It’s significant that the board of directors of the Wichita Metro Chamber of Commerce voted Wednesday to oppose expanded gambling in Sedgwick County. That’s not an easy stance to take, given the diversity of business interests that the chamber represents. But the vote speaks to the strong conviction of many business leaders — including past chamber chairmen who urged the board to oppose gambling — that a casino would have an overall negative impact on local businesses and the economy.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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119 Comments
Can we say, final nail in the coffin?
WICHITA PUBLIC, VOTERS AND TAXPAYERS ARE waking up to the fact its politicians, including the three holdover county commissioners DAVE UNRUH, TIM NORTON AND TOM WINTERS are again trying to steamroll them with another costly “arena” trap in the form of a vote for a downtown gambling casino.
Now if voters can only get educated to economic facts related to casinos in time … they will shoo this dollar snarfing wolf away from their door.
Although official election day is still some eleven days away, those wishing to vote NO and NO … and others as well can do so now by voting early in the Election Commissioners Office in the historic downtown Sedgwick County Courthouse.
And remember there are politicians and their professional handlers, the county and city managers, who want to prey on older people and the young alike who have fallen on hard times and might see gambling as a rescuer of sorts.
SO CONTACT YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES TO GO OUT AND VOTE … NO AND NO … ON THIS HUNGRY TAX-STARVING WOLF IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING.THEY AREN’T YOUR FRIENDS.
Chamber admitted that when they ask their members what their stance was, it was pretty much 50/50. They didn’t say the membership was majority “no”, but that it was close to 50/50, which gives you every reason to believe that the majority, although close, wanted the Casino.
This was the board making the decision, not the membership itself. A 26 member board that included Lou Heldman of the WE, Jack Pelton of Cessna and etc. They also refused to disclose who voted for and against. Even among the board, it was not unanimous.
Even this, I still believe it’s going to pass.
I believe I saw that it was 50 for,48 opposed. The chamber will in no way influence my vote, as will not the position of we editors. Make up your own mind, and vote your decision.
I already decided for myself, No-No.
Well I decided also and my vote is yes yes and I’ll raise you one yes yes so there!
Funny that “business” gets their view in the paper but how does LABOUR feel? Have the unions either endorsed or opposed? What is good for business is not what is usually good for the workers.
I know the Sedgwick County Democrat Party is endorsing the Casino for jobs and economic development purposes.
Here is a question to the “No” people. I can see you opposing a Casino, but also slots at the Dogtrack?
You do know that Sumner will get a Casino if it doesn’t pass here in Sedgwick. But why put the Dogtrack out of business? It’s out of the city. So vote against a Casino, but at least vote “Yes” for slots at the track.
To the best of my understanding, based on other county votes, there will be a casino built somewhere within an hour of Wichita. Since there WILL be a casino that close, the Wichita/Sedgwick county vote on the casino will not have the effect of determining if a casino will be built, but rather WHERE it will be built.
Any potential negative impact caused by a casino, such as touted by the No-No crowd , will still come to fruition regardless of the outcome of the SG.CO election. SG county residents could easily go to Sumner County and go to the casino. The only difference is Sedgwick county would not have the revenue from the casino to offset the problems those residents bring back with them. SG county residents that are going to ‘cannibalize’ local businesses by spending their money at casino instead of those businesses are going to spend the same amount of money at the casinos, it will just be 25 miles to the south.
I cannot see a valid reason not to vote for the casino in light of these facts.
NO to State run casino’s. Anything the state runs turns out badly for the taxpayer. The Dog track should have closed long ago as a money loser. That’s life. Don’t bring in state regulated gambling, at the expense of the already established Indian Casino’s.
Sumner County would be a good location for the Casino.
I’ll probably go NO on Casino, Yes on Greyhound.
So your reason for voting No ‘Chief’ is not that casinos are bad, rather, casinos are so good that the state should not compete with the already existing Indian casinos?
Actually Brian! Chief isn’t from Sedgwick County. He’s been coming on the Casino threads telling people not to vote for State run casinos.
He’s most likely from Oklahoma.
The current business owners like the preachers, are concerned about their pockets! Not yours, and not mine. They do not want to have to compete with a venue that will provide food, gambling, and entertainment. They may cloak their real intentions in that a casino will demoralize our community, but they really worry about how it will affect their bottomline. People are gambling already. Just not here….legally! Its time to stop the bleeding and keep the gambling revenue locally and stop watching it drive out of town. Thats the real question on the ballot. “Would you like to keep gambling dollars local or not?” Keep in mind, vote no….Sumner county is ready to take our money!
The NO people are yelling the loudest on this issue and using scare tactics and doomsday scenarios to try and sway the vote.
I think the other casino votes that have happened around the state and the margin they have been approved by are a good indicator that this will easily pass.
Vote YES YES
I wish someone would explain to me how by voting no we will be losing all this revenue. My understanding is that Sedgwick County gets a mere 2% of the profit. It is also my understanding the State will own the casino and will contract out the running of the casino. If the State ownes the property, does this mean no property taxes on the casino? My other concern is are we moving disposable income from other areas to gambling and will drive other businesses out and lose more sales tax revenue. I actually assume this will have as much tax savings impact as the lottery ultimatley has, since it is also State ran and touted the same promises.
Just remember all of the things that government runs now.
If you think they run them well now and should keep bailing out things like cowtown etc. then you should vote yes.
If you think that the casinos should be owned and operated by government (not to mentioned monitored by government) then you should vote yes.
If you think casinos should be owned and operated by a private business then you should vote no.
If you want casinos then tell the legislature to go back to the drawing board and change the constitution. That way everyone in the state gets to vote and we can have casinos where we want them not where the state wants them.
Vote no and tell the legislature to go back and do this the right way.
dwd,People have a limited amount of money to spend on items. Any time there are more places to spend money, each of the places gets a smaller portion of the pie (assuming a somewhat consistent allocation of spending).
A casino is one more option people would have to spend money at, therefore less would be spent at other businesses.
If you vote NO, a casino will be built a short way from Wichita; if you vote yes a casino will be built in (or immediately outside) Wichita. Either Way, there will be a larger pool of business to spread consumer spending between, so local businesses will suffer. If you vote yes, a small amount of government revenue brought in by the casino will stay in Wichita/SG CO. If you vote no, none of the revenue will come to Wichita/SG.
Lets try to look at this from a more simple perspective. Don’t want it, don’t go! If the city or state makes one nickel, then that one more nickel than we had before. Why does it matter who runs it? This is not a “new” type of business that the community is unsure about. The business model is pretty solid I think. The people are already gambling, just not here. But please continue to whine about the details and miss the opportunity completely.
“Yes, I will accept this job that pays me 250,000.00 per year. But can you please repaint the building? I hate the color!” This is what you sound like.
sotheysaid! The State isn’t going to go back and fix it. It’s a done deal. Casino plans are in the works already.
dwd! The State gets more than 20% of the casino revenue. Most of the money to be channeled to the Universities.
The state only owns the Casino operation, not the entire complex. Hotel, restaurant, retail… those are all different and separate. And Yes! The Casino structure will be paying property tax. The State will not own the structure, just the operation, and only the casino floor operation, nothing else.
If the Casino is located within City Limits of Wichita, Wichita will benefit, not just the gaming revenue, but the transient tax on the hotel rooms that can net them an average of $2.5 million a year alone, not including the property or sales tax involved.
If you vote No, No, the Greyhound track will probably close down. When you have WWW, Optima Bus, Greyhound Track and The Kansas Coliseum all empty and closed down, it’s going to look very barren up there in Park City.
The further away the casino is from Sedgwick County even if only 25 miles the less impact it will have on other businesses. Since the revenue value seems mimimal I would let Sumner County have the casino. Win, Win you don’t have to travel far and we lessen negative impact to Sedgwick County.
This was a horrible bill passed by the legislature. If we want gambling in Kansas, do it right. Change the Constitution.
Vote no!
Joe, I posted before you enlightened me on the vast revenue we will receive from the transient guest tax. Where are these people staying in the rooms coming from? Are they new people coming into town or just same people staying at a different Hotel?
You speak as a fact the State won’t own the property?
If the dog track can’t sustain itself maybe it should shut down. If I applied your logic we should allow any business that struggles to put in slots so they won’t shut down.
dwd, what about slots at the Greyhound Park? Look! I made an argument that I submitted to the Editorial Board. I didn’t think it will get published, because there were too many words. Over 400, when the submission is 200 words or less. I’ll post it here.
These will bring new people in. A Casino in Wichita will bring people in out of town, not by the millions like Las Vegas, but it will bring in hundreds and sometimes thousands during conventions.
Wichita is building new hotels left and right! That’s because we are getting more people in Wichita every year. A Casino will add to it.
“Win, Win you don’t have to travel far and we lessen negative impact to Sedgwick County.
Posted by: dwd | July 26, 2007 at 09:01 AM ”
That is fundamentally flawed. I agree with you that the further from Wichita, the less impact. That is, of course directly proportional to the number of people that will go. If it is close enough many people will still go, it will have an impact. I think it is safe to assume it will be close, since no one would build a business without a population base able to support it.
Joe,
I still ask where are these hundreds and thousands of people coming from? If we are building hotels now because more people come every year fine, but this isn’t a result of a casino. Where are the people the casino is supposed to draw coming from?
A Casino will not bring woes.
Gaming or gambling, however you speak about a Casino in our area it is not what you think. Some people believe that a casino in our area will bring woes and do nothing but pick the pockets of local patrons. The fact is that gambling already exists in our society.
It’s in every gas station and super market in the form of lottery. We have Keno, Bingo, Online sports betting and online casinos. Half the billboards in town display Casinos in Oklahoma and N.E. Kansas and let’s not forget race tracks. Print, radio and television advertisement is filled with promotions for Casinos or trips to Las Vegas. Take a vacation to many of the destination cities around theU.S., the world or take a family on a cruise and you will find acasino operation. It’s everywhere, but the real fact about casinos isthat only small portions of the population game.
Casinos are only a catalyst for other business activities, which are predominately in the form of hotel, food and beverage and otherentertainment operations. When we decide about a casino in our area,we are not talking about just a casino. We are talking about aprivately funded $300+ million hotel/retail/entertainment complex for which a casino is only a small portion and won’t even be visible or notice to those on the outside. Why would investors put up so muchmoney for such a large complex for just a Casino? It’s because acasino operation fills hotel rooms, restaurants and retail shops with most patrons never slipping a quarter in a slot.
Will a casino in our area created more addicted gamblers? No! Because those who or will gamble now have so much access and exposure to gambling that one casino in our area will not make a dent in the number of addicted gamblers. What about increases in bankruptcies? Again no! The far single largest contributor to bankruptcies is uninsured medical debt followed by consumer credit card debt. Gambling debt only accounts to 5% to 6% of filed bankruptcy cases.
For those who are concerned about a Casino in are area, need not toworry. A Casino will not bring woes. Like most of us who don’t game, we just ignore the billboards, the ads and any casinos. But a chance to bring $300 million in investment and an updated change to our skyline is hard to pass up. If it comes and when you drive pass the hotel skyscraper, most won’t even know or care that a casino is inside.
“Where are the people the casino is supposed to draw coming from?
Posted by: dwd | July 26, 2007 at 09:19 AM”
Well that should be obvious - they will be here for the arena!
Sorry it’s disjointed. It was a copy and paste from e-mail.
;)
Brian,
Not flawed the futher the distance the less impact locally. Remember the Coloseum was to far away, that is why we needed a downtown arena.
“Here is a question to the “No” people. I can see you opposing a Casino, but also slots at the Dogtrack?”
That is why a split vote (NO-YES I think) is looking interesting. I sent Scholfield an email suggesting a short article simply describing the questions - especially which is which.
Both sides have connected the questions as though they are one.
brian - the problem some of us have with YES is that we don’t want one downtown. If I could be sure it would be at the Coliseum or someplace similar I would vote YES-YES. However I have no such assurance. The thing is too much a ‘pig-in-a-poke’
By the way, the County has attached conditions to the Coliseum idea that are sure deal-killers. One of these is a two-year delay if a developer wants to do one.
Now for another question: If the vote splits and Greayhound Park gets 1400 slots - will a developer find Sumner attractive any more? Will a Racino take it all?
JoeLet’s not be so crass. They have that great 5,000 seat arena that Wink Hartman is building. That will revitalize the community. Don’t believe me, go ask Dee Stuart. The No voters are worried about this affecting them personally.
Just like WWW was going to. Dee and Park City got scammed by a ten gallon hat man.
Word on the street that Wink is thinking about pulling out. If he gets his Independent Baseball League team for LD. He is thinking about moving that arena and possibly attaching it to LD or scrap it all together.
Attached to LD - I LIKE THAT IDEA!
There are always studies to support either side of the issue. I am voting yes, yes. First Bush gets re-elected, now this. What are you Wichitans thinking? Are you really that ignorant? This would mean thousands of jobs and major money for the city. Millions of gambeling dollars LEAVE Wichita every year. Has anyone considered that! HELLO!
Right on for the comments by ScottCalvert. These people who come inwould need gas, might be hungry, might stop at the mall etc, etc,.The religious right in town is behind the no-no votes. The have gone to extreme measures to scareeveryone. I hope people read the Eagles stories on the other communities similar to Wichita where all the gloom and doom did not come to pass. I am voting yes-yes more to spite the “stiffs” in this town as I may go to the casinooccasionally.
Businesses are afraid of the competition.By restricting MY freedom to spend MY money how I choose, they hope to get by and sell inferior alternatives.They can’t hack a little competition.Perhaps, we should a moratorium on all new businesses.That new Taco Hut will hurt my Pizza Hut, ergo, you should vote against allowing the Taco Hut to exist.Oh, you prefer to spend YOUR money on taco’s?? Tough s#@* buddy.
As you have heard from other posters, VOTE NO for the Casino.
Not only is it sinful, but it will be an inferior product.
Certainly inferior to any existing privately run casino’s such as those you will find across Kansas already.
Further, we can sell you cigarettes at less cost as you won’t have to pay the federal taxes.
VOTE NO on CASINO.
Actually! The majority of the participating Chamber members wanted the casino. The Board went against their constituents.
The folks talking about all the great places for a casino is kind of amusing given that neither the citizens nor elected officials in Sedgwick County will have any say whatsoever in where the casino (or casinos ?) is ultimately located. It will be determined by an as yet to be appointed board.
trndobrd - and THAT is a BIG problem for some of us. The politicians are saying “trust us”
All of you yes people will be screaming in a few years when taxes go up becasue the revenue is not there from the casinos.
It is not about religion for a lot of people that are saying no. For a lot of us it is about the increase in the social costs that taxpayers will have to take care of.
So quit saying it is about the religious folks trying to put their values on others.
Why would taxes go up if a casino is not making enough money?
“For a lot of us it is about the increase in the social costs that taxpayers will have to take care of.So quit saying it is about the religious folks trying to put their values on others.Posted by: sotheysaid | July 26, 2007 at 01:19 PM”
There will be some measure of those social costs whether the final vote is yes or no. A casino will be built somewhere nearby. There will be various social costs associated with it. That is without question. Whether the casino is in Wichita or not, Wichitans will go to the casino then bring the problems home with them.
Here’s the great irony of this whole gambling issue:
Why is it wrong for us to gamble unless the state gets its huge share of the revenue?
It’s like automatically a vice is transformed into a virtue, just because the state gets its share!
That is what few people discuss: how this gambling bill is a huge growth for the state in its power to regulate, its ability to tax, and its ability to spend.
We as humans have the inherent right to gamble. The legislature should not have to pass a law allowing this right, we should not have to require a majority vote in order to exercise this right, and we shouldn’t have to pay the state a huge chunk of casino revenue in order to exercise this right.
Don’t the people understand this?
The theory, brain, (which I do not subscribe to BTW) the local government will be providing social programs etc for problem gamblers who have ‘gone bust’ (more likely their families). Also the theory is increased crime by ‘busted’ gamblers.
I make the point that all of this is here already - we have the Lottery, Oklahoma, etc now.
That is a good point anonymous.The question should be “Should the state allow gambling: Yes or NO”.
If the vote is yes, then the market takes over and casinos may or may not be built, based on commercial viability as determined by private companies (good old fashioned capitalism)
If the vote is no, we would need to then look at the validity of many things other than casinos: the lottery, not-for-profit raffles, bingo, chance-based prize sweepstakes, etc.
Obviously, our laws (and morals) are sometimes driven by who stands to profit.
Ben,I am confused. Are you saying those things are happening already so using them as an argument against casinos is invalid?
Brian, I don’t subscribe to your view that morality is something we decide by a majority vote!
I did not say morality should be decided. I said “Should the state allow gambling: Yes or NO”.
My intent was that it should be decided whether the state has any jurisdiction to regulate gambling. Since it is a moral issue, I think the state should have no jurisdiction (or very little) to regulate it.
Even casino supporters concede huge social costs.
And while it is true that with the various forms of gambling we already have access to, we undoubtedly experience some of those costs.
But I don’t think any of the forms of gambling we have here can compare to people I see playing slots in a casino. There, people tap the “play” button ceaselessly so that the next spin starts as soon as is possible after the current spin ends. I don’t see people buying lottery tickets or scratch-off cards that way, at least in my experience.
The whole gambling issue boils down to this: what is the government’s role in protecting us from ourselves?
brain - to a large extent yes.
Why would the chamber say no to slots at the Greyhound Park?
What’s up with that?
One thing that bugs me with this whole thing. If i am not mistaken ‘casual’ gambling (office football pool, friendly Friday night card game with the guys) will still be illegal.
Good question Phil. BOTH sides have joined these two questions as one. Bad move by the track IMO.
Ben: yes.
The police department has (or used to have) several gambling pools for footbal, basketball, and the like.
Amazing how many unconvicted felons are top dogs in our police department.
VT - a question. Betting on sports; not in a ’sanctioned’ establishment is illegal. So, when the Governor of Kansas places a bet with the Goevrnor of another state isn’t that a crime?
I still don’t know how I’m going to vote on this issue. I’ve never been in a casino, and I’m probably too old to start now, so personally it doesn’t matter.Every time I see one of those ads promoting casinos, I want to vote against them, and when I see the ads against them, I want to vote for them! Both sides here are pulling out all the big propaganda guns! I haven’t yet seen claims that casinos cause AIDS, or will make everybody in the state insanely wealthy, but I expect them any minute. Is there any way to vote for “None of the Above?”
Ben, all I can do with that question is to suggest reading the gambling statutes in force in the several states. One thing to note that the “friendly wagers” between governors on sporting events are never cash (”the same as money”. Yogi Berra) bets, but involve products of the states whose governors are making the same.
Jed, the hyperbole in the advertisements used by both sides of the issue has been staggering.
Good points. The best salesmen for the two sides are the guys on the opposite side!
VT - so if I wager a good (my car for example) instead of cash it’s legal?
I’d love to see someone place a citizens arrest on one of the governors sometime. Show how absurd the laws are.
betya yes-yes wins!
http://www.kslegislature.org/legsrv-statutes/
21-4303 and forward
Ben, the other way to change the absurd laws would be if the police started raiding peoples homes and arresting people who play home card games. Would be interesting considering that I’ve played against police officers and ex mayor Knight.
Ok, whatever – I guess I will be going to Sumner County and spending my money at their local businesses.
You see the Wichita businesses think that they will be losing their business if a casino is here but the truth is that they are not going to lose business with a casino here but they are for sure going to lose some business anyway when the casino is down south.
In other words, there will be one less business in Wichita and people are going to go to the casino regardless what the area businesses thinks.
That isn’t gambling Tom Paine.
That’s invitational risk payment interaction using randomly organized pieces of decorated cardboard. :D
Why yes Kansas it is my plan would suck for me as well. In fact im getting ready to partake in some gambling now every bar in town has a poker night, then some bingo later on
Government regulation is required for Casino operations in my opinion, because most, although not all, of the games set up are games of chance. Even though it is considered entertainment to a lot of people, a game of chance is much different than selling a product or service.
They have to regulate, especially the slot machines that they payout a certain percentage, usually around the 20% range and also make sure everything is on the up and up. Even is Las Vegas, the Nevada State Gaming Commission regulates casino operations.
That is the only role that government should really play. It’s not so much that the government is protecting us from ourselves, just that a gaming operation should provide a decent chance of wining a pot. Card and dice games are basically the luck of the draw and can’t really be fixed, unless scrupulous dealers using fixed decks and dice are use, which I serious doubt will happen. A Casino still has to have a reputation as a clean operation or nobody will go.
Just wanted to let people know that earlier this week I was down in Newkirk, Oklahoma and of all places, the Kay County Sheriff Department and Jail doing some work. I ask a couple of deputies there if the casinos in the area causes more crime and have they seen any increase in arrest and incarcerations. They said no. They said it’s pretty much the same as it always has been before the casinos came in town and actually, they’ve seen somewhat a drop, because more people are employed and not goofing off getting drunk all day. By the way, Newkirk is getting another Casino soon.
I also talked to a co-worker in Oklahoma City. Did you know that a huge destination casino operation is opening up in Norman, Oklahoma (suburb of OKC), that is going to be the largest Casino in the world (so they claim). Of course, they already have three Casinos in operation there already! This is the same town, in which University of Oklahoma is in. The Casinos down there he said brings in all kind of acts, from musicians to comedians. He said he doesn’t go there to gamble, but he goes there several times a month just to watch the comedy acts.
A destination casino would bring the same to Wichita. A steady stream of musicians, comedians and performance shows.
Oklahoma is nearing 90 casino operations now. Very prolific. While we shouldn’t flood Kansas with Casinos, a few in key areas, like Wichita, KCK and Dodge City wouldn’t be such a bad thing.
You asked the wrong people Joe. The Indian Gaming Regulatory Act (IGRA), enacted in 1988, provides the FBI has federal criminal jurisdiction over acts directly related to Indian gaming establishments, including those located on reservations under state criminal jurisdiction.
What is the real impact of gambling?
The following facts from the National Coalition Against Legalized Gambling highlight the problem:
* Gambling costs more than raising taxes, even for those who NEVER gamble! Each compulsive gambler costs the economy between $14,006 and $22,077 per year. If two percent become addicted, that’s $280 to $440 per year paid by every other citizen!
* Most casinos attract 80 percent or more of their market from a 35-50 mile radius. Casinos absorb existing entertainment, restaurant and hotel business, and deplete dollars available to other retail businesses. That destroys other jobs in the trade area and eliminates their sales, employment and property tax contributions.
* Legalizing gambling does not reduce illegal gambling. Legalized gambling may even increase illegal gambling because untaxed illegal operators may offer better odds, bigger payoffs and loans that legal operations cannot. Patrons in gambling states feel gambling is generally legal and they are less averse to gambling in unlicensed establishments. Law enforcement in gambling states see illegal gambling as a state revenue issue rather than a criminal activity, and may be less motivated to investigate.
* When gambling appears in a community, it brings a wave of addiction. In a mature gambling market, compulsive gambling typically seizes the lives of 1.5 percent to 2.5 percent of the adult population. That amounts to three to five times the number of people suffering from cancer.
* Addiction rates double within 50 miles of a casino. Probable pathological gambling in Nevada in 2000 measured 3.5 percent. Other states ranged from 2.1 percent in North Dakota in 2000 to 4.9 percent in Mississippi in 1996. A casino within 10 miles of a home yields a 90 percent increased risk of its occupants becoming pathological or problem gamblers. Neighborhood disadvantage increases that risk another 69 percent. Slots and other gambling machines push susceptible players to the pathological level in an average of 1.08 years, vs. 3.58 years with more “conventional” forms of table and racetrack gambling.
* It takes three to five years for gamblers in a newly opened market to exhaust their resources. When addiction ripens in the market, so do the social costs. The most recent study of all the casino counties in the nation confirmed personal bankruptcy rates are 100 percent higher in counties with casinos than in counties without casinos.
* Desperate to “chase” and recover gambling losses, pathological gamblers often turn to crime. Fraud and embezzlement become common among formerly hard-working and highly trusted people. Violent crimes also increase. Three years after the introduction of casinos in Atlantic City, there was a tripling of total crimes. Per capita crime there jumped from 50th in the nation to first. Expect suicides.
Gambling and the StateIn March 2003, the Taxpayers League of Minnesota published a list of reasons why states should say no to gambling. The following is their list, which is applicable to all states:
* The government should not be running profit-making enterprises, much less an entertainment industry. If the state opens a casino, it will suddenly be in the gambling, restaurant, liquor, hotel, and concert business.* Accountability in government demands that taxing and spending policies should be transparent, i.e., revenue should be collected through taxes and fees that taxpayers can see, and should be spent in ways that taxpayers can easily understand and keep track of. Gambling revenues will undoubtedly find their way into “slush funds” to finance projects that would never make it through the normal process.* Casinos and other profitable enterprises are seen as “easy money.” That is why there are so many proposals today. How many new casinos will be necessary the next economic downturn, or to fund the next unpopular project? Soon enough there will be 4, 5, 6, or 10 casinos to fund pet projects the taxpayers would otherwise reject.* The success of any state gambling enterprise will require millions of dollars to be spent on additional advertising. Already, over $8 million is spent by the state lottery to convince taxpayers to waste their earnings on lottery tickets. How many millions of dollars will the state spend to separate citizens from their paychecks at casinos? $20 million? $50 million?* Minnesota’s culture will be permanently altered when the state spends millions in advertising dollars, ensuring that our children are bombarded by messages about gambling’s virtues. This would be a perversion of the basic role the state has in educating the next generation.* The profits to the state from casinos are grossly overstated because the substantial increased law enforcement, judiciary, and welfare costs to the state are ignored. How many more bankruptcies, embezzlements, and other personal tragedies caused by gambling addiction will the taxpayers be expected to bear the costs of?* By its nature, the gambling industry makes its profits by stacking the odds against the little guy. It has no product, and therefore cannot add to the overall economic growth of the state. It simply redistributes money from its poorest citizens to the government. It is certainly not the proper role of government to become a predator of its citizens, fleecing them in order to keep its appetite for spending growth fed.
A group of citizens in Erie County, New York is fighting against a casino in their area. The following is excerpted from the “talking points” section of their Web site:
1. Casino gambling redistributes, does not create, income for communities—Based upon figures from a 1995 Buffalo News article studying gambling and tourism, more than 80 percent of casino patrons would be local residents, not outside visitors bringing in new dollars.—Solomon Brothers analysis indicates that casino spending siphons dollars from other entertainment options. In Buffalo, this would threaten such organizations as the Bills, Sabres, Bisons; the Philharmonic; and the Theater District.—Dollars invested in casino games would result in reduced retail tax revenues.
2. Casino gambling costs jobs and destroys small business—University at [sic] Illinois research indicates loss of 2.75 jobs for every one casino job gained.—Total Atlantic City small businesses declined from 2100 to 150 with introduction of casinos.
3. Casino gambling increases cost of local government—Casino experience in Central City, Colorado indicates that infrastructure and staffing costs will vastly increase for water, highway construction and parking.—Casinos will create only temporary construction jobs, while increasing governmental payroll costs.—Potential impact of unemployment if casinos fail would be devastating to local economy.
4. Casino gambling threatens to increase gambling addictions—National Center for Compulsive Gambling says 16 percent of nation’s population are addicted to gambling.—Despite laws prohibiting such, 1998 study showed that 75 percent of New York State teenagers had gambled at least once in 1997, with 15 percent betting on a weekly basis.—While investing 2.5 percent more income, proportionately, than middle class, low-income gamblers still view casinos as a means to, in their words, “get rich.”"
Slot machines are the most addictive form of gambling. People just can’t seem to get enough of them. And anyone can play because they require no skill like poker or betting on horse racing. All one has to do is put the money in the machine and push a button. There are a number of other facts about slot machines that everyone should know.
* Nearly 40 million Americans played a slot machine in 2003, according to an annual survey of casino gambling conducted by Harrah’s Entertainment and mentioned in The New York Times Magazine’s May 9 issue.* Each day in the United States, slot machines take in an average of more than $1 billion in wagers, The Times said.* Collectively, slot machines gross more annually than McDonald’s, Wendy’s, Burger King and Starbucks combined, the article said.* The National Gambling Impact Commission found that following a decade of expansion in the 1990s, the national lifetime compulsive gambling population had grown by at least 50 percent, to no less than 1.2 percent based on the most conservative of its source studies. It also discovered a significant trend indicating addiction had doubled in many populations within 50 miles of casinos, according to NCALG.* Electronic Gambling Machines, including modern slot machines, may be the most addictive. Gamblers who participate with electronic machines are becoming addicted much more quickly. One of the most recent studies show EGM gamblers arrive at the pathological gambling level in 1.08 years vs. 3.58 years with more conventional forms of table and racetrack gambling. Electronic gambling devices have been called the “crack cocaine” of the industry, according to NCALG.
Scripture References on Gambling
Exodus 20:3, 15, 17Proverbs 1:19Proverbs 15:27Proverbs 16:33Proverbs 21:25-26Proverbs 28:25Ecclesiastes 5:12 — working brings rest while riches bring no restIsaiah 65:11-12 — don’t use Fortune and Chance as a guideJeremiah 6:13Jeremiah 8:10Matthew 5:25-26 — debtsMatthew 6:19-21, 24Matthew 18:30 — debtsMatthew 22:21Matthew 25:14-30 — good stewardship of resourcesLuke 12:15-21Luke 16:1-13Romans 13:7Romans 14:21 — gambling can be a stumbling blockI Corinthians 10:24, 31I Corinthians 16:1-3 — can’t give to a collection if your money is gambled awayII Corinthians 9:6-15Ephesians 4:28 — don’t steal by not earning your shareEphesians 5:35Philippians 2:3-4Philippians 4:11-13, 19I Thessalonians 5:22II Thessalonians 3:6-12I Timothy 5:8I Timothy 6:10, 17-19
Those are criminal acts done on Indian Reservation. I ask the county as a whole.
The Indian Territory that is close to Newkirk is very, very tiny. Basically it is purchased land from the Kaw Indians who just lay claim to land that is just enough to put a small casino on. The county itself is not an Indian Reservation.
The point is that crime is suppose to happen everywhere, says the “No” people. Embezzlements, domestic abuse, larceny, auto theft and so on. It’s the county that takes care of the criminals, not the Indian Reservation or the FBI. Your point is moot when we are talking about Newkirk.
Perhaps you misread the statement I provided Joe.
“…the FBI has federal criminal jurisdiction over acts directly related to Indian gaming establishments, including those located on reservations under state criminal jurisdiction.”
Joe, that pretty much covers jurisdictional authority to include the State of Oklahoma of which Counties are entities existing therein.
Those commercials helped me make up my vote. The opposition makes grand statements and accusations with no proof, source of information or any explanation to how all these terrible things happen. “Businesses will close down” – Why, give examples of other towns where you can prove this happened. “Our Children won’t see a penny of the income.” Again, based on what, a study, examples from other cities.What gals me the most are the people who change their mind over the baseless accusations. Don’t people question what they are told anymore? Do they just believe whatever someone on a commercial tells them? If so we have as real problem in our society and it isn’t gambling.
City-data.com crime index
(Higher means more crime, U.S. average is 325.2)http://www.city-data.com/
——————-City of Newkirk, OklahomaHome of South Wind Casino
Crime Stat Index ratings2001 - 664.72002 - 350.92003 - 444.92004 - 498.92005 - 532.3——————-City of Wichita, KansasNo Casinos
Crime Stat Index ratings1999 - 467.72000 - 470.82001 - 506.62002 - 513.92003 - 453.42004 - 528.7——————-Oklahoma City, OklahomaHome of Nearby CasinosGoldsby Gaming Center, Golsby Casino Chickasaw Nation
Remington Park Racetrack and CasinoRiverwind Casino, Norman, Oklahoma Choctaw NationThunderbird Casino, Norman, Oklahoma
Crime Stat Index ratings1999 - 685.92000 - 677.42001 - 656.12002 - 687.22003 - 706.12004 - 667.12005 - 653.7——————-Horton, KansasHome of Golden Eagle Casino
Crime Stat Index ratings
2002 - 134.92003 - 90.22004 - 227.42005 - 294.9
From government interference in our lives - give us freedom.
From government telling me how to spend my money - give us freedom.
From government dictating morality (like Kansas government does), give us gambling!
If any of happen to the eastern counties of Kansas, take a trip across the state line into Missouri. Count the thousands of cars with Kansas plates in the MO casino’s. Seven days a week, 24 hours a day. All year long.
An afternoon or evening of gambling usually includes dinner out with the spouse, gas for the car, smokes (not for me but the smokers buy them cheaper in MO), maybe some shopping for the ladies, and sometimes a movie after it all. We are close enough to drive home to Kansas, but many others stay at the casino or local hotels.
$$$$$$ dollars lost to Kansas businesses. Not just to the casino.
There is a cost to this, but the revenue far exceeds the costs to taxpayers in my opinion.
Now, what the State does with that money is an entirely different matter. Probably fund new textbooks for K-12 with photographs of evolution. Who knows?
But if you don’t build it, you will never find out, and local businesses will not share in the profits.
GAMBLING:Who’s really at risk?http://www.dontgambleourfuture.org/documents/gamblingreport_May182005.pdf
The connection between gambling and crime
CONSTANTINE & ABORN ADVISORY SERVICES450 Lexington AvenueNew York, NY 10017212-350-2781www.caasny.com
Richard M. Aborn, principal authorJohn V. Bennett, researcher
May 19, 2005
Incidents of Violent Crime in Mississippi:
Incidents of Violent Crime in Mississippi
Increased-Will the same happen in Sullivan County?
5,0727,4135,4168,887Gulfport Biloxi
1993
1994
This report will examine the experience ofcommunities where gambling has been
Gambling: Who’s Really at Risk?
Introduced to illustrate the expected impact 1994.
The number of violent crimes inand extent of casino-related crime in Biloxi went from 5,072 in 1993 to 7,413 communities considering introducing in 1994, whilerising in Gulfport from gambling. 5,416 to 8,887.2
One of the best ways to anticipate what Bank robberies occurred in 16 banks might happen in Sullivan County, should along “casino row” in 1993, a 300% casino gambling be permitted, is to reviewincrease over the previous year and the experience of other communities that breaking an all-time record. allowed gambling to be introduced.
Pre-Casino: Notably, between 1988 and 1993, Gulfport’s overall crime rate had fallen 42%.
Gulfport’s first casino opened in May, 1993.
Gulfport and Biloxi, Mississippi
Alcohol-related crime, from DUI’s to Riverboat casino gambling was introduced family violence, became a major to the Mississippi Gulf Coast in 1992. A problem police official explained look at what happened in two of the cities “what people don’t realize is that casinos Gulfport and Biloxi -that Crime rates including bank robberies, alcohol related accidents, prostitution and drug arrests all increased.
*Casinos are essentially nothingmore than huge bars . . drink as they want free of charge, 24-hours a day.*
*Casinos use alcohol as a tool.*produced the following results on crime rates,
The Chief of Police according to a reportreported that “every crime that is fueled by
alcoholAttorney General:and drugs is way up.
By 1994, crime
Alcohol-relatedincreases were seen in accidents rose 101%every category, with murder, rape, between the
first seven months of 1993robbery and car theft at least doubling.1 and the same period the year before.
Ten categories of violent crime rose by- Prostitution arrests increased 85%64% in Gulfport and 46% in Biloxi in
Gambling: Who’s Really at Risk?
Between 1992 and 1994 Biloxi and the Gulfport
Police Department investigated six escortservices on prostitution charges. Drug arrests
jumped by 152% between 1992 and 1994. Police
Department officials identified heroin, LSD, cocaine, ecstasy, and other drugs as growing moreprevalent.
Insurance fraud rose, with gamblers “falsely report[ing] that they were abducted, robbed or both.”
Fraud and embezzlement increased sharply. The Chief of Police stated that “[i]n one week we had 15 cases of internal theftand embezzlement, 90% ofit gambling related . . . they’re getting in trouble, and they’re trying to win it back.”
Pawn shops doubled in size and tripled in number.
They are open 24 hours, andsome are “Car Hocks” where a gambler can “hock [his] car for a few hundred dollars in a hurry.”
After the release of the Attorney General’s report, crime rose still further in Gulfport and Biloxi, reaching 18,500 major crimes reported in 1999.
By 2002, the number of major crimes reported in Biloxi and Gulfport had fallen from the peak seen in 1999, to 9,670, according to FBI data. However, both Biloxiand Gulfport’s crime rates exceed the state average for Mississippi. In the state as a whole, there were 4,159 crimes per 100,000population. Meanwhile, there were 7,534 crimes per 100,000 residents of Biloxi and 8,102 crimes per 100,000 residents in Gulfport.
This phenomenon of rapidly climbing crime subsequent to the introduction of gamblinghas not been limited to Biloxi and Gulfport.
Virtually every other community that has permitted gambling has seen a similar increase.
“In gambling, the many must lose in order that the few may win.” George Benard Shaw
The Oklahoma Association for Gambling Addiction
Awarenesshttp://www.oagaa.org/html/statistics.htm
Oklahoma has over 80 Tribal Casinos, three racetrack casinos and the lottery. Oklahoma
Oklahoma - 80 CasinosAustralia ~13 casinos.Canada has ~ 60England has ~60France ~50Germany ~50
Current estimates state that approximately 1-3% of the population meet the DSM-IV criteria for pathological gambling. By this estimate, there are between 35,000 and 105,000 people who currently could be currently diagnosed as pathological gamblers in Oklahoma. Some estimates are as high as 10% of the population that could be diagnosed with compulsive or problem gambling.
As of September 2005, nearly 9,000 people have added themselves to the self-ban list from the 12casinos in Missouri. The number of people adding themselves to this self-ban list provided by theMissouri Gambling Commission is growing by approximately 1200 per year. Missouri has only 12 casinos Oklahoma has over 80 casinos with more planned.
———————Scholarly Papers and Other Documents Reviewed:
Gaming Law ReviewNancy H. Kratzke, Thomas O. Depperschmidt. Gaming
Law Review. 1998, 2(3): 257-265.
doi:10.1089/glr.1998.2.257
Associate Professor Nancy H. KratzkeBusiness Law at the University of Memphis.Professor Thomas O. DepperschmidtEconomics at the University of Memphis
Credit Card Advances:The Impact on Gambling Bankruptcies
———————————BETTING ON BANKRUPTCYDAN HERBECK, Buffalo News, January 6, 2004http://www.nocasinoerie.org/news4.htm#3
“Since the new casino opened, we’ve had 268 new applications for service, which was 53 percentabove the previous record,” said Renee Wert, director of the program. “Most of the people whocome to us for counseling on gambling have filed for bankruptcy. Unfortunately, the bankruptcy works as a financial bailout for some of these people.”
—————————–The Impact of Casino Gambling on Bankrupcy Rates:A
County Level Analysishttp://www.jeu-compulsif.info/documents/jeu-compul
sif-news/faillites-casinos-villes.htmProfessor Edward Morse, University of Creighton,
Nebraska
“Results from applying regression analysis to U.S.
bankruptcy data for 1990 and 1999 indicate that counties that legalized casinos during the period suffered individual bankruptcy rates more than 100percent higher than casinos that remained “casinoless.” On the other hand, the casino counties experienced business bankruptcy rates that were 35.4 percent less than their matching counties without casinos. Casino counties were much more likely to experience Chapter 7 andChapter 13 bankruptcies, but less likely to experience Chapter 11 bankruptcies.”———————————-
Are you being paid by the “No” Casino crowd Kansas? Are you stealing yard signs?
Heh Joe,
No, I took an adventure into actual research and decided to share it.
- Eyes wide open I say. :)
Please remember to vote NO. Kansas cannot tolerate any more sin. Remember what other posters said about the casino being an inferior product.
Kansas has too many casino’s now. The private casino’s should not have to compete against the state. We will be competing for those precious revenue dollars. It’s UNAMERICAN.
Vote no, please.
Well intriguing.
I’ve done my own also. I talk to the people who live and work near one. Just got off the phone from a person who lives in Kingfisher, OK. Ask him about the Casinos and their effect.
Good conversation. I’m voting Yes, Yes! Although I will never step foot inside of one. I don’t gamble, but there are a whole host of reasons that has persuaded me that a Casino in Wichita will be positive thing.
Good luck “No” Crowd!
Joe, I would consider a fair question to you is if you are being paid by the county commission to pimp the arena and the casino. Are you?
“In gambling, the many must lose in order that the few may win.” George Benard Shaw
Kansas- I read half of your first post, got board, and skipped to bottom.
Everyone else- Wouldn’t you have thought that the Chamber wouldn’t have taken a position on such a controversial issue that is clearly split among the businessmen?
I went to some Las Vegas Casinos when there was a convention there.
I tell ya Joe (and others) it is extremely sad to see people gambling away thousands of dollars because they simply cannot stop themselves!
People talk about the poor, the hungry and the underprivileged.
The amount spent on Gambling is more than the top 5 Fast Food chains make in Gross Earnings in an entire year!
That’s a lot of cash folks!
Dorothy,
Please reference the George B. Shaw quote I entered in a post before yours.
Also recognize that the amount Americans gamble each year could more than pay for programs for the poor, those who need medical care and those under privilege folks.
One of the posts you probably didn’t read shows that Oklahoma has 80 casinos. That is more than some foreign countries have in their entire country!
Why do we want to invite this tax on people who really can’t afford to pay it. Gambling is a tax, but instead of the majority of it going to the government, it goes to the wealthy few.
For all of you Liberal Democrats constantly complaining about the rich, if you support Casinos in Sedgwick County, then you will not have a leg to stand on when complaining about the rich.
Sumner Co was allowed in the running so that the state would still get the revenue from Wichita if SG CO voted it down. Topeka thought this through…
Let them gamble Kansas. They are going to do it anyways. There is so much access and exposure to gambling, hell! Again, it’s in every gas station and grocery store in the entire state.
I know people who give their entire life savings to Televangelist. Or they give up half their earning to churches, thinking they are helping out, but most of the money goes towards the Pastor’s house, BMW’s, and building a bigger Church.
I know people who spend gobs of money on video games. Play 100 hours of week, just playing video games. Or how about the people who spend their life away on illegal drugs and booze?
I know a lot of people who lost their money at Wild West World.
And our number one addiction? Oil! Every family spends thousands of dollars a year on gasoline alone.
Global Gambling Revenue: This is world wide, 2006 figures! $101.6 Billion.
Fast Food restaurant sales, USA alone! $173 Billion.
Point taken Joe.
However the other effects that come along with gambling are linearly achieved as each year passes that gambling is introduced to an area.
Everything appears normal until about five years down the road, then reality sets in and is quite painful.
It’s not a given that Sumner will get one if SG votes it down. Someone must be willing to spend almost a quarter billion $… I’m not convinced it’ll pay back sufficiently to an owner if it’s not in Wichita or Park City.
Geez, it looks like mostly all one poster on this thread… and that one poster keeps on re-iterating its position, over and over, and over…. OK Kansas… we get it… You dont want a Casino!!! The WHY is not important… The religious stuff really isnt important on gambling… I am sure somebody else could come along with a long list of verses to counter nearly any of those… but nice piece of Concordance work, though… :-)
The vote is coming… I know how I am going to vote on the Casino issue… I think Wichita deserves a go at it… Maybe its something we can be good at!! Might even provide a whole bunch of jobs, in a variety of work areas… entertainment, wait staff, accountants, security personnel, bartenders, food preparations, electrical workers, sound engineers, all kinds of work opportunities… It is really amazing how many people it takes to run one of those operations!!
I hope it gets a chance!!
“No, I took an adventure into actual research and decided to share it.
- Eyes wide open I say. :) “Posted by: Kansas | July 26, 2007 at 10:10 PM
You mean like your “actual research”, and the lies you posted MULTIPLE times about the Sierra Club, and the New Orleans levees?
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/07/open-thread-713.html#comment-75802340
Not to mention all of your lies about the IPCC, climate change, my posts, etc..
Credibility is very fragile — and the multi-named ‘Kansas’ seems to have NONE.
Ah, the “bitter one” cosmos rears his ugly head.
I wonder if we started prohibition for some of the same arguments used against gambling?
Was Kansas getting in touch with his feminine side?
Kansas(sic),
I’m not “bitter”… I’m just posting the truth.
And I’m laughing at you, the multi-named Kansas, because you post lies to support your false opinions.
And because since you’re a proven liar, all you can do is make false personal attacks against me.
And because you did it to yourself.
You do believe in personal responsibilty… don’t you? :)
Well cosmos,
Someone who keeps posting the same bitter posts towards me day after day indicates a very sick mind.
You so obsessed with me, you will post under any topic just so you can get your bitter little digs in.
You are very ill cosmos, seek help.
You are re-posting material from May cosmos, think about it. What you are doing is stalking me.
And that will no longer be tolerated on this Blog. Understand?
Kansas(sic),
So you’re saying that the readers of WE Blog should ignore the lies you posted twice on May 26, one time using J M Walker’s nic?
And they should ignore the SAME lies you posted less than a month ago, on July 1 ?
Heh… whatever. I’ll let the readers decide. :)
No cosmos, I’m saying to you to stop stalking me and posting the same post over and over directed at me.
It indicates you are a very ill person to keep repeating the same post over and over.
Just remember all of you compulsive gamblers will answer to the Lord about this.. I will pray for each and every one of you that votes Yes on this issue and remember that most gamblers go to hell
Let the compulsive gamblers answer to the lord, but leave me my entertainment of choice. If this month I want to drop a $100 at the casino istead of at Crown Uptown isn’t that my choice? Why do Christians feel it is their right to dictatct my life choices. I don’t go down to my local church and dictate their choices, although with the incidents of child abuse in christian churches perhaps some one should.
Well Len, I think you hit the nail right on the head. Thes “pseudo-” christians want to dictate to everyone exactly what the moral code for the community, state and nation should be. They sound surprisingly like the Islamic Taliban.
NO-YES is looking more and more like the best vote. A ‘de facto’ casino at the Dog Track while not having the issues with downtown.
Having see the proposals for the track if they get slots it looks like everything we would expect from a casino - hotel, restaraunts, shows, etc.
Ben, et al: Just curious about the dog track:
1) Does the dogtrack currently offer beer and/or mixed drinks?
2) Do dogtrack security people check people entering so they do not admit underage people, people who have been drinking, poor single mothers with kids in tattered clothing and/or husbands desperate to win grocery/rent/Christmas present money, etc?
3) Does the dogtrack facility now offer dinners?
4) Did the racetrack get annexed recently by the City of Park City?
5) Is there a public opening between the dog track property and the wonderful old Kansas Coliseum and three Pavilions property with its 5,000 automobile flat-surface parking?
6) Does a management company currently manage the Dog Track facility?
7) Do they ever run horses on the Dog Track?
8) Does the Dog Track facility make a profit?
My reason for asking these questions is I haven’t actually paid much attention to the Dog Track facility.
JWink, limiting my answers to those things I have certainty about, not having been to the dog track myself: No horses run on the dog track; they do televise horse races. The dog track is operated by Mr. Ruffin’s organization. According to Mr. Ruffin’s son, the track has been losing $80,000 per month lately.
I think the attempted annexation was reversed. And, I ‘think’ they serve food.
I have never been there though so am simply supposing.
When it first opened, one could have lunch or dinner at the track. Don’t know what the current food service is there now.
On Aug. 1, 2007 Jim Schuster, CEO of Hawker Beechcraft Corp., sent an email to all employees urging them to vote no against bringing a casino and slot machines to Wichita and Sedgwick County. Mr. Schuster says in his letter that “preserving our community’s values and character is critically important to the long term success of Hawker Beechcraft.” I wonder what happened to Mr. Schuster’s values and character when he stood on the tailgate of a truck and announced that all 400 of the wire-harness jobs were going to stay here in Wichita because of the hard work and dedication of the employees in that department, yet a year later nearly all 400 of those jobs were shipped south of the border to Mexico. For him to now appear concerned about this community is a slap in the face to every one of those people. Expanded gambling in Wichita is a huge issue and each of us should become educated about it. All I would say is be very careful who you listen to. I can assure you that there are others just like Jim Schuster that care more about the almighty dollar than the workers that create that dollar.