believed.
My wife does not understand why I take such an interest and has been so focused on this?I explained it this way “ What is happening will not just be an interest and a question to our grandkids. But to their grandkids, for hundreds of years the children will ask “why””.
Yes Iraq is winnable, but only once we stop thinking that we were entitled to invade and control another country that had not attacked us. Otherwise, once we start acting like this is America and not the last super power!
The USA is already a socialist nation.
50% of America’s Health Care is ran by the government.
50% of Americans don’t pay a dime to Federal taxes and actually net receivers of tax money.
Government is by far the largest employer in our society.
Check it out folks! The good guys did well!
U.S.: Top Iraqi Al Qaeda Leader Arrested
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289727,00.html
“BAGHDAD — The U.S. command said Wednesday the highest-ranking Iraqi in the leadership of Al Qaeda in Iraq has been arrested, adding that information from him indicates the group’s foreign-based leadership wields considerable influence over the Iraqi chapter.”
Joe is correct.lhg just seems to be some obnoxious person seeking to make others unhappy.
Glad to see you back TRACY.
What are we doing in Iraq? Fighting a war on terror? You can not fight a tactic. That is absurd. Fighting al-qaeda? They weren’t there before we showed up, now they are. They are stronger than before 9-11.
We toppled a dictator. One that was mean and nasty. Yippee for us. Whoops, we put him in power. Our bad. Now there is a civil war co-sponsored mainly by the Saudis. But the NeoCons are jumping up and down about Iran. Huh, go figure.
Iraq has problems because of artificial borders. Look across the MidEast and Africa. All the places that Britton and the UN placed artificial borders have problems. Anyone connecting the dots here? Meddling with the Iranian leadership for the past 50 years?
When did we become a pre-emptive strike nation?
Why don’t we go back to our roots? Secure our borders and get our fingers out of everyone else’s pie. Take care of the US and let the world take care of itself.
“As it is, we got out of Viet Nam, and the country seems to be doing alright for itself.”
What about the million or so peoole that died in the genocide afterward? Vietnam today has a totally currupt government and the people live in poverty, have no opportunties and no access to health care and other basic needs unless they’re a worker or in the military. It’s not all sunshine and roses there.I want out of this Iraq mess as much as anybody, but if we leave now the results WILL be devastating, just like it was for the South Vietnamese. There’s no way around that.
Good points Mary. I guess that is why we shouldnt have engaged in “dick and george’s excellent adventure” in iraq. I fear the same rooftop evacuations sooner or later. With the attendant results.
But of course, the bushies say this isnt AT ALL like Viet Nam…
“What about the million or so people that died in the genocide afterward?”Posted by: Mary Caruso | July 18, 2007 at 08:30 AM
Mary, I think you’ve confused Vietnam with Cambodia.
You know what? What about them? We toppled their dictator. Now they want a civil war. On top of that al-qaeda is in their country now. Their government is impotent. Their police and military are impotent. They have no desire to end the fighting.
Yeah we screwed up by going in. Our presence there is making things WORSE. Until we pull out, let them get tired of blowing each other up and kicking al-qaeda back out of their country, we are just delaying the inevitable, causing more death and chaos, and generally pissing the rest of the world off.
But Cambodia was in result of us leaving Vietnam prematurely.
I agree with that solly. I’m for leaving NOW. Staying there is only going to make a bad situation worse. But I also think as a matter of integrity, the U.S. should admit what we have done there. No matter how bloody and painful the results.
Denial isnt working with the rest of the world. Or with the majority of Americans.
The bushies remind me of kids playing peek-a-boo. They think if they cover they eyes you cant see them…
…of course, though, being the decider means you never have to say you’re sorry. Or admit responsibility. Ditto with dead eye dick. Hell, his VICTIM apologized to him.
I think that about says it all for this cabal!
And WTF was with the senate sleep over last night?
Perhaps if both parties spent more time dealing with reality and less time on stunts like this, this nation could actually make progress.
But as long as BOTH parties support the war, it will go on. Perpetual war. The MIC equivalent of a wet dream.
If we pulled out of every damn muslim country across the globe, what would the radicals have to be pissed at us about? Yeah, we screwed things up in Iraq. Saudi and Iran will fight it out inside Iraq. We should secure our borders, advance our HUMINT inside those organizations, and duck our head for a few years.
When we get our fingers out of everyone else’s pie, then why would anyone still be pissed at us?
Secure our borders. Bring our troops home. Not just the ones in the MidEast, but ALL of them. Bring them all home to protect us here. Take away our global foot print and take care of problems at home.
911 is temporarily out of service, please contact the UN. Thank you and have a pleasant genocide.
“The bushies remind me of kids playing peek-a-boo. They think if they cover they eyes you cant see them…”
If we get out without leaving the Iraqi government able to defend itself and its citizens, we will be closing our eyes and ears to drown out the sight and sounds of genocide.
Take the money we would have spent supporting troops outside our borders. Take the money spent on the Iraq/Afghan war. Put it in an account and after Iraq is done blowing itself up, give them that money to help rebuild.
Give them that money. Period. No bidless contracts to corrupt companies. No Americans over there unless by their choice. Give them the damn money to spend how they choose. If they choose not to rebuild, so be it. We paid our debt.
After we are done with that pay out, start paying China off. Buy America back from everyone we were sold out to.
We need to get back to our roots people. We need to build America back to who she was. Quit selling our jobs and technology to the lowest bidder. Quit selling America out for the quick buck.
“we will be closing our eyes and ears to drown out the sight and sounds of genocide.”
You forgot the rest of that statement outie. It needs “which we created” at the end.
Maybe if we get the hell out of the way, OTHER nations can come in and prevent or minimize the genocide? OTHER nations (you know the ones who didnt join bush’s coalition of the “willing”) could come in and help rebuild what we helped destroy?
Why would the world community help when we are STILL stomping around in there like a bull in the china shop. You cant begin clean up until the bull stops breaking stuff and leaves.
And I still hear the sound of china being smashed…
We’ve proven we cant lead or follow. I think the best thing for the US to do is get the hell out of the way.
Good post, Sol.
I agree with that.
Hey, Tracy?
How many more days is America Held Hostage?
Outlander
What about the genocide going on right now? Shiites killing Sunni, Sunni killing Kurds. Everyone killing Americans.
Seems to me us being there isn’t even slowing down the genocide. I would venture to say our presence is only intensifying death and chaos over there.
The democrats in congress are the goddamnedest hostages I’ve ever seen. Talk about STOCKHOLM …
That’s true sol, but it is what it is. We have to go forward with solution best for the Iraqi people. Fortunately a stable Iraq is also what is best for America. We broke it, now we gotta fix it.
“We broke it, now we gotta fix it.”
I really dont dispute that outie. Sadly though, we have demonstrated our complete ineptitude in “fixing it”.
Hell, now not only can we not fix it, we dont even seem to be able to HIRE a competent plumber.
That’s why I say we need to get out, admit our errors, and let the world community take over.
Christ, they cant do any WORSE than we have…
As always, of course, we have no one to blame but ourselves. We sent ol’ rubber stamp, bush’s own senator roberts, and Mr. I never show up for work brownback. Other states sent other nut cases.
And the democrats like boyda have shown themselves to be nothing but enablers. I’m getting really sick of the “but we dont have the votes” meme. And the “republicans block everything” meme.
They may be true. But they are not empowering statements that sound like they are made by whiney rich kids making exuses for their “f” in world history and world geography.
A pox on both their houses.
I agree with the person yesterday who said “NO INCUMBENTS”! But then, that would require voters to shoulder responsibility. Like that will ever happen…
Bush said we would leave when the Iraqi’s wanted us to leave… Wasnt it just last week that the Iraqi Prime Minister said they could handle the country themselves??
I guess Bush even lies to the Iraqi’s… Ya know, the more I watch that man, the more I think he acts like a few “dry drunks” I have known…
If the dems dont have the votes in congress to rein in this lawless administration, then they need to bring up things and let the repukes block them. Over and over and over until the public gets it.
Let the repukes filibuster and then trot out all their words for the last 12 years about how filibuster was unacceptable. Propose some real solutions and let the chips fall where they may.
The democrat games in congress are getting to be too clever by half. Fiddling while iraq burns seems to be a bipartisan issue they DO agree upon.
“[un]Fortunately a stable Iraq is also what is best for America. We broke it, now we gotta fix it.”
The problem is a stable Iraq is OUR goal, not the Iraqi government’s goal. Hence, we’re screwed until it becomes their goal, which will happen some time after the current civil war is settled.
Yeah, Chas., GWB should have taken al Maliki up on the offer before he changed it the next day. Someone must have whispered in al Maliki’s ear that if the U.S. did leave, it would be a short time before he would be seeing the particular version of the afterlife reserved for him.
We’ve had 4 years outie and no real progress to show for it. It seems to be getting worse. Now al-qaeda is there and partially being backed by the Iraqis? Holly crap man. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
What plays a critical role in my mind outie is the utter disdain of the Iraqis to police themselves. If their government would step up and take some control. If their military and police would show some testicular fortitude and police their own people, then MAYBE what we are doing there is worth it.
When the Iraqis won’t even stand up for the Iraqis… you have to ask yourself, is this situation salvageable.
There were reports of the military/police on patrols with US forces during the day, then at night planting IEDs.
At some point outie, you have to see these people are not ready to be rescued. They have hundreds of years of fight that has been suppressed. Until they unleash that fight, they will not be civil. I don’t see any reason to lose American lives over their F’ed up mentality.
Can you rescue the unwilling from themselves?
“Can you rescue the unwilling from themselves?”
I think the US voters need to ask themselves that question as well. WHEN will we vote for competent people who are honest and dont pander to big money?
When will we elect candidates based upon their positions on the issues, and not based on their tv career, their hairstyle, their spouse, or their way with sound bites?
As they say in Texas, we need to sweep our own porch before we comment on the condition of anyone else’s porch.
Sorry, I know I am ranting in pieces here, but America is SO FAR out of integrity with who we say we are and the principles we supposedly use to guide our actions, that we really wont be much help in the world until we settle that lack of integrity.
Either we should admit who we really are as a nation, or we need to bring our actions in line with who we say we are.
‘Cause right now, who we say we are and what we do, just plain dont match. And there can be no power without integrity.
“Can you rescue the unwilling from themselves?”
This simple question captures the entire problem quite nicely.
Prison time seems to be refreshing disgraced California politician Randy Cunningham.
He’s rolling over on his friends Wilkes and Konstinatis pretty heavily.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/cunningham/20070717-2053-bn17dukebribe.html
WASHINGTON – In two days of prison interviews with federal agents this year, disgraced former Rep. Randy “Duke” Cunningham described a level of corruption on his part more extensive than previously known and dealt a potentially devastating blow to the defense being waged by one of the defense contractors alleged to have bribed him.
Yeah capn. That’s why scooter shoulda spent just a LITTLE time in an orange jumpsuit.
I guess we’ll never know how “refreshed” HIS memory could have been.
VT you really think so, or are you running low on caffeine this morning??
Capn America,Check your e-mail.
Also, it looks like Harriet Mieres is still refusing to appear for a Congressional subpeona.
See, you don’t have to obey the law if you work for Mussolini Bush.
You are so right Frmgrl…America is nothing like we say we are, and nothing is going to change until we hold ourselves more accountable for living up to the principles we claim we value.
This is an excellent thread this morning. It can happen.
“Can you rescue the unwilling from themselves?”I think the US voters need to ask themselves that question as well. WHEN will we vote for competent people who are honest and dont pander to big money?When will we elect candidates based upon their positions on the issues, and not based on their tv career, their hairstyle, their spouse, or their way with sound bites?As they say in Texas, we need to sweep our own porch before we comment on the condition of anyone else’s porch.Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | July 18, 2007 at 09:20 AM
RON PAUL 2008 !!!
Sorry, I know I am ranting in pieces here, but America is SO FAR out of integrity with who we say we are and the principles we supposedly use to guide our actions, that we really wont be much help in the world until we settle that lack of integrity.Either we should admit who we really are as a nation, or we need to bring our actions in line with who we say we are.’Cause right now, who we say we are and what we do, just plain dont match. And there can be no power without integrity.Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | July 18, 2007 at 09:23 AM
RON PAUL 2008
Dang Farmie, you could be a campaign poster for Ron Paul
heheheh Solly. I could say the same for DENNIS KUCINICH!!!
Thanks Mary. I really believe that basic lack of integrity is the root of the problem.
Ron Paul… I don’t know that I agree with everything he stands for, but he starts in the right place as far as I am concerned.
His chances of being a real contender are so poor, the guy can afford to tell the truth. It is very sad that the preceding is what it takes to tell the truth.
Steven, agreed. Great threads happen when we dont have to keep stopping for ankle biters and taking time to hand out cookies to those who need a nappie.
Do you think they did ban the troll since he was whining about it yesterday? If so, good on them. If not, then I guess he is still sleeping it off this morning.
In any event, the troll free atmosphere really is NICE!
Done, XXX.
Gotta start my busy day right now, but let me think about this.
Looks good so far, doesn’t it.
Actually, Mary, if you read the reports on Viet Nam, you will find they are doing quite well. For a communist country, they are starting to believe the value of the global economy, and are supporting it.
Whether or not Iraq could follow suit is in question, but they shopuld be allowed to attempt it without our interference. Whether or not we stay or leave, there will still be thousands of deaths via secterian violance. We cannot stop that; the country (Iraq) is the only one who can.
“His chances of being a real contender are so poor, the guy can afford to tell the truth. It is very sad that the preceding is what it takes to tell the truth.”
Aint it the truth, Steven. That’s why I put the blame SQUARELY on the shoulders of the voters. If we are stupid enough to fall for pepsodent teeth and carefully groomed soundbites…
…then we truely have the government we deserve. I just dont believe it’s really the government we want.
But ya know, there are those things called elections every two years or so. Amazing what can happen if voters pay attention and vote for competency, and not the appearance of competency and geniality.
I mean, THIS preznit is the guy everyone wanted to have a beer with! How’s THAT working for us voters?
Frm grl
I’ve been saying / thinking that for decades. The reality seems the politicians really don’t want an intelligent / educated electorate or many of our public schools wouldn’t be in as sad a shape as they are.
I still believe that our elected officials should take the same oath / pledge as our military takes in their academies and is / should be part of every soldierscharacter:
“I will not lie, cheat or steal, nor tolerate those that do.”
oh…… and make them live by it …
The voters today do far too little research. They go by TV and radio ads. It is a damn shame.
The gubernatorial election in Michigan is a fine example. Granholm has driven this state into the ground. DeVoss is a proven business man. What we needed was a business leader to get the state back on its feet. Some well placed mudslinging ads threw the election.
Now we have the lowest credit rating of any state in the union. We are losing population day after day. 48,000 jobs will go unfilled because of a lack of skilled or educated workers – they have all left for other states.
There should be like a mandatory class before you vote. Dissect each candidate and remove the media hoopla.
Hi Sol — I dont know about mandatory voter classes, but I do know that there are numerous civic groups, and even some church groups, who run voter education programs…
And I dont mean ones who tell you WHO to vote for… I mean classes that examine all the issues, and show where every candidate stands…
If you are in Michigan, you might check some local non-profit groups, and see what is going on there… you might check this web site, and when you get it, find Michigan’s button, and check it that way: http://www.ucc.org
Thanx Chas, I do my own research. My point was that there are too many voters that don’t.
There is no “terrorist” threat, just the word to frighten Americans and al-Qaida is a battle cry for Arabs in defense of Arab and Persian Homeland.
Those are scare-tactics used by Bushco to cover the attempt of Zionists to become a superpower, dominating even the United States where they have a established beachhead.
Zionists are the power which hide behind religious Jews and only present themselves through propaganda.
There is the enemy in a nutshell.
Yes, Sol, and I would agree with that… I always try to make very sure that our church groups dont cross lines, and attempt to endorse any particular candidate at those kind of voter information classes…
No, Ed, there is a view of the world coming from a nutshell.
Morning Ed. I see you and the rest of the traitors have been busy this morning. Bash away, and get the spittle flying over your keyboard. Does it automatically translate the Arabic characters into English?
Kaeb Elgae = Eagle Beak = republikhan
Anyone notice the conversations khan had with his many nics. this guy is unstable.
GB,
Ok, you’ve seen many reasons to pull out of Iraq. why don’t you give a few to stay – i.e. back your stuff up.
it’s baaaaaaack
Shhhhhh KFG… be vewy qwiet, and maybe it will go away…
Has anybody else noticed how much more difficult it is now for Mr. Bush to stay focused on what he is attempting to say, than it was for him only 7 years ago??
Anybody think he might have a few hidden(from us) health problems??
What reasons to leave? The fact that the Democrats in congress hate this country? The fact that we no longer have the will to defend our country’s foreign policy?
Kissinger admitted that the cowardice of the American people was a limiting factor in his negotiations with the Vietnamese.
Like other dominant civilizations we’ve become fat, lazy and spoiled. The barbarians have finally figured that out and we’re on our way down. Your children will live in a third world country.
Here is a question –
When politicians are interviewed and asked a direct question, why is it they are allowed to skate around it? They bob and weave and the interviewer is just dazzled by the bright lights and moves on.
Why don’t interviewers press the issue? They had a lady from the… crap, can’t even remember the name of the gov’t office now that we have so many. Anyway, she is a top tier terror analyst. She was asked 3 times was al-qaeda in Iraq before we went to war. Now everyone pretty much knows the answer to that one. She was still allowed to skate.
Has America become so dumbed down as to not see this? And if others see this, why do we still allow it to happen?
yeah lets pull out of Iraq.. and let the rest of the world take care of Iraq..
They have done so well taking care of Darfur and other parts of the world..
Sol, most of the time it is because the “reporters” are poorly trained, and perhaps not even journalists at all, rather nice face candy for cameras…
Other reasons would be that they didnt plan out their questions, to have anywhere else to go except for one point… and if that doesnt happen, they dont have a clue…
“Has America become so dumbed down as to not see this?”
Yes. Either that, or we are smart enough to see it and lazy enough not to care.
“And if others see this, why do we still allow it to happen?”
Most folks dont look beyond their favorite brand of tv channels to get their “information”. And as for print media? Media consolidation has pretty much eliminated minority or dissenting opinions.
I dont have enough money to start my own newspaper. Do you?
I dont either KFG, but SOMEtimes, I sure wish I did… I think it could actually be very exciting…
“The fact that the Democrats in congress hate this country?”Bullshit party line rhetoric. You lose. When will NeoCons realize that the ‘Un-American’ – ‘Hates America’ meme has totally lost its bite. Ma be YEARS for GB.
Hey GB, wake up and realize there no longer is a conservative party in America. NeoCons have taken over.
“The fact that we no longer have the will to defend our country’s foreign policy?”And just how flawed does that foreign policy have to be before you stop saluting it GB. Are you also on the team that says ‘Nuke Iraq Today?’ Is that the foreign policy you so ravenously defend?
Way to go GB, way to go
“Like other dominant civilizations we’ve become fat, lazy and spoiled.”Agreed. But that has absolutely NOTHING to do with Iraq.
“The barbarians have finally figured that out and we’re on our way down.”Nope. They’ve figured out that to date, there is no defense nor offense that is effective against urban guerrilla warfare.The Vietnamese did the same thing to us in the jungles and to a lesser degree in the towns.
“Your children will live in a third world country.”Yes they will. As our government continues to sell out this country to finance this war. And companies continue to outsource. And our country continues to maintain porous borders.
That the best you can do GB? Mindless party line rhetoric?
heheheh. Well chas, having been in the newspaper biz as a youngster outa college, I can tell you, it’s exciting in the same way a heart attack is exciting.
Gets the blood pumping, but it hurts like hell and you always wonder if you are gonna survive…
GB
I critique from you is verification.
Thanks
I dont have enough money to start my own newspaper. Do you?Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | July 18, 2007 at 10:37 AM
No I don’t, but I did have enough sense to ‘Use The Google’ and meter what I read against other sites. The internet is becoming the great equalizer. Too bad more people don’t use it and use it correctly.
I can believe that, what with the numerous small town weekly papers I have worked with over the years… Very tiring work…
*** Nuke IRAN TODAY ****
Now where did that come from???
Correcting a typo
“The internet is becoming the great equalizer. Too bad more people don’t use it and use it correctly.”
I agree. But I dont have any trouble discerning truth from fiction like some folks do. If you ONLY read freeperville or DU, you dont get the whole picture either. I hate to use the “T” word, but some triangulation among news sources is not a bad thing.
Sorry for being so cynical, but too many folks just read or look on the internet for what agrees with the opinion they formed BEFORE they did any research.
And they discard anything else that doesnt agree with their world view. And jingos clearly count more than facts. Just read the “uber-patriots” here…
Hell, Sol, the Goths figured that out against the Romans! (Inspired by the use of the term “barbarians” by GB).
GB is a Plant.
VT,
And here we are, getting dragged into the same mess. Learning disability?
GB is an enemy Plant.
Ok Sol… if you say so… LOL
Are we still in the same dimension?? Seems like something just changed here…
Pull our troops out of Afghanistan. Pull our troops out of Iraq. Pull our troops off of any non-American soil. Get them back here and rested. Put the rest on the borders. Apologize to the world and heal from within.
We need to pull out of the UN and WTO. We can negotiate for ourselves. We owe Great Britton a debt for standing by our side. The rest of them? Best of luck to you.
Get back to what made this country great. We don’t’ need to influence the world. We don’t need to defend the world. We need to take care of America.
CNN
U.S.: Senior al Qaeda in Iraq leader held
{ How many fingernails did it take for this poor guy to admit that? }
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/07/18/iraq.capture/index.html
SolDevVB
You are right.
{ Where did that come from? }
Just for chas…..
Are you also on the team that says ‘Nuke Iraq Today?’ Is that the foreign policy you so ravenously defend?Way to go GB, way to goPosted by: SolDevVB | July 18, 2007 at 10:41 AM
*** Nuke IRAN TODAY ****Posted by: SolDevVB | July 18, 2007 at 10:45 AM
Not me SOL… I thought I smelled a Nic Switch in here…
Chas, What’s happening?
Not sure Ed… maybe nothing… I just thought VT’s posts looked a little “out of kilter” this morning… but, maybe not…
Well, so much for now… I have errands to run, and some things to do before the weekend… See you all later on!!
Shocking. The Dem’s slumber party event amounted to another failure and defeat. Guess we’ll have to wait to see how they waive their white flag for later.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289766,00.html
Repukes can block it with their minority but they cannot hide the fact that a majority voted to stop Bush’s fiasco.
SO, if Dems would have won, then Dem’s victory. But since Dems lost, Republican’s fault. Got it.
Right, Ben
The American people saw who voted which way.
If the Republicans reflect what the American people want, they’ll be re-elected.
If not, it’s 2006 all over again.
Bring it on.
As for Kissinger calling the American public “cowards,” hmmm . . . why did our country crush his country like a bug in WW2?
Flipping kraut.
SOB–
That’s right. Dems barely have a majority in Congress. They needed 60 votes to stop a filibuster.
Even with 4 Republican backers, they didn’t have it.
But I’m still glad they did it.
They need to show America that they are on the side of the majority in this country.
Bin Laden may not be leading any parades, but it is evident he’s still in control and directing Al-Quida.US: Top al-Qaida in Iraq figure captured By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer1 hour, 28 minutes ago
BAGHDAD – The highest-ranking Iraqi leader of al-Qaida in Iraq has been arrested and told interrogators that Osama bin Laden’s inner circle wields considerable influence over the Iraqi group, the U.S. command said Wednesday.
ADVERTISEMENTKhaled Abdul-Fattah Dawoud Mahmoud al-Mashhadani, who was captured in Mosul on July 4, carried messages from bin Laden, and his deputy Ayman al-Zawahri, to the Egyptian-born head of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Ayub al-Masri, said Brig. Gen. Kevin Bergner, a military spokesman.
“Communication between the senior al-Qaida leadership and al-Masri frequently went through al-Mashhadani,” Bergner said. “There is a clear connection between al-Qaida in Iraq and al-Qaida senior leadership outside Iraq.”
The relationship between the two groups has been the subject of debate, with some private analysts believing the foreign-based leadership plays a minor role in day-to-day operations.
Some have suggested that linking al-Qaida in Iraq to bin Laden is simply an attempt to justify the Iraq war as an extension of the global conflict that began with the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
But the U.S. military has insisted that there are links between the local al-Qaida group and the bin Laden clique and has released captured letters from time to time, suggesting the foreign-based leaders provide at least broad direction.
Bergner said al-Mashhadani had told interrogators that al-Qaida leaders outside the country “continue to provide directions, they continue to provide a focus for operations, they continue to flow foreign fighters into Iraq.”
Pointing to the foreign influence in al-Qaida undermines support for the organization among nationalistically minded Iraqis, including some in insurgent groups that have broken with al-Qaida.
“[un]Fortunately a stable Iraq is also what is best for America. We broke it, now we gotta fix it.”
The problem is a stable Iraq is OUR goal, not the Iraqi government’s goal. Hence, we’re screwed until it becomes their goal, which will happen some time after the current civil war is settled.Posted by: Steven Davis | July 18, 2007 at 09:13 AM
Well said. That’s exactly the problem we face in Iraq.
The dems are tired of the American people blaming them because progress can’t get done because of the obstruction of the Republicans.
THIS is why they did this. They’re having to show the American people over and over again before they UNDERSTAND that the reason we’re still in Iraq is because of the Repubicans and the republicans alone.
Uh oh, looks like Hillary snubbed the gay-vote. Can’t blame her really.
http://www.republicangazette.com/republicangazette.html
The YouTube-ification of politics: Candidates losing control
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/18/youtube.effect/index.html
You know whats funny about this? Ron Paul has more daily hits and searches than any other candidate. He is so wildly popular on YouTube that Google invited him out. He toured the facility and gave a couple of speeches. Ron Paul, no other candidate.
Now here is a story about how YouTube is being used and he is casually left out.
My view? Ron Paul will not be bought or owned by anyone. That scares both sides. They pass on to the readers/supporters that he is a non issue. Y’all believe him.
Challenge – go out to YouTube and watch a few of his videos. Listen to his message. Then go and look at his voting record. He votes what he says. He tells the truth.
? Then tell me the name of a better candidate and why. Does their voting record reflect their rhetoric? Do they answer direct questions directly?
How can peace be established in Iraq?
1. Give Iraqis an 70% share of oil in currently developed fields, and the US and Great Britain a 30% share. (The US and British 30% share-subsplit should be based on how many dollars each nation spent in fighting the war.)Do this until 2027. Then give Iraqis 100% ownership.
2. Iraq contractually agrees to sell 40% of its own share of oil to Anglo-American companies at 90% of current market price, or $120 bbl, whichever is less, until 2027.
3. New field production will be split 50% for Iraqis 50% for Anglo-Americans for 20 years from the time each new field comes online, with Iraqis and Anglo-Americans each paying one-half of development costs. After the expiration date, the oil is split 75%/25% in perpetuity.
4. Under preceding terms, Iraq agrees to pump a minimum of 10 million bbl/ day from current fields, or if it decides to pump less, to guarantee that Anglo-Americans get 2.5 million bbl /day.
5. For new fields, Iraq agrees to annually pump 2.5% of initial estimated recoverable oil (40 year extraction life) for 20 years, or if Iraq decides to pump less, to guarantee Anglo-Americans 1.25%.
6. Great Britain and the United States promise to give Iraq $20 billion in combined annual aid, for 10 years, for the specific purposes of building and maintaining roads, electricity, water and sewage services, healthcare and educational facilities. The donor nations will select the contractors for construction projects, who will guarantee to employ Iraqis for all positions for which Iraqi candidates can demostrate reasonable employment qualification.
7. Great Britain and the United States will give Iraq$1 billion annually for 10 years, for university education development and operations.
8. Great Britain and the United States will give Iraq $10 billion annually for 10 years, for purposes determined by the people of Iraq. (This is $400 per capita, typically $3000-4000 per nuclear family.)
This will greatly accelerate the pacification of Iraq. The beneficiaries there will quickly eliminate the terrorists, because it will be in their overwhelming interest to do so.
If Congress gets on this, it will inspire the American people to believe that we are in Iraq to help Iraqis, not to steal their oil, and Congress’ approval rating will skyrocket.
Lots of good points about Iraq, Afghanistan, terrorism, etc — but the below was interesting, and likely.
‘Why Bush Is A Loser’http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/17/AR2007071701456.html“If one wants to peer into the future, it could well be that Bush will be judged a failure more for his inaction on global warming than for his action in Iraq.”—–
And future action on global warming will probably sharply cut demand for oil, making the past and present M-E oil wars a total waste of lives and money.
If you torture people enough, they will say anything you want them to say.
Number 2 al-Qaida…. you got it.
Some, all you have to do is to pay them a large some of money.
Does that make “al-Qaida” real?
Bushco wants al-Qaida tobe “real.”
If Bushco doesn’t have “al-Qaida” at this point, they have nothing.
MPS, that has merit. Won’t happen, IMHO, but still is meritorious.
RUSH said last hour: Take that # 2 Al-Quaeda guy they captured… waterboard him till he tells us what we want to know, and if there is anything left of him after that, send him to Gitmo for a vacation…
That man gets SICKER by the HOUR!
Remarks of
Commandant of the Marine Corps, General James T. Conway
“George P. Shultz Lecture Series”
Marines’ Memorial Association and World Affairs Council
San Francisco, CA
Wednesday, July 10, 2007
Folks, it’s great to be with you tonight in America ’s most cosmopolitan city. I intend to offer a few remarks, and then I certainly look forward to your questions.
I sat this week and listened to a United States Senator who criticized the U.S. effort in Iraq as being involved in an Iraqi civil war while ignoring the real fight against terrorism that was taking place in Afghanistan .
With due respect to the senator, I would offer that he is wrong on two counts. The fact is that there is no civil war taking place in Iraq by any reasonable metric. There is certainly sectarian strife, but even that is on the declining scale over the past six months. Ironically, this strife was brought about and inflamed by the very terrorists some claim do not exist in Iraq . The sectarian strife is a tactic aimed at creating chaos with little risk to the instigator while it ties down coalition forces.
Other misnomers abound. Many in our country routinely characterize what is taking place in the Gulf as the “War with Iraq .” I would ask you to think of it differently. I believe we are seeing the first real battles against the field forces of terrorism, both in Afghanistan and Iraq , in what will be a generational struggle. Instead of the “War with Iraq ,” it is more correctly said, the “ Battle in Iraq ” or the “ Battle in Afghanistan .” Words and phrases are important in terms of how we understand critical decisions that this Nation will face and how we frame our thinking as we go about dealing with them.
Our Nation’s forces have been in Iraq over four years now. No doubt that mistakes have been made and opportunities lost, but progress continues at an incremental pace — slower progress than our countrymen might like — but generally apace of historical norms — nine to eleven years that we see when we study successful counterinsurgencies. We have over 170,000 U.S. troops in Iraq , roughly 25,000 of them Marines, and another 11,000-plus coalition troops. Marines are almost exclusively located in the Al Anbar Province, west of Baghdad , until recently termed “the deadly” or the “volatile” Al Anbar.
The region is still a dangerous place, make no doubt – but the Marines and soldiers assigned to the Marine Expeditionary Force have made tremendous progress over the past nine months. At one point, Baghdad believed that the province would be the absolute last to achieve an acceptable level of stability and security. Today, conditions in the province have become the model for what’s happening in the rest of the country.
The reason for the progress is that during October of ‘06, the leading Sunni sheik’s in the province decided that U.S. forces were less an enemy to them than the al Qaeda. They finally had their fill of the murder and intimidation campaigns the al Qaeda was subjecting them to, and suddenly, themes the Marines had held fast to for over two-and-a-half years began to resonate. As was their culture, the tribal leaders determined that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend,” and thus began a partnership that has over the intervening months all but cleared the hard-core terrorists from the region.
The metrics show the results. Attacks are down 60 percent. Cache discoveries are up 400 percent because tips from the local population are up 150 percent. Sunni tribes now offer more of their young men each month for the Iraqi Security Forces than the coalition can train. And, yes, casualties are down almost 14 percent for U.S. troops. A normalcy has returned to the province, not seen in over three years, and the people like it.
Al Qaeda can be expected to counterattack, but they have lost the support of the populace, and when that happens, an insurgency cannot survive. Economic progress must follow, however, for us to fully capitalize on the security gains, and that also is happening. Marketplaces in all of the major cities are opened and a decentralized economy flourishes. International businesses have been watching the security situation closely in Al Anbar, and many now feel the time is right for those willing to accept some risk, but perhaps realize significant gains to act.
The final leg of the stool is the political link. At the national level, the political patchwork is problematic, and the Maliki government has been repeatedly cautioned that it must make better use of the time coalition forces have bought them. In the Al Anbar Province, thins are slightly more encouraging. Prime Minister Maliki has met in Ramadi the lead sheiks and is scheduled to meet with them again in al Qa’im this summer. The sheiks realize that in order for the country to stay together, there must be reconciliation with the Kurds and the Shi’as at the national level.
Reconciliation conferences are taking place amongst tribal leadership, the clergy, and elected officials. Recently, just such a conference was attacked by a suicide bomber. While the attack may make subsequent efforts more difficult, it also shows the participants how much the al Qaeda fear the success of these efforts.
As one might expect, the morale of the Marines and Sailors who are living the successes in the West is off the page. Although our deployment tempo is intense – Marines are normally deployed for seven months and are at home for seven months — or in some cases less — the absolute best morale that our Corps has is found in units getting ready to go to Iraq or that are already there.
I’ll give you a couple of examples. The Second Battalion, Fifth Marines was in Ramadi on their last deployment and lost 15 Marines killed and another 150-plus wounded. Scheduled to return to Ramadi again, the battalion commander approached his combat veterans who were nearing their end-of-active service that would occur either before or during the deployment.
He expressed concern that his younger Marines who were not combat experienced would miss their leadership and their know-how. He asked them to consider staying aboard through the next rotation. Ladies and gentlemen, without a penny of incentive pay, 200 Marines — most of them NCOs — stepped forward to deploy again with that battalion.
[Applause]
In another instance that happened just last week, Corporal Garret Hawkins had his right leg shattered in a IED blast northwest of Karma. Before he was medevaced out by helicopter, he told his First Sergeant that he first needed to go back to the base. Once at the treatment station, he announced he wanted to reenlist before he was evacuated. His platoon commander read the oath, the corporal raised his right hand as he laid on the stretcher, and his fellow Marines shook their heads in amazement and could only say, “That’s motivating as hell.”
[Applause]
Another reason that Marines and Sailors feel good about their mission and themselves in Iraq and Afghanistan is that they are certain that they are defending this Nation against terrorism. They feel that the reason the country has not been attacked since 9/11 is because they are killing the same terrorists in both places that might otherwise be attempting to find their way to the U.S. Most would agree that a direct attack on terrorism was not the initial reason for going into Iraq in 2003, but it took a little less than three weeks for us to see religious extremists there.
On the march to Baghdad , my division commander, then Major General Jim Mattis outside of a little town called Azzizah radioed back that he had just run into a beehive. He said that there were about 300 fighters in the area who were not retreating, and to the contrary, they were dying in place on their guns. These people were fanatics. The last squad was cut down charging a 50-caliber machine gun on a tank. When we searched the bodies, we found that they were not Iraqis — but were from Syria , Saudi Arabia , Jordan , and Yemen.
In the interim years, we have watched the forces of al Qaeda increasingly make it their fight. Indeed, they are the single most dangerous enemy we face. There is no way our troops want to back down from that fight until they and their Iraqi counterparts have substantially destroyed the al Qaeda organization or forced it to go elsewhere.
The al Qaeda in Iraq are increasingly on the run. We have faced two enemies in the country — one we call the ACF, or the Anti-Coalition Forces — the other AIF, or the Anti-Iraqi Forces. The Anti-Coalition Forces are basically local tribesmen or former Iraqi army who believe we have become occupiers. These types are essentially nationalists. They want to see a strong Iraqi government, the coalition forces gone, and ultimately, a better quality of life for their children. They might very well engage a U.S. patrol moving through their area with lethal fires, but if the patrol were Iraqi, they would cheer their boys on.
The Anti-Iraqi Forces are different. They are principally al Qaeda, foreign fighters, and criminals. They do not want to see a strong Iraq government. Indeed, their objective is to return to the caliphate and 15th-century law. They are not likely to ever reach an agreement with a recognized authority and will simply have to be captured or killed. For roughly 36 months, these forces allied together to oppose coalition forces. For the past nine months, the Anti-Coalition Forces have joined with us to eliminate the Anti-Iraqi Forces.
The terrorist leader Zarqawi foretold the day would come before his death. He said to Iraqi Security Forces in 2004, “We fight them and this is difficult because of the gap that will emerge between us and the people of the land. How can we kill their cousins and sons linked to the inhabitants by kinship, blood, and honor? The real sons of this land will decide the matter through experience. Democracy is coming; there will be no excuse thereafter.”
We are hopeful that the so-called “Awakening Movement” of the tribes in al Anbar will continue to be a west-to-east phenomenon that has evolved. Baghdad is admittedly different with the ethnic mix found in the city, but even there, we have recently some bonding against the al Qaeda influence. The recent surge, or plus-up, that has been directed by the President comes at an advantageous time to keep pressure on the al Qaeda.
I must caution, however, that the source of the additional troops to Iraq has created an impact on available force flow that can only be judged as severe. The effort has brought both ground services to a precipitous edge — for future rotations are in jeopardy of not being fully rested, trained, or manned to go forward. Our message to the commanders in the field and to our leadership is that based on our current deployment model, the troop levels associated with the surge cannot be sustained indefinitely.
That said, I have heard this effort described as a Hail Mary — a last desperate attempt to achieve success. The analogy follows that if the effort fails — that is to say, if the pass falls incomplete — then the clock runs out and the game is over. Folks, I think that what we have at stake in Iraq is far too important for us as a Nation to take that view.
The much-advertised September report from commanders in theater will provide us an insight as to the progress on the ground. In the wake of that report, we as a Nation need to take an objective look at where we are in this struggle. We should not over-estimate our progress made or underestimate the momentum the enemy would gain if we were to conduct an unabated withdrawal of forces. There are many options left available, and we need to be pragmatic in terms of what is best for the Nation — both in the near term and in the context of this Long War.
You know, ladies and gentlemen, the Iraqis are a very proud people. They consider themselves fortunate to be Iraqis, and they look forward to the day when they can live in security and prosperous surroundings. A professor told me long ago that a sovereign nation needs five things to make it prosper: fresh water, arable land, an educated population, an exportable product, and a seaport. Iraq has all of those things. I would add the sixth element to the list, I think: leadership.
But the point is, Iraq is potentially a very rich country. Her neighbors look on that wealth with a lusty gaze, and al Qaeda would like nothing better than to control such resources for the Long War. We in turn, when we do draw down, must develop a regional strategy that protects Iraq within such time as she can build back her armed forces sufficient to defend national sovereignty, and yet we need to limit the footprint of our forces inside the country.
Let me switch topics at this point and talk about regional security and the next steps in the War on Terrorism. The drawdown of our forces in Iraq is inevitable, and I would argue necessary in order to be able to reset our corps, train more broadly for other contingencies, and prepare ourselves for the next engagements with extremists.
The key question will be, are we reducing our forces in Iraq, confident in the ability of Iraqi Security Forces to carry the preponderance of the fight and the ability of the Iraqis to self govern, or are we drawing down because we feel progress is not sufficiently dramatic — that Iraq is simply not worth the cost in treasure and blood — or because, as some say, we have already lost?
For those who subscribe to the latter point of view, I would offer to you that there is something else inextricably tied to our presence in Iraq , and that is the credibility of the United States of America . Whether or not we want to admit it as a Nation, the fight in Iraq has evolved into a struggle between us and al Qaeda — the religious extremists of our modern-day world and the people we must defeat in this long war.
Our enemies have said from the outside that Americans are weak of spirit and will lose our will to win if the fighting gets tough. He has looked at our other withdrawals in Vietnam , Lebanon , and Somalia , and has gained confidence that he can recreate yet another such scenario. I said to you earlier that Iraq and Afghanistan are the first battles of the Long War. He knows, just as we should know, that whoever wins the first battles gains incredible momentum. The loser faces a vastly different and much more daunting set of circumstances.
The keys to a successful struggle in Iraq are developing the rudimentary elements of self-governance sufficient for protecting citizens of the country, hold the nation together, and provide basic services to the people. The keys to a successful regional strategy will be posturing the moderates for success and regaining control of the Muslim religion, preventing wider outbreaks of sectarian violence amongst nations, and containing the Iranian threat.
Notwithstanding possible development of nuclear weapons, Iran is already the recognized power in the region amongst Gulf states . The nations in the region are watchful and uneasy — not yet willing to accommodate but in no position to challenge their Persian neighbor.
Iran for its part is also uneasy. She has significant coalition presence on both her eastern and western borders and an entire fleet of coalition combat ships in Gulf waters. The Iranian response to this thus far has been covert – that is to say, deniable support for both the insurgents in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan . She is exporting the successful Hezbollah model in an attempt to prolong both conflicts in order to avoid greater focus on Iran . The strategy to date has only been minimally successful but carries with it a high degree of risk.
The stability of the region is in the best interests of the industrial world as 30 percent of the world’s oil-supply flows from the Gulf ports, and that will continue to be the case through at least the next couple of decades. However, the threats are also enduring: al Qaeda, Iranian-sponsored, and surrogate terrorist organizations, and internal movements associated with virtually every Middle Eastern nation, to name the most serious.
But there has been unrest in extremist movements in the past. Indeed, there have been five previous jihads in history and relative peace were only possible after the moderates were sufficiently mobilized to say enough and regain control of their religion. Western nations have had little impact on settling previous jihads. The solution must invariably come from within. But with wise statecraft, we can, with our partner nations, positively influence events in the region and help shape the environment for success.
One of the things that Western nations can and must ensure is that this Long War does not somehow evolve into a cultural war between Muslims and Christianity. Of course, the extremists would like nothing better, and just as they have been able to engineer sectarian strife in Iraq , we can accurately predict they will attempt to inflame religion on a global scale.
We must continue to focus like a laser on extremism but extend the helping hand to other nations, particularly Muslim nations who seek it. Secretary Rumsfeld used to say that the most important success we have had against terrorism to date was the tsunami relief, and we didn’t fire a single round. There have been other successes in the wake of the tsunami disaster where our military responded magnificently: during the Pakistani earthquake, the Philippine mudslides, and even the Lebanon non-combatant evacuation.
But the response should not, unless absolutely necessary, always be a military response. Perhaps more than any other conflict we have engaged in, this generational struggle calls out for the application of other elements of American power. A fledgling country in North Africa susceptible to fundamentalist ideologies might not welcome a squad of Marines in the back of an Osprey, but they would be anxious to have a fire team of Americans from Agriculture and Justice, Border and Drug Enforcement to help them get their institutions right and prosper a higher standard of living. We need to properly resource and develop a deployment mentality among our U.S. government agencies so they can stand at the shoulder of our armed forces during this Long War.
Just as we must broaden our own ability to respond, we must welcome the contributions of other nations. Who would have guessed it 10 years ago that NATO would be as engaged in Afghanistan as we see today. Moreover, I don’t think that when they did agree to go in that they did so realizing their forces would be under frequent attack by a resurgent Taliban. By my estimation, however, NATO forces in the southern region have done pretty well this past spring, yet there are those in Washington who groused that “they owe us more” — that “this nation or that one is not doing as much as it should.”
Folks, I am reminded of a phrase, “a nation will invariably do what is in the best interest of that nation to do.” I’m convinced our country appreciates a coalition effort, and we need to do all in our power to encourage it. If it’s not in a nation’s capability to provide combat troops, then we ought to ask for military advisor teams, police trainers, or those who can counter drugs. Each nation should be encouraged to do as much as it can, but the key is to keep their flag active in that circle of flags that are engaged in this Long War on Terrorism.
One more element of information for you that may impact how you see the problem: Our Nation must make some very critical decisions in the next several months. I am supremely confident in the power of democracy to make tough decisions. We elect men and women of character, and the people of our great land feel free to engage in the debate. It is therefore critical that our countrymen, certainly our elected officials, understand the enemy’s strategy. We have both intercepted it and he has arrogantly placed it on his websites.
The strategy has five phases. The first phase calls for jihad — for all the brothers to rise up and slaughter the infidel. That phase has only been partially successful as we calculate there are probably a couple of thousand hardcore al Qaeda worldwide, and maybe a few tens of thousands of fighters.
The second phase calls for the removal of all Western influence out of the old caliphate – read “the Middle East .” I believe that that’s the phase we’re in now. Based on the discussions taking place in our government, one can argue that the enemy is perhaps more on plan in Iraq than we are.
During the third phase, the jihad plans to turn on and destroy what they would call the apostate governments of the Middle East , those that have partnered with the infidels; those that have sold us oil. In the execution of this phase, something very important happens. The enemy knows that he cannot defeat us on the battlefield, but he believes he can defeat our nation by wrecking our economy — bankrupting and making it impossible for us to deploy our forces. He intends to do that through control of the Middle East oil supply — either by destroying the capacity to produce, or if he takes it intact, by so distorting oil prices – hundreds of dollars per barrel – that Western economies come to a standstill.
The next phase includes the destruction of Israel and increasingly devastating terrorist attacks in the West. Finally, he says – and this may take 100 years – he extends the caliphate to encompass the globe, and every nation adopts his laws and his religion.
Folks, if you listen closely, you know that I mentioned at least two vital U.S. national objectives. My view is if we don’t get the job done right in Iraq the first time, we will be going back, and things are always tougher the second time around.
Let’s talk briefly about one last topic, and that is the role of the U.S. Marine Corps in the future. There are those who point out that the Marine Corps has, over the past few years, started to perform the function and take on the look of a second land army. That’s true. That rather remarkable transformation began in 2003 when we lined up along side an Army Corps and then matched them stride for stride all the way to Baghdad — several hundred miles beyond our traditional operating ranges adjacent to sea. Then a Marine Task Force attacked another 100 miles supported by organic air to capture Saddam’s hometown of Tikrit.
I mention it because it reflects the adaptability and the versatility of our Corps to respond to whatever the force the Nation needs. My belief is that for this Long War, there is no more relevant or capable force in the Nation’s inventory than the U.S. Marine Corps.
To be that force, however, we must understand what the environment will look like in the out years and the role our expeditionary strategy will play. We see a world in 2025 still suffering the effects of Islamic extremism. The dangers of weapons of mass destruction being used against the homeland will increase. Alternative energy sources will not be mature, so industrial nations and increasingly the developing nations will depend on the free flow of oil; however, fresh water will be equally important to petroleum products. During the 20th century, while the population increased 300 percent, the demand for water increased 600 percent. Demographics and the aging of the population of industrial countries, accompanied by a youth bulge in developing countries will literally change the face of the world as we know it. The U.S. technological advantage, economic power, and military might will still exceed that of other nations, but will not be nearly as dominant by 2025.
The Marine Corps, Navy, and Coast Guard are developing a maritime strategy to meet this changing world. It relies heavily on forward presence and extensive use of the global commons — in this instance, the oceans. The key elements of our strategy include: integration with the naval forces of other nations to keep open sea lines of communication; a form of strategic distributed operations wherein a small number of Marines embark aboard ship and work in partnership with the forces of developing nations; sea basing, our capability in an effort to minimize U.S. presence ashore on any other nation’s land; and, yes, maintaining a sufficient forcible entry capability should the situation demand it.
To continue to be the Nation’s force of choice, the Corps of today will have to require some changes. Post-Iraq, we will once again have to attain our expeditionary flavor. We have grown heavy in our effort to accomplish the mission and protect our troops in an IED-laden environment. Another layer of armor has a good feel to it, but it also limits the ability of an expeditionary force to be mobile and agile.
Our battalion equipment sets in the motor pools have become populated with over three times the gear that we once felt was sufficient. Most of it’s good stuff for the environment we’re in now, but the day must come when we sort out what we can carry — what we must have versus what is nice to have.
We will have to intelligently add the 27,000 Marines the President has authorized. Most of that number will be used to grow additional units that have been hard-pressed in this War on Terrorism. New capabilities, however, will also be created. We see the need for a training and advisory group that will provide advisor teams to nations developing a professional military or who are perhaps already engaged in the fight with extremists. We will have to train all our new Marines, active and reserve, in our bread-and-butter competencies — amphibious operations, combined arms maneuver, and mountain and jungle warfare training — to ensure that they are indeed ready for any clime and place.
There are a couple of other areas we have to fix as well. Recently, an Army mental health study pointed to the fact that Marines in a recent rotation in Iraq – in percentages that I was not comfortable with – was a little loose in their interpretation, maybe even application, of battlefield ethics. At the same time, we have a couple of incidents involving civilian deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq under investigation or engaged in trial. New information emerged just last week on yet another alleged incident. Now we’re going to let those things play out. No one is prematurely judging guilt or innocent, but the very convergence of all these events concern me, and so we are examining as a Corps how we prepare our young squad leaders to become that Strategic Corporal.
The Long War is indeed a small unit leaders’ fight, and we have to make sure our young warriors, operating sometimes with little sleep and in 120-degree heat, are up to the task of making rapid tactical decisions that may have strategic impact.
Because of the importance of the quality of the individual Marine, we will grow the force roughly 5,000 Marines a year over the next five years, but we do not intend to lower our standards. That makes it tough, but our recruiters are working hard, and we are making our quotas. I believe it helps that there will always be a certain number of great young Americans out there who want to be Marines. Once again, however, I have concerns, this time not with our Corps but with the Army. Folks, we have a great army, and I’ll be the first to tell you that the Marine Corps wins battles but the Army wins the Nation’s wars. Our Army is not having a good time of it right now recruiting, and yet their successes are inextricably tied to the successes of the Nation. I’ve encouraged our recruiters — I encourage you tonight, to help where you can. If a young American is never going to be Marine, there is tremendous pride in serving this country as a soldier in the United States Army.
Folks, let me leave you with just a couple of positive thoughts. Everything we read about in the future indicates that well-trained, well-led human beings with a capacity to absorb information and rapidly react to their environment have a tremendous asymmetric advantage over an adversary. That advantage goes to us. Our young Marines of today are courageous, willing to make sacrifices, and are marvelous team players. I am confident our Corps, and indeed our Nation, will be in great shape for a long time to come as these people continue to grow and assume greater positions of responsibility.
Finally, I recently named the book, “First to Fight,” by Lieutenant General Victor Krulak as the Commandant’s selection — a must-read from our reading list. In the book, he says that there will always be a Marine Corps because America loves our Marines. That is, unless one of two things were to happen – one would be that we as an institution were found to be somehow abusing the sons and daughters of this great land. The other would be if the Nation were to call on the Corps at a time of emergency and somehow we failed to answer that call. Ladies and gentlemen, let me assure you here tonight. Neither of those two things are going to happen on my watch. Thank you very much.
An organization called One Laptop Per Child is selling $178 laptops to developing nations. It is a project spearheaded by MIT’s Media Lab founder and former director (currently on leave) with Media Lab people collaborating on it. Intel, which has marketed a $300 Classroom PC, was initially set on battling OLPC, but joined OLPC’s board of directors on Monday. Google is supporting it.
The XO laptop is water and impact resistant, it has wireless and wired network capabilities. Although developed to use Linux, Microsoft researchers have determined it to be Windows capable.
It would be a smart move for the Kansas Department of Education and legislature to look into this.
BIRTHDAY REMEMBRANCE
This week we celebrate a special birthday. Monica Lewinsky turned 31. Can you believe it? It seems like only yesterday she was crawling around the White House on her hands and knees, and putting everything in her mouth.
They grow up so fast, don’t they?
Attacks on U.S. Troops in Iraq Grow in Lethality, ComplexityBigger Bombs a Key Cause of May’s High Death TollBy Ann Scott Tyson and John Ward AndersonWashington Post Staff WritersSunday, June 3, 2007; Page A01
“It is very clear that the number of attacks against U.S. forces is up” and that they have grown more effective in Baghdad, especially in recent weeks, said Maj. Gen. James E. Simmons, deputy commander for operations in Iraq.
Harry Reid- I’m surrendering as fast as I can
Posted By Uncle Jimbo
I often wonder what goes on in the heads of people like the awful Harry Reid, as he does everything within his power to try to defeat our military. I can’t find a way to credit his good will any more. He is either certifiable or he prefers an Al Qaeda win to a US one. I realize that some of the Democrats are still claiming that our withdrawal will clear the way for peace, ‘cuz the Iraqis really love each other, they just hated occupation. Riigghhtt.
No, most of the left has gone all the way to calling Iraq a loss, and gee Zawahiri noticed and used that to try and rally his troops. Ya’ see Z and the dying in bunches jihadis know something the defeateds here don’t. They are taking a severe ass-whippin’.
That is actually part of the reason for the clown cars emptying out in front of the Senate, with Harry and his heroic band of losers (of the war of course) steaming in to do anything but consider victory. Harry has no ideas, no strategy, and honestly no clue. If he believes the words that spew from his face he is fine with an Iraqi slaughter of Bibli-Koranic proportions, and granting Al Qaeda a victory, as well as leaving a vacuum that Iran will turn into another client state. But he will be damned if he will countenance any more of this victory talk.
I just can’t wrap my tiny little brain around how he thinks allowing those things to happen makes us safer in any way. I guess at the reductio ad absurdum level the troops who come home will be safer, but unlike Harry they also understand that winning this war makes a nuclear Iran with expansionist intentions less likely. Let alone the mayhem a currently reeling Al Qaeda in Iraq could wreak if given the chance to rest and refit in a lawless Iraq. They know that AQ would call this a win and that would give all kinds of punks with jihad in mind a huge morale boost. The Dems cry that Iraq is a recruiting tool for AQ and they are right, that is an unintended consequence, but it ignores the fact that these recruits are being swatted like flies. It’s not like some elite cadre of super-terrorists has been trained who now have the most fantastic methods for burying bombs in the dirt. The only major improvement to the first IED came from Iran, not AQ and the thousands of jihadi cannon fodder who have blown themselves up or been returned to their component molecules by precision munitions.
Al Qaeda was already at war with us everywhere on earth before we went into Iraq. They now have decided that is as good a place as any for the battle to restore the Caliphate and because some war opponents predicted that, they declare another defeat. Wrong, it is hardly ideal but honestly the terrain and the people of Iraq are much more favorable to us than the Pakistan/Afghan border where we had very little chance of a major military operation yielding Bin Laden or others. Matter of fact we learned that we just flat can’t operate in those areas well enough to do more damage to the bad guys than they can to us. This is made even less possible because of the tender hold Musharraf actually has on power in Pakistan. We never had permission to cross into Pakistan in force to chase bad guys as that would have brought a civil war there. So Musharraf tried appeasement as one of many bad moves he had to choose from and ceded Waziristan to AQ , and the other extremists in the area. Well that civil war he was avoiding was likely kicked off by the recent Red Mosque beat down and we may actually get permission to help save his ass by laying some scunion on the crazies up in Waziristan to stop them Islamifying the whole country.
So again the idea that Iraq is some terrorist Shangri-La is just silly. The bulk of the recruits get the keys to an old Toyota and a map to the market. Some freakin’ super genius it takes to mastermind that. Now, if there was just a car ferry to America. The only thing the Caliphate Crusaders have learned is that Americans are still weak as schoolgirls when it comes to blood and struggle. They know they just need to outlast our attention and outrage span, because we sure don’t have a knack for strategery. We would rather feel good right now, than understand that we will reap a whirlwind that will cost so much more if we leave in defeat.
So here we are, surge troops in place and kickin’ ass, COIN strategy showing gains and before we can even get a report from the Commander making it happen, we have the defeateds surrendering as fast as they can.
Harry needs to lose this war before Petraeus and the COIN strategy powered by the bad asses of our military wins the damn thing. I’m betting on the real men & women v. the thin-lipped, milquetoast, cream-in-the-coffee, cadaver
Great Post Semper Fi and California Girl!
Good to see some positive comments about our troops instead of all this negativity.
Lot of “half-empty” glass people on this Blog I’ve noticed.
You go California Girl!
Everything you say is exactly as it is, and I’m praying that our troops get to finish the job, however long it takes, before Reid and the surrendercrats screw things up.All this talk about how we’re facing new attacks in the U.S. now from AQ because they’re getting stronger. What do they think it will be like when Iraq is nothing more than a terrorist state?Reid and most of these democrats have their heads up their a$$es. I don’t for the life of me understand how they can say we’ve already lost, much less we quit and leave Iraq. They are cowards and traitors in my book.
CA Girl — You answered your own question, as to not having a clue about why the Dems want to leave Iraq — remember??
“I just can’t wrap my tiny little brain around
Semper Fi, California Girl, Karl, Anybody…
Repub, when you have conversations with yourself, its called schizophrenia. There are doctors and medications that can help. Seek help. Seek help now !!!
Will the democrats get back to work now?
They ran on a platform last year critical of congress NOT DOING THEIR JOB:
After the November elections, Democrats promised to restore order to a budget process many had thought broken down. and said they would move 12 new spending bills for fiscal 2008 individually and on time.The last part of that equation is highly unlikely. The end of the fiscal year is less than three months away, and most government agencies are likely going to have to operate on stopgap appropriations well into the winter if current trends hold up. The backlog of work remaining — the House still must pass six spending bills, the Senate has all 12 to go.The biggest reason is spending levels — Democrats want to provide about $23 billion more than Bush wants overall, while shifting another $3.5 billion from the Pentagon budget to domestic programs. “Democrats in Congress are also behind schedule passing the individual spending bills needed to keep the federal government running,”. “By failing to do the important work necessary to pass these important bills by the end of the fiscal year, Democrats are failing in their responsibility to make tough decisions and spend the people’s money wisely.”
There are really only four options: Negotiation, an omnibus bill so big the president could not sustain a veto, government shutdown, or another long-term continuing resolution like the one Democrats passed this year.
Democrats are not about to flatline spending — or zero out earmarks — this time around. “There’s not going to be a CR. That’s not going to happen,” said Senate Labor-Health and Human Services Appropriations Subcommittee Chairman Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, who is seeking roughly $12 billion more than the president wants for programs within his jurisdiction. That would be about $9 billion over the current year, a 6.2 percent boost commensurate with the bill the House Appropriations Committee is taking up Wednesday.
http://www.govexec.com/
That is pretty conceited to assume all conservatives, or those who disagree with you, are only one person. I’m my own person. Those that cast stones and call names, are revealing more about themselves than they may think.
Iraq + Al QaedaIraq + Al QaedaIraq + Al Qaeda
Sorry, but repeating that lie a trillion more times will not make it true. Al Qaeda was not in Iraq until after we invaded.
Any bets on Congress completing the dozen pending appropriation bills before 30 September?
Come on, someone bet with me. We got casino’s now, you can gamble a little.
Like you said, CA Girl(or whoever) “I just can’t wrap my tiny little brain around”
Well Cali girl, if you are for real, you haven’t been here long enough to know. There are some cons on this board who ARE legit, but there is one who changes his name more often than I breathe…
Steven Davis,Al Qaeda was not in Iraq until after we invaded.
So what? Who cares about who shot JR?
The point is they are there now.
Whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
Boom!
Why do the few remaining supporters of bush hate the country, the troops, and the whole world? Why do they insult our troops by saying “let them win.”?
Hullooooo?
The war is freaking OVER. “Mission accomplished” “major combat operations in Iraq have ended”
Remember?
Our troops won the war in three damn weeks. It is not their fault that bush keeps moving the goal posts. Let them come home! I know I’m keeping the military as far away from my kid as possible until this adventure of the military industrial complex is a distant memory.
bush Republicans- getting our troops killed for nothing since 2003
Oh and don’t miss a new episode of “lil bush” tonight at 9:30 on Comedy Central.
heh heh, I LOVED last weeks episode. A drooling little zombified McCain repeating “I support George Bush and all his policies.”
No takers? Come on all you libs! Stop singing Kum-ba-ya about the defeated bill to end the war.
Let’s have some fun! Let’s do a little gambling. Anyone bet that Congress WILL PASS THE DOZEN REMAINING APPROPRIATION BILLS BEFORE TAKING THEIR MONTH LONG VACATION?
New Fiscal Year starts 30 September…….
What part of this do you neocons not understand? You had the reigns for 7 years now, and all you’ve managed to do is screw us over and over again. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE DONE WITH YOUR WAY.
And yeah, I totally believe anything a RECRUITER has to say. Bah!
I know I’m keeping the military as far away from my kid as possible until this adventure of the military industrial complex is a distant memory.JR
Oh come on JR, let your kids come out and play. Don’t wait until our nation calls on them for what one person calls a “just” war. Or are you gonna let them defend our nation against all enemies foreign and domestic? Will it take a war the president approves AND congress? Well we had that, so what will it take? You must remember the sixties when your kind spat on the military. Is that what you are implying?
I don’t think you have any control over what your kids decide to do when they reach adulthood whatsoever.
ABC interviewed some of the troops. They dared any member of congress to shadow them – side by side – for a 15 month tour. They are spending and average of 14 months ‘engaged’ with— Iraqis, Iranians, Saudis, al qaeda – take your pick. They patrol for 6 hours and have 4 hours of down time. They have no chance to recharge.
They are not happy with their mission, they are burned out, and at greater risk.
And they are doing this for what? What have we gained. Al-qaeda is in Iraq now. Score one for us. So is Saudi and Iran. The Iraqis don’t want al-qaeda there, but they do take their support, personell and money. If we leave, al-qaeda will be forced out.
So what is to gain by staying?
* WHY * did the al Quaeda foreigners move into Iraq after we invaded?
Because the Iraqi insurgents allowed them to, to help attack the U.S. occupiers.
When the U.S. leaves, the Iraqi nationalists will drive the AQ foreigners out of Iraq.
The longer the U.S. stays in Iraq, the bigger, and stronger AQ becomes.
cosmos – and the more accepted they become as they fight a common foe.
Score one.
What benchmarks has the US Congress achieved in 2007?
What part of this do you neocons not understand?Posted by: political_mom
surrendercrats! surrendercrats!surrendercrats! White flag waver!
Marry me political mom, your name calling turns me on!
neocon
By the way readers and parents? A little known provision of the “no child left behind” act allows military recruiters access to your kids records….and your kids. All without even notifying you at all. I know this because my kid was inducted into the JROTC. Permission slip for his first ” camping trip” was the first I heard about it.
My son was 10 at the time.
10
Of course when I explained things to my son he dropped out immediately. Like me, he does not like dishonest duplicity.
As we approach a new school year, it would probably be a good idea for someone to post info about a form you can sign.
And yeah you gotta be proactive about it. They do not send these forms home. It denies recruiters access to your kids or their records without your permission.
“The longer the U.S. stays in Iraq, the bigger, and stronger AQ becomes.”
cosmosphere do you think they will simply VANISH from Iraq after we surrender?
A video of the 15-month challenge, etc in SolDevVB’s 1:40 PM post.
‘A Violent, ‘Normal’ Day in BaghdadPhotojournalist Captures the Troop Surge Firsthand, as Soldiers Navigate the Perils of Baghdad’http://abcnews.go.com/WN/story?id=3383389&page=1
Not surrendering
Another Nic?
Hey WE Blog, if you charged a dime everytime Repub swaps nics, we could more than fund the war. Get on it !!!!
Republican
YES!!! The Iraqis have already said they do not want al-qaeda in their country. right now they want more support getting Americans out.
Who cares about the Nics? What difference does a name make? I can smell a Lib no matter what name is used.
Isn’t the content of the message what matters?
Or maybe it’s the wrapper around it that counts.
Well JR, you have revealed your true colors, or lack there of.
You really just despise the US Military. It has nothing to do with the present war. It has to do with your wearing a flower behind your ear, where have all the flowers gone?, we ain’t gonna study war no mo.
By stating that you will not allow your children to serve in the military, and your pointed steps to NOT allow recruiters access to even provide them options, you are basically saying it is o.k. to have the freedom to critize my country,
But somebody ELSE can defend my right to do so.
It isn’t about Iraq, its about any war.
Most of the al Quaeda in Iraq are new recruits, and not very dedicated to the “cause”. If forced out, they’ll probably return to their normal lives.
But the longer they fight, the more dedicated they become.
Again,
Why do the bushies insult the troops? The war is over. Their were no wmds. Saddam is dead.
Apparently SOME have more slavish fealty for a politician than they do love of country or support for our troops…
That’s sad.
Another Nic?Posted by: SolDevVB
Another Nic? Which implies?
Another Nic? And is important why?
Another Nic? Designates the message invalid?
Another Nic? Is scary because?
Another Nic?
Another Nic?
Another Nic?
Another Nic?
Most of the al Quaeda in Iraq are new recruits, and not very dedicated to the “cause”. If forced out, they’ll probably return to their normal lives.
But the longer they fight, the more dedicated they become.
Posted by: cosmos
And you are an authority on military matters and have recently returned from interviewing a large enough number of AQ to make this statement?
Or are you relying on the official Intelligence reports?
Or simply a genius in the making?
What it implies is that SOME hear remember your previous meltdowns.
I don’t blame you for being ashamed. You are a certified nut.Go get another nic. Get a stack of ‘em. The wrapper aint thick enough to hide ya.
JM now 40 % more nuts.
Another Nic is scary because maybe someone else might have an opinion?
Or multiple, dysfunctional personalities?
Again,
Why do the bushies insult the troops? The war is over. Their were no wmds.J.R,
No WMD’s? Say it isn’t so?
“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998“He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.” S- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998.”[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.” — From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998″This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.” — From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others”Whereas Iraq has consistently breached its cease-fire agreement between Iraq and the United States, entered into on March 3, 1991, by failing to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction program, and refusing to permit monitoring and verification by United Nations inspections; Whereas Iraq has developed weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological capabilities, and has made positive progress toward developing nuclear weapons capabilities” — From a joint resolution submitted by Tom Harkin and Arlen Specter on July 18, 2002″There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to enriched uranium from foreign sources — something that is not that difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.” — John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002″Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.”- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members .. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002″We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.”- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
Most of the al Quaeda in Iraq are new recruits, and not very dedicated to the “cause”. If forced out, they’ll probably return to their normal lives.
But the longer they fight, the more dedicated they become.
Posted by: cosmos | July 18, 2007 at 02:04 PM
And Cosmos is really a wizard! He is all knowing, heck, he must be the Wizard of Oz!!!
We’re off to see the cosmos, the wonderful cosmos of Oz. Because of the made up things he does!
“What benchmarks has the US Congress achieved in 2007?”
Posted by: lhg | July 18, 2007 at 01:49 PM
That’s funny! None were set – except for the Iraq Surrender Benchmark.
“What benchmarks has the US Congress achieved in 2007?”
Posted by: lhg | July 18, 2007 at 01:49 PM
That’s funny! None were set – except for the Iraq Surrender Benchmark.
“What benchmarks has the US Congress achieved in 2007?”
Posted by: lhg | July 18, 2007 at 01:49 PM
That’s funny! None were set – except for the Iraq Surrender Benchmark.
“What benchmarks has the US Congress achieved in 2007?”
Posted by: lhg | July 18, 2007 at 01:49 PM
That’s funny! None were set – except for the Iraq Surrender Benchmark.
Uh huh
Cute history lesson.
Um….So?
Oh I GET it! Lotsa people were wrong. So let’s KEEP doing the wrong thing…..just because of that!
Our troops won. They deserve parades. They deserve to come home.
Hey if the Iraqi parliament gets August off because it’s 130 degrees? Well why not our troops?
Iraq has been given MORE than a fair chance.
“What benchmarks has the US Congress achieved in 2007?”
Posted by: lhg | July 18, 2007 at 01:49 PM
That’s funny! None were set – except for the Iraq Surrender Benchmark.
Another nic .
People build (or lose) respect and that is associated with a nic.
Nic switching shows that one’s nic is –burnt- because the poster is apparently mentally unstable.
When one assumes many nics, posts under said nics, and has a conversation with ones multiple nics, it becomes apparent that the mental instability is psychosis.
Is psychosis scary? Youbetcha
“What benchmarks has the US Congress achieved in 2007?”
Posted by: lhg | July 18, 2007 at 01:49 PM
That’s funny! None were set – except for the Iraq Surrender Benchmark.
Liberal Kool Aide Tape Recording #202
When you can’t hold your own in an argument -resort to name calling.
“What benchmarks has the US Congress achieved in 2007?”
Posted by: lhg | July 18, 2007 at 01:49 PM
That’s funny! None were set – except for the Iraq Surrender Benchmark.
SolDevVB,
Let’s not include me in your childish Blog games. Okay?
JR
Your son was in High School at age 10?
https://www.usarmyjrotc.com/
“The United States Army’s Junior Reserve Officers’ Training Corps, or JROTC, is designed to teach high school students …… ”
The Navy and AF JROTC programs operate the same way ….
… also, as I recall parents have to sign off on being in JROTC…
Are you thinking of the Cub or Boy Scouts ?
So JM
Do you like…dress as other people when ya go out? Are you a flapper today? A pirate? A gynecologist/clown?
People build (or lose) respect and that is associated with a nic
Posted by: SolDevVB
What is scary is you believe this. You live in an electron world that is about to blow you away with change.
You have built this little electronic world that you live in. You have your ego stroked, and maybe get some of your badly needed attention based upon a fantasy.
A fantasy that evolved on the web, which is made up, make believe, and does not have one shred of evidence in truth in the “characters” you have molded in your mind from a, a, a,
(I can’t say it)
a, a, (but I will)
a BLOG!!!!!
Jr high. Maybe he was 11. Would you care to call him a liar too? He’s right here.
Wow. If you really are a vet Repub, you are WAAAYYYY over due for a psych eval.
Holy crap you blew some fuses. There is help out there for you. Seek it out.
Hey if the Iraqi parliament gets August off because it’s 130 degrees? Well why not our troops?
JR
Pssst JR! Our Congress is about to take 30 days off, and it’s only 80 degrees.
And as a former “troop” we don’t take off because of weather. We are more dedicated and powerful than even your mailman.
Holy crap you blew some fuses. There is help out there for you. Seek it out.
Posted by: SolDevVB
I had a rough childhood. Do ya got a minute?
Not a single one republican. Seek professional help.
While America IS a great deal of a mess…
It is NOT a fledgling government DEPENDENT on the support of the military of another nation.
For the Iraqui parliament to take off even a day at this time demonstrates that they are not worthy of the sacrifice of our troops and our treasury. I cannot imagine that any sane person is not outraged by it.
Oh that’s right. I forgot who I was arguing with.
So republican, what branch did you serve in? What was your rank and MOS? How many years did you serve? What was and how did you sustain your injury?
Not a single one republican. Seek professional help.
Posted by: SolDevVB
Can I sit on your lap?
I served 10 years – 1988-98. I served in the Gulf War. I was a 63B2P – Light wheel vehicle Mechanic, Air Borne Qualified. Sgt. E-5
JR
Not calling any one a liar — just stating the facts as I know them (20 yrs AF, 3 as a JROTC evaluator) — and as posted on the JROTC pages —
Can’t or won’t own up. Lies lies and more lies. Switch nics to hide your lies.
Disgusting. And you call yourself a vet. Thats even more disgusting. You have become one of the most vile entities I have ever known.
As a former troop – a REAL troop – CUT YOUR SHIT republican. You are a disgrace to any uniform.
Many-named troll(s),
Thank you for the personal attacks, instead of trying to refute my claims.
For the Iraqui parliament to take off even a day at this time demonstrates that they are not worthy of the sacrifice of our troops and our treasury. I cannot imagine that any sane person is not outraged by it.
Posted by: J R |
For the American Congress to take off even one day when they have 12 appropriations bills due by 30 september – including military pay, demonstrates that they are not worthy of the sacrifice of our troops and our treasury. I cannot imagine that any sane person is not outraged by it.
(Not one liberal took on my bet an hour ago)
“For the American Congress to take off even one day when they have 12 appropriations bills due by 30 september – including military pay, demonstrates that they are not worthy of the sacrifice of our troops and our treasury.”
I guess you’d have to say that about the pres too:
Bush ‘Strongly Opposes’ Troop Pay, Benefit Initiatives
http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,142117,00.html
Bigger Military Raise, Better Benefits HitTom Philpott | July 13, 2007
Talk about lousy timing.With President Bush’s popularity scraping bottom in opinion polls, with U.S. casualties rising in Iraq in a force surge that has stretched soldier tours to 15 months, the Bush administration July 10 said it “strongly opposes” key military pay and benefit gains tossed into their fiscal 2008 defense bill.Initiatives the administration “strongly opposes” include:– A military pay raise for next January of 3.5 percent versus 3 percent endorsed by the White House.– Lowering the age-60 start of reserve retirement annuities for reserve component members by the length of their future mobilizations.– Expanding eligibility for Combat-Related Special Compensation to service members forced by combat disabilities to retire short of 20 years.
.. more at the link
I served 10 years – 1988-98. I served in the Gulf War. I was a 63B2P – Light wheel vehicle Mechanic, Air Borne Qualified. Sgt. E-5
Posted by: SolDevVB
Can I sit on your lap?
I can say anything I want regarding my military service. I can post the truth, make something up, or make up little white lies about my service. Why waste the time? You can never prove or disprove what I post. You should realize this is not real life on this blog.
You need to see if the VA will still take you. You might suffer from shell shock.
Half Full,
I’d have to take your side on this. Until the Iraq issue is resolved, Congress should stay.
Sigh…
Well JM I can’t and do not wish to entertain your existence further. You’ll get no arguement from me on OUR congress. I wish they were in session all the time.
Aint nobody suffering and dying for them while they take a holiday though. Nice try with the straw man though. Maybe you can find more ….creative uses for that rubber…er… straw man.
Ciao
The many-named troll(s) also posts items out-of-context, such as Hillary’s comments at http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/07/open-thread-718.html#comment-76342728
http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html“Because bipartisan support for this resolution makes success in the United Nations more likely, and therefore, war less likely, and because a good faith effort by the United States, even if it fails, will bring more allies and legitimacy to our cause, I have concluded, after careful and serious consideration, that a vote for the resolution best serves the security of our nation….My vote is not, however, a vote for any new doctrine of pre-emption, or for uni-lateralism, or for the arrogance of American power or purpose — all of which carry grave dangers for our nation, for the rule of international law and for the peace and security of people throughout the world.”
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
Not to mention the new intel, and new inspections after Oct 10, 2002.
Did Cosmos post something cogent?
I must have missed it.
In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members .. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
Mitchell suggested a conflict between Clinton’s opposition to the war and support for the troopsOn the June 20 edition of NBC’s Today, NBC News chief foreign affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell cited Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s (D-NY) June 19 schedule — “after speaking out against the war all day, Clinton was honored by the Marines last night” — as an example of how “leading Democrats make sure they strike a balance between pleasing the base and positioning themselves to run against a Republican.” By juxtaposing the two events as though they were in tension, Mitchell echoed a view commonly articulated by the media that “speaking out against the war” is anti-military or not supportive of the troops.
Media Matters for America has repeatedly documented (here, here, here, here, and here) various media outlets — including NBC — suggesting that a public official cannot be both against the war and supportive of the military. For instance, as Media Matters noted, on the February 13 edition of Today, co-host Campbell Brown said: “It’s tough for Democrats. … It’s difficult to say that you’re against the war and at the same time not say that you’re against the troops.”
From the June 20 edition of NBC’s Today, which included a video clip of Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne Jr.:
MITCHELL: But, how far is too far? The leading Democrats make sure they strike a balance between pleasing the base and positioning themselves to run against a Republican.
DIONNE [video clip]: They’re thinking very hard about: Who can we put up? The Democrats are saying, “Who can actually win this election?”
MITCHELL: So, after speaking out against the war all day, Clinton was honored by the Marines last night at a sunset parade at the Iwo Jima Memorial.
Democrats know if they move too far to the left, they can lose the independent swing voters who will likely decide who does win the White House — Matt.
At Clinton’s appearance with her husband Tuesday in Iowa City, local resident Jim Walters stood on a nearby bridge holding a sign above his head saying: “Hillary voted for this war.”
It drew the attention of news photographers and, according to three witnesses, prompted Clinton supporters to call for security and attempt to block his sign with Hillary for President placards.
That outraged some undecided voters like Nick Kowalczyk, 27, a University of Iowa graduate student. So he and some friends took some other signs Walters had with him and held them over their heads.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5614723,00.html
What a buzz kill huh?
O.K. I’ll ask very nicely this time. Will one of my fellow Kansan Americans, who are not leaning toward the republican side, please take my bet on whether or not our great and finally democratic congress will pass the 12 appropriation bills before 30 September, 2007?
I’m anxious to bet at the new casino’s, but I’m not sure they will be built soon if ever. I could drive to the Indian Casino or to KC and hit one in Missouri.Don’t know which option is better for keeping my dollars in kansas.
SO PLEASE BET!!!
From Steven Aftergood’s newsletter…************CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY TO LIMIT MILITARY OPERATIONS
Does Congress have the constitutional authority to legislate limits on the conduct of the war in Iraq?
The answer may seem obvious. But to resolve any lingering doubt, the Congressional Research Service gave the topic a thorough analytic treatment in a newly updated report and concluded that Congress does have such authority.
“It has been suggested that the President’s role as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces provides sufficient authority for his deployment of troops, and any efforts on the part of Congress to intervene could represent an unconstitutional violation of separation-of-powers principles.”
“While even proponents of strong executive prerogative in matters of war appear to concede that it is within Congress’s authority to cut off funding entirely for a military operation, it has been suggested that spending measures that restrict but do not end financial support for the war in Iraq would amount to an ‘unconstitutional condition’.”
To rebut any such suggestion, the newly updated CRS report “provides historical examples of measures that restrict the use of particular personnel, and concludes with a brief analysis of arguments that might be brought to bear on the question of Congress’s authority to limit the availability of troops to serve in Iraq.”
“Although not beyond debate, such a restriction appears to be within Congress’s authority to allocate resources for military operations,” the report stated.
See “Congressional Authority To Limit U.S. Military Operations in Iraq,” updated July 11, 2007:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33837.pdf************
I’m a libertarian. I am betting they won’t. I bet the pissed off the right so bad with the pajama party last night that nothing gets done.
That should be brought to light as well. If the legislation is good, PASS IT. I am so freakin sick of the party line crap – mostly doled out by the NeoCons at this point– I could wretch.
So Steve what’s your point?
Congress failed to do anything even though they could.
Do you want them to spend the next sixty days working on the war, or maybe the 12 appropriation bills which Congress is CLEARLY responsible for completing by 30 September?
Same constitution applies.
2 Million+ killed in Cambodia after the US pulls out of Vietnam.
How many will be killed in the Mideast after the US surrenders there?
Max,How many will be killed if we stay?
SolDevVB: I couldn’t agree with your last post more – with one minor exception. The neocon remark.
Aren’t you just feeding the fire?
If congress would stop wasting time bad mouthing EACH OTHER and the president, maybe they could get something accomplished for America this fiscal year.
I am not happy with either party and I let them know that with my vote last fall. I could go on, but the point is these people need to work together for the good of our country.
In any profession, workplace, school, or even sporting event – do you get anything done if you call your fellow workers names all the time?
Our congress people are on the news every night bad mouthing each other. Then they expect the next day for the other side to come to agreement with them on the issues?
Half, not a betting person here, but it seems to me that the current Congress is in no better or worse shape on appropriations bills than many of its predecessors at the current time. I’ll see if I can find some statistics on the number of such bills passed by the 30 September date over the past few years, will go out 10 years if the data are available.
Someone help me out here. If democrats decide they want to revisit and vote again on the war issue, let’s pretend at some point they get the votes to send a bill to the president.
The president has sixty days to either sign legislation, veto it, or it becomes law without his signature? Is this correct?
Reason I ask: Maybe they should start working on the other bills our Nation needs. They can come back after that to work the war effort. Because even if they reach agreement, which will waste more time, Bush can sit on it for 59 days before putting a VETO on it. So they’d have to start anew for an override. Which again delays any other legislation.
Does anyone know about the sixty day thing?
I agree Half. 100%.
I really really REALLY didn’t like Clinton, but by God he did reach across the aisle to get things done. Got the Congress to do the same.
I don’t like to bash Bush (other than the war) but he REALLY seems to have divided the congress.
I use NeoCon because I am PISSED off that the conservatives have let the NeoCons take over. The NeoCon agenda serves no one. I want real conservatives back in office. Small government. Hands off foreign policy. Less taxation. What the conservatives used to stand for.
Now it seems all they do is stand in the way. The libs don’t get a pass either. They aren’t helping much. But DAMNIT, the right used to be the party of reason. They used to be the uniters. Look at them though. BOTH parties. Disgraceful.
Posted by: Vaughn Tolle | July 18, 2007 at 03:30 PM
Not necessary for you to do the research. It doesn’t matter to me what happened in the past.
What matters is that I split my vote in Kansas and voted for a democrat who campaigned on the terrible track record of congress in not enacting legislation in a timely manner. She promised to put us back on track if elected.
So no matter what you determine, if my representative breaks her campaign promise, my campaign check and my vote goes to the opponent.
Thanks anyway
To tell you the truth Half, I think this is a tactic used by the left to garner favor with the sheeple –
“See? We are trying but the RIGHT won’t let us get anything done…”
Sad thing is, they are right. Maybe they should pick their battles. The war funding is due again in Sept. Why not wait for Sept, read the report, and move forward at that time?
OK, Half; understand your position. For anyone else, link below relates to FY 2006 (date would be 10/1/05), there were but two of 11 as I count passed “on time”, with three continuing resolutions (to keep the doors open while trying to get the final bill(s) passed):
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/approp/app06.html
Christ, I take a week off and Republank is misbehaving like a six year old on speed.
Acid
Wow Sol, you sound an awful lot like me and many conservatives I know. I waited my whole adult life for a republican house, a republican senate, and a republican president. I dreamed about it because I thought we’d cut the waste, cut the budget, cut the deficit, cut the pork (now politically correct “earmarks”) and cut the taxes.
Instead they cannot even cut the crap. They didn’t even accomplish ONE of my political beliefs. They couldn’t even permanently enact the tax cuts!!!!!
PUBLIC NOTICE: THIS IS A PRIVATE POST. IT IS NOT TO BE READ BY ANY LIBERALS FOR THEIR READING PLEASURE. I LAID IT OUT, SO DON’T BEAT ME UP TOO BADLY.
Half, see Article I, Section 7, U.S. Constitution. It’s ten days (Sundays excepted) to return a vetoed bill. If not vetoed within the ten day period, if the Congress is in session, it becomes law; if the Congress is not in session, then it does not.
“Instead they cannot even cut the crap.”
Truer words ne’r been spoke.
I tell you what, it was Ron Paul that really set me straight. I’ve been a republican for as long as I understood the meaning of the word handout. But I got so damn sick of this neocon crap.
I watched a video or two, liked what I saw, then checked his voting record. Loved what I saw. He was the ONLY candidate at the debates who answered direct questions directly and truthfully. I want an honest president this time around. Christ when was the last time we had one of those?
Thanks for the information. So democrats could still try to quickly pass something on the war if they wanted to and they feel it is important.
I just hope they get the rest of the bills passed. Nancy Boyda promised me. I liked the track star, but Nancy is married to a former Marine. I hope she keeps her promise.
Well, she’s but one cog in the wheel. I hope she can keep her promise also, Half, although she’s not my rep.
“The reason for the progress is that during October of ‘06, the leading Sunni sheik’s in the province decided that U.S. forces were less an enemy to them than the al Qaeda. They finally had their fill of the murder and intimidation campaigns the al Qaeda was subjecting them to, and suddenly, themes the Marines had held fast to for over two-and-a-half years began to resonate. As was their culture, the tribal leaders determined that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend,” and thus began a partnership that has over the intervening months all but cleared the hard-core terrorists from the region“.
This was one of the points I was trying to make, many are crowing about this being the doing of the occupation. Where it was not our part but the Sunnis deciding that Al-Qaeda was their greater enemy. I hope that by the time they drive Al-Qaeda out, we can be out too. Either their attentions will turn back to our troops, we will still be the one that invade their country. As the saying above said “ “the enemy of my enemy is my friend,” the key word will turn to our enemy.
Our present system of government is coming to an end.
FBI: Iraqis Being Smuggled Across the Rio GrandeShare July 17, 2007 3:11 PM
Brian Ross Reports:
The FBI is investigating an alleged human smuggling operation based in Chaparral, N.M., that agents say is bringing “Iraqis and other Middle Eastern” individuals across the Rio Grande from Mexico.
An FBI intelligence report distributed by the Washington, D.C. Joint Terrorism Task Force, obtained by the Blotter on ABCNews.com, says the illegal ring has been bringing Iraqis across the border illegally for more than a year.
Border Patrol officials in the area said they were unaware of the specifics of the FBI’s report, and federal prosecutors in New Mexico told ABCNews.com they had no current cases involving the illegal smuggling of Iraqis.
The FBI report, issued last week, says the smuggling organization “used to smuggle Mexicans, but decided to smuggle Iraqi or other Middle Eastern individuals because it was more lucrative.” Each individual would be charged a fee of $20,000 to $25,000, according to the report.
The people to be smuggled would “gather at a house on the Mexican side of the border” and then cross the Rio Grande into the U.S., the report says.
“Unidentified individuals would then transport them to train stations in El Paso, Texas or Belen, New Mexico,” according to the FBI document.
A spokesman in Albuquerque said the FBI had “no viable information” that could lead to a case.
Until recently, the United States has kept its doors all but shut to the estimated two million refugees fleeing the violence in Iraq. Until this year, the country had taken in fewer than 800 Iraqi refugees, according to the State Department. This May, the Bush administration pledged to resettle 7,000 Iraqi refugees here by the end of the year.
This post has been updated.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/07/fbi-iraqis-bein.html
Do my eyes deceive me, or is the Many nic’d troll actually talking to itself here using different nics???
I thought I smelled a foul odor in the air before I left for errands… and its still here…
Max, are you having some kind of a problem today??? ALL these identical posts??? And your point is what???
“What benchmarks has the US Congress achieved in 2007?”
Posted by: lhg | July 18, 2007 at 01:49 PM
That’s funny! None were set – except for the Iraq Surrender Benchmark.
Posted by: Max | July 18, 2007 at 02:16 PM
Steven noted on another thread that the Khahn troll is setting up sock puppets so it can talk to itself.
Just wanted to call people’s attention to the Khan troll’s methods–
It BECOMES whatever best suits its argument.
If he wants to berate black people for rejecting Republicanism, he BECOMES a black man (Eier) or BECOMES married to a black African woman with mixed race kids no less (FF).
If it wants to talk about how much soldiers sacrifice for American’s freedom, he BECOMES “Eagle Beak” the married Marine, sweating in the jungle.
Then perceptive readers call it on its lies, and he plays the “victim,” “how dare you not believe a crippled vet!”
Meine Gott in Heaven, this troll is such a POS.
LOL CapN… That German reminds me of the last time I ever saw my Grandma before she died… She said that about her dinner tray being late… Meine Got in Himmel, ju would tink dey would at leezt get my pfud on time… (accent included) Thanks for the memory!!
What is scary, is that sometimes I think the Troll actually believes he is talking to another “person” ROFL
What is scary, is that sometimes I think the Troll actually believes he is talking to another “person” ROFL
Ooops sorry about that double… it hung up for a while posting… mercy sakes…
My my, paranoia on this thread as well.
The Libs are showing their panties today aren’t they? :)
The Republicans in congress (the Senate) are suffering under some misguided delusion, that by being obstructionist to what the will of the people, as telegraphed by last election, they can regain control.The last congress was a do nothing congress because they rarely held sessions, and were basically a rubber stamp congress when they did meet.
I tot i taw a twoll… i deed, i deed, i deed taw a twoll!!
Ohhhh myyyyy and da twol want to see panties too myy myyy
Okay, TROLL–
I’m turning you in. I’m going to send Phillip Brownlee an e-mail asking him to pull your posts and ban you if he can.
When we complained about you last time (before the boycott), he said we should “ignore you.”
We did. And that’s why you have morphed into a hydra with 100 heads, all of them annoying and irritating and full of SHIT.
You want this board to be all about you all the time.
Okay, TROLL, you got it.
Now let’s see how you like it.
And when you whine about who complained about you and turned you in.
It was me. I did it.
Go for it. I never turn anybody in, because it’s just a blog.
The only complaint I made was that one post that was vulgar about the “Patriot Guard” guy, forgot his name. And that post was deleted.
But if it makes you feel adequate Capn, go ahead. As I said before, I have not posted today withe exception of what you saw recently.
The many-named LYING troll probably LIED about being banned, so he could complain, and run around using multiple nics.
TypeKey is optional — you can NOT use TypeKey.
Or you can use Typekey.
The dems are doing this because they’re tired of getting the low ratings as the republicans taunt them as the ones who aren’t doing anything. So the dems wanted to make it crystal clear who was to blame for the lack of pressure on the President.
THIS is why this happened now. I predict their ratings will come up substantially while the republicon ratings go lower.
Yup, already done, Troll.
Already done.
Purple chicken done flew the coop.
That’s good Capn, now you can move on with life and all that.
Capn,
Thank you very much. Did you also include that the troll implied that Mr. Brownlee HAD banned him, but then removed the ban?
“Thank you Mr. Brownlee. :)”
Posted by: Kansas | July 18, 2007 at 06:38 PMhttp://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/07/open-thread-717.html#comment-76370158
And it’s odd how the troll forgot that ” ” (aka blank) made the vulgar “Patriot Guard” post, on the same thread the troll was using ” “.
The troll has often been called Republank since.
I cannot believe the extent of this mental meltdown I am seeing on this Blog today… Absolutely unbelievable!!!
Nacil Newbie–
Why would there be a lawsuit againt the Eagle?
If the Wichita Eagle knowingly prints lies and/or knowingly libels someone, are they not accountable?
How different is a blog from a newspaper?
Questions for a virtual brave new world.
No way is The Eagle responsible for what post-ers post.
I wouldn’t be so sure of that. I don’t believe the virtual libel case has had its day in court just yet.
Nacilbuper republicaN
Hydra head number 101
The Wichita Eagle provides the forum, the bandwidth, the servers, etc. for its online version of the newspaper and the blog is an extension of that newspaper.
If the Eagle prints a libel or lies about someone in the paper are they not reponsible?
The Eagle could monitor this Blog but chooses not too. They have editors that monitor content in the paper just to avoid lawsuits.
Perhaps the Eagle should spend the money and monitor the Blogs or shut them down.
No, not Republican, just his reverse ;>
“Perhaps WE Blog will switch to a registration system, if the troll keeps causing problems.”
Posted by: cosmos | July 17, 2007 at 08:00 PM
“That would be cool cosmos, I can set up 300 IP numbers right now along with untraceable encrypted emails to go with them.
Bring on the registration system.”
Posted by: chaz | July 17, 2007 at 08:04 PMhttp://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/07/open-thread-717.html#comment-76212676
Ohhhh GOOD one cosmos
‘Papers Detail Industry’s Role in Cheney’s Energy Report’http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/17/AR2007071701987.html?hpid=topnews“In 2000, Lundquist was the Bush campaign’s energy expert; Bush nicknamed him “Light Bulb.”
Today, Lundquist is a lobbyist, and he has represented some of the companies who appeared before the task force, such as BP, Duke Energy and the American Petroleum Institute. He did not return phone calls for this article.”
RUSH was all excited with the announced capture of AlQuaeda # 2 the other day… TODAY, he said: “If they had any sense, they would waterboard him till he tells them what they want, and they if there’s anything left, send him to a vacation at Gitmo.”
LIMBAUGH FAVORS TORTURE!!!
The DR of Democracy, encourages Torture!!!
What an IDIOT!!!
Does anybody know if there is anyway in Wichita to find out who owns a property? That kind of info is public here in GA but maybe not in Kansas.. I dunno. The house where I came of age and lived most of my young life (214 S. Poplar) now sits abandoned and overgrown with weeds. I went by there this past weekend and it just looks horrible. I am just wondering if there is any way to find out who owns it. I might be interested if the price was right (like cheap since it needs so much work).
‘Teachers to Learn About Climate Change’http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070718/D8QF7MF00.html“FAIRBANKS, Alaska (AP) – School teachers from across Alaska are getting lessons this month at the University of Alaska Fairbanks so they can more effectively teach their students back home about climate change.”
(More at link)
You can write the Register of Deeds. I’m unsure if you can find that information out or not. Title searches usually have be done under the law and by purchase/buyer contract, I think.
http://www.sedgwickcounty.org/deeds/
Yes, Kev. Go to this link.
http://www.sedgwickcounty.org/realpropertyinfo/realproperty.html
Scroll down the right side to the hot link that says
Property Appraisal / Tax Information & Payment System
Follow the instructions from there.
Good luck.
Okay, Kev. I located that property. It shows the owners and appraised value.
You’re right. It’s not appraising for very much. Sq. footage is about 1200.
I can’t give the specifics here because I had to click on a confidentiality waiver to see the info–but it’s all there.
Good Luck Kev!!
Of all people to cry to the Eagle to have someone banned, how ironic that’s it’s Capn.
TO THE EDITOR OF THE WEBLOG:
If you indeed consider deleting posts and banning bosters, I encourage you to look at all posts.
In particular – CAPNAmerica.
There is no one more vulgar, insulting, obscene, then Capn. He’s contantly launching PERSONAL ATTACKS and discouraging open participation on this WEBlog.
Actually, I prefer that no one, not even Capn be censored.
But, if you chose to censor, I hope you do so fairly.
Just checking back in after a hard day at work and I see someone called Captain America talks about turning in someone or something called a troll. I don’t see any specific posts he finds “revolting” “insulting” “lies” or otherwise disrespectful to other posters.
I also didn’t see him in the thread for at least two hours before his CRYBABY post about turning someone in to the Gestapo.
Not sure if this guys elevator stops at the top floor, but I HOPE someone with common sense, and the ability to read, can review whatever Captain UNAmerica’s claims are – before rashly jumping on his band wagon.
His threats of lawsuits are empty, there is nothing illegal happening here – just good people posting their opinions.
Unfortunately, it appears Private UnAmerica, is not getting satisfaction with his posts or the responses he would like.
Therefore, people who disagree with his opinion are automatically subject to bannishment.
Sound like an American to you?
Be honest? Let the Eagle know.
If one can decide to ban another – then all are open for censorship.
And why? For posting views contrary to the UnAmerican?
Or because they insulted his silly paranoid mind?
Be honest. Everyone has views.
“Nacilbuper republicaN
“Hydra head number 101″
Posted by: CapnAmerica |
Hadn’t noticed that. The poor clown should find a life, shouldn’t he?
If he put out records, we could always play them backwards and hear stuff like “turn me on dead-man”… LOL … and I don’t do that often enough.
You’re absolutely right, Max.
Every post-er should be held to the same standard.
If my posts don’t meet the standards, I hope they are pulled.
Looks like a parade of nics coming out of hiding, to defend a troll…. Oy vey!!
You work second shift now, Half?? Hmmm
Just as a statement of the obvious, Half-Full is actually {completely Full} of it (you know what prefixes to attach).
Max–
Chill out, dude.
And speaking of the elevator not going all the way up, you might re-read what I posted AND WHAT I DIDN’T.
I never “threatened a lawsuit.” On the contrary, I told Republican nacilbupeR that there is NO GROUNDS for a lawsuit.
Get a grip.
CapN… if it wasnt so sad, it might be amusing… But, alas, I have to get some sleep… an early start tomorrow… I am working this weekend, and need to get a jump on it…
Chas, I am NOT a troll.
Are you trying to personally attack me, libel me, or to discourage the open use of this blog?
Watch out though… Troll has more cotton pickin nics than the 6 Faces of Eve!!
Good nite, good luck, and God bless… however you conceive God to be…
I didnt say ONE thing to you Ummmm “max”
Well then Chas, WHO are you writing to?
My goodness… your Ego is a little large, to make assumptions of somebody talking to you on an open Blog in a city of this size… Mercy!!
This guy Captain America is delusional. I am Eagle Beak.
I represent the
North American Bald EagleHaliaeetus leucocephalus
The vigilant bald eagle is found exclusively on the North American continent.
I also have posted asKaeb Elgae. Any mental genious would be smart enough to figure out that we are one in the same.
I am not republican and I would invite and encourage, the: EDITOR OF WEBLOG WICHITA EAGLE
to PLEASE look up my URL and internet IP and PLEASE post on this webpage so the maniac, and crazed Captain America knows, that we are not the particular poster REPUBLICAN.
You only need to this once. There are many of my fellow eagles on these webpages. We are many and numerous, sometimes spelled backward, sideways, or otherwise – BUT WE ARE HONEST POSTERS ONE AND ALL.
I am not the Republican, although I have laughed my hind quarters off over the last week reading the crazed posters herein who are more concerned about who is who, than the content of the posts.
BRING IT ON EDITOR.
WE WANT TO FINALLY REVEAL THE CAPTAIN AMERICA FOR WHO HE REALLY IS.
He also follows posters whom he disagrees with, and posts negative flaming posts to attempt to start controversy himself.
EAGLE: If you want to see who is starting the fights, you will notice a trend of Captain America in the middle of all of them.
Just follow other posters, and you will see, very few others are concerned about who is who in the zoo.
Waiting for electronic check anytime.
Energize when ready.
Just as a statement of the obvious, Half-Full is actually {completely Full} of it (you know what prefixes to attach).
Posted by: Steven Davis | July 18, 2007 at 11:16 PM
Interesting Steven Davis, I never have spoken to you, yet you start a name calling battle with me.
Yet I read your digest about how terrible the REPUBLICAN was and how you said HE was a trouble maker.
God loves you. I HOPE THE EAGLE IS WATCHING!!!
And you know what else, “max”??
Thats one of the nice things about a Blog… You dont have to write to ANYbody… You can just post…
Well, I guess I will toddle on off to bed…let you all talk together among your multiple personalities…
Yes, Chas, doesn’t bother me at all.
But, when some advocate censorship, some imply others are “A Troll”, and don’t always have the balls to address the “Troll” by its accused name, it makes others wonder if you might be referring to them.
Hmmm…..
So, can you answer the question? What troll are you writing to or about? You are committing libel to the troll.
Goodnight Eagle Beak, I agree with you often. Particularly about the UnAmerican Captain.
Ok, Chas, so you can’t answer my question.
Didn’t think you’d have the balls to name the one you accuse.
Can’t we all just join hands and sing Kum-Ba-Ya.
But I’m not holding the crazed Captain America’s hand. It’s dirty.
OK TROLL now you are stealing other peoples’ names!!! JUST STOP IT RIGHT NOW!!! GROW UP, AND GET A LIFE!!!! ITS BAD ENOUGH WE HAVE TO PUT UP WITH YOUR DAMN TROLL NICS, BUT WHEN YOU USE OTHER PEOPLE’S NAMES… YOU ARE THE LOWEST OF THE SICKOS — YOU SHOULD BE BANNED… AND ALL OF YOUR PERSONALITIES WITH YOU!!!
i DONT HAVE TO TALK TO YOU MAX… SEE I AM NOT INTIMIDATED BY YOU OR YOUR OTHER NAMES/NICS/CLOWNS…. IF YOU THINK ITS FUNNY, THEN SO BE IT…. I THINK IT IS SICK!!
BYE NOW… Y’ALL COME BACK NOW, HEAH???
Bunch of babies Captain America. Wanting to ban people.
I HOPE YOU DO REPORT SOMETHING.
Gosh only knows what. But I hope you do.
Whatcha gonna do?
“Ohh Eagle, everyone is OUT to get me!” “They are being trolls (whatever that means)”.
“I don’t know WHO, EVERYone” They are making up NAMES as they post.
THAT’S AGAINST THE LAW ISN’T IT???
CapN — The following is NOT something I posted…. I was OFF this line when this was posted here… Our favorite Nic stealer is at it again!!
“Goodnight Eagle Beak, I agree with you often. Particularly about the UnAmerican Captain.
Posted by: Chas | July 18, 2007 at 11:30 PM”
I am not using your name Chas.
Now Chas want’s to BAN people.
Bad terrible people who post under various disguises.
Eeewwww how evil!
Eeeewww how terrible!
Eeeeew how normal.
But wait. Let’s get real. What’s the content of the posts? Is it legit? Yes. Is it insulting? No. Is it just like anyone else posts?Yes.
So what’s the problem? Chas doesn’t like people to use more than ONE name. Egads!
HAH HAHAH AHH HA
Get a life Chas/Captain America
Same IP address
Guess I need to go back to doing something different…
Beak, you just crossed a big line claiming my IP is the same as the CapN…. THAT is easy to prove… NOW you left yourself open…. So, take whatever life deals you, you stupid SLOB!!!
Dear Ladies and Gentleman of the WE blog:
I have been an avid reader of the WE blog for several years now. I enjoy the back and forth banter of both sides. Recently, I have been noticing the antics of one person in particular, someone who likes to mess with some of you. I am a school teacher. Elementary school, specifically. When one of my students comes to me on the playground and tells me another student is messing with them, I always tell them to go somewhere else, ignore that person. In other words, get away from them or stay away from them. Now, I know that isn’t possible in this setting, but ignoring someone is. PLEASE, ignore this certain poster who only lives to “mess” with you. I realize it isn’t easy. Some of you say you will “walk on by”, but you don’t. You respond, you pay attention to him/her, and you give him/her exactly what they want. My advice is to totally ignore this person. Do not respond to anything they say. It won’t be easy, and it will take some time. But, as much as some of you complain about him/her, you give them energy when you “play” along. Quit playing with them!! Ignore them. PLEASE!! I’m beginning to lose interest in this blog, and it’s because most threads degenerate into name calling and trash talking. And you know there are lots of people like me, who enjoy just reading…Please ignore this person. Thank you for letting me get this off my chest. I really do enjoy the back and forth exchange of opinions…..I just can’t stand all the BS….all of you are above such nonsense….and I can honestly say that because I’ve been reading here longer than some of you have been posting. Again, thank you.
Respectfully,
Teacher
I’m quaking in my shoes Chas.
In fact, I want nothing to do with you. You have joined forces with the crybaby Captain America wanting to ban people.
That makes you suspect. Interesting, I know there are many on this blog who post under more than one name.
But none of it is against the law.
The problem is, you and Capt America have forgotten about posting comments, opinions, and real thoughts about the issues.
You are both so worried about who is who, and who is saying what – that you have forgotten the idea is for the blog to be a place for the free exchange of ideas on the issues of the day.
Too wrapped around the axle, as they say.
Go back and check my posts – I have not started any battles or called names (except the UnAmerican Private and related). But I do not have time for all that.
But you and it DID get my goat when you talk about banning someone for doing absolutely nothing wrong – but disagree.
And Capt America has many insulting posts on these blogs.
So the pot may in fact be calling the kettle black.
But all of your posts in the last two hours and his are:
A waste of ban width.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1089810025&n=2
Disagree…. steal other peoples’ names…. make homophobic, and racial, and sexual slurs, You call that disagree??? Your good buddy Republican can call somebody and his friends their “hitlerite butt buddies,” and thats just fine with you, huh???
Disagree is one thing… The personal attacks, and the attacks against the vocations people have chosen in life… THAT is NOT disagreement, and it is a violation of sensibilities….
Now, why dont you all just pick up all your toys, and clean your rooms, and go to bed, so you dont keep mommy and daddy awake….
It’s talking to itself.
Teacher, I respectfully disagree with your assertion that ignoring bullies make them go away. It didn’t work on the playground, and it doesn’t work on the blog. Just as we did choose to ignore that one poster, he quadrupled his names and posts, making it nearly impossible to write him out.
How do you know how many its there are? Four you say?
Great diversion attempt by political mom. Maybe she is it.
P-Mom… I dont think there is a solution to this dilemma… they cant be shamed… sort of like Islamic extremists… they feed on it…
Dear Political_Mom,
I understand your position. I know that if done correctly, and if one is patient, the bully can be reduced to insignificant status. It is not easy. It won’t happen quickly. But it can work. When the bully saw that you all were trying to ignore him, he chose a new tactic to see if you all would “bite”. You did. He won. I respect your feeling that it won’t work, but I respectfully submit that if you truly ignore him, and as hard as it is to do, stick to it, he will eventually move on. There will be no one for him to pester. And we all know he lives for the reactions he gets from some of you. Nothing good ever comes easy. Hang in there, all of you.
Respectfully,
Teacher
P-Mom, not to mention that it talks to itself as well… LOL
And yet another nic… Telling us how to get rid of the nic poster… Hmmmm sort of like BTK, I think….
Dear Chas,
I am truly sorry if I came across as someone who is “telling you” what to do. I can assure you that isn’t my intention. I simply observed what was going on and thought I would throw in my two cents worth. I am certainly not offended if you wish to ignore me or my advice. I am not this person with whom you have the problems, posting under another name. I just read here daily, and I am very tired of the constant trash talking that seems to erupt in every thread. I know this person changes names. The writing style alone gives him away. But, that is all beside the point. It just seemed to me that as much as you all despise this person, you still interact with him. I can’t speak for you, but I don’t interact with people I don’t like, or who prove themselves to be nothing more than someone who likes to pick fights. If you all truly mean it when you say “walk on by”, then by all means do it. When all of you, from both sides, stick to the topic of the thread, this can be a really interesting place to read and learn. Don’t you think?
Respectfully,
Teacher
If only it was that easy, Teacher.. You just come in and read… some of us like to exchange ideas… which is what the Blog is intended to do.. When disruptive individuals dont allow that to happen, it can be difficult to “walk on by” because what you are trying to say to someone else, is disrupted by inane, and sometimes expletive/deletive commentary from the “trolls”
Dear Chas,
You are right. It isn’t easy. But isn’t that what we teach our children to do? Ignore these types of people? Why can’t we, as adults, do what we want/expect our children to do, when confronted with similar situations? I know it seems as if I’m being simplistic, but it really is that simple. If only it weren’t so darned hard to do!! Believe me, I’ve sat here many nights reading some of this stuff, and I’ve wanted to go off on this person!!! But, that just gives them what they want….It IS simple…..and it IS hard….In a setting such as this, where words are typed, it ought to be easier to ignore the silliness…it’s not as if this person can interrupt or shout down what you say…..I’m sorry to be so bossy!!! Like I said earlier, this can be such an interesting place, and as you said, the exchange of ideas is what it is meant to be…..but some of you are so busy feeding this guy’s ego….can’t you see how counterproductive that is??? Thanks for your response……
Respectfully,
Teacher
You know, sometimes, if you ignore a bully long enough when they are a child, they grow up to shoot up Columbine… They out grow their need for recognition, and wont settle for less than control… If this Troll was a child, I would most likely agree with you totally… But this is an Adult…
We deal in more direct, and confrontational ways with Adult Bullies… Take those two Adult Bullies that disrupted the Worship Service at the big Lutheran Church out east… If those kind are not dealt with harshly, they will simply go to the next city, and do it again… or even go to another church in this city, and do it again…
No, this is not a child… This is an Adult Bully… Adult Bullies only know one language.. Lock them out of their arena and they have nowhere to put on their show…
Unfortunately, this Blog is not designed to allow that to happen, like some others are… We shall just have to wait and see what happens…
Even now, the Teacher is soaking up feelings of superiority over a Blogger, who is trying REAL hard to type with straight face, and react in a calm and rational manner…
Perhaps the best suggestion for the WEBlog is to just shut it down entirely… That would solve the disruption problems totally… Then those who like to be disruptive can go find a Blog where they might even be welcome doing such things… I have seen a few of those on the Internet…
Dear Chas,
Perhaps you are right. I guess when I stop and think about it, what I’m advocating is probably best suited for this type of interaction. And, to be fair, I do deal more with children than adults. I just thought that under these circumstances, in a blog setting, that maybe ignoring someone would work, as opposed to a “real life” setting, where physical presence would make doing so much more difficult. I certainly understand the frustration some of you feel towards this person. In a small way, I feel it too. I just wish something could be done, so this blog can achieve it’s purpose…..Thank you for your response.
Respectfully,
Teacher
Thanks for the info! I was looking on the City of Wichita for it- forgot it was under Sedgewick County even though I write checks to them!
Was the teacher IT?
Or is Chas IT? Who is IT?
Even now, the Teacher is soaking up feelings of superiority over a Blogger, who is trying REAL hard to type with straight face, and react in a calm and rational manner…
Posted by: chas. | July 19, 2007 at 01:17 AM
Disagree…. steal other peoples’ names…. make homophobic, and racial, and sexual slurs, You call that disagree??? Your good buddy Republican can call somebody and his friends their “hitlerite butt buddies,” and thats just fine with you, huh???
Disagree is one thing… The personal attacks, and the attacks
CHAS: This is where you got it wrong. You are paranoid.
First: I have never used: make homophobic, and racial, and sexual slurs. You are making claims that are totally false. You can take that to the bank, but I really don’t care what you think. But if the WEBLOG OWNER looks over my postings, that is what they will find.
You need to correct this false posting (I’d never expect an apology from you.).
Secondly: And this is the paranoid part – I have not a clue who your REPUBLICAN friend is. Zilch, Zip, Nada. He was posting long before I came on board. You are making an irrational assumption based upon nothing. But I can tell you this: IF THE OWNER OF THIS WEBSITE LOOKS, AS I SUGGESTED EARLIER TONIGHT: EAGLE BEAK AND REPUBLICAN ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON. I don’t even know him, but if he is republican, and you don’t like him, he must be good people.
You are really losing it Chas.
My word is my bond, and anyone who doubts it can review all my posts.
Chas needs to correct his false posting, or all his writings become suspect.
Posted by: chas. | July 18, 2007 at 11:53 PM
and it is a violation of sensibilities….
CHAS: you must admit, you set yourself up with these wild statements. You make me laugh.
I can almost hear the drum roll, the bugles blaring, the reporters lights flashing,
“and it is a violation of sensibilities…. ”
Followed by the audience singing God Bless America.
And the constitution of the United States according to Chas includes:
“and it is a violation of sensibilities….”
ROTFLMAO!!!
Posted by: Teacher | July 18, 2007 at 11:47 PM
When one of my students comes to me on the playground and tells me another student is messing with them, I always tell them to go somewhere else, ignore that person.
Gee Teach, looks like you didn’t follow your own advice. ;-)
And the Troll even makes up names, and talks to itself, ad infinitum, ad nauseum