Mark McCormick’s column today relates a shocking incident in which several bystanders in a Wichita convenience store ignored or actually stepped over a woman who had been stabbed in an altercation and was bleeding to death. One customer paused to take a picture of the victim with her cell phone. What they didn’t do was offer help or call police.
The woman later died at a hospital — in part, we’d say, from criminal neglect.
As Police Chief Norman Williams asked, “What happened to our respect for life?”
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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158 Comments
Bush has no respect for anyone
it trickles down
That’s just awful. I think they should be charged with a hate crime.
All those bystanders caught on tape should be charged. God, how horrible.
If we were in France the bystanders would be charged with a crime for not reporting the crime.
By liberal French
This is not a liberal/conservative issue. It is a humanity issue. How can amybody be so freaking cold?
In an ethics class I took several years ago we looked at why many could do something like this.
Two things that were presented as factors were the fact that we no longer look at our elderly as a source of knowledge and treat them with the respect due them.
The other was the fact that since the 70’s we have sanctioned murder against the most innocent among us by allowing thousands of abortions every year.
Leave I know this doesn’t line up with your thinking Bush did it but IMOHO you are way off track here.
Two things that were presented as factors were the fact that we no longer look at our elderly as a source of knowledge and treat them with the respect due them.
The other was the fact that since the 70’s we have sanctioned murder against the most innocent among us by allowing thousands of abortions every year.
Posted by: ksgrm | July 03, 2007 at 01:50 PM
While I disagree with Leave as to why, I have to equally disagree with you. What you state is plain BS. While I agree that people care less and less about others, it has little to do with abortion.
wow, I agree with LJ
it has NOTHING TO do with abortion
but the anti choice rabid few will pin it on anything
Germ is right. It is Tiller’s fault.
I think it is more to do with personal thought. They did not want to be the next target or victim
these gangs are out of control
BILL CLINTON! BILL CLINTON!!
I thought I’d throw that in before anyone else got to it.
hehe
I thought of that but didn’t do it
I think it is more to do with personal thought. They did not want to be the next target or victim
these gangs are out of control
Posted by: leave | July 03, 2007 at 02:05 PM
You could be right, but regardless, I could never be so cold. Even to a damn gang member.Shit, just step around or even continue shopping? Cold, beyond human cold. NumbPerhaps they just see so muchof it they just don;t care any more
Actually, there are social psychology findings that if a number of people observe a crime in process, there is a Kitty Genovese effect – whereby as more bystanders increase the less likely anyone will offer to help. It is also called the “bystander effect” and happens because of a diffusion of responsibilty – individuals think “someone else here will take care of this problem.”
http://www.pineforge.com/newman6study/resources/latane1.htm
I agree, I would try to do something, but then I am not versed in the gang code, so I would probably have been the next victim.
these kids have “rules” and “codes of conduct” and they are rigid with them.
I have witnessed it up close in the charity work I do. Some are so hard by age 10 that it scares the bejesus out of me
These pathetic RTL’s will try and turn any and every thread into a soapbox for their single issue mentality. Reminds me of a former friend, that became an Amway Rep., would turn every comment someone made into a sales pitch. Notice I said former friend, he alienated himself from everyone except the like minded.
they are becoming obsolete and that scares them
Who said the bystanders were kids? From what I heard, they were mostly Boomers were well into their late middle ages and a couple teens
to me they are all kids
Violence and war can destroy respect for life.
What will these two (around 8-years old) kids do as adults? How many other kids are there like them?
‘Picture Worth a Thousand Words Dept.: Iraqi Kids Enact Hostage Execution’http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003606670
What I meant by the post and it was a unanimous in our class was a disregard for life had left most of us callused. When we place different values on something we cherish it less. That is a fact not an opinion. When your new car becomes old you don’t treat it as nice as you once did.
Not trying to blame it on abortion. Just explaining how the discussion evolved.
This apathy could also be because no one took charge. In all of my CPR classes we were told that the first thing we did on an accident scene, even before trying to admin cpr was to appoint A person to call 911. Actually look at them, point to them and say “you call 911″. This brings them back to reality and some action is taken. But the taking pics and stepping over her – who could account for that.
“he alienated himself from everyone except the like minded.”
Like cosmo? Or ed?
oh ksgram…nice way to back off the abortion shite you tried to start.
but I agree someone should have taken charge
however, in gang related incidents, no one wants to become the next target
Might have taken the picture to sell to the media. There’s no excuse for not calling in for help, even if they didn’t do it until they left. People are afraid to get involved, if they witness the crime, they’d have to testify, putting themselves and family at risk.
People are afraid to get involved, if they witness the crime, they’d have to testify, putting themselves and family at risk.
Posted by: The Phantom | July 03, 2007 at 03:20 PM
Saddest statement of the day. ANd I mean no sarcasm.
thats what I said.
they don’t want the bullseye on them or their family
Gangs are all about retaliation and that is what they were all afraid of
LeaveYou blamed it on Bush.
You and the other libs hardly have room to talk when someone points out that society has less respect for life these days.
Anyway, this is cowardice.
Lets call it what it is: These people are cowards! Negligent Homicide seems to be the charge I would first want to explore.
Kansas has a “Good Samaritan” law. No CRIMINAL harm or CIVIL liablity was would come to anyone who DID have the guts to act, in this situation.
LeaveYou blamed it on Bush.
You and the other libs hardly have room to talk when someone points out that society has less respect for life these days.
Anyway, this is cowardice.
Lets call it what it is: Cowardice! These people are cowards! Negligent Homicide seems to be the charge I would first want to explore.
Kansas has a “Good Samaritan” law. No CRIMINAL harm or CIVIL liablity was would come to anyone who DID have the guts to act, in this situation.
Personally I think it has a lot to do with the lack of a close knit community anymore. We have become so wrapped up in our own little worlds that many people do not even know their neighbors. It’s the anonymity (sp?) that makes it so easy for some people to step over a dying woman instead of calling for help.
This brought to mind the final of episode of Seinfeld though, when all of them were convicted of not helping under the Good Samaritan Law. Just thought I’d throw that out there.
I imagine there were some that weren’t afraid of anything. they just didn;t give a damn. If I were that afraid, i would have left, instead of just stepping over the dying person. I would have gotten the hell out of there.
Also, people keep bitching about gangs and needingt to put a stop to them, and yet NO ONE did anything about this.
TDTI thought of Seinfeld, as well. Good point.
LJ – Even if you got the hell out of there, I would think as you were peeling out that you would dial 911 and at least report the stabbing.
TBT-Yes I would have. I just do not understand this at all. :(
No, me neither.
And actually, according to WPD, this woman was NOT gang affiliated, although they have reason to believe her attackers may have been… I am pretty sure she was on the list they posted yesterday of deaths of non-gang members perpetrated by gang members…
Either way, it is disgusting… and if you have the presence of mind to stop and take a picture of a woman dying on the floor, then you certainly have the presence of mind to call 911 or stop and help… It’s a sad commentary on society today, is what it is…
“It’s a sad commentary on society today, is what it is…”
Why condemn the entire society?
The people in the store were wrong.
Their names and pictures should be published in the Eagle.
They should live in shame, even if no charges can be filed against them
I like your idea Paul. Maybe their mothers would see it and give them a whooping. (yes I know that there were some baby boomers there, but it sounds like they could still use a swift kick to the a$$)
I guess I will be the lone voice of dissent. While the actions of the people in the store may be callous, nobody should be required to get involved or render aid if they choose not to. I for one would call 911, but only as an anonymous bystander from a pay phone, I would not want the police or courts to have the information that they would need to force me to testify or otherwise get involved past the original phone call.
I definately do not go out of my way to get in other people’s business and have zero interest in helping the police do anything.
animals
“The people in the store were wrong.Their names and pictures should be published in the Eagle.They should live in shame, even if no charges can be filed against themPosted by: Econ101 | July 03, 2007 at 04:01 PM ”
Because the made a decision that your or I would not have made, you would want their lives ruined?And you presumably would have done something different because you are of better character, eh?
Scott, your attitude is part of why our country is in the sorry shape it’s in…apathetic, non caring, no compassion or empathy… just looking out for #1 and to hell with others.This attitude permeates every aspect of our society…how sad.
You are not alone in your voice of dissent Scott. I do not think they should have any OBLIGATION to do anything. I do not want to live in some sort of nanny state where we all of our actions are based on some sort of requirement.
Scott and Brian, I wonder if you were hurt and needed help you’d expect someone to assist you, or would yuou understand if they just stepped over your body and went on about their business?For God’s sake, how much effort does it take to call 911?You’re both pathetic.
To those that would have done little or nothing – a good citizen will step up, not hide in the shadows. That is what all should do at anytime they are faced with a similar situation.
Fear is not a good reason to stand down.
It doesn’t take courage or a .357 to do the right thing – it just takes a willingness to care for your fellow man – black or white, gay or straight, male or female.
Do the god damned right thing or forfeit your status as a citizen.
Gangs or no gangs – show some willingness to reach out to your fellow citizens.
You may need them one day.
Was anyone on this blog there? How can you even attempt to judge those people’s actions without being in their exact circumstances?
Something about judge not, yada yada yada comes to mind here.
I’ve stepped up to the plate on numerous ocasions and I have no doubt what-so-ever that I would have helped. I quit being afraid of people a long time ago. It must suck to be you, Brian.
F you MaryTry to read and think before you type.
I certainly would like to think that I would have done something different than those people. I like to think I would have helped in some way, any way. However it is both ignorant and callous to criticize or pass judgment on those people without the ability to have been in their shoes – and none of us can do that.
I am really shocked at the type of comments some of you people post on here:“All those bystanders caught on tape should be charged. God, how horrible.Posted by: littlejohn | July 03, 2007 at 01:41 PM “
“Lets call it what it is: These people are cowards! Negligent Homicide seems to be the charge I would first want to explore.Posted by: Econ101 | July 03, 2007 at 03:33 PM “
Seriously, what kind of kind, compassionate, Christian comments are These? And yet you want to condemn those bystanders. Now that is disgusting.
It appears that a lot of you cherish freedom, but don’t seem to understand exactly what it is.
While you are free to be a kind, caring, upstanding citizen, I have the freedom to be an apathetic jerk.
And as much as I might like to think that someone would help me if I needed it, I would not have an expectation that they should or feel that the government has the right to force them.
brian,
First of, the verse says judgde not LEST YE BE JUDGED.
I am fully willing to be held accountable to the standard of expecting someone to help.
Learn how to read scripture.
You don’t have to be standing in someones shoes to be watching them do something which is appalling.
I don’t think you should HAVE to do anything.
I do think if you don’t choose to help, it says quite a bit about the lack of character and intestinal fortitude you have.
I don’t think anyone here is saying you have to try to stand up to some gang.
However, taking pictures? Walking over the body? Not rendering aid? Not calling for help?
That kind of attitude demands questioning and ridicule.
So you all think those people should have been required to call 911, am I understanding that correct?
“First of, the verse says judgde not LEST YE BE JUDGED.
I am fully willing to be held accountable to the standard of expecting someone to help.
Learn how to read scripture.”
Nathan,While I appreciate your advice on learning to read scripture, I am proficient.For those of us that are not Bible literalists, there is more than one way to ‘read scripture’.
Why don’t you put yourself in the victim’s shoes, Brian? How do you think it felt to have people stepping over you and taking pictures of your suffering? What if it was your child laying there and no one would put themselves out to even make a freakin’ phone call??I would certainly be judging others if I was the one laying on the floor.
So you consider yourself a Christian, Brian? Now that’s funny!
Brian,
Of course brian…. of course….
When you completely take something out of context and try to use it against people here to make a point… that is one way to read the scripture.
Perhaps, accurately and honestly should have been my choice of wording…
Mary,I don’t think I have ever said what I consider myself, and it does not matter within the scope of this blog topic.
How would it be funny if I did consider myself Christian? Reread all of my comments. I have not condoned the actions of anyone. In fact, I did say “I certainly would like to think that I would have done something different than those people.”
Mary,
It is tragic that not only do people not care about someone who is dying in front of them to AT LEAST call 911, but then we have to be chastized by others here for thinking those people should have helped.
No, Nathan, nothing was taken out of context.
Do you seriously think that scripture verse ONLY means that if you say would be willing be measured by a particular standard then you yourself are free to judge others by that standard?
There’s nothhng wrong with expecting people to do the right thing, Brian.Maybe we should hold people accountable more than we do. It seems like the unwillingness to get involved is why we have so many problems. This is just one example.
“be chastized by others here for thinking those people should have helped.
Posted by: Nathan | July 03, 2007 at 06:42 PM”
No, you are being chastized (by me at least) for thinking ill of the people that did nothing.
Mary, I would agree with that.However, your statement “There’s nothhng wrong with expecting people to do the right thing” is very different from what many others have said here.
It is kind of a hate the sin not the sinner thing.
Do I think those people should have helped and would have expected them to help? DefinitelyAre those people bad for not helping, should they be punished? Definitely Not
I generally hate to split hairs on things, but I think there is a very distinct and important difference.
Sorry, but I “think ill” of those that didn’t help, and I’ll judge them accordingly, especially the woman who took pictures and then posted them on the net. No excuses.
To each their own Mary.
I will give them the proverbial other cheek (benefit of the doubt in this case) and continue thinking they are good people.Whether they have excuses or not is no concern of mine as I am not here to judge them.
Well, I am. They’re heartless and they should be ashamed of themselves.
People are afraid to be responsible because of the abuse of accountability in our recent history as a society, afraid to be a Good Samaritan.Please understand that it does no harm to be a Good Samaritan.I have done it a numerous times and I never been drag into a courtroom to have to testify the facts of just calling 911.Unless you are a member of the parties involved or the only witness to the event the most of what happens is the 911 dispatch ask for your name and address and if you want a police officer to contact you.Further investigations would be a detective requesting an interview with you to talk more on what happen.Where any fear comes from is not from the police dept. but a letter from an ambulance chaser.
Ok. I’ll say it. Is this the same community where the police have a hard time getting witnesses to talk? Isn’t this the same store that sold tiny vases of tiny flowers that could be used for crack pipes? I am as perplexed as the next as to what is going on.
“Whether they have excuses or not is no concern of mine as I am not here to judge them.”
Hogwash. Judge away and the judging will be/is harsh.
Nothing wrong with judging people for being assholes. I can’t imagine how the victim’s family must feel. It’s just too sad.
That’s just awful. I think they should be charged with a hate crime.
Posted by: fleettwood | July 03, 2007 at 01:35 PM====================================Hate crime? It was a black on black crime and my guess is that the cowards walking over the victim and taking pictures were black too.
“Hate crime?”
Yes. Black on Black has nothing to do with it. Obviously, the ones who walked over the body hated her. The one who stabbed her hated her. Sounds like hate to me. Isn’t that a hate crime?
Brian-
NO we don’t need a nanny state, but that’s what you get when individuals don;t help their citizens. The people that callously stepped over her, took a fricking picture, etc, without calling 911 are nothing but heartless jackasses, and if you don;t like the way I judge people fine. People not helping [people in that degree of stressof nothing but animals.
“took a fricking picture”
lj– A little less cussing, a little more substance (and now, I will do what I don’t do) :)I am not an e-moticon kind of guy
Brian
I have been to court dozens of times as a witness against criminals.I am a former EMT.
These cowards made a BAD decision, and they should be held accountable.
I agree. I went toe to toe once with a man who pulled his child out of a car by the hair. I put myself into a situation where I could easily been assaulted, but I’d have taken a punch rather than let him continue to abuse his little boy. Getting hurt never even crossed my mind until it was over. The idea that I shouldn’t get involved was never an option for me.
1) There is no LEGAL duty to assist.
2) There IS a human duty to assist, however. Decent human beings do what they reasonably can to assist. Many do so without thinking of themselves first. I wasn’t there, but I think I’d help. I have many times stopped to assist motorists, etc.
Were there no decent human beings there?
Oh, BTW Scott: re your 5:40 post.
“I for one would call 911, but only as an anonymous bystander from a pay phone, I would not want the police or courts to have the information that they would need to force me to testify or otherwise get involved past the original phone call.
I definately do not go out of my way to get in other people’s business and have zero interest in helping the police do anything.”
I’ll call this what it is: gutless. God forbid your pathetic life would be interrupted by doing the right thing. You’re probably the first to complain when police don’t live up to your standards,yet you proclaim you “have zero interest in helping the police do anything.”
See any problems there?
MEN stand up and are counted; they are witnesses when being a witness is called for; they assist, when they can, when assistance is called for. They realize that there is a world beyond themselves that they are a part of, and take responsibility for playing their part in it.
So MAN up, Scott. You might like it.
Leave it to some right-wing whacko to relate this cold-heartedness of strangers to our allowing abortion in our country.
Geesh….grow up and smell the coffee. People are generally ruder now than in the 70’s, 80’s or 90’s.
As for making the case to blame our tolerance of abortion, I can also make the case that our rudeness relates to the lack of church leaders who are actually doing the work of God. So many churches today are simply social clubs for the elite. There are too many churches building their huge monuments to themselves. They pick on the homosexual community as the big bad boogeyman coming to get every man, woman and child.
Really, people, my case relating people’s lack of concern for their fellow human being hurt and lying on the ground to these so-called churches in name only makes as much as sense as your case relating it to our tolerance of abortion since the 70’s.
And you might want to throw in the Republicans rise to power in 1994 with their Contract ON America – now there was a heartless, ruthless and cold bunch.
“1) There is no LEGAL duty to assist.”
Is this a State law type thing? I’ve always assumed that one HAS to do something (even if it’s wrong). Otherwise it’s negligence or some other thing. For instance, if you come upon a traffic accident and drive on, isn’t that chargable?
Hey fleetwood-
:-)
Just dropping in from time to time.
ALthough I stated that the bystanders should be charged, I am uncertain as to whether or not in this state anyone has a DUTY to act. Afte thinking about it, I think no specific “crime” can be charged, but something could be found. THere always is if someone really wants to.So, they might have acted legally, I am uncertain. But their callousness and cold heartedness certainly shows their disregard for humanity.
lj-
There is no criminal statute with a penalty for failing to assist. The only one which might apply is leaving the scene of an accident and failing to assist if you are involved in an accident, but that only applies to those involved in the accident, not bystanders.
In torts, generally, there is no duty to assist. I’ll leave it to the civil guy, Vaughn, to flesh that out.
So the long and short of it is there is no duty to assist.
But MEN do so, when they can. Decent human beings do so, when they can. Failure to do so, in most cases, is attributable to either extreme self-centeredness or cowardice.
To find out what happened to respect for human life, look in George Tiller’s abortion mill incinerator, or ask Terri Schiavo’s parents.Planned Parenthood abortion mills reported ZERO adoption referrals last year, although assistance with the adoption option to minors is required by Kansas law. You can find out why Planned Parenthood refused to refer adoptions by looking at the profits in their financial report last year.There are hundreds of thousands of couples waiting years to adopt. There are no unwanted babies.
Drive the streets lately? The old, “Hi neighbor” mentality has deserted greater Wichita. It’s every car for itself; just get outta my way and don’t stop me. I grew up with that on the freeways of California, so it doesn’t bother me.
But step over an injured person? Take a picture? I would say wrong place, wrong time, and tell myself to bypass that area at all costs. Those people are scumbags and certainly don’t deserve the moniker “human.”
Hell, I’ll bet they’re on welfare, don’t vote, got six kids by six men (boys), and got butts big enough to park a semi in. Their mama was so big, the Wranglers use her as a practice field. One of their papas was so ugly, the fire department kept getting called out because people though his head was burnt up. They were so ugly when they were born, the doctor slapped the mother, the father, the nurse, and the daughter . . . twice.
“There is no criminal statute with a penalty for failing to assist.”
This a tricky one. Being a Libertarian type, it would seem to be OK. “Failing to assist” could run into much goverment trouble. There has to be something here. Failure to report a crime? Something! If the goverment can ratchet up something against some poor innocent bastard, surely, Shirley, they can do something about this.The more important part is to have the neighborhood do something. Perhaps the same activists who were lauded for getting the law passed, using this same store, for selling drug paraphanalia. (I thought they were going after the wrong source, but, oh well).OK, I’ll say it.The newspaper would like us to believe that the murder rate is a city-wide problem. It is not. There are parts of this city where it is a problem, but it is not city wide.There are people who don’t live here who believe that this whole town is danger. Coming here is to put your life on the line. We who live here know that is not true.It is not a city wide problem.Please, begin your attacks.
I read about this from my office in Sydney, Australia. I think that this is absolutely appalling. Those who failed to give assistance should be charged or publicly censured
“I read about this from my office in Sydney, Australia”
You didn’t say crikey. Even once.I think you must be lieing.
What I don’t get is how you people that are saying those bystanders should be held accountable and should be charged with something are the same ones whose party supposedly represents less government. You are the same ones that bitch about the government baby-sitting people, welfare state, all the crap like that. But now you want the government involved More?You can’t have it both ways (at least not with a straight face I hope)
“…should be charged with something are the same ones whose party supposedly represents less government.”
Somehow, you missed the personal responsibility part of the Repub platform.Would you, as a fine rep of the Libs, give these people a pass?I didn’t think so, but a dig at the Right Thinking Party does feel good.I’m Jim Rome. Good Night Now!
I would give them a pass because I don’t want the government telling me what to do. I do not want the government trying to define when I have a responsibility to ‘do something’ anymore than it does already. Do you?You nailed it when you said Personal responsibility. They had a personal decision to make. However they made it, they made it. How is it the government’s job to second guess that?
brianYour logic is very twisted.These people were wrong.Public censure, by exposing them for the low lifes they are, would be the minimum price a just and decent society would make them pay.It is the LACK of community spirit and personal responsibility, shown by these cowards (or sociopaths) that invites more government.This whole even is a damning statement against the ghetto culture and is a wake up call to the rest of us.
“However they made it, they made it. How is it the government’s job to second guess that?”
I couldn’t stand it. The Goverment has a very few responibilities. One of them is to keep order. And, no, I don’t want the Goverment to be in my life. This is different. You have proven yourself to be a poor adversary.I enjoy a good debate. You are not it.
I do not appreciate the personal attack fleetwood. Put up or shut up.
So which things should one be responsible for?If you see someone next to the road standing next to their car, should it be a crime to drive by?Maybe they are having a health problem.
If you see someone in a convenience store staring blankly at the soda fountain, do you have a responsibilty to check on them? They may be having a stroke or minor seizure.
If you see an older person walking along the sidewalk at 7am must you stop and check on them? They may be have Alzheimers and need assistance.
I know none of these are as severe or obvious as the woman in this newstory, but all have the same basis. Someone is in need of help. You should recognize it an do something. But should the government require you to? Do you want the law to try to draw a distinction between the things I have presented as examples and the woman in this newsstory?
“I do not appreciate the personal attack fleetwood.”
Your answer was silly. I lashed out. Shake Shake”I know none of these are as severe or obvious”
And you did that on purpose, knowing that if you would use an example (like the one at the store) you would have nothing to stand on. Why not use examples of things that are obviously not equal? That tactic is called something in debate, but I don’t know what it is. I think it’s called stinky logic. I want the Goverment out of my life. “Leave me alone” is a good philosophy.Now, if you will excuse me, I have a date with a PlayStation2, Gods of War. Ever played it? It’s my first time. I hope it doesn’t suck. Supposed to be a good game.
Its Hillary’s fault
One thing I know for a FACT- if I were there, I’d have been attempting to help. Don’t tell me that I don’t know because I wasn’t there.
Obviously people felt safe enough to stay there. It really is disgusting.
Another editorial by McCormick on this issue today..I hope it resonates within the African American community and as well of the rest of us. We all need to take a good hard look at ourselves and question our commitment to others and our purpose in this world.We can make the world a better place if we choose to, but it takes getting out of our comfort zone and giving of ourselves. Self sacrifice…don’t hear that word too much these days, do we?
I fear that nothing will ever resonate with the African American community. They have been told by jesse, al and gulity white libs for decades that they are entitled to everything and responsible for nothing. Sadly, most blacks today are sociopaths, nothing more.
“Sadly, most blacks today are sociopaths, nothing more.”
You are one sick, sad racist, Mr. Slaughter.
You must not interact much with the blach community, Slaughter. Most black kids aren’t sociopaths. I’m white and I feel safer going into that community than I do going into downtown Wichita where all the homeless, transients, sexual predators, and druggies hang out (by the way, go downtown and you’ll see most in that subsulture is white).I have more than a few black patients that I have taken care of for years, and I feel perfectly comfortable going into their neighborhood and their homes.It’s true that what we don’t understand, we fear; and what we fear, we hate. Open your world a little, Sgt, and you might also open your eyes.
Please, WS, don’t drone on about racism. Let’s hear some analysis, or some possible solutions.
Segregation didn’t work, forced integration hasn’t worked, trillions wasted on social programs have not made things better, so what will?
And end to racism and racists like you, Mr. Slaughter.
Hysterics, personal attacks and utopian wishful thinking ain’t gonna cut it, try harder.
“utopian wishful thinking”
What is Utopian about an end to racism? Open that barricaded door to your mind and see what is going on with the younger generation, Mr. Slaughter. There is much, much more interaction between the races than there ever has been. Racism among those 15-25 years old is a fraction of what it was thirty years ago.
My twenty year old son’s best friend is black. I didn’t know it until he came over to visit one day. It never occurred to my son to mention it.
Why?
Because it meant nothing to him and he knew that it would mean nothing to me.
The times are changing. The old racists are dying off and the younger generations did not carry the “torch” for them.
Thank God.
I want an end to racism.
I see no other way to make Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton shut up.
For once I agree with WS. Things are SO much better today. We’ve still gotta ways to go, but we’re making good progress. People like Sgt are the minority today, thank God.
You live in Wichita, home of baby killing George Tiller and his law firm of Rebenstorf and Foulston. You write for the newspaper that pimps for and protects his activities and you have the gall to talk about respect for life. Please!
You, your newspaper and Wichita are home to the worst elements of the American holocaust and you wonder about such calloused behavior? You’re the author of it, baby killer.
Mary Caruso, thanks for directing us to McCormick column today. I just read it and see two major topics. 1. The ‘Stop Snitching’ campaign and callousness of some people today and 2. the prospect of some sort of Good Samaritan law or tort.
I am not a racist and I have enjoyed the company of woman of all races. The end of racism would be a rine goal but that is about as likely as sunni, shia, and kurds in Iraq haveing a group hug and governing together in a secular western democracy.
I disagree that things are getting better, I see increasing animosity between the races. Don’t be shocked if you see illegals, gang memebers and ragheads herded into camps in the very near future.
Release the tape,identifying by name the people on the video so the whole country will know who this trash is.
I suspect even that wouldn’t embarrass the scum on that video. It would be cute though to see either Jesse or Al come to Wichita to talk about these pigs and the culture they live in.
1.I do not understand the Stop Snitchin campaign in the black community. A quick websearch led to much information about this. I do not get how such a strong minded group of people an be intimidated by a few people like this.The only thing that comes to mind is the absence of a leader to unite the black communities against ignorant fear tactics like this. There are so many conflicting messages presented that it often takes a leader to step up an rally the people toward a common cause.Where are those people in the black community today?
Great idea, Ben…Those guys would be here in a heartbeat if it was white people stepping over and/or taking pictures of a dying black woman. Why should this behavior get a pass from them just because all the participants were black? It’s just this sort of apathy and indiffernce that they should be confronting, no matter the race of those involved.
You’re right Brian, there are many black doctors, lawyers, ministers, politicians, and other professionals in Wichita that should be taking more of a leadership role in the community to address and confront issues like this one. Where are they?
2.As I explained in my post at July 04, 2007 at 12:25 AM, there are ramifications of a Good Sam law beyond this newsstory.
It is quite obvious to us that if you see a person laying on the ground hurt and bleeding you should at very least call 911. But to make failure to do this a punishable in criminal or civil court is something different. That would open to the door to so many unintended (hopefully) consequences.
How would the courts define a person’s due diligence in something like this? Would those people been simply required to call 911 immediately? What if they had no cell phone, and the victim was not in a store that presumable had an immediately accessible phone, would they still be at fault? Should they be required to try to apply basis first aid? What if they had not been trained in first aid and were exposed to blood borne pathogens by attempting to do so?
It is kind of scary that the only response by so many people is that those bystanders should be punished, without thinking it through. I certainly am appalled by their coldness, but I do not think I could in clear conscience find them punishable for their failure to act.
“Those guys would be here in a heartbeat if it was white people stepping over and/or taking pictures of a dying black woman”
Unfortunately, that is so true. I can only imagine that backlash that would cause.
There is such hypocrisy by the Jesse Jacksons, Al Sharptons and their ilk that the good things try to do are overshadowed by the things they do not do when there is no white-on-black situation
They both are poor representations for the black community. African Americans desperately needs real leaders, not just showmen who breeze into town for photo ops whenever there’s an unfortunate event that feeds their own political agendas. They sold out and lost touch of the real issues long ago. They’re only interested in publicity and themselves.
There are hundreds of thousands of couples waiting years to adopt. There are no unwanted babies.
Posted by: parkay
There are hundreds of kids (not many babies) waiting to be adopted right here in Kansas. If the anti-abortion group actually believed in their cause – then there would not be one single unwanted kid in Kansas waiting to be adopted.
It’s time your anti-abortion group put their money where the mouth is. Adopt all kids, not just babies, and then maybe your little terrorist group would get some positive recognition.
I think the worst form of racism in this country today is the racism of low expectations, and it is often self-inflicted on the black community by charlatans like Sharpton and Jackson.
Would you want to live in a neighborhood with pigs like these? Would you want to live in a neighborhood where there was a campaign to discourage people from “snitching” on criminals? Would you want to live in a neighborhood where violence was treated so cavalierly?
As long as such conduct is tolerated and even promoted in the black community only a fool, of any color, would want to live in such an environment.
Part of the problem with many of the children that are not adopted is that they are the victims of their mother’s drug and alcohol abuse. they are a danger to themselves and any family they might be put with. It is unreasonable to expect someone to inflict such monsters on an unsuspecting family.
Instead, we need to stop subsidizing the human garbage who spew out these monsters and then leave them for society to take care of.
Read the transcript of the Carr brothers sentencing trial as their formative years are explained in detail. It should be standard reading for any legislator who continues to vote to pay the scum of society to produce more children and in the process create such a heavy burden on responsible parents that they can’t responsibly afford another child.
Yet another crime liberalism has inflicted on children.
“Yet another crime liberalism has inflicted on children.”
So the crimes of the Carr Brothers are the fault of liberals? What happened to the Republicans being the Party of Personal Responsibility and all that?
Maybe Jonathan and Reginald can use that defense for an appeal – it’s all the Liberals fault!
Yeah, right.
Read the transcript. It’s one of the most compelling condemnations of the welfare state you’ll ever read and yet we continue to pay the crack addicts, the lazy and the useless to reproduce our next generation while hardworking Americans of all creeds and colors limit their families so they can afford to pay their ever increasing taxes.
Maybe if we didn’t allow society’s parasites to have such a free ride we wouldn’t have to import so many people to replace them. How about that as a first step to comprehensive welfare reform?
Sorry, it should have read “comprehensive immigration reform”, comprehensive welfare being a first step in the process. Make our own citizens work for a living and they won’t appreciate it if someone sneaks across the border to take their jobs.
TDT and Econ101: yes, a version of the final Seinfeld episode in Wichita:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Finale_(Seinfeld_episode)
“they witness an overweight man getting carjacked at gunpoint. Instead of helping him, they crack jokes about his size while Kramer films it all on his camcorder, then they proceed to walk away”
I’ve only skimmed the posts upthread, so if this is repetitiously redundant, I apologize.
First, there is no statute that requires the others observing the same to report any possible crime. Second, there is no obligation under Kansas law for one person to come to the aid of another, with the possible exception of stopping at a traffic accident. In fact, taking civil liability into account, one who does something wrong in a negligent way in offering aid to an injured person may have liability to that person for injury caused, absent a statute or other legal principle which provides a shield from such liability.
I am troubled by the inaction or action of the others at this very tragic incident. From a strictly legal perspective, however, they did nothing wrong, and in the case of civil liability, ensured they would not be the subject of a later damage action for something attempted which didn’t work.
Yes, at a minimum, Kansas needs a universal “Good Samaritan” statute. I understand there is a limited one covering medical professionals rendering aid at a traffic accident. This needs to be extended to all, in all circumstances. I would not object to a statute making the failure to report an alleged crime a crime in and of itself.
Vaughn-Doesn;t Kanss have a law called the “reasonable man act” where a person rendering aid, if acting as most reasonable men would in the same situation, cannot be held liable for aid that turns out to be harmful?
I would not object to a statute making the failure to report an alleged crime a crime in and of itself.Posted by: Vaughn Tolle | July 05, 2007 at 08:39 AM
Vaughn,
I can see no end to the trouble laws like that could create. What kinds of crimes must be reported? What are the penalties for failure to report? How does one know they’re actually witnessing a crime (not a silly question, when you consider all the different things that are considered “criminal offenses”). Are there penalties for false reporting, are there indemnifications for mistaken reporting? What if there’s no actual crime being committed, but the person reporting is shielded by the reporting “requirement”?
I see this kind of statute as being an invitation for abuse. By neighbors who hate you, by law enforcement who selectively enforce it, by anyone on a witch-hunt looking for an issue to hang an opponent with. A very bad idea, IMO.
Tom-
I am all for not passing more laws, but, this is behavior well past the norm, well past anything decently human, and needs to be addressed. Perhaps a qualifying statement such as “resulting in the death of another person” could be added.
Tom, you’re right. My shorthand comment above presumed all these factors as a part of the law. I can see the potential for abuse, thus perhaps the reason why there isn’t such a statute. Would your opinion be different if the statute was narrowly focused, i.e., ag assault, robbery, as opposed to any potential criminal act?
LJ, the “reasonable man” standard is applicable in all issues involving simple negligence. Thus, for example, would a person of similar training, aptitude, etc., have applied the tourniquet under the situation where such application was the wrong thing to do (as an example)?
Thanks Vaughn. That is what I recall. WOuldn;t that apply to a layperson as well? As an example, it is nearly always medically wrong to assist a person, or to drag a person, out of their car after a serious auto accident. Yet, nearly everyone will do that very thing. Should that aciton result in damage, is it your position that that is actionable?In your example, a touniquet is almost always the wrong thing to day, yet millions have taken red cross training that says or used to say otherwise. Thus, I would think the “reasonable man” standard would apply, would it not?
Thanks Vaughn. That is what I recall. WOuldn;t that apply to a layperson as well? As an example, it is nearly always medically wrong to assist a person, or to drag a person, out of their car after a serious auto accident. Yet, nearly everyone will do that very thing. Should that aciton result in damage, is it your position that that is actionable?In your example, a touniquet is almost always the wrong thing to day, yet millions have taken red cross training that says or used to say otherwise. Thus, I would think the “reasonable man” standard would apply, would it not?
sorry for the double post. My bad
Littlejohn & Vaughn,
I agree with you that the behavior this blog thread references was beyond the bounds of human decency.
But I don’t think passing new criminal laws targeting innocent bystanders is the answer. We’d literally be criminalizing people for being in the wrong place at the wrong time; this would also open them up to civil liability. Trial lawyers everywhere would love you, but…should someone lose their freedom, their house and life savings because they didn’t dial 911 fast enough to satisfy a jury?
But I don’t think passing new criminal laws targeting innocent bystanders is the answer
Posted by: Tom | July 05, 2007 at 09:25 AM
There lies the difference. Stepping over somebody to continue shopping, or to pay at the counte,or taking a cell phone picture removes you from the”innocent bystander” category. You are part and parcel why the woman died.However, i would agree that it would be a boon to trial lawyers, etc. and may be a bad idea
Perspective I would say. Stepping over a dead woman’s body or flying over a nation like Darfur with hundreds of thousands of dead.
Your point?
Outrage over the death of one local woman is normal.
Lack of outrage over several hundred thousand deaths is abnormal.
1. Change the subject. “It’s not about what’s happening in Wichita, it’s about Darfur!”
2. Stuff the straw man: “You’re not outraged about the Darfur genocide!!!”
3…the attack is missing, so far. So either the troll will post its attack shortly, or will see that it’s been exposed for what it is and will wander off to some other thread.
As Police Chief Norman Williams asked, “What happened to our respect for life?”Posted by Randy Scholfield
Bingo.
3. “If you refuse to talk about Darfur, you have no respect for life!”
Actually, LJ, the action to remove an injured person from a vehicle damaged in an accident absent immediate threat of fire, explosion, etc., would expose the person doing the removing to potential civil liability. The reasonable man standard applies to all, the difference in application dependent upon training, etc. If I recall correctly, there is a special liability shield statute protecting medical professionals which does not apply universally.
Actually, Republican,I am doing what I generally can about Darfur:1) I have informed all my federal and state representatives about how I feel about the tragedy there
2) I buy as little Chinese products as i can
3) I have publicly posted here and elsewhere
THus, in this situation, I have1) informed my state legislature that this is a travesty,2) I have pledged not to buy products from the store where the incident happened3) I have publicly posted here
Thanks Vaughn,
It seems I will have to look into this much further. I was informed by instructors (non lawyers) that bystanders attempting to do the right thing were shielded from immunity. I have passed that on to non medical people, always with the caveat that anybody can be sued, regardless of the veracity of the claim. So it appears I may have been wrong. Would you think that the controlling law would be case law or statute?
LJ, it is case law. Absent a statute, there exists no legal duty to try to assist another person who is injured. If one decides to assist, then in so doing, s/he is held to the reasonable person standard in what actions are undertaken.
Many states have “Good Samaritan” laws that provide liability protection, but to the best of my knowledge, Kansas, with the exception for medical professionals, does not have such a statute or decision. I’m not a trial attorney, so I don’t generally research these issues, and there may well be something out there of which I’m ignorant. BTW, this principle comes as a shock to many first-year law students, who assume that if a person stops to render aid, there is protection from being sued. Again, absent a statute or controlling precedent, that’s not the case.
Vaughn Tolle-
Thanks for the insight
Tom, thanks for posting. I was starting to feel alone on this issue.
VaughnKansas DOES have a “Good Samaritan Law” protecting ALL of us from legal liability in an emergency situation.
If I give CPR and crack someones ribs, which almost always happens, I can’t be sued later for cracking those ribs.
That was explained to me, in my EMT training, years ago, at WSU.
I was also told the same thing by my father, a former fireman and Red Cross First Aid instructor at Wichita Vo-Tech.
I have cracked a few ribs in my time. I did so while acting as a private citizen. The law protected me.
KSA 65-2891
http://www.cprinstructor.com/KS-GS.htm
“(e) As used in this section the term “health care provider” means any person licensed to practice any branch of the healing arts, licensed dentist, licensed optometrist, licensed professional nurse, licensed practical nurse, licensed podiatrist, licensed pharmacist and registered physical therapist, and any physician’s assistant who has successfully completed an American medical association approved training program and has successfully completed the national board examination for physicians’ assistants of the American board of medical examiners, any person who holds a valid attendant’s certificate under K.S.A. 65-6129, and amendments thereto, any person who holds a valid certificate for the successful completion of a course in first aid offered or approved by the American red cross, by the American heart association, by the mining enforcement and safety administration of the bureau of mines of the department of interior, by the national safety council or by any instructor-coordinator, as defined in K.S.A. 65-6112, and amendments thereto, and any person engaged in a postgraduate training program approved by the state board of healing arts”
If EMT is doing CPR in line of duty, then why doesn’t the City or County have the malpractice liability insurance come into play if there is a lawsuit. And does all CPR cause rib cracks or just yours paul?
shoveAlmost All cases of CPR crack ribs. It is very common.Are you trying to be funny again?If so, you are way off the mark, again.
Any lifeguard who has gone to CPR training is protected by the law.
Very few would attempt CPR without some training.
ShoveBy the way, you miss the point, I think:
A “Good Samaritan” is of course taken from the Bible account.
The “Samaritans” were not, ordinarily, friendly to the Jews. Therefore, when Jesus talked about the Samaritan helping in time of need, he made it clear that He, Jesus, held the Samaritan in higher regard than the Jews and other travelers who did nothing to help.
In modern times, we have good Samaritan laws to protect those who are NOT required, by their job titles, to give medical help.
Although mentioned in the Kansas Act, most of the situations protected by our law extend to “Samaritans” or bystanders.
It is not necessary to protect government employees like Fire, Police and EMT’s. Their jobs protect them.
By the way, Jesus, himself, was a Jew.(Before Ed thinks he has made a convert of me to his anti semitic cause)
I lived in Wichita for many years. Probably helped many of you through surgery, emergency room traumas, may have even made sure you breathed after surgery, I would never walk over anyone needing help much less take a photo! I am wondering what has happened to the kindness and humanity of people today. Wichita is the absolute last place that I would have ever imagined that this could have happened! New York, LA, Chicago maybe? but in the Heart of America?? Never! I will pray for LaShanda’s family but most of all I will pray for those who stepped over her, took photos with their cell phone and did not even call 911. They are the ones who will have to live with this for the rest of their lives. They are the ones who will have to answer to God. It is not for us to say or judge. They alone will do that. God bless you all and may this tragedy bring you all closer as human beings and brothers and sisters. Love each other and help each other, you might find out you have real friends out there.
Amen, Clare!
I cannot believe people just stood around and did not help that lady. Though it is not much different than the scalding death of my 8 month old granddaughter. Here is a synopsis:
My 8 month old Granddaughter, Janis Joelle, was scalded with hot water over 75% of her body by the babysitter and passed away 2-1/2 days later. The babysitter did nothing to help her, just put her to bed allowing her to lay there for 1-1/2 hours or more and I’m sure in extreme pain and shock. Such cruel abuse, neglect of a child in need of medical attention. He did not call 911 immediately to get her medical attention, instead he waits 1-1/2 hours or more and then calls my daughter at work. He claims its was an accident, though I find it hard to believe that he could fall backwards over my granddaughter and she receives a fatal burn and yet all he receives are a few small burns on his feet. By not calling for help immediately he signed her death warrant and, I believe, the reason he waited so long to call my daughter is because he had to think of a story to cover himself and he got away with it. He has shown no remorse and the statements he made to my daughter are an indicator of his mind set, he was showing guilt for his actions. If it was an accident, why did he wait so long to call my daughter to let her know what has happened? For that matter, why didn’t he call 911 first? Police would show up and he was trying to make up a story and didn’t have one yet, he was buying more time. The DA stated that he could not charge James because he did not admit to doing it on purpose and that he did not withhold medical attention long enough to warrant any charges, though Janis died. Unbelievable!!!!!! How many times do child killers admit to what they did? Time is of the essence in burn cases, with every passing minute the chance of survival for my granddaughter lessoned and then was gone. The following are the statements he said to my daughter that just grind on me because I can’t even believe he said them to her after he fatally scalded her daughter (though these aren’t the only showing of his lack of remorse for Janis’ death.;
“I didn’t know it would do that” (I take to mean that he didn’t think that a pot of scalding hot water would do any harm to an infant-totally unbelievable statement from a 24 year old man); then he had the gall to say “after I burned her she looked up at me and smiled like she was saying I forgive you” Can you believe he said this to her?!?
You are absolutely correct that there are no laws in place to hold someone accountable for the lack of laws covering this type of heartlessness in people in our society today. People should be held accountable for their actions and their LACK of action, especially if the result is death. In the case of my granddaughter if no laws are in place to hold people accountable for severe injuries or death of children/infants then it is an open field to harm or kill a child, make sure there are no witnesses, withhold medical help for as long as possible, claim it was an accident and you are scott free. There is no justice.I have a Petition going to reinstate the Negligent Homicide Statute (I believe Kansas had that statute but took it off the books in 1969). If you would like to sign it please click on the link below. If you would like to pass it along to others, please by all means do. My daughter and I are going to Topeka in January to present it in the Senate hearings. http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/801905266
I do want to note that the DA has reopened the case as I had presented a tidbit of evidence and the DA stated to me that he had sent the case file to another prosecutor to see if he knows of any case law to criminally charge James with the death of Janis. I look forward to any response you may have.