Today’s Eagle included articles on the bombing of the Shiite shrine and the killing of two more Fort Riley soldiers in Baghdad, the civil war in Gaza (see photo), another assassination in Beirut, and Iran supplying weapons to the Taliban in Afghanistan. What should the United States do about all these and other problems? The first step should be gaining a better understanding of the Middle East.
Syndicated columnist and terrorism expert Micah Halpern, who met with Sedgwick County security personnel last week to discuss terrorism threats, told The Eagle editorial board that the United States still knows little about the cultures, religions and languages in the Middle East. As a result, he said, our leaders are making decisions about what they don’t understand. And that tends to make the problems even worse.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- Phantom on Health care reform would save state money
- Pleefer on Open thread 11/22
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/22
- Daniel on Open thread 11/22
- Rage on Open thread 11/22
- Rage on Open thread 11/22
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/22
- American_Way on Open thread 11/22
- Rage on Open thread 11/22
- American_Way on Health care reform would save state money
100 Comments
Understanding criminals does not stop crime.
Understanding terrorists will not stop terrorism.
They want us dead.
Why they want us dead isn’t really that important, is it?
The region is on fire because of RELIGION! Religion is toxic, and moronic believers in a god or supreme being can’t help but acting like a**holes!
slaughter
Atheism is responsible for far more death than religion.
Atheistic Communism is responsible for more death than Nazism.
Stalin starved more Soviet people in the Eukrane than what were killed by Hitler.
The Nazis were more of a pagan cult than anything else.
Your history is flawed.
of course 7 years of out control…american foreign policy,and do you remember shock and awe, and bungled hangings of leaders, and sexual scandals in prisons, and making up wmd claims, and starting a war in a country that posed no threat to us, and starting a war that experts all experts warned against and attacking the wrong country…and on and on…
jeez phillip…get a clue
50 years of US intervention, imbalance of power, money/power grab?
Did you want a full alphabetical list?
“Understanding criminals does not stop crime.”
Totally wrong.
The most common reasons we put people behind bars in this country are drugs and alcohol. (see Paris Hilton for example)
You rehabilitate these people and you save 20 grand a year to feed, house and clothe them, plus you turn them into tax paying citizens.
Organized religion as a whole is inheriently evil. Goes back 1000’s of years. People have committed atrocities against one another in the name of GOD. And Micah is right….we do not understand and do not care to understand other cultures. We have made Iraq incredibly unstable and there is a power grab going on. Civil war has already broken out and we simply refuse to acknowledge it. Civil war has broken out now in Gaza. They listened to our bs and elected a government. Now that government is in jeopardy…..isn’t democracy great? Iran is exploiting our lack of credibility to support our enemies. And why not? We did it in Afghanistan with weapons supplied to the rebels in the war with the USSR. And more importantly, we can not do anything to stop Iran. And Iran knows it.
Funny how the fundies go straight to…”they hate us for our freedom” crap. No, they hate you because of your unrelenting support of Isreal, the fact that you have military bases in their homelands, and the fact that you will shove democracy down their throats with the but end of a rifle. Thats why they want to kill you. Your president has made it clear….we will kill you before you have the chance to kill us.
As for the middle east, Hamas WON the last election in Palestine.
Just like here, the Bushistas don’t give a damn who won, they want control.
So they immediately put Hamas in isolation and economic sanction which forced them into the “power-sharing” situation with Fatah.
This is exactly what the US did to the Muslim government that won in Lebanon when it installed a Christian minority to run the place, and the results were the same: on-going civil war.
“You can have control or you can have democracy . . . you can’t have both.” Sandy Berger, former Presidential Security Advisor
“The first step should be gaining a better understanding of the Middle East.”
Of course. That will make it all better.Be afraid of LibWorld. Be very afraid.
Mike says, “they hate you because of your unrelenting support of Isreal, the fact that you have military bases in their homelands, and the fact that you will shove democracy down their throats with the but end of a rifle.”
I basically agree except for one caveat: the democracy that we shove down their throat is not true democracy–it’s vote for whoever you like as long as they agree with us.
Look at how the Bushistas treat three-time elected President of Venezula Hugo Chavez. He’s a “dictator” even though he represents the will of the people there.
That’s the problem.
“Sandy Berger, former Presidential Security Advisor”
Why would one quote a disgrace?
“He’s a “dictator” even though he represents the will of the people there.”
Saddam (the love of you people) received 99% of the vote.
Fleettwood wants someone fixing his car who doesn’t understand how engines work.
If the damn thing doesn’t work, he wants that mechanic to show it who’s boss by hitting it with a sledge hammer. If that doesn’t work, blow it up with a bomb.
That’ll teach it . . .
Jeez, understanding the basic difference between Sunni and Shia would have been horrible when it came to Iraq. After all, we told them to greet us with sweets and flowers.
Wait a second, the intelligence agencies TOLD Bush that there would be problems – he just chose to ignore it.
Understanding, what a horrible thing.
The biggest”terrorist” in the Middle East is Israel. Even the so-called Iraqi government asked us to get the Jews out of Iraq and get those Jews to stop tossing bombs everywhere.
Even the Bush puppet government in Baghdad is wise the the Jews perpetuating the bombings. The Jews want Iraqis to keep fighting American and other Iraqis and that’s surely not being reported by the our propaganda government in the USA.
The Jews want all out war in the Middle East, just ask Joe Lieberman want he wants, or as Lieberman said on Face the Nation last Sunday: Start bombing Iran and if that take nuclear weapons, then it’s time to use them. Even though Iran has threatened nobody.
The Middle EAst is on fire because the “Uniter”, knows nothing but division and fostering hatred.
You would never make a criminal investigtator with that attitude. Nor, a soldier, the first rule is to ‘know the enemy’.
Phantom, with 66% actively _disapproving_ of his job performance, you could make the case that Bush has united Americans in their loathing of him.
That may be his lasting legacy.
And unfortunately the GOP along with him. The GOP hasn’t done much considering the candidates they have put up.
With the exception of ONE candidate, they all said that a preemptive nuclear strike is on the table against a country that has done nothing to us, but the US has meddled with their government for the past 50 years.
“Understanding criminals does not stop crime.
Understanding terrorists will not stop terrorism”
This is the dumbest thing I have read yet today.
“Atheism is responsible for far more death than religion”
Ok, now here is something dumber. Keep em comin Econ
That candidate is Dr. Ron Paul….sorry didn’t mean to steal your thunder Solly.
Well, there you go again paulie!
“Atheism is responsible for far more death than religion.”
Please prove.
And as for this?
“Stalin starved more Soviet people in the Eukrane than what were killed by Hitler.”
Well, you’d think, being such an expert you need no citations, that you might at LEAST know how to spell the place…
Does spelling that right make those dead Russians come back to life?
No worries Mike. No worries at all. Cheers all. And a good night too.
Guess the short answer to the article is, We have a President that didn’t know the difference between shit and shiite, but who thought he was going to set up a beacon of democracy in the ME, and start an Iraqi spring if you will.
“Does spelling that right make those dead Russians come back to life?”
No, and before you go on, some of those “dead Russians” were Volga German ancestors of mine. So dont bother to go there.
Spelling “that” right would at least give rossell some credibility. Instead, it is proof again that he just makes shit up. If he had researched it or cited a source, he would have at least gotten CLOSE to spelling “that”.
So once again paulie the shillie. Got any proof?
This is the dumbest thing I have read yet today.Posted by: brian | June 14, 2007 at 03:29 PM
Prove it. Provide sources for your assertions.
No, and before you go on, some of those “dead Russians” were Volga German ancestors of mine. Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | June 14, 2007 at 03:53 PM
Prove it. Provide sources for your assertions.
“Phantom, with 66% actively _disapproving_ of his job performance, you could make the case that Bush has united Americans in their loathing of him.Posted by: Tom | June 14, 2007 at 03:19 PM
Prove it. Provide sources for your assertions.
Ahhhhhhhhhhh…
This is much easier to do it the Lib way. Just keep writing prove it over and over again.
Yes! Proof on OPINION topics!Yay! That’s the ticket.
Republikkkan is back……everybody say…..walk on by.
Republican, If you read newspapers worldwide you’d see that 66% is right on the money, but you have no interest in the truth, just defending the indefensible.
So what source do you want for dumbest post of the day? Heheheheh. It was an opinion and repuke wants a source?
Oh, and there is a book called “Shukar Balan: The White Lamb”, by Mela Meisner Lindsay. It’s about the Germans from Russian and the starvation under Stalin. You will find my family in that book.
I could give you reference to everything I have read today so you could share the perspective upon which I based my opinion of the dumbness of the referenced post.
If you would like that, Republican.
Why is the Middle East on fire? Well, the Turks laid down the charcoal, the Russians brought the gasoline, the Israelis provided matches, Saddam had plenty of hamburger, and we sent the buns. The Iranians may have contributed some condiments and chips, and the Chinese will have one hell of a dinner.
If the Jews were not in the Middle East gasoline would be a buck a gallon and there would be no war.
And the 1.7 TRILLION DOLLARS those JEWS have sucked out of our US Treasury since 1973 would still be there. That a fact Jack… Check out your proof if you’re not too lazy…
The original planning to attack Iraq was smirkingly referred to in the West Wing as “Operation Iraqi Liberation.” OIL
Imagine how the past four and a half years might be different if Shrub had committed $2 Billion a week toward reducing America’s dependence on oil. More efficient automobiles, alternative fuels, expanded mass transit, less greenhouse gasses polution… we’d be half-a-trillion-dollars closer to solving a lot of problems and 3,500 Americans would still be alive.
Because removing oil from the Middle East equation effectively will neutralize that region’s power over the rest of the world. My grandchildren (or theirs) will look back on 2007 and shake their heads in wonder how we squandered a perfectly useful natural resource for platics- and other petrochemical process by simply burning it up!
Burning oil is 20th Century technology, just as burning buffalo chips was 19th Century technology in Kansas. It was fine for a while, but it’s time to get over it.
Without petrolum billions, Arab nations wouldn’t have the funds to fignt Jews with anything more than horses and swords, as they’ve done since Abraham sired a bastard son.
The United States cannot solve the problem because the United States IS the problem- or much of it. The Middle East has always been a land of warring nutcases and by trying to “fix” it, we only make matters worse for them and for us. If it were up to me we would get the hell out and let them fight it out with each other but unfortunately we need the oil.
Farmgirl
Try this:http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/stalin.html
Also, the Moletov/Ribentrop treaty was a treaty between Hitler and Stalin, dividing Poland between them.The Soviets only got mad at Hitler when Hitler went after ALL of Poland.
So, the USSR was HUGELY responsible for WW2, not really the “heroes” of WW2 that liberals make them out to be!
(And, to the point, Hitler was a PAGAN and Stalin was an ATHEIST!)
FarmgirlI believe I spelled EUKRANE the way many Eukranians spell the name of their homeland.
If I made a mistake, I apoligize, but if you type MY spelling into your browser, you get plenty of hits.
Slavic/Eastern European/Russian language names and countries and places often have more than one spelling
Hitler, Himmler, and most of the SS were devout Catholics, and they had Jesuit advisors. The Nazis were very friendly and sugned a Concordat with the Vatican.
Stalin was trained as an Orthodox priest in a Georgian seminary. The vast majority of other bloodthirsty bolsheviks, like Trotsky, were talmudic Jews!
I see a lot of irony in this. Conservatives insisted that invading Iraq was the right thing to do. Most of the world disagreed. Now they ask, why is the mideast on fire?
Jesus. Where to start.
From:Posted by: Econ101 | June 14, 2007 at 01:32 PM
“Stalin starved more Soviet people in the Eukrane than what were killed by Hitler.”
LOL. I sure hope for your policyholders’ sake that you use a calculator, because your math skills suck.
From your own source:Adolf HitlerKill tally: Directly responsible for the deaths of over 60 million worldwide as a result of the Second World War.
Joseph StalinKill tally: Approximately 20 million, including up to 14.5 million needlessly starved to death.
“The Nazis were more of a pagan cult than anything else.”
From wikipedia.com”…Hitler’s religious beliefs present a discrepant picture; publicly he often spoke positively of the Christian heritage of German culture and of belief in Christ. Hitler’s private statements, as reported by his intimates, are more mixed, showing Hitler as a religious man but also critical of Christianity.[67] However, in contrast to other Nazi leaders, Hitler did not adhere to esoteric ideas, occultism, or neo-paganism,[67] and ridiculed such beliefs in his book Mein Kampf.[68] Rather, Hitler advocated a “Positive Christianity”,[69] a belief system purged from what he objected to in traditional Christianity, and which reinvented Jesus as a fighter against the Jews.”
“Your history is flawed.”
Now THAT’S chutzpah!!!
LOL
Greatest genocide on history was based on religion. The Mogul’s muslim hordes killed as many as 110 million hindu and sikh on the sub continent!
If you want to make someone do something senseless, you only have to convince them that God wants it.
300,000 Chinese were killed during the Cultural Revolution.
Religion had nothing to do with it . . . unless you count Mao-dolitry a religion.
Mao-dolitry IS a religion, a bit more cultish. But so is “W is God” sentiment among the fundies! And the track record in Iraq is going nicely, 100K and counting?
Isn’t bush-doltry a religion? Or, is it considered a cult?
Why is the Middle East on fire? Because Bush and the neo-cons are arsonist!
slaughterYour point is pointless!
Martin Luther was a Catholic Priest but he STARTED the “Protestant Reformation.”
Hitler was, in now way, a Catholic during his time in power. Who was Hitler’s Priest? What Parish did Hitler belong to?You are spouting anti Catholic garbage!None of the Nuremburg War Crimes prisoners asked for a Priest or tried to attend religious serviced did they? I honestly don’t know the answer to that question, but it would be interesting to study that issue, would it not? I am certain that the Christian-bashing press would love to show us pictures of a Nazi war criminal taking communion, if they had such a picture.My guess is that no such pictures exist because nothing even remotely like that ever happened!
pendantI said, clearly, that Stalin killed more Soviets than the total Soviets killed by Hitler.
Also, the POINT is that Hitler and Stalin were NOT Christians!
Hitler was a Pagan and Stalin was an Atheist.
slaughter
Trotsky was killed by the Atheist Stalin in a purge.
The Vatican is in Italy. Italy was an Axis Power.
The Vatican secretly hid thousands of Jews in Europe and helped countless Jews excape the ovens.
I do not agree with all the statements of this group, but I do believe that their history on Hitler is correct:http://www.adherents.com/people/ph/Adolf_Hitler.html
Adolf Hitler “One is either Christian or German, you can’t be both.”
“A couple of years ago Mandel read through 148 bound volumes of papers gathered by the American OSS (the World War II-era predecessor of the CIA) to build the case against Nazi leaders on trial at Nuremberg. Now she and some fellow students are publishing what they found in the journal Law and Religion (www.lawandreligion.com)… The upshot: a ton of evidence that Hitler sought to wipe out Christianity just as surely as he sought to wipe out the Jews.
The first installment (the papers are being published in stages) includes a 108-page OSS outline, “The Persecution of the Christian Churches.” …how the Nazis – faced with a country where the overwhelming majority considered themselves Christians – built their power while plotting to undermine and eradicate the churches, and the people’s faith… From the start of the Nazi movement, “the destruction of Christianity was explicitly recognized as a purpose of the National Socialist movement,” said Baldur von Scvhirach, leader of the group that would come to be known as Hitler youth. But “explicitly” only within party ranks: as the OSS stated, “considerations of expedience made it impossible” for the movement to make this public until it consolidated power… By 1937, Pope Pius XI denounced the Nazis for waging “a war of extermination” against the church… Catholic priests found police snatching sermons out of their hands, often in mid-reading
…the notion that the church either gave birth to Hitler or walked hand-in-hand with him as a partner is, simply, slander. Hitler himself knew better. “One is either a Christian or a German,” he said. “You can’t be both.”
Pall,It’s been fairly well documented that the Vatican ratlines aided in the escape from Germany and provision of false papers and funds to Nazi war criminals following WWII. Ratzinger was involved in that.
Holocaust?????????
Ed is an interesting dude.
JedThe Catholic Church does much to displease me, but they have been fairly consistent in the last 2 Centuries: The Church ALWAYS opposes the death penalty.Also, the Pope had favors to repay.Many Nazi’s were bribed into helping to hide Jews and Cristians that would have otherwise died.I am guessing that the promise, to various Nazi’s went something like this: “Help the Chuch get these Priests and Rabbi’s and Jews out of Europe and safe from the Ovens, and we will guarantee your safety when the Third Reich falls!”
I said, clearly, that Stalin killed more Soviets than the total Soviets killed by Hitler.Posted by: Econ101 | June 15, 2007 at 02:51 PM
“Stalin starved more Soviet people in the Eukrane than what were killed by Hitler.”Posted by: Econ101 | June 14, 2007 at 01:32 PM
Stalin “starved” 14.5 million people, according to your own damn source. Hitler killed something north of 30 million Russians.
Damn, now I’m hopin’ yer secretary has a back-up calculator or yer policyholders are so screwed.
Also, the POINT is that Hitler and Stalin were NOT Christians! Hitler was a Pagan…Posted by: Econ101 | June 15, 2007 at 02:51 PM
Hitler was a Christian. Your revisionist history is just wrong, although I’m sure it’s extremely convenient for your conscience.
Dude, your research “skills” are as bad as your math skills.
PedantRather weak post, once again.
How many Ukranians/Eukranians did Hitler kill?
I said that Stalin killed more in the Ukrane/Eukrane than Hitler killed in the same place.
“Russians” include many Slavs, many Turks, many Asians and other nationalities. Here are some maps for your remedial education:
http://www.omnimap.com/catalog/int/russia.htm
Hitler was NOT a Christian.
You are a bigot for making such a claim.
Hitler was NOT a Christian, even some honest Atheists have some trouble claiming that Hitler was Christian:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhitlerchristian.html
By the way, when historical figures try to “make peace” with evil, in this case, Hitler, you lefties think that they should all of committed suicide.
What would have happened to any Priest or Minister who had called Hitler a murderer or a thug?
So, Bush can not call Iraq, Iran or North Korea part of an “Axis of Evil” because that would be “inflamatory.”
However, those actually living under a murderous thug must speak the bold truth, risk death, and not be able to protect anyone due to their open hostility to the regime?
According that article Econ, Hitler’s hatred of Christians is identical to Pedants and the other Lefties on this blog.
So can we call the Leftist Liberals Hitlerites now? :)
Pedant, this BOOK was written by a Jewish Rabbi: The Myth of Hitler’s Pope:
http://www.cdlmn.org/CDL/?p=49
The book documents the work of the Pope to save lives and resist Hitler.
Read this, you ASS:
“As early as 1940, Albert Einstein, himself a Jewish refugee from Nazi Germany, paid tribute to the moral “courage” of Pope Pius XII and the Catholic Church in opposing “the Hitlerian onslaught” on liberty. Einstein said:
“Being a lover of freedom, when the Nazi revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but, no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers, whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities were silenced in a few short weeks. Only the Catholic Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler’s campaign for suppressing the truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised, I now praise unreservedly.”
You are a revisionist, econ. Hitler followed in the same vein as a long line of Catholic Popes and Kings.
“The descendants of those who hated Jesus, who condemned him to death, who crucified him and immediately persecuted his disciples, are guilty of greater excesses than those of their forefathers. Greed is growing. The Jews who led Europe and the entire world to disaster — morally, culturally and economically — developed an appetite which nothing less than the world as a whole could satisfy … Satan helped them to invent Socialism and Communism. Love has its limits. The movement for freeing the world from Jews is a movement for the renaissance of human dignity. The all-wise and Almighty God is behind this movement.”"Why Are THE JEWS BEING PERSECUTED?”, Fr. Franjo Kralik, published in “Katolicki Tjednik”, Archdiocesan Paper of “Catholic Action” in the Archdiocese of Sarajevo, Imprimatur Archbishop Ivan Saric 1941
“All the world suffers from the usury of the Jews, their monopolies and deceit. They have brought many unfortunate people into a state of poverty, especially the farmers, working class people and the very poor. Then as now Jews have to be reminded intermittently anew that they were enjoying rights in any country since they left Palestine and the Arabian desert, and subsequently their ethical and moral doctrines as well as their deeds rightly deserve to be exposed to criticism in whatever country they happen to live.”POPE CLEMENT VIII
“Jewish usurers bleed the poor to death and grow fat on their substance, and I who live on alms, who feed on the bread of the poor, shall I then be mute before outraged charity? Dogs bark to protect those who feed them, and I, who am feed by the poor, shall I see them robbed of what belongs to them and keep silent?”BERNARDINO OF FELTRO. 15th century Italian priest.
“The Jews should not be allowed to keep what they have obtained from others by usury; it were best that they were compelled to worked so that they could earn their living instead of doing nothing but becoming avaricious.”AQUINAS, THOMAS, Saint. 13th century scholastic philosopher
“The Jews are enemies of God and foes of our holy religion.” ~ St. Padre Pio
I could go on, but the point is clear.
Econ, the folowing is the decree of Alhambra, issued by the very Catholic King and Queen of spain in 1492. It was issued at the behest of the Holy Father and is very similar to the anti-Jewish edicts issued by the Germans before and during the war!
The Alhambra Decree ( Followed by Isaac Abrabanel’s Answer)Source: Courtesy of Ovid Jacob; http://www.cyborganic.co
This is the decree of expulsion promulgated by Queen Isabella and Kind Ferdinand of Spain in 1492, which forced the Spanish Jews, the Sephardim, to leave Spain for ever.
King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella, by the grace of God, King and Queen of Castile, Leon, Aragon and other dominions of the crown – to the prince Juan, to dukes, marquees, counts, the holy orders, priors, knight commanders, lords of the castles, cavaliers, and to all Jews, men and women of whatever age, and to anyone else this letter may concern – health and grace unto you.
You well know that in our dominion, there are certain bad Christians that judaised and committed apostasy against our Holy Catholic faith, much of it the cause of communications between Jews and Christians. Therefore, in the year 1480, we ordered that the Jews be separated from the cities and towns of our domains and that they be given separate quarters, hoping that by such separation the situation would be remedied. And we ordered that and an Inquisition be established in such domains; and in twelve years it has functioned, the Inquisition has found many guilty persons.
Furthermore, we are informed by the Inquisition and others that the great harm done to the Christians persists, and it continues because of the conversations and communications that they have with the Jews, such Jews trying by whatever manner to subvert our holy Catholic faith and trying to draw faithful Christians away from their beliefs.
These Jews instruct these Christians in the ceremonies and observances of their Law, circumcising their children, and giving them books with which to pray, and declaring unto them the days of fasting, and meeting with them to teach them the histories of their Law, notifying them when to expect Passover and how to observe it, giving them the unleavened bread and ceremonially prepared meats, and instructing them in things from which they should abstain, both with regard to food items and other things requiring observances of their Law of Moses, making them understand that there is no other law or truth besides it. All of which then is clear that, on the basis of confessions from such Jews as well as those perverted by them, that it has resulted in great damage and detriment of our holy Catholic faith.
And because we knew that the true remedy of such damages and difficulties lay in the severing of all communications between the said Jews with the Christians and in sending them forth from all our reigns, we sought to content ourselves with ordering the said Jews from all the cities and villages and places of Andalusia where it appeared that they had done major damage, believing that this would suffice so that those from other cities and villages and places in our reigns and holdings would cease to commit the aforesaid. And because we have been informed that neither this, nor the justices done for some of the said Jews found very culpable in the said crimes and transgressions against our holy Catholic faith, has been a complete remedy to obviate and to correct such opprobrium and offense to the Christian faith and religion; because every day it appears that the said Jews increase in continuing their evil and harmful purposes wherever they reside and converse; and because there is no place left whereby to more offend our holy faith, as much as those which God has protected to this day as in those already affected, it is left for this Holy Mother Church to mend and reduce the matter to its previous state inasmuch as, because of our frailty of humanity, it could occur that we could succumb to the diabolical temptation that continually wars against us so easily if its principal cause were not removed, which would be to expel the said Jews from the kingdom. Because whenever a grave and detestable crime is committed by some members of a given group, it is reasonable that the group be dissolved or annihilated, the minors for the majors being punished one for the other; and that those who pervert the good and honest living on the cities and villages and who by their contagion could harm others, be expelled from the midst the people, still yet for other minor causes, that would be of harm to the Republic, and all the more so for the major of these crimes, dangerous and contagious as it is.
Therefore, with the council and advice of the eminent men and cavaliers of our reign, and of other persons of knowledge and conscience of our Supreme Council, after much deliberation, it is agreed and resolved that all Jews and Jewesses be ordered to leave our kingdoms, and that they never be allowed to return.
And we further order in this edict that all Jews and Jewesses of whatever age that reside in our domain and territories, that they leave with their sons and daughters. their servants and relatives, large and small, of whatever age, by the end of July of this year, and that they dare not return to our lands, not so much as to take a step on them not trespass upon them in any other manner whatsoever. Any Jew who does not comply with this edict and is to be found in our kingdom and domains, or who return to the kingdom in any manner, will incur punishment by death and confiscation of all their belongings.
We further order that no person in our kingdom of whatever station or noble status hide or keep or defend any Jew or Jewess, either publicly or secretly, from the end of July onwards, in their homes or elsewhere in our reign, upon punishment of loss of their belongings, vassals, fortresses, and hereditary privileges.
So that the said Jews may dispose of their household and belongings in the given time period, for the present we provide our assurance of royal protection and security so that , until the end of the month of July, they may sell and exchange their belongings and furniture and other items, and to dispose of them freely as they wish; and that during said time, no one is to do them harm or injury or injustice to their persons or to their goods, which is contrary to justice, and which shall incur the punishment that befalls those who violate our royal security.
Thus we grant permission to the said Jews and Jewesses to take out their goods and belongings out of our reigns, either by sea or by land, with the condition that they not take out either gold or silver or minted money or any other items prohibited by the laws of the kingdom.
Therefore, we order all councilors, justices, magistrates. cavaliers, shield-bearers, officials, good men of the city of Burgos and of other cities and villages of our reigns and dominions, and all our vassals and subjects, that they observe and comply with this letter and all that is contained in it, and that they give all the help and favor that is necessary for its execution, subject to punishment by our sovereign grace and by confiscation of all their goods and offices for our royal state house.
And so that this may come to the notice of all, and so that no one may pretend ignorance, we order that this edict be proclaimed in all the plazas and usual meeting places of any given city; and that in the major cities and villages of the diocese, that it be done by the town crier in the presence of the public scribe. and that neither one nor the other should do the contrary of what was desired, subject to the punishment by our sovereign grace and deprivation of their offices and by confiscation of their goods to whosoever does the contrary.
And we further order that evidence be provided to the court, in the manner of signed testimony, regarding the manner in which the edict is being carried out.
Given in this city of Granada on the thirty first day of March in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ -1492.Signed, I, the King, I the Queen, Juan de Coloma, Secretary of the King and Queen, which I have written by order of our Majesties.
http://home.earthlink.net/~bnahman/Alhambra_Decree_Abrabanels_Answer.htm
slaughter, I am talking about a particular Pope who served during the reign of Hitler.
Apparently, I have won this battle, as you have no negative quotes to post against him..
By the way, liberals, your very own ED, who posts frequently, has made far more hateful anti-jewish statements than any Priest or Pope or Minister.
None of you go after Ed, because Ed hates Bush, I guess!
My point is this; there were massacres of Jews for hundreds of years before Hitler was born and always at the behest of Catholic Kings, Queens and Popes. Hitler’s anti-semitism were probably, at least in part, a result of his devout Catholic faith! I am not talking of a particular Pope here.
Bottom line is this; religion is evil and all religions should be outlawed!
“Atheism is responsible for far more death than religion.”
How is a worldwide minority of 5% atheist responsible for more death than religion?
Crusades, muslim bombings, abortion clinic bomber, “For God and Country,” “God save the Queen,” the universe revolves around the Earth (try that one on for size Galieo.”
“he [Hitler] was NOT a Christian”Posted by: Econ101 | June 16, 2007 at 08:21 PMFrom your own freakin’ souce:
This quote is fromhttp://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhitlerchristian.html“…he[HItler] claimed to be a Christian.”
???
What do you Christians have to do to claim such identification????
Jesus, from YOUR OWN SOURCE: Hitler claimed to be a Christian.
Do yall do some kinda extra-claim judgment to determine the “true” Christians from the fallen?
LOL
Don’t tell me the rumors’re true, Econ! My bubbles would be so busted, dude.
My guess of Econ101’s response, based on Econ101’s previous posts:
“Hitler wasn’t a Christian because my Catholic Church has decided he wasn’t. No matter what he said. Or what he believed.”
LOL
Slaughter
Let me say this ONE MORE TIME, so your slower than average mind can pick up on it:
Hitler was NOT a practicing Catholic.
Hitler was CERTAINLY NOT a DEVOUT Catholic.
The last Pope to serve during Hitler’s life called Hitler a “false prophet”.
You lost this one.
I do not deny that there have been many bad Catholics — just like there have been bad Protestants, Jews, Hindus, Buhdists, Moslems/Muslims etc.
However, I began defending Catholics, and the Pope, on this thread, because some have claimed that Hitler was Catholic and had the support of the Vatican.
I have proven that to be a hateful, bigoted LIE.
You lost.
During WW2, every Wehrmacht belt buckle was stamped with the phrase “Gott mit uns.”
In English, “God With Us”
And again, for you that are historically challenged:
Stalin could have STOPPED Hitler, but instead, Stalin signed a TREATY with Hitler, dividing Poland.Stalin only got mad at Hitler when Hitler took ALL of Poland, instead of half, as agreed.
Stalin was an Atheist.
Hitler was a pagan. Hitler was also a con-man who said whatever it took to control the population. Hitler had every intention of destroying Christianity in all its forms.
Dont forget, Hitler befriended the Communists, then Hitler turned on them.
Hitler befriended Gay leaders, like the “Brown Shirt” SA or Storm Troopers. Hitler then turned on them, using the homosexuaul issue as a way to justify his betrayal of those who brought him to power.
If Hitler was ever on his knees, suplicant to God, taking Communion, in a Catholic Church, during his reign of terror, don’t you think SOMEBODY would have a picture or at least a verbal or written account of such an event?
Hitler was NOT Catholic.
The Pope called Hitler a “false prophet” and worked against Hitler.
And, since Hitler and Stalin were not, in any way, Christian, and WW2 was largely the fault of BOTH men, I stand by my claim:
Atheists have caused more death than Christians!
By the way, many of you lefties rightly point out that Islamic Terrorism is not universally supported by ALL of Islam.
The truth is, most Moslems do not support terrorism.
Should Hamas and Hezbolla A-Queda be able to claim that they represent the entire Moslem/Muslim faith?
Of course not.
Hitler did not PRACTICE Christianity in any shape or form. Hitler’s top leadership were openly hostile to Christianity. Hitler had plans to abolish Christianity.
Propaganda required that Hitler NOT openly oppose the Christian Faith.
Belt Buckles?? Sorry, how many rock stars and others wear a cross, for no apparent reason but fashion?
You have proven nothing.
Econ,
Hitler may have been a raving lunatic, but the fact is this: The Third Reich’s senior government officials, staff, and top generals were all undoubtedly Christians.
It’s true, Liberal Dems are Hitlerites.
So that would make Ed a Hitlerite as well. :D
So. Anybody Republican doesn’t like now is a ‘Hitlerite.’
Guess Republican’s “disability” extends further than previously thought. It appears to have caused some degeneration to his mental abilities as well.
The mid-east is a big fire sale and Haliburton is getting paid billions to to watch it burn. We now moved our corporate headquarters from the USA to Dubai. Thanks for nothing America! Keep those taxes comming we need the cash.
Answer me this, econ, if Hitler was the anti-christ that you claim then why was he NEVER excommunicated? Franco and Mussolini were also NEVER excommunicated!
Hitler was every bit the christian crusader that other catholic monarchs were throughout European history. Hitler was, in may ways a biblical literalist.
Game, Set and Match!!
What a dumbass you are, Ed. Get a life. Jews are not your problem, it is a lack of intelligence that is holding you back.
DA is back to name calling. *shock*
KSGoofNut approves of anti-Semitic comments – what a surprise that he is a bigot.
Damn, we thought that we had killed him off – but is he really Republank or one of the other trolls?
Whatever, he seems proud to be an anti-Semite.
Dumbass.
Whoa.
I always thought Ed F. had a tenuous hold on reality, but he just cast himself into the abyss.
Ed, if I ever seemed to support you in the past, that was only because I didn’t understand your irrational hatred of all things Jewish.
You are a true wack-job.
Any more hate speech like that, and we’re going to get you banned the same way we got Ian banned.
The same way you put that fella in jail for raising serious questions about your phony holocaust?
That never happened because those Jews are still there and you’ve been caught in too many lies to have any credibility on anything. All you do is lie. From so-called “terrorism” to invading Lebanon because you were attacked by Hezbollah which has nothing to do with nonexistent “terrorism”
A little word you keep misusing to get away with murder.
You’re not despised because you are Jewish but rater because you are barbarians and sadistic murderers.
Free speech is your greatest enemy and you are America’s greatest enemy and it would serve the world and all of mankind to nuke you off the face of this earth.
There is no redemption for the lot of you and your beguiled followers.
You bulldozed 418 Palestinian Villages and bulldozed 17,000 Palestinian Homes and destroyed one million Olive trees, bulldozed over by you greedy G-d Jews.
Capn
You must not know anything which the Jews do on a daily bases or you would be saying exactly what I’m saying…..the truth.
“Understanding criminals does not stop crime.
Understanding terrorists will not stop terrorism.They want us dead.Why they want us dead isn’t really that important, is it?”
That’s what the Jews stuck into his brain….A mind is a terrible thing to waste…
econ101 is been conned 101….
Hey Ed let me grab you by the nape of the neck and drag your nose through the mass graves at Dachau so you can get a snoot full of Jewish bodies from an event that never happened.
Or perhaps help you inside one of the ovens, close the door and light it up. Those ovens weren’t designed for baking bread you know.
I’ve been there and seen the facilities and spoken to some German citizens about it. They knew it was there and what was happening.
Why don’t you sit in a Palestinian house while I drive the bulldozer over your G-d Damn Jew fuc*ing ass? How would you like that you lying Jew piece of shit.
You said: ” I’ve been there and seen the facilities and spoken to some German citizens about it. They knew it was there and what was happening.”
You don’t know anything except what you’ve made-up to get the sympathy, which got you 1.6 trillion dollars of hard earned American Taxpayer money, you ungrateful twisted lying bastard.
If you ever told te truth, your face would fall off…
Now Ed, remember what the Doctor said about your blood pressure. You should really lay off the fresh camel’s milk. :D
“Jew pice of shit” is all one word…
The whole world will cheer when you get nuked HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,HA,
Ed, aren’t you late for another Messiah appearance at the Barber Shop?
Regurgitate
The Messiah appearance will happen when the Iranians drop that nuke the Russians gave them, just for you.
Yeeeee Haaaaaa
Americans should not go abroad to slay dragons they do not understand in the name of democracy.
John Adams
Capn?? Free speech is free and Ed has a point of view! Who are you to get anyone banned? I hate whiny little bitches who go on about “hate speech”.
Sgt,
Capn thinks he runs this blog. The only the thing Capn runs is that dark streak in his underwear.
slaughterFirst, anti-Catholic bigots try to claim that the Pope supported Hitler.
When letters from the Jewish Albert Einstein praise the Pope for saving lives, when Rabbis write books documenting the heroism of the Pope, Cardinals, Bishops and Priests for saving Jewish and other lives, then what do you do?
You dig back into ancient history, even to the Spanish Inquisition days?
Come on, the topic was Hitler and Nazi Germany and the fact that Atheists and the Pagan Hitler killed more people than Christians ever have.
Stalin helped start WW2, and Stalin and Mao certainly killed more people than Hitler, when added together.
However, none of the above belong in the “Christian” camp.
Every age will have its villians and its heroes.
Bigots attribute the Crucifixion of Jesus to a failure of “Jews” — ignoring that Jesus was JEWISH.
Other bigots attribute anti-Semitism to a weakness of Christianity or Catholicism —
The lesson is that we are ALL Human, and that EVERY race and nationality, in every age, is capable of great evil. Every person is capable of misrepresenting Religion for selfish ends.
Human failings dont make religion bad, anymore than human failings make sports or entertainment or anything else bad.
The Church, during the time of Hitler, was heroic and did the right thing, saving countless lives.
Excommunication? The Church has not, officially, excommunicated anybody in a long time. It happens automatically, under certain conditions, with no ceremony required.
Hey Ed, is that you in some of these pictures:
http://www.terrorismawareness.org/know-about-jihad/