The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles this week became the latest diocese to make a huge payoff to sex abuse victims — $660 million — dwarfing past payments and reminding the nation once again of the scope and pain of these sex scandals.
Since 1950, the Roman Catholic Church of America has paid more than $2 billion in settlements to victims abused by deviant priests.
Cardinal Roger Mahony apologized for the past abuse, but L.A. abuse victims remained bitter that Mahony himself now won’t have to testify in court about why some of the wayward priests were protected for so long by the church.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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79 Comments
Shouldn’t a law be passed requiring churches to be at least 1500 feet away from a school? We have laws for porn shops but pedophiles appear to be hiding underneath clerical collars but are free to prey upon little children without abandon. If our government is serious about combating perverts they’d do this, but Christians are afforded special rights in this country.
I’ll beat ‘em to it Doug. They will accuse Randy of somehow being a liberal (pick one or all) church hating, god hating, christian bashing, catholic bashing bigot who supports forced abortion.
That about cover it?
Oh yeah, and there will no doubt the the obligatory attack on the ACLU and they will also do a triple back flip to drag in nambla as well.
There. I think THAT about covers it.
KFG,
There are a couple things here. I practice Catholicism, but it doesn’t prevent me from stating that sexual abuse is bad and wrong period.
Bashing the the belief that a practicing Catholic should follow, isn’t correct. However, bashing and attacking the position taken about hiding those who did sexually abuse children in my opinion is actually acceptable. Because, even I ask why did this even happen in the first place?
In that sense, I think more needs to happen, the church should be recognizing its mistake and as such doing more than just paying off those it has wronged. dren immediately. Surprisingly(or not), I’m not going to call Randy any of those things.
Doug,
I agree, however, shouldn’t that also dictate that the priest be removed from churches where children attend mass/ceremony at? Oddly, I’d say yes. Read above, I think also that law enforcement should be involved every step of the way.
There are many wonderful Catholics and I have nothing against The Church per se but this is bullshit. They think they can write a check and be done with it. If this was any other organization, they’d be out of business with this kind of stuff going on. At least NAMBLA tells you what they are about. These guys… nother story.
The Catholic Church has caused and still causes lots of pain to the world. They cause Latin America to overpopulate and then they gripe because some Americans don’t want to take all of Mexico’s overpopulation here. They have a policy that their ministers cannot be married which attracts homosexuals, pedophiles and other assorted sexual ID types to the priesthood (who the Hell else would want it?). They tell young boys that masturbation will cause them to go blind and send them to Hell then they wonder why the boys grow up to be rapist.
Kev,
I agree, it is why I stated more needs to happen. Just paying off those who have been abused isn’t really enough. It is avoiding the real issues:
How did it happen? Why did it happen?
People, and especially those who were wronged, deserve to and should know. It may be embarrassing, but the reality is it was brought upon the church by those who were trusted to teach its faith. By hiding behind making large settlement payments, I don’t see it solving the problem that existed, and potentially still exist.
It looks like parts of my comment above were deleted. Probably me editing while typing. Apologies if it seemed like I was defending this particular policy of payout to avoid answering questions.
Kev,
They have a policy that their ministers cannot be married which attracts homosexuals, pedophiles and other assorted sexual ID types to the priesthood
I agree that priests should be allowed to marry. Blame it on St. Augustine who stated that it would better for the human race to die off than for priests to marry(well not exactly worded that way, but it gets the point across), up until that point priests could marry. I do not see a problem with homosexuals. It is against my religious beliefs, but I don’t see homosexuals causing our society to fall apart. Just that said homosexual if practicing Catholicism shouldn’t practice homosexuality(thus should remain a virgin/single)
As for pedophiles, marriage doesn’t stop pedophilia, as there are plenty of married men people who do that and it is still not right. So I don’t think not allowing marriage causes that.
As for other sexual ID types, I’m not sure that those are affected by marriage per se either. In that, marriage reduces the number sexual deviant behavior.===
They tell young boys that masturbation will cause them to go blind and send them to Hell then they wonder why the boys grow up to be rapist.
Actually on this, how does masturbation stop rape? I’ve never once been told that masturbation causes blindness. Not saying it hasn’t happened anywhere, for all I know maybe it has. Sending to hell, was a possibility, but is such with any sin committed.
“They have a policy that their ministers cannot be married which attracts homosexuals, pedophiles and other assorted sexual ID types to the priesthood”
Danny, with all due respect, that’s NUTS!
That sounds suspiciously like the meme last week with vitter that “married men living away from their families cant control themselves”.
You think these guys wouldnt be child molesters if they were allowed to be married?
And I dont know of ONE case the church is paying for like a slot machine that involves GAY sex.
This is ABUSIVE sex. Pedophelia, not homosexuality. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!!!!
KFG,
I was quoting Kev. Sorry, and refuting him right below that. I forgot to put quotes around that.
I’m torn on this whole subject. There are many good and decent Catholics out there who don’t deserve the scandal brought on by some of this. However, when you sign onto a religion, you sign onto the beliefs of that organization. So I’m sort of in the mindset of a ‘love it or leave it’ philosophy. Catholics drive me bonkers as to what their members will put up with and preach as God’s word.
But on the other hand all religions must evolve. I don’t think anyone believes that living like we did in Jesus’s time is good for anyone. Look at Islam for that matter. There are many good people on the inside of that religion trying to progress it forward.
You don’t all have to stand behind the pope. You can start breaking off and giving the Church less and less power. They know they can get away with this because the laypeople won’t abandon their faith. Until that happens, change won’t come.
If you really want to know the truth….I had a friend that was in the seminary wanting to become a catholic priest until they started trying to push the gay way of life upon him. He then dropped out and became a bible salesman.Furthermore, there are downsides to all religions.Most fanatics think they can break every commandment under the sun then go to church and think they’re ok and on the path to “heaven”. What a bunch of BS organized religion is.
I was not implying that pedophiles and homosexuals are the same thing. I was saying that they have both found homes in the priesthood of the Catholic Church. Religion is always the last thing to change when society changes. Religion always clings to beliefs even after they have long been proven socially and scientifically wrong and the Catholic Church is the worst of all them about this. The Southern Baptist are a close second but they didn finally admit that slavery wasn’t cool and that the earth really is round. I am still waiting on the catholics.
Uh, Kev, I believe the Roman Catholic Church has admitted the earth was round for quite some time, now. While John Paul II was Pope, it even accepted the Theory of Evolution.
Homosexuals are 2% of the population, yet commit 1/3 of the child molestations. Most of these abuses by the priesthood involved teenage or preteen boys. The abuses began escalating decades ago, when homosexuals were allowed a foothold in the priesthood. The priesthood then tried protecting itself rather than victims and parishioners, when the abuses came to light.The world, for all its faults, will not tolerate a coverup of abuses, especially the abuse of children. It remains to be seen whether the priesthood has learned how to police itself. The world’s police are watching to see.
Vaughn,
Actually I believe it was current Pope Benedict who did accept the Theory of Evolution. Recall reading that in an MSM article, just don’t recall any longer which particular MSM outlet it was.
“Homosexuals are 2% of the population, yet commit 1/3 of the child molestations.”
Care to substantiate that claim?
Parkay,
Where did you get those numbers? Because when attempting to look that up, nothing varied that far from statistical variances.
I don’t understand why there aren’t some of the Catholic management types in the crimal court system; they have to know what was happening, and tacitly condoned it by failing to address the problem. CYA?I especially think that clown in LA that signed off on the latest settlement should be defrocked and thrown in jail and serve 20 years as Mrs. Bubba, then be hung!
Sure it’s homosexuality KFG. The vast majority of the abused by the Catholic Priests are boys not girls.
Just like that Evangelical Minister that got caught and “defrocked” by his church, he was involved in homosexual activity with a known homosexual.
To pretend it is not is denying the truth.
Men who rape and molest little boys have homosexual tendencies and are definition homosexuals.
Homosexuals just have to take the brunt of their immoral behavior as the leading cause of deviant behavior in the U.S. Their openness to conduct lewd acts and the promotion of sex as a meaningful lifestyle is a devise of their own doing, not anyone else.
So yes, male Homosexuals get to carry the millstone of Catholic Priests around their necks as well because the male Priests are homosexual deviants which means they are homosexuals.
Whoa . . . hold on.
There’s no link between homosexuals engaging more often in pedophilia.
Pedophilia is completely different.
It’s like saying that hetrosexuality causes man on girl sexual abuse.
Normal hetro males aren’t sexually attracted to little girls anymore than normal gay males are attracted to boys.
“Men who rape and molest little girls have heterosexual tendencies and are definition heterosexuals.”
So what’s your point?
“When vicars of priests met to learn from one another how we might better minister to the victims of clergy sexual misconduct, we discovered a factor that put priest offenders at variance with the general population of child abusers. As a group, abusers tend to be married men who prey on girls, although many pedophiles abuse both girls and boys. Our respective diocesan experience revealed that roughly 90% of priest abusers target teenage boys as their victims. Most priest abusers, we concluded, were not pedophiles in the strict sense of the term. They tend to be ephebophiles, adults whose sexual interest focused on post-pubescent teenagers. …. Relatively little attention has been paid to this phenomenon by Church authorities. Perhaps it is feared that it will call attention to the disproportionate number of gay priests.”1) Irving Bieber, M.D., “On Arriving at the American Psychiatric Association Decision on Homosexuality,” NARTH Bulletin, April 1999, online edition.2) D. Cozzens, The Changing Face of the Priesthood, pp. 123-4.
So, kanzan, are you saying that catholic Priests are disproportionately homosexual? That does not then extend to your broader claim about non-Priests.
Not just my opinion Ben, but the formal opinion of the Catholic Church’s own contracted psychiatrists.
Actually Catholic Priest are. I remember taking a Sociology Class and we had some group projects, although my group subject was Genetic Engineering, one group had HIV/AIDS in America. They reported that Catholic Priest have quadruple the infection rates than the population as a whole.
Kanzaz - but they gave no conclusion that it went beyond the Priest population.
I’d like to know where you are getting your twisted info from about homosexuality and pedophilia.You couldn’t be farther from the truth.I know MANY homosexuals and NONE of them are pedophiles. Give me a break people.
And one other thing….statistics were meant to be skewed…that’s what a professor of mine once told me.
Then why aren’t the majority of the Priest’s victims female instead of males?
They seem to have a preference, that is, the same sex. Thus it is Homosexuality.
If gays only make up 2% of the population then I wonder why fundies like Parkay Phelps obsess about them so much. I guess every fascist needs a scapegoat.
What does being a perverted homosexual pedophile Catholic priest have to do with Christians?
“Homosexuals are 2% of the population, yet commit 1/3 of the child molestations.”
Care to substantiate that claim?
Posted by: Ben | July 17, 2007 at 03:37 PM
Parkay,
Where did you get those numbers? Because when attempting to look that up, nothing varied that far from statistical variances.
Posted by: Danny | July 17, 2007 at 03:41 PM
Still waiting …
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS02E3&f=WA06J11
” Pedophiles are invariably males: Almost all sex crimes against children are committed by men.
· Significant numbers of victims are males: Up to one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys (as opposed to girls).”
Even according to this biased unrefereed source the majority of pedophiles are HETEROSEXUAL.
And parkey - linking to another blog doesn’t really count for a lot. Especially when even THEY acknowledge that their information is dated.
Here is a Canadian study that shows that even though the Homosexual population is only 3 percent they commit 25 percent of all pedophilia offenses.
http://www.lifesite.net/features/marriage_defence/SSM_MD_evidence.pdf#search=%22david%20thorstad%20gay%20marriage%22
I found a link on another blog long ago that proved that they assumed in the studies that if a male abused a male, then they must be homosexuals. But that’s not exactly the case. Male pedophiles who abuse males overwhelmingly consider themselves heterosexual. Now you can argue that they’re closeted, or don’t want to admit, or whatever… but I’d think that after being caught, they could feel free to come forward.
That would make them Bi-Sexual!
Pedophilia needs to be punishable by death.They are the lowest form of human kind.I wouldn’t catergorize a man on boy molestation and a homosexual act. But I can see where the man would be catergorized as a homosexual.
A few random points:
To those who don’t realize this obvious point: Catholic means “universal” the Catholic Church was once the ONLY Christian faith. The Eastern Orthodox were the first to “split” from Rome. Then, the “Protestant” faiths.
Only 1% of the total Priesthood was involved in any pedophelia.
The Catholic Church has allowed gay priests, as long as they did not ACT on their urges.
The Boy Scouts, in contrast, do not allow gay scoutmasters. The Boy Scouts get sued for NOT allowing gays.
The Church gets sued for Pedophelia. The Boy Scouts, for the most part DON’T get sued nearly as much on that issue.
I am hopeful that public acceptance of gays will actually decrease the desire of gays to join the Priesthood.
I would agree that MOST gays are NOT pedophiles. However, NAMBLA is an accepted organization in nearly every, major, gay parade.
By the way, there ARE married, Catholic Priests.
When a Presbetyrian, Lutheran, Orthodox or Anglican/Episcopalian Priest converts, he can remain married, if married prior to conversion.
He can also be a Catholic Priest!
By the way, I think the Church messed up BAD on this issue.
However, NOBODY really understood abuse issues when many of these cases first developed.
Hell, look at this Blog. With the benefit of all we know, we can’t agree on how to stop this problem.
One thing we do know now: pedophiles CAN’T be cured.
We did not know that until recently.
The Church should pay up, because they messed up.
I will try to forgive.
So should the rest of you.
Disgusting!!
I can’t wait until all churches, mosques, synagogues and other “houses of worship” are blown up, bulldozed or burned to the ground! Or maybe we can just turn them all into saloons and strip bars, at least then they would serve some purpose.
Disgusting!!
All churches, synagogue, mosques and other “houses of worship” should be destroyed. Or maybe we can trun them into saloons or strip bars, at least then they would serve a usefull purpose.
In reading this article from Los Angeles, as you that condemn the Catholic church, for these crimes, please acknowledge the crimes of pediphilia committed by other religious sects as well. The attention on the Catholics is exposed more. That’s it, it happens all over the world. Gees, some countries actually invite people to vacation and sleep with their children for a price.Hence, the Indonesian visitors during the December 26th tsunami. Very disturbing indeed that the Catholic church is pointed out and not other religious sects for child rape. MORMONS, BAPTISTS, WICCANS,even BAHAIs. They are just as guilty and the numbers are even greater. Point blank, protect your kids, teach them to have a voice, they need to love and trust their GOD(s).Only that. Humans are full of mistakes, defense is the most important thing to learn, ignorance has never been bliss. We will never end evil, it has many faces, and also serves purpose to balance. So,please attack all pediphiles in each religion before you go full scale on just one. I personally would sever each pediphiles genitals off for their crimes. Maybe labotomies are more favorable. Please don’t take offense by what I have said. Every part of the human race, no matter creed or religion has evil in it, some more than others. You know what, slaughter has a point, religion has hurt many places and races over time, this era of crime is proving it again. WTFDWD?
NAMBLA is an accepted organization in nearly every, major, gay parade.Posted by: Econ101 | July 17, 2007 at 11:07 PM
Econ,
That’s an outrageous lie. I don’t know who told you that NAMBLA is in “every major gay parade,” or if you’re just making it up yourself, but NOTHING could be further from the truth.
Let me make this clear: NAMBLA IS A CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION, AND IS TREATED AS SUCH BY THE GAY COMMUNITY. It is NOT invited to march in Pride parades. It is NOT part of any coalition or movement for lgbt civil rights.
Econ, I am a parent. My partner and I have a 19-year old in college. Many, many gay and lesbian Americans are also parents. If not parents, we’re aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters. NONE OF US WANTS TO SEE CHILDREN ABUSED.
The facts are these: The percentage of pedophiles among gays is statistically identical to the percentage among heterosexuals.
If you can find any organization that accepts NAMBLA, I’d like to know about it.
Heheheheh Tom, ya beat me to it.
“However, NAMBLA is an accepted organization in nearly every, major, gay parade.”
That is just NUTS. Hell paulie, if you dont know something, do you ALWAYS just make shit up?
Sowhatnow says that “Very disturbing indeed that the Catholic church is pointed out and not other religious sects for child rape. MORMONS, BAPTISTS, WICCANS,even BAHAIs. They are just as guilty and the numbers are even greater.”
Can you substantiate this ridiculous claim? The fact is, only the Catholic Church has followed a policy of systematically protecting the abusing Priests. Remember the Patterson story in the Eagle? Mrs. Patterson only went public about her son’s abuse *after* she learned that the Bishop had broken his word to her and had placed the abusing Priest in another parish where he would be around kids.
These Priests should all be in jail. They are sexual predators and a danger to society. They are far more dangerous, and have committed far more crimes, than most of the folks we have locked up at Larned in the sexual predator treatment program.
The problem is the way it is viewed by religious institutions. Many religions have this aspect of abuse, not just the Catholics. It’s complicated, but simply put, pedophiles often seek out places where they might find control over their urges. They realize they’re not “normal” and so they look to external controls to make up for the internal ones they lack.The problem with most churches is that they view behavior as “sinful” or “righteous”, and that we either choose to give into temptation and become sinful or we choose to live a righteous life. There is little focus on or understanding of mental health issues. When someone with those issues acts out their urges or compulsions, the church sees it as “sin” and therefore if the “sinner” is repentant and confesses his sins, he can be forgiven and go on his way to “sin no more” as Jesus would deal with him. That’s the model used to deal with these issues.The problem with this is that in the real world, people have mental illnesses, and as long as the church views them as only “sinners”, then the only intervention is to forgive them and expect them to resist temptation in order not to “sin” anymore. In the church’s view, it’s very simplistic..and that’s the real problem. ALL churches need to re-frame the way they think of “sin” and start understanding the reality of mental illness. The Church used to think that those with seizures were pocessed by the devil, therefore they invented elaborate rituals to “cast out the demons”. Today, we know how ignorant that is.The church needs to progress into the 21st century to effectively deal with sexual predators who seek refuge in the safety of the Church.Mormons, Amish, and other restrictive and fundamentalreligions also have the same issues, it’s about being a closed society. The Church doesn’t turn normal men into pedophiles because they can’t get married. People are pedophiles because they have a mental illness, and they see the Church as a safe haven from their urges, but of course it doesn’t work.
I want to know where the Catholic Church is getting all this money to pay for their covering up of pedophile priests.
If they are taking it from the current people who are giving their money to the church, then that is wrong.
It should be stipulated that the Church has to sell some of their property, get rid of all the gold and other precious art in their possession. And, if need be, make the Pope have to ride in an ordinary car and not that Pope mobile!
Personally, I cannot see why any one with half a brain cell left continues to support this church when the truth has been told and proven. Where is the moral outrage? Does the Catholic Church only care about the unborn?
with all due respect mary, the Church knowingly covered up for the pedophile priests. That is why all the lawsuits.
If the church would have dealt with the pedophile priests at the time and kicked them out of the church or had turned them over to the police, then all these lawsuits would not have merit in the courts.
The Catholic Church took the pedophile priests’ side over young children that had no way out of that sick environment. I just hope and pray there is a special Hell for these people.
Fred, that’s true, but it was for the reasons above.Back in the days when all this was happening, people didn’t necessarily go to the police when these things happened.. the awareness wasn’t there like it is today, especially with sexual abuse.Confession is a scared trust in the Church..so priests weren’t legally obligated to go to the authorities when someone confessed a crime. Their obligation was to forgive the “sinner” in the name of God and then expect them to change their ways.Yes, it’s VERY dysfuctional, that’s why I’ve forsaken all relgion. I prefer to live in the real world and hold people accountable.You have to also remember that this is a minority of priests we’re taking about, not the majority. Most priests are good men who care about their congregations. I’ve known many priests are do a wonderful job ministering to church members. I’m not Cathoilc anymore, but I refuse to hate the Catholic Church. It has done way more good than bad. None of this abuse reflects Catholic doctrine, and there are sick people in every religion, not just the Catholic religion. The Church needs to take resposibility, recognize the difference between mental illness and “sin”, and make changes to ensure those with mental health issues stay out of Church leadership positions.
Hmmmmm………. Maybe if they hadn’t had so many homosexual priests they wouldn’t have had the problem. Obviously if they had followed Biblical principles and cleaned out all of the “pink” seminaries this wouldn’t have been a problem.
What’s amazing is how the media can write so many thousands of stories about homosexuals molesting young boys and never discuss the role homosexuality played in the scandal.
Keep the known perverts away from the children and most of your problem goes away.
Well, where their is smoke, their is fire, but the reality is a bunch of these people are liars. The Church has been soaked, and I’ll admit, through their own mistakes.
Hell, anyone could have come forward with a story and gotten on the list for payouts.
ben,Source of statistics on high tendency of homosexuals to molest boys is Traditional Values Coalition.See their pagehttp://traditionalvalues.org/urban/one.php
The last statistical guess from within the Catholic Church, says it believes about 0.1% of its priests are homosexual in USA…
The numbers of priests “caught” molesting children is about 1% of ALL priests of the Church… here in USA, and around the world…
The difference, as I was told, is an extremely small percentage of priests with “deviant behavior” problems… Oddly enough, that would just about match the non-clergy population for the Church… Hmmmmmm
“The numbers of priests “caught” molesting children is about 1% of ALL priests of the Church… here in USA, and around the world…”
———————————–Pure BS.
6700 were caught and at the time of the article there have been 110,000 clergy dating back to 1950. That doesn’t account for all of those children who live or died with their secret and it also doesn’t account fo rth efact that a substaltial number of priest who were accused of abuse were never investigated because they died.
In order to see the whole picture you need to know that all of this is only the tip of the iceburg. I did some researched a few years ago when all of this began to surface and came up with some alarming statistics.
“The Diocese of Yakima, Washington, said in a news release that the survey compiled by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice found 4,392 of the 109,694 clergy who served over that five-decade period faced allegations of abuse.
The survey was overseen by the National Review Board, a lay watchdog panel the bishops formed at the height of the abuse crisis. The review board had a Friday morning news conference scheduled in Washington to discuss the report and a companion study on how the abuse crisis developed.
Dioceses nationwide received 10,667 abuse claims since 1950, according to the news release. Of those, claims by 6,700 were substantiated. Another 3,300 were not investigated because the accused clergymen were dead.
Another 1,000 claims proved to be unsubstantiated, the diocese said.
The national report also tallied abuse-related costs at $533.4 million. “http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…shtml
110,000 clergy, 10,700 claims of abuse equals almost 10%.
My Gay friends:
I would defend you, myself, against any untrue charge. I would come to your assistance if I saw that you needed help.
However, I must speak the truth on these issues.
Gay groups have been VERY slow to condemn NAMBLA:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nambla
“The Gay Activists Alliance (GAA), a group which splintered from the Gay Liberation Front in December of 1969, opposed age-of-consent laws and hosted a forum on the topic in 1976. In 1972 Chicago’s Gay Activists Alliance and New York’s Gay Activists Alliance jointly sponsored a conference that brought together gay rights activists from eighty-five different gay rights organizations and eighteen states.[15] At the conference these approximately 200 activists coalesced to form the National Coalition of Gay Organizations, and drafted and passed a “Gay Rights Platform” which called for the “repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent.” The Canadian Lesbian and Gay Rights Coalition, also known as the National Gay Rights Coalition (NGRC), supported eliminating age-of-consent laws, as did Gay Alliance Toward Equality (GATE).[16″
So, the Catholic Church definately screwed up on the issue of child moslesting Priests, but the number of abusing Priests was statistically low. The Catholic Church does not attempt to “solve” this issue by making pedophilia “legal”.
However, several Gay Rights groups HAVE tried to eliminate statutory rape laws.
The truth hurts.
Show some courage, gay leaders, and start working to chanage YOUR organizatoins — BEFORE you point fingers elsewhere!
Econ,
That was _35_years_ ago, back when the first LGBT advocacy groups were forming. NAMBLA and their ilk have been completely rejected by modern organizations. ANYONE who supports them is supporting a criminal enterprise.
A GAY person wrote the attached:
http://www.brentpayton.com/andrew/How%20NAMBLA%20Hurts%20Us.txt
That GAY writer complained about a NAMBLA banner, in a Gay Rights Parade, behind then-Mayor Dinkins head.
Get your facts straight, my friends!
At the very least, don’t call ME a liar until you can prove that I am wrong, ok?
I called it on July 17 at 1:28.
If you have to go back to 1972 to find incriminating incidents, I think the repukes wouldnt want to go there. I mean hell, the republicans supporting david duke the klansman is more recent history!
The founder of American “Gay Rights” was a firm supporter of NAMBLA:
http://www.cwfa.org/articles/2751/CFI/cfreport/index.htm
Econ,
And you see how he was discredited and marginalized by the vast majority of gay and lesbian Americans. People like Harry Hay _claimed_ to speak for us, but in the end, it was clear they do _not._
Can I hang every lynching, every abortion clinic bombing and murder, on YOU?
It is a well established fact that gay men are much more likely to molest young boys. Yes, there are heterosexual child molestors but gay men are much more likely to engage in that behavior.
Jonas,
So that’s why all the news stories are about young _girls_ being kidnapped and murdered, right? That’s why, on NBC’s “To Catch a Predator” series, almost all the perpetrators are pursuing people they think are young girls, right?
Jesus wept, paulie. First off, I hardly think CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA, one of the most ANTI gay groups in the country, is any kind of authority on anything gay.
The “concerned women” have one goal in life, and that is to deny equal protection under the law to gay people. OF COURSE they will try to tie nambla to the legitimate gay organizations.
Second, Harry Hay supported NAMBLA’s right to march. Protecting someone’s freedom of speech is NOT supporting the goals of the organization. And that is a distinction WITH a difference.
But then, I’m not surprised you dont get that paulie. The concept of protecting the speech of those with whom you disagree, is EXACTLY why you also just dont get it about the ACLU.
Give it up paulie if that is the best you can do. It’s so predictable from you all I can call it two days in advance.
Big eye roll…
It’s also a well-established fact that people named Jonas get swallowed by whales.
See how easy it is?
Instead of actually presenting the facts, one need only say, “it’s a well-established fact that _____”
Jonas, this is what the editors have been talking to you about . . .
I guess since the more conservative sects of Mormanism still support polygamy, we should say that catholics support poligamy, I mean, since they are both christian churches and all…
Isnt it funny how bad news about the catholic church gets diverted by some insane arguement against gay people?
nice side step
Farmgrrl,
Speaking as a member of Wichita Pride’s board: If NAMBLA tried to walk in Wichita’s Pride Parade, they would be laughed out of town.
Then reported to the authorities.
If they want “free speech,” they can go to City Council and get their own parade permit. They don’t have any right to insert themselves into any parade where they’re not wanted.
It’s a well-established fact that 97 percent of all pedophiles voted for George W. Bush if they voted for anyone in the last election.
see the link
http://www.jonasfakefacts.org for more
The SSPX catholics think the true pope is some guy named micheal who lives outside Chase county.
So… can we extrapolate that ALL catholics think the pope is some guy named micheal living in kansas?
The fact remains that catholic priests have been molesting children. Does that mean the church also supports nambla?
Tom, I’m just pointing out the truth about what Harry Hay said. He supported their right to march. I dont recall him saying he supported nambla’s mission.
“They don’t have any right to insert themselves into any parade where they’re not wanted.”
That’s exactly what the hibernians say about the St. Patrick’s day parades that want to ban gay organizations.
Of course, the gay groups are not promoting illegal behavior, but prior to Lawrence v. Texas, they were.
Please dont let paulie turn this thread into a gay thread. It is about PEDOPHILE priests, not gay people.
Farmgrrl,
Three weeks ago, virulently anti-gay Spirit One “Christian” Center tried to force their way into our parade. We didn’t want them, and WPD wouldn’t let them. Then they tried to force their way into the festival grounds. Their pastor ended up getting arrested for criminal trespass.
I hear you about not wanting to let Econ turn this into a gay thread. You’re right about that. But we also have to speak out against his, and others, attempts to put us in the same bed with criminal child abusers.
“Of course, the gay groups are not promoting illegal behavior, but prior to Lawrence v. Texas, they were.”
Sophistry. What happens between consenting adults is one thing. Child molestation is another.
“What happens between consenting adults is one thing. Child molestation is another.”
Agreed. I’m not a fan of nambla or any such thing. I agree we have to resist being tied to those groups, but I also think we need to resist oppressing others. And we need to protect free speech.
I dont want us to be like other minorities who, once they get a few rungs up on the ladder, forget where they came from and want to pull the ladder up after themselves.
The vast majority of sexual predators are straight men. Most victims are young girls. 98% of sexual abuse victims are female. Gay people make up a samll minority of sexual predators. Just goes to show you how widespread sexual abuse is when you look at the numbers. America needs to take good hard look at itself. Now the popular thing is the torture, rape, kill movies with young women as victims. Our society has lost it’s mind and we only have ourselves to blame. We support and even condone this garbage in entertainment, on the internet, in music, video games, etc, and then wring our hands when sociopaths (and there’s a lot of them) act it out and cry “WHY?”. Dennis Rader would be so proud.
TomI applaud your argruments. I respect the stand you have taken.
Groups who sponsor parades should NOT allow others, who they don’t support, to “hijack” their parade.
Freedom of Association goes both ways, in political life. Every group has an OBLIGATION to say who does, and does NOT speak for that group.
Thank you, Mary Caruso, for your thoughtful and well-reasoned analysis. I agree the church needs to think more in terms of mental illness, and less in terms of sin.