The federal minimum wage increased Tuesday to $5.85 an hour, but that didn’t help an estimated 19,000 Kansans not covered by the federal law. Those Kansans still only have to be paid the state’s minimum wage — a measly $2.65 an hour.
“The Kansas minimum wage is a poverty wage,” Carla James, president of Kansas Action Network, said at a Statehouse rally Tuesday calling for an increase in the state wage, the Topeka Capital-Journal reported.
The Legislature rejected a proposed increased this past session, with many lawmakers arguing it might hurt small businesses. It’s also unclear how many Kansans actually make only $2.65 an hour.
But Heidi Zeller of KAN noted that if a person works full time at $2.65 an hour, he earns less than $6,000 annually. “A job should keep you out of poverty,” she said, “not keep you poor.”
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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58 Comments
I can tell you quite a few do make the mimimum wage of 2.65 an hour as their salary. But when waitressing, the employer makes up the difference of Federal wage if the waitress didn’t make enough to average out the tips to meet that. So if you work an 8 hour shift and bust your butt for 3 hours of it during the rushes…and it’s dead the rest of the time time…you still have to take that average through the whole shift. It’s usually the part time employees who do well with the tips as they more often work the rushes, not the full time ones- who often depend on that money to make ends meet.
It’s wrong, tips are supposed to be for a job well done, not as part of the salary. Restaurants in other states don’t have trouble paying the regular minimum wage. We shouldn’t either.
Remember that I said last week my daughter was working in a restaurant where they were trying to pay her under the table…till I insisted they put her on the actual payroll. She was fired the day minimum wage went up- not even a week after I insisted her boss pay her fair and square.
Gee, wonder why that is. I think they were going to attempt to keep paying the young kids under min. wage. And they’re obviously not paying payroll taxes on that either.
Guess what? I called the Dept Of Labor on this…and they said they didn’t care about it as long as she was earning something. Our own dept of labor doesn’t care that employees (minors too) are screwed by their employers. Nice huh?
I heard that so long as any of those businesses accept credit cards, they have to abide by the Federal Minimum Wage law, because credit card processing is considered inter-state commerce.
Other than that. I was talking to business owners the other day. One told me they are forced to buy the updated “Federal Law” posters about wages that have to be put up. Cost is $89 for a freakin poster.
Stuff like that has been a racket for years. the IRS contracts with companies they can very well provide for themselves for free, but companies in certain politician ’s district gets government to set up a contract with them, so they can make money off of it, when it is absolutely not necessary.
Same reason that the IRS can very well provide the software, and online, tax returns to be filled and filed. Instead, they assigned contracts with Intruit and other tax preparer companies so that these people can make money off of people for something the people have to do. What a crock of crap.
That new Federal Minimum Wage poster should cost $5 at most. If nothing at all.
Joe! A lot of companies send out flyers telling people they have to buy “their version” of posters at high cost. I suspect that if you do a little research you will find that appropriate posters can be obtained for a lot less. I know that is the case with health/safety/environment postings.
Actually, Joe, I believe the posters are available from DOL at either no charge or a small fee for handling, etc. The problem is that it will be a delay in obtaining the same. Meanwhile, the $89 is the charge by a private org that supplies all needed posters, etc. with a quick delivery time.
Ok! I get it! It’s like the funny guy that wears the joker suit with all the question marks all over it, telling people to buy his “special” book for $60, because he has the “secrets” to getting government grants. Ask Lesko or something like that, when that list is available by the US government online for free.
Actually! I found the page were you can just download it and print it out for free. The Federal Minimum Wage poster that is. Already updated!
http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/posters/flsa.htm
That’s right Joe! And if companies choose to not get good advice they get taken. I see that a lot in the health/safety/environment field.
Anyone who supports working on $2.65 an hour should try it if they think it’s enough to live on. Enough said.
Now that is just bunch of crap!A business tries to pay out as little they can on wages and benefits, the workers will not work such little amount and if they cannot get them to work for them then they try for illegal immigrants.
Anyone have a listing of KS lawmakers that voted not to raise the KS min. wage?
BTW, Kansas is the only state with a minimum wage below the Federal minimum wage. Aren’t we progressive?
“…estimated 19,000 Kansans not covered by the federal law.”
Has anyone on this Blog ever established with sources who these 19,000 people are?
Are they people who work for tips on top of their hourly wage or ?
Sources please, no guesses.
That is a good question RepubliKhan –As far as the report from Topeka Capital-Journal their report comes from what the Kansas Action Network is saying, but it would be interesting to find out where they get their info from.I did go to their website, their contact info is –Bill Beachy1248 SW BuchananTopeka, Kansas 66604785-232-4388Email Bill Beachy at ksaction@aol.com
I’ve said it before, any business that can’t afford to pay its employees a living wage has no business being in business! Any employer who profits from keeping his employees in poverty is no more than a thief!
I read something about a company ripping off small bus. for the fed. posters., sounds like joe’s friend got took.
TIPS are not supposed to be SALARY. They shouldn’t have to make up the difference in tips.
Phantom - that scam is almost as old as the Nigerians.
political_mom, just so I understand, which do you and your daughter prefer: a job paying less than the new minimum wage, or no job?
Because it seems that for the situation you and your daughter face, this is the choice, isn’t it?
Is your daughter able to find a job somewhere else? If so, why did she accept a job with a terrible, cheating employer in the first place?
I am kind of split on this one. My brother has been trying to hire some workers at $10/hour and had a very hard time A. finding applicants that were decent and B. finding people that would show up to work when they were hired.Maybe $2.65/hour is all that some labor is worth?
What the hell is this “living wage” supposed to amount to anyway? By who’s standards?
This is called the value of an education.If they paid $25 an hour to work at McDonald’s what would be the incentive to go do something productive for a living?
I also wonder this: there are, as the article states, some 19,000 Kansas working for companies where the federal minimum wage law doesn’t apply, and so their minimum wage is $2.65.
But how many of these 19,000 workers are paid just $2.65?
How many are paid, say $10.00, even though their employer is required to pay only $2.65?
I don’t know the answer to that.
But it could be that most of them already earn what the new federal minimum wage is.
Nationwide, 30 states had minimum wage levels above the new federal level, so workers in those states (probably) weren’t helped at all (if increasing the minimum wage actually helps workers, that is).
I say that because an increase in the minimum wage helps those who keep their jobs, but as political_mom shows us, not everyone keeps their job after an increase.
Then, of course, we never become aware of the people not hired.
Well, working at McDonald’s is doing something of _some_ value, or McDonald’s wouldn’t pay their employees anything at all.
Anonymous said this:”Then, of course, we never become aware of the people not hired.”
I think it was Political Science Professor Mel Kahn, at Wichita State, (quotiing someone else) who taught me:”Politicians need identifiable beneficiaries and invisible victims.”
Kahn is a HONEST Democrat.
Anway, when we “raise” the minimum wage, we don’t ever get a precise count of the number of busienss which close.
Those businesses did banking, internet, trash, food, office supply, utility and other business. All the businesses that supplied the failed business are now hurt.
However, the politicians get to claim some kind of weird “success” or credit for eliminating jobs.
The government cant set the price of oil, gold, drugs, stocks, food or anything else without causing shortages and a black market.
When the government sets the price of labor, you get higher unemployment.
Every country in Europe has a higher unemployment rate than the United States. Rediculous mandated benefits are the reason why.
Yes, I know some jobs suck.
If your solution eliminates jobs, how have you helped anyone?
If your job sucks, get another job!
Well we didn’t know her employer was a cheat. If you can’t operate your business within the confines of the law, you shouldn’t be in business. The employer was trying to illegally hire these kids to do work under the assumption of a regular hourly paid job…not contract labor.
Defending exploitation of workers….
It’s good for the economy…
The mantra of Republicons.
I think we can all agree that it’s wrong to pay someone more or less than the value they bring to whatever endeavor. In the end, if it is wrong to pay someone less than they are ‘worth’ it is also wrong for someone to pay more than what that person is ‘worth’.
Morally, you cannot have it both ways on this one. A fair wage for your ‘work’ may not give you a so-called ‘living wage’. That does not mean that someone is cheating you.
So as not to get caught up in semantics, we should clarify what a ‘fair wage’ is.
I think this is more targeted at the natural wage set by the supply and demand for the labor. If no one will work at $2.50, people are fighting to get the job at $3.50 and the jobs are adequately full at $3.00, the fair wage would be $3.00 because that is rate at which labor is willing to meet the demand.
Brian, to your definition I suggest be added to “adequately full at $3.00″ the following “filled by those legally able to hold them”. Now, if one wishes to quibble with this under the idea of supply and demand, then I suggest dismantling a barrier to entry into the labor market, namely the immigration laws.
In the real world, other factors than pure labor economics must be considered.
Quality of work can become an issue, maybe people will work at $3.0 but they do a poor job, so you must pay $3.25 to get quality laborers and the employer then sorts through the crappy ones.
Inequality of power between workers and companies has been a major issue in the past. Of course that led to unions, anti-trust laws, etc. I do not think this is as much of a problem now in most US industries, but it is still something that must be considered, especially in specialized industries.
(I hate to mention this, but I want to be fair) Illegal immigration is also something that can shift the pay rate down in a labor economic situation.
These factors all lead to the establishment of a wage floor. The Government has a vested interest in saying that its citizens must be paid at least a minimum amount.With Kansas at $2.65 and the rest of the country at a minimum of $5.85, what does that tell us about how the government of our state views the worth of its citizens?
Brian
You are an employer trying to justify hiring a man who just came off of prison work-release.
His skills are such that you think he can be taught, gradually, some of the details of your complex business and move up the ladder, over time.
However, this man went to jail, in part, for stealing from a former employer.
You want to give him a second chance, but he is simply NOT worth minimum wage, given the risk.
Why can’t the employer and the employee decide, between themselves, what the starting wage should be?
Liberal propaganda.Some very quick research - In 2002 1.4 million Kansans were employed (unemployment is now lower than it was 5 years ago). 19,000 is not even 1.5% of the workforce.Hardly an epidemic.If you can’t find a job making more than $2.65 an hour, you have a lot more problems than only making $2.65 an hour.
Be glad you have that. The Republicans would rather not have ANY minimum wage. They long for the days of chattel slavery, sweat shops and child labour.
I teach in a small college. On the day this issue was debated in the house of representative, I was in the gallery with a group of college students. We had known this was likely to be debated that day so I had asked the students a day ahead to review the law and the related issues.
The students, who had never been to Topeka before, who had never seen the legislature work, and who had known NOTHING about the STATE minimum wage law just the day before, were shocked by the rampant ignorance and ineptitude of the many legislators who spoke. Most of the legislators testifying, presented arguments (both pro & con) that were based upon the federal regulations and the federal minimum wage. THEY DIDN’T EVEN KNOW THE ISSUES THEY WERE DEBATING! But debate they did! My 18 & 19 year old students were looking at me in dismay and pointing out the errors in fact and the flaws in judgement. It was pitifully educational.
OK, some FACT.
The STATE minimum wage of $2.65 is a relatively rare salary. The state estimates that there are approximately 19,000 people in the state employed by businesses who MAY pay that hourly rate. (put in perspective this is fewer people than are currently enrolled at K-State) The fact that they are legally able to pay only 2.65 doesn’t mean they have many people who are only earning 2.65 an hour.
Next, if the business is in any direct manner involved in interstate commerce (business transactions,) that business must pay (at least) the FEDERAL Minimum wage. Hmmmm, interstate commerce? Whats that? It can be as simple as, Does your business sell anything by mail? Do you directly ship any product out of state? Do you accept ANY type of credit card? (Visa, Mastercard, Texaco, etc.) Do you market your product on the internet? All of these business activities qualify as interstate commerce, and thus are subject to federal regulation.
So who does the state minmum wage impact? Largely businesses in the agricultural and service sector. Farm hands, people in agricultural and small family businesses, laborers, housekeepers,and child care workers. Thats pretty much it. Quite often, the “minimum wage eligible” workers are the adolescent children in family run business.’
knowledge is our friend.Gary Bachman
very interesting Gary, thanks for the info
Gary, when I worked at PIZZA HUT as a waitress, I made the 2 dollars & whatever cents at the time minimum wage. It affects more than you know.
What i don’t understand is how can a waters can make 2 something an hour if the federal min wage is 5 what ever an hr?
Ive honestly never had a minimum wage job, so i have no clue.
I’m a college student trying to make my way. As a waiter or waitress working in poverty, the business owner is making a killing on my low wages. He charges 20 bucks for a 7 dollar steak, $1.50 for a penny’s worth of iced tea, and pays me the minimum. He EXPECTS me to make it up on tips, then he underreports the tips. It’s a racket that is not right. Government interference in wages is also not right. But the thing is, once government stepped IN to the problem, they only made is worse. They provide the cover for the businesses to not be competitive. But once the government decided to establish the wage, now they MUST bring it up. Otherwise, they are responsible for my situation.
Waiter, that is an excellent case for the elimination of government regulation!
It usually makes things worse, not better.
By the way, the “$1.50 for a penny’s worth of iced tea” leaves out a lot of the story, don’t you think?
If that’s true, I wonder how a restaurant chain like Applebee’s has a profit margin of 4.7%.
Walter, if you would like to more than double your $2.65 hourly wage, post back. I can provide at least 40 hours per week worth of work at the new federal minimum wage, before tips (not that there would be many).
“By the way, the “$1.50 for a penny’s worth of iced tea” leaves out a lot of the story, don’t you think?”
Very good point anonymous. There is a lot more to ‘cost’ than direct materials.
No thanks on the job offer. Another guy told me he knew where I could get a job planting Tulips for 12 bucks an hour.
Besides, I do get more on a good night in tips, which the present wage system encourages me not to report. The trouble is, I get a lot of college workers, employees, professors, and woman who are not big tippers. I don’t know what it is about these types of people.
What kind of a nut works for minimum wage?
What is our public education system doing? Producing nuts.
I see ads all the time for $8/hour at fastfood restraunts.
Makes you wonder why so many would work for less than that.
I question the numbers, what’s the source for the 19,000 making less than min wage?
Probably counting illegal immigrants.
So Walter, is your problem that some people do not tip good, the present wage system does not encourage your to report all of your tips, or that the minimum wage for people in your profession is $2.65 even though you and most waiters make more than that?
Walter, also, I think you may be misinformed about the minimum wage that actually applies to your job.
Would you tell us where you work? I imagine that the Federal Minimum Wage actually covers you.
See, I told you so!
Waiter is gonna get a job planting Tulips for $12 an hour! That’s $24,000 per year!
Those jobs are available, to those who are willing to work.
Our public education is working after all, at least to train tulip planters.
I hate to tell that kid Walter but the reason we had minimum wages in the first place is because businessowners took advantage of their labor and kept them enslaved by it.
You either worked for what they paid or you didn’t work at all. Or did he miss that history lesson in College?
If you think it’ll be good to go where there is no minimum wage, I suggest China or Mexico to give you an idea.
If you hadn’t noticed P-mom, that’s exactly where American jobs are going now - China and Mexico.
Americans have become too spoiled and won’t work for less than $10-$15 an hour, even the new kids coming out of high school and college.
It’s too easy to stay home or live off of welfare.
Vernon, you can’t really get welfare just because you do not want a job.
Really? Brian, what country do you live in?
Vernon, you are so wrong about living off welfare by staying home and not working! Before you go spouting off go check the facts from the local welfare office! And don’t give me that “I know some people who are not working and living off welfare” story. Because if that’s the case then you need to report them to to local office immediately! Of course, you won’t because they don’t exist! Welfare is not for those wno don’t want to work! Like I said prove it or shut it!
I just noticed above someone posting to Walter. I guess that was meant for me, even though I logged on as Waiter.
I would rather NOT have to rely on tips for my job. (BTW, for those less observant readers, I am not in this for a profession.)
It is unfair and archaic. It was by design manufactured by business of old, to allow for slave labor.
Some of the others do not get good tips, but provide the same level of service I do. Some females get bigger tips. On weekends, the drunks sometimes leave outrageous tips, but many don’t tip at all.
Pay me a fair wage for my services. Let the business report it as personnel expenses, allow me to qualify for everything any of you who put me down for my present job get - in YOUR full time job.
The government started this mess by trying to be “compassionate”. Now they have the responsiblity to bring my government controlled wages up to inflation changes over twenty some years (like that will happen).
You must agree it is unrealistic of me to believe that the government will STOP the price controls. unlike Carter impossed during the gas war, that will never happen. No welfare program ever started - ended. They just increase those eligible for them, and in my case GIVE ME A FAIR GOVERNMENT WAGE INCREASE!!
Waiter is gonna get a job planting Tulips for $12 an hour! That’s $24,000 per year!
Posted by: Vernon | July 26, 2007 at 09:14 AM
I didn’t say I was going to get a job making 12 an hour. I said another person told me WHERE I could get the job. Please read.Did I tell you WHERE Vernon?
Question: Why is it that the left-wingers are always complaining about how they are not making enough money but it’s the right-wingers who are supposed to be greedy?
My sister was a waitress. In slow times she would make 30-40 dollars/day/nite. On good days she would make up to 100 dollars in tips.
She got a part time waiting job at an upscale restaurant and made on occasion $200.00 a shift.
This was back in the 1980s too.
There were lots of jobs that didn’t pay on average anywhere near what my sister made as a wait person - Gas Station attendants, convenience store clerks, fast food, some cooks, janitors, etc etc. etc. All of those non-waiting jobs were paid by the hour and received no tips at all.
I think minimum wage should be increased at the same pace as cost of living. This could easily be accomplished by tying increases in Congressional pay and benefits to increases in minimum wage.
PEOPLE! If you expect to be taken seriously you need to be able to differentiate between fact and opinion. Arguing a particular point of view well doesn’t necessarily make your argument accurate.
To “waiter” & “political mom:” The topic has been the STATE minimum wage. Your issues are with the federal regulation. (I don’t take my Dodge Dakota to a Toyota dealer for service …)Quoting the US Dept. of Labor: “National or multi-state restaurant chains are subject to FEDERAL minimum wage laws.” In the federal regulations various minimum wage exceptions apply under specific circumstances to disabled workers, full-time students, youth under age 20 in their first 90 days of employment, TIPPED EMPLOYEES, and student-learners.
Tipped employees are those who customarily and regularly receive more than $30 a month in tips. The employer may consider tips as part of wages, but the employer must pay at least $2.13 an hour in direct wages. The Fair Labor Standards Act allows restaurants and other employers to use tips and to make up the difference between the subminimum wage for “tipped employees” and everyone else’s $5.15 hourly minimum wage. (The federal rates noted here, increased this past week to 2.18 & &5.85)
The US Dept of Labor refers to this process as the “Tip offset.” This process is described on the their website as “ the amount of money by which an employer, in meeting the legal minimum wage standard, may reduce a tipped employee’s wage in consideration of the receipt of tips. The Small Business Job Protection Act of 1996 requires a fixed dollar tip offset. A minimum cash amount of $2.18 per hour should be paid to tipped employees. If tips actually received are not sufficient, when added to $2.18, to total the federal minimum wage, the employer must also pay the additional difference to the tipped employee.”
Waiter, as for the federal issues you decry, you do make some very valid arguments. And then some that are not so valid. You are right on target that this process amounts to a federal (public) subsidy of the restaurant industry.(ok, that’s our opinion…) And that subsidy amounts to nearly 15% of the industries gross product. I wholly agree with you that tipping is archaic. It also tempts avoidance of the law. (How many honestly report their tips knowing that taxes will then be taken out?)
The Feds were not at all in pursuit of “compassion” in setting up this procedure. They were seeking a way to hold restraunts (employers) and tipped employees accountable for more accurately reporting their true income. And thus paying their fair share of income taxes.
As for your comment, “No welfare program ever started - ended.” I have to differ. You are perhaps simply uninformed. I site as a clear example the federal “Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996.” This act is also known as “Welfare Reform Act,” substantially changed and ELIMINATED many long established welfare programs and practices. And it was a bipartisan act promoted by a Democratic president and enacted by a Republican legislature.
And Vernon, to answer your question: the source of the number 19,000 is the Kansas Department of Labor. And again it refers to only those working under the KANSAS minimum wage rules. It does not include the “tipped employees” subject to federal regulation.
Gary Bachman (who for a couple of days anyway, has way too much time on his hands!)
Vernon, that job planting tulips?
Plant your two lips right here.
Some people are NOT worth minimum wage.Give them a chance, today, and, they might be worth even more than minimum wage, tomorrow.
Minimum wage laws create a PERMANENT unemployed class of citizens.
Minimum wage laws create a “barrier to entry” in economic terms.
Minimum wage laws reduce the pool of experienced labor, driving up wages for those who are already above minimum wage.