The majority of Sedgwick County commissioners were right Tuesday to resist Commissioner Gwen Welshimer’s wrongheaded suggestion to put the brakes on downtown arena construction over the parking issue. Even worse — her idea of moving the arena project to another site with easier parking, such as the county-owned Kansas Coliseum. Welshimer certainly is not alone in having concerns about where arenagoers will park. But voters approved the arena in 2004 in part so the millions of dollars could benefit downtown, rather than be spent at the Coliseum. Now, with land acquired and bulldozers ready to roll, the answer is not further delay but a clear parking plan — which is in the works and should be helped by a commissioner-led work group set up in response to Welshimer’s worries. The arena project is on track and nearly paid for. At this late date, it needs sharp oversight, not roadblocks.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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77 Comments
The voters approved a plan that included $24,400,000 for parking; 5,000,000 on-site and 19,400,000 off-site with infrastructure. That is what the county should build. The City has ZERO responsibility in this area.
County has to plan to clear Chilton’s block and properly compensate the business to relocate.
Don’t parking issues have to start right in front of the arena.
Well, at least we have the statist Joe Williams to help with the oversight.
For a future look at the arena?
Read last weeks story about Wild West world.
I would say, J R, that the difference is that WWW relied on mostly private funding, while the downtown arena relies solely on public funding.
Wait. There are the naming rights and rents charged for use. I forgot abaout that.
Would anyone besides me be surprised if the rent the arena will charge the hockey team will even cover the light and heat bill for the evening?
“County has to plan to clear Chilton’s block and properly compensate the business to relocate.”
Why haven’t they announced that? Do you have substantiation to your claim? And where are they going to get the money with the cost over-runs eating up the budget?
Ben, haven’t you learned that Mrage has a special, secret source that only he is privy to?
A lot of people, when they receive the type of vibrations and messages Mrage receives, they seek protection by wearing a tinfoil hat.
Is that the same source that told him I was lying when I said his Arena had 15,000 seats for basketball instead of 17,000 seats?
To quote Ben recently…
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The anonymous comedian is a laugh riot today, not.
Got a better arena parking idea, who?
Your the genius who doesn’t believe the City should own Century II.
You don’t believe in civic projects. Will vote NO on the Casino as well.
You are absolutely right, Mrage. The city has no legitimate business owning something like Century II.
“You don’t believe in civic projects.”
IF YOU ARE REFERRING TO ME YOU ARE A LIAR!
“Got a better arena parking idea, who?”
STILL WAITING FOR YOUR SUBSTANTIATION OF YOUR PARKING CLAIM.
“Will vote NO on the Casino as well.”
STILL UNDECIDED. YOU KNOW THAT. WAITING FOR MORE DETAILS; DON’T LIKE PIG-IN-A-POKE
Your an idiot!
Where would Ben enjoy his Arts and Theater and its an affordable place for cultural events. Parking has been free forever.
Private ownership likes to charge for parking at some businesses.
Please share more of your crazy ideas how to benefit Wichita. Your not helping win this city $300 Million.
I was totally referring to anonymous Ben. I apologize to you for that confusion.
Its simply looking at the arena parking downtown.
I don’t know who will pay for Chilton to relocate, could be County or City. They both have vested interest no one complains about parking at the arena.
While I may differ from anon I would note that C-II consistently attracts a lot of corporate money. REAL corporate money; not pie-in-the-sky suppositions. C-II breaks even as it has sell-out after sell-out.
Where is the corporate backing for the Arena? NOT!
Maybe some corporate will sponser a parking facility.
I was downtown this morning because I had some business at the job fair at Century II. If my experience is anything to go by, the parking situation for the arena is screwed. I had to park about 6 blocks away. Traffic was tied up by people looking for a place to park.
The CITY? WHY? THIS IS A COUNTY RESPONSIBILITY! THE COUNTY REPRESENTED TO ME THAT THEY WILL TAKE CARE OF PARKING AND HAVE THE MONEY IN THE BUDGET TO DO SO!
SUBSTANTIATE YOUR CLAIM ABOUT CHILTONS.
Now, Mrage, I know that you are sometimes pestered by a mean poster poking fun at your grammar and usage, but that poster has a point.
When someone who has attended several of our state’s largest public universities can’t distinguish between when to use “you’re” and “your,” or when to use “it’s” instead of “its,” what confidence can we have in those universities?
The level of education you absorbed there is supposed to give me confidence in our civic projects, institutions and duties?
While I will not attempt to put words in Ben’s mouth for him, I would hope that he would agree that however worthy culural events at Century II are, their patrons should pay their own way.
If those patrons are not willing to pay what it truly costs to produce those events, what does that tell us about the true value they place on those events?
You act as though there would not be a symphony orchestra or music theater if the government didn’t subsidize it.
I say that if these organizations had to survive on their own, they would have to be more responsive to what their customers want. Their reliance on government subsidy insulates them from the discipline of markets.
That is one of the most important problems with government entertainment, and why the downtown arena will be a constant burden on the taxpayer.
I agree in part anon. The thing with truly PUBLIC venues IMO is that they also serve constituencies that CANNOT pay their way. For example, the Zoo hosts school groups and C-II does likewise. I think C-II turns a profit from things like Music Theater that then can subsidize these other functions. Overall, even WITH these ‘public’ services C-II breaks even.
Entities like Music Theater enjoy tremendous support from both individuals and corporate sponsers. They are also virtually always sold out.
If I could foresee such performance from the Arena I would not oppose it. However, I still do not see what it will host on any regular basis. I also do not see any ‘corporate citizens’ stepping up to support it. Even though I have been told repeatedly that they will do so “soon”.
Just say NO: A-RE-NO!
Ben,
You can’t challenge the City if they want to take over parking for the arena. They are part of the County task force making decesions about parking. City is fostering new business to be in that area.
Parking not just for the arena, but other business to benefit.
Chilton’s is wrong place suddenly because the arena is located there. They will be overburdened by parking in their lot. The arena will have day events too.
County and City can transfer responsibility without voterapproval at any time.
The arena documents are real, but they change as the project shifts during construction.
Anon,
That’s it. Your the clown, n, your validity to me is shot. You can’t distrust the City to own Century II and I’ll believe anything else?
Remember you called yourself”no one”, that fit. Big complainer, but unwilling to help.
So in other sords Mrage; your Chilton comment is pure rambling speculation. That is what I figured. As for your other comment “You can’t challenge the City if they want to take over parking for the arena” like Hell I can’t! Parking is 100% the County’s responsibility. If the County wants to transfer that to the City then let the County also transfer $24,400,000 to the City to pay for it.
Unless, of course, you are saying the County lied …
Why will Chilton be overwhelmed? They can make good money charging a lot to park on their property. Otherwise they just have the cars towed. The tow companies will do that without charge to Chiltons.
So, Mrage, are you going to buy chiltons out? One of your supposed corporate buddies?
Is the vote going to be split by Casino and the Racino?
I’m for the Greyhound Track (Racino) for having slots, but not too keen on the Casino.
Can I do a Greyhound Casino Yes and Casino no vote?
Also, I’m somewhat confused by the Arena Parking issue.
I thought we voted on that already?
Karl - there are two questions on the ballot. One is for racino and the other for casino. That is why they are saying “YesYes”
I think (but am not sure) the first question is casino and the second racino. They are NOT very clearly worded.
Oh yea - we DID vote on parking. County represented that as a part of what was narrowly approved. That is why I call on them to provide it - they represented that they would. And voters justifiably relied upon that representation.
You’re correct, Ben, there are two questions on the ballot, thus one may split the vote if desired. Like you, I’m confused about the order in which the same will appear.
Ben,
Since I mentioned Chilton’s here, I’ve said the same thing to contacts.
It looks like Chilton’s could have to move to create parking right in front of the arena.
Corporate involved has to pay for more seats created. Be the marketer attracting better 18,000 seat events to the arena. Work with SMG so some events get on national TV.
Parking is the responsibility of both governments, no matter it was County vote to create the arena.
One can’t fail the other. The City is hurt when people complain about parking downtown. They have a vested interest to make an arena parking plan work well.
County and City can trade services and money between themselves over a long period of time.
The tax ends, it doesn’t mean costs are responsibility only to the County. Costs for arena parking can be shared between the governments.
As Ben and others have pointed out, the adjoining landowners have every right to: 1) charge for parking in such amounts as they see fit (and to have violators towed); 2) allow parking on their land for free; 3) prohibit all parking for arena events, in which case they can again have the folks’ who don’t believe the signs vehicles towed. From my limited conversations with those so situated, they are going to choose option 1) or 3).
Mrage - County officials told me THEY would be responsible for parking.
So, your claim that “County has to plan to clear Chilton’s block and properly compensate the business to relocate.” was just made up? I figured as much.
So, how is your campaign with all your supposed corporate friends to get 18,000 seats going?
VT - that is also what I hear from property owners in the area.
Mrage - I’d get a list of phone numbers of impound yards if I were you.
By the way VT - am I correct that if a casino ends up in Sumner they share revenues with sedgwick under the new law?
Ben, it is my understanding that there is a share to Sedgwick County; 1 or 2% of the gross, IIRC.
Ben,
The County is responsible for arena parking, they make a deal with the City.
I’m sure Chilton’s name will come up in the parking plan, pretty soon.
Not for just parking, but how will the Arena look from the front?
From street view on Topeka, people won’t see the Arena driving past Chilton’s. That close and can’t see the Arena properly.
That’s one block to clear and I don’t know where else parking zones will be. By that old school is a parking zone location.—–
As I recall, in the office building development business, the parking requirement is about 4.2 spaces per 1,000 SF of office space.
Likewise, arenas and other similar activities generally average 2.5 people per each car needing a sparking space. On that basis, Kansas Coliseum is right on target with 4,000 parking spaces for 10,000 seats plus another 1,000 spaces for the three pavilions in case they are in use simultaneously with the Coliseum’s Britt Brown arena.
I believe the Kansas Coliseum and three Pavilions were all used for the Franklin Graham religious crusade. Closed circuit TV was used to reach the audience in the Pavilions. I guess that was a record attendance out there.
For activities that draw large crowds at basically the same time and discharge the crowd the same way, parking spaces need to be largely surface outdoor parking so the drivers are not confined in a garage at the end of the activity to avoid “parking lot rage.”
If you propose to build a private office building in any city in America, the first question you will be asked is how much parking are you providing? Try giving the answer the pro-arena people are giving … we are counting the 100 spaces on the Wichita EAGLE’s property. And the 300 spaces at Cox Communications building. And the 250 spaces at the security company south of the EAGLE and some make-believe spaces under Highway 54 and in the downtown alleys.
“We think this will work if our customers beat their employees to their parking spaces and push some garbage containers in the dark alleys out of the way!”
SO, BOTTOM-LINE, IF THE DOWNTOWN ARENA IS PROPOSED TO HAVE 15,000 SEATS (I HAVE LOST TRACK) … IT WILL NEED 6,000 GROUND LEVEL PARKING SPACES … ON THE PROPERTY. IF IT WOULD HAVE 17,000 SEATS, THEN 6,800 GROUND LEVEL PARKING SPACES ARE NEEDED.
Probably would be a good idea to surround with concertina wire to protect against being used by non-affiliated users.
Mrage, I am not the “n” poster that you referred to. I only agreed with that poster’s conclusion.
And as far as validity goes, I think Ben does a good job illustrating how invalid your points are.
Ben,
You don’t want $300 Million spent in Wichita, you live in the city limits.
Willing to see that investment go to Sumner County?
What’s 1% for Sedgwick County when they could get more if the Casino is located here.
Mrage, what on earth does this sentence of yours mean?
“You can’t distrust the City to own Century II and I’ll believe anything else?”
But you claimed that the deal was set. Now you are just supposing.
In case you haven’t fugured it out yet there is no money left in the budget to do all the things you calim they will do. So, what tax will they raise to do it? Or what other budget will they raid?
We gave them 184.5 million and they are now raising 201 million. They represented that would cover parking, loss reserve, and everything else. To look elsewhere for money to pay for these will be a direct admission that they LIED!
I ask again: are YOU going to buy out Chiltons? One of your alleged corporate buddies?
Any deal with the City should be accompanied with $24,400,000; taken from the Arena budget.
Mrage - I will vote YesYes if they convince me it is a good idea. You specious comment is meaningless.
Thank you for the information gentleman. I’ll be there voting with bells on - no lemons though.
Anon,
Lets not converse. You can talk about me forever. I won’t mention you or acknowledge your posts.
When your someone real, I won’t confuse you as a troll. You found reason in a troll, when that nut is insane.
“n” does nothing but bother me disregarding what the topics are about. Doesn’t speak to anyone else. That is a troll nut and you agree?
Hate Century II and vote No, No on the Casino. Never go to Arena events either.
We’ll never agree on anything.
“Wording of the Aug. 7 ballot measures:
“Shall the Kansas lottery be authorized to operate a lottery gaming facility in Sedgwick County?”“Shall the Kansas lottery be authorized to place electronic gaming machines in Sedgwick County?””
You’re right, Mrage, “n” is a troll.
But that he/she is correct regarding what they posted about.
Remember, don’t acknowledge this post!
“I think I will lease out a building space near the arena, open up a bicycle shop, and charge a small fee for bicycle parking, of course the parking comes with security watch of your bicycle.”
Oh well…,who am I to blow against the wind, nobody around here thinks about doing something creative.
BY THE WAY, CONGRATULATIONS TO NEW SEDGWICK COUNTY COMMISSIONER, GWEN WELSHIMER FOR STANDING UP TO BE COUNTED ON HER PROPOSAL FOR STUDYING THE PROMISED PARKING FOR THE DOWNTOWN ARENA.
I believe Gwen’s position is:
1) stop demolition and construction of the proposed white elephant arena NOW until parking issues can be resolved to give what was promised.
2) move the arena project up to the Kansas Coliseum property and build it adjacent to the Coliseum’s Britt Brown Arena. That way there will be no downtime and we will continue to have the vast amount of free surface parking spaces around the facility. Of course, the current hideous glass and steel design looking much like a Ford Edsel that has just run into a concrete bridge should be redesigned using the current architectural “green” philosophy and “function over form.”
Then as someone suggested, put some needed Sedgwick County activities into the current albatross downtown arena footprint such as a 24/7 social services and homeless service facility.
Perhaps even use the space for a new modern AMTRAK RAILROAD STATION in the event the railroad through Wichita south to Texas is reactivated. Perhaps a new fire station and police substation. I am not current on all of the current municipal services needs.
Unfortunately, the stodgy old men, the three holdover county commissioners, DAVID UNRUH, TIM NORTON AND TOM WINTERS again stuck their heads in the sand AND WON’T ACKNOWLEDGE THAT 95% OF SEDGWICK COUNTY VOTERS NO LONGER WANT THE ARENA NOW THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THE ISSUES.
By the way Mrage - while I generally don’t comment on things like gramar and spelling (mine are lousy too) I DO have problems with things like:
“You can’t distrust the City to own Century II and I’ll believe anything else?”
I simply do not know what it means. Are you telling me I should NOT distrust government? Are you telling me I should blindly believe everything they tell me?
Ben,
I distrust plenty in governments. But when it comes to somethings like public facilities, I’ll believe more than distrust.
I trust civic ownership over building the arena for a tenant.
I distrust professional sports facilities and their financing.
I distrust some college facilities because no matter sell outs year after year, the facility somehow isn’t affordable. Like Nebraska football stadium.
There has to be partnership between cities and their college sports facilities if its reasonable to do.
Lawrence-Dumont ownership problems showed the problems that could exist. Professional sports let L-D get old and less useful.
The City was hands off improving or running the facility.
County owns the arena and I hope it will have some corporate partnership that helps keep the facility going long term.
It has more appeal with a corporate partner. Create better marketing to get events to Wichita.
Your against future tax increases to support the arena. I don’t believe that will happen. County hasn’t overspent the tax.
They haven’t put out bids for construction. County could have less money because its more costly to build the arena in their budget.
That’s why your seeing fluctuating spending numbers.
Arena parking is a financial challenge. That complete cost couldn’t have been realized when the arena vote happened years ago.
And if they need more money to cover parking and losses? Where should they get it? Remember, “We know from researching Arenas in other communities that we must plan for operating deficits at the Downtown Arena.” They represented they would set aside $23,611,000 to cover that. At about 6% discount rate that translates to about $2 million per year. With that reserve eaten up by construction cost overruns (up 75% SO FAR) how are they going to cover that?
Are your supposed corporates going to do that? HA!
go go Ben! :D
I’ll be back…
Ben,
Nationally, corporate investments in arena’s is between $50 Million and $75 Million.
Just naming rights is between $15-$25 Million over 20 years time.
Who wants to name a small arena in this regional area.
To benefit properly in marketing, a corporate has to help the County create a larger arena with 18,000 floor seats.
I don’t care what they are elsewhere. What are they HERE?
“To benefit properly in marketing, a corporate has to help the County create a larger arena with 18,000 floor seats.”
THEN SHOULDN’T YOU BE GETTING ONTO THAT?
From the Eagle:
– Monday: Demolition begins
– July 23: The county will request bids from construction companies that want to build the arena.
– July 25: Sedgwick County Commission will vote on a completed contract with SMG, the arena manager.
– Aug. 3: The county will hold a mandatory pre-bid meeting for construc tion companies interested in building the arena.
Got that? Bidding hasn’t started yet. But, I imagine, there is already a good chance someone has an inside to this, and is more than ready to step up and bid correctly, politically speaking of course.
Gosh, I sure hope all documents, meetings, “dinners”, and all successive golf outings are open to the public. And I really expect it is all squeaky clean, sarcasm aside.
The latest guess of construction cost is $140 million. The County had represented that as $77 million.
Gwen must have gotten some some serious threats from the JWinks crowd.
Yeah! Delay construction and you will certainly get cost overruns.
You are spending a lot of money for a parking plan consultant and you cannot wait for the report, due out soon?
For those worried about parking, they obviously have never been to another arena in other major cities which have downtown arenas. Scattered surface parking works. It has been for River Festival and it will work for the arena.
Actually Joe!; i have been to many in many different cities. I usually took the subway.
As for River Festival please note that was picture postcard weather. If aprking is not needed then why was it represented that it would be included?
Mrage: A 17,000 seat arena should have 7,200 automobile parking spaces in a ground level, adjacent, well-lighted, secured parking lot with controlled ingress/egress.
Not a haphazard aggregation of parking spaces up and down the city’s alleyways, behind trash cans, in other peoples’ and other companies’ parking lots.
Frankly, Mrage, because I have talked to you at the WBlog meetup and know you are sincere about your goal … I don’t know why you are a supporter of the downtown arena and, for that matter, a downtown gambling casino.
Both are detrimental to your goal of building a football stadium somewhere in the central part of Wichita. In fact, if a demand exists for a downtown football stadium, the best location would be in the downtown white elephant arena footprint if the arena could be moved back up to the Kansas Coliseum site where it belongs.
Of course, the albatross downtown arena should be redesigned to serve better as a concert facility and forget the ice slabs, ice freezing piping, the half dozen $75,000 Zamboni’s, ice skates and all the other stuff needed to furnish an ice skating/ice hockey facility.
Frankly, we all would be better off if “Wink” Hartman (no connection to me by the way), would put an ice slab in his proposed indoor football arena or adjacent thereto. This would eliminate the argument (kind of like the “weapons of mass destruction” argument) to support building the downtown arena.
I think by now everyone knows the real reason for building the downtown arena has nothing to do with any ficticious need. It has everything to do with lifting a massive $300,000,000.45 from the billfolds of Sedgwick County taxpayers in the mistaken idea that this somehow will spur the economy of Sedgwick County.
Anyone who has taken even a rudimentary course in college economics knows just the opposite is true — with public financed arenas and, for that matter, government owned gambling casinos. They both take the principal amount out of the economy, existing businesses, restuarants, schools, even indirectly happy marriages.
As someone told me yesterday, he has often visited the Kansas City gambling boats and has never seen anyone there having fun. Amazing! Gambling customers are desperately trying to win back their losses, essentually free-will contributions to casino owners and for taxes to state and local governments. Taxpayers at large must pick up their droppings in the form of social costs.
Ben! I remember back in the mid 90’s, I was at a concert at the Kansas Coliseum. Van Halen to be exact. It was late December, close to Christmas and we just had an ice storm and bad sleet a few days earlier. It was bitter cold that night.
At the concert I lost a shoe in the crowd. Don’t ask me how, I just did.
Well after the concert I had to hop on one leg from Britt Brown to our car, which was parked way the hell out there. Take any measurements from Britt Brown to the edge of the Parking lot and it will be the same distance of the Downtown Arena to the river edge.
Meaning that it isn’t all that closer to have a huge surface parking lot next to the arena then having many scattered downtown.
The best thing about the downtown arena is that many people will go to Old Town before hand, grab some grub and a few beers then go to watch a concert or Thunder Game. This will help Old Town big time and you will probably see a great expansion of more restaurants and bars there, just like Bricktown in OKC is with the Ford Center.
I was staying in OKC at the Marriott Downtown, right smack next to the Ford Center Arena. And the night I was there, they had a Hornets game. Me and my co-workers went out to have dinner out in Bricktown. Mind you this was a Monday night and Bricktown was packed with people. We decided to go back to the hotel and wait until the game started to go eat because the place was swarming with people. Most of all were people going to a Hornets game.
I also remember after the game let out, the streets were packed, but it didn’t take 30 minutes for people to clear out of downtown OKC from after the game.
It’s going to work Ben!
SPEAKING OF CORPORATE SPONSORS, corporations usually donate one-shot contributions because successive annual contributions might not be approved by successive corporate boards. Its like giving a starving man a Big Mac — he’s soon back asking for another.
In any case, I remember talking to an “executive” involved in the development of EXPLORATION PLACE in about 1996 to 1998. I recall that they said, “We don’t have to listen to the public because we are receiving financing from private benefactors. Of course, when that money was spent, EXPLORATION PLACE begged local governments for subsidies even when the concept was failing.
I personally purchased annual memberships to Exploration Place for the first several years but the experience was so bad I finally dropped it. One thing that stands out in my memory is their signage … almost all words mispelled and sentences mis-structured.
Oh well, what can you expect?
I think Joe’s next job will be with the Chamber of Commerce instead of Sedgwick County!
He’s that enthusiastic a supporter of big government!
See, I am enthused too! Can you tell!?
Are you going to take personal responsibility for this when it all goes to crap because the rest of us said ‘hey you promised a parking plan’?
Promise will be delivered. No worries.
JWink,
I don’t feel any pressure from the downtown arena or casino. If both are located downtown, its a benefit. More events downtown helps my stadium idea.
In plans, I’m creating parking downtown west of river and that will help the Casino if located in the Century II area. If Ruffin’s Delano plan wins. Assist people to park and walk across the bridge into WaterWalk.
Improves parking for Lawrence-Dumont as well. Your a supporter there, argue everyone needs a chairback seat!
I’m promoting a larger arena so there is less focus on hockey. It’s a basketball and concert downtown arena to me.
College basketball has a better chance to be on regional or national TV, someday.
We voted and rejected the Coliseum location for our larger Arena.
The Coliseum is still needed as a “dirt” facility.
Look at other arena’s around us in neighboring states. In OKC, Tulsa Omaha and Kansas City. We can be competitive in arena seats.
We can compete for events to come here.
I can’t act too moral about casino’s. They exist and people gamble. If people over gamble I can’t stop them.
The Casino idea to me is all about $300 Million spent downtown!
Properties you complain the City shouldn’t own, maybe they can sell, the Hyatt.
Could the Casino desire the Ice Rink, its possible!
The Library group wants to move. They want a larger facility and better location according to them.
The building at Douglas and Main is likely to be sold and that thing has been standing there rotting for years.
I won’t gamble often as others but I’m hoping to visit the Casino and people watch often. People don’t have to gamble!
There is still “wholesome” entertainment in high school sports. I promote that. That’s what my stadium is for. Outside sports, track and football.
Track accessible to anyone wanting to walk or run around. Stadium memberships will be sold. Everyone will have a chair back seat in stadium, no bleachers!
It’s a stadium where concerts should happen too, River Festival events.
Our casino and racino should only be open to 21 year olds. I think in Oklahoma its 18 getting into some casino’s. That’s too young being in a casino and gambling.
I’m hoping today’s 18-19 year olds vote YES, YES, so the Casino is here when they turn 21.
Isn’t Exploration Place better because of the new director?
Gee, I trust republicans with all their ‘plans’.
NOT.
Hey Mrage! About the Britt Brown Arena, it still needs renovations per ADA requirement. That is what brought about our new downtown arena.
If the county is considering to still use it, they will have to still spend money to make it ADA compliant.
This is by no way means of downgrading the Britt Brown Arena. I agree a dirt floor arena is needed, but I was thinking about maybe an option to convert it to a standby emergency shelter, such as it was used yesterday.
We can probably get some DHS funds to convert it into a regional emergency response and shelter box in case of disasters.
Katrina, Greensburg, Coffeville floods, Valley Center and so on.
“Our casino and racino should only be open to 21 year olds. I think in Oklahoma its 18 getting into some casino’s. That’s too young being in a casino and gambling.
I’m hoping today’s 18-19 year olds vote YES, YES, so the Casino is here when they turn 21. ”
Oh I see. You have no problem putting an 18 year old in Iraq to get killed in combat but he is “too young” to play the nickel slot machines in Kansas. That makes sense to me!
Let the 18 year old play. They can get a lottery ticket. It’s all good.
I’m against 18 year olds being on the front lines. That time period is over.
There is choice to join military at 18, but major combat should not happen until 20 or 21.
18 year olds can buy a lottery ticket? I didn’t know that. If they can, that’s fine. Rare, but I remember a 19 year old girl winning Millions somewhere.
Probably happens more often, I don’t pay attention who wins the lottery unless its $100 Million or more. Some couple in Oklahoma recently won over $100 Million.
It’s worth a dollar on the lottery then!
But gambling is a Casino should be only for 21 and older, if I could choose the policy.
Adult “themes” happen in Casino’s.
I’m sorry former soldiers not 21 shouldn’t be in there either. Come back from war, its not time to drink and party. Its time to reintroduce normal daily life in the community.
Joe,
The Coliseum is suddenly a refuge for disasters but could stay an arena with ADA improvements.
We need a indoor arena for Monster Truck and motorcross.
Does the County have to own is the Coliseum is the question. Does a developer exist to improve the facility.
Dirt shows like that wouldn’t infringe on the downtown arena events.
Whatever happens to the Coliseum is fine. I see a need for the dirt shows.
“This will help Old Town big time and you will probably see a great expansion of more restaurants and bars there, just like Bricktown in OKC is with the Ford Center.”
Then why not establish a benefit district in Old Town to support the Old Town Arena? Why tax Players and other bars in out-lying areas to support their competitors? Is that Libertarian?
Mrage - the County has made it clear they will demolish Britt Brown. They have zero money to deal with it. That is why they hoped to unload it for a casino. As for the ‘dirt shows’? Oh well; maybe someone should have thought about that.
Because Ben! There is already a TIF establish in Old Town for itself. You cannot TIF a TIF district.
“There is choice to join military at 18, but major combat should not happen until 20 or 21.”
“Come back from war, its not time to drink and party. Its time to reintroduce normal daily life in the community.”
SO for 3 years they should ????
Isn’t normal daily life for a 18-21 year old also include drinking and partying. You don’t think they should go to Old Town and drink with their buddies
MRage
Strap on a uniform for a year or two — go do acouple of patrols —- I think you’ll change your mind
What’s a TIF?
Joe! A benefit district is different than a TIF and it CAN be over-layed upon it. You just don’t want to pay for your benefit.
TIF - Tax Increment Financing. The idea is to use the taxes generated from increased property values to pay for parking structures etc in Old Town. There is also a unique “Tax DECREMENT Financing” through a big chunk of downtown to pay for the Gilbert-Mosley cleanup. The idea here was to prevent property value DECREASES due to the pollution; they then used tax revenues that were notlost to that to pay for cleanup. Actually, they should have made Coleman pay a larger share.
Interesting, thanks Ben.
Ken,
What’s the drinking age 21. I was 18 when it was legal to buy beer.
There you go. Come back from war or not, society has put 21 the drinking age.
So you advocate underage drinking in this century just for x-war soldiers.
Casino’s want people to drink and gamble. Both things society doesn’t want young people to do with abandon.
Teens are young, no matter war trained or not. Twenty somethings are just a tad bit older, supposedly more mature.
In Manhattan at KSU, they used to ban soldiers just because from bars.
Since the Gulf wars and Big Red One back in Junction City, I don’t know the bar policies in Aggieville today.
Drinking is right of age, but society has the authority to put restrictions on alcohol.
Drinking age should be 18…
An 18 year old can be put to death, can be drafted, can be married, can buy a house… Why shouldn’t he be able to drink?
Tony,
Why? Because 18 year olds are frequently high school students who provide that alcohol to their underage friends. Then they all go for a drive, and someone dies.
Here’s a plan: Any 18 to 20 year old who wants to drink should have to choose between an “alcohol only” license and a driver’s license.
It is the city’s problem. They can not abdicate thier responsibility. But what is the problem? 6,000 space within 4 blocks…
haha 95% don’t want the arena now my ass!! maybe all you old farts that can’t accept that you lost don’t want it.. Here’s an idea shut up, and go back to your caves