Clarence Page wrote a column in Friday’s Eagle applauding Michael Moore’s “Sicko” movie, which is now in theaters. “Moore offers a glimpse of something that most Americans never see: how easily anyone — including visitors — can access good public health care in Canada and Europe, and how satisfied those country’s citizens are with their systems.” Critics are responding by pointing out problems with those health systems. “But they don’t like to talk about the long lines, waiting lists, rising costs or rationed care that Americans face in our existing system,” Page said.
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430 Comments
I so agree. Cons and talk radio right wingers that have no family in Canada and have never sit foot there love to trash Health Canada. My wife is from Canada, we were married in Canada and I am one of the rare Americans who has been in the Canadian health system. While we were in Toronto a few years ago, I delveloped a severe ear infection. It was painful and I had stuff leaking out of my ear and I told my wife that we were going to have to drive back to Niagra Falls New York so I could go the E.R. and get it fixed. And it was on a Saturday which made it worse. She suggested we go to a Health Canada Urgent Clinc instead and that they would see me even though I was not a Canadian. We went and I filled out ONE page and we waited only about 20 minutes and the doctor (think he was from India) invited us in. He checked me out, quickly made a diagnosis and cleaned out the ear which brought some relief. He then wrote me a prescription for ear drops and oral medication and sent me on my way happy. Total cost was around $66 US. $50 for the doctor visit (free to Canadians) and the prescriptions were $16 US for both. Without insurance in the USA, the cost would have been at least 3 times that much and even with my insurance my doctor co pay is $35. And I suspect the drugs probably would have cost twice as much because typically they do. so YES I do support a similar program here with some minor differences.
Last winter I had opportunity to see up close and personal what happens to poor people without insurance in our American health care system. It wasn’t pretty. It seems a shame that the most powerful country on the planet can’t provide good healthcare to all of it’s citizens.
The current employer-provided healthcare system is an anomaly that came about after WWII. America is about the only advanced nation that does it this way. The cost of health care to the American employer is part of the reason we can’t compete in the global marketplace. IIRC, health care costs add over $1500 to the price of GM cars and trucks.
Conservatives love to tell stores (mostly unfounded) about waiting 6 months for hip replacement surgery in Canada, etc. But we have our own horror stories right here in America. In L.A. just recently, a woman vomited blood for 45 minutes on the emergency room floor and died without receiving treatment. Now that’s the kind of health care we think is so great?
I hope and pray that I see single provider health care in my lifetime in this country; that 45 million Americans have to do without health insurance is a national disgrace.
Think our health care system is so great? World wide, we rank 38th, just ahead of Slovenia for crissake!http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
And we spend twice as much. IMHO, it’s time for a change. Let’s do something that helps people instead of the insurance industry and big pharma.
It’s past time for universal health care for America.
“It seems a shame that the most powerful country on the planet can’t provide good healthcare to all of it’s citizens.”
Right On, XXXIt is also a shame that the most powerful country on the planet have some of the richest citizens, the most predatory business citizens and politicians in the world.That is how things got to be where they are, supported by the poor and put up on a pedestal by Cronyism.
Wiseman,Back in the day, it was called “GRAFT”. Now it’s campaign contributions and lobbying. Sad commentary on American politicians….they’re ALL for sale to the highest bidder.
Funny that so far no one has mentioned John Edwards as being part of this problem.
Kev: Hey Doctor, my ear hurts.
Doctor:(thinking) Well lets see, it could be just an infection, it could be sinus, it could be allergic, it could be a brain tumor, it could be…
Doctor: Well Kev, it looks like an ear infection to me, here’s your prescription for ear drops.Cost: 65.00
Kev: Thanks Doc, I’m sure this will take care of the problem, but if it don’t, I’d like to introduce you to my lawyer, John Edwards.
Doctor: Well, on second thought Kev maybe we should run a battery of tests to rule out everything else in the universe, I’ll get the nurse and get the tests started.Cost 3600.00
This is just a little story, but I’m sure this has NEVER happened…
Also, I seem to have missed all the stories of the mass graves found outside American hospitals…
Also, I seem to have missed all the stories of the mass graves found outside American hospitals…Posted by: Gene Raston | June 30, 2007 at 08:23 AM
You’re looking in the wrong graveyard. Check out the graveyards of personal finance, a.k.a. Chapter 11/13 bankruptcies for the past couple decades. Note the trends.
Amreican hospitals create American bankruptcies, not graves.
So you want to account for all the bankruptcies on healthcare?
As a cancer survivor, I’m so grateful that we had adequate insurance when I was diagnosed…even then I had to fight United Health Care for almost every treatment I received. They played all sorts of games (you wouldn’t believe how many times they “lost” my records) and tried to fight my reconstuction surgery. Dealing with the insurance company was the most stressful thing about having cancer, which is pretty pathetic.I have a friend who is fighting cancer now, she is going through much the same thing and much of her treatment isn’t covered. My treatment was in excess of $60,000 and that was 7 yrs ago…I can’t imagimne what she’s paying out of her pocket today.We are SO overdue for universal healthcare.We’re a rich country, and if we can afford this stupid and crazy war, then we should be able to afford reasonable healthcare for our citizens.Wesley is doing a multi-million expansion AGAIN, and the pharmaceutical companies are spending BILLIONS on advertising and providing perks to doctors to prescribe their drugs…what’s wrong with this picture? Why do these corporations have so much money to throw around and the average American can’t even afford the insurance premiums for basic health care?
We do need to change something about our health system.
Statement: We are the richest country, we can afford universal health care.
Translation: Other people should pay my medical bills.
There are many problems with our system. However, to only look at it as a cost to be paid without looking into the causes of that cost is economically irresponsible. Health care is a personal issue. Universal health care will only give everyone the same low-class HMO.
Gene, first of all personal bankruptcies are filed under Chapters 7 & 13 of the UCC, not Chapter 11 (my mistake).
That said, I am not sure I understand your question, “So you want to account for all the bankruptcies on healthcare?”
I take your meaning this way: Pedant, show me how many bankruptcies are due to healthcare.
And that said, check out the link. It represents research done before last year’s new bankruptcy law was enacted.
Further caveat, from the link:”Personal bankruptcy is common. Nearly 1.5 million couples or individuals filed bankruptcy petitions in 2001, a 360 percent increase since 1980.3 Fragmentary data from the legal literature suggest that illness and medical bills contribute to bankruptcy. Most previous studies of medical bankruptcy, however, have relied on court records—where medical debts may be subsumed under credit card or mortgage debt—or on responses to a single survey question.4 None has collected detailed information on medical expenses, diagnoses, access to care, work loss, or insurance coverage. Research has been impeded both by the absence of a national repository for bankruptcy filings and by debtors’ reticence to discuss their bankruptcy; in population-based surveys, only half of those who have undergone bankruptcy admit to it.5″
I take the paragraph above to indicate, among other things, that it’s difficult to reach the conclusion that I reached above (hospitals in the US are a graveyard for personal finance).
I admit my conclusion is more intuitive than empirical. I would bet money that I can stand by it, however.
http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/hlthaff.w5.63/DC1
Full and fair disclosure:
I am a Health Insurance Agent and a Licensed Stock Broker.
I, too, think the current system can be improved.
Let us start, however, by holding Michael Moore accountable. Moore is a Liar and a Fraud! Lets use one of Moore’s examples:
1.) Primary and secondary insurance issues are important. If you have Medicare or Medicaid, current GOVERNMENT programs, and someone crashes into your car, injuring you, should Medicare or Medicaid (taxpayers) pay for your injury?
Answer: “NO!” The auto insurance is the primary coverage in this case, and the auto insurance should pay up to the policy limits. Then, the government would pay the rest, through Medicare or Medicaid, but the government and the injured party would have the right to sue the individual at fault for more money, if necessary. (Especially if the individual was driving without auto insurance.)
2.) Obviously, driving without auto insurance is a national problem, and car accidents are a major contributor to emergency room costs. The law in nearly every state REQUIRES that we all have auto insurance if we want to own a car. Some states even require insurance to get a license! Since this is a major source of the “problem,” why doesn’t Moore do an honest job of showing us the number of people who refuse to buy auto liability insurance? I would also like to know the party affiliations of those who violate the law and drive without insurance. Any guess which party would dominate that list?
3.) Michael Moore’s movie makes an issue out of a auto-wreck case where a claim for an ambulance was denied by a group or individual health plan. So what? It is RARE for such expenses to be paid by an individual or group health carrier, until such time as it is proven that the person at fault in the accident was an “uninsured” driver. At that point, the health plan provider would pay the ambulance charge, but the government or the individual would be free to take the “at fault” driver to court for recovery, (Cant get blood out of a turnip, so it doesnt happen often.)– or go through “subrogation” and recover from the auto insurance company, if they are slow to pay. For instance, if the at fault driver claims to have auto insurance, but is not telling the truth, that delays paperwork, then the injured innocent driver can usually file under the “uninsured motorist” portion of her policy. This takes time. Private insurance might well pay, and then go through “subrogation” and recover from the auto insurance. Each State is a little different, each case is a little different.
Current, GOVERNMENT health insurance programs will NOT “PAY FIRST” in auto accident cases. Why should they?
Why should PRIVATE health insurance pay first, in cases where auto insurance is “Primary” — especially if the government health plan is even tougher with their rules than private insurance?
When Micheal Moore needs a quintuple bypass in a couple of years, do you really think he is going to fly down to Havanna to let comrade Fidel’s wonderful health care system do it? No way. He’s going find the finest doctors and hospital that the United States has to offer. The same Doctors and Hospitals he wants to destroy to make way for his progressive, socialist nightmare known as universal health care. What a scum bag.
Typical Paul, he thinks health care is something reserved for a privileged few.
When Moore interviewed one of the British who talked about the history of medical care in England he made a great point. England, which had just been bankrupted by the war gave something back to the people for their sacrifice. The country gave it’s people universal health care. Our country wasn’t demolished and the entire country pitched in for the war effort and instead of providing for universal health care we built up our war machine and gave the people nothing.
It’s sad when our politicians demand sacrifice from us after they declare war but is it too much to ask that our politicians sacrifice some ink to write a bill that gives us all health care? Some like Paul might think we don’t deserve health care but I think it’s a human right, not something for the wealthy.
Mary Caruso – I also was recenty diagnosed with cancer. I cannot believe the frustration and headaches I have only started to experience with my health insurance company and my cancer doctor. I ask questions and I get someone giving me a big sigh and rolling their eyes, as if I have no right to ask anything. I held up my chemo treatment for 1hr because I wanted answers as to what chemicals they were giving me. Patients should not have to go through all this crap. Needless to say, I changed cancer doctors and I found one that actually listens to me prior to telling me what he wants to do. This is my cancer, not his, and I should have the right to his expert opinion but ultimately I am the last word on what kind of treatment I receive. patients need to be more aware and involved in their own healthcare and if doctors don’t like that aspect, then find yourself another doctor.
And why is it John Edwards fault about our crappy healthcare system? Edwards is a godsend to those patients whose lives have been lost or severely impaired by bad doctors or defective medical products. That’s the problem with the healthcare system today – we have been brainwashed to think that all doctors are God and we have no right to question them. Well, those days are over and I cannot wait for the day when the US finally gets in step with the rest of the world and offers universal health care.
If these Christian Conservatives who vote Republican really lived their faith, then I would expect them to live like Jesus lived – help the poor, the sick and the dying. Why are these Christian Conservatives supporting the current healthcare system where the insurance companies and specialists are the only ones making money (and they are making a ton of money – I’ve got the bills to prove my cancer doctor is making tons of money).
Chris, here’s some other socialist programs you enjoy in America. Police, Fire Department, military, and schools. Would you prefer to fill out a bunch of paperwork before the fire department will put out your house fire? Or do you prefer that they come there, do their job and save lives with no questions asked?
Fire and Police are more about public safety than to care about one person’s house on fire. Military used to be about protecting our country against our enemies but that has been shanghaid by King George since he invaded Iraq when he should have gone after Bin Laden, the real mastermind of 9/11.
Doug
Again, try to stay focused, will you?
Tell me how your “solution” to the “problem” will eliminate human error, will you?
Do you propose that auto insurance STOPS paying for the medical liability of automobile wrecks? How is that fair?
Futhermore:
Health Insurance and Health Care are two different things!
You CAN get health care in this country WITHOUT health insurance.
Furthermore, a VERY large number of the “uninsured” are uninsured by CHOICE.
Those people have decided that they accept the risk of going without.
The number of “poor” without insurance, who do not qualify for Medicaid, is actually very small.
And again, health insurance coverage and access to health care are two different things.
Hospitals can NOT deny treatment to anybody.
Yes some break the law, that will be true under ANY system.
I deal with CMS every day, the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Government programs are run by human beings, just like private programs.
There will be mistakes in ANY system.
However, when I inform a PRIVATE company that they have made a mistake, it is usually fixed on the same day.
CMS, the GOVERNMENT program, takes MONTHS to fix even a simple problem.
Thanks Paul, apparently you haven’t seen the movie so you don’t know what you are talking about. The focus of the movie was people with health insurance you can’t get coverage. This is solved by not having for-profit corporations deny people the services they’ve paid for and instead have universal coverage like France, Canada, England and Cuba where people aren’t denied treatment.
Have you seen the movie yet? My bets are that you haven’t. So try to be a bit more informed before you criticize something you know nothing about.
Here’s something for you Paul. Apparently this woman died because of the treatment the hospital never refused her.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050/
Keep living in your conservative fantasy land where you deny the problems so you have nothing to worry about.
DougYour bias is showing.
Do people die in countries that have “single payer” systems?
Is everyone in a socialist, government run system guaranteed perfection at every step of their treatment?
Pointing out problems in our system is one thing. Those problems can and will be fixed. However, you are delusional if you think the SAME problems, or even worse problems, don’t exist in other countries.
Your PRESCRIPTION does not fit the DIAGNOSIS.
Again, you have avoided the auto insurance question entirely.
Why should taxpayers pay for injuries that are caused by a drunk driver? Shouldnt the drunk driver’s auto insurance pay?
I just realized something…if we go to national healthcare, our AUTO insurances won’t be able to charge us as much either because we won’t have the health liability.
HMM.
Cheaper, BETTER, I can’t think of a good reason why NOT to go to National Healthcare…and obviously by this thread, the conservatives can’t either.
Except in Paul’s case, to keep him in a job.
I see Paul, so if something isn’t perfect it’s better to have nothing at all. You auto insurance issue is completely irrelevant. If I get hit by an uninsured driver then the money comes out of my pocket if I need treatment. With universal health care I don’t have a problem. So where’s the problem?
You haven’t seen the film have you? No, of course you haven’t so you really don’t know what you are talking about but that’s nothing new.
Paul Rosell is a Republican shill that does not believe in anyone else having anything but I bet he would squeal like a fat pig if his health insurance was taken away from him?
And what fantasy world does he live in to think the uninsured are that way by choice? Paul is a complete buffoon or just a big naive piece of humanity.
Duiring my childhood, 50’s to 60’s, everyone I knew went to the doctor. Everyone had access to the doctor. The thing we did not have during those days were the greedy insurance companies and even greedier doctors and hospitals.
I worked for a neurologist a couple years ago and his wife was complaining because he was not making enough money. He filed on $500,000 the year before and I saw the income tax return in his file – so I KNOW what amount he filed on. And this wife (his second wife, of course, is so greedy that $500,000 a year is not enough for her?)
No matter what Republicans like Paul Rosell say or think, the average American citizen is wising up to the fact that our country is going downhill and going even faster. My God, the US used to rank first in most every category and now we rank near the bottom of most polls taken. That is a sad legacy of what was once a proud nation. But, unfortunately, we have too many people who are out for themselves and not giving a damn about the rest of the Americans. We are only as good as we treat the least of our citizens. And, to think, the Republicans actually believe they are the party of God. Of course, their God is money.
We have a guaranteed issue health plan in Kansas.Every state has health insurance for the uninsured who have health problems. We all pay premium taxes to the insurance companies we deal with that help to subsidize this program.Yes, it is expensive.However, the millionaires that refuse to buy coverage, when they are healthy, should not have the government bail them out, when they get sick!The poor have Medicaid.
This is where I sent stubborn people who dont want to buy insurance until they get sick:
http://www.khiastatepool.com/whatis.asp
Paul, you also claimed this woman received treatment because no hospital could refuse her treatment:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050/
So why did she die waiting for treatment that was denied to her? Keep on denying the facts and the issues Paul, it only helps to prove that you don’t know what you are talking about.
Fedup, I’m sorry about your cancer. My mom has been through 3 cancers now and she’s still cancer free. I hope it goes well.
My FIL has leukemia, and he’s treated with a pill…makes you wonder if they could actually CURE it instead of making him take this pill for life. Seems to practically cure it till he stops taking it.
That would be another thing…the government would now initiative to actually CURE things instead of just treat them.
I am going through a nightmare with my step-dad right now. He had a CT in the first week of April. He was actually so sick he was GREEN I thought he was going to die right then. Got the OK from the doctor about a week later. Then two weeks ago out of the blue, a specialist had finally looked at his CT and said his chest was full of huge lymph nodes. So we had to wait by the phone for a week while they tried to squeeze us in for a bronch biopsy that may or may not give us a diagnosis. It didn’t…so now we’re waiting another TWO weeks till the surgeon can open his chest to extract tissues for biopsy. (I’m sure the insurance company wanted the first procedure to try to save them some money).
God if it takes this damn long for a diagnosis, imagine how long it’s going to take to TREAT him if it’s lymphoma.
Who are these millionaires you keep talking about not buying health insurance? The people I know that are uninsured are the common, middle class people that cannot afford $800/month for their health insurance. And, God forbid, if you have a chronic condition like diabetes, then you will pay even more a month.
No one that I know in the real Kansas can afford $800/month for their health insurance. maybe Paul can, since he has tied himself to the Republican teat.
Paul, you know if we had universal coverage we wouldn’t need all these separate plans. It makes it really, really simple. Nobody has to fill out all these forms, nobody has to go to special hospitals that coverage such people, it’s available everywhere you go and the overhead costs are much lower.
But you think that having separate more expensive plans is better for some reason. Can you explain why your flawed system is better? Why is it we have millions of uninsured people but you claim we really don’t. Simple Paul, you don’t know what you are talking about. I suggest you actually go see Sicko before criticizing it because you clearly don’t know what you are talking about.
I have dental insurance. It’s been six months and in another year I can finally get treated. You know, with universal coverage I wouldn’t have to wait another year but Paul’s ideas are so much better. Wait longer so treatment becomes more problematic and expensive.
political mom
So you want the government to pay for drunk drivers, you want the government to pay for the irresponsible?
It WONT happen P-mom.
Not even the liberal Democrats in Congress will do anything like what you dream.
Auto insurance will continue to cover auto risks.
My point is that the government wont pay auto risks EITHER, just like the case that the liar Michael Moore brought up with private insurance.
Folks, NURSING HOME costs are the huge liability out there for agents to work with.
I work with those over 65, primarily. Medicare has HUGE gaps. MEDIGAP insurance is a huge part of my business.
Medicare and Medigap do NOT pay for Nursing Home or custodial care.
If Medicaid pays, they, the STATE, will put a lien on your house, and will track assets back AT LEAST 5 years, after your death, to put liens on your kids, grandkids etc, if you try to transfer any money to them.
I have plenty to do.
There is absolutely NO WAY that the government will put private insurance agents out of business.
I know change is comming.
I also know, better than any of you, what problems the government has with the programs it already runs.
Anything NEW that Congress dreams up will ALSO have gaps.
The coverage WONT be “universal” primarily because UNIVERSAL coverage would REQUIRE that most Labor Union members accept a REDUCTION in current benefits.
It WONT happen!
Paul, you jerk, you know most people who are working poor can’t qualify for medicaid, so don’t even give me that. With it costing over 500 dollars a month JUST FOR THE INSURANCE, most people cannot afford it.
Major medical insurance doesn’t do squat for the poor. They don’t buy it because then they have to buy their insurance just in case, and still have to pay their outrageous costs for the right now out of their own pocket.
I don’t know why the insured just don’t get it. They’re already paying their OWN health insurance…hell health insurance IS socialized medicine in a way- it’s just run by a business…you all pay in, you all benefit. And on top of it you’re paying your taxes for those who can’t afford it.
So why not instead just have ALL of us put in for socialized medicine? I’ll bet it’ll save you money.
Paul, the subject is health care. Auto insurance companies can pay for damages to cars while the health care industry can treat damages to people. It’s really simple. I suggest you try not to look so foolish by confusing cars with people.
Thanks, mary, but I learned early on that I have to take control of my own healthcare decision. And if that means fighting with the doctor and the insurance company, then so be it. But the average person has no idea what awaits them if they hear the dreaded cancer diagnosis. This is a world that is so foreign to me (and I have worked in the medical field).
Luckily, my surgeon was right on top of things and I didn’t have to wait.
I wish you luck with your step-dad. These are trying times and my heart goes out to you all dealing with this.
I still do not understand how a country such as ours who professes to be such a Christian nation can be satisfied with our current healthcare system and to be satisified with being ranked as one of the lowest in the world?
Doug
C O M P E T I T I O N
Competition keeps prices lower than they would be otherwise.
Filling out forms? Give me a break.
Have you ever filled out Medicare or VA forms? Or Medicaid forms?(They ALL ask about auto wreck information, too, by the way.)
What is obviously lacking in this topic is the fact that many Canadians buy Health Insurance now so they can be seen due to their extremely slow nanny run healthcare system.
Imagine that, having still to buy Medical Insurance even though their government is supposed to provide that.
Such a good system.
You’re wrong there Paul. People will still have to have their auto insurance to pay for damage to the other car. And it will still have to pay in case someone sues you for killing someone in an at fault accident. But it won’t have to pay for the healthcare related to the accident. That’ll be a big reduction in costs.So no, it won’t put you out of business, but it’ll certainly lower how much you can sap out of people.
DougSevaral parts of SICKO are available on the WEB.I wont give MOORE a dime of my money, but several parts of the movie have been on TV as well.CNN even gave Moore a hard time over the auto wreck portion of Moores propaganda film
From the way paul posts, one would think he runs the entire government by himself. Of course, Paul wants to keep the status quo – he is right happy with the current system. He has his and to hell with the rest of you peons.
DougYOU ARE AN IDIOT!
Auto Insurance will CONTINUE to pay health costs of those injured in auto accidents.
You all who want healthcare, remember this was HILLARY’s plan all along. If they’d have helped her years ago, we might have it by now.
She’d be sure to sign anything enacting universal healthcare….a big reason to vote for her.
Paul, according to your competition myth we should have the lowest health care costs yet they keep on rising. Countries with universal health care have lower costs. Go figure, you’re wrong again. This was addressed in the movie which you have not seen. So I really suggest you get educated about the subject before you look even more foolish.
Republican, the issue of waiting lines was also addressed in the movie and you were proven wrong. Again, I suggest you watch the movie since the anti-coverage nuts have been proven wrong on their talking points.
Paul, if there’s universal health coverage then the auto insurance companies don’t need to pay for the health care. You have gone over the top on lunacy with that post.
pmomI dont sell auto insurance.
DougNobody in Congress has propsed what you suggest.
Paul, why was that girl denied coverage for two implants but not the one? Since your system makes so much sense and is so much better why is two considered experimental? Universal coverage would give her the two.
Paul, are you suggesting Dennis Kucinich has not proposed universal health care? Again, you don’t know what you are talking about.
Paul, why is it you neo-con nutjobs can spend a trillion dollars to illegally occupy Iraq but you can’t find the money for health care? Are the deaths of Iraqis more important to you than the care of Americans?
Maybe Canada has the right idea. Provide basic universal health insurance and if people want to purchase more coverage, then it is up to the individual.
I find it ironic that Republicans are always wishing to go back to the good old days where people took responsibility for themselves. I agree, up to a point. But I also wonder if the doctors of today are willing to go back to the good old days of being a doctor?
You know, the doctor was usually the poorest person in the town. The doctor would take chicken, vegetables or other goods in lieu of money. He also made house calls and usually lived behind his office.
I wonder how many doctors of today would be willing to be a doctor under those conditions?
My childhood doctor was our family doctor for 40 years. He knew everyone in my family and he took care of, and care about, all my family. How many people can say that about their doctor of today? Does your doctor even know you have a family and does he even care if he did know?
That’s what is missing today. Americans caring about other Americans. It’s about time we change that fact and stop worshiping the God of money and greed.
It is truly sad when I have to say that our system of health care is so inefficient that a universal government plan would be much better.
Our current system (1.) Hinders our doctors from focusing on the job they trained to do, (2.) Forces way more paperwork on doctors and hospitals than necessary, (3.) Forces employee’s and employer’s to compete against each other in paying for part of the system, (4.)Leaves many people with inadequate health care, and (5.) still relies on the government to fill in the gaps and pick up the tab that can’t be covered by individuals. At the same time it allows insurance companies to make decisions on the treatment a person gets based on their profit and loss statement instead of the individual’s need. I would call that system BROKEN.
The only person here to rail against the idea of universal health coverage is Econ101, and he readily admits that he is an insurance agent! In answer to his gripes about socialism I believe we are our brother’s keeper and we have a responsibility to help those who are less fortunate. Sometimes that is done collectively, as in Universal Health Care.
The United States has one of the best health care systems that money can buy. It is time we made it available to those in need, not just those who can afford it.
“What is obviously lacking in this topic is the fact that many Canadians buy Health Insurance now so they can be seen due to their extremely slow nanny run healthcare system.”
That sounds like another republican BS story. What percentage of Canadians actually do that?
According to Moore’s movie when Canadians come to America they first purchase traveler’s insurance in case they get injured in America they’ll still get covered by the Canadian system. That must be the additional insurance plan Republican is talking about.
Doug”Universal coverage would give her two” you say?
Bull, you are nuts.
Have you EVER even seen an EOB or Explanation of Benefits from Medicare or Medicaid? They deny claims all the time.
How on Earth do you KNOW what would be covered and what would NOT be covered, by ANY “universal” plan.
By the way, Medicare does NOT cover ordinary and routine optical or dental.
In my opinion, and action on this front will probably involve a “buy in” for Medicare, for those who are not disabled or on Medicaid and are under 65.
Again, most labor union benefits cover optical and dental.
The Unions will fight “universal coverage.”
any action, sorry
I’m in a union and my union favors universal coverage. Again, you don’t know what you are talking about.
I mentioned the implants to get your response. Do you even know what implants I’m talking about? Probably not. Well, not surprising that when the person was first denied the two implants for his daughter he called up the insurance company and mentioned Michael Moore’s name. All of a sudden the second implant didn’t become “experimental” and was covered.
Funny how that works sometimes isn’t it? Again, you don’t know what you are talking about.
What is the PURPOSE of health insurance?
Protecting your assetts.
You must understand this point before you even attempt to discuss this issue.
IF YOU OWN NOTHING, GOING WITHOUT INSURANCE MIGHT BE A REASONABLE RISK.
Health care and health insurance are two entirely different things.
Life Insurance doesnt keep you alive.
Health Insurance doesnt keep you healthy.
Insurance protects estates and investments and property.
That is what insurance is for.
By the way, another error by a liberal, up thread:Employer provided health care was a TAX SHELTER by companies during WW2. There were wage caps, placed by FDR, as well, that made it hard for companies to recruit. So they offered “benefits” as a trick to get around those caps.
Those “EVIL” corporations, always trying to cheat the system!
Why does anyone need to buy insurance when we have universal coverage? You are just whining because you want to protect your job. You really have no point.
assets lol, in a hurry todayI am sure the asses will notice.
DougI have less than one dozen individual health insurance clients.I have sold well over 300 Medicare Supplement plans, for those over 65.I have very little at stake in this argument, besides being a citizen and a voter and a taxpayer.NOBODY is even talking about changing the system for those over age 65.Besides, LONG TERM CARE INSURANCE is where the real need is.There is no possible way that the government can take over on that front.
Other countries have managed and they’ve provided more health care at lower costs. Apparently you prefer less health care at higher costs. Then again, you are a “fiscally conservative” Republican who can only repeat the same lines over and over again without addressing the facts. It’s a shame you refuse to watch Moore’s movie because it will shatter your ignorance about the problem and the solutions. If you are as correct as you claim to be then you won’t fear the movie.
Just like with Fahrenheit 9/11, false talking points are attacking the film.
Get the facts, such as “SiCKO: Canadian “wait times” not nearly as long as some try to allege”, info re Cuba, etc, at
‘CHECKUP ON THE FACTS’http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/
Watch the trailer, and get other info at links there.
“It’s a shame you refuse to watch Moore’s movie…”
Anyone who gets their information from a Moore movie is an idiot.It’s the same people who are told how to think by going to the Lib websites. No difference.Socialism, thy name is Lib.
Thanks for the input Fleety. Clearly you haven’t seen the film, you are ignorant about the contents, so you have to attack something you don’t know anything about. So far all the neo-con nutjobs have been attacking the film without having seen it. Good ol’ argument from ignorance.
Doug”Fear the movie”
That is a real laugh.Moore is an idiot.
That’s nice, but you haven’t been able to present me with anything he’s been wrong about. Are you saying you’ve been outsmarted by an “idiot”? So what does that make you? It makes you a neo-con.
fleettwood,
“Anyone who gets their information from a Moore movie is an idiot.”
Then prove that you are a “genius”, by proving that the facts in the film are inaccurate.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/
“SiCKO: There are nearly 50 million Americans without health insurance.”http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/health_care_insurance/009789.html
“SiCKO: The United States is ranked #37 as a health system by the World Health Organization.”http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2000/en/pr2000-44.html
And many more…
Hillary is affraid of Moore:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-movie22jun22,0,5962985.story?coll=la-home-center
I’m going to watch Sicko. I think it will be a good documentary.
But although people often compare the USA at the #37 rank. To be fair, since people of the left compare Cuba to USA health care system. On the same WHO list. Cuba ranks below the USA.
Something they forget to tell you.
The report Cosmos presented ranks Cuba at 39. Then again, Cuba is a piss poor country and America could only do a little better.
The ranking is full of bias.
How about ranking survival rates after stroke, or heart attack, or lung cancer operations?
They use touchy feely and arbitrary measurements that don’t make any sense for those rankings.
How is it biased Paul? It’s one thing to make accusations (which you do often) and another to back it up (which you rarely do).
“How about ranking survival rates after stroke, or heart attack, or lung cancer operations?
Posted by: Econ101 | June 30, 2007 at 01:32 PM ”
Are you implying that those rates are better in the US than in countries ranked higher than us on the list? If so, I would love to now where your information came from. If not, well….
Michael Moor and Sicko…
I can hear all the bleating from the sheeple now …
baaaa, baaaaaaa, baaaaaaa…
Here is a simple question for those that have been arguing against some sort of National Healthcare Plan:
Should the American government have any responsibility to ensure that all of its citizens have adequate healthcare that they can afford?
There will be some claim they can’t afford health care, because they are still paying deep debt on their Wide Screen TV, Play Stations for everyone and their Lexus/Cadillac; and their house they bought which they can’t afford and was way above their ability to pay for in the first place.
The U.S. Government already has Medicare for the elderly and Medicaid for the poor.
Republican,
“I can hear all the bleating from the sheeple now …
baaaa, baaaaaaa, baaaaaaa…”
Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
Republican, could you address the problem that was addressed in the movie? How about those millions who are insured but can’t get treatment? How does your negligence of the issue solve that problem?
Doug,
Don’t you understand? Republican’s ignorance, and denial, gives him “bliss”.
Check Out a Scene from Michael Moore’s ‘SiCKO’http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV4-Wtu-vvI&NR=1
HealthCare for All Kansans
http://www.khcfa.org/
The former big three are begging for universal health care. It would provide a boost for jobs in america aka economic growth.
Sorry, I don’t view propaganda films like Sicko.
cosmos again with the statistics that skew the view. Tell me cosmos, how many Americans die each year with insurance or did your cult leader Michael “Morbidly Obese” Moore forget that statistic?
Millions who can’t get treatment and are insured? Are you talking about “experimental” treatments?
Life is fragile, there are a number of diseases that can’t be cured presently, but it doesn’t make sense to blame a system because one is unfortunate to acquire a particular disease.
I have a cousin whose wife had cancer now for twenty years and still in relatively good health. I’ve had neighbors who have had the best health insurance money can buy along with substantial savings and they died within six months. Money or having mega insurance isn’t the solution for all disease. Sometimes the disease is greater than any medical understanding in any type of system.
What’s the death rate of people in Socialized Medicine for people with these incurable diseases? I’m willing to bet it’s pretty close to the U.S. statistics, if not worse.
Did you watch the Republican National Party Convention?? LOL
I have even heard some of the Neo Con talking media people say Mihel Moore’s movie is NOT a political movie… NON political… So stay on the issues here…
Auto insurance in Canada still covers injuries… Property/Casualty in Canada still covers liability if somebody is hurt in an accident… Employers still have workers compensation insurance… They just dont have Health Insurance the way WE do…
Republican,
“Sorry, I don’t view propaganda films like Sicko.”
Like I said, Republican’s ignorance, and denial, gives him “bliss”.
The Youtube clip at 2:09 PM shows the British system — a patient is reimbursed for travel expenses.
And Republican believes that 18,000 Americans (and their surviving family and friends) are simply “statistics that skew the view”.
Institute of Medicine of the National Academieshttp://www.iom.edu/?id=19175“Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States. Although America leads the world in spending on health care, it is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage.”
Mr. Repubnon wont look at movies by michael moore but he will no doubt watch Fox noise channel, and listen to some of the talking head radio/tv shows… hmmmm
Cosmos,,, get ready for some kind of personal attack in 5..4..3..2…
The Truth About Canada’s Ailing Health-Care System
By: Robert J. CihakThe Seattle Times”In 1999, Dr. Richard F. Davies described how delays affected Ontario heart patients scheduled for coronary artery bypass graft (CABG) surgery. In a single year, just for this one operation, 71 Ontario patients died before surgery, “121 were removed from the list permanently because they had become medically unfit for surgery” and 44 left the province to have their CABG surgery elsewhere, often in the U.S.
In an article in the journal Health Affairs, Robert Blendon describes an international survey of hospital administrators in Australia, New Zealand, Great Britain, the U.S. and Canada. When asked for the average waiting time for biopsy of a possible breast cancer in a 50-year-old woman, 21 percent of administrators of Canadian hospitals said more than three weeks; only 1 percent of American hospital administrators gave the same answer.
Fifty percent of the Canadian hospital administrators said the average waiting time for a 65-year-old man who requires a routine hip replacement was more than six months; in contrast, not one American hospital administrator reported waiting periods that long. Eighty-six percent of American hospital administrators said the average waiting time was shorter than three weeks; only 3 percent of Canadian hospital administrators said their patients have this brief a wait. ”
The Truth About Canadian Health CareOpinion Editorial by Steve Chapman – Jun 17, 2005
“The dirty secret of the system is that universal access is no guarantee of treatment. Sick Canadians spend months and even years on waiting lists for surgery and other procedures. In 1993, the average wait to see a specialist after getting a doctor’s referral was nine weeks. Since then, according to the Fraser Institute of Vancouver, it’s increased to 18 weeks.
The typical patient needing orthopedic surgery has time to get pregnant and deliver a baby before being called. The Supreme Court cited the testimony of one orthopedic surgeon that 95 percent of patients in Canada waited over a year for knee replacements — with many of them in limbo for two years.
Take breast cancer. In Britain, which is famous for its socialized system, close to half of all victims die of the disease, according to a recent Cato Institute study by John Goodman, head of the National Center for Policy Analysis. In Germany and France, almost one-third do. In Canada, the figure is 28 percent — and here, it’s 25 percent. Our mortality rate for prostate cancer is 67 percent lower than Britain’s and 24 percent lower than Canada’s.
The usual story we hear is that the health care system next door provides first-rate care to all, at low cost. The realities — dangerous delays, bloated expenditures and mediocre results — are not so appealing. American liberals may not welcome evidence that the single-payer model works far better in theory than in practice. But for that, they can blame Canada.”
Quebec tiptoes into private health insurance
(Was illegal before to provide Private Health Care)
“The Canadian Supreme Court ruled that private health care is legal when the government doesn’t provide timely service, reports the Wall Street Journal in Shock Treatment for Canadian Health Care. As I’ve written before, (see Report from Montreal), private care has been slowly entering Quebec for non-insured services such as certain MRI procedures.”=============Yeah, Private Health Care Providers in Canada, because their government cannot provide necessary services.
All that free care in Britain is fantastic, unless you’re a woman with breast cancer, then you have a 1 in 2 chance of dieing.
Or you can stay here in the U.S. and have a 1 in 4 chance of surviving.
Or maybe your a man with Prostate Cancer in the U.S.? You have a 67 percent better chance of surviving in the U.S. than you do in Britain.
Yeah, great health care in those socialized system. Free care, they run out of supplies and your chance of dieing is greater than the U.S.
Where do we sign up for our free health care so we can all die faster? :)
That should read as 25 percent death rate for Breast Cancer, not 1 in 4 chance of surviving. :)
note: Britain’s breast cancer death rate is 50 percent.
More than likely reported by ANTI Universal Health Care lobbyists in the USA… A doctor friend of mine says one BIG reason USA docs dont want Universal Health Care, is because they couldnt charge their current fees… they would be paid by the government…
Just a little note here. I have doctor friends too. Some of them are from England. They cannot understand the americans pell mell rush into socialized medicine. Doesn;t work as well there, won;t work as well here. Unless you cann reducing everyones health care down to the lowest common denominator.
I would agree, LJ, Medicine in some socialized medicine nations is practiced on more of a Triage basis than here…
I know one Canadian Dr. who went to medical school at KU Med. School here… practiced in rural kansas for 8 years… but went BACK to Canada… at a CUT in pay, because he could do real medicine there, and not insurance medicine here… I guess it gets arguments from both view points… However, thats what many have said about the Moore movie… it is NOT a political movie…
crap. gotta go. Boss, I mean wife, calling. needs an errand done. see ya all lagter
Note that Republican didn’t provide the link to back up his post.
He’s notorious for adding or subtracting stuff to support his position.
He lies a lot.
“CUSTOMER SATISFACTION” is one of the categories in the “rating” of different health care systems.
It seems obvious to me, that if customers or patient DIE because of bad coverage, they probably are not included in the survey of satisfaction.
By the way, the United States rates among the HIGHEST in “SATISFACTION.”
Those in Canada and other socialized countries have BAD coverage and they DIE more frequently!
So noted XXX
Could that satisfaction rating in USA have anything to do with the simple fact that MOST of us in USA dont know any other system than what we have now???
Given the fairly high number of foreign doctors who come to USA as experienced, practicing physicians, who dont meet USA standards for medical practice, and have to have MORE schooling, perhaps say more about the level of medical training in other countries, and less about their Health Care System???
I think these are questions that are not being dealt with here… yet…
Example: My Oncologist in Iowa was from Pakistan… When she came to USA, she had already been practicing in Oncology for 10 years… When she arrived here, she learned that she needed to have two more years of medical school, before she could be licensed in USA… She is a fine doctor as well…
ChasI think the average Mexican KNOWS we are better, that is one of the reasons they cross the border, dont you think?
Anyway, Chas, think of the logic of your underlying question, would you?What does the average Canadian or European know about American Health Care?I think the ignorance on other countries plans is rather evenly distrubuted across borders.
Even so, Americans rate among the highest in satisfaction, on the survey that YOU LIBERALS use to justify national health care.
Check out one of Republican’s sources,
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=2117
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_Institute“The Discovery Institute is a think tank based in Seattle, Washington best known for its advocacy of intelligent design and its Teach the Controversy campaign to get creationist beliefs taught in United States public high school science courses.”
A good CNBC video interview of Moore,http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/06/28/michael-moore-denied-entry-into-the-nyse
He points out that there ARE problems in Canada, Britian, and France — but argues that the U.S. should use the parts of each of their systems that work well.
Basically, we avoid their mistakes/problems.
“More than likely reported by ANTI Universal Health Care lobbyists in the USA.”Posted by: Chas. | June 30, 2007 at 02:51 PM
If you wish, I can include all the Canadian authors that have many things to say about Canadian Health Care System, since you seem to think (without checking your facts) that the reports are some sort of conspiracy plot against the Libs.
From Canada:Guest Speaker at Heritage Foundation:
“Angus Reid has done other polls as well. A year and a half ago, a poll sent shock waves across the country when 73 percent of Canadians described their health care system as being “in crisis.” Reid actually went back and redid the poll six months later: 78 percent of Canadians now thought the system was in crisis.”
“In Manitoba, which is my former home province, the premier–the political equivalent of a governor–concedes that his pledge to end hallway medicine has fallen short. Hallway medicine is the phenomenon where the emergency rooms are so filled with patients that people are forced to lie on stretchers in hallways, often for days. Overcrowding is a periodic problem. In fact, the overcrowding is worse than last year. The community is rocked by the death of a 74-year old man who had waited in the emergency room for three hours and had not been seen.”
“The Canadian system is ailing. Why? I believe that Canadian medicare suffers from a basic economic problem. We have a free-for-all system, and, as health economists have well shown, costs are driven up. Patients tend to overconsume health services while providers tend to oversupply health services. The only way we can deal with this is to ration through waiting.
It’s like the old Soviet system: Everything is free, but nothing is readily available. It’s very amusing when you’re talking about toilet paper in Moscow in 1975; it’s far less amusing when you’re talking about cancer treatment in Toronto in the year 2001.”
BRITAIN
“Today in the U.K., we’re seeing a dramatic increase in the number of people who are turning away from the NHS, and many people who have no private medic insurance are simply self-funding. One in five people who go into British private hospitals just take their credit card or cash, or it’s the family clubbing together to buy Mom a heart bypass or Dad a hip replacement. Probably nearly 200,000 surgical procedures a year now are done on that basis.”
# We’re seeing a dramatic increase in number of people covered by the health cash benefit schemes. Five years ago, 3 million people were covered by those schemes. Today it’s probably between 5 and 6 million.
# We’re seeing a continuation in the growth of private medical insurance, probably about 2 percent a year in coverage.
# We’re seeing recently the launch of private prescriptions for even NHS patients. For example, if you want Viagra, the NHS will no longer pay for it. You have to go private in many instances.”
====================Fancy that, Brits having to buy private health insurance to get treatment and medicines.====================
European Health Care Not Moore’s Utopia
By MARIA CHENGThe Associated PressSaturday, June 30, 2007; 2:23 PM
“LONDON — When Penny Campbell fell ill after a routine surgery in March 2005, the 41-year-old mother did what many Britons are instructed to do to avoid clogging up the country’s emergency rooms: She called a telephone help line staffed by doctors.
With worsening symptoms over the next four days, Campbell spoke to six doctors and saw two in person. When she was finally diagnosed with a blood infection, it was too late: Hours later, Campbell died from multi-organ failure.
“The NHS is full of inequity,” said Dr. Karol Sikora, a professor of cancer medicine at London’s Hammersmith Hospital. “Whether or not you get cancer drugs to save your life can come down to where you live.”
You know cosmos, if you think the health care is so good in Canada, Britain or Cuba go live there.
What’s that? :)
That’s what I thought.
You won’t get your way cosmos, because your are too extreme left for the U.S. Just another troublemaker who latches on to the latest cultism and exclaims its virtues is greater than anything in the U.S. cosmos is a true “blame America first” Leftist card carrying member in favor of socializing of the U.S.
Whether or not you get cancer drugs to save your life can come down to where you live.”
Posted by: Republican | June 30, 2007 at 03:23 PM
Ummm this happens all to often HERE as well as elsewhere…
Econ, The logic of what I posted is quite simple… If WE have better medical training than elsewhere, then it would stand to reason that our people are going to have a higher satisfaction rating than a nation with a lower level of medical training… That is all I was saying… Why do you want to spin it into Lib/Con issues??? I think health care is far above petty politics…
So XXX is providing civil discourse to the topic by calling me a liar because I post titles and authors rather than hyperlinks.
Well, let’s see XXX,
BOO
HOO
That is all I was saying… Why do you want to spin it into Lib/Con issues??? I think health care is far above petty politics…
Posted by: Chas. | June 30, 2007 at 03:29 PM
Then point that out to XXX and cosmos Chas or are you scared to offend them and not be their buddies anymore?
I call out BS when I see. I address with LJ and SolDev all the time. I have this feeling you won’t because your Lib slant to be friends instead of using common sense.
Now, there you go again… I cant control what other posters write… I am convinced that health care is FAR above politics… My response was to Econ… Unless you are using HIS/HER nic today along with yours…
Didn’t say anything about “control” Chas. I’m saying you ALWAYS give your Lib friends a bye without exception, regardless of whatever nasty things they have to say.
Okay, I’m done with WE Blog for the day, have work to do.
Enjoy debating yourself.
Republican,
“So XXX is providing civil discourse to the topic by calling me a liar because I post titles and authors rather than hyperlinks.”
Republican posts carefully selected snips,
‘European Health Care Not Moore’s Utopia’http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/30/AR2007063000367.html“LONDON — When Penny Campbell fell ill after a routine surgery in March 2005, …
“I wouldn’t want Penny’s case to be used as evidence that the National Health Service’s core principles are wrong,” said Angus MacKinnon, Campbell’s partner. “What we have in Britain is still a hundred times better than America.”
MacKinnon is convinced that what happened to Campbell is the fate of countless poor people in the U.S.”
And Republican IS a known LIAR — levees, lasers, etc. He’s also a nic stealer, and switcher.
Well, cosmos, when it comes to health care, I think that issue is a far distance about politics… as i have said several times here today… Repub is upset that I said that as a response to Econ, and not to everybody… however, I figure anybody can read it and see my opinion…
I mean, its simple… A teacher calls down ONE student for talking… The teacher doesnt need to do roll call for the other 25 – 30 in the class for the rest of them to GET it… LOL
Notice how cosmos glosses over the fact that 25 percent more die in Britain due to Breast Cancer and 67 percent with prostate Cancer.
These are unimportant facts right cosmos? I mean people dieing isn’t significant because they have to wait and wait to be get diagnosed and treated.
Okay, doing mucho yard work before it gets wet again.
Cosmos, IF I show on the Blog before about 9 p.m., then it WONT be me… I shall be gone until about then… Hope you have a good evening… Time to get ready for Prairie Home Companion… my Sat. nite church service LOL
Republican,
“You know cosmos, if you think the health care is so good in Canada, Britain or Cuba go live there.”
About 18,000 Americans will die this year because they’re they’re uninsured. THEY should move, before they become sick, and die.
Republican: “Notice how cosmos glosses over the fact that 25 percent more die in Britain due to Breast Cancer and 67 percent with prostate Cancer.”
WHEN were those “facts”? Before, or after Britian reduced the wait time?
Your source,http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/30/AR2007063000367.html“A tripling of British government spending on health care in over the last decade to $187 billion, has meant that patients are treated quicker.”
A good CNBC video interview of Moore,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcuw-_AOk6g
At about 1:40, Moore says we should take one thing they do right in Canada, the one thing they do right in Britian, the one thing they do right in France, and put it together and call it the American system.
Don’t do the things they do wrong.
Chas
“Politics” is about POLICY.
EVERYTHING is political.
There is nothing wrong with that.
What is wrong is to twist the facts, lie, ignore the consequences of proposed actions and ignore evidence of possible problems with proposed changes.
This is POLITICAL debate.
I admit my bias, up front. I work with government and private health insurance programs EVERY day, and I see trouble with BOTH.
I happen to believe that a “mixed” system is best.
I also do NOT believe that the problems presented on this thread can be eliminated or even improved by a socialized, nationalized system.
I do not believe that Michael Moore has the best interest of America at heart.
Michael Moore is not a creater or builder, he is a destroyer.
Destroying the current system is what matters to Moore and the liberal left.
What takes its place is secondary to them.
There is NO reason to believe that a single-payer, nationalized system would NOT look much like Medicare or Medicaid.
Those systems are FAR from perfect.
OK I am back briefly… You WANT it to be politics, because if it is politics, you dont have to deal with the PEOPLE nature of the health care issue… If its all just Policy, then the people dont really matter, cause it is just politics… NO, Health Care is MUCH MORE than politics… IF it isnt, shame on us!!!
Have you SEEN the movie, Econ?? Because the only reviews I have heard so far come from the Right Wing, and MANY are saying that they were amazed that Moore’s flick is NOT a political movie… I plan to see it as soon as I can… So, if you havent seen it, at least go see it, and then see if it is like some of the right wing commentators are saying, or if it is what you think it is… If you have seen it, let me and others see it too, then we have notes to compare… By the way, No plan devised will be free of errors, and glitches… but then, we are human, and mistakes are made… And if it looks like Medicare/Medicaid, hey, it could be a lot worse!!
OK back around 9…
“Have you SEEN the movie, Econ??”
If you go to see this movie for the truth, you are a fool.
Cuban health care is so good that they had to import doctors from Spain to treat Castro. Their hospitals are so great you get to bring your own food and bedsheets and soap! In fact, you have to. Only party officials and “medical tourists” paying in dollars get the good treatment.
Cuba has a two-tier health care system. Those who count, get. Those who don’t count, don’t get much. It has some excellent primary and preventative care simply by having lots of doctors–over a quarter of which they then export to other countries in exchange for oil and cash. Most of the medicine available to ordinary Cubans comes from “care packages” sent from other countries–items such as latex gloves and aspirin are in short supply, not to mention more advanced drugs. There’s a lower level of heart disease and some cancers than in America–to large extent because most Cubans are too poor to afford tobacco or enough food to achieve obesity. They claim a lower rate of infant mortality–but don’t mention their massive abortion rates, or that premature babies are not counted as live births.
Some of their health stats are achieved by a method available to all–they lie. Kinda like Michael Moore does.
Not that our system doesn’t have big nasty gaping flaws. It does. Once the Castro-lovers quit their adoration routine, maybe they can come up with some actual constructive suggestions to fix them.
Paul F. Rosell and fleettwood,
Here are some facts from the film,http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/
Try to prove that they are lies.
Illegal immigrants are not coming here because our healthcare system is better, they are crossing our borders daily because they get FREE healthcare here in the US.
If you doubt that, just check out who is getting their welfare checks and their medical cards. It’s not the working poor or the middle class people, that’s for sure.
didn’t even have to read all of the ignorant comments by the regular few.
MM is horrible so his movie is full of lies…did I get it right?
never mind that the effect he wanted was to open eyes to the horrible health care conditions…
oh and the jackass that brought Edwards into this…just stupid
So those who haven’t seen the movie refuse to because it’s full of lies. Of course this is determined without having seen the movie. Hence they are not reliable sources of information as they have essentially said they make conclusions based upon a lack of knowledge.
So Paul, Fleety and Republican, you have all discredited yourselves once again.
“‘Sicko’ Shows Michael Moore’s Maturity as a Filmmaker”
Clearly a headline by a liberal news source. Such would be the beliefs of the neo-cons. However the review is from Fox News.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,273875,00.html
It’s amazing what happens when people actually watch the movie, unlike the neo-con nutjobs on this forum who have no need for facts.
I simply do not understand why certain people seem to think living in a socialist “utopian” society is so much better than our current republic?? Not everything is perfect in our country, obviously, but it seems every time I hear a complaint about something someone does not like, it ends up being a problem they think the government should have to solve, what the hell, if more people had the common sense ability to take care of themselves and their families, like they did when this country was formed, we would not be having this debate. Personal responsibility, wow, what a concept.
Hey doug… isntit fun to quote the repukes bible back to them????
hey there skippy,how would personal responsibility apply to the sad state of healthcare in America?
Has anyone here made an argument for a socialist utopia? It’s quite a leap to make that those who argue for universal health care are embracing the concept of a socialist utopia. Lovely strawman argument. The only ones to even mention utopia are the conservatives.
Better luck next time.
hey skibby..
trust me when I ay if there were any other way than to have the government than I would choose that but business is more currupt than the government, so ill say the gov is it…
the problem is the system is broken and a majority of the people in the us can’t afford individual health insurance and if a person doesn’t work for a larger corp, the likelly hood of that person getting good insurance is unlikely.
another thing is how the whole system is run… when my kids were born the total bill came to a half million bucks. the insurance company would only pay a quarter mil and the hospital wrote off a quarter mil. my point is that if I didn’t have insurance, I would have paid that cool half mil. how is that fair?
the insurance company only gets to pay half? how is that fair? this is only part of how the system is broken…
There was a good system before the government under Nixon ruined it (it’s in the film but don’t tell the neo-cons because they don’t like facts). Moore played Nixon’s recordings concerning the changing of HMOs from non-profit to for-profit. It was specifically discussed that higher profits would be made by denying people care.
Some reason the neo-cons think a system where a person pays for a service but doesn’t get any service in return is a working system that doesn’t need to be fixed. I would view it as criminal.
However, as we have seen from the neo-con responses they can’t address the issues. All we have heard is personal attacks against Moore and strawman arguments that we are arguing for a socialist utopia. It’s no wonder they don’t want to see the film, it’ll shatter the fragile escapist delusion they currently dwell in.
I guess I do not see the “sad state of healthcare in America”, if I or anyone I know, needs a doctor, they go to the office or clinic and get what they need and are taken care of, and oh, I may have to pay a fee, thats where the personal responsibility comes in, I do not depend on the government to take care of the tab for my medical care, nor do I expect them to pay any of my other expenses, that is called personal responsibility, which is why it is relevant, if you choose to have someone else take care of you, well……………
“It’s quite a leap to make that those who argue for universal health care are embracing the concept of a socialist utopia.”
It’s not a leap at all. It is merely a step.
Wow, leftists are STILL blaming Nixon for stuff??????????? Craziness!!
I’m glad you believe in personal responsibility. It’s nice that you transmitted that over the government created internet. Perhaps you drive to work on the government built roadways. Are you thirsty? Try some of that lovely government regulated water. Are you driving your own firetruck or are you relying on the government fire department in case of emergency?
Perhaps your personal responsibility is quite selective. Thankfully I live in a country filled with citizens and don’t think of myself as someone who occupies America but is completely separate from it. I would certainly hate to live in Skibby land, where ever you think that must be.
Fleety, have you taken a logic course before? When you do look up the slippery slope argument. However that would entail you getting facts and I know you have a phobia about that sort of thing.
Let’s check out some statistics of some of the “leading” health care nations placed up on a pedestal by Michael Moore. (CIA World Fact Book)
The rankings indicate the number of deaths per 1000 population and are ranked with the lower the number being worst and the higher the number being better.
Ranks 56Germany 10.71 deaths/1,000 population (2007 est.)
Rank 67United Kingdom 10.09 deaths/1,000 population (2007 est.)
Ranks 87Japan – 8.98 deaths/1,000 population (2007 est.)
Ranks 92France – 8.55 deaths/1,000 population (2007 est.)
Ranks 104U.S. – 8.26 deaths/1,000 population (2007 est.)
And last but not least, what some Liberals claim as the most dangerous place to live in the world, IRAQ.
Ranks 186Iraq 5.26 deaths/1,000 population (2007 est.)
Maybe Michael Moore should make a movie about Iraq and figure out what they are doing to have over 3 deaths per thousand population LESS THAN FRANCE!
Or FIVE LESS DEATHS PER THOUSAND THAN GERMANY!
Maybe it is the superior health care system in Iraq?
Or maybe Michael Moore just likes to put up numbers of inconvenience to scare people into thinking the U.S. Health Care System is broken?
I mean the number one touted Health Care System is France according to Michael Moore!
But, how come the U.S. has less deaths per thousand than France?
France can keep them healthy, but can’t keep them alive???
What’s up with that!!! :D
The July, 2000 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, attributes 250,000 deaths a year to doctors and pharmaceuticals with prescription drugs as the third leading cause of death in the US and iatrogenia (doctor mistakes) as the eighth.
Can a system be more broken?
Republican, that ranks the “best health care in the world” in the middle.
http://www.umsl.edu/services/govdocs/wofact2007/rankorder/2066rank.html
However Moore referenced the infant mortality rate:
http://www.umsl.edu/services/govdocs/wofact2007/rankorder/2091rank.html
In both cases Cuba does better. So when are you moving to Cuba Republican?
Perhaps Dougie, you do not realize that the government is there to supply us with those items, thats why we pay taxes, or at least some of us, they supply the infrastructure for everyone, roads, military, etc. obviously you would like them to control even more, my point is that the more you get them involved the closer we get to your wonderful free-loading society.
If you like Cuba move there. I like the freedom to what I wish and say what I like without being pulled before a Castro Firing Squad.
I’m sure we can count on Cuba for accurate figures right? I mean their health survey is done on the Politically Powerful and the wealthy elite. For some reason, the Cuban poor were not included in that survey.
Why is that Doug? Maybe it would tell the true story of what is going on in Cuba?
Besides Doug, you didn’t even read what I wrote.
France, your touted best health care in the World has a higher death rate per 1000 than the U.S.!
Michael Moore’s movie Sicko is a house of cards, ready to fall.
Sorry Republican, but I believe the death rate of ANY country is 1000 out of 1000. Your data by itself doesn’t mean anything. Perhaps you can tell us what your statistics represent?
happy,
Sorry, but that statistic is per year.
But in your own Liberal Simple minded way you are saying that 1000/1000 die per year then go ahead.
It’s your right to be a really ignorant mathematically challenged fool.
I forgot to read your mind and know exactly what those statistics represent. I keep reading what you posted and just find some vague numbers that still don’t have any reference point to anything.
Typical of you to be insulting and not the least bit civil.
Got your Doobie hat yet?
Libs = gimme gimme gimme
Again:
The July, 2000 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, attributes 250,000 deaths a year to doctors and pharmaceuticals with prescription drugs as the third leading cause of death in the US and iatrogenia (doctor mistakes) as the eighth.
Can a system be more broken?
They call those “rates” in the statistical world happy.
Just like a MPH sign on a highway is an indication of rate (65 mph.)
Michael Moore’s claim to 18,000 deaths of uninsured in the U.S.
What is that number? How significant is it compared to 2 million deaths per year from all causes in the U.S.?
How many of this 18,000 are the type that refuse medical care or are drug users or people who never want to see a Doctor if their life depended on it?
You do realize that some people won’t go to a Doctor if they are shooting out blood at both ends don’t you? I mean, they’ll take a Tylenol and will be all better in the morning.
How many of those 18,000 that died are people who are just too lazy to go down and get Medicare or Medicaid?
These misleading numbers my Michael Moore are just propaganda. He puts out numbers and doesn’t back them up etiology (causes.)
In other words, his numbers are a bunch of crap.
typical repuklican logic
fU to anyone but themselves
So, happy…what is the number for France, Great Britain, Canada on those pharmaceutical deaths?
No answer? No death rate per 1000 on pharmaceutical deaths.
Man, I was right, Libs are the ones who sat in the back of class during High School and got the “D’s.”
I don’t have those statistics. If you want them I’m sure you can find them.
If you want the number per thousand it is a simple math problem. I’m sure you are up to the challenge.
I’ll bet you’re wearing the Doobie hat I sent you right now!
Aren’t you tiger….grrrr!
Reported from exiled Cubans in Florida that the Health Care System in Cuba is from “PRE-SELECTED” candidates.
In other words, if you are poor, or a dissident or made someone in Castro’s regime mad at you for any reason, you don’t get health care and you don’t get counted in the system.
Of course, when foreigners come to Cuba to get treated, they get the best, while Pedro who is in a Sugar Cane Enslavement Camp gets squat for health care.
Yeah, Cuba Health Care – for the Libs, but not for the enslaved workers of Cuba.
Such a fair analysis by Michael Moore.
happy the “I don’t have those statistics.” Liberal is once again avoiding the reality of the situation.
Perhaps if happy the “I don’t have those statistics.” would concentrate a little more he could probably make some sort of sense. Ignore his wild rantings until then.
Republican
Do you not understand the CIA’s death rates you cited???
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/docs/notesanddefs.html“Death rate … This indicator is significantly affected by age distribution, and most countries will eventually show a rise in the overall death rate, in spite of continued decline in mortality at all ages, as declining fertility results in an aging population.”
Republican will NOW provide the “age distribution” stats of Iraq, France, U.S.A. etc..
We will be waiting… so provide them quickly.
I think he ran out to the mailbox to see if he got the Doobie hat I sent him!
Anyone else notice that Republican has ABSOLUTELY NO sense of humor?
Poor guy!
So cosmos, where is the break down of the 18,000 deaths of uninsured from Michael Moore?
Why don’t you analyze that?
Or cosmos, are you afraid you might find out the truth?
(bawk,bawk,bawk)
I ask that everyone say a prayer to the God(dess) of their choice (or even to the stone idol they may worship)…please take a moment to say a prayer for Republican, that he be given a SENSE OF HUMOR to balance the foul stench of his uncivil ways.
Glad you are using the word “doobie” happy since you didn’t know what it was when I first used it here.
Perhaps if happy the “I don’t have those statistics.” would concentrate a little more he could probably make some sort of sense. Ignore his wild rantings until then.
Republican, if you want all these statistics, look them up!
I originally “commented” that the statistics you cited without regard for what they meant, meant nothing.
Cosmos (by the way, I am not cosmos as you have wrongly accused me) cleared up the statistics you quoted with a single sentence.
Instead of being mean, you could have just as easily done the same.
What you can do:
http://www.sickocure.org/
http://pol.moveon.org/sicko/
Ah, happy’s feelings are hurt cause I was mean. He has never made any mean comments here right? :)
I know full well what Doobie means.
You, in your usual mean fashion sarcastically told someone to Google “doobie”. My posting the results of your suggestion showed that such searches did not always produce the desired result.
Perhaps if you sought a higher consciousness (or a sense of humor) you would be less hateful and more understanding.
cosmos spin on the statistical meaning of age distribution does not change the fact that death rates are higher in those so-called superior health care countries.
It’s called “spin” happy, and cosmos is a master at spin. He only puts out numbers and agrees with numbers that show his side.
A true scientist would show ALL Numbers.
Therefore, cosmos is not a true Scientist, but a pseudo one.
You have no ideas of my feelings Republican.
I have seen you post lies and I believe that you are a hypocrite for not following you ideology and going to Iraq to help establish Democracy there.
If that is mean then so be it.
Yeah, that’s it happy, go back to your rants about wanting a 50+year old disable vet to back to Iraq and serve. You did this on a daily basis.
You’re a worthless twit that no one cares about happy.
Republican,
“So cosmos, where is the break down of the 18,000 deaths of uninsured from Michael Moore?”
Do you have a severe reading problem, and/or mental disability? The “18,000 deaths” is NOT “from Michael Moore”.
Buy the book if you want to learn about it.
‘Insuring America’s Health: Principles and Recommendations’http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
Just like with Fahrenheit 9/11, false talking points are attacking the film.
Get the facts, such as “SiCKO: Canadian “wait times” not nearly as long as some try to allege”, info re Cuba, etc, at
‘CHECKUP ON THE FACTS’http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/
Watch the trailer, and get other info at links there.
Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:05 PM
Lying again Cosmos?
That’s your statement above which provides a link to Sicko’s Facts.
Here’s the direct quote.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”
That is from Michael Moore’s own Website on the facts of his movie.
I guess cosmos is just a liar.
Note cosmos, I will use that against you and repost to this post as much as you do when you call me a liar.
We will see how you like it eh? :)
What is really disgraceful is that people with out medical coverage, be medicare,medicaid, VA, or private insurance, get 0% discount on their billed medical charges, while all of the other above mentioned pay pennies on the dollar for medical charges! Talk about personal responsibility, the uninsured are personally responsible for the entire cost of care!
I was recently hospitalized for 29 days and the total bill came to $164,984.00. Now how in the hell am I supposed to come up with that kind of money? To you Republicans who tout the ‘personal responsibility’ claim, I would like to see you being hit with a hospital bill like mine.
And, no, I was not hospitalized due to my choice of lifestyle. I had an abscess in my abdomen and then had to have colon surgery because the abdomen formed a fistula and the fistula blew wide open! And then colon cancer was found to be in my colon. So this hospital bill is only the beginning of my bills. So, personal responsibility is all fine and dandy but when cancer hits someone, it is not that person’s fault or are you Republicans trying to say I caused my own cancer?
Republicans are the ones who are all for the current healthcare system because it is based on money. What a shame the most blessed nation on the face of planet cannot care enough about their citizens to give everyone an equal chance at health care.
Why be noble when a buck can be made by being greedy – right Republicans?
repuklicans care about no one but themselves
they will say its all your fault
I say a big FU to all of them
Republican,
“Maybe Michael Moore should make a movie about Iraq and figure out what they are doing to have over 3 deaths per thousand population LESS THAN FRANCE!…”cosmos spin on the statistical meaning of age distribution does not change the fact that death rates are higher in those so-called superior health care countries.”
Republican is STILL insisting that “age distribution” is insignificant???
‘Field Listing – Age structure’https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2010.html
Iraq:0-14 years: 39.4%65 years and over: 3%
France:0-14 years: 18.6%65 years and over: 16.2%
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/docs/notesanddefs.html“Death rate … This indicator is significantly affected by age distribution, and most countries will eventually show a rise in the overall death rate, in spite of continued decline in mortality at all ages, as declining fertility results in an aging population.”
fedup,
Very sad to hear about your health problem and expenses.
If you don’t mind me asking, when is the last time you had a Colorectal exam done prior to the surgery?
Did you have insurance and if you didn’t why not?
Are you aware of colon cancer in your family history?I have colorectal cancer in my family history and get regularly tested.
For more information on colorectal cancer:
http://www.ccalliance.org/about/screening/facts.html
I’m sorry people, you cannot believe cosmos because he is a liar. See what he wrote in his post:
“Do you have a severe reading problem, and/or mental disability? The “18,000 deaths” is NOT “from Michael Moore”.”
Earlier, cosmos posted this link to Michael Moore’s official Website:
‘CHECKUP ON THE FACTS’http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/
Watch the trailer, and get other info at links there.Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:05 PM
At that link (official Michael Moore’s Website) it states:
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”
So question everything that cosmos writes from now on, because he is a known liar and refuses to admit he is a liar.
repuklican
you are an idiot
go back and choke on some more BS from your savior Bush
no one buys your chit anymore
Critics don’t get paid to review books or movies they haven’t read or seen.
How many of you posting on this blog, that are critical of “Sicko”, actually went to a theater today and saw this documentary?
(CNN) — Michael Moore’s “Sicko,” which opened nationwide Friday, is filled with horror stories of people who are deprived of medical service because they can’t afford it or haven’t been able to navigate the murky waters of managed care in the United States.
A couple featured in Michael Moore’s “Sicko” leave a London hospital with their newborn.
It compares American health care with the universal coverage systems in Canada, France, the United Kingdom and Cuba.
Moore covers a lot of ground. Our team investigated some of the claims put forth in his film. We found that his numbers were mostly right, but his arguments could use a little more context. As we dug deep to uncover the numbers, we found surprisingly few inaccuracies in the film. In fact, most pundits or health-care experts we spoke to spent more time on errors of omission rather than disputing the actual claims in the film.
Whether it’s dollars spent, group coverage or Medicaid income cutoffs, health care goes hand in hand with numbers. Moore opens his film by giving these statistics, “Fifty million uninsured Americans … 18,000 people die because they are uninsured.”
For the most part, that’s true. The latest numbers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention say 43.6 million, or about 15 percent of Americans, were uninsured in 2006. For the past five years, the overall count has fluctuated between 41 million and 44 million people. According to the Institute of Medicine, 18,000 people do die each year mainly because they are less likely to receive screening and preventive care for chronic diseases.
Moore says that the U.S. spends more of its gross domestic product on health care than any other country.
Don’t missReview: “Sicko” a tonic despite flawsAgain, that’s true. The United States spends more than 15 percent of its GDP on health care — no other nation even comes close to that number. France spends about 11 percent, and Canadians spend 10 percent.
Like Moore, we also found that more money does not equal better care. Both the French and Canadian systems rank in the Top 10 of the world’s best health-care systems, according to the World Health Organization. The United States comes in at No. 37. The rankings are based on general health of the population, access, patient satisfaction and how the care’s paid for.
So, if Americans are paying so much and they’re not getting as good or as much care, where is all the money going? “Overhead for most private health insurance plans range between 10 percent to 30 percent,” says Deloitte health-care analyst Paul Keckley. Overhead includes profit and administrative costs.
“Compare that to Medicare, which only has an overhead rate of 1 percent. Medicare is an extremely efficient health-care delivery system,” says Mark Meaney, a health-care ethicist for the National Institute for Patient Rights.
Moore spends about half his film detailing the wonders and the benefits of the government-funded universal health-care systems in Canada, France, Cuba and the United Kingdom. He shows calm, content people in waiting rooms and people getting care in hospitals hassle free. People laugh and smile as he asks about billing departments and cost of stay.
Not surprisingly, it’s not that simple. In most other countries, there are quotas and planned waiting times. Everyone does have access to basic levels of care. That care plan is formulated by teams of government physicians and officials who determine what’s to be included in the universal basic coverage and how a specific condition is treated. If you want treatment outside of that standard plan, then you have to pay for it yourself.
Don’t missMayoClinic.com: Health LibraryHealthology Health Video Library”In most developed health systems in the world, 15 percent to 20 percent of the population buys medical services outside of the system of care run by the government. They do it through supplemental insurance, or they buy services out of pocket,” Keckley says.
The people who pay more tend to be in the upper income or have special, more complicated conditions.
Moore focuses on the private insurance companies and makes no mention of the U.S. government-funded health-care systems such as Medicare, Medicaid, the State Children’s Health Insurance Program and the Veterans Affairs health-care systems. About 50 percent of all health-care dollars spent in the United States flows through these government systems.
“Sicko” also ignores a handful of good things about the American system. Believe it or not, the United States does rank highest in the patient satisfaction category. Americans do have shorter wait times than everyone but Germans when it comes to non-emergency elective surgery such as hip replacements, cataract removal or knee repair.
That’s no surprise given the number of U.S. specialists. In U.S. medical schools, students training to become primary-care physicians have dwindled to 10 percent. The overwhelming majority choose far more profitable specialties in the medical field. In other countries, more than one out of three aspiring doctors chooses primary care in part because there’s less of an income gap with specialists. In those nations, becoming a specialist means making 30 percent more than a primary-care physician. In the United States, the gap is around 300 percent, according to Keckley.
As Americans continue to spend $2 trillion a year on health care, everyone agrees on one point: Things need to change, and it will take more than a movie to figure out how to get there.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/06/28/sicko.fact.check/index.html
Republican,
“Note cosmos, I will use that against you and repost to this post as much as you do when you call me a liar.”
Please do, like at 10:15 PM.
Then I’ll do a follow-up post asking why you’re UNABLE to understand that Moore, at http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/
was quoting the “roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States” ***FROM*** http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
cosmos appears to have left out the U.S. statistic in the ‘Field Listing – Age structure’”
cosmos posts this:France:0-14 years: 18.6%65 years and over: 16.2%
Please note that cosmos for apparent dishonest statistical methods completely leaves out the
15-64 years: 65.2% (male 20,798,889/female 20,763,283)
When comparing France to the U.S. the figures are:
U.S.:
0-14 years: 20.2% (male 31,152,050/female 29,777,438)15-64 years: 67.2% (male 100,995,752/female 101,365,035)65 years and over: 12.6% (male 15,858,477/female 21,991,195) (2007 est.)
France:0-14 years: 18.6% (male 6,063,181/female 5,776,272)15-64 years: 65.2% (male 20,798,889/female 20,763,283)65 years and over: 16.2% (male 4,274,290/female 6,038,011) (2007 est.)
Of course cosmos will leave out figures that doesn’t support his lies.
Check out more of his lies here:
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74521444
Republican,
Then I’ll do a follow-up post asking why you’re UNABLE to understand that Moore, at http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/
was quoting the “roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States” ***FROM*** http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
he will NEVER get it Cosmos
he is a Repuklican
they can’t think on their own
Note that cosmos is still trying to cover his lies by stating Michael Moore movie never stated “SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”==============cosmos writes:”"Do you have a severe reading problem, and/or mental disability? The “18,000 deaths” is NOT “from Michael Moore”.”==================When in fact, the Website implicitly states that the statement is in the movie:http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/
cosmos is a known liar and cannot be trusted.
For visual proof that cosmos is a liar about his statement go here:
It’s the very tiny thumbnail towards the bottom, it comes from Michael Moore’s official Website on the movie “SiCKO.”
http://republikan.typepad.com/republikansan/2007/06/michael-moores-.html
Republican,
(emphasis added)”Note that cosmos is still trying to cover his lies by stating Michael Moore movie never STATED “SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die…”
I did NOT claim that Moore did not “STATE” that.
I said it was *FROM* http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
Republican is so messed-up (to be very polite(cough)) that he does not understand the very large difference between “stating”, and “from”.
Also, Republican lied about the levee failures… and stole J M Walker’s nic.http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/open_thread_28.html#comment-71041282
cosmos writes:”"Do you have a severe reading problem, and/or mental disability? The “18,000 deaths” is NOT “from Michael Moore”.”=================I did NOT claim that Moore did not “STATE” that.
I said it was *FROM* http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
Republican is so messed-up (to be very polite(cough)) that he does not understand the very large difference between “stating”, and “from”. Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 11:01 PM
cosmos even lies about lying.
See the link below where the first statement in which cosmos lies about not being there is actually there.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/
cosmos is a known liar.
Cosmos is wrong… No, wait, Republican is wrong… No, wait, Republican is a liar… No, wait, Cosmos is liar… Good Grief!!!
Cosmos: Have you seen the movie??
Republican: Have YOU seen themovie??
I believe the proper quote had to do not with 18,000 deaths.. but “18,000 unnecessary deaths…”
Second: Republican, if you are as F’n smart as you seem to think you are, then What in God’s Name are you disabled from???
Seems to me that you would be capable of doing a TON of research work for SOMEbody, and get paid GOOD $$$$ for doing it…
And that is NOT a slam… per se
Cosmos claims this:”"Do you have a severe reading problem, and/or mental disability? The “18,000 deaths” is NOT “from Michael Moore”.”=================But earlier writes this:
Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM
cosmos has told so many lies he can’t keep track of them
cosmos is a known liar.
I’m a disable vet Chas and I won’t go into any details because the last time I did your Liberal friends mocked my description of it and claimed I was mooching off the government.
Nice people you hang around with.
Ask happy about his daily mantra of accusing me not supporting the Iraq war because I refused to go over to Iraq and fight.
Your Liberal friends just make up one lie after another and mock the Disable Vets of America like me.
That LINK Republican, has NOTHING to do with Moore’s movie… It is a direct quote from the IOM website – here:
“Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States. Although America leads the world in spending on health care, it is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage.” IOM Website….
NOWHERE is that Michael Moore, OR his movie… I guess Cosmos is NOT a liar after all…
1) Hey dude, if you’re 50+, then you have no business in Iraq…
2) You are a disabled VET, yes, and if my memory is correct, your disability is NOT from military service… So what?? Big deal??
3) My statement about you being able to work as a research assistant has nothing to do with your disability…
oh repuke
give it up
now since every post of yours is the same, you have made a mockery of no one but yourself
everyone know just skips right by your posts.
Chas,
Pay attention:
This line is in the movie and is quoted on SiCKO’s Website:
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”
Your memory in regard to my disability not being from Military Service is entirely incorrect. I was injured during the time frame of the first Gulf War and was on active duty. I was medically retired from the Military after the Gulf War.
Chas, even the State of Kansas won’t hire me because they would have to make accommodations. I’ve tried many times to get a job with the State of Kansas. They won’t even look at my application.
I suspect when they see disabled veteran, they ran as fast as they can away from my application.
I make close to what the bottom line of a teacher’s bottom salary is, I’m not suffering nor complaining.
Life expectancy is going UP nearly every year in the USA.
How can that happen if our health care system is so “bad’?
Also, read this:”Canadian systems rank in the Top 10 of the world’s best health-care systems, according to the World Health Organization. The United States comes in at No. 37. The rankings are based on general health of the population, access, patient satisfaction and how the care’s paid for.”
The above is from Sicko, and guess what?
The fact that the USA does NOT have a single payer plan, ALONE, puts the USA in a bad position in this BIASED WHO survey.
“How the care’s paid for”
????????????????
SCREW THE UN!
Who the hell are THEY to say we are inferior because we pay for it differently?
Again, what is the survival rate after diagnosis with Breast Cancer?What is the survival rate after diagnosis with lung cancer?What is the survival rate for those diagnosed with non-juvinile onset diabetes?
We have the best health care system in the world.
The liberals want to ruin it.
Liberals think it unfair that winos and drunks and junkies and hookers and other people dont have the same health insurance as corporate CEO’s.
Life insurance doesnt keep you alive.
Health insurance doesnt keep you healthy.
Health insurance has very little to do with ACCESS to health care.
Hate to tell you this, but the State of Kansas is the last place to look for job, especially in research assistant sort of things… Try some large private corps, like Koch, or Spirit Aviation, or Coleman, or one of the other BIGGIES in town… But dont go through there HR departments… Go through their corporate offices..
Repub… That quote I posted before, is direct from the website of IOM… THAT was the quote that Cosmos pasted a link for… I dont know what quote might be in Michael Moore’s movie… I havent seen it yet… So I dont know… Ummm Have YOU seen it yet??
Been there, done that Chas.
You just realize the prejudice there is on people seeking employment that are disabled. Wise up, it is for real.
I even paid for a job find twice. One of the last interviews I went on went like this. I’m sorry but your background and education doesn’t meet our needs. Hint: My education was almost identical to their needs.
Guess who got hired? A very cute blond female right out of college with no job experience and a totally unrelated degree.
No offense Chas, but I deal with realities and I have my own small business via the Web built through my own initiative.
I know all about the disabled job search thing… Been there and done that myself… I applied in a Telecomm outfit here last Fall, passed their nice little tests, and still got passed up for a college student, with virtually no experience… In fact, I have more years in my profession than the HR person was OLD… LOL… It is tough, but not impossible… I still know a few big shot CEO’s in this fair city… and how to contact them… But, I am sure you enjoy your web site business too…
Republican,
I’ll let the readers of this blog decide.
1) Is Moore responsible for this claim?
“So cosmos, where is the break down of the 18,000 deaths of uninsured *FROM* Michael Moore?”Posted by: Republican | June 30, 2007 at 09:30 PMhttp://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74519470
Or 2) is it “FROM” the Institute of Medicine of the National Academies?http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175“Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States. Although America leads the world in spending on health care, it is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage.”
Then… they can read Republican’s lies about the levee failures… and his stealing J M Walker’s nic.http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/open_thread_28.html#comment-71041282
Cosmos, I still dont have an answer from you or Repub… Have either of you seen the Moore movie??? Just curious…
Chas for the last time:
That quote is from
MICHAEL MOORE’S OFFICIAL SiCKO WEBSITE and IT EMPHATICALLY IMPLIES THE COMMENT IS FROM THE MOVIE.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/
No Chas, I haven’t seen the movie. I don’t support people like Michael Moore who makes movies from lies and incomplete facts.
Besides, there are no seats in a Movie theater for me and I don’t feel like bringing my own chair.
Cosmos claims this:”"Do you have a severe reading problem, and/or mental disability? The “18,000 deaths” is NOT “from Michael Moore”.”=================But earlier writes this:
Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM
cosmos has told so many lies he can’t keep track of them
cosmos is a known liar.
Posted by: Republican | June 30, 2007 at 11:12 PM
OK Repub — HERE is the FULL Quote from Michael Moore’s site:
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.
According to the Institute of Medicine, “lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States. Although America leads the world in spending on health care, it is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage.” Insuring America’s Health: Principles and Recommendations, Institute of Medicine, January 2004.”
IF it is in the movie, then it is a direct, referenced quote, from the IOM Article…
Now, does that make everybody happy??? Cosmos quote, and THIS quote, that You, sir, only used ONE LINE of from the Moore site, are IDENTICAL!!!
So, it isnt a claim made by Moore, but rather, Moore quoting from the IOM Article, 2004…
I think that should pretty much put this particular matter to rest.
repuke
you claim to be all for self-sufficency but then you cry about how mean people are to you…Buck up or shut up
secondly, even your god station faux noise says SICKO is accurate
so
once again, you are shown to be the putz you are
Leave: Earlier today, I made comment on here that the ONLY reviews I have seen on TV about this Moore film have been from right wing commentators… including FOX… And ALL of them said, with some degree of shock, that Moore’s movie was a NON Political movie… It was about Health Care Systems….
I dont personally recall FOX saying it was “accurate” — but I heard that comment from one of the right wing radio commentators yesterday afternoon… also with a degree of shock!!
That’s right Chas, the one line used at the SiCKO Website is the one used in the movie. Movies don’t have hyperlinks and Michael Moore makes no attempt to qualify any statement in his movie with references.
Well, sir, since you havent SEEN the movie, but you have read the web site where it is explicitly quoted from IOM, then it still looks like Cosmos was not wrong after all… What I find a bit strange, is that O’Reilly said yesterday on the Radio show, that Moore’s claims were mostly accurately backed up…
Republican,
“That quote is from
MICHAEL MOORE’S OFFICIAL SiCKO WEBSITE and IT EMPHATICALLY IMPLIES THE COMMENT IS FROM THE MOVIE.”
Caps Lock meltdown time?
The movie “makes” the “comment”. The “comment” is “FROM”,
‘Insuring America’s Health: Principles and Recommendations’http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
And Republican lied about the New Orleans levee failures… and stole J M Walker’s nic.http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/open_thread_28.html#comment-71041282
Cosmos claims this:”"Do you have a severe reading problem, and/or mental disability? The “18,000 deaths” is NOT “from Michael Moore”.”=================But earlier writes this:
Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM
See the above line here:http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/
cosmos has told so many lies he can’t keep track of them
cosmos is a known liar.
Posted by: Republican | June 30, 2007 at 11:12 PM
Posted by: Republican | June 30, 2007 at 11:42 PM
repuke
a one horse gutless wonder
too stupid to realize it
OK… How many times are you going to post that same thing Repub??? And how many times do I have to go post the REAL quote from IOM… NOT from the friggin MOVIE!!! Apparently Moore Quotes FROM IOM in the movie, if I read it right in the last review I found on my desk….. SO… I think its time to put this entire matter to rest….
Neither one of you lied… BUT, neither one of you demanded the link up to disprove the other…
Now, Cosmos??? Have YOU SEEN the movie?? I am only curious… I have not seen it, and neither has Repub…
Sorry for the delay, but I had to find my black and white striped T Shirt LOL
“Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States.”From the Institute of Medicine of the National Academieshttp://www.iom.edu/?id=19175============================From Michael Moore’s Official Sicko Website:
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”
http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/=======================cosmos even quotes from the SiCKO Website NOT the Institute of Medicine Website!
“Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM========================
cosmos repeated claim that his quote is not from the SiCKO Website is false. It’s right there in black and white. SiCKO Film Maker Michael Moore rephrased in his own words and for cosmos to deny that it is a line from the SiCKO Website and movie is an out and out lie.
cosmos is a known liar and continues to lie.
REPUB — SIR — I already posted the FULL QUOTE — once from Moore, and once from IOM… They are the EXACT SAME QUOTE!!! Cosmos just listed the first LINE of the quote!!! Are you blind tonite, are are you just playing DUMB???
And, that does NOT constitute a LIE… it only means you didnt follow HIS link… and read the exact same quote that YOU want to post from!!!
Republican,
Please keep posting your lies about me being a liar, when you have been proven to be a LIAR, (multiple times).
I’ve got http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
WHERE are your Congress and the Justice Dept sources re the levee failures???http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/open_thread_28.html#comment-71041282
Chas,
I haven’t seen it yet, but I assume the web site is accurate.
Perhaps Republican will go see it, to proof me wrong? :) :)
And it’s past time to “just walk on by….”
What part of the following did you not understand Chas?
“Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM
Now tell me Chas, is that PARTICULAR STATEMENT MADE BY MICHAEL MOORE ON HIS OFFICIAL WEBSITE OR NOT?
cosmos denies that it is and therefore a liar.
He claims that PARTICULAR STATEMENT comes from another Website WHEN IN FACT IT DOES NOT.===========cosmos posts:
“The movie “makes” the “comment”. The “comment” is “FROM”,
‘Insuring America’s Health: Principles and Recommendations’http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175=============
That is the source of the comment, that is not the comment itself.
cosmos lies yet again.
And now you know Chas, why I will repost this over and over in cross threads because this is what cosmos does to me daily. I will find more of his lies and post them as well.
See if likes being called a liar on a daily basis.
That statement is made on Michael Moore’s website… AS A PART OF A QUOTATION FROM THE IOM ARTICLE… GO READ IT FOR YOURSELF, AND STOP CALLING COSMOS A LIAR, BECAUSE YOU ARENT WILLING TO UNDERSTAND THAT MOORE IS NOT MAKING THAT STATEMENT… JUST QUOTING IT FROM ANOTHER SOURCE!!!!
WAKE UP DAMMIT!!!
I dont care much WHAT he does to you… You are just being obnoxious about it!!! Get over it!!! MOORE did not make that statement… He QUOTED the damn statement!!! Geez!!!
Look in the Congressional Record cosmos, not the Sierra Club. And look at Justice Department reports.This is the statement I made that cosmos is upset about.
“You will find that the Army Corp of Engineers had to delay projects and subsequently lost the funding for those projects for those Fiscal years.
The truth hurts when told, the Sierra Club screwed the Levees in New Orleans.”
cosmos refuses to look in the Congressional Record to find out the truth.
WRONG Repub… That LINK you used AGAIN IS the statement… it is from IOM… not Michael Moore… MOORE merely QUOTES the IOM statement on his web site!!!!
Chas,
Show me where this EXACT statement is from the Institute of Medicine of the National Academies.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”
DAMMIT Repub…. You just listed the friggin LINK…. GO READ IT!!!! That statement you list from “Sicko” is the first line of the damned IOM article!!!!
Again Chas, you defend your Liberal friends regardless of the consequence, even though they might call me a liar daily.
You can have them Chas.
What a piss poor example of a Preacher you are.
Besides, I already posted BOTH article quotes upthread a LONG time ago… did you forget???
Heyk, I am not responsible for what THEY DO… and here we go again… YOU are wrong, so you want to attack MY profession AGAIN… which YOU DO every dammed day on herre… So, what the hell is the friggin difference if somebody does it to you, or YOU do it to others??? Huh???
GROW UP DAMMIT!!!!!
Chas, you’re an idiot.
This is the first line from the SiCKO Website:
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”
This is the first line from the Institute of Medicine of the National Academies.
“Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States.”
Either you are blind are an insanely biased Liberal butt kisser.
Swear some more mook. Show everyone want a good Christian (cough) preacher does.
AND FOR THAT MATTER, WHAT THE HELL DOES ANYTHING I POST ON HERE HAVE TO DO WITH MY PROFESSION, UNLESS I AM POSTING ABOUT MY PROFESSION??? AND WHO OR WHAT SET YOU UP AS YOUR OWN LITTLE PRIVATE JUDGE AND JURY… LOOK, JUST BECAUSE YOUR CHAIR AND YOU CANT GET EVERYWHERE YOU MIGHT LIKE, DONT USE YOUR OWN ANGER ON LIFE AGAINST OTHERS!!! I AM ONLY ONE AMONG MANY WHO HAVE JUST ABOUT HAD IT WITH EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING YOU CHOOSE TO POST ON HERE…. COSMOS IS NOT A LIAR…. YOU ARE, HOWEVER, MOST OBNOXIOUS!!!!
REMEMBER… YOU DONT KNOW ME, AND I DONT KNOW YOU…. EXCEPT FOR WHAT IS TYPED HERE…. IF YOU EXPECT ME TO DEFEND MY PROFESSION AGAINST YOUR LOUSY PROTESTS, FORGET IT… I DONT HAVE TO DEFEND MY PROFESSION AGAINST ANYBODY FOR ANY REASON!! NO MORE THAN YOU NEED TO DEFEND YOUR DISABILITY TO ANYBODY FOR ANY REASON…
YOU SIR, ARE THE BLIND ONE… AND IF I CHOOSE TO SAY DAMN, I WILL SAY IT WHEN AND WHERE I CHOOSE TO… THAT IS NOT A PART OF MY PROFESSION… SHOWS HOW LITTLE YOU KNOW ABOUT CLERGY… ONCE AGAIN, YOU KNOW NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF GARBAGE!!!
LOOK… MOORE QUOTES FROM THE DAMNED IOM ARTICLE… THEY ARE IDENTICAL QUOTES, AND IF YOU CANT READ THAT WITH YOUR OWN TWO EYES, THEN GO GET YOUR GLASSES FIXED, OR IF YOU DONT WEAR ANY, TRY SOME!!!
AND YES, MY CAPS ARE STUCK… I DONT KNOW WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE KEYBOARD…. SORRY BOUT THAT…
BUT, I AM QUITE DONE WITH YOUR STUPIDITY FOR YET ANOTHER NITE…. SLEEP WELL, SIR….
“DAMMIT Repub…. You just listed the friggin LINK…. GO READ IT!!!! That statement you list from “Sicko” is the first line of the damned IOM article!!!!”
Posted by: Chas. | July 01, 2007 at 12:54 AM
So Chas, show me where this EXACT statement is listed in the Institute of Medicine of the National Academies.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”
I’ll even provide the link for you. http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
The EXACT statement mind you, nothing else will do.
You can’t can you?
My point is proven.
NOW GO READ THE LINE IN THE IOM ARTICLE THAT SAYS THE SAME AS THE FIRST ONE YOU QUOTED… THEN APOLOGIZE TO COSMOS… AND STOP CALLING ME AN IDIOT!!! THAT IS THE ONLY REAL SWEARING ON HERE PRESENTLY…. IT IS CALLED BEARING FALSE WITNESS….
Enjoy your dreams of kissing cosmos’ butt. :)
OK YOU BLIND BAT… HERE IS THE QUOTE FROM IOM… THE SAME ONE I POSTED LONG AGO UPTHREAD…
“Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States. Although America leads the world in spending on health care, it is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage.”
NOW, IF YOU CANT FIGURE OUT “LACK OF HEALTH INSURANCE” THEN YOU HAVE A SERIOUS READING COMPREHENSION PROBLEM….
BTW, YOU DONT WANT TO MESS WITH FOLKS WHO HAVE NEARLY 100% RECALL ON READING COMPREHENSION…
cosmos quotes that this EXACT quote is from this source when it is not.
“Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM
That quote is from Michael Moore’s Official SiCKO Website at :http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/
Even the most stupid person in the World can see cosmos assigned the wrong quote to the wrong Website.
In other words, cosmos lied.
ChasI think you are the one who is loosing it, after reading all the posts.
100% RECALL ON READING COMPREHENSION…
Posted by: Chas. | July 01, 2007 at 01:10 AM
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO HE DIDNT… HERE IS THE EXACT QUOTE FROM MICHAEL MOORE’S WEB SITE…>>>> READ IT AND WEEP, SIR….
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.
According to the Institute of Medicine, “lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States. Although America leads the world in spending on health care, it is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage.” Insuring America’s Health: Principles and Recommendations, Institute of Medicine, January 2004.
TRY USING FULL QUOTES, INSTEAD OF JUST THE LINES YOU CHOOSE…
The World Health Organization “Rankings” can NOT be used as a guide to deciding between government run versus private health insurance plans.
The WHO survey gives POINTS to the government run plans of other countries.
Therefore, the WHO ratings are BIASED in favor of government run plans and biased AGAINST the American System.
Take out the “weighting” for “how service is paid for” and tell me what the “ranking” of the USA is then!
Republican, it’s funny how you don’t know anything about statistics. Is there a direct connection between the death rate and health care? Nope. The death rate is not related to the health care in countries. France has an median older population than the United States. You know what happens when a population gets older? Yeah, people tend to die of old age and that causes the death rate to go up.
Try not to spread more lies Republican. Either you are dishonest or you are as knowledgeable about statistics as you are health care.
TRY USING FULL QUOTES, INSTEAD OF JUST THE LINES YOU CHOOSE…
Posted by: Chas. | July 01, 2007 at 01:14 AM
Tell that to cosmos, as he wrote this:
“Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM
Plus, he attributed the SiCKO comment alone to the http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
which it is definitely not.
YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT ECON… HOWEVER, I AM SURE THERE ARE WAYS TO QUANTIFY RATINGS BASED ON FIGURES FROM EACH OF THE NATIONS YOU WANT TO FIND… OR, USE THE WHO RANKINGS ON THE USA FIGURES, AND COMPARE THE BALANCE THEN…
UMMMM WHY NOT??? MICHAEL MOORE LISTS THAT LINK IN HIS WEB SITE… DO I HAVE TO REPOST THE QUOTE ONE MORE TIME FOR YOU???
SICKO USES THE IOM ARTICLE TO BACK UP WHAT IS SAID… WHICH IS THE SAME DAMN THING… ONLY THEY ADD A WHOLE LOT MORE TO IT!!!
That all you got Doug? Where is your Epidemiology Degree? Let’s see it?
Oh, you are just an authority on disputing what I write correct ? Can’t back it up because you have no statistical or Epidemiological Degree?
Read where I compared the two populations of France and the U.S., then come back and make a detailed analysis of what you think.
You won’t do it will you Doug.
You just write trash and claim it is true.
Pathetic.
MOORE SAYS THAT 18,000 PEOPLE DIED BECAUSE OF A LACK OF INSURANCE… IOM SAYS 18,000 PEOPLE DIED UNNECESSARY DEATHS BECAUSE OF A LACK OF INSURANCE…
AND YOU WANT TO CALL THOSE DIFFERENCES SOMEHOW A LIE??? THEY BOTH SAY THE SAME DAMNED THING!!! WAKE UP NOW REPUB!!! TIME TO QUIT DREAMING!!!
One more time Chas, for the slow witted. This is what cosmos wrote:
He attributed the SiCKO comment to the http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175.
I challenge you with a $5000.00 bet to find the following comment athttp://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”
It’s put up or shut up time now Chas. :)
UMMM PARDON ME, EXCUSE ME, DOUG DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE POSTING ON THIS THREAD…. DID YOU GET THEM MIXED UP, OR WHAT???
Republican,
“cosmos refuses to look in the Congressional Record to find out the truth.”
IF it was in the C.R., you would’ve posted it. It’s NOT there, so you posted lies instead.———
Chas,
Just walk on by…
Repuke’s original question, and my reply is at,http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74520272
Now he’s nit-picking, and wasting your time on the “EXACT statement” — because he’s a liar, and a loser.
Republican: “Show me where this EXACT statement is from the Institute of Medicine of the National Academies.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”
YES, I KNOW HE DID… BECAUSE THAT IS THE QUOTE THAT MICHAEL MOORE USES ON HIS WEB SITE… GO AND LOOK AT IT FOR YOURSELF….
You wrote this didn’t you cosmos and attributed the wrong quote to the wrong Website.
“Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM
Case closed.
COSMOS, SORRY, MY CAPS WONT COME UNSTUCK… HELP!!! ANY SUGGESTIONS???
Republican, if you have been classified by the military as disabled, but you are still able to work then I assume you are about what 50% or less disabled?
If you lost out on a job to a person who was less qualified than you because you are disabled, you should have sued instead of whining about it. Maybe you’re just making excuses as to why you didn’t get the job. Experience isn’t the only thing an employer looks at.
If you can’t go to a movie theater because they don’t have a chair for you and you don’t want to bring your own than are you in a wheel chair or do you weigh over 400 lbs. I know they have places in the theaters for wheel chairs.
You just sound like a person who likes to whine and make excuses.
“UMMM PARDON ME, EXCUSE ME, DOUG DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE POSTING ON THIS THREAD…. DID YOU GET THEM MIXED UP, OR WHAT???”
Posted by: Chas. | July 01, 2007 at 01:24 AM
Chas you are truly insane.Read his comments here in this thread topic.Posted by: Doug | July 01, 2007 at 01:16 AM http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74528258
Or is that part of your total recall of reading comprehension Chas?
You just sound like a person who likes to whine and make excuses.
Posted by: Real Disabled Person | July 01, 2007 at 01:29 AM
Oh thank you very much for your compassion. And I doubt you are a real disabled person or you would know what I’m talking about.
And no I don’t weigh 400 pounds about half of that at six foot four.
You don’t think military get 100 percent disability? What planet are you from?
Take a hike, you have no clue what you are talking about.
OK REPUB… THIS QUOTE IS FROM WHAT COSMOS POSTED EARLIER:
“Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.”
THAT QUOTE IS NOT FROM THE SICKO WEBSITE, NOR DOES IT CLAIM TO BE… COSMOS QUOTE FROM SICKO IS IN ITS OWN QUOTATION MARKS…
NOW WHO IS THE LIAR???
SORRY ABOUT THE DOUG QUOTE… I DIDNT SEE IT… AND I SAID NEARLY 100% RECALL, NOT TOTAL RECALL… AND I SAID COMPREHENSION, NOT EXACT WORDS.. HUGE DIFFERENCE, SIR…
“Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175“
Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74496860
That’s because, clueless Chas it is cosmos own sentence.=========================If you will do the following:
(1) Click the link provided above(2) Carefully examine the statement “Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.”(3) Realize that the above statement has no quotes (”) around it and is a statement made by cosmos.(4) Then thunk yourself in the head and realize what an ass Chas has made of himself tonight.
:)
YEA, DOPE, I JUST SAID THAT… THE FIRST STATEMENT WAS COSMOS COMMENT ON THE MICHAEL MOORE QUOTE… COMMENTARY.. AND FURTHER MORE, IT IS A TRUE STATEMENT BASED ON MOORE’S QUOTE, AND ON THE IOM ARTICLE…
YOU WONT HEAR ANYTHING FROM THESE 18,000 AMERICANS…. WHY??? BECAUSE 18,000 OF THEM WILL DIE OF UNNECESSARY CAUSES BECAUSE OF LACK OF INSURANCE….
NOW DO YOU GET IT???
I AM NOT CALLING YOU A LIAR… I AM ONLY SAYING YOU WRONGLY INTERPRETED WHAT YOU READ, AND WENT OF ON ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR TANGENTS!!!
Republican,
At 1:57 PM, I pasted the SOURCE of the quote from Moore’s site below the quote, for REFERENCE.
And at 2:36 PM, clarified the 18,000 deaths,http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74499042
Republican falsely attacked me at 9:30 PMhttp://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74519470
Republican at 3:53 PM: “Notice how cosmos glosses over the fact that 25 percent more die in Britain due to Breast Cancer and 67 percent with prostate Cancer.”
I’m STILL waiting for the answer to my 4:36 PM question…WHEN were those “facts”? Before, or after Britian reduced the wait time?
Chas,
Just walk on by…
WHY DO I SIT HERE AND ARGUE WITH THIS KIND OF STUPIDITY?? I JUST WANT REPUB TO UNDERSTAND THE STATEMENT THAT WAS MADE AS A COMMENTARY TO TWO QUOTES…. GEEZ… THAT IS NOT CLUELESS, REPUB… THAT IS READING AND COMPREHENDING WHAT IS BEING SAID BY THE POSTER… YOU MIGHT TRY IT SOMETIME, IT REALLY WORKS!!!
I didn’t wrong interpret anything Chas.
cosmos assigned the wrong quote to the wrong Webpage.
It is right there in plain view.
Again, I challenge you with a $5000.00 bet to find the following statement:
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”
at this Website:
http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175============================
Then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Examine cosmos statement:
“Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175“
Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM====================
It is very, extremely, absolutely clear that he assigned the SiCKO quote to http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175“
===========================and then he denies it here:
“Do you have a severe reading problem, and/or mental disability? The “18,000 deaths” is NOT “from Michael Moore”.”=============================
When in fact, he took the one line from Michael Moore’s Website and attributed it to http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175“=====================
Case closed once again.
Oh and about the bet Chas -
(bawk, bawk, bawk)
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74526948
Whew finally got the caps to stop sticking… I leave tonite with a thought I posted earlier in the day… Whatever our individual politics might be, Health Care, and Health Cre Issues are a WHOLE lot higher level than politics can ascend…
May people finally put politics away long enough to find the necessary fixes that are needed to fix our Health Care System… Whether it is some form of Universal Health Care, or some modification of the system we already have…
THEN, we can say that our government is in the rightful business of serving our people!!!
Good Night, and Good Luck!!Oh, and its Sunday, too.. God Bless… whatever you conceive of God to be!!
DAMN, Repub, He did NOT attribute HIS commentary line to the IOM web site, or to Michael Moore’s web site…
That was his LEAD into quoting the other two web sites… If you cant see that, then God help us all!!
BTW, I didnt take the bet… so, bawk, bawk, bawk, right back at ya!!!
“Health Care, and Health Cre Issues are a WHOLE lot higher level than politics can ascend…”Posted by: Chas. | July 01, 2007 at 01:58 AM
Sure it is Chas…
That’s why Michael Moore choose to release this film just prior an election year.
Just wait and see how many of your Political Left will run on the “Michael Moore” platform.
They tried this before on Fahrenheit 911, but as it turns out, every false issue presented in that movie was shot down in flames (pun intended.)
Well, I am glad that you understand that Cosmos rightly identified the Moore quote to the IOM article… since thats exactly where Moore took it from… See, youre getting there now… NOW, get it through your head, That first line, his LEAD line, if you will, is his commentary about why you wont hear about those 18,000 people anymore… Because they are DEAD!!!!
Duh!!!
“You don’t think military get 100 percent disability? What planet are you from?”
I know the military can rate a person 100% disabled or 10% disabled, it all depends on your injury, or in your case your that self infliction wound to your brain.
“Oh thank you very much for your compassion. And I doubt you are a real disabled person or you would know what I’m talking about.”
I have compassion for people who have compassion for others and you sir do not.
First, it isnt the Michael Moore platform… Second, at least half of the Democratic contenders already share a majority of those views, and have for a number of years… They dont NEED to jump on Michael Moore’s movie!!
DAMN, Repub, He did NOT attribute “HIS commentary line to the IOM web site, or to Michael Moore’s web site…
That was his LEAD into quoting the other two web sites… If you cant see that, then God help us all!!”
Posted by: Chas. | July 01, 2007 at 01:59 AM
Then God better start helping Chas, as you can plainly see I posted the entire quote below.
Nowhere are the ANY LEAD INS to any subsequent Websites.
Start Praying Chas, you are going to need it.
“Republican,
“I can hear all the bleating from the sheeple now …
baaaa, baaaaaaa, baaaaaaa…”
Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175“
Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM=====================
The misquote and lie above posted by cosmos.
“I have compassion for people who have compassion for others and you sir do not.”
Posted by: Really Really Disabled | July 01, 2007 at 02:05 AM
Yeah right Whistle Britches…
You know everything there is to know about me by reading what is here in this Blog.
You’re just another clueless wannabe living somewhere out in La La land.
Come back when you actually have something significant to say.
You will come back won’t you? :)
Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.
THAT is Cosmos Lead Line… Got that??? It introduces his posting of the next LINK… Got it now??? It is staring you in the face, and you still cant SEE it!!! Geez!!!
THIS is Michael Moore’s claim in the movie:
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”
THIS is the LINK Michael Moore gives to back up his claim:
http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175“
“That was his LEAD into quoting the other two web sites… If you cant see that, then God help us all!!”
Posted by: Chas. | July 01, 2007 at 01:59 AM
Okay Chas, point out the two Websites in cosmos statement here.
“Republican,
“I can hear all the bleating from the sheeple now …
baaaa, baaaaaaa, baaaaaaa…”
Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175“
Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM
I see one quote
Do you see two quotes Chas?
Have you had your meds tonight Chas?
I mean, you didn’t even see that Doug had posted and accused me of making it up that Doug had indeed posted.
You Chas, are a train wreck.
NOW THEN… where did Cosmos LIE?? YOU sir, are the well hewn, well versed liar here on this thread… But, I doubt you will see it, even after I take it for you step by friggin step….
So, Good Night, Good Luck, and God Bless… whatever you conceive of God to be…
Good grief, idiot… Upthread, cosmos listed the IOM link TWICE… once after the SiCKO quote, and once after that to show it came from IOM… My meds are doing fine… I was just wondering about yours!! You are even trying to Misquote your OWN quotes now!!! Duh!!
The blind as a bat and clueless Chas has left the building. I dub him Mr. Magoo.
Furthermore, I did not accuse you of making up a posting by Doug… If you must know, I thought maybe you had done what many folks do from time to time, post one thought, on a different Thread… I made NO accusation of you making anything up regarding Doug’s posting… I already said I didnt SEE IT!!
Yep, NOW we know Mr. RepubliKhan is wrong, when he starts in with personal lies and attacks!!
“You are even trying to Misquote your OWN quotes now!!! Duh!!”
Posted by: Chas. | July 01, 2007 at 02:18 AM
====
Oh really Chas? Read cosmos quote here and eat crow.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74496860
You know, lots of folks who spell their name with a khan, are Islamic… And we all know that some Islamic folks are terrorists… Hmmmm could make one wonder… Republikhan…. could have a nice Islamic ring to it… ROFL
Nope, I am not reading any more of your senseless useless links… I have shown you where you made your mistake… If you cant see it, not my problem… I am outta here… Have a good nite!!
Your mistake was entering into an argument you could not possibly win, because you were wrong on your assumption and continued with by being the apologetic butt kisser for cosmos.
May I recommend some chapstick if you continue with your new profession.
Just as I thought, same friggin quote I have been trying all night to get you to see… And it still doesnt make cosmos a liar… Nor does it make YOU one… Your gross error here is to mis-interpret what you thought you read(like I missed Doug’s post), and you just cant stand admitting that you didnt read it right!!!
Not my problem… I just hope that doesnt happen to you if you ever go to sign a contract somewhere and read IT wrong!!
nite now Republikhan ROFL!!!
cosmos lies here;
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74527432
Oh, by the way, there ARE two websites there… The first one is from Michael Moore’s website… The second one is the LINK to the IOM web site, that backs up what Moore says…
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM
Now tell me Chas, is that PARTICULAR STATEMENT MADE BY MICHAEL MOORE ON HIS OFFICIAL WEBSITE OR NOT?
YES, Khan… it IS on Michael Moore’s official web site!!!LMAO!!!
Cosmos just simply did NOT LIE there… YOU sir, are simply reading it wrong!!!
Poooof!!! Gone!!!
cosmos’ lie:
“Republican,
“I can hear all the bleating from the sheeple now …
baaaa, baaaaaaa, baaaaaaa…”
Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175“
Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM
The above *exact* SiCKO quote cannot be found anywhere on the link cosmos uses.
cosmos is a liar.
Just minutes ago, you asked THIS question..”SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM
Now tell me Chas, is that PARTICULAR STATEMENT MADE BY MICHAEL MOORE ON HIS OFFICIAL WEBSITE OR NOT?
NOW you want to know about the IOM link… make up your friggin mind, idiot!! better yet, go to bed!!!
as would be said in a court room… Asked and answered, move on
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74526948
cosmos is a liar and frequently omits data to make his data appear accurate as he did here:
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74522132
cosmos is a liar and frequently omits information that proves his statements wrong.
You got some kind of obcessed crush on Cosmos or something?? You are too weird for me tonite!!
just go to bed… you goofed, and you cant admit it… so, just take your software and go nite nite!!
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74522132
cosmos is a liar and frequently omits information that proves his statements wrong.
Come back when you actually have something significant to say.
You will come back won’t you? :)
Hey Republican I’m back!!!!
“Guess who got hired? A very cute blond female right out of college with no job experience and a totally unrelated degree.”
Sounds like a cop out to me. Doing a little whining there fellow?
So what is your disability RRDisabled?
You appear to be healthy enough to post at 0321 am in the morning. Must not be in pain 24/7 like me eh? :)
“So what is your disability RRDisabled”
I’m addicted to Weblog!!!!!!
Why are you wasting time arguing with Repuke? he’s a known/proven liar, nic switcher/nic stealer.
I would design a universal system based on a public private system. Soething like where you (or your insurance) would be responsible for the first $XXXX of your medical expenses in a 12 month period and the universal system would pay after that deductible is meant. Also it would pay for 1 physical exam per year and a mammogram or colon exam. The amount of your deductible would be set on the lifestyle you live and the results of your physical. For example:1. No physical exam done $10,0002. Body Mass Index 20% over norm $3000.3. Cigarette Smoker $50004. Marijuana Smoker $20005. Other drugs $30005. High colesteral level $30006. Normal colesterol, weight and no cigarettes or drugs $500
This way the national system would cover you for catastrophic illnesses but also require YOU to take personal responsibility for your health care.
Another thing that should be done to lower health care cost is to BAN prescription drug advertising. This adds LOTS of cost to drugs.
Good Grief, There could be a double amputee on here, and somehow repuke would find a way to poke fun at them, and find a wasy to be MUCH worse off!!!
The Khan is IMpossible!!!
“My wife had occasion to get an ambulance ride a few years ago. We had to pay $500 out of pocket becuase Sedgwick County EMS was the wrong provider.
IN FACT, our coverage, THROUGH THE STATE OF KANSAS, had no EMT provider at all in Sedgwick County!!!!!!!!! To be properly covered she would have had to look up the provider in Harvey County and had them come down here to take her to Via Christi 10 minutes away.
“If we can afford to kill people, we can afford to help them.”
Chas, Econ 101, Kev, et al, please back up the statement that 18,000 people this year will die without healthcare. If we totaled all the numbers of people predicted to die with whatever disease, accident, murder, etc. the population of the US would be a negative number. Does the quote of 18,000 dying without health insurance mean they will die for lack of insurance, or they will die anyway and simply chose not to pay for insurance? Example: the gang banger who is only expecting to live to the age of 20 because he chooses to spend his money on drugs/drinks and “grill work” for his teeth. Or how about all the people who have grown up in the projects with government assistance as their insurance. They turn 18 and have to actually purchase insurance. That is highly unlikely as they have already learned the entitlement mentality. The hospital cannot refuse to treat and these people know it. Therefore, why spend their drug/alcohol money on insurance?Secondly, some questions re: government controlled healthcare. Yes, people you are advocating turning your choices over to the government to choose for you. Ever wonder why the government is interested in providing healthcare for all? How about the fact that it is a multi billion dollar industry. How about the POWER of control over everyone. OK, here are some questions:
Who will be providing the healthcare? Doctors? Specialists? Nurses? CNAs?
Can you choose which provider you see? Maybe you want a female OB/GYN, rather than a male. Perhaps you feel the PA is unqualified to diagnose what you suspect to be a GI tumor.
What can be done about hypochondriacs who take up permanent residence in the clinic, and take more than their fair share of appointment time?
Are you going to suddenly develop loads of patience when the hospital is clogged with the glut of people who wrongly assume that healthcare is now “free” and come in for their corns and infected pierced eyebrow?
Will cosmetic surgery be included in the universal coverage? Some people will have damaged self-esteem if they can’t get their fine lines minimized or their tummys tucked.
What about reconstructive surgery for those who are disfigured? After an accident in which ones face is rearranged by a steering wheel and windshield, competent medical help is required immediately, not 8 weeks later.
Will there be limits on coverage? The government will decide those limits. Perhaps they will decide that citizens over the age of 68 are “not good surgical candidates” for the exact procedure you need. Or, that children under a certain age are not approved for a treatment because it is considered experimental. Maybe only 10 therapy treatments will be covered regardless of progress.
Will it be against the law to seek out private pay medical help?
Will eye care and dental care be included? Can I get laser surgery to get rid of my eyeglasses? Will the government pay for overlays on discolored and rotted teeth?
Will univeral coverage include guest workers and foreigners who are here in college/working?
Will the supplies keep up with the demand? Once everyone realizes that they can be seen at the tent clinic in their assigned location without having to pay, will the supplies of sterile equipment, medications, and qualified professionals be able to keep up?
Will medications be included in the coverage? Will Lortab, Viagra, birth control pills, migraine headache shots and any number of other treatments be available?
Please THINK carefully about what you wish for. You may get it. If it sounds to good to be true, it usually is.
The statement was that 18,000 will die because of a lack of insurance… It comes from:
Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States. Although America leads the world in spending on health care, it is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage. To help policy-makers, elected officials, and others judge and compare proposals to extend coverage to the nation’s 43 million uninsured, the Institute of Medicine of the National Academies offers a set of guiding principles and a checklist in a new report, Insuring America’s Health: Principles and Recommendations.
This comes from Institute of Medicine web site…
Chas, this still does not answer all the other questions in my posting. Thank you for clarifying the 18,000.
dtc — I dont know what the answers are to your other questions… All I know is that something needs to be done with our present health care system… either something new, or some good modifications of the system we have now… One of my biggest gripes is the way insurance companies play “doctor” with those things they call DRG’s…
I know, for one thing, some modifications are needed in the basic medical school plan… Too many student docs are WAY over stressed, spend far too many hours on call, and on rounds as interns, and run the constant risk of making extreme errors…
Good Grief, There could be a double amputee on here, and somehow repuke would find a way to poke fun at them, and find a wasy to be MUCH worse off!!!
The Khan is IMpossible!!!
Posted by: Chas. | July 01, 2007 at 07:58 AM
Some troll pops up and posts as disabled, right away Chas believes them.
I guess calling me Repuke on Sunday is what c(little c)hristian Pastors like Chas do.
The Liberal’s Perpetual Butt Kisser and Excuse maker Chas.
Gee, idiot, you expect the rest of the Blog to accept YOUR disability… Why would YOU even DARE question somebody else’s???
Thats why they all call you insensitive!!! Damn!!!
Gee, idiot, you expect the rest of the Blog to accept YOUR disability… Why would YOU even DARE question somebody else’s???
Thats why they all call you insensitive!!! Damn!!!
Posted by: Chas. | July 01, 2007 at 12:23 PM
Riiiiiiggggggtttt Chas….
Some disabled person just happens to stop by at 3 o’clock in the morning at the WE Blog and of course, as long as they are against me, Chas is all for them.
And if you will note, the so-called “disabled person” never gave the type of disability they had. I’m sure because if I questioned them on it, they would crumble into the packaged liar that they are. :)
So far, on Chas’ unHoly day he has called me “Repuke” and an “Idiot.”
What a fine example of Little “c”hrisitanity he is.
They dont HAVE to tell YOU or anybody else what kind of disability they have… What business is it of yours??? AND, they didnt attack your disability…. Just challenged your insensitivity… like everybody else does!!!
Listen, Dimwit… I told you last nite, I dont have to defend MY faith to YOU or anybody else??? What do you think you are??? A One “man” inquisition??? Stupid Khan!!
I get a disability check myself, but I will never tell YOU or anybody else on this Blog WHAT my disability IS… Because it isnt anybody’s business…. Just to state the fact is plenty for ANYbody with a disability…
Chas is one of the anti-Christ’s disciples. He claims moral superiority by title then practices the demon’s handy work by deed.
His repeated name calling and defending the evil acts of others is proof of his co-existing relationship with the Devil.
Hey, you SOB, name calling is one thing… YOU dont even stop with character assasination!!
YOU will learn your lesson the hard way, I guess….
yes, Republican I did have colon screening and yes I did follow everything the doctor told me to do. So are you still saying it is my fault?
And, really, republican I don’t like the tone you take with me by being very judgemental from the start. That’s what brought the Republicans down in 2006 – it is your arrogance.
As for your link to colon cancer, I really don’t need someone like you trying to be a doctor. If I don’t watch out, you’ll be submitting a claim to my insurance company for your so-called consultation! That’s what our current healthcare system has come to – everyone and their brother submitting claims that may or may not be valid. That is driving up the costs of healthcare – greed!
oO, the Reverend Chas is now using vicious swear words.
I guess his sanctimonious behavior has seen its limits and he is now in bed with Satan. :)
Hey, idiot, do you want to find ONE SINGLE POST where I have ever had the stupidity or audacity to claim moral superiority over ANYbody??? Not even over YOU!!!
I TRIPLE DOG DARE you to find even ONE time when I have ever claimed moral superiority over ANYbody on this Blog!!!
No fedup, I just don’t understand if you had REGULAR colorectal exams how something like this could have happened.
How long was it between it when you got screened and given a clean bill of health until the illness event you described?
Appears to be something wrong here.
Hey, SOB isnt a swear word… it is just a reference to your line and lineage!!! LOL
Do you kiss Satan on the lips Chas? Of is it more of a father/son relationship? :)
Watch out Fedup… Next thing you know he will demand we all call him Dr. Khan!!! ROFL
You read way too much fiction, Sir…. WAY too much… Any Bible Scholar worth anything can tell you there is no such thing as Satan!!! Ha Ha Ha!!!
Sorry, old man, you must be the offspring of your own quest for a father figure…
Careful Fedup… He is making notes on your physical condition, so he can use it against you when you post something that disagrees with him…
He is the imaginary offspring of his own imaginary Devil!!
You mean Chas, that Lucifer aka Satan mentioned in the Bible is totally false?
Could you substantiate this claim?
I would be interested on how you explain how Jesus was not tempted by this non-existent entity.
Or are you saying you are not a Christian and don’t believe in Jesus Christ either?
What kind of Preacher are you? Do you belong to the First Church of Secular Progressives?
Anybody figure out I havent had the best weekend??? LOL First my CAPS stuck yesterday, and then my little pot called my big kettle black, before I could even get them out of the dishwasher!
First: Lucifer, correctly translated, means Light Bearer… Satan, correctly translated, means “adversary”…
Second: If you REALLY READ the story of the temptation of Christ, you will find that EACH temptation, is a temptation of the “world” to use his power in ways that he was not supposed to use them…
But, I forget, that takes some theological study, and some expertise in biblical languages, to even comprehend that… sorry…
IF you care to read the Book of Job, the character named “satan” is a member of the Court of God in the heavens… he has a JOB to do for the heavenly Court… Very good greek tragedy…
I believe there could be a meltdown on the Blog today… you all be ready!!!
So then Chas, you are not a Christian, that is, one who follows and practices the teachings of Christ.
That explains a lot.
Just what kind of Preacher are you?
Or was that a lie too?
Evidently your brain has as limited an understanding of christianity, as it does your own social mis-fit tendencies… Go study some theology, and maybe we would be on the same playing field… How DARE you judge anybody else’s Christianity by YOUR own standards!! Jesus himself never even did that… YOU think YOU are better than HIM??? Huh??? Answer, Neanderthal!!!
oh repuke
you fat 400 lb whiney live off the govt screw up
grow up and stop being so idiotic
you are well past irrelevant. I don’t even need to read any of your crap to know you are posting the same stupid chit
BTW, it is YOU who is throwing around your self-deprecating moral superiority…. NOT ME, as you erroneously accused me of upthread… YOU are doing exactly what you accuse me of doing… That sounds like a major symptom of bi-polar disorder, or borderline personality disorder…. Go look those up!!! FREAK!!!
Even though I am calling you names… My God still tells me I have to LOVE you, even if I dont LIKE you one bit… So, know this… GOD loves you, and so do I….
So this verse in Revelations is false then Chas?
Rev.12:9
“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”
or perhaps this verse is false:
1 Chronicles 20:1-2″And Satan stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel.”
Exactly what part of the Bible do you believe in and do not believe in Chas?
Or do you simply not believe in the Bible at all?
If you do not believe in the Bible, then you cannot claim to be Christian.
So, it was “leave” who was pretending to be the disabled person.
The only person that brought up the 400 pound comment was the so-called disabled poster.
And we all know that “leave” is part of the Fister Group that is now using another nic.
:)
THAT is a false accusation… ANYBODY can read the other postings on here… it doesnt take a special machine….
Look Chas and Republican, if you two want to call each other names and not address the issues, get together and do it. This is supposed to be discussing universal healthcare coverage. I have further questions to put forth for consideration.
Would the very wealthy of this nation get free healthcare too? Can you imagine Brangelina or Ted Kennedy or Bill Gates or the Clintons showing up at the local clinic to wait with the red necks, junkies, and CEOs?Will durable medical equipment be funded?
How about life support systems that need to be continually monitored and upgraded for years?
What about the cost of living in long term care facilities?
What will happen with the abortion issue?
Will there be a limit proposed for having children, as in China?
Chas, your earlier comment about the DRG system; it was started in the early 80’s by the Democrats who were in power at that time for Medicare/Medicaid patients. Insurance companies picked up the system later. Also, national healthcare coverage will do nothing to help medical schools teach students. The government does not regulate those schools (yet).
Finally, do you really want the government to manage your healthcare when you probably can’t name an example of any other government program that you think is run effectively and efficiently?
So what about those verses Chas?
Gee, I am almost impressed that you know how to use a Concordance… Revelation refers to the “dragon” — That particular reference does not come from early Christianity, but rather from Zoroastrianism of the same time frame… as do many sections of Revelation, which is why the Reformers objected to keeping it in the Canon of the New Testament… Check that out in Luther’s Works…
I Chronicles(O.T.) is a direct reference to the role of Satan, as I already outlined, in the Book of Job… Parallel postings of this passage attribute the “numbering” of Israel to a command from GOD, in the books of the Kings…
I told you to go study some theology, before you try to argue theology with a veteran theologian….
dtc — Like I said earlier, I do not have all of those answers… however, all of your questions are most valid… I know the DRG’s came in by way of the Democrats… their bad on that one… As for your other questions/concerns… I can tell you one thing for certainty… Your issues listed would make one whale of a weekend conference on health care issues facing our nation…. It would be a conference I would most likely try to attend…
As for medical school training, I realize it isnt an issue with Federal oversight… But it is over seen by the various States… In that sense, it could probably best be examined in some sort of national format… a consortium of States, perhaps…
Finally, I would have to say NO, if you mean government operated health care done in the same way as other failed attempts at oversight in other areas… However, IF the Feds were to undertake managing health care, the entire concept of federal management would have to be revised, and greatly modified…
ALSO, I dont see any way that the government could possibly take on health care management before the middle of the Century…. But, something needs to start happening by at least Summer, 2009….
dtc,
Health insurance is there so that the average person won’t suffer a catastrophic personal, financial, or medical setback. As such, you’re always free NOT to use it. If the aforementioned billionaires want private health care they’re free to get it… somewhere.
With regards to government programs that you think are all run so inefficiently. I can name many off the top of my head that function very well, theank you very much. A small list might include the National Institutes of Science and Technology, the US Patent & Trademark Office, The Centers for Disease Control, the Treasury….
A couple of not so small parts of the problem are, 1) 1 annual budget cycles that in many cases make planning difficult, 2) changes of administration with concomitant changes in direction and policy, 3) a system that doesn’t reward economy and efficiency. In Japan, for example, if a department comes in under budget, about 2/3 of the leftover is returned to the gov’t. whith the remaining 1/3 given out as incentive bonuses…the bureacracy is rewarded for finding ways to cut its budget. Here, if you come in under budget, your budget the next go around is that much smaller…no incentive at all to look for savings. and 4) the “Dilbert” principle on the part of the public…if you cut some money you see some savings..extrapolated, if you cut all money, you’ll see tremendous savings. While true, you’ll also have no department. Every venture needs a certain amount of money to function at optimal…funding at less than optimal gives you less than optimal results. Employees aren’t going to work lots of overtime under harried conditions with no chance of raises or bonuses or some type of rewards. Sure look for ways to keep the fat trimmed, but also fund these agencies properly, give them incentives to save and you’ll see remarkable changes.
My BEST advice to both political parties, and any yet to be announced third party, would be to leave Health Care Management OFF of their party platforms for 2008…. and not put it in, until at LEAST 2012, or 2016..
My Uncle was a Minister, deceased now.
So Chas, you are saying that these two passages in the Bible are false.
And that every Priest, Minister and Theologian that have studied this are all wrong.
I ask again, what sort of faith do you practice?
It certainly isn’t Christian.
BFAH — CDC, with the possible exception of the folks who try to keep a hanle on TB, of course… LOL… that area looks like it needs some attention… LOL
Sorry BFAH, I couldnt resist!!
NO repuke… YOU just dont know how to read it in light of proper biblical theology, and biblical/cultural history of those times… Just because I dont agree with YOU doesnt make it FALSE, idiot!!! Now, if you cant stay on point, here, then go make some coffee or something…
Oh gee, youre not a preacher, but you had a family member who was… well, aint that nice…
Well, not all clergy have the opportunity to study the biblical languages, and biblical history, and the cultural anthropology of that time frame… And how ridiculous… of course there are going to be SOME who will interpret things totally out of context… happens in every generation… I dont have to say those passages are FALSE, in order to tell you that your interpretation of them is just plain WRONG!!!
As far as my FAITH… You have already accused me of being something I am not… Why dont you define it, genius… You define everything else through your narrow ass mind!!!
So what school did you go to learn theology Chas? Was it a Seminary or was it at a University with secular ties?
Yes, my Uncle had a Master’s in Theological Studies and went to Seminary Training. He was an ordained Minister for 50 years years. So you are telling me Chas he was wrong as well.
According to you Chas, Satan doesn’t exist. You have just called every Preacher, Priest and Minister that had taught the Bible a liar.
As I said before, I doubt you are a Minister of Christianity, probably some mook who took 1 or 2 comparative religious studies course at a university. Because, it sure sounds to me as you are speaking out of your anal orifice.
Good Christ, 100 posts on a stupid quote about 18,000 deaths. Let me see if I can get this straight.
[quote=Republican]This is the first line from the SiCKO Website:
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”
This is the first line from the Institute of Medicine of the National Academies.
“Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States.” [/quote]
These two quotes mean exactly the same thing. What is the issue here? Is it that the first quote is not found VERBATUM on the IMNA site? He’s hollering over that?! That the word “SICKO” isn’t found on the imna site? And so cosmos is a liar over mere semantics?
I can’t wrap my mind around such ridiculousness.
Nobody but Repuke can answer that question for you… YOU know it means the same thing… I know that… But NOT HIM!!! But please dont get him started again!!!
Khan, how much more ARROGANT can you be??? I diagree with you and YOU decide I am not a Christian??? Well, I tell ya what…. If YOU call yourself a Christian, then I dont want ANY part of YOUR church, or YOUR UNCLE’S Church!!! I will keep my own, thank you very much… and I will thank YOU to stay out of theological matters which you OBVIOUSLY know NOTHING!!!!
See, in theology, you cant just quote a bunch of words, and wish for it to be TRUE!!! It doesnt work that way!!!
That’s why we go to GRADUATE schools of theology to do what we do!!! GRADUATE DEGREES, IDIOT…. any nut case can go to some bible college off in the woods…
See if you can possibly get your pea brain around that concept…. IT AINT YOUR FIELD… SO STAY OUT OF IT!!!
Do you have a severe reading problem, and/or mental disability? The “18,000 deaths” is NOT “from Michael Moore”.
Buy the book if you want to learn about it.
‘Insuring America’s Health: Principles and Recommendations’http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 09:47 PM
Yet if you go to the SiCKO Website, Moore has rephrased it for his movie and it is Moore’s quote which cosmos lied about it and says it was not said by Moore.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM
Therefore the statement by cosmos saying that particular statement was not Moore’s is an out and out lie.
cosmos is a liar.
But Chas, your graduate degree is in Music not Theology, you said so yourself.
1)”Get the facts, such as “SiCKO: Canadian “wait times” not nearly as long as some try to allege”, info re Cuba, etc, at
‘CHECKUP ON THE FACTS’http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/“
Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:05 PM——
2)…”http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/
“SiCKO: There are nearly 50 million Americans without health insurance.”http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/health_care_insurance/009789.html
“SiCKO: The United States is ranked #37 as a health system by the World Health Organization.”http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2000/en/pr2000-44.html
And many more…”Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:24 PM—–
Note the two “SiCKO:…” quotes above are each followed by support of the claim.
3)”Soon, you wont hear anything from these 18,000 Americans.
“SiCKO: 18,000 Americans will die this year simply because they’re uninsured.”http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175“Posted by: cosmos | June 30, 2007 at 01:57 PM—–
I didn’t include the http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/checkup/ link in the THIRD POST in less than ONE HOUR of “SiCKO:…” quotes, because I assumed readers wouldn’t need it.
But I underestimated Republican’s stupidity.
Also,Republican,
“The truth hurts when told, the Sierra Club screwed the Levees in New Orleans.”http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74527572
Republican posted that LIE back in May, when he stole J M Walker’s nic, http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/open_thread_28.html#comment-71041282
It’s Republican’s RESPONSIBILITY to back up his claim with a credible source.
And WHEN were Republican’s British health stats compiled?http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74505466
cosmos lies and omissions:
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74531132
Republican,
WHERE is your Sierra Club proof?
WHEN were your British health stats compiled?
Republican,”The truth hurts when told, the Sierra Club screwed the Levees in New Orleans.”http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74527572
Republican posted that LIE back in May, when he stole J M Walker’s nic, http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/open_thread_28.html#comment-71041282
It IS Republican’s RESPONSIBILITY to back up his claim with a credible source.
And WHEN were Republican’s British health stats compiled?http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74505466
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74531132
So Republican cannot read down this thread, and understand where the “SiCKO:…” quotes came from.
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/sicko-offers-gl.html#comment-74561946
And Republican STILL has ZERO credible evidence to support his Sierra Club re levees LIE. He made that LIE over a MONTH ago.
And Republican doesn’t know when his British health report was compiled.
Whatever…
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=32d_1182427382
answer the question repuke
how do you like this
Leave: So what is your point, if you have one? Did you think that was a funny prank?
no nop no rEPUB… i never SAID i HAVE A DEGREE IN MUSIC!!! THAT, OLD BOY, IS IN YOUR VAST IMAGINATION!!! YOU JUST TRY TO FIND WHERE I HAVE EVER CLAIMED A DEGREE IN MUSIC!!! CAUGHT YOU IN A LIE AGAIN!!! NOT YOUR DAY KHAN!!!
REUBLICAN IS A LIAR!!! INTENTIONALLY MAKING A FALSE STATEMENT…. HA HA HA MY DEGREE IS NOT IN MUSIC… NEVER HAS BEEN…. HA HA HA…. WANTS TO THINK HE KNOWS IT ALL, AND DONT KNOW S*IT!!!! BAD BAD REPUBLICAN!!! LIAR LIAR!!
DAMN CAPS STUCK AGAIN!!! NUTS!!!
COSMOS, I ARGUED THESE VERY LINKS WITH REPUBKHAN TILL VERRRY LATE LAST NITE/EARLY MORNING… HE CANNOT SEE HIS ERROR!!! HA HA HA ANYBODY CAN SEE IT, BUT NOT KHAN!!!
No I think it is absolutely sick and pathetic
but it is the kind of action you and your boys support, so I wanted to see your spin
hEY LEAVE, KHAN HAS ACCUSED YOU OF BEING SOMEBODY ELSE TODAY… DID YOU CATCH THAT EARLIER??? LOL
not surprising, but no I didn’t see it
I generally tend to skip his posts cause they are all the same..
who did he think I was?
SOME POSTER CALLED: REALLY REALLY DISABLED LOL
Chas,
Odd about Caps Lock stuck. Does the indicator lite turn on/off when you type that key? That key have the same feel as others, like ‘Shift’?
Vac the keyboard? Have a spare keyboard to swap out?
I am me and only me
You can tell its me because I am angry and gonna hold their feet to the fire every frikin time.
I am frikin sick of these corrupt assholes ruining MY country
oh repuke
you 400 lb winey fat phuck
I never post by any other name but this
you are off and running now cause you are found out
you pathetic little cheney wanna be
COSMOS, I DONT HAVE AN INDICATOR LIGHT ON THIS KEYBOARD… IT IS A WIRELESS ONE, SO IT IS POSSIBLE I SUPPOSE THAT THE BATTERIES ARE GOING DOWN OR SOMETHING… I DID THE AIR THING, AND IT STOPPED FOR A WHILE… BUT NOW STUCK AGAIN!! WAAAA WAAAAAA
OK, I think it might just be the batteries, cause its fixed again… I banged it on my desk once, and now its working again, at least for now… strange weekend here…. I will be glad when this one is over!!
republican must be dyslexic or something because he asks questions, posters respond to his questions but yet Republican continues to ignore the answers.
As far as you questioning fedup about their colon cancer, have you ever heard of lab technicians reading samples wrong or x-ray doctors reading the films wrong? Have you ever heard of cancer sometimes is not seen until something traumatic happens to the patient? If I recall, fedup stated they had an abscess in their abdomen with a fistula. Maybe this is what had to happen before the cancer was detected.
And, besides, Republican are you a doctor? Even doctors can be wrong. Have you ever thought that cancer can strike anyone at anytime? What will you do if you are the next target for cancer? I’d like to see you spouting personal responsibility then when you are hit with an astronomical bill that fedup has to deal with it.
Kharma is a bitch, Republican. If I were you, I’d being watching out for the payback time.
Oh I am sure the Khan will get Kharma…. and then some…
I wish I knew how to direct Fedup to a help line… but alas, I dont have his/her email address… but, I wouldnt post mine here either!! Best to you Fedup!! Been through cancer treatments myself… You will be in all our thoughts!!
shoveit… he ignores the answers given, because he knows he is wrong, and can never admit to such a thing as being wrong… However, I would say it is more like ADD, or bi-polar… according to the texts…
he slinked off to another thread cause he couldn’t stand the heat
just like the slimey repukes of his party
“you 400 lb winey fat phuck”
“How Libs Attack!”Coming to Theatrics Near You.
Brought to you by the Surrenders of the Got Nothing, you are fat or some other insult cause I ain’t got nothin’ nothins.
Actually was eating some barbq beef ribs, potato salad, oven fresh bread and tea.
Even after eating all that I appear to be 200 pounds shy of the 400 pound mark. :)
aww
fleets enema comes to defend his boy toy
how sweet.
hope you two have a great life together
even tho your savior wants to keep you apart
“fleets enema comes to defend his boy toy”
Making fun of homos, hardly seems consistant, or funny. I guess when you got nothing (funny), you still got nothing Period
I wasn’t making fun of anything. I said it was sweet
everyone needs love
One for many on EITHER side of the Michael Moore film, and Global Warming>>>>
“Some use statistics like a drunk man uses lamp-posts… for support rather than illumination.”
Leave >> Sometimes explaining a joke can be an exercise in futility!!
too true
I think we saw inside leave’s true self. Call it what you wish.
Fleet… there aint no conceit in your family… you appear to have it all
you haven’t seen anything that I haven’t let you see fleets enema you goperv
see ya all tomorrow
I am off
Well, Khan, guess you struck out on trying to find ANYwhere that I said I had a degree in Music… Guess I would stay away from the Blog if I was THAT wrong too!! But, you couldnt find it, because I never SAID it!! Now, if I did to you what you did to Cosmos, I would call you a liar…
But I wont do that… Instead I will just leave, and say God Loves You, and so do I!!!
Nite!!
Some years ago, after my wife died, my father-in-law found the original receipt for her delivery at Hutchinson Hospital. For the doctor, delivery room, a week in the hospital and meals, the total charge was $12.87.For the same delivery now, except with only a 24-48 hr. stay, the bill would run between $2-3,000, unless there are complications, which can jack up that price by 10-20 times or more.Back in the early 1960’s, insurance companies decided to create a market for healthcare coverage, and began to overpay doctor’s and hospital fees, gradually raising them beyond what the average family could afford. The resulting crisis forced more and more families to purchase plans at exhorbitant premiums. As the premiums rose, Unions saw this as an issue for labor, and fought for employer-paid healthcare coverage in contracts.Today, the insurance companies are screaming bloody murder about the medical costs they created; yet they seem to stay awfully profitable! Maybe it’s time for the government to step in as the universal insurer for all health insurance, and straighten this mess out.
Timothy Noah of Slate.com points out that health care costs REALLY disadvantage American businesses:http://www.slate.com/id/2169131/nav/tap1/
In fact, it’s so bad that Rick Wagoner, chairman of GM, has asked Congress to tackle it, as he lists health care as a “Top 3″ priority to fixing American manufacturing industries:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/documents/wagoner_feb_10.pdf
This is sort of like the global warming issue. Some folks believe that if they look outside their door and all is well than that means that all is well everywhere.
Well, it ain’t well, and it’s time we stopped ignoring the problem. I will be writing Tiarht, Brownback, and Roberts this week.
Fed Up, Sorry I’m just now replying to you…work is keeping me really busy.Just hang in there and keep fighting for everything you need. In the long run you’ll be a much stronger person and have an appreciation for life that a few of us get to experience. Cancer treatment is much better than ever and the chances for survival are the best they’ve ever been. Just hug those who you love and enjoy each new day as if it’s a gift.I’ll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
Mary,”Just hang in there and keep fighting for everything you need. In the long run you’ll be a much stronger person and have an appreciation for life that a few of us get to experience.”
You mean he should just think of it as another growth experience? From the sound of his post, he’s already too tall for the average waiting room!
It’s not what happens to a person, but what they do with it that counts. I think cancer was a huge gift to me, I’ll never look at life the same way..I love and appreciate the things in life I never even noticed before and the small things don’t bother me.A good friend of mine who died from cancer used to wear a t-shirt to work that said “Don’t sweat the small stuff…and it’s all small stuff”.After I went through the “Big C”, I knew exactly what she meant.
Mary,I lost my parents and my daughter and my best friend to cancer. I don’t consider that a gift. Apparently what you consider a gift was that yours was treatable!
Jed,
The “gift” is: “Don’t sweat the small stuff…and it’s all small stuff”.
I’ve lost family, and close friends to cancer. The “gift” is to value EVERY moment that we are alive.
That’s exactly what I meant Cosmos. Even losing someone makes you realize how important it is to let those you love know how you feel about them. The only thing any of us have is today.I saw a Peanuts cartoon long ago that I loved, Charley Brown is telling Lucy that she “should live every day as though it’s going to be her last”. She imediately goes into a panic and starts screaming “SOMEONE HELP ME, I’M DYING..AHHHHHHH!”Charlie Brown responds “Well, I guess that philosophy isn’t meant for everyone”.I try to live everyday in a meaningful way, but I’ll admitsometimes it’s a challenge!
Cos, Mary,That’s a cop-out and you know it. What you and I really wish is that they were still here with us! There isn’t a day goes by that I haven’t got a question for one or the other of them, and I’m stuck with having to figure out what he or she might have said. I’d much rather just ask them.I wish that all the money invested in cures for baldness and silicone implants and butt lifts and nose jobs had gone to research the important things, the things that kill us. Then maybe we could just ask!
Of course we wish they were here with us, but death is as much a part of life as being born. Learning to embrace life no matter how fragile and short it is the way to happiness, Jed. You have to learn to let go of what you can’t control and enjoy the moment, for however long it lasts. To love is to risk getting hurt, and sooner or later everyone leaves us or we leave them. I would love for there to be a cure for every illness and that no one would die, but that isn’t going to happen. There sin;t a day that goes by that I don’t miss my friends and loved ones who have passed away, but I get joy from the memories I have of them..and I focus on what I still have, that’s what’s important.I’m sure you miss your wife terribly, but at least you know what it feels like to love and be loved. Some are never that lucky. You’ve been blessed, and for that you need to be grateful.
Of course death is always with us. That doesn’t mean we just give up and accept it, or glorify it as some sort of “gift” or “growth experience.” There’s a lot of pain and suffering involved, and that can be treated to some extent if there weren’t people counting beans, and others who think it’s somehow “purifying,” and others who wish opiates had never existed.There are also researchers who might actually get a handle on cancer, and other horrible ways to die, if they had even a small part of the money we blew on a failed war in Iraq. But then all those people might be denied the “gift” of getting that diagnosis!
“if they had even a small part of the money we blew on a failed war in Iraq.”
Now that is the weak argument of the weak. How many could we have saved if we had never gone to the moon? Silly argument by the silly minded. Libs, you gotta love ‘em.
Hey Fleetie,As I recall, we actually got to the moon.
I agree, Jed. We need to do everything we can to aleviate suffering and find treatments for the sick. We can do that and also accept the fact that hardships often offer personal growth. As a nurse, I see death often and as a natural part of life, so maybe that’s why I’m more accepting of it. I’m not afraid to die anymore. Going through cancer gave me the opportunity to accept my mortality and make the most of living. I’ve lost more than a few loved ones from cancer..from my 7 yr old nephew to my life long friend who died at 39, leaving behind her two young daughters..All this has made me realize how precious life is and how important it is to cherish each day as a gift.Like you, I’m also pissed at how much money this country has wasted on this war, money that could have been used for so many positive and useful things, like health care for those who can’t afford it.
Mary,By all reckoning, given my many “personal growth” experiences, I should be at least 7′9″ tall by now. Instead, it all settled around the middle. I don’t need anymore “personal growth,” thank you. Let’s get that research done! Now! Along with a universal heath system so EVERYBODY benefits from it!
Funny, your personal growth settled around your middle and mine went straight to my butt!!
Mary,Okay, let’s agree that none of us are in need of any more personal growth, and get started on getting rid of all those experiences that cause it!
I wish life were so easy. Most of us in the health care profession are doing our best, but we don’t control all the outcomes, too many factors come into play.Hospice is a wonderful organization that assists people in having a “healthy death”, that’s what we call it when someone passes in peace without pain…with the terminally ill that’s the only goal. Comfort, support, and pain control. It’s even the law and health care professionals can be held accountable for not providing those things.For the rest we do everything to make the odds of survival the priority, but the human body is far from perfect and the same with it’s owners. I have a guy right now with a horrible diabetic wound that’s infected. We do everything to help it heal and he sabatoges everything we try to do. He’s getting the rest of his leg cut off next month, and maybe it could have been avoided if he were more compliant with treatment. The same with those with a 50 yr smoking habit and then expect modern medicine to save them from lung cancer and death. It’s not that those in the healthcare industry don’t care, that’s why we choose this profession in the first place..but we can only do so much to help others, they have to also take responsibility and do their part if they want to heal. We have effective treatments available for most diseases, but if you want to “get rid of the experiences that cause personal growth”, then people have to embrace healthier lifestyles, and even then there are no guarantees, because life happens.
I feel like a fog, not that it matters. I’ve pretty much been doing nothing , but eh. Today was a loss. I haven’t gotten much done for a while.
I haven’t been up to much recently, but whatever. I just don’t have much to say lately. Basically nothing happening to speak of. So it goes. My mind is like a complete blank. Such is life.
Males should be allowed to go shirtless at home only – Or vary with places for another persuasive speech topic
We are killing the rainforest
Sex offenders should be, should not be castrated
I’ve basically been doing nothing to speak of. Basically nothing seems worth thinking about. I feel like a void, but that’s how it is. I’ve just been hanging out doing nothing.
It is never okay to lie, sometimes okay to lie
I feel like a fog, not that it matters. I’ve pretty much been doing nothing , but eh. Today was a loss. I haven’t gotten much done for a while.