Did you catch the interesting PBS "Frontline" program this week on the war strategy in Iraq? It had interviews with many of the key U.S. military strategists and generals, who shared their struggles and frustrations in trying to adapt to the changing realities in Iraq.
One irony that was pointed out was that Democrats cheered when former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld got the boot, but that his view of what should happen in Iraq — that we needed to turn over responsibility to Iraqis as quickly as possible so we could leave — was the closest to what many Democrats think. But the program made clear that Rumsfeld’s “light footprint” strategy led to the problems that the current “clear, hold and build” strategy of the surge is trying to overcome.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
146 Comments
Democrats cheered when Rumsfeld belatedly got the boot because he’s the incompetent whose disastrous impetuosity and lack of forethought guaranteed that what he supposedly wanted–”to turn over responsibility to Iraqis as quickly as possible so we could leave”–never would come to pass.
“that we needed to turn over responsibility to Iraqis as quickly as possible so we could leave — was the closest to what many Democrats think.”
Whatever! Everyone knowns that the Libs are all for surrender, so was McGovern. Keep it up, we could all be surprised.
Well, I guess that answers the question of “How stupid is fleetwood, really?”
What went wrong in Iraq is that people don’t trust our own gvernment. We are the good guys of the world, policeing the whole world. Terrorism is going to be a battle to be fought for many years, there is no pulling out of Iraq unless we want to face more terror attacks here in the U.S..
What went wrong in Iraq is that people don’t trust our own gvernment. We are the good guys of the world, policeing the whole world. Terrorism is going to be a battle to be fought for many years, there is no pulling out of Iraq unless we want to face more terror attacks here in the U.S..
The whole “Iraq Thing” was a scam right from the start and still is.
Rumsfeld knew what to say; how to blow smoke up your “vulnerabilities.”
The White House had a plan and it’s still the plan, and everything is going just the way they wanted it to go.
The smoke is what you get. It’s always what you get and is all that you’ll ever get until the J-factor is removed.
You don’t want to believe that and you’re not allowed to believe that, but I have no such obligations, so I just tell it like it is, and that will always seem strange to your ears, until you all wise-up…They’ve even got you repeating the J-refrain: “Now we can’t leave”
If it helps; think P.T. Barnum.
Well, that’s some very conventional conventional wisdom. Got anything to back it up?
Doh! As is probably obvious, my post referred to joe’s double post above. I would be hard pressed to EVER use the phrase ‘conventional wisdom’ in conjunction with Ed. That’s a compliment, by the way.
Thank You.
The Iraq War is about the oil. When that issue gets settled, and it will never be settled unless and until Bush and Cheney gets the control of the oil.
Bush had to get the stupid Christian Conservative Republicans to actually believe this is about democracy, God and the American flag. I still blame Pat Robertson for alot of this killing because he put his blessing on this Iraq War when Bush told him about his plan (this has been well documented).
And as for the US being the policemen of the world - since when it is our place to be policing anyone? We need to tend to our own backyard and stop throwing our money towards every other country on this planet. We are seen as hypocrits because we do tell others how to live and treat their people while the entire time our own people are doing without health care insurance, we have homeless people and we have more people in prison than anywhere else. So, I am not surprised we are seen as the hypocrits.
And what really gripes me is the fact we are being beat by ’street rats’ insurgents. They are blowing up our soldiers with homemade bombs. These insurgents don’t go around dressed in uniform and marching in lockstep. Hell, they don’t even have tanks and they are still beating us. When will the Bush Administration wise up and actually see what is the real mess in Iraq. Fortunately, more than 70% of the American people have wised up to the war and that is why George W. Bush is so unpopular.
What went wrong with Iraq is quite simple- we NEVER should have went there to begin with. The first President Bush listened to his advisors and he knew that such a thing would be reckless. Although Saddam was not our favourite guy the FACTS are that he was well contained and was NO threat to anybody let alone us. If there was even a whiff of suspicion about WMD, why didn’t Bush simply give that information to the UN inspectors crawling all over his country? They could have verified yeah or nay within a day. Saddam could not even fly his own plane in large parts of his country. But Saddam was able to keep order in that country and keep the oil flowing out (which is why we are really there) and, most importantly, he kept a counter balance to his arch rivals in Iran. When you invade and attempt to take over other people’s country, they tend to get pissed off and want to fight you. And I don’t blame them. If China invaded the USA and removed Bush from office and put themselves in charge, I would be an “insurgent” too. Never mind that I cannot stand Bush and would love to see him removed from office and put in jail. This is still MY country and they are outsiders. So I fully understand why the people in Iraq fight. We had no business going there.
So, Bush wants to ‘clear, hold and build’ in Iraq. LBJ tried to ‘grab their hearts and their minds will follow’ in Vietman. Hummm…….
A word to the naive and misinformed - the U.S. has been in and around Iraq since the first Gulf War with policies implemented by three different Presidents.
The Apologetic Isolationists in the Democratic Party just love to rewrite history ignoring all the actions President Clinton during his administration.
http://republikan.typepad.com/republikansan/2007/04/democratic_part.html
In that video, President Clinton says it best,(paraphrased) “Or we take some ambigious third route which gives him (Saddam) more opportunitites to develop his programs.”
People forget that Saddam Hussein was stirring the hornet’s nest in Palestine by offering encouraging monies to families of “suicide” bombers. His actions undid any diplomancy that was made in the past few decades.
People forget that he invaded Kuwait and most likely had his eyes on the oil fields of Saudi Arabia. Sure it was about oil. But if something wasn’t done to crush that evil dictator, he would have blackmailed the entire world.
During that time, our so-called allies in Germany, France, Soviet Union and other countries were supplying him with technologies to build more powerful nuclear and chemical weapons. These European and Asian Allies were also supplying him with radar and technicial support to help shoot down our aircraft.
That’s why we went alone into Iraq, we couldn’t trust our so-called allies not to put a knife in our back because of their economic greed.
All of this treachery is soon forgotten by the MSM and the “Liberal Left-rally around the burning American Flag crowd.”
This consortium of “Blame American First” has in the past few years dealt out more propaganda than the Soviet Union did during the entire Cold War. They misinform about what was said by who and when. The lie about statistics in Iraq or portray them in a manner that suits their political ideologies.
The Secular Progressive Liberal Left mantras could care less about the troops. They only care for their own selfish Political agendas. Their lip service about when troops are killed is only to make their political points.
They use the head stones of dead soldiers as soapboxes for their twisted political speeches while extorting their pseudo patriotism. In the next breath, their they point out every misdeed every soldier, marine, sailor and airman has done in Iraq and ignore the heroism and acts of good will they do.
The Liberal Left has the unique capability of tearing the fabric out of the American Society by pretending to promote their anti-war agenda, but really want seats of power in the government so they can turn the U.S. into a socialistic state of rubber stamped classless society.
They want to make you think it will be a classless society. Those seeking power will retain the power and the sheeple following them will be blind to the fact that the Liberal Left power groups only seek to build an unholy theocracy. This unholy theocracy will be based on hubris, greed and personal indulgence without the benefit of conscience.
Beware of Liberal Left, they are not thinking of what is best for America, the leaders of this party are thinking of what is best for them, while their sheeple play right into their power grab.
What went wrong? EVERYTHING!
Why? Bush refuses to listen to anyone who tells him anything he doesn’t want to hear.
The Emperor has no clothes.
Now that is the pot calling the kettle black when Republican blames our allies economic greed as the reason Bush had to go it alone into Iraq.
Is Republican really trying to imply that we Americans are not greedy? That Bush and Cheney really do not want total control of Iraq’s oil but they are willing to babysit the oil and then turn it over to the Iraqi people. Is this really what Republican wants us to believe?
This was was never about democracy, God and the American Flag. It was, is and will always be about the control of the oil. After all, we do have two oil men in the White House.
fedup: I gather that the best thing to do with Republican’s posts is to reply in the following manner:
***You are ignoring this user***
He’s clearly not interested in discussion, only spouting RW propaganda.
Gates May Seek New Iraq Plan, Tracking Clifford’s Vietnam Path
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=aZK_CQhbAwh0
Anyone remember Strategic Hamlets? Operation Phownix? Turning prisoners over to a non-signatory (Geneva) government?
I saw the movie. I didn’t like the ending. And I don’t like the sequel.
“Beware the reactionary right, they are not thinking of what is best for America, the leaders of this party are thinking of what is best for them, while their sheeple play right into their power grab.”
BAGHDAD - The U.S. military announced the deaths of 14 American troops, including five killed Thursday in a single roadside bombing that also killed four Iraqis in Baghdad.Elsewhere in Iraq, a suicide truck bomber struck the Sulaiman Bek city hall in a predominantly Sunni area in northern Iraq, killing at least 13 people and wounding 70, an Iraqi commander said.The U.S. deaths raised to at least 3,545 the number of U.S. troops who have died since the war began in 2003, according to an Associated Press count.
The deadliest attack was a roadside bomb that struck a convoy in northeastern Baghdad on Thursday, killing five U.S. soldiers, three Iraqi civilians and one Iraqi interpreter, the military said.A rocket-propelled grenade struck a vehicle in northern Baghdad about 12:30 p.m. Thursday, killing one soldier and wounding three others, another statement said.Four other U.S. soldiers were killed and one was wounded Wednesday when their convoy was struck by a roadside bomb in a western neighborhood in the capital, the military said separately.Southwest of Baghdad, two U.S. soldiers were killed and four were wounded Wednesday when explosions struck near their vehicle, according to a statement earlier in the day.Two Marines also were killed Wednesday while conducting combat operations in Anbar province, west of Baghdad, the military said.Bomber hits mayor’s office; 10 deadEarlier, a suicide truck bomber struck a mayor’s office in northern Iraq, killing at least 10 people and wounding 40, an Iraqi commander said. Meanwhile, a barrage of mortar bombs hit Baghdad’s heavily fortified Green Zone, according to Reuters reporters.The explosion in the north of the country, which occurred about 10:30 a.m. in the predominantly Sunni Arab town of Sulaiman Bek, caused part of the government building to collapse and destroyed at least four vehicles at the site, said Brig. Gen. Anwar Hamah, commander of the Iraqi army’s 2nd Brigade.Hamah said at least 10 people were killed and 40 were wounded but he expected the casualty toll to rise as people were pulled from the rubble.In Baghdad, several plumes of smoke could be seen rising near buildings housing the Iraqi parliament and government offices.On the other side of the river Tigris, a thick plume of black smoke could be seen near the area where a suicide truck bomb partly demolished a Shiite mosque and killed 87 people on Tuesday. The origin of the smoke was not immediately known.Slamming mortarsAt least seven mortar rounds could be heard slamming into the Green Zone, which houses many Iraqi government ministries as well as the U.S., British and other Western embassies.It was unclear if there were any casualties.The Green Zone, on the west side of the Tigris, is Baghdad’s most secure area but has been a frequent target for rockets and mortar bombs fired by militants. The strikes have lately become more frequent and more accurate.A mortar attack last week killed one employee of a hotel on the compound. There were also a number of casualties in April and May.
One can read the six posts following mine and it shows exactly what I wrote about. That is, the Liberal Left have nothing to submit by propaganda, lies and aversions. One poster even posted the deaths of U.S. Soliders to promote his twisted political agenda.
There was not one, let me repeat that, not one positive note towards or directed to the benefit of the sustaining of America. Not one.
It was all devisive, tearing at the fabric of our society and extremely negative. This is what the Liberal Left stand for, negativity and devisiveness.
Rumsfeld’s plan to “turn the governance of Iraq over to the Iraqi government ASAP so the US could leave” is probably true as far as it goes.
What it fails to mention is that BushCo. expected to get a right-wing kleptocracy like they are.
Instead, they got a divided Iraqi government who only are united by their desire to get the US out.
Until US installs a friendly-puppet gov’t that sells off the oil to big multinationals and takes just a small cut for themselves (none for the people, of course), we’re not going anywhere.
Saudi Arabia is the perfect model: a monarchy that literally practices slavery, but that sells out to big corporate interests like a common whore.
Perfect.
“by propaganda”=”but propaganda”
*****The following posters are currently being ignored: Republican.*****
Republican - is it a lie that Iraqiization is not working? Is it a lie that we have been there much longer then a few months? Is it a lie to say the “dead-enders in their last throes” are a Hell of a lot more than that?
The LIES, Republican, are the WMDs that have come from the White House.
WMDs - Words of Mass Disinformation
Washington Post Radio Tributes to the Fallen
Washington Post Radio airs Tributes to the Fallen every Friday, around 9:30 a.m., 12:30 p.m. and 6:30 p.m. ET.Click the links below to listen to the Tributes of Washington-area service members killed in Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom.?1st Lt. Gwilym J. NewmanTribute aired: May 28, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Pfc. Christopher E. MurphyTribute aired: May 28, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Chief Warrant Officer Dwayne L. MooreTribute aired: May 28, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Sgt. Edelman L. HernandezTribute aired: May 28, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Staff Sgt. Heathe N. CraigTribute aired: April 13, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Staff Sgt. Robert M. StanleyTribute aired: April 13, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Spec. Jonathan D. CadaveroTribute aired: April 13, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Col. Paul M. KellyTribute aired: March 30, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Command Sgt. Maj. Roger W. HallerTribute aired: March 30, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Staff Sgt. Darryl D. BookerTribute aired: March 30, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Petty Officer 3rd Class Manuel A. RuizTribute aired: February 16, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Cpl. Jennifer M. ParcellTribute aired: February 16, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Sgt. Joshua J. FrazierTribute aired: February 16, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Civilian Rick A. UlbrightTribute aired: February 2, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Lance Cpl. Eric W. HerzbergTribute aired: February 2, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Spec. Felipe J. Garcia VillarealTribute aired: February 2, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Pvt. Eric M. KavanaghTribute aired: January 26, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Staff Sgt. Leroy E. AlexanderTribute aired: January 26, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Cpl. Andy D. AndersonTribute aired: January 26, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?2nd Lt. Leonard M. CowherdTribute aired: January 12, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Sgt. Jack Bryant Jr.Tribute aired: January 12, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Spec. Armer N. BurkartTribute aired: January 12, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Pfc. Justin R. DavisTribute aired: January 5, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Maj. Joseph T. McCloudTribute aired: January 5, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Capt. Michael D. MartinoTribute aired: January 5, 2007Hear the tribute | More information?Lance Cpl. Brian A. MedinaTribute aired: December 22, 2006Hear the tribute | More information?Sgt. Alessandro CarbonaroTribute aired: December 22, 2006Hear the tribute | More information?Spec. Thomas J. BarbieriTribute aired: December 22, 2006Hear the tribute | More information?1st Lt. Alexander E. WetherbeeTribute aired: December 15, 2006Hear the tribute | More information?Sgt. Brandon S. AsburyTribute aired: December 15, 2006Hear the tribute | More information?Pvt. Michael V. BaileyTribute aired: December 15, 2006Hear the tribute | More information?Chief Joel Egan BaldwinTribute aired: December 8, 2006Hear the tribute | More information?Cpl. Binh N. LeTribute aired: December 8, 2006Hear the tribute | More information?Spec. Robert E. Drawl Jr.Tribute aired: December 8, 2006Hear the tribute | More information?Chief Warrant Officer 5 Sharon T. SwartworthTribute aired: November 17, 2006Hear the tribute | More information?Cpl. Nicholas L. ZiolkowskiTribute aired: November 17, 2006Hear the tribute | More information?Petty Officer 2nd Class Edward A. KothTribute aired: November 17, 2006Hear the tribute | More information?Pfc. Robert A. GuyTribute aired: November 10, 2006Hear the tribute | More information?Staff Sgt. Robert HernandezTribute aired: November 10, 2006Hear the tribute | More information
information
Staff Sgt. Damion G. CampbellTribute aired: November 3, 2006Hear the tribute | More information
Lance Cpl. Patrick R. AdleTribute aired: November 3, 2006Hear the tribute | More information
Airman 1st Class Leebernard E. ChavisTribute aired: November 3, 2006Hear the tribute | More information
Spec. Darryl T. DentTribute aired: October 27, 2006Hear the tribute | More information
Lt. Col. Paul W. KimbroughTribute aired: October 27, 2006Hear the tribute | More information
Lance Cpl. Gregory E. MacDonaldTribute aired: October 27, 2006Hear the tribute | More information
2nd Lt. Emily J. PerezTribute aired: October 20, 2006Hear the tribute | More information
Cpl. Matthew P. WallaceTribute aired: October 20, 2006Hear the tribute | More information
Maj. Kevin M. SheaTribute aired: October 20, 2006Hear the tribute | More information3,917Total FatalitiesOperation Iraqi Freedom: 3,515Operation Enduring Freedom: 402(Updated June 21, 2007)
Tributes to the FallenWashington Post Radio airs Tributes to the Fallen every Friday, around 9:30 a.m., 12:30 p.m. and 6:30 p.m. ET.
“knife in the back”…”stabbed in the back”…
Weren’t those the same words used by Ludendorff at the end of WWI to describe Germany’s defeat because the government’s representatives signed the treaty of Versailles…even though he admitted the defeat and told the kaiser a peace deal must be signed and that the kaiser must abdicate?
Weren’t those same words picked up by Hitler (an associate of Ludendorff’s…they both participated in the Munich beer hall putsch)?
Yup, someone here sounds a bit like a closet fascist…
Oh that’s good BFAH.
Preach to me about snide remarks and personal attacks, then you compare me to Hitler and Ludendorff.
Tell me BFAH, do you often lie about your promotion of virtue or is this a normal part of your Leftist agenda?
Knife in the back phrase has been used more than by just one person. How telling is it about you BFAH that you use such tactics in one topic and promote your fairness of speech in the next.
Democrat, Hypocrite is thy name.
Republican,
what have we accomplished in Iraq the last two years?
Republican,
If you read what I said, i said I’d refrain if you did..IMHO you didn’t come close to abiding by the proposed deal in the posts above.
BTW, I’m not a democrat …
Teddy Roosevelt founded the bull moose party…
I think you’re a member of the plain old bull party…
((__-^^-,-^^-__))`-_—’ `—_-’–|o` ‘o|–’\ ` /): :(:o_o:
((__-^^-,-^^-__))`-_—’ `—_-’–|o` ‘o|–’\ ` /): :(:o_o:
Try again..certainly not wysiwyg
You a developer BFAH?
Heh, yup, I think they do that purposely BFAH so people can’t post ASCII art.
Any spaces are ignored in the posted version, for instance.
Sol,
I work at a company that puts out process engineering software for the chemical industry. I develop models and implement them in C++ and (gasp) FORTRAN.
I’m better at the modeling than at the interface/presentation (as my bull shows)..thank goodness other people get into the GUI side of things.
Cap’n, really? Kinda makes sense, but I could swear I’ve seen some that came through properly.
((__-^^-,-^^-__)).`-_—’ `—_-’…–|o` ‘o|–’……\ ` /……): :(…..:o_o:
You have to do something like this, but even then, the WEBlog version has larger spaces between the lines so it changes the proportion.
Good luck.
BFAH, try using periods instead of spaces.
C++? Ever tried C#?
SolDevVBSolutions developer visual basic.
Nope..I have to develop in C++ and FORTRAN…everyone else does…and to be able to build across platforms, etc., everyone has to use the same tools. Those decisions aren’t mine to make.
“BTW, I’m not a democrat …”
Let me guess. You are a proud independent. You look at both sides of the issue, then vote Lib.
Visual Basic, huh?
I’m learning to HATE VB.
One of the original products was developed in the late 70s through the late 80s using fortran, MS-DOS, input files for data…you know old technology.
Well, the routines have been thoroughly tested over the years it was decided that this legacy code would remain intact. In order to make the software have the Windows “look and feel”, a separate GUI was developed for the original “engine”.
Some of this GUI was developed in VB…VB6…which is apparently not compatible with the VBs in VS 2003 or 2005.
So, I now have 3 versions of VB on my machine…and I have to use one or the other depending on circumstances because Microsoft didn’t see fit to develop a standard version of Visual basic…sheesh.
No fleettwood, I take my cue from you…wherever you are, I make sure I’m on the opposite side.
Too lazy to do your own research Sol?
Okay, here’s a starter for you, since you have bought into the Liberal Left, MSM and Ron Paul’s “Blame America First” view.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/01/20060110.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/
http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/iraq/2007/iraq-strategy011007.pdf
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=32841&432841=20070418
http://www.pentagon.mil/pubs/
Of course Sol, you and others can continue to be raise your hands in surrender and become defeatists. I choose not to do so.
What Republican is trying to say is anyone disagrees with him, they are negative traitors.
What he completly fails to understand is disagreement is what makes this country work.
Let me put it in words even he can understand:
This administration has completely failed the fighting forces of this country by putting them in harms way for no other reason than the so-called WMD.
That Saddam paid suicide bombers is a non-issue as they, the suicide bombers, would have done so anyway. Fanatics don’t do their thing for money, something else Republican can’t understand. Nor, it seems, can this adminitration seem to understand.
There are now more terrorists in Iraq then there was at the start of the war. Why do you think that is? Answer: perfect training ground.
Carter didn’t understand the problem he created by letting the Shaw (sp) of Iran into the United States, and that one thing led to the embasy take over, which in turn led to Iraq invading Iran, and our backing of Iraq.
It’s that complete lack of knowledge about the middle east and it’s religious factions, that have led to this quagmire called the Iraq war.
Liberals are not traitors for wanting this mess to stop; indeed, they are attempting to correct one of the worst mistakes this country has made in the last hundred years.
Iraq, after Kuwait, never was a problem. Just a tin-pot dictator, like all other tin-pot dictators, who ruled with am iron fist and an ego the size of Iraq. We had no business invading their country, and need to end this mess.
“…disagreement is what makes this country work.”
Now, that is just stupid. Did you get that from the Platitudes for Idiots book?
“If we can’t or won’t define the enemy, the cost to fight such a war will be endless. How many American troops are we prepared to lose? How much money are we prepared to spend? How many innocent civilians, in our nation and others, are we willing to see killed? How many American civilians will we jeopardize? How much or our civil liberties are we prepared to give up?”
Ron Paul25 Sept 2002
Repub. 70% of America feels the same way. 70%. Are you saying the Liberals took over 70% of the nation?
I am Libertarian. The current GOP has strayed so far away from conservative; I no longer want to be associated with them.
Wake up Repub.
There ya go..if fleettwood thinks it’s stupid, it must be utterly profound.
VB6 and prior SUCKS !!!
VB.Net is truly an object oriented language. I don’t get into the UI stuff either. I’d rather spend my day writing class libraries and framework.
“BTW, I’m not a democrat …”
>Let me guess. You are a proud independent. You look at both sides of the issue, then vote Lib.<
fleettwood, the proud con who only looks at one side of an issue and than votes against his best interest.
Amen to that, KSDude.
Fleettwood has richly earned the title of “Blog’s Dumbest Poster” or BDP.
And he never fails to live up to it.
“What Republican is trying to say is anyone disagrees with him, they are negative traitors.”
I never called anyone traitors.
But instead of offering a plan, the only solution the Liberal Left and the “Blame America” crowds has is to run away and hide.
They have no plan, no solution and no point of reference other than to be 100 percent negative 100 percent of the time.
If that doesn’t work just pile on with the ad hominem and the Bush jokes.
Clueless to the point of being dangerous is what the Liberal Left represent.
When you see him walking down the street
And he starts to cry, each time we meet
Walk on by DA DA DAH DAHH DAH
Walk ON by DA DA DAH DAHH DAH
“I am Libertarian. The current GOP has strayed so far away from conservative; I no longer want to be associated with them.”
Posted by: SolDevVB | June 21, 2007 at 10:38 AM
You were Republican until it was inconvenient or when the temperature got a little to hot for you.
And as the Liberal Left has done, not being wanted to be associated with people who stand by their convictions, you ran away and are hiding behind the skirt of the Libertarian Party.
Walk on by DA DA DAH DAHH DAH
Walk ON by DA DA DAH DAHH DAH
Your link does more harm than good Repub. Did you even READ it before you posted it?
Al-Qaida in Iraq has declared and shown its intentions to establish caliphate in Iraq and then to expand the caliphate widely.–Sowing sectarian violence in Iraq has been and remains the central strategy of al-Qaida in Iraq to reach the goal of creating a caliphate.
______________________________We were in Iraq before al-qaida. Go figure…
Iran has been cultivating influence in Iraq through all means atits disposal.–Iran’s threat involves both lethal action and the burrowing of Iranian actors into Iraqi institutions.
_________________________________________
Prepping for ANOTHER war?????
The situation in Baghdad has not improved despite tactical adjustments._____________________________Say it isn’t so!!!
Some wit once said that “not all CONservatives are stupid people, but all stupid people are CONservative.”
This gives them a notable voting advantage considering the number of stupid people among the voting public, don’t you think?
This is exactly what I mean Sol.
You picked and chose the negative points to emphasize your political ideologies.
Did you bother to read the stories of the men and women who served there and their impressions of Iraq?
But go ahead Sol, continue to be one of the negative crowd, evidently you like to feed on it.
There is certainly enough negativity in the MSM for you to feed upon to grow your isolationist lust.
CapnAmerica confirms once again and ad infinitum his promotion of negativity and “Blame America First” ideologies.
If there wasn’t anything negative to post, CapnAmerica just wouldn’t post.
CapnAmerica-
plenty of stupidity (in my opinion) to go around
Friday, May 04, 2007AdvertismentDemocrats in America are evenly divided on the question of whether George W. Bush knew about the 9/11 terrorist attacks in advance. Thirty-five percent (35%) of Democrats believe he did know, 39% say he did not know, and 26% are not sure.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/22_believe_bush_knew_about_9_11_attacks_in_advance
Yes Sol, buy into the Chinese owns America.
Let’s see:”Other big holders of Treasury debt include state and local governments ($467 billion); individual investors, including brokers ($423 billion); public and private pension funds (319 billion); mutual funds ($243 billion); holders of US savings bonds ($206 billion); insurance companies ($166 billion) and banks and credit unions ($117 billion.)”
China holds 350 billion of debt.
Two of our allies Japan and Great Britain hold 1 trillion of our debt. I’m sure we have much to fear from them right Sol?
And do you know why they by these bonds? Is it to own the U.S.?
Not hardly, it is because they know they will get their money back and with good interest rates in return. In other words, they have faith in U.S. Capitalism.
You Sol, have been led down the path of gross misinformation and buying into it, hook line and sinker.
But don’t believe me Sol, read from that Republican Strong Hold place of MSM (cough) to see where I got the quote.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17424874/
I think Bush knew more than he pretends to about the 9-11 attacks.
John Ashcroft was warned not to fly on commercial flights in JULY of 2001. The M1 currency tracked a surge in people pulling money out of accounts and into cash before 9-11.
I don’t think Bush “made it happen on purpose” (MIHOP) or “let it happen on purpose” (LIHOP).
But I do think he knew enough to have taken more precautions that could have protected Americans from attack, and that he’s lying about what he knew now.
This would be perfectly consistent with his “see no evil” approach to Saudi malfeseance thanks to crony connections in oil and investment that his family had for many decades.
“Yes Sol, buy into the Chinese owns America.”
Over the edge much? Show where I posted anything like that.
350 Billion to the Chinese. That is just freakin AWESOME Repub. You must be SO proud.
“Now, that is just stupid. Did you get that from the Platitudes for Idiots book?”
Actually, fleetwood, disagreement leads to discussion, which in turn leads to solutions either by compromise or decisions. That appears to be something this administration has no clue about, so, in turn, it leads to stupid remarks, like the quote above, by stupid people. Hey, sounds pretty much like the Republican party, doesn’t it!
As for Republicans failure to understand the Liberal mind when it comes to ending this war; there have been many suggestions, including some here on this blog, that are interesting. But with the minds, such as Republicans, associated with this administration, the only thing they understand is, KILL! It doesn’t seem to matter to them whether it’s an Iraqui citizen, enemy combatant, or an American soldier. Kill em all, and let God sort it out.
Questions for Republican: Who put the tin-pot dictator in power in the first place, and why are we now in that country? What do you mean when you think we should stay, and what is the end result you are looking for to end this war? Do you really think we can win this war, and exactly what does your interpretation of “winning” mean? Feel free to be specific. And use your own words for a change, not some link to some tin-hat bushitte.
350 Billion to the Chinese. That is just freakin AWESOME Repub. You must be SO proud.
Posted by: SolDevVB | June 21, 2007 at 11:12 AM
China is a trading partner and there are no restrictions on them investing into T-Bonds of the United States.
As has been pointed out, they are part of the 25 percent of the foreign investors.
But I guessing by your follow on statement, you didn’t even bother to read the article on MSNBC explaining the debt.
Go ahead Sol, been misinformed and out of touch. I sure how you don’t run your business that way.
From Repub’s link…
“That’s leaves a little over $4 trillion in public hands. The biggest chunk (about 25 percent of the $8.5 trillion total) is held by foreign governments. Japan tops the list (with $644 billion), followed by China ($350 billion), United Kingdom ($239 billion) and oil exporting countries ($100 billion).Other big holders of Treasury debt include state and local governments ($467 billion); individual investors, including brokers ($423 billion); public and private pension funds (319 billion); mutual funds ($243 billion); holders of US savings bonds ($206 billion); insurance companies ($166 billion) and banks and credit unions ($117 billion.)”********************************
And just how do you propose we pay that back while hemorrhaging cash into Iraq by the billions per year?How much more will we have to borrow to keep the flow of cash into Iraq? China and Japan don’t want to lend us much more if any. We have alienated damn near everyone else, so who do we borrow from next?
$8.5 Trillion in debt. No business could survive. You run your business like that Repub?
And just how do you propose we pay that back while hemorrhaging cash into Iraq by the billions per year?”How much more will we have to borrow to keep the flow of cash into Iraq? China and Japan don’t want to lend us much more if any. We have alienated damn near everyone else, so who do we borrow from next?”Posted by: SolDevVB | June 21, 2007 at 11:18 AM
Best-kept secret about the national debt: Nobody will ever have to pay it back.
“Believe it or not, as long as we have a viable economy, nobody will ever have to pay back the national debt: not you, not me, not our kids, not our grandkids, not our great-grandkids, not any of their progeny. Period.”http://www.optimist123.com/optimist/2007/01/bestkept_secret.html
“But I do think he knew enough to have taken more precautions that could have protected Americans from attack, and that he’s lying about what he knew now”
ted by: CapnAmerica | June 21, 2007 at 11:09 AM
It’s possible that he could have taken better precautions. I really think it was a symptom of many things, including a bureacracy that cares about turf, rather than the purpose of their jobs. The lying, I’m not sure either way
Ummm,I liked Republican’s original post. I wondered how it’s actual merit or lack of would play out on this “discussion”.I have noted that most of the reponses to him resemble attacks on his person and loyalties an beliefs. What I would like to see is somebody who disagrees with Republican, actually respond to what he said instead of drifting into their own area of strong opinion (I defend your freedom to respond as you like). Usually the responses I see are a change of subject or a logic leap I need a little help following (I’m not that smart politically or philosophically. Type slow and help me out just a little).I am sitting on the sidelines wondering if Republican is wrong, and me wrong for beleiving what he said. But nobody is actually responding to what he said. Which is why I seldom come here. Emotional responses and baiting and putting your own spin on history all have their place and this place seems to be for more of that than level or fair fact trading. We heard from you guys on that score. Now, anybody got an intelligent response to Republican’s original assertions that go beyond opinion of the president or the war (not such great things to defend at the moment so you have an opening if you will use it). Republican, would you restate one of the easier to understand positions that I can probably follow and respond to. (maybe i’ll go on the attack too if I can’t think of any other response. no promises)
I thank you all who participate in our “interesting” democracy and encourage more, no matter who or what your political tilt. (I lean right when I stand on the coast, I tend to look like I lean left when standing in KS. That’s just me)
zcat (patriotic and concerned father of 6, 3 eligible to serve)
Republican . . . still waiting . . .
Zcat,
Most of the sensible people who post on this blog ignore the poster currently using the name “Republican.” It has a nasty history of impersonating other posters, using multiple names to launch personal attacks on other posters, and has been found to be untruthful on more than one occasion.
zcvt–
RepubliCON is a proven liar, nic-switcher, and troll (that is, he posts over other people’s names).
He has completely disrupted this thread on numerous occasions.
We long-time, regular posters have no interest in engaging with him any longer based on his past behavior.
Even when he posts something interesting or provocative, we just “walk on by.”
It’s much better for all concerned that way.
Most of us agree that marginalizing Republican has improved the WEBlog more than anything else could . . .
Stumper–
Don’t try to have a conversation with it.
Just leave it alone.
Think Charles Manson in his jail cell with a computer . . .
You don’t want to go there.
Y’all sure zcat is a new poster… or just a new nic?
Exactly, Sol, exactly.
But still, it’s good to keep the information circulating for new posters.
On How Saddam Hussein came to power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein
why are we now in that country?Already explained.
What do you mean when you think we should stay, and what is the end result you are looking for to end this war?
You should look at the “Democratization of Iraq” Bill passed by President Clinton
Do you really think we can win this war, and exactly what does your interpretation of “winning” mean?
Are you really that naive about World Politics Stumper?
A commitment to a cause, such as turning Iraq into a Democracy is not about some tote board scoring device.
One needs long future vision to realize that this type of venture takes long term commitment and a steadfast partner such as the U.S. is in Iraq. That’s right, we are their partners, not their conquerors. The Iraqi people have voted in a Constitutional Government and are in the child state of the Democracy. They must first learn to walk before they can run.
Your other comments will be left to fester in their own stew of infectious agar.
zcat,
Republicans assertions are that no one on the left has put forward any solutions to the Iraq problem. In fact, they have. Read previous threads to find them.
But let me try, as a Liberal, to answer some, as I see them:
We, as a nation, are to blame for the quagmire called the Iraq war. We, as a nation, accepted what we were told was the truth about WMD, as given to us by, “intelligence”. Turns out much of it was fabricated, or blatantly wrong.
This puts the war in a whole new light. One that doesn’t shine on this administration too well. The real problem now is, how do we end it? Do we wait for the people of Iraq to take control of their own country? Are they indeed capable of doing so, considering the fundamental differences between the religious groups. Do we divide the nation into three primary countries composed of the three leading groups? What would that do to the stability of those countries, and the surrounding countries? What is meant by “winning” the war, as stated by Bush?
This war has put this country in a position that will be difficult to end for many years, and all because of faulty intelligence, lies, and an American people willing to accept that. Is there an easy answer? Not in my opinion.
“They must first learn to walk before they can run.”
Does walking include policing its own citizens?
Yes Capn, I am a liar only because your faithful lackeys say that I am.
I write things you disagree with, so you call me liar. How logical is that?
I know you read them Capn, you can’t help yourself.
But carry on as the self-appointed pseudo leader of this Blog Capn. No one with a serious bone in their body knows that your posts don’t pass the sniff test.
“why are we now in that country?Already explained.
What do you mean when you think we should stay, and what is the end result you are looking for to end this war?
You should look at the “Democratization of Iraq” Bill passed by President Clinton”
Hardly an answer to questions posed, but I could hardly expect anything else form someone who worships at the idolterous alter of this administration. You are indeed in idiot incapable of intelligent discussion. I fully understand the term, “walk on by” now.
Sol,
Whenever you want to stop playing advocate of the clueless, let me know and we can continue discussing in a logical manner.
You didn’t even bother to read any of the links did you?
Blinders are for horses Sol, to keep them on a path. You have chosen to wear blinders. Enjoy the path you have taken.
This puts the war in a whole new light. One that doesn’t shine on this administration too well. The real problem now is, how do we end it? Do we wait for the people of Iraq to take control of their own country? Are they indeed capable of doing so, considering the fundamental differences between the religious groups. Do we divide the nation into three primary countries composed of the three leading groups? What would that do to the stability of those countries, and the surrounding countries? What is meant by “winning” the war, as stated by Bush?
Posted by: stumper | June 21, 2007 at 11:42 AM
Hey stumper, not to be picky, but questions are not policy or solutions.
_______________________________
I am not a liberal, I am a republican. I am not a “cut and run” anything, but we need to reevaluate our position and our definition of victory My plan
1) Pull nearly all troops away from areas of insurgency and redeploy them to iraqi borders, keeping “other interests” out
2) continue with training and advising Iraqui troops, but leave direct combat toIraqui trooops
3) Let them fight it out, but with perhaps one caveat. Intentionally targetting civilians will not be tolerated.
pretty basic, but a start, don;t you think?
What part of Democratization of Iraq did you not understand Stumpy?
I’m sorry if that concept was too complicated for you.
Let me know if I need to break it down into simpler terms for you.
zcat,
What you seemed to miss about Republican’s original post is that HE brought in the “party affiliated personal attacks” WAY before anyone responded to him…
See Examples:
The Apologetic Isolationists in the Democratic Party
“Liberal Left-rally around the burning American Flag crowd.”
This consortium of “Blame American First” has in the past few years dealt out more propaganda than the Soviet Union did during the entire Cold War. They misinform about what was said by who and when. The lie about statistics in Iraq or portray them in a manner that suits their political ideologies
The Secular Progressive Liberal Left mantras could care less about the troops.
Beware of Liberal Left, they are not thinking of what is best for America, the leaders of this party are thinking of what is best for them, while their sheeple play right into their power grab.
IF that is not personal attacks, I don’t know what is…
Perhaps you should try re-reading his original post? He has no facts to substantiate any of his arguments other than a link to his OWN blog site… He never tries for civility but dives into name-calling in the first paragraph, immediately following that with baseless accusations that he nor anyone else can back up… and yet the “responders” are the ones that reduce it to a personal matter? I think not…
“Hey stumper, not to be picky, but questions are not policy or solutions.”Posted by: littlejohn | June 21, 2007 at 11:48 AM
Very accurate assessment lj, mind if I borrow that from time to time?
“IF that is not personal attacks…”Posted by: anon | June 21, 2007 at 11:49 AM
Those are discussions on ideologies anon.
I’m truly sorry you cannot tell the difference between discussion on ideology and personal attack.
Perhaps a course in philosophy or ethics could help you out in that regard?
Repub,I looked thru the links from this year. I posted a few of the bullet points. Didn’t even drag out the worst ones.
And this was from a propaganda piece published by the Whitehouse. Would you like me to go back and grab some of the BETTER bullet points from the propaganda piece? The propaganda piece that was meant to prop up the war?
About those blinders repub, how they workin out for you? did GW sign them too?
Exactly right, anon.
Thanks.
We know.
Boy howdy, do we know.
Sol,
What do you mean by “this?” I’m sorry but I’m not good at figuring out what ambiguous pronouns are trying to imply.
So you call your duly elected government propagandists eh Sol?
You’re starting to sound more like the Capn every day.
Uhm, “this year”. It’s 2007 Repub, forget to set your alarm clock?
If you think that this administration or any other administration does not have a propaganda machine, then the blinders work exceptionally well repub.
Hey, just unplug that alarm clock. It would be better if you just slept thru all this.
Republican, I think it is your incessant labeling of everyone and everything that puts people off.Examples: “is what the Liberal Left represent.”, “you and others can continue to be raise your hands in surrender and become defeatists”, “Democrat, Hypocrite is thy name.”, “the Liberal Left stand for, negativity and devisiveness”, etc… I could go on and on cutting and pasting these.
Your labeling and stereotyping naturally puts people on the defensive. Maybe if you try just stating your points and ideas and leaving it at that, without making some snide, blanket comment about whatever or whomever you are writing about, you would get a different response.If you wanted to actually, discuss anything on these boards, I am sure people would be glad to do so if you approached it in a more academic, less adversarial manner. I know I would enjoy debating our differing viewpoints, if that could be done civilly.
brian,
Then prove my assessments wrong instead of pulling out single comments from other posts I have made.
Or can you?
Brian–
Please.
We’ve all tried to reason with it over and over again in the past.
It didn’t work. A troll is a troll.
Walk on by.
Thank you,
The Management
Yes Bryan, listen to the Capn. He not only violates the terms of service by misrepresenting himself as “The Management.” He tries to coerce those of his “mind” when and how they should post.
So much for freedom of expression.
Back to my duties, I shall return later.
Rumsfeld: US failing in Iraq
A leaked memo shows that the former Defence Secretary thinks a major change in strategy is needed, focusing on a staged pull-out of troops
Paul Harris in New YorkSunday December 3, 2006The Observer
In a move that will send shockwaves through the White House a leaked memo from former Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, in which he admitted American failings in Iraq and called for a major change in policy, emerged yesterday.The classified memo, obtained by the New York Times, revealed that the ultra-hawkish Rumsfeld believes that US forces in Iraq are not achieving their aims. He submitted the memo to the White House just two days before he resigned his post at the Pentagon.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1962944,00.html
That was for you repub. Answering your question…
“brian,Then prove my assessments wrong instead of pulling out single comments from other posts I have made.Or can you?”
How can your post logically come in response to mine? Seriously, come on man.I am trying to give you constructive critism, and you respond with that shit???
It’s sort of amusing watching the reactionaries play the blame game with their Iraq failures. Somehow it is the fault of everyone EXCEPT the moron who created the mess! No, never could BUSH be blamed for the mess that he deliberately created. Not in Bush-land!
Repuke,
“Yes Capn, I am a liar only because your faithful lackeys say that I am.I write things you disagree with, so you call me liar.”
This blog calls Repuke a liar and a nic stealer, because he IS a liar and a nic stealer.http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/open_thread_28.html#comment-71041282
Ben,
EXACTLY. Nobody is ever allowed to state the obvious or to assignaccountability.
Republicans hate accountability like cockroaches hate light. And the fact that the entire invasion and occupation of Iraq was premised on lies and an oil grab must never, ever, EVER, be acknowledged. And those who do acknowledge it must be harrassed and intimidated, and their careers and lives destroyed.
When Democrats call Republicans “fascists,” it’s because of this sort of large-scale manipulation and use of the “Big Lie” such as we’ve seen every step of the way. Republicans are all about speaking power to truth, and the rest of us have HAD IT with you lying to our faces. Enough.
“Hey stumper, not to be picky, but questions are not policy or solutions.”
Posted by lj.
But questions need to be asked in order to find solutions. That’s about as basic as one can get. Questions lead to discussion, which lead to policy AND solutions. Without questions, and answers, you get this administration.
Questions are the start of what should be intelligent discussion. I can see by the answers (?) I got to those questions, I was asking for more than some on this blog are capable of. Ergo, no serious discussion is possible with some, including yourself and Republican. I expect Republican will explain that to you in words you will be able to understand.
Actually, “what went wrong in Iraq” was predicted earlier, in 1999.
‘Post-Saddam Iraq: The War Game”Desert Crossing” 1999 Assumed 400,000 Troops and Still a Mess’http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB207/index.htm
Stumper-
Your fight is not with me. First of all, I have had ePLENTY of serious discussions on this board, including with many of those I disagree with 9with is about 2/3 of the long time posters here. (long time being longer than me!)Second, I don;t subscribe to Republicans brand of bs or way of argumentation, so you are either showing you newness, or your ignorance, I personally don;t know which. You are the one that made statements about solutions,then asked questions. By the way, they were not bad questions. If you have read this blog at all, then yo would know that I am for ending this fiasco, that I am for pulling out of or at least to the border of Iraq and letting themfigure it out. Either get a clue or whistle in the dark and be dumb. In other words, wake up. Even you can understand that.
cosmos,
I see your reference, and I raise you: in pre-war simulations of the invasion and its aftermath, the commander of Iraqi forces (Red Team), Lt.Gen. Paul Van Riper (USMC-Rt.) devised a strategy that defeated Blue Team (U.S. forces) on the FIRST DAY of the conflict. Top brass called off the games and started over, and Van Riper resigned four days later because of the artificial constraints imposed on the game.
http://mcgeek.com/news/geekus/229
Cosmos- I’ve heard of this study , and after reading it, have to wonder if a modicum of “common sense” was used in the run up to the invasion, how much death and misery might have been avoided.
The Bush administration reminds me of the classic male lost driver stereotype that drives forever, won’t seek directions, runs out of gas and then complains !
Um, NO, republican, labels such as those you choose to apply to a statment are NOT ideologies - they are LABELS, deragatory ones at that - again, I maintain that YOU are the one who started the personal attacks by painting with a broad brush everyone who may disagree with you with a deragatory label and then refuse to listen to any adult discourse they may try to offer…
And for the record, republican, why shoud any of us (note, NOT democrats, just any of us who happen to disagree with this war) have to provide a method to get ourselves out of this mess - when YOUR president has provided a method either? And for the record “stay the course” is not a method… it is a refusal to admit to the mistakes and attempt to rectify the situation by beginning a phased troop withdrawal, which is what we really need… I mean come on, it doesn’t take a genius to see that the more troops we have over there, the more violence, ergo, fewer troops equals less violence… Begin the phaseback now - and I am not saying take them all out at once because that would completely collapse EVERYTHING - but begin the freaking phaseback!!!!!! Our soldiers are dying needlessly so that Bush can fight his Daddy’s war and Cheney can make some money…. These men and women deserve our support of their LIVES not just their mission…
oops that should read “When your president has NOT provided a method either?”
peeking in…for a short bit…
hmmm, well I see no solutions offered other than just pulling out and raising our hands in surrender.
back to business…
(notes that the new Democratic Party method for greeting someone is raising both hands in the air and saying “surrender!”
Repub,
In case you missed it the first time around, here is is again.
Rumsfeld: US failing in Iraq
A leaked memo shows that the former Defence Secretary thinks a major change in strategy is needed, focusing on a staged pull-out of troops
Paul Harris in New YorkSunday December 3, 2006The Observer
In a move that will send shockwaves through the White House a leaked memo from former Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, in which he admitted American failings in Iraq and called for a major change in policy, emerged yesterday.The classified memo, obtained by the New York Times, revealed that the ultra-hawkish Rumsfeld believes that US forces in Iraq are not achieving their aims. He submitted the memo to the White House just two days before he resigned his post at the Pentagon.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1962944,00.html
Republican, see you back here after Springer is over
Yes Sol, I saw it.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe Rumsfeld was fired, albeit in a polite manner.
I very seldom watch TV brian. I watched about 20 seconds of Springer a few years ago and made the decision that it was a bunch of “staged” hooey not worth watching.
And what was that before about you and I discussing the issues?
(drops pin)
Republican, I found the pin you dropped.What I said about discussing issues was: “I know I would enjoy debating our differing viewpoints, if that could be done civilly.”
That is an impossibility for Republank, Brian, so don’t wait for an answer. As soon as you say anything that is to the left of George W Bush, he’ll start with the labels and insults.
My advise, just walk on by……….
Besides, he is likely to steal your nic and post nonsense over your name.
So was every other person that didn’t say ‘Throw more troops into the grinder’
Big shock there Repub. GREAT point !!!
What went wrong in Iraq:1. We made a bad military decision and underestimated the enemy.2. No clear measure of what success in Iraq would be due to no uniform, clear goal3. Poor understanding of the history, culture and politics within Iraq led us to misjudge what it would take to ‘Democratize Iraq’ (assuming that was the goal)
Sol, Rumsfeld is no longer in the mix and he apparently was fired for being wrong.
What’s your point? That mistakes were made? Or exactly what is your point?
“What went wrong in Iraq:1. We made a bad military decision and underestimated the enemy.”
The prosecution of the War into Iraq went very well. Not sure I like compound questions, where one part can be true and one part false. What enemy did we underestimate?
“2. No clear measure of what success in Iraq would be due to no uniform, clear goal”
The goal was always and still is the Democratization of Iraq as originally outlined by President Clinton’s bill that he signed into law.
“3. Poor understanding of the history, culture and politics within Iraq led us to misjudge what it would take to ‘Democratize Iraq’ (assuming that was the goal)”
The Iraqi Citizens appear to have caught on fairly quickly. Remember the purple fingers? You may be correct about what it takes to become a Democracy. But didn’t the United States Struggle with that from 1775 until 1789?
Posted by: brian | June 21, 2007 at 02:55 PM
How many people were fired? And Rummy stepped down. As did a lot of other people who saw this shambles for what it was.
Oh oh oh wait. I get it. It was Rummy’s fault the war was a failure. And all those commanders too. Well damn Repub, how many people do you have to fire before you start to realize it isn’t OTHER PEOPLE who made the mistakes?
I don’t recall if you told me that you have served in the military Sol, but let me relate a story to you about a whole line and staff of incompetence.
There were some Operational Readiness Inspections (military exercises) that had been conducted and they were failed twice.
On the third attempt failure reared its ugly head and a whole lot of Commanders got fired on the spot. You know, pack your bags, we’ll send your stuff to you later type of firings.
When the new CINC (Comander in Chief of the Command) came in, he fired more people including 1 and 2 star Generals.
There are times when people of rank and position are just taking up space and can’t do the job. This appears to be what happened in Iraq in the early going. It was a lot of bad advice being passed around, because of some incompetent line and staff Generals on down.
It happens and will probably happen again.
If you ever watched the movie Patton, you will notice that he fired a full Colonel on the spot (don’t know if it’s true or not) but it illustrates the point, that if the job isn’t being done, you’re history.
So yes Sol, I was on a base when about twenty housing quarters went empty one night, when a whole lot of officers got fired. There were more firings afterwards as I pointed out.
NO ONE in the Bush Administration said BEFORE the war, that we would be in Iraq, in combat situations, four years after MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Now, Patreaus is saying that it may well be ten MORE years.
Bush would have never received authorization to invade Iraq had these facts been on the table in 2003.
Hussein was a two-bit tin pot dictator that was no threat to the United States or his neighbors. The rationale for war was WMD. There were none.
All of the talk of Clinton’s desire for regime change was during a period when Saddam refused UN inspections. In the absence of inspections, it was logical to conclude that Hussein had resumed his WMD program.
The inspectors returned to Iraq in late 2002 and left only after Bush announced an imminent invasion. Had they continued their work, they would have proven what we know now - Saddam was a paper tiger.
The War on Iraq was sold on the basis of the threat to America and Iraq’s WMD, and allegations of connections to al Qaeda.
There was no threat.
There was no WMD.
There was no connection to al Qaeda.
Bush had all this information prior to the invasion and he continued with his plans despite the evidence.
Had the UN inspector stayed in country for another month, Saddam would have been exposed for the fraudulent military power that he claimed to be.
And 3545 American soldiers would still be alive.
lj,Sorry about that. I got so used to trying to wade through Republican’s bs, I got turned around a bit. I’ve gone back and read some of your posts, and agree with you on many points.
My reason for the questions was to attempt to pull out of Republican some serious answers to questions that have really not been answered by him. A waste of time, what?
“The prosecution of the War into Iraq went very well. Not sure I like compound questions, where one part can be true and one part false. What enemy did we underestimate?”We underestimated both the capabilites and tenacity of what are now being called insurgents.I do not understand your statement about ‘prosecution of the War’ and ‘compound questions’. Can you elaborate?
“The goal was always and still is the Democratization of Iraq as originally outlined by President Clinton’s bill that he signed into law.” OK, fair enough
3. My reference to poor understanding, etc. was with regard to America’s. We thought we could run in and make Iraq a democracy in no time, without realistically considering the sharp divides in Iraqi culture and the effect that would have.
brian,
it really isn’t worth your effort. no matter what you say or how much sense you make, if republican doesn’t like the answer (if it doesn’t fit in with typical “pro-Bush” mentality) he will make whatever base attempt he can to cloud the issue so that the real meaning of your answer gets torn apart and noone can make heads or tails of it, thereby allowing him to declare himself “right” and you “wrong” among a host of other things…
i think the other posters on here may have the right idea….
stumper,
You may be right, a waste of time, but still worth a try. Sometimes he does answer appropriately
. My reference to poor understanding, etc. was with regard to America’s. We thought we could run in and make Iraq a democracy in no time, without realistically considering the sharp divides in Iraqi culture and the effect that would have.
Posted by: brian | June 21, 2007 at 03:31 PM
Well, actually no…I’ll search the SOU addresses and show where Bush stated that it would be a long process.
Week Ending Friday, February 1, 2002 SOU:”Our war on terror is well begun, but it is only begun. This campaign may not be finished on our watch; yet, it must be and it will be waged on our watch. We can’t stop short. If we stop now, leaving terror camps intact and terrorist states unchecked, our sense of security would befalse and temporary. History has called America and our allies toaction, and it is both our responsibility and our privilege to fight freedom’s fight”
Week Ending Friday, January 31, 2003 Address Before a Joint Session of the Congress on the State of the Union
January 28, 2003″Our war against terror is a contest of will in which perseverance is power. In the ruins of two towers, at the western wall of the Pentagon,on a field in Pennsylvania, this Nation made a pledge, and we renew that pledge tonight: Whatever the duration of this struggle and whatever the difficulties, we will not permit the triumph of violence in the affairs of men; free people will set the course of history.”
Week Ending Friday, January 23, 2004 Address Before a Joint Session of the Congress on the State of the Union
January 20, 2004
“America is a nation with a mission, and that mission comes from our most basic beliefs. We have no desire to dominate, no ambitions of empire. Our aim is a democratic peace, a peace founded upon the dignity and rights of every man and woman. America acts in this cause with friends and allies at our side, yet we understand our special calling:This great Republic will lead the cause of freedom.”
Week Ending Friday, February 4, 2005 Address Before a Joint Session of the Congress on the State of the Union
February 2, 2005″Recently an Iraqi interpreter said to a reporter, “Tell America notto abandon us.” He and all Iraqis can be certain: While our militarystrategy is adapting to circumstances, our commitment remains firm and unchanging. We are standing for the freedom of our Iraqi friends, and freedom in Iraq will make America safer for generations to come. We willnot set an artificial timetable for leaving Iraq, because that would embolden the terrorists and make them believe they can wait us out. We are in Iraq to achieve a result, a country that is democratic, representative of all its people, at peace with its neighbors, and able to defend itself. And when that result is achieved, our men and womenserving in Iraq will return home with the honor they have earned.”
I can post 2006 and 2007 if you wish, but I think you get the picture of what was said and promised.
“Our war on terror is well begun, but it is only begun.”
Sadda