Add Wichita Police Chief Norman Williams to the list of national law enforcement officials who say they’d like greater access to crime gun data in the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives’ gun trace database — information the ATF is restricting under its interpretation of the Tiahrt amendment.
In an interview with The Eagle editorial board, the chief said he shared concerns that release of sensitive gun trace data, if handled improperly, could inadvertently reveal the identity of undercover cops.
But Williams also noted the importance of gun trace data in crime fighting — gangs, for instance, often use stolen guns — and said having the raw aggregate gun data now locked up “would be helpful” to police in analyzing regional patterns of gun trafficking.
As long as the safety of cops is ensured, Williams said, he would like access to this crime-fighting tool.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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33 Comments
A crime fighting tool, do you get that?In light of recent events, gang members are now using automatic rifles to shoot their victims.When someone wants to kill you they are going to kill you no matter what.If you were to take away guns, then they would be using knifes just as in a recent event in front of a Quiktrip store.When someone wants to kill you they are going to kill you no matter what.So what is next, what other items can you kill a person with?The ATF is not exactly on the front lines of defense fighting against crime; maybe some institutions are way too selfish and hindering others.Sorry ATF but the few in your organization is not as important as the many.
So, Norman, it looks like the Tiahrt Amendment is really going to be exposed for what it really is; bad for law enforcement. Exposed as in the NRA owns Tiahrt.
The reich-wing want to tap your phone but they don’t want criminal’s gun information shared.
Hey, I got an idea.
Create a phone that’s ALSO A GUN!
Then Bush couldn’t touch you . . .
The liberals want to pass out needles but take our guns.
How about Congress passes a liability cap on gun manufacturers before we do anything else on this matter?
The same people pushing to overturn the Tiahrt Amendment would oppose that liability cap.
You have been exposed, Libs!
OMG! LIBERALS WANT TO TAKE OUR GUNS AWAY!
Except . . . I’M a liberal . . . so who do I give MY guns to?
What a dope.
According to Tiahrt Chief William must want his police force to die. Tiahrt has yet to explain how the bill the NRA paid him to pass is supposed to protect police.
Has nobody written down the answer for him to say yet? If Tiahrt keeps this up the Wichita Eagle may wait a couple of seconds before endorsing him again.
Most law enforcement agencies support Tiahrt on this.Blooming-idiot-berg is a liberal.Murders went DOWN under Rudy.Murders are going UP under Blooming-idiot-berg.He is no expert.He is a dangerous liberal.
Do you have data to substantiate your position Paul? There are quite a number of police officers and organizations against Tiahrt, so where’s your majority?
http://www.protectpolice.org/police/
That’s fine with me, let Chief Williams have access to trace data.
But if he shares it with, private parties, civil litigates or Politicians, then make it a Felony punishable under Federal Law in such instances.
WE pushing Tiahrt again, oh well:
For those not already informed, below are links to two documents you should read before you make a decision on the Tiahrt amendment. (One being the actual amendment – duh!)
There is nothing in the Tiahrt amendment that prohibits tracing firearms data for a bona fide criminal investigation.
For those who want to peruse gun purchase records for any other reason (like a Bloomberg witch hunt), that is not allowed per both the Tiahrt amendment AND the 39 year-old Gun Control Act of 1968.
1)The Tiahrt amendment.http://www.house.gov/tiahrt/communications/press_releases/2007/Tiahrt_gun_amd/TIAHRT_amendment_2.pdf
2)The Gun Control Act of 1968http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm
There is practically no enforcement of existing gun laws.
1.4 million denied by the instant background check. Even when the government has the names and addresses of 1.4 million felons, the government chooses not to enforce the law.
Instead, nuts like Bloomberg dream up new schemes and new laws that will catch not one criminal, but it will bankrupt several gun dealers and gun manufacturers – and that is his true goal.
Instead of Chief Williams, Bloomberg and their ilk diving into confidential gun purchase data for their witch hunt, why don’t they track down the 1.4 million law breakers who have already provided their name and address info – and know that they have broken a gun purchase law?
• The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,Firearm and Explosives’ (ATF) field offices investigated 9,575 National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) denials that were referred by the FBI in 2005.• In 2005 agencies reported 1,400arrests of persons denied a firearm or a permit.• In 2005 U.S. attorney officesaccepted for prosecution 135 NICSdenial cases investigated by ATF.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/bcft05.pdf
The Eagle and all of the mass media keeps publishing lies about the Tiahrt Amendment.
It seems most believe ALL that is written in the news – and the little lambs keep following along.
I wonder if the mass media published an article mandating the drinking of opium laced koolaid every day to prolong your health, if 95% of the population would just follow along?
It is a felony for someone who is not legally able to buy a firearm (eg. previously convicted felon)to attempt to buy a firearm.
So, if an ex-con goes into a gun store and tries to buy a firearm, fails the background check, there should be BATF and FBI all over this guy to prosecute him or her for committing a felony.
Rarely happens folks.
Still, some just want to pass more gun laws. (and not enforce them either)
With no other good Presidential candidates on either side, maybe Bloomberg as an Independent would be the best next President.
I don’t think it’s fair that the press makes fun of him for being short and Jewish, don’t think religion matters.
At least Bloomberg will deal with all these gun problems.
Wonder if our mayor and Police Chief would also be as anxious to know the legal status of the criminals they arrest…?
Would they be interested in getting Section 287g training so they can investigate legal status and then deport the gang members they have been bitching about that cause HALF of the murders here…?
Tulsa is, as are a lot of larger cities now. Lets have our Chief sign up to get this training that is paid for by the Feds. Money is already there….
Lets see if the set of balls is there too.
Lets ask them that…?
DougTry this for starters, I tend to ignore your fake groups that form just to push a political point.Look, instead, to tried and true law enforcement groups that werent formed primarily to push liberal ideas:http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ks04_tiahrt/2007/June132007.htmlProve this statement wrong:”The ATF and the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP), the nation’s largest law enforcement organization, support the Tiahrt Amendment and have requested its reauthorization every year since 2003. Both organizations claim repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment would jeopardize ongoing criminal investigations and risk the lives of undercover law enforcement officers.”
Chief Norman Williams just wants to find out who is buying all the guns in Wichita, what’s wrong with that?
Those who by more than one gun should be put on a watch list.
Gee Mrak, what business is it of the police chief to know who is buying guns?
The Gun Control Act would have to be repealed (in addition to the Tiahrt Amendment) if the Chief just wants to review a list and compile a database of all the gun owners in Wichita.
How exactly do you think the Chief will fight crime by compiling a database of all gun buyers? (Assuming he either breaks the law or has the law changed)
The answer lhg is in the above news article:
“But Williams also noted the importance of gun trace data in crime fighting — gangs, for instance, often use stolen guns — and said having the raw aggregate gun data now locked up “would be helpful” to police in analyzing regional patterns of gun trafficking.”
mrak
You are talking about sociology, politics, and pandering.
The police chiefs, almost everywhere, are appointed. Even supposedly outspoken police chiefs might only be pandering to their liberal mayors and city councils.
Repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment is NOT a high priority, among law enforcement officials, even among the MINORITY of law enforcement officials that would support such a repeal.
This is bogus political BS and Tiahrt will win this battle, hands down.
If the government was serious about cracking down on crime – and not just tracking legal gun purchases and tracking gun owners, the government might:
Track-down 600,000 illegal immigrant fugitives that the government ‘thinks’ are still in the US.
Prosecute the 1.4 million who were denied a legal gun purchase through the National Instant Background check process.
Prosecute the 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants (some crime breakers in this group).
Instead, the government really wants to control law abiding gun owners – because the government wants to control the people, not protect them.
Chief:
You HAVE access to trace data. Read the law.
Sigh. More political posturing. And the WE, with allegedly no agenda on this issue is, again, pushing their agenda.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story, I guess.
BTW – the folks who ought to be on a watch list are idiots who make statements like “Those who by more than one gun should be put on a watch list.”
GMC,
Do you believe bad dealers funnel guns to the street, through straw buyer or its private sales?
Statistics say not from gun shows. Private sale at a gun show helped cause the Columbine tragedy.
Where are criminals getting their weapons if statistics says those guns don’t travel too far?
Do you believe ATF is doing a fine job or should do better?
In 2002, Department of Justice said, ATF found over 50,000 FFL violations but shut no one down.
Your an apologist for the gun industry?
Mrage,
Exactly what do you not understand about people making “straw purchases” of firearms then illegallly transporting them acrossed state lines?
It was illegal in the first place to make a purchase under false pretense.
Having intimate knowledge of the BATF database won’t help either in prevention or in predicting when “straw purchases” are made.
I’m still waiting to here why Bloomberg isn’t up on Federal charges for sending Private Investigators across state lines to attempt to make illegal “straw purchases.”
Any of you Bloomberg defenders know why he isn’t up on charges?
Because the law means nothing to many people, in government, in the press, and certainly criminals, that’s all the more reason to hang on to your guns – and maybe get a couple more.
The Gun Control Act of 1968 already has provisions to identify and stop straw purchases. We do NOT need another law – just enforce the existing laws.
And we do NOT need the Mayor of New York City trying to enforce gun laws all over the USA. It is ILLEGAL for him to do so beyond his New York City jurisdiction.
“(3)(A) Each licensee shall prepare a report of multiple sales or other dispositions whenever the licensee sells or otherwise disposes of, at one time or during any five consecutive business days, two or more pistols, or revolvers, or any combination of pistols and revolvers totalling two or more, to an unlicensed person.”
The Gun Control Act of 1968http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm
To the Wichita Eagle – will you PLEASE do a little bit of research before publishing any more lies about gun control laws? If you can’t read the laws yourself, then hire an attorney.What the Eagle has been publishing is totally wrong, unprofessional, and obviously biased in support of more gun control.
With no credibility in the Press today, no wonder their readership is at all time record lows.
Oh Paul, I see you are just going to make baseless assertions as usual. All the organizations that support the repeal of the Tiahrt amendment are fake? How did you figure that one out? I suppose you must be off your meds and think these are all a bunch of front groups. Heck, even Norman Williams must not be real.
Still waiting on your figures that a majority supports the Tiahrt Amendment. As is usual I don’t expect to get a coherent response.
Repub,
Laws against straw buyers what about the bad gun dealers?
They help straw buyers use their stores! They like the repeat business and bulk sales of guns!
ATF surely found “lost guns” from shelves in some gun stores. Bad record keeping and lost receipts.
Gun store in Tacoma WA. where that sniper and his little friend stole the Bushmaster rifle is still open today.
It’s not fault of the gun dealer how the gun is used if it’s stolen. That’s the excuse to use.
That gun dealer couldn’t remember when it was stolen is a huge problem!Gun store owners can plan robberies of their own product.
A lot of crime guns are stolen. From businesses, family and friends.
Business robberies are inside jobs often! Gun dealers sell out their homes, those residences can be robbed.
ATF is deadly slow shutting down bad dealers. Thanks to Congress and NRA.
ATF can’t change fate of a gun store by shutting down for months, while collecting evidence.
They have to shut it down forever.
That long process allows gundealers to continue sales.
The FBI and IRS can temporary shut any business if they are looking for evidence.
The blame is 50/50 to me. Half the gun dealers fault, the other straw buyers moving the bulk of guns into criminal hands.
Gun dealers don’t ask questions of buyers to determine if one gun is being bought by a straw buyer.
I can’t believe people who want responsible gun ownership belong to the NRA who keeps the ATF weak.
NRA is corrupting Congress. Not because the states CC laws being enacted. It’s NRA support for high capacity weapons built for wars, being sold to the public.
Reasonable people don’t want some guns made. That is not gun control.
Legislation demanding some guns not made, will work to control the gun industry.
Trying to ban guns while they are still being manufactured never worked.
Collectors wanted banned weapons. It’s a collector item, not one they would have ever shot!
Ban the manufacturing of some weapons. Give ATF the ability to temporarily shut down gun dealers.
Cities have to fix reasons why guns are being fired at other people.
Cities aren’t served properly with a weak ATF.
All law enforcement agencies are currently privileged to get and use gun trace data in any and all criminal investigations. Why would police need trace data for any other type of investigation? Police do not pursue civil suits so Bloomberg’s motives are not saving cops or preventing murder. His force as well as any other in America already has access to the data required to do their jobs.
Bloomberg and the Eagle need to get their facts straight and stop lying about gun trace data.
The Chief is a good man (who undoubtedly knows these facts). I doubt that he actually met with the editorial board and said such things. The Eagle has changed in the past few years and now tends to “make up stuff” or “interpret other’s comments” when it is convenenient to make a point on the now ultra-liberal editorial board.
In case you missed it they stopped putting real news on the front page also.
Mrage,
You just used an example that made your whole argument moot.
You wrote the Bushmaster rifle was stolen, not purchased or purchased illegally via “straw purchase.”
Connect the dots for me, I don’t follow your “logic” in your attempt to compare stolen weapons to “straw purchases” and the Bloomberg attempt to squash the Tiarht amendment.
Doug
I think the FOP, by itself, is a majority of MEMBERSHIP.
The “Douggie Do-right antigun group” Doesnt count.
The “Barney Fife one bullet deputies against guns” doesnt count, either, even if you are a member.
If the government tracks gun purchases as well as they do illegals crossing the border there’s nothing to worry about.