Two interesting items about the White House communications gurus past and present:
Asked by GQ magazine where “there was a failure to communicate” regarding the war, former communications czar Dan Bartlett said “there was never a more benign incident that turned into a bigger messaging problem than ‘Mission Accomplished”’ — the banner bearing the mission motto of the U.S.S. Lincoln, which became the backdrop for the president’s May 1, 2003, speech aboard the carrier. “It set the wrong tone for what became a protracted, difficult mission. If there was ever a do-over, that would be it.”
Discussing the timing of President Bush’s commutation of “Scooter” Libby’s sentence Sunday on Fox News, Bill Kristol of the Weekly Standard said that the White House knew Bill Clinton would be campaigning with Hillary Clinton in Iowa on July Fourth. He said Ed Gillespie, the new White House communications czar, suggested the commutation’s timing, accurately predicting the Clintons would take the bait and, in the process, spark days of debate about the Clinton pardons.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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In addition to the Bush Family Evil Empire: Scandal Du Jour, I’m starting another white-knuckle ride down the roller-coaster of truth I call
LYING REPUBLICAN HYPOCRITES–THEN AND NOW
1999
I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious of traitors. — George H.W. Bush2004
If there’s a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is. If the person has violated law, that person will be taken care of. — George W. Bush2007
I. Lewis ‘Scooter’ Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, was sentenced Tuesday to 30 months in prison for lying to investigators looking into the leak of a CIA operative’s identity. He also was fined $250,000. Libby was convicted March 6 of four counts in a five-count indictment alleging perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements to FBI investigators. — CNN2007
When the court came back, according to reports from the ground, the judge has set up a process for which Scooter Libby and his attorneys can appeal both the judge’s decision today, as well as the jury verdict. And given that and in keeping with what we have said in the past, the President has not intervened so far in this or any other criminal matter, and so he is going to decline to do so now, as well. — Dana Perino
2007
The Bush administration is trying to roll back a Supreme Court decision by pushing legislation that would require prison time for nearly all criminals. … In a speech June 1 to announce the bill, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales urged Congress to re-impose mandatory minimum prison sentences against federal convicts – and not let judges consider such penalties “merely a suggestion.” — Associated Press2007
Libby may be behind bars within weeks after a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit today denied his request for release. … U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton refused to let Libby stay out of prison during his appeal – which might take more than a year to resolve – saying that evidence of his guilt was “overwhelming.” — Bloomberg News
2007
I’m not sure that you can take anybody who has a perjury count and say that they’re all the same. Every count has to be considered differently. The President, as you know, looks very carefully at these things. — Tony Snow1999
In the week before (Karla Faye Tucker’s) execution, Bush says, Bianca Jagger and a number of other protesters came to Austin to demand clemency for Tucker. “Did you meet with any of them?” I ask. Bush whips around and stares at me. “No, I didn’t meet with any of them,” he snaps, as though I’ve just asked the dumbest, most offensive question ever posed. “I didn’t meet with Larry King either when he came down for it. I watched his interview with (Tucker), though. He asked her real difficult questions, like ‘What would you say to Governor Bush?’” “What was her answer?” I wonder. “Please,” Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, “don’t kill me.” — Talk Magazine2007
I respect the jury’s verdict. But I have concluded that the prison sentence given to Mr. Libby is excessive. Therefore, I am commuting the portion of Mr. Libby’s sentence that required him to spend thirty months in prison. — George W. Bush1998
If we ignore this evidence, I believe we undermine the rule of law that is so important that all America is. Mr. Speaker, a nation of laws cannot be ruled by a person who breaks the law. Otherwise, it would be as if we had one set of rules for the leaders and another for the governed. We would have one standard for the powerful, the popular and the wealthy, and another for everyone else. — Former Rep. Dick Armey (R-TX)
1998
As the Supreme Court said in the “United States vs. Holland,” quote, “Perjury, regardless of the setting, is a serious offense that results in incalculable harm to the function of the legal system, as well to private individuals,” end quote. In my judgment, perjury goes to the heart of our judicial process and our very system of government and constitutes a “high crime and misdemeanor.” What happens if we fail to act? It appears to me that we quietly embrace and even aid in the gradual subversion of our core belief that we are a nation of laws and that all of us regardless of wealth or power, deserve equal treatment in the eyes of the law. — Former Rep. Asa Hutchinson (R-AR)
2005
And secondly, I certainly hope that if there is going to be an indictment that says something happened, that it is an indictment on a crime and not some perjury technicality where they couldn’t indict on the crime and so they go to something just to show that their two years of investigation was not a waste of time and taxpayer dollars. — Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchinson (R-TX)
1998
Perjury is not sex, obstruction is not sex, abuse of power is not about sex. It’s important to understand that none of the proposed articles include allegations of sexual misconduct. The president is not accused of marital infidelity because such conduct is essentially private. But when circumstances require you to participate in a formal court proceeding and under oath mislead the parties and the court by lying, that is a public act and deserves public sanction. Perjury is a crime with a five-year penalty. — Rep. Henry Hyde (R-IL)2007
President Bush, in defending his decision to let “Scooter” Libby escape prison in the CIA leak cases, argued that at least he would have to serve two years of probation. However, the federal judge who handed down the commuted 30-month sentence, pointed out Tuesday that, technically, this does not hold – since Libby did not serve any prison time at all he does not have to face probation. — Editor & Publisher1998
I fear for my country when conduct such as perjury and obstruction of justice is no longer viewed with approbrium but instead is viewed as a sign of legal finesse or personal sophistication. — Former Rep. James Rogan (R-CA)2007
I am very happy for Scooter Libby. I know that this is a great relief to him, his wife and children. While for a long time I have urged a pardon for Scooter, I respect the President’s decision. This will allow a good American, who has done a lot for his country, to resume his life. — Former Sen. Fred Thompson (R-TN), July 20071998
The third thing that I think is important to point out here is that we have a constitutional obligation, a constitutional obligation to act. And there are lots of folks who would counsel, Listen, let’s just move along. It’s sort of the Clinton so-what defense. So what? I committed perjury. So what? I broke the law. Let’s just move along. I believe we’ve got a constitutional obligation to act. — Rep. Bob Inglis (R-SC)2007
Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, who as Massachusetts governor refused to pardon an Iraq war veteran’s pellet gun conviction, on Tuesday called U.S. President George W. Bush’s commutation of Scooter Libby’s prison sentence “reasonable.” — International Herald Tribune1998
First, perjury and obstruction of justice drive a stake in the heart of the rule of law. When the Constitution was ratified, it was christened as the grand American experiment. America stood alone in being governed by the rule of law as opposed to the rule of kings, tyrants, czars, monarchs, emperors, chiefs, sheiks, lords, barons and lords, and even nobles. To our founders’ credit, they created a republic based on the rule of law rather than a nation being based on the whims of man. The American legacy is that we have become the beacon of liberty to nations around the world who seek systems of government just like ours. We have an obligation to preserve the heritage of the rule of law now and for future generations. — Rep. Steve Buyer (R-IN), 19982007
Scooter Libby does not deserve to go to jail. I would remind Joe Wilson that Scooter Libby did not leak Valerie Plame’s name. Richard Armitage told Robert Novak, we now know, about Valerie Plame’s name, so this was an investigation that should never have happened. There was no underlying crime. — Bill Kristol
1998
But if the same law applies to everybody equally, that’s the American tradition. And that’s what we’re looking at. This has not anything to do with sex; it has a lot to do with suborning perjury, tampering with witnesses, obstructing justice, and perjury, all of which impact on our Constitution and our system of justice and the kind of country we are. — Former Rep. Henry Hyde (R-IL)
2007
I think what the judge did today argues more in favor of a pardon because this is excessive punishment … This is a very, very important – a man’s life is at stake. And the reality is, this is an incomprehensible situation. They knew who the leak was and ultimately, there was no underlying crime involved — Rudy Giuliani
The United States Attorney in Manhattan, Rudolph W. Giuliani, declared yesterday that the one-year prison sentence that a Queens judge received for perjury was “somewhat shocking.” … If sentences as lenient as this one had been given to the Watergate burglars, he added, the whole Watergate affair would not have been uncovered. — New York Times
Great post, Capn.*****************************
I think Dan Barlett would like us to focus on that stupid banner now, and forget what Bush actually said.
Some choice snippets:”Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. (Applause.) And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country.”
” Because of you, the tyrant has fallen, and Iraq is free. (Applause.)”
We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We’re bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We’re pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime, who will be held to account for their crimes. We’ve begun the search for hidden chemical and biological weapons and already know of hundreds of sites that will be investigated. We’re helping to rebuild Iraq, where the dictator built palaces for himself, instead of hospitals and schools. And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by, and for the Iraqi people. (Applause.) ”
“The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 — and still goes on.”
“The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We’ve removed an ally of al Qaeda, and cut off a source of terrorist funding.”
Uhm, yeah. Major combat operations ended on that day, our glorious victory over an ally of Al-Quaeda who had weapons of mass destruction!
All lies.
This jackass had zero credibility even in 2001, but I guess it took a while for a big chunk of the nation ot wake up and smell the coffee (Sigh. . . ).
Link: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/05/20030501-15.html
The news media compared Bush’s pardon of Libby with Clinton’s pardons ad-nauseum.
There is a big difference, though. Bush is pardoning a person instrumental in the effort to propagandize the public with false intelligence in the lead up to the failed oil war in Iraq. Libby and this administration’s outing of WIlson’s wife as a CIA asset was, in addition to being highly illegal, part of a continued effort to prevent information that questioned the false pro-war propaganda from seeing the light of day.
Now Bush has pardoned someone who has the goods on exactly what happened behind the scenes over a prolonged period and who could easily implicate Cheney and Bush himself in involvement.
Therefore, in pardoning Libby, Bush is, in effect, buying Libby’s silence in order to keep his and Cheney’s war crimes concealed – crimes which resulted in the disaster in Iraq which the entire country is now paying and the entire political and media establishment is desperate to escape.
Problem is, there is no way out. Libby was part of the conspiracy that got us in this mess – and Bush just next to guaranteed his silence. This is another crime and cover-up, in and of itself.
Nothing new there, though.
What does it say about Hillary’s campaign that she brought in Slick Willy so early?
They’re married.
Yet another Bush Bashing post. YABB
Bore
The Clintons’ Cronyism Circus
Dick Morris & Eileen McGannSaturday, July 7, 2007
Former President Bill Clinton and Sen. Hillary Clinton are absolutely outraged that President Bush granted executive clemency to Scooter Libby, recently convicted of making false statements under oath.
They obviously believe that Libby should serve his 30 month sentence.
Does that mean that they now think that perjurers should go to jail? Or have they simply forgotten about Bill Clinton’s own plea agreement in the last hours of his presidency — for making false statements under oath?
Some people would call that perjury.
One would have thought that Hillary and Bill Clinton wouldn’t touch the Libby executive clemency issue with a ten-foot pole — for lots of reasons.
After all, Bill Clinton has a well-earned reputation as the king of pardons — granting 140 of them during his last minutes in office — with many going to terrorists, people who had paid Hillary’s brothers to arrange for pardons, contributed money or key support to Hillary’s Senate campaign, given the Clintons expensive personal gifts, and/or made large contributions to Bill Clinton’s presidential Library.
One of the pardons went to Bill’s own brother, Roger, while another went to Susan MacDougal, who kept quiet about Clinton during the Whitewater trial.
That’s really cronyism, Hillary.
Given the disgraceful Clinton record on pardons, most reasonable people would have kept quiet — especially when Libby’s offense was so similar to Bill’s own criminal conviction. But the self-righteous former first couple couldn’t resist. Once the clemency was announced, Hillary immediately attacked President Bush, saying, “This commutation sends the clear signal that in this administration, cronyism and ideology trump competence and justice.”
Hey, Hillary, do you understand what cronyism really means?
Cronyism is favoritism shown to friends and supporters without regard to their qualifications. And that’s what Bill Clinton’s pardons were all about. Except, as usual, the Clintons went way over the top. So, in addition to granting pardons to undeserving friends, Bill Clinton also pardoned undeserving strangers who paid his family, friends, campaign coffers, and presidential library.Now Bill and Hillary claim that his highly controversial pardons were “different” than the Libby clemency.
He’s absolutely right . . .
The big difference was that many of the Clinton pardons were patently bought and paid for — something event the Clintons don’t claim to be the case in the Libby commutation.
Hillary’s brothers were paid more than $500,000 to lobby the president for pardons that were then granted to con artists and drug dealers. For a fee of $400,000, Hugh Rodham successfully pushed for a pardon for drug kingpin Carlos Anabel Vignali, convicted of shipping a half-ton of cocaine from L.A. to Minnesota.
His father was a big contributor to the Democratic Party: He gave more than $150,000 to the Los Angeles Democrats. Obviously, the investment was a shrewd one.
That’s cronyism, Hillary. Get it?
Tony Rodham advocated a pardon for Edgar and Vanna Jo Gregory. The Gregorys, who owned a carnival company, defrauded a federal bank. When the pardon was publicized, Hillary stated that Tony was “not paid” by the Gregorys for his work on the pardon. Tony repeated that line on the “Larry King” show.
After an investigation, the House Government Operations Committee disagreed and announced that Hillary’s statement was inaccurate. Now, a federal bankruptcy court overseeing the carnival company’s bankruptcy is about to rule on whether over $100,000 paid to Tony Rodham at the time of the pardons was a loan or payment for “consulting.”
The Gregorys contributed over $100,000 to Hillary’s campaign and other Democratic causes. These folks were well known to the Clintons. They visited them at Camp David and were hired to stage two carnivals on the White House grounds — paid for by the taxpayers.
That’s cronyism, Hillary.
When the Rodham brothers’ exploits were made public, Bill and Hillary announced that they were “shocked and saddened” by the disclosure. At the time of the pardons, the Rodham brothers were actually living in the White House with the Clintons and had made contact with the highest level of presidential assistants. But the Clintons claimed that they were totally unaware of what Hugh and Tony were doing.
But, it wasn’t just Hillary’s family who benefited from the Clinton cronyism. Bill’s brother Roger was pardoned for his drug conviction, and he was allegedly paid $30,000 to promote six felons, although those pardons were never granted.
That’s cronyism, Hillary.
The most outrageous Clinton pardons went to 16 members of the terrorist gang, the FALN, a Puerto Rican nationalist group responsible for over 130 bombings in the U.S. — attacking the New York office of the FBI, military recruiting headquarters, and even former president Jimmy Carter’s Chicago campaign office. Six people died and dozens more were injured as a result of FALN’s actions. These terrorists never even asked for a pardon, but because Hillary wanted to ingratiate herself with the Hispanic population in New York during her first Senate race, they were suddenly granted a commutation of their sentences.
Although the commutations were opposed by the FBI and the Clinton Justice Department, Bill Clinton granted them to all 16 terrorists. Once again, Hillary claimed to have “no involvement in or prior knowledge of the decision.”
Her statement is ridiculous.
Two days before the announcement of the pardons, New York City councilman, Jose Rivera, personally presented Hillary with a packet of materials including a letter asking her to “speak to the president and ask him to consider granting executive clemency to the prisoners.” What a coincidence: The sentences were immediately commuted!
Hillary, that’s another example of cronyism.
Joe Connor, the son of one of the innocent men killed by the FALN terrorists at the Fraunces Tavern in Manhattan, put it this way: “The Clinton family traded the release of terrorists for votes, votes that were promised to be delivered by New York politicians to Hillary for Senate and Gore for president. That was clear.”
That’s cronyism, Hillary.
And Hillary actually has the audacity to accuse President Bush of cronyism!
This woman has no shame.
Then, of course, there was also Marc Rich, the fugitive oil broker who renounced his American citizenship. Rich was illegally buying oil from Iran during the American trade embargo and hid the $200 million in trading (and over $100 million in profits) with Iraq using dummy transactions in off-shore corporations.
Ironically, Scooter Libby was one of Rich’s lawyers, while Rudy Giuliani was the U.S. Attorney who brought the indictment. Amazingly, the U.S. Attorney’s Office was never contacted by the White House for input into the pardon decision.
Here’s what the prosecuting attorney had to say about the pardon: “I cannot imagine two people that were less suited for a presidential pardon than Marc Rich and Pincus Green [the co-defendant]. It is inconceivable that President Clinton chose to pardon the two biggest tax cheats in the history of the United States who had renounced their citizenship, been fugitives for 17 years, and who had traded with the Iranians during the hostage crisis. While I do not know what motivated President Clinton to pardon Rich and Green, I can state that it is implausible that those pardons were based on his evaluation of the merits of the case . . .” (For more, go to http://www.jurist.law.pitt.edu/pardonsex8.htm.)
Interestingly, Rich’s wife bought furniture for the Clinton’s Chappaqua home and contributed at least $450,000 to the Clinton Library.
That’s cronyism, Hillary.
Finally, there were the four New Square pardons. There, the Hasidic defendants were convicted of pocketing $40 million of federal scholarship money. Hillary visited the community, and on Election Day the community supported Hillary 1,400 to 12. Weeks later, on December 22, 2000, President Clinton met with the New Square leaders to discuss a pardon. Hillary attended the meeting, but claims that she did not speak.
Apparently, she didn’t have to — the pardons were granted.
That’s cronyism, Hillary!
Copyright Dick Morris & Eileen McGann 2007
I get it Hank! President Clinton abused the pardon process.
And that makes it OK for bush to do “whatever (insert your choice)” and still come out smelling like a rose.
BILL CLINTON! BILL CLINTON!
Bush hasn’t given any pardons.
Hey Linda!
Finally one of the libs ‘gets it’!
Compared to Clinton every politician I know comes out smelling like a rose!
Hank
Bush hasn’t given any pardons.Posted by: Republican | July 10, 2007 at 09:56 AM
Really?
=======President Bush Pardons 14 PeopleWASHINGTON, Sept. 28, 2005(CBS/AP) President Bush granted pardons Wednesday to 14 people, including a member of the mineworkers union who was convicted for his role in bombings at a West Virginia coal mine, a counterfeiter and a bootlegger.
Jesse Ray Harvey of Scarbro, W.Va., was given a 25-month sentence in 1990 after his conviction for using explosives to damage Milburn Colliery. The mine had been the target of a long strike by about 45 members of a United Mine Workers local.
It was in reference to the Libby case.
Still, 58 pardons in an 8 year period by Bush compared to Clinton is quite small.
I believe Nixon is the champion of pardons though. Man must have been signing pardons all day long every day he was in White House.
President Bill Clinton granted 396 in eight years
President Bill Clinton granted 396 in eight years
former President George H.W. Bush, granted 74 in four years
BILL CLINTON! BILL CLINTON!
George W. Bush pardoned a terrorist bomber, and he did it AFTER 9/11. Good grief, people, get a freaking clue.
The Constitution needs to be amended to remove this power from the President. Any President. Period.
BILL CLINTON! BILL CLINTON!
Posted by: Tom | July 10, 2007 at 10:34 AM
You’re DAMN right Tom. You want to criticize Bush for Scooter, then you open the door to past presidential pardons. You want to put Bush up against a blank background? YOU get a clue and look at the last prez. Look at the scum HE pardoned.
BILL CLINTON! BILL CLINTON!Damn right. Before you remove the splinter from my eye…
Tom I hadn’t had the pleasure of ‘meeting’ you during the Clinton terms. Were you this dogmatic then about the pardons he granted?
BILL CLINTON! BILL CLINTON!
George W. Bush pardoned a terrorist bomber, and he did it AFTER 9/11. Good grief, people, get a freaking clue.
Posted by: Tom | July 10, 2007 at 10:34 AM
If you were please accept my apologies for the reference to Clinton all the time. If not then please acknowledge that comparing this prez to the former prez is what the public does. Clinton will always be compared to Bush until he becomes unimportant in the grand scheme of things. As long as his wife is running for the job of prez – he is relevant. Accept it.
The troll claimed Bush hadn’t given any pardons. 10 seconds with google proved otherwise, and an additional 10 seconds turned up Bush’s pardon of a terrorist bomber. Bush pardoned said bomber _after_ he should have learned the lessons of 9/11.
The title of this blog entry is appropriate: “Dancing with the White House spin czars.” You’re trying to spin this into BILL CLINTON! BILL CLINTON!, but that’s not the point.
The point is this: The diehard Bush supporters will do anything, everything, to distract from the issues at hand.
And tell me – how many people did Clinton pardon in the middle of his administration who were part of an active investigation _into_ the administration? Clinton could certainly have pardoned the McDougals and shut down Whitewater. But he didn’t – don’t forget that Jim McDougal died in prison. He didn’t pardon Susan McDougal until after he’d settled his legal issues, and she had served several years in jail.
Not even Nixon pardoned his co-conspirators.
oh hank, no one cares about Hillary, Bush is one gigantic scew up and the nation is worse off because of him.
all you guys ever do is Hillary, and Clinton ….
Oh and Dick Morris is just mad cause Clinton Fired him so he writes made up crap and the RW idiots buy his books along side Coulters drivils… Its all crap
Tom,
I am FAR from a Bush supporter, but Bush bashers seem to have lost the ability to see beyond the red in their eyes past Bush. How many people bought pardons from Clinton?
How about Marc Rich? Accused of evading $48 million in taxes and illegally trading with Iran in oil DURING the hostage crisis.
There’s a winner for you there.
Pardoned his brother?
Former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Henry Cisneros, Whitewater scandal figure Susan McDougal, Patty Hearst and former CIA Director John Deutch.Think any of them had dirt on Clinton. Huh.
Henry Cisneros, who served as secretary of Housing and Urban Development during Clinton’s first term in office. He was convicted of making false statements to FBI agents conducting a background investigation of him when he was nominated to the Cabinet post in 1993.
Sound a little familiar?
I won’t post the full list out of respect for the other readers.
Before you remove the splinter from my eye…
Tom what active investigation would that be. The leaker is exposed I thought.
Sol,
Last time I checked, our current president is George Bush, not Bill Clinton. Last time I checked, this thread is about how the current administration spins, spins, spins.
If you want to talk about The Eeeevil Clintons, there are other threads, other days.
And what I’m saying to you is this: You prove the very POINT of this thread, which is: The Bush administration does everything it possibly can to change the subject from its own ineptitude, its own malfeasance, its own mendacity. I quote from the originating blog post:
“Ed Gillespie, the new White House communications czar, suggested the commutation’s timing, accurately predicting the Clintons would take the bait and, in the process, spark days of debate about the Clinton pardons.”
You’re making me dizzy with all the spin.
Ksgrm,
Do you really think Congress is through with this matter?
LOL!!!
Just because the White House says it’s over, doesn’t make it so.
Tom-
The problem is, the Clintons did take the bait, interjecting themselves into the debate, hence making their sins relevant once again. With Hillary running for the Presidency, and all the talk during the Clinton Prsidency about getting a “two for” it is relevant.However, it does not take away from Bush doing the wrong thing, again, and pardoning Libby. Not unexpected,for lots of reasons, but still wrong.
Tom, if you think that spin was originated by Bushco then I agree, you are quite dizzy. If you want to look at bushco and only bushco, then you relegate yourself to solely a bush basher. One trick pony then Tom?
Timing? What about the timing of Clinton’s last 140 pardons? Huh.
Apples to apples. Nope, not with Tom. Apples to nothing. Much easier for you then isn’t it Tom?
BTW, I don’t agree with the pardon. Don’t agree with one trick ponies either.
clinton clinton clinton
he must be all powerful to have you guys shaking in your boots still even tho this current imposter of a president has been in the whitehouse over 6 years.
thats all you guys have…okay so ya wanna bring up mark rich???Who do you think was his lawyer??? Thats right Scooter
I can’t wait till bush and co are gone then we will find out the true cost of their corruption. Halliburton and KBR are so proud of their puppet too
littlejohn,
I wanted to thank you for your post (11:17 a.m.). Your ability to see, understand and reason is refreshing. When more of us get to where you seem to be our country may make progress.
Sol,
Have you so completely run out of valid points that you post, twice in a row, that you consider me a “one trick pony”?
You don’t have to answer if you don’t want to. The question is rhetorical.
Leave,
I agree with Bush being out of office and that Halliburton and KBR need to be deeply investigated. The problem I have is one trick ponies that want to bash bush and excuse what former presidents have done.
You want current relevance? Here you go…
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385×37889
Once again, there was no pardon of Mr. Libby. There was a commutation of the prison sentence.
Tom,
Uh, yeah. You read it twice. Do you not get it?
Littlejohn,
What annoys me endlessly is how, on almost every single thread possible, the hard-core Bush supporters twist everything back to BILL CLINTON! BILL CLINTON!
And see how well it works? We’re no longer discussing the Giant Spin Machine that _defines_ this administration, and we’re back to BILL CLINTON! BILL CLINTON!
It’s no surprise most Americans have completely tuned out the political process.
Tom maybe this congress needs to do what it was elected to do. That could be why they have the lowest rating in modern history. Chasing red herrings. Leave you will have a long wait.
Ksgrm,
This Congress was elected to get the US out of Iraq. It hasn’t happened yet. Hence the low approval rating.
So Tom, what were your valid points again?
Bush commuting Scooter’s sentence = badBut don’t talk about Clinton.
Bush’s face people spin topicsAnd no other politician does?
Bush’s commutation timing…But don’t talk about Clinton’s timing?
Seems to me all you are saying is don’t talk about Clinton. Don’t talk about ANYTHING but bush.
Sounds like a one trick pony to me. Bash bush, but don’t look or speak of anything else.
Apples to apples. Nope, not with Tom. Apples to nothing. Much easier for you then isn’t it Tom?
Posted by: SolDevVB | July 10, 2007 at 11:18 AM
you are calling those that are angry at bush one trick ponies yet all you can give me is crap on the clintons.. Who have been out of the whitehouse for 6 years…
oh to see the irony ….
its the clenis, its the clenis…keep saying it cause its all your side has…must be one powerful penis
“I believe Nixon is the champion of pardons though.”
Nope. FDR, with around 3500.
Wake me up when the lunatics leave. (That gives me what, forever to sleep?)
So, which Presidents do we want to bash along with Bush?? How about Reagan??? or Nixon??? Or Bush the Elder??? Lots of stuff we could do there… But, like Tom says, any time we go after ANY of them, all we hear is BILL CLINTON, BILL CLINTON!!!
It’s typical squirrel and bear stew. The repukes’ crimes are bear and when anyone calls them on them, they point to the squirrel and say, “you do it too.”
But, ignoring that, we DO have a problem with the Clintons. They represent a political type who has been very BAD for the Democratic party–the value-less “pragmatist,” cutting deals, compromising endlessly, triangulating, poll-watching. Theirs is the politics of the lifetime bureaucrat.
We need candidates who 1. have core beliefs, and 2. aren’t going to “reach across the aisle” to sell out those beliefs.
Clinton and his pathological narcissism is the reason we have Worst. President. Ever. in the White House now.
Al Gore had to run AWAY from Clinton at the same time he tried to run AGAINST Governor W.
What is my side Leave?
Is Bush a fu(k up? You betcha. Is he the only fu(k up? Don’t bet your house on it. When Hillary jumps on the bandwagon and compares the pardons of her husband to that of Bush, yup, Clinton is back in the topic. Are the Clinton’s ‘your’ side Leave?
Why are you fixated on penis Leave?
We have learned many things about being a Republican. Senator Vitter just reinforced one of my favorites. That one is that you can get away with being a pompous moral hypocrite while committing all kinds of moral failings, because in the end you can always play the God card and be forgiven.
Being a Republican sounds fun. No accountability. You can gamble, cheat on your wife, lie people into wars, and still act like a bastion of morality. See, there are lots of reasons to be a Republican. Plenty of benefits, just like the one mentioned above. I have some for you, and please, add your own.
Here are a few more of my favorites:
A Republican can get away with being called strong on leadership, even if they are weak on leadership. In some cases, if you have the audacity to do so, you can even write a book called: “Leadership.”
Being an expert on foreign affairs and national security matters, does not require you to have any experience in the field or to ever be right on anything, for that matter.
Like a frightened baby chipmunk, you fear anything that is different than you, and your base loves you for it.
Serious character flaws, such as racism and sexism, are actually beneficial to your career advancement.
While writing a book, you can say any batshit thing you want, never check to see if your “facts” are correct, and completely lie out of your hate-mongering ass, and it will make you millions of dollars.
No matter how foolish, stupid or treasonous you are, you will always have a cushy, high-paying think tank job waiting for you.
Being dumb, or at least acting dumb, is considered a plus with your voting base.
You do not have to have any sense of irony or shame, whatsoever.
And my favorite, the law should be Draconian but, it does not apply to you or your cronies, and if someone tries to hold you accountable, you can simply say three magic words to get out of the predicament. “Go cheney yourself.”
Chas. Clinton was the last president. Why NOT compare the present to the former? Makes sense doesn’t it?
Tom and Chas.
I understand your frustration, and actually, your point. The misdeeds of the Clintons are often used to change the subject about Bush misdeeds. However, the Clintons interject themselves, making them relevant to the conversation—
a small snippet:”You’ve got to understand, this is consistent with their philosophy,” Clinton said during an interview on Des Moines news-talk station WHO.
Bush administration officials, he said, “believe that they should be able to do what they want to do, and that the law is a minor obstacle.”
WHile I may or may not agree, He has interjected himself. That makes he and his administration relevant to the news about the current administration
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/04/clinton.libby/index.html
Good post, Leave.
I totally agree.
The Republican base values stupidity. It’s why that hard-core 25 percent will never leave the Stupidest President Ever.
CapnAmerica
You mean, like the 30% of the Democrats that believe Bush instigated, or knew exactly what would happen, before 911?The Democrat base apparently values craziness.
However, I did like your 11:44 post.
LJ…you know better than that
:)
“Dancing with the White House spin czars”
This relates to every president that has ever sat in office.
About as much sense as trying to compare this war to the last one… No, it really doesnt… Because I dont sense any type of “comparison” — All I saw from the Right when Clinton was President, was 8 years of constant Clinton Bashing… none of which ended in any criminal actions… Yet, when WE Bash bush on the war, or anything else, then we are leftists, or new commies, or nazis, or anti-american, or UnAmerican… Do you know that one of the most PRO American Parties BEFORE WW II in this country, was the Nazi Party(not that I would ever agree with them)… WE are not the ones who are trying to put government on the backs of the American People… Thats the Republicans… marriage amendment… change social security… anti-this, anti-that… ALWAYS some kind of government intervention into the private lives and choices of PEOPLE… Thats the Republican style…
But, if we take on that mentality, then we are “godless” or anti-american, or unamerican, or “trying to lose the war” by being against it… or any of the other glorious talking points you all come up with constantly…
The Country cannot and will not put up with much more of that kind of CRAP… It stinks… It is NOT life… It is, in fact, not terribly American, where we prize debate, and diversity… not shun it… where we believe that the right to protest IS patriotic, not the reverse…
yeah,
Maybe I do, but it was fun to engage in hyperbole for just a moment. But unfortunately there was a poll done and the 30% number was correct.
Remember he wanted Clinton to resign over a blowjob!
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/10/vitter-flashback-cl...
Vitter Flashback: Clinton should resign.Sen. David Vitter (R-LA) first got his start in Congress after replacing former Rep. Bob Livingston (R-LA), who “abruptly resigned after disclosures of numerous affairs” in 1998. At the time, Vitter argued that an extramarital affair was grounds for resignation:
“I think Livingston’s stepping down makes a very powerful argument that Clinton should resign as well and move beyond this mess,” he said.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!CONTACT INFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Contact Senator ” I sleep with whores” Vitter and demand he resign!
Call and write alot
maybe we can dry this piece of slime up!
http://vitter.senate.gov/?module=webformIQV1
Acadiana800 Lafayette St.,Suite 1200Lafayette, LA 70501Phone: (337) 262-6898Fax: (337) 262-6373
Baton Rouge/River Parishes858 Convention St.Baton Rouge, LA 70802Phone: (225) 383-0331Fax: (225) 383-0952
Central Louisiana2230 S. MacArthur Dr.,Suite 4Alexandria, LA 71301Phone: (318) 448-0169Fax: (318) 448-0189
_____
but its different when its a repuke right…
Did anybody hear today about that great God believing country where a man was STONED to death for adultery in PUBLIC… Of course, it was deemed necessary, because RELIGION runs that country…. THATS the kind of laws that happen when RELIGION rules the courts… instead of LAW… That country is IRAN…
Want to live in a Country where Religiion reigns supreme??? Go live in Iran… or Saudi Arabia… or Indonesia…
I think Clinton got what he deserved with the whole Lewinsky thing.
Nevermind that it was a man in his 50s having sex with a 19 year old.
It was the boss having sex with the hired help, on company premises, on company time. If I had ever caught any of my employees doing that, they’d have been fired immediately.
Tom — Just a question… My wife keeps wanting to know why ANY woman, ANY where, would keep a stained dress for THAT long, in a nice box under her bed… And if they were having SEX, how did it get on the dress, unless they had their clothes on???
Sounds like somebody had future plans for that blue dress, kept in a nice box, under a bed for so long…
Can you say: SET UP, Mr. President??
Chas,
I have to correct you. The present political party in office is Neo Con. Far from a conservative in the classic sense. I have distanced myself from that party and lean towards Libertarian.
There are no Republicans in office nor running for president, save one. It is a shame that the Neo Cons have taken the GOP over and have become a pre-emptive war party, a big government party, and party that takes away civil liberties.
I for one will no longer say that the current Neo Cons are republicans nor do they do the GOP any credit.
So those of you that label me as Republican, you are correct. In the classic sense only, not the crap we have today. I do not support Bush, and I do not support Bush Bashers. If you want to take what Bush has done to screw up, and screw up PROUDLY he has, then you have to be able to defend those actions against what the last president has done.
Any discussion of presidential pardons has to begin with the pardons of Caspar Weinberger and the Iran Contra Five by George H W Bush at Christmas 1992, three weeks before he left office and on the eve of their trial.
Whatever Clinton may have done by pardoning Marc Rich pales in comparison.
I am not disagreeing … I am just saying that the hypocrites spin and spin away when the shoe is on their foot…
This DC Madam’s list is likely to spur some great fun…Firt up Vitter…who by the why has a wife comparing herself to Ms. Bobbit…Well lop away honey he cheated..
oh but its okay now cause god forgave him…Haggard..its okay cause god forgave him too
I hope Cheney is on this list thousands of times…I even hope bushy boy is on the list…but I don’t think Mr. Ashe is on ms. pelfry’s payroll
they make me sick…
Vitter is not my Senator, I shall leave it up to his constituents. THey shall decide. He represents them, not me. He did, however, own up to it. Well, I guess only sorta. He kinds slimed his way around it. His bad. Stand up and be a man, even when wrong. Easier to move on. I would be looking for a new person to represent me if I were from Louisiana, probably. Don;t know enough about the guy to say for sure, but fidelity is important to me. Is it forgivable? maybe. I would have moved on about Bill if he would have just said Yea, I did it, I am sorry, I am working it out in my personal life. Politicians, as well as everyone else, needs to learn that. I don;t know that he should have been impeached. i would have probably waited until he left office, then tried him for perjury and whatever else there was.
Oh, and when Paula Jones stepped to that microphone with the lawyers from Christian Coalition(i.e., Pat Robertson), I knew then there was some kind of a set up in progress…
“Nevermind that it was a man in his 50s having sex with a 19 year old.”
Monica Lewinsky was 21 – the 19 age is a Sean Hannity figment – and she had had a history of affairs with old men in positions of power.
LJ–
Regarding 9-11, I think that Bush was told repeatedly about the terrorist threat but didn’t concern himself about it because 1. it was a Clinton “thing” 2. he was focused on Iraq 3. he had a “special relationship” with the Saudi aristocracy that blinded him to the threat Saudis posed.
It DOES say something very bad about Worst. President. Ever. that so many people believe he would be capable of allowing 9-11 to happen so that he could force his marshal law and war down our throats.
After the Swift Boating of Kerry, the stealing of the Florida election, the political payback against Valerie Wilson, the political payback about DOJ prosecutors, the pardoning of Libby to buy his silence of Bush-Cheney crimes, the unconstitutional warrantless wiretaps, the endless lies to drive the country to invade and occupy Iraq, the secret meetings with polluters to draw up environmental policy, the outsourcing of Iraq to cronies, the stone-walling of the 9-11 commission, the stone-walling of the Senate Intel Reports, etc. etc., it’s hard to know where this mis-administration will draw the line on their criminal activity.
So no wonder so many Americans would believe that Bush is capable of allowing 9-11 to happen.
It’s consistent with everything else he’s done.
“but its different when its a repuke right…”Posted by: leave | July 10, 2007 at 12:00 PM
Negative. Vitter should resign. I only hope he takes Rudy down with him in flames never to return. And I hope Vitter gets royally hosed in the divorce. His wife has stated that she is not like Hillary in that she would forgive, but more like Lorena Bobbit (sp?).
We’ll see if she keeps her word, and his…
Just when you think CapnAmerica is someone you can be reasonable with…
He comes out with his Bush let 9-11 happen conspiracy theory.
You are smarter than this. Why do you believe crap like this?
“Bush hasn’t given any pardons.”Posted by: Republican | July 10, 2007 at 09:56 AM
Note “any pardonS”, = multiple
“It was in reference to the Libby case.”Posted by: Republican | July 10, 2007 at 10:29 AM
Bush had a good reason for giving a commutation, instead of a pardon.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19649910/site/newsweek/page/0“In part, Bush may have stopped short of a full pardon precisely to keep Libby and other White House aides away from Democrats on Capitol Hill. Investigators in Congress are eager to call Libby to testify about the Plame case and prewar Iraq intel — an invitation Libby can continue to resist by claiming he can’t talk as long as his appeal remains alive in the courts.”
And because Bush’s attorney has mostly corporate, not federal law experience,’NYT’: Libby May Not Even Serve Probation — Due to Possible Bush Errorhttp://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003607208
Once again, my stupid little inner child comes out, but ever thought about the Irony of Lorena Bobbit and her actions? I am sure you have, but it just cracks me up sometimes.
Congress should go ahead and give Libby transactional immunity. Then grill the hell out of him!
Ummm Nathan… CapN didnt agree with the 9/11 conspiracy theory… PLEASE read before you type???
Time for Vitter to resign in disgrace! After all, it is what HE would want!
CapnAmerica-
I understand what you are saying, even though I don;t agree 100% with what you are saying. And I realize that you are saying you buy into the Bush instigated 911 theory, still, I find it preposterous to think that it be true. But then, I am just a poor country boy and don;t know the ways of the world :)
Sol… my reference to Republicans wasnt directed at you in particular… but to those who do those kinds of things, that you call Neo Cons… Right now, they put a R after their names… not NeoC… So, ok, I am objecting to the antics of the Neo Cons, and not the “classic” Republican ideals…
Oh My! My bad! CapnAMerica I am sorry.
“And I realize that you are saying you buy into the Bush instigated 911 theory,”
Should have read :
” And I realize that you are not saying you buy into the Bush instigated 911 theory,”
Color me red
Correct, Chas.
I don’t believe in MIHOP (made it happen on purpose) or LIHOP (let it happen on purpose).
But I do believe that a reasonable person would have done more to prevent 9-11.
No one has ever explained why top officials like Ashcroft were warned not to fly commercial by July of 2001, for instance. Nor have the strange financial dealings (currency surge right before 9-11) ever been investigated publically.
I agree with Bill Mahr: “9-11 was not a national tragedy. 9-11 was a f*** up by a guy on vacation.”
It given all the heinous things that Bush has done, it’s no wonder that many people would believe that 9-11 is just one more . . .
Cap you are going to lose the right to be Captain of America if you keep on rewriting history. The Switfboaters were veterans just as Kerry was. They had the right to give their side of the story. What man takes a video camera to war with him afterall?
The Florida elections were counted, recounted, recounted again and each time Bush won. The SC had to be brought in because time was slipping by and we had no prez.
No political payback against Plame was ever proved. Quiet the contrary. The leak was outside the White House and the libs just couldn’t accept that.
List the Bush/Cheney crimes you refer to. It is great to sling innuendo but baseless without merit.
What endless lies did they tell. Hillary by her own admission used Albright as her information person. It seems everyone had the same info. That is a major reason she hasn’t changed her position on initially voting for the invasion.
What secret meeting with the polluters are you talking about? What cronies were outsourced to? Would that be Feinsteins husbands company which has received billions of no bid contracts?
I could go on and on but I am sure you see the picture. All baseless allegations thrown around like they are truth incarnate.
No courtroom outside DC would allow these accusations in.
As for the 9/11 accusations that really points to a lack of comprehension on the 30% part of the public that believe this drivel. It’s sad that they will be voting in this next election.
Tom,
“Nevermind that it was a man in his 50s having sex with a 19 year old.”
She was born in 1973. It happened in 1995 and ‘96. Do the math.
Right… there are a number of strange things that have never yet been answered about 9/11… but not enough for me to directly point a finger at Bush… YET… I sincerely hope that the finger for 9/11 NEVER points to Bush or any of his cronies… However, IF it ever does, with solid proof, I hope they punish them to the fullest extent of the Law… minus the death penalty of course..
Bush brought his religious beliefs to the presidency and the neocons and secular Zionists have simply exploited that “end-days” senario to take the form of imperialism or world conquest.
Bush is not sane.
And the cost of that so far has been nearly 4000 dead soldiers with another 30,000 maimed with arms and legs blown-off.
4 years of daily bombings has cost Iraqis a million dead and another 4 million refugees.
He’s still digging in his heels to keep on his quest.
Chas.
That post was a little iffy, no? In any case, if it were true, death penalty by drawing and quartering would be too good.
Ed where do you pull these numbers from? Out of your hat or is there some group out there in never never land who feeds your illness?
Well, I dont support the Death Penalty, but then, I dont sit on many juries either… LOL…
ED… There were all kinds of spurious religious beliefs brought to the FIRST Gulf War… I heard ENDLESS radio/tv preachers swearing on their King James Bibles that Armageddon had just begun…
Is it any wonder that Bush, Jr., kept up the facade???
Ksgrm: Now who is re-writing history?? LOL
Which numbers of Ed’s are you protesting now, Ksgrm?? I know he isnt right all the time… but these numbers are pretty much accepted…
Okay. Color me dumb, but I keep seeing Neocon thrown around like a bad thing. Please define neocon for me, as i find these definitions
“moderate political conservatism espoused or advocated by former liberals or socialists.”
” It is hopeful, not lugubrious; forward-looking, not nostalgic; and its general tone is cheerful, not grim or dyspeptic. Its 20th-century heroes tend to be TR, FDR, and Ronald Reagan. Such Republican and conservative worthies as Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover, Dwight Eisenhower, and Barry Goldwater are politely overlooked”
An intellectual and political movement in favor of political, economic, and social conservatism”"
I would like to see the confirmation of the Iraqi numbers. I don’t dispute the American numbers. It is sad that we have had so many dead and injured. I am always amazed when I talk to returnees from Iraq and they tell me what they accomplished over there. When they tell about the sincere thanks they receive from the Iraqis.
Do we count the number of Iraqi killed by the terrorists bombs as casualties of the war? How do we get the millions that Ed stated?
What history did I rewrite?
L J — apparently the definition of Neo CON has changed… I can hardly see TR, or FDR being identified as Neo Con!! FDR would be rolling in his grave over that statement…
Ksgrm, I guess if you dont know, it would do little good to try to explain it… However, as far as those numbers of War Dead, I would suggest you check out Zogby… I think you would find Zogby agreeing on those numbers too…
Mainstream Liberal Biashttp://republikan.typepad.com/republikansan/2007/07/mainstream-libe.html
KSGrm… I have talked to numerous of those coming home from Iraq as well… And about 10-1 of them tell me we are wasting our time, money, and lives in whatever it is Bush thinks we are doing there… And you know, Bush keeps saying we need to stay until we win… But I have never heard him say ONCE what “win” means!!
Chas, Whenever something like ksgrm shows-up just find a curb and scrape it off of your shoe.
I get real concerned when I hear returning Troops spitting out the very same Right Wing Talk Radio talking points that are on the air every day of the week… Makes me wonder what brain washing, errr, debriefing sessions they attended…
Chas.–Looking Wikipedia, not necesarily a great source, it seems it means whatever the one saying it means, whether they are in the movement or not. I guess I shall not worry about such labels, which are generally useless anyway.
I get real concerned when I hear returning Troops spitting out the very same Right Wing Talk Radio talking points that are on the air every day of the week… Makes me wonder what brain washing, errr, debriefing sessions they attended…
Posted by: Chas. | July 10, 2007 at 12:51 PM
Not me. They are on the ground, every day of the week. They know the reality of Iraq, not the bs of the reporters, who only see what they want to see. Some agree, some don’t. I have talked to lots of returnees. Some want to know where teh hell the press gets theirs story, Islamic Jihad? Some think while we are doing good, we are wasting our time, money, and blood. Some see nothing but bad. i suspect it is their own vision, defined equally by their own predispositions, and their physial location.
Chas on the attached link even those on your side say the max Iraqi death are less than 74,000.http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
Not my numbers. The millions that you say is true and that Ed spouted as true are a gross!!! exagerattion.
I guess you and I are talking to different people. Many think we have accomplished much while there. I will be very glad when our military are back home. I won’t discount what they accomplished or say that those who gave their lives there died in vain.
On your other point, we are fighting an enemy like none we have ever fought before so maybe the word ‘win’ has a different definition than it has had before.
Find population numbers before the “war” and then current population numbers. Polls can’t be trusted as Zionists-Jews want the Iraqi kill rate to be away below the actually numbers.
The Republicans crack me up with their spin – the subject of this thread. They act as if this administration is as pure as the driven snow, all the while screaming Bill Clinton! Bill Clinton!
The scream that Clinton should have gone to jail for perjury, but Libby should never have been tried because there was no “underlying crime.”
They scream about Clinton’s pardon of Marc Rich, while ignoring the fact that Rich’ attorney was Scooter Libby.
They scream about Clinton’s 140 pardons on his last day in office, while ignoring George H W Bush’ pardon of Caspar Weinberger and the Iran Contra Five PRIOR to trial during the Senior Bush’ last few weeks in office.
They scream that Clinton did nothing about terrorism, yet at the time, they accused him of wagging the dog.
I can’t wait to see their spin on today’s story that Alberto lied to Congress regarding the FBI abuses of the Patriot Act.
This should be hilarious.
WS Clark,
We point out the stupidity of someone like Hilary talking about the Pardon of Bush.
That is what we point out.
You want to talk about spin?
Our side is not the one actually thinking Bush let 9-11 happen or it was his fault.
You guys would stub your toe on your way to pick up the welfare check and blame Bush for it.
You know, BTK tortured and killed 10 people.
That appearently makes it okay for anyone else to do the same.**Only a freakin’ imbecile could conclude that Clinton has somehow done “worse.” At best, you clowns are stuck with the argument presented above. But even if Clinton was “worse”–so what?? It’s the classic “so’s your mom” logical fallacy.
What this proves is what I have long suspected, mainly, that at best the “morals” of you types come directly from authority, as you have no morals of your own. If the HUMAN BEINGS you WORSHIP ssy it’s okay, it’s okay. End of discussion.
Rage,
I hardly call the pardon of Libby an account of our morals or lack of them.
From our view he was caught up in nothing more than a Democrat witch hunt.
As evidenced by the lack of an answer to my fathers questions in the other thread.
“You guys would stub your toe on your way to pick up the welfare check and blame Bush for it.”
As usual Nathan, you have to get in a gratuitous insult in just to prove that you are so intolerant.
But explain to me, since you are criticizing Clinton’s pardons, how do you justify George H W Bush’ pardons of Weinberger and the Iran Contra Five BEFORE trial?
Easy question, right?
2004
If there’s a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is. If the person has violated law, that person will be taken care of. — George W. Bush
This statement is true. Libby was “taken care of” – his sentence was commuted. How is this hypocrisy? – Bush was delivering on his promise… and YOU PEOPLE want to give him crap about that???
Nathan, now surely you wouldnt accuse World Net Dail, or Alex Jones of being Liberals, would you?? They are two of the greatesst purveyors of the 9/11 conspiracy theory around… They ARE NOT liberals, by any stretch!!
Rage my fixation on the Clintons is because one of them is trying to get back in the White House. I do look at life beyond this week unlike the libs.
She was the mastermind behind the health care debacle, the travel gate scandel, hiring a bar bouncer to protect the white house and hundreds of illegally procured FBI files of DC dignitaries… Do I need to go on? If you can’t see why Clinton is relevant – well take an aspirin and call me in about ten years and maybe this discussion will be over.
Hey boy,
The ammo box is in the back of my truck. If you want it come and get it. Mamma is making me throw it away.
Pa
Steven,
I don’t believe libby was found guilty of leaking anything.
They already knew who the leaker was.
So what is your point?
“From our view he was caught up in nothing more than a Democrat witch hunt.
As evidenced by the lack of an answer to my fathers questions in the other thread.”
One – I answered Mr. Price’s questions yesterday – he just didn’t like my answers.
Two – It certainly wasn’t a Democrat which hunt since it was conducted by a Republican appointed prosecutor and judge.
This is the right place for your lies, Nathan, the thread is about Republican spin.
Ok dad, I will be by a bit later…
Perhaps Mom could fix me too.
WS –
“Dancing with the White House spin czars”Refers to any president whom has ever sat in office.
“The [sic] scream that Clinton should have gone to jail for perjury”Show the post on this thread, oh, and add the scream in there too.
“but Libby should never have been tried because there was no “underlying crime.”Show where in this thread anyone stated that.
“They scream about Clinton’s 140 pardons on his last day in office, while ignoring George H W Bush’ pardon of Caspar Weinberger and the Iran Contra Five PRIOR to trial during the Senior Bush’ last few weeks in office.”
Do you really want to look at that list? And why stop with just the 11th hour pardons, let’s take a look at ALL of Clinton’s pardons…
“They scream that Clinton…”Exactly how DO you scream on a blog.
Did you major in Drama/Theatrics WS???
WS Clark,
Where have I lied?
Shouldn’t you be hiding in your basement?
AIDS can happen to you!
Nathan — ONE MORE TIME WITH FEELING…. Libby was not found guilty of leaking anything…. He was tried, convicted, and sentenced for Perjury and Obstruction of Justice… NOT for leaking anything!!!
Can you POSSIBLY try to comprehend that??? I mean, at leasdt TRY???
“I don’t believe libby was found guilty of leaking anything.”
He was found guilty of perjury, the same thing you folks wanted Clinton in prison for.
Except Clinton was never convicted.
“As evidenced by the lack of an answer to my fathers questions in the other thread.”
I answered – you lied.
“From our view he was caught up in nothing more than a Democrat witch hunt.”
Nathan, even if true (it’s not), that doesn’t somehow explain away 4 felony convictions. Please explain why 4 felony convictions should be set aside or ignored. You don’t even need to delve into the legalities (and you won’t, but that would be a complete loser for you)–let’s hear a MORAL argument about how obstructing an investigation into possible treason is no big deal.
Until you can do that, it’s just more pointless spin.
Rage-
This comment is factually incorrect and/or”Nathan, even if true (it’s not), that doesn’t somehow explain away 4 felony convictions. Please explain why 4 felony convictions should be set aside or ignored”
In fact, no felony convictions were set aside. No convictions were ignored, only part of the sentencing. Now, I disagree with the commutation of the sentence. But no conviction was set aside
The convictions were c
Yes…Libby is awful..his version of the story differed from a MSNBC Reporter and a Time Magazine News Writer, both with conveniently faulty memories on a lot of the questions asked.
Yeah, that’s plausible…(cough, gag, spit)
“AIDS can happen to you!”
Nathan, what is your fixation regarding my HIV status? That is just creepy.
Are you some sort of voyeuristic pervert?
For the last time, as a responsible sexual active adult, I have my blood checked every few years. I have sex as most adults do – having my status checked periodically is the responsible thing to do.
Aren’t you Republican, so-called Christians, supposed to be the Party of Personal Responsibility?
Damn, Nathan, you are a creepy young man.
AaaMen to that Clark!! Ditto to that!! Another example of “spin”
“Do you really want to look at that list? And why stop with just the 11th hour pardons, let’s take a look at ALL of Clinton’s pardons…”
George H W Bush, six pretrial pardons, all against Federal DOJ guidelines.
Bill Clinton, one suspect pardon, requested by one Scooter Libby.
George W Bush, at least one sentencing commutation, against DOJ guidelines.
Mr. DevVB, I would be happy to debate the merits of Clinton v. Bush pardons.
You first – justify the pardons of Cappy Weinberger and the Iran Contra Five.
My comment…………..
“I have sex as most adults do”
Republanks attempt at spin……….
“WSClark has sex with most adults?”
Nice try Blank One, but you deliberately twisted my words.
What a joke you are…….
And………………
“Is WSClark, the non-Christian spewing his moral values?”
Only Christians have moral values?
Not likely.
Besides, what does having my status checked periodically have to do with moral values?
Or are you going to start with the “accusations” of homosexuality again?
Dumbass hypocrite.
“In fact, no felony convictions were set aside. No convictions were ignored, only part of the sentencing.”
Sigh . . I knew I shouldn’t have used that term. . . .I was not claiming “set aside” in the legal sense, as in struck from the sentence. I meant “set aside,” as in ignored or belitted, as if as felony offenses involving national security are no big deal.
In fact, a commutation is much worse–a pardon, at least, suggests a view, erroneous or not, that the conviction was not just. Bush indicated–and said–that the sentence was not just. And defense lawyers around the country have taken notice, as they should.
But given the severity of the charges, it’s a indefensible claim.
Republican,
“Yes…Libby is awful..his version of the story differed from a MSNBC Reporter and a Time Magazine News Writer, both with conveniently faulty memories on a lot of the questions asked.”
Republican, Nathan, Hank, et al should educate themselves by reading Fitz’s sentencing memo.
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/files/sentencing_memo.pdf
But I suppose they prefer to lie and spin instead.
. . or struck from the record. Whatever. Null and void (I’m tired).
WSClark-
I believe you have repeatedly stated that bringing up Clinton is irrevelant to the current administration, being six years ago. If true, then the BUsh sr. administration being 14 years ago, is how relevant?
My contention is that CLinton is indeed relevant, because he makes himself so, including the current Libby fiasco, by commenting.
Clark, I think any attacks on your sexuality should be considered offensive… dont you??
Something should be done about such things, dont you think???
No thanks Rage, I’ll wait until the official court transcripts are released, not the Prosecutor’s spin on the outcome.
Go for it Chas, I fear no one.
You atheistic piece of Liberal Monkey Cheese Spewing Scum.
My post was merely dripping with sarcasm. I anticipated it would waaaaaaaaay too subtle for you. Reptilian minds [sic] don’t get subtley too well.
My greater point is that people like Nathan, germ and Hank are not just not disinterested in the truth, they are in fact interested in the suppressing any truth that is contrary to the set of lies that they are so invested in.
It has been disputed here numbers of times that the CIA considered Valerie Plame to be covert or undercover – thus their original complaint about Novack’s article. Yet, ideologues here will repeat the same disputed argument that she was not undercover or covert over and over again (and over again, ad naseum).
In fairness to the ideologues here, I heard this week the head editor of the Wall Street Journal arguing this same false argument about Plame’s status at the CIA on the Diane Reem show. Noone on the show even bothered to dispute this undeniably false story.
So, my take home message here is, the folks here who seem like brain dead idelogues are not really guilty of fascism (though their methods are similar), instead they are guilty of a pervasive group-think that makes up the right-wing mind set these days. They should be pitied rather than censored or argued with.
Aruing with germ, Hank or Nathan on this subject is God’s way of telling you that you have waaaaaaay too much time on your hands.
Thank you.
Oh and Steven Davis, here’s an in-your-face answer.
Libby was commuted by the President.
Tuck that away in your vest pocket. :)
“as if as felony offenses involving national security are no big deal”
Okay. Maybe I got picky. I do have a question though, to the statement shown:Didn;t Fitzgerald refuse to allow any mention of whether or not Plame was covert until AFTER the Trial and during sentencing? If it was about that, why would he do so?
Real question on my part. If it truly was about “naitonal security” why didn;t he go for the jugular. I would have.
Yep something definitely needs to be done about such obnoxious and offensive posts….
LJ, Fitz was circumspent throughout the whole process. He was very careful about what he said, and what he released.
I rather think he didn’t want to try the case in the media.
“circumspect”
“Libby was commuted by the President.” ONLY the sentence of 30 months, repub… NOT the conviction… at least not yet…
“Didn;t Fitzgerald refuse to allow any mention”
Because the charges were perjury and not leaking the identity of Valerie Plame Wilson.
Easy.
The “no underlying crime” defense does not work.
It is not an excuse for lying to the FBI or the Grand Jury.
Republank just thinks he/it is being humorous by questioning someone’s sexuality, Chas.
Like a sixth grader.
Or maybe that should be – like a third grader?
“Yep something definitely needs to be done about such obnoxious and offensive posts….”
Posted by: Chas. | July 10, 2007 at 01:55 PM
Yes, we should get the WE Blog to do something about WSClark’s profane and offensive posts.
I can pull up a couple hundred of those if you like Chas.
“Libby was commuted by the President.” ONLY the sentence of 30 months, repub… NOT the conviction… at least not yet…
Posted by: Chas. | July 10, 2007 at 01:56 PM
Libby is having dinner with his wife tonite, not in Prison.
I bet that just irks the Demz.
I can hear the throb of their veins and arteries as the increase in fatal blood pressure rise. :)
Republican,
“I’ll wait until the official court transcripts are released, not the Prosecutor’s spin on the outcome.”
Since you don’t know the FACTS, stop claiming the the convictions were wrong.
‘Friends in High PlacesInside Bush’s decision to give Scooter Libby a pass.’http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19649910/site/newsweek/page/0“Bush asked Fred Fielding, his discreet White House counsel, to collect information on the case….But Fielding, one of the advisers tells NEWSWEEK, reluctantly concluded that the jury had reached a reasonable verdict: the evidence was strong that Libby testified falsely about his role in the leak.”
“If true, then the BUsh sr. administration being 14 years ago, is how relevant?”
The issue brought up by the Republicans was Clinton’s pardon of Marc Rich nearly seven years ago.
If that is a valid point, then so is the George H W Bush pardon of Cappy Weinberger and the Iran Contra Five nearly fifteen years ago.
Goose and gander and all that…..
I would highly suspect Clark’s posts, to which you refer, might be responses to your offensive garbage that this Blog has to put up with Day after Day after Day, ad infinitum, ad nauseum…
Go for it, Republank, you have already tried to get me banned. How is that working out for you?
Hypocrite.
Go for it, Republank, you have already tried to get me banned. How is that working out for you?
Hypocrite.
Posted by: WSClark | July 10, 2007 at 02:03 PM
You’re right I failed to get you banned. My bad.
You just ran away to another Blog with your tail tucked between your legs to become part of the Fisters.
“I would highly suspect Clark’s posts, to which you refer, might be responses to your offensive garbage that this Blog has to put up with Day after Day after Day, ad infinitum, ad nauseum…”
Posted by: Chas. | July 10, 2007 at 02:02 PM
Chas, one question…
How is Clark’s butt smelling? I mean your nose is so far up it, you should be an expert on WSClark scent.
For the ninety-ninth time, I supported the boycott out of respect for Linda Inks who was called a slut by one of the resident right wing trolls.
……. something the right wingers have never denounced.
Hypocrite.
But you are welcome to TRY to get me banned again, Republank.
In fact, try it everyday – go for it.
Because the charges were perjury and not leaking the identity of Valerie Plame Wilson.
The “no underlying crime” defense does not work.
It is not an excuse for lying to the FBI or the Grand Jury.
Posted by: WSClark | July 10, 2007 at 01:56 PM
Exactly, and I do agree.—————————-” rather think he didn’t want to try the case in the media.
Posted by: Rage | July 10, 2007 at 01:56 PM
You could be right, that would be so unusual that I just never thought of it——————————
The issue brought up by the Republicans was Clinton’s pardon of Marc Rich nearly seven years ago.
If that is a valid point, then so is the George H W Bush pardon of Cappy Weinberger and the Iran Contra Five nearly fifteen years ago.
Goose and gander and all that…..
Posted by: WSClark | July 10, 2007 at 02:02 PM
I would normally agree, however, the issue in my mind is that CLinton, bby interjecting himself, made himself the issue. I haven;t seen any news about Bush Sr doing the same. Hence, the validity of bringing Clintons pardons in question, bush BUsh sr.’s being irrevelant
NOW you go after MY sexuality, because I stand for decency on a public blog??? You are one friggin hippocrite!!! Just another mad dog frothing at the mouth!!!
So… essentially, you guys are saying, as much as you hate the Clintons, bush is just as bad?
And that is the standard you set? Bush only has to be not as bad as Clinton.
I see. Clearly.
And you?
Walk on by…
What does your nose have to do with sexuality Chas?
Are you confused about that too?
How about loaning out some of those exclamation points. Quit being a selfish punctuation hog.
Clark, I really DO think something can be done about this kind of garbage… All of the sexual slurs, and phony accusations, that have NOTHING to do with the Thread… I KNOW something can, and MUST be done about this… Because THIS CRAP is what this vulgar little man has the audacity to call his precious “Kansas Values”
Furthermore, you repugnant little man, my punctuation is NONE of your business… Who died and made you an English major??
I just love all this wingnut spittle, froth and arm waving. Bottom line? It’s just damn tough being a wingnut these days. Very little good news for you all.
So we’ll excuse you for changing the subject, the personal attacks, the nonsensical denial of the truth.
We know. It’s just damn tough to be a wingnut these days.
We’ll look the other way while you have your self righteous hissy fits.
Then we’ll kick yer asses in the next election. Count on it. The stars might lie but the numbers never do.
Well, why don’t you call me Repuke Chas? I mean you do it every day.
Or would it show that you are really the hypocrite you really are. :)
Let’s hear it atheist boy.
Chas, yer feeding the troll. Like putting terry, joe or fred on the front page, it gives the troll what it wants.
The best response? Just walk on by.
This thread started heading down into the sewer of personal attacks a few hours ago. And like a shark drawn to blood, the troll makes its appearance and turns this into a name-calling free-for-all.
Ignore the troll, folks. Nothing to see here. Move along.
If you don’t feed it, it will stay under its bridge.
Why shouldnt I call you Repuke??? You should be used to it by now from everybody else that thinks you are repugnant…
It’s an easy walk. Ya know, he “aint got nothin’”
Farmgrrl,
Get out of my head!
Furthermore, you repugnant little man, my punctuation is NONE of your business… Who died and made you an English major??
Posted by: Chas. | July 10, 2007 at 02:16 PM
A – Clever.
B – Almost clever
C – Not clever.
D – Lack of wit.
You are correct if you chose “D.”
Why shouldnt I call you Repuke??? You should be used to it by now from everybody else that thinks you are repugnant…
Posted by: Chas. | July 10, 2007 at 02:18 PM
There ya go!
Hypocrite 101 by Chas. :)
Hey Tom, have ya talked to our mutual friend? We had a great time July 4.
So… essentially, you guys are saying, as much as you hate the Clintons, bush is just as bad?
And that is the standard you set? Bush only has to be not as bad as Clinton.
I see. Clearly.
And you?
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | July 10, 2007 at 02:13 PM
I am a little lost here, but I personally think Bush is a terrible President. I don;t see him as the evil genius portrayed here by some, adn then alternatively as the dumbest human being on earth. I do see him as way too caught up in his own opinion, and sometimes dumber than a box of rocks. I think Clinton becomes relevant when he speaks out about issues and the character of the current president. I hav repeatedly asserted that libby did the crime, he should do the time. Nathan, Hank, Republican, etc,. cannot see the tree because of the forest.
That’s it, Repub. Challenge him to a fight behind the bleachers!
Sigh. . .Steven is right. KFG too. I just naively expect their programming to eventually trip up on reality, silly me.
I’m gone. Have fun, folks.
Tom, KFG, I just dont happen to think that the rest of the Bloggers should have to be subjected to all of this GARBAGE day after DAY after DAY… I happen to think that there must be something that can be done about it… And when I find out what, I will let you all know…
Republican represents real Kansas “values”, and Kansas “mindset”. /sarcasm OFF
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/open_thread_28.html#comment-71041282
Hee hee hee Tom. But the inside of your head is so much nicer than mine….
I like the way you’ve decorated it!
“I happen to think that there must be something that can be done about it… And when I find out what, I will let you all know…”
Posted by: Chas. | July 10, 2007 at 02:20 PM
Threat number 10,232. Bore.
“And when I find out what, I will let you all know…”
Good luck with that. This isnt the first blog he’s stunk up.
In the meantime, just walk on by…
Ahh, the ultimate “everybody look at me ego troll” cosmos appears.
The ego troll even links to his own posts numerous times daily so he can get his Id stroked! :)
“I KNOW something can, and MUST be done about this.”
I have an idea. How about a boycott? Let’s send private emails back and forth. It would be cool! We could even come up with a name for ourselves.
Chas,
Have you noticed that the responsible conservatives around here largely ignore the troll? They aren’t going to attack it, but they aren’t going to spend any time defending it, either. The only people who talk to it are those who disagree with it. Just think – if we stop talking to it, it will be _completely_ ignored.
Ahhhh, that will be a blessed day…
More walk on by material…
I would recommend “Blisters” fleettwood – the other name didn’t work out so well.
Chas.
Awww man. Let them speak. Free speech and all that. Just “ignore”
Now why would we take the risk of giving out our private emails??
I just love watching Cosmos kick wingnut butt. Every damn day. You’d think by now they’d be sick of it.
Must be some kinda masochistic thing.
Kick away Cosmos, dont let me interrupt.
Or you could just walk on by…
“And WSClark called a woman of the same age, KSGRM worse names for weeks on end.”
Yes, I called KSGrm a lying hypocrite for claiming that Clinton did nothing about the Cole attack because “he was busy lying to the Grand Jury and to Hillary.”
The Grand Jury testimony was two years before the Cole attack.
Yes, I called KSGrm a lying hypocrite for claiming that her son was stationed in the Middle East during that same attack.
The attack on the Cole was in October 2000 – her son left the Navy in 1994.
Yes, I called KSGrm a lying hypocrite for claiming that cutting foreign aid would pay for the War on Iraq in one year.
The US spends less than $10 billion a year on foreign aid – mostly to Israel – while the War on Iraq was cost the US taxpayer $675 billion and counting.
If you lie on the blog, you should expect to get called out on it.
And I am still waiting for KSGrm to post where I said that I was a “green-eyed black man.”
If you’re a lying hypocrite, you should expect no mercy.
And KSGrm is quite a bit older than me.
Republank, you called me a “Heebie” and “accused” me of being a homosexual on one of your first days on the blog as RepubliKhan.
And you tried to get ME banned?
You’re a lying hypocrite, too.
I like the way you’ve decorated it!Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | July 10, 2007 at 02:21 PM
Farmgrrl,
Hah!!! I’m very, very bad at decorating. I’m just not that kind of homo…
And no, I haven’t talked to her lately. I thought she was busy cutting wheat!! Oh, and I picked the wrong date. I’m going to be out your way the 21st/22nd, not the 28th/29th. Is that okay?
Thats a good idea Tom… until IT gets personal with sexual attacks about people he/she knows nothing about…
“Have you noticed that the responsible conservatives around here largely ignore the troll?”
Posted by: Tom | July 10, 2007 at 02:24 PM
Ah, you must mean GMC, the man who I ferociously defended from attacks by J R and KFG against his personal character and occupation.
You do remember those day long attacks on GMC don’t you KFG and JR?
Are we breaking out in hypocrisy Blisters yet KFG and J R? :)
typical repukes
do as I say
forget what I do
They are all worthless pos
just like their puppet bush
meanwhile, you have repuklican a 400 lb person who claims to be disabled living off the very programs his puppet bush wants to shut down
“the other name didn’t work out so well.”
Fists of Fury reminds of babies when they are poopy and crying and needing changed.
“My greater point is that people like Nathan, germ and Hank are not just not disinterested in the truth, they are in fact interested in the suppressing any truth that is contrary to the set of lies that they are so invested in.
It has been disputed here numbers of times that the CIA considered Valerie Plame to be covert or undercover – thus their original complaint about Novack’s article. Yet, ideologues here will repeat the same disputed argument that she was not undercover or covert over and over again (and over again, ad naseum).”Posted by: Steven Davis | July 10, 2007 at 01:51 PM
My contention that you gloss over again and again:The original investigation was about the leak. Fitz knew before Libby testified who the leak was. Novak has told this. Also he and Armitage were under sanctions not to discuss this until the trial was over.
Can you say ‘fishing expedition’? Fitz was trying to catch Rove, Cheney or some White HOuse person and failed miserably. Libby was the only fish he could catch and he set a trap for him. Read what the jurors themselves say about this trial now.
They felt duped and said Libby should have been pardoned.
You can spin all you want – she can be covert or not – I don’t care. Fitz set a trap and because Libby remembered something differently than two media people he was found guilty.
Chas I don’t know how you define offensive but you are in the wrong company to be doing any complaining.
The Clintons will be relavent as long as they are in the public eye. They want to stay there so they will just have to put up with the heat.
Maybe some of you libs should read the news daily. Your leading candidate is Hillary Clinton – trying to get back in the white house.
Chas,
It’s just trying to bait people. It lives for the personal attack, the character assassination, the vicious smear. The more shrill its attacks become, the more its exposed for what it is: a troll.
Notice how leave the troll shows up mysteriously, wonder which one of the Libs that is. :)
I bet happy shows up next.
And the troll perfectly proves my point with its 2:29 post…
“unemployed alcoholic”
**ahem** He prefers retired and tipsy.
Heh Tom! I am stereotypical. I decorated my whole house in brown and white. Not brown and cream. Brown and white. Doesnt show the dirt :)
July 4 was the first day off she’s had since the first of May. I’m glad she decided to spend it here, eating fried chicken and swilling sangria (ok, sipping in her case :) with the rest of us farm girls and guys.
It was a great time. And yes, the 21/22 is just fine. Always glad to see ya!
Fleet, doesn’t your lack of intelligence qualify you for some sort of disability payments?
It must be a bitch for you to go through life with an IQ of 63.
“It must be a bitch for you to go through life with an IQ of 63.”
Oh, snap! Not a nice thing to say to a proud 6′5″, 250# Black man.
Heheeheheh. All this whining about germie, and we dont know a damn thing about him/her other than what we read here. Fantasy. You all act like she’s some real sweet grandman. Who reads over at freeperville, etc?
Whatever. Treat this figment of cyperspace how you will. It’s just another name on the screen.
And one that deserves it’s own walk on by….
oh repuke, I am not a troll. I am here to stay and to call you on every crazy post you try to spin. Get used to it boy
KSGrm – have you found my post yet where I claimed to be a “green-eyed black man?”
Still waiting, or did you make that one up, too?
So Tom, wanna talk about the weather now? :) It’s my way of walking on by….
Two friends who dont always agree having pleasant conversation. What a concept. Sorry I missed Rage.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74564578
Cool Tom. And you know, I’m big enough to qualify as my own group! I’ll leave the light on and have dinner (supper?) on the table.
Again the ego troll cosmos links to his own post. Talk about narcissism.
Never trust a skinny chef…
KFG check out that post… That was Repub saying he was going to show up at your house on the 21st…
“I plan on showing up your house on the 21st KFG.Maybe we can do a ‘group hug?’”
Posted by: Republican | July 10, 2007 at 02:35 PM
Farmgrrl,
I’ll probably leave Wichita around 11ayem or so. That should put me out there around 2:ish, right?
Email me directions, please!
Uh oh. Sorry, my bad. Even I couldnt believe repub would invite himself. Like he could find me. I dont think he can actually find his own ass with both hands, much less my place in the middle of nowhere.
But I’ll still leave the light on and cook dinner for Tom!
LOL Chas! I didn’t see that myself – I’ve developed a blank spot where the troll’s posts used to be.
Long and short—Bush got us into a war where we don’t belong.Bush miserably mismanaged the war and/or didn’t have the right staff to plan the war AND exit strategy.Bush has a spin team.Bush pardons people for personal reasons.
Most presidents pardon folks for personal reasons.Show me a politician w/o a spin machine.
Does this excuse Bush for spin and pardons? Certainly not, but with all this hoopla, you’d think he invented it.
Directions on their way soon. Anytime is fine. We’re easy out here. Hell, most of my pals and I just say sometime after sunup and before sundown.
I’ll cook anything but chicken :) I’ve eaten so much poultry I think I may sprout feathers. Baaawk!
Wonderful things those satellite images, public court records and GPS. :)
WS I don’t normally talk to you but I’ll make an exception today.
I have corrected any statement you might have taken exception to. I know my son was in the first gulf war and was not in the service when the Cole was attacked. Not sure of the context we were arguing about that day.
As for the other: You have claimed to be Jewish (by your Paternal grandfather – an impossibility), german, irish, native american. Whatever anyone is – you say me too.
You call people liars and worse daily. Contribute nothing of merit to any discussion. Have a filty mouth and a small mind and are constantly patting yourself on the back or have chas do it for you.
What you know about me is what I have chosen to share with this blog. I am the mother of 3 sons have been married to the same man for over 40 years, have 8 grandkids I am very proud of, am a co-owner of a small business that employes over 30 people – which we worked long and hard to establish.
I was a democrat before the party was hijacked by ultra liberals who thought raising taxes to re-distribute the income is the way to go. I live in fear of a Hillary Clinton and socialized medicine getting in office.
There you have it. Not one cuss word, a few personal attacks, and that is who I am.
There are some libs on this blog who are interesting to discuss things with. You aren’t one of them.
Walk on by
Well farmie that is what I would expect from you. I will say that on ocassion you show some intelligence on some subjects but most of the time you fall in the quagmire with WS. On other blogs the libs and cons trade ideas. We both come away richer. They don’t try to shout down the opposition, they encourage diversity. Wow what a concept. I find that the one who holler loudest on this blog are the ones with the smallest minds.
So keep on walking, and keep that head hanging down, wipe the tears from your eyes. It can get better if you let it.
On what basis would you have to question my ETHNIC heritage, KSGrm? I never said that I was Jewish by faith, I said that I am of partial ethnic Jewish heritage – that is a fact.
The rest is true also – Native American (via my maternal grandmother) African American and Irish (via my maternal grandfather) Norwegian (via my paternal grandmother and German (via my paternal grandfather.
Any problem with that?
I have studied my family genealogy for ten years.
Any problem with that?
And you said that your son was in the ME at the time of the Cole attack and he KNEW that it was al Qaeda behind the attack.
How is that a matter of failing to remember the dates?
As for calling you a liar – you have been called out many times on this blog for making up your own facts.
And I am still waiting for you to copy and paste where I said that I was a “green-eyed black man.”
Was that a lie on your part too?
If you lie, someone is going to remember it and call you out.
Get used to it.
I don’t think she was saying that to you, Ksgrm. I think she was saying that to the troll’s threats of stalking.
I could be wrong.
WS also claims to be ‘multi-racial’ based on having a niece or nephew of mixed race.
Pretty neat trick WS, changing your ethnicity based on a niece and/or nephew.
ksgram…you are not the only one who has had family serve. The dems did a horrible job what with great gas prices and peace and prosperity right…its so much better now with over 3.00 a gallon gas and an endless war and endless corruption scandals and cronism right…
jebus you people make me sick
KSFARM girl..I do believe repukelican is stalking and actually threatening you…
“WS also claims to be ‘multi-racial’ based on having a niece or nephew of mixed race.”
Copy and paste where I have ever said anything remotely close to that, Mr. DevVB.
I just posted my ETHNIC heritage and the source. Nowhere in there was anything about my nieces and nephews.
I have five bi-racial nieces and nephews, but that is not the source of my ethnic background, for obvious reasons.
I have stated that I am multi-cultural.
Got a problem with that?
Copy and paste, Mr. DevVB.
Shows us all where I have stated that I am multi-racial because of my nieces and nephews.
If I said it, that should be easy, right?
The dems did a horrible job what with great gas prices and peace and prosperity right…its so much better now with over 3.00 a gallon gas and an endless war and endless corruption scandals and cronism right…
jebus you people make me sick
Probably so, leave, but, like Tracy once said, I eat lightning for breakfast and crap thunderbolts, so I’m not too worried about trolls.
But I am flattered that he would go to so much trouble to find me. hehehehe. He just has to get here now.
Better pack and lunch and a jug o’ water, ’cause it’s gonna be a long day…
KFG, If you see a black Escalade wandering around your neck of Kansas with mud on it, it’s probably me. :D
blacks have more common sense than to support a party that thinks of them but mere servants…
reukelican is a lying sack of it
KFG- I’m sure you know how to handle varmits, both 2 and 4 leg models!
G
ksfrmgrll,
Speaking of spouting feathers, here’s a story about Amanda, who turns into a chicken in that well read story, “Chickens are People Too.” It kinda takes place in that part of the country, like around Mount Sunflower.http://www.fanstory.com/displaystory.jsp?id=28762
You may have to sign up to read it, but it’s free.
blacks have more common sense than to support a party that thinks of them but mere servants…
Posted by: leave | July 10, 2007 at 03:12 PM
You must mean the Democrat party. The one that promise them everything if they will vote Democrat, and give them nothing.Nothing except poverty and reliance on the government
“I do believe repukelican is stalking and actually threatening you…”
No wonder you people are afraid to defend this country. You’re afraid of Everything.I’m your shadow. BOO!
blacks have more common sense than to support a party that thinks of them but mere servants…
Posted by: leave | July 10, 2007 at 03:12 PM
Wow, that’s largely racist leave.
You must not think Black men and women are capable of thinking for themselves.
I am not scared of anything..
but I am sick of self serving hypocrites who think they are above the law.
all repukes are worthless
well repuke apparently you are NOT capible of self thought as you are constantly spouting the WH,rush/hannity talking points
so…
if it walks like a duck…
off to play…see ya all later…
Leave
leave the “racist” spews his hate once again.
WS I said that Jewish heritage – not relegion – is only recognized thru the maternal side of your family.
What I remember you saying was that Clinton had no responsibility for the Cole attack because he only had a few months left in office. I said it was known at the time BinLaden was behind it. He had an opportunity to get him and deferred. You said it was never reported and I said the pentagon sometimes knows things the news media doesn’t.
Whatever else you believe I said – sorry if you read something in it that I didn’t mean.
Leave, who exactly are you? What were gas prices when Bush took office? What was the unemployment rate? What month of a recession were we in when Clinton left office? What was Clinton’s record on terrorist attacks while he was in office?
What bubble do you live in?Get real.
Gotta go, it’s been fun but life calls.
The price of gas in the 70s, adjusted for inflation is about $4.00/gallon…much higher than it is now.
“as you are constantly spouting the WH,rush/hannity talking points”
Is that what they teach you at demo underground? Or is it daily kos?
“The price of gas in the 70s, adjusted for inflation is about $4.00/gallon…much higher than it is now.”
How dare you!
“He had an opportunity to get him and deferred.”
And when did the CIA determine that it was al Qaeda?
Answer – After Bush II took office.
What did Bush II do about the attack on the USS Cole?
Answer – not a god damned thing.
And……………..
“WS I said that Jewish heritage – not relegion – is only recognized thru the maternal side of your family.”
By Jews, I never said that I was Jewish, dumbass.
Real slow – I am of partial ethnic Jewish heritage, not “I am Jewish.”
Christ, learn to read.
And I am still waiting for you to copy and paste the “green-eyed black man” quote, KSGrm.
Still waiting.
WS there is no way I am going to ge trying to dig that up again. You remember that racist rant you went on? Suggesting that I replace the “n” word for monkey in some phrase?
You have to remember that. You were on that thread spewing your racist crap for like 4 days.
WS, in some parts of the modern world, that kind of multi-cultural background is something to be celebrated… But you know how KS Values are… They have to pick it apart, and make something of it, that isnt there… Ha!
The Google is easy Mr. DevVB, anyone can look up anything in a matter of minutes.
The fact is, I never said anything remotely like what you have attributed to me.
I just posted the sources of my heritage.
Got a problem with that?
If so, use the Google – it’s easy.
“You must mean the Democrat party. The one that promise them everything if they will vote Democrat, and give them nothing.”
Damn. Really?
Jeez, I thought the democrats only treated GAY people that way. At least in Kansas.
Clark, there are those who admit to the Heinz 57 of it all, and those who do not admit to the Heinz 57 of it all.
As noted, I’m all in favor of the benefits of hybrid vigor. Throw in adoption and cultural heritage, and it promted one of my 10 year old friends to ask me:
“Just how many parents and families DO you have?”
ksfarmgrrl-
too funny! But kinda sad, too.Reality is.
Sorry KFG… they seem to include a lot more… Gays, Liberals, Blacks, and Transylvanians… LOL… just to mention a few…
See how easy it is, Mr. DevVB?
“One other blatant lie you have told over and over is what race you really are. When I first came on you were a green eyed black man, then you became German, then Irish, then native American. Then adopted and had no heritage.
Were these lies. Oh no. Which were lies?
Posted by: ksgrm | May 21, 2007 at 06:45 PM”
How long – three minutes………….
Sorry KFG… they seem to include a lot more… Gays, Liberals, Blacks, and Transylvanians… LOL… just to mention a few…
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/sebelius_did_no.html#comment-71810770
“Naw, SD, I am not going to let DevVB get away with that type of slur.”Posted by: WSClark | June 05, 2007 at 12:13 PM
“Now, substitute the word ‘nigger’ for monkey.”Posted by: WSClark | June 04, 2007 at 07:49 PM
“If a white person willfully uses racist terms, or ignorantly uses the same term, I am going to point it out.”Posted by: WSClark | June 05, 2007 at 12:13 PM
“Now, substitute the word ‘nigger’ for monkey.”Posted by: WSClark | June 04, 2007 at 07:49 PM
“I have five biracial nieces and nephews.”Posted by: WSClark | June 05, 2007 at 12:13 PM
And Clark do you advise them as well to:
“Now, substitute the word ‘nigger’ for monkey.”Posted by: WSClark | June 04, 2007 at 07:49 PM
“Transylvanians”
What?
Sol — Ummm Here is YOUR post from that long string… I am afraid that you are twisting Clark’s words, and very poorly at that:
“My gripe is the freakin hand out *monkeys* that want to blame Bush for NO.”Posted by: SolDevVB | May 31, 2007 at 10:55 AM
“I just posted the sources of my heritage.”Posted by: WSClark | July 10, 2007 at 03:33 PM
her•i•tage Something that is passed down from preceding generations
“I have five biracial nieces and nephews.”Posted by: WSClark | June 05, 2007 at 12:13 PM
L J — it was a JOKE…
yup. Atta boy Clakie !!!
Since you brought it up, Mr. DevVB, since that time I have had occasion to ask a number of black friends what they thought of your initial statements……….
That all took offense and all considered it racist.
And I have asked numerous white friends, as well………
Each and every one said it was racist.
You may not believe it, Mr. DevVB, but most everyone else thinks that a term like “hand out monkey” is a racist slur.
I am not going to open the debate again, but since you now know how to use Google, copy and paste where I said that I am multi-racial because I have bi-racial nieces and nephews.
Easy, right?
Posting a link that proves that Republican is a long-term LIAR and nic stealer does not make me a “narcissist”.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74564578
Whoops. Atta boy Chas. And exactly which words am I twisting? They look like direct quotes. Hmmmmm. Are you reading something into them????
ws- You don’t have a number of friends, Black or white. Liar.
Chas.-
yeah I figured, it just struck me to respond. :-)
Is it difficult for you to believe, Mr. DevVB, that a man could have a distant, but direct lineage, relative that was African American AND have five bi-racial nieces and nephews?
Is that too tough to understand?
Nowhere did I state that my African American heritage was a through my nieces and nephews.
Now you are just flat out lying, Mr. DevVB.
Looking for another fight?
Ummm WS Ksgrm… Was referencing your Irish heritage,in Green-eyed Black Jew…. another poorly worded ethnic smear… as if all Irish are green eyed..
Hey Clark,Since you are multi –cultural- or whatever tag you choose to give yourself due to your nieces and nephews, why did you have to ask your ‘black friends’?
And by the way, see if they take offense to… wait for it…
“Now, substitute the word ‘nigger’ for monkey.”Posted by: WSClark | June 04, 2007 at 07:49 PM
Sol, YOU are the one that put the emphasis marks around *monkeys* in reference to NO… where we all know about the thousands of blacks who were left homeless… I too feel it was a racist remark…
As for WS’s heritage/lineage… What is your friggin point about making some big deal out of it??
I am multi-cultural as well, and so is Republican… even though our NA heritage is non documented…
Wrong again Sol, Clark was only inserting the word YOU were substituting with the word Monkeys…
“as if all Irish are green eyed..”
No, they are all drunks. I’m surprised you didn’t know that.
That slur *monkeys* permeates a lot of white-supremacist literature… even though I have a very hard time calling it literature…
Read the thread Chas. The *s were to correct a typo. And this all relates to WS seeming to claim every heritage under the sun. He claimed multi – whatever and the only reference he made was to his nieces and nephews. If he wanted to state his multi- status then maybe he should have clarified some other lineage from his PAST instead of his nieces and nephews.
Wrong again Sol, Clark was only inserting the word YOU were substituting with the word Monkeys…
Posted by: Chas. | July 10, 2007 at 03:53 PM
WTF??? I thought it was the Mics that were drunks.
It seems to me that the Eagle is permeated by MANY racial/ethnic/sexist slur mongers… I think I shall find some other Blog… this is getting extremely OLD!
Chas = touchy monkey
“I think I shall find some other Blog..”
Boycott! Boycott!Attica! Attica!
chas = quitter monkey
Posting a link that proves that Republican is a long-term LIAR and nic stealer does not make me a “narcissist”.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74564578
Posted by: cosmos | July 10, 2007 at 03:46 PM
You’re right cosmos, it makes you an egotistical narcissist. :)
Sol, what typo?? You had monkeys spelled exactly right… and you had it in the *’s — as in *monkeys* That isnt the way to designate a typo anyway…
Bye Chas, be sure and take your bag of hypocritical posts with you!
cosmo = egotistical, fapping monkey
“And this all relates to WS seeming to claim every heritage under the sun.”
I have repeatedly stated that I do NOT claim any specific ethnic group as my own. For instance, I do not claim to be Native American, African American or Jewish.
I have only stated that I am multi-cultural.
I have never used the term multi-racial.
As for my bi-racial nieces and nephews, the point was that racist language pisses me off and I respond, in part, because I DO have family members that are subject to racist slurs.
Is that so hard to understand?
OK Chas, you were smart enough to google the post. Look at the original post.
OK here we go, the original post I miss spelled monkeys. When I quoted myself I fixed the typo and put astricks around it to make sure everyone knew.
“That isnt the way to designate a typo anyway…”
Didn’t you just say “Who died and made you and English major” to republican?
Later guys. Hey WS, nice sparing with you again. But hey brother, you should check your boy Chas. Think he blew a fuse or three.
Aren’t English Majors the one who serves your food at the Wendy’s?
“Sorry KFG… they seem to include a lot more… Gays, Liberals, Blacks, and Transylvanians… LOL… just to mention a few…”
Posted by: Chas. | July 10, 2007 at 03:38 PM
Transylvanians?
ROFLMAO!
And just what do you have against Transylvanians?
LMAO!
Chas = hypocrite monkey
Okay men, Mary Caruso the Blog mother is around, behave yourself for awhile.
It’s clear! back to shenanigans! :D
Republican,
Thank you for reposting my link that proves that you are a long-term LIAR and nic stealer.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74564578
“shenanigans”
If that is Irish, I’m thirsty.
Fleetwood = wanna-be-Irish thirsty monkey
And yet again, the hyperlink attention troll, cosmos the egotistical narcissistic eco-terrorist monkey links to his own post again!
What’s that three times on the same topic?
Maybe he’s going for the average troll climate effect?
Everybody panic!
Okay, can we dispense with the “monkey” business. There was enough of that the last time.
“Fleetwood = wanna-be-Irish thirsty monkey”
You are correct.Signed,McFleettwood
LMAO Fleet.
LJ, One more shot… I’m signing off so y’all have fun with it.
Why is it Clarkie and Chas boy get so worked up about hand out monkey but not…
You atheistic piece of Liberal Monkey Cheese Spewing Scum.Chas = touchy monkeychas = quitter monkeycosmo = egotistical, fapping monkeyChas = hypocrite monkeyFleetwood = wanna-be-Irish thirsty monkeyegotistical narcissistic eco-terrorist monkey
Must be that ‘hand out’ part that makes them think about black people.
For shame.
Racist monkeys !!!
Night all.
Attention: This Blog has been monitored for the past two weeks by a consultant for the ACLU. There is a lot of hate speech, racist inuendo, and anti-gay threats and other offensive postings. This is a warning. This Blog is being monitored. If postings do not change soon, further actions will be taken.
Thank you for your time.
LJ, agreed.
Clark, and SolD whatever–
It wasn’t interesting last time.
Don’t go there again.
StAtty–
That wasn’t funny.
Run along now, little boy . . .
If it doesn’t interest you, don’t read it.
No one forced you to read the comments, just like no one forces you to read anything else that is posted.
It is an open forum.
Actually, the ACLU is more interesting in protecting unpopular speech than it is in trying to shut it down.
They’re the ones that go to court so the KKK can march in Skokie.
As long as that speech doesn’t mention anything about Christ or Christianity….
Rising to Sollie’s cheap shots is really beneath you, Clark.
Besides, “not reading” posts is not that easy when one is trying to find the interesting bits.
But part of it is just a result of the ridiculously bad way The Eagle has set up the Blog and their negligence allowing it to get so cluttered up.
Yea, I get pretty pissed at them when they pull that Skokie crap… I usually would tend to support them, but then they go stick their foot in their mouths, and it gets me all ticked off…
Free speech is free speech. DOesn;t matter if it’s the KKK, or some other group. That is the beauty and the agony of it. If you wish to speak freely, you must allow others to do the same.
Wrong Nathan, in one town I served in, we had a problem with the schools doing bad scheduling during the holidays… They had scheduled a bad rehearsal on a Sunday morning during Advent, and a school concert on the Sunday afternoon before Christmas… The State Ed. board did nothing… The ACLU wrote one letter, and the school re-scheduled those events…
ooops bad = band
You can talk about Christ and Christianity all you want, Nathan, just don’t use my public square to espouse your private religious thoughts.
I have a right to be free from your religion.
Thank God.
“You can talk about Christ and Christianity all you want, Nathan, just don’t use my public square to espouse your private religious thoughts.”
Sorry. As much as some would like to differ, religious speech in public square is protected speech.
Correct, Chas.
The ACLU does a lot of good work for Christian and Conservative causes, but never mind that, they need enemies and the ACLU is one of their most mercilessly flogged straw men.
There are times I find the ACLU absolutely disgusting. ANd I think they much prefer to protect the perverts, etc. than the Christian and Conservative causes. But, they stand up for free speech. And free speech, regardless, means free speech. They do an awful lot of good work
Unlike most of my right thinking brethren, the ACLU doesn’t bother me. If they get a judge to agree with them, blame the judge. Don’t shoot the messenger.
“As much as some would like to differ, religious speech in public square is protected speech.”
Which one?
Should we just turn the public square over to Christians?
What about the Muslims? Or the Jews? Or the Buddhists? Or the Hindus?
Spare me your religious speech.
Unless you want to include ALL religions, then keep your religion out of the public square.
“ooops bad = band”
If it was like every other skool band I’ve ever heard, you were right the first time.
Unless you want to include ALL religions, then keep your religion out of the public square.
Posted by: WSClark | July 10, 2007 at 04:44 PM
Got no problem with that. Whatever made you think I did? And i think I can follow the COnstitution, not your exhortations.
It is after all, the law of the land. Get over it
“As much as some would like to differ, religious speech in public square is protected speech.”
Which one?”
All of them
“As long as that speech doesn’t mention anything about Christ or Christianity….”
This of course is patenty false. And pretty damn stupid to boot.
http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com/
Rage-
Thanks for the list!
how convenient.
Sentate votes to DEFUND cheneyGonzalez is on the hot seat againMeiers has to testify DESPITE pissypants claiming EPIraq War failing
but
but
wait for it…
Chertoff has a “gut feeling” some boogie man might attack us this summer…
way to go chimpy … bring out the terror card again, but this time people are on to your corruption
Great link, Rage, thanks!
(pssst, ACLU bashers: You should read the documents listed at Rage’s link)
(pssst, ACLU bashers: You should read the documents listed at Rage’s link)
Posted by: Tom | July 10, 2007 at 10:23 PM
Yeah I did! It took up almost a whole Web page! Wow! Zounds!
Now,let’s see all the ACLU actions against Christians, Nativity scenes, prayer in school, etc.
What? No list? I’m shocked!
Prayer in schools? Which prayer should they say, Blank One?
Hindu? Buddhist? Wiccan? Islamic? Native American?
Which prayers should be sponsored by our school tax dollars?
One of these days I’m going to get myself invited to say the benediction at a public high school or college.
I’m going to let out with the Muslim call to prayer:
“A lah allahu Akaabar!”
Boy, that’s gonna wake up all those hung-over dead-heads!
I used to live in an Islamic country and I heard it five times a day.
I kind of miss it.
I am sure that you do miss it, capn caliphate.
The inability to wonder at beauty is the hallmark of the fascist, the jingoist, and the racist.
“‘If you say that life is wonderful,’ you’ve said nothing, you’ve said a banality. But to make life a wonder, that is the role of poetry.” Octavio Paz
The majority of attempts to restrict free speech are from those who attempt to impose government-sanctioned religion and religious observances on the unwilling. It’s no surprise the ACLU has to spend more time defending the First Amendment _against_ religious radicals than defending the faithful from attempts to restrict their religious observances.
No doubt, Tom. No doubt.
Tom-While I agree that the ACLU does some good work, your comment
It’s no surprise the ACLU has to spend more time defending the First Amendment _against_ religious radicals”
doesn;t meet the smell test on this case. It wasn;t about religious radicals, it was a war memorial. standing for 50 years.
http://www.aclu.org/religion/govtfunding/16195prs20021022.html
Littlejohn,
Since when is a giant crucifix on government property a “war memorial?” Was it a memorial to the Crusades, perhaps?
What if the symbol had been a giant menorah? A giant crescent-moon-and-star? What if the good upstanding Christian citizens of San Diego thought it the moon/star was a symbol if international terrorism?
The case you’re referring to clearly looks like “government establishment.” It gave preference to one religion over others, and was found to be in violation of California’s constitution.
Tom–It wasn’t a crucifix. It was a cross. Huge difference. Second, it was a war memorial
“After more than 50 years overlooking the city of San Diego, the cross, erected as part of veteran’s war memorial”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21598-2005Mar9.html
Same as all the crosses at arlington natinal cemetary, etc.
Third, your post was about the aclu protecting against radical christians. I beleive this was a war memorial, not a movement by radical christiansfinally, I wouldn;t care if was a giant menorah, or crescent moon and starts, it was a WAR MEMORIAL.
Yeah,it was found to be in violation. So it should be removed. Agreed. comply with the law. BUT IT was a ware memorial. Some weasily judge, or judges, need to stand upsometimes and apply some common sense. It was a WAR memorial.
Littlejohn,
What’s the difference between a Christian cross and a crucifix?
The most prominent statue at Arlington is the Iwo Jima memorial, not a giant crucifix that can be seen three miles away.
And there’s a big difference between making a cross the giant centerpiece in a government monument, and putting crosses on the headstones of fallen heroes.
I wonder if there are any Jews or atheists or pagans or Muslims buried there, at the foot of that giant cross…
Tom-
a cross is a simple cross. A crucifix is a cross with the body of christ hanging on it.
And again, it was not put up by radical christians trying to impose christianity. That was your point about the ACLU> It was a war memorial. Regardless of the Iwo jima memorial, there are crosses on government property. Probably they should be removed, huh? In this instance, in my opinion, the ACLU should have just said no. IT was a war memorial. The ACLU and those who see “radical” christians everywhere should take heed to same advice given to christians that see ‘the devil” and “demons” and hate from everycorner. Take a deep breath, have a little common sense.
Littlejohn,
We often agree more than disagree. On this one, I don’t think we’re gonna find agreement.
Tom-
That’s okay. We don;t need to agree on everything. We disagree here. No personal problem here.
On CNN’s Crossfire on October 20, 2000, Larry Flynt exploded a bombshell: that he has evidence that George W. Bush was “involved in an abortion in Texas” in the early 1970’s – when abortions were still illegal.
Here are the details, as reported by Bartcop:
In the winter of 1971 George W. Bush was dating a woman named Robin Lowman (now Robin Garner). Miss Lowman became pregnant by Smirk and he arranged for her to have an abortion – which in the great state of Texas in 1971 was very illegal! Not to mention that George W. is running as a pro-life candidate for the presidency.The unnamed source of this story, was a friend of Robin Lowman’s and the girlfriend of the man who arranged the abortion. His name is Robert Carl Chandler. Chandler is a Bush friend and supporter from way back and he made the arrangements for Miss Lowman’s abortion at the Twelve Oaks Hospital in Houston, TX (now the Bayou City Medical Center). The source overheard the call by Mr. Chandler to arrange the abortion and the source visited Robin Lowman at the Twelve Oaks Hospital after the procedure.
The source meanwhile, is afraid of coming forward, saying that she was threatened by Chandler and another Bush friend and supporter named Jim Bath. Bath has longstanding intelligence connections, and played a role in the BCCI scandal. Robin Lowman (now Garner) is married to Jerry Lee Garner who is an FBI agent.
So, that’s the story: an illegal back room abortion arranged by the Republican party Presidential candidate who is running on a pro-life ticket.
The CNN Coverup
Amazingly, CNN scrubbed its own story!!!!
This has all the markings of a cover-up by CNN – just like the cover-ups of Bush’s many other scandals, from going AWOL, to using illegal drugs, to corruption in Texas government, to lying under oath.
Here is the original transcript that was published by CNN, but has now been scrubbed.
NOVAK: Mr. Flynt, never let it be said that we censor any of our guests here on CROSSFIRE, and you said you wanted to talk about the election. Tell me what you wanted to say.
FLYNT: Well, during the impeachment debacle, we did an investigation which resulted in the resignation of Bob Livingston and others and we have continued this investigation and for eight months we’ve been looking into George W. Bush’s background. And we’ve found out in the early 1970s he was involved in an abortion in Texas, and I just think that it’s sad that the mainstream media, who’s aware of this story, won’t ask him that question when they were able to ask him the drug question without any proof at all, and we’ve got all kinds of proof on this issue.
NOVAK: Well, you’re…
FLYNT: You know, the guy admitted he was a drunk for 20 years, and if the abortion issue is true then that puts him lower on the morality scale than Bill Clinton.
NOVAK: Mr. Flynt, you said if it’s true and you have no proof of that. I gather you are a very strong…
FLYNT: The hell we don’t have proof.
Feliz ano nuevo