Here’s a point to ponder about the challenges facing rural Kansas, made last week by Princeton cattle producer Bill Miller during a congressional hearing in Salina on farm issues: "In western Kansas, a man might bleed to death before he can get to a physician for medical attention. In east Kansas, the worst problem resulting from that same injury might be a headache and boredom suffered by his wife while he lays around the house five or six days recuperating."
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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48 Comments
Medical care in large parts of the country is a problem and it ain’t gettin no better. Problem is that the doctors and other professionals can make mucho money working in cities. Small towns don’t have the same to offer. I think what we need to do is encourage new doctors to locate in such places maybe with a federal subsidy or perhaps a program where the government will forgive student loans for college and medical school – like one year for every year they practice in a rural area.
I am pretty sure there is already a program like that, or at least there was at one time Kev. But the general price of medical has become so high that most rural hospitals and the like can not stay in business.
What are your view on whether it is necessary and/or important for the government to ensure that those in all geographic areas of the country have access to medical care within a certain amount of time from where those persons live?
Why?
So I heard a Boortz soundbyte on Wingnut Radio the other day, making a case against national health care. “Socialized medicine is gloing to happen in this country,” he said, “because you have people who believe that their health is a right, and that they have a right to health care.” Ahhhh. The rushing sound of a Libertarian mouth roaring.
The lack of rural access to health care is yet another reason why health care cannot be left exclusively to for-profit enterprises. It’s one thing to not be able to get Wensleydale cheese within 50 miles, but yes, Neal, people have a RIGHT to health care.
I always thought that Veterinarians who locate in rural areas should be dual qualified. After all, they go through as intensive training as Physicians and some go through even more intensive training.
It would have to be a carefully thought out process, but doable imo. They probably could be certified at minimum as a Physician Assistant, so that more people could have access to health care.
I should have qualified my last post–health care they can AFFORD. Despite the Boortzian “logic,” those without means, such as may elderly and children living in poverty, should not be expected to choose between health care and eating.
Neither should the farmers. Republican’s suggestion sounds initially good for places where there’s already an appropriate density of veterinarians.
The vets I know already have a full case load!
One of the commonly held standards within the medical field is the golden hour. That being any traumatic injury should be treated at a hospital sufficient to treat that injury within 1 hour. Of course, quicker is better.One of the quickest ways for the FEDS to help is to actually allow the true cost of care to be paid by Medicare. The government decided that since waste and fraud was such a problem, they would just reduce the fee schedule, or not allow it to keep up. Instead of filing charges against the guilty, they punished everyone. THat and the high cost of malpractice insurance makes it less easy to have a practice in a low density populaiton area
It’s been like that in rural areas and even Kansas since the dawn of the pioneers who came here to Homestead.
It’s not once they had accessible and excellent emergency care and now they don’t. It’s always been like that and it will continue to do so.
A farmer might overturn his tractor out in the middle of a field with no visible sight from any road and that farmer will be out there for days before somebody comes looking. Is it our fault? The Governments problem?
It’s just the facts of life in rural areas. It’s the price you pay for being remote. Their’s cons and pros to living a rural life, and not everybody can have it good all ways and for everything.
Very good point Joe. I used to hike a lot into wilderness areas and always knew that a simple broken leg could be fatal. As you note, that goes with the territory. On a canoe trip in the Boundary Waters we had a Scout gash his leg. Our first aid had to do for several days before he saw a doctor. Good thing we were prepared.
A little known fact is that there are more hospitals in Jerry Moran’s district than in any other congressional district in the NATION.
A little town like Quinter has, wait for it… FIVE doctors. And the oldest one is my age, the three youngest are right out of med school.
Now, why would they go to Quinter, where alcohol sales are forbidden, the population is plummeting under 1000, and they are only 50 or so miles from Hays?
Because Quinter has a great hospital administrator who cares more about his community than expanding his little empire. Because he had the forsight to know they needed YOUNG doctors.
And because the community of Quinter doesnt bitch and moan about little things. They just do what needs to be done.
And look how well they do it.
Oh, and maybe because Quinter didnt sell their soul to the Hays Medical Center? Like the TWO doctors in WaKeeney and the WaKeeney hospital did?
Becoming a satellite operation of Hays is NEVER a good idea. The contrast between the medical community in Quinter and WaKeeney is a good example.
The funny thing in dealing with Hays, is that our dollars go there, but somehow, their dollars just never seem to leave Hays.
Too bad that big ol’ highway only goes one way between Hays and WaKeeney. And funny how it goes BOTH ways between Quinter and Collyer….
I thought there was a program where a portion of medical school loans could be forgiven (or paid by employers) for service in under-served areas. Such a thing would likely be attractive to young MDs & DOs.
There are also many rural areas where they have very competent PAs and ARNPs.
There used to be a program to cover the tuition to med school if you agreed to serve in an underseved area. I don;t know if it still exists. I had a cousin who did so. And continues to do so somewhere in western Kansas (last I heard).
ANd PAs and ARNPs have been a boon to many small towns, operating clinics and supporting hospitals in very small communities. What a great program.
Often, a bigger problem in small communites is lack of emergency medical services. Even if a hospital is only 30 minutes away, by the time an ambulance can get there, and back to a hospital, much time has elapsed. But Joe is right, there are advantages and disadvanges to living everywhere. Up to each person to pick their poison.
Source: NPR
A new national poll indicates rural Americans are no longer reliably Republican, and the Bush administration’s conduct of the war in Iraq seems mainly to blame.
People from the nation’s smallest places had the biggest impact in the last two presidential elections. President Bush’s dominance in rural counties is credited with giving him his winning margins in both 2000 and 2004.
But the new survey, of 804 likely voters living beyond cities and suburbs, indicates that the Republican formula for winning presidential elections is losing a key component.
“I think there are two big headlines out of this poll,” says Anna Greenberg of the Democratic polling firm of Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research. “The first is ‘Republican Collapse in Rural Areas.’ And the second is ‘Rural is the Battleground in 2008.”
Read more: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10...
Farmgrrl,
Interesting article (FYI: The link doesn’t work, but go to NPR’s home page, and you’ll find it top-center).
One problem with polls like this, though, is that they tend to ignore the down-ballot races, or if they do, they try to apply national averages to local races.
The facts on the ground are still this: Unseating an incumbent is devilishly difficult, no matter what party they belong to. As far as Kansas goes, it’s hard just to recruit good candidates in many districts. Who wants to go up against an incumbent that gets re-elected with 70% of the vote?
Tom, well, it would help if the District Chair of the Democratic Party, Tim Peterson, wasnt actively DISCOURAGING candidates from running.
Except himself, of course.
Down ballot races? Explain to me why Trego county is registered 3:1 Republican, yet the county commission has two democrats and one republican. The county clerk is a dem, the county attorney is a dem, judge is a dem, and until recently, the sherrif was a dem too.
And the previous sherrif, the previous county commissioner and the previous register of deeds were all democrats too.
Go figure.
Sebelius carried Trego county by 63 percent in her first run for Cedar Crest. (That dropped in 04 due to her dirty dealings on water). Morrison carried Trego county. Ralph Ostmeyer has never carried Trego county.
Go figure.
You can find similar results in other counties out here. The problem with Kansas Democrats is that they would rather piss, moan and sigh about being in the minority than they would to WORK with it and change it.
They also have a nice little insular club going with the state committee, the party officers, and the regional sebelius henchmen. They really dont WANT any new blood, or new candidates.
They want THEIR people. They dont give a damn about winning majorities. Look at the coattails, or lack thereof for Sebelius. If you ask me, SHE is the down ballot problem, along with the state party leadership.
When sebelius, peterson and their merry band of henchmen are out of the process?
Take a look again at Trego county…
“(That dropped in 04 due to her dirty dealings on water).”
Sorry, I meant 06.
Who is the state rep for Trego?
Just as an aside, I made an ambulance trip last week. Know what the biggest delay was? Negotiating through all of the road construction.
XXX,
A rural trip? Or through Wichita’s Orange Cone district (otherwise known as EVERY ARTERIAL in east Wichita)?
xxx-
That sucks.
Oh, and the seats the dems recently lost in Trego county?
All happened after she screwed us on Cedar Bluff and let Hays and Russell RAPE the Smoky.
Why? Because now, in this county, the democratic party is DEAD. Thanks to sebelius and her water buddies. There isnt even a party structure here anymore. They cant even get anyone to fill the party offices or precinct seats here anymore. Thank you very much kathleen and tim.
No one in THIS county wants the taint of sebelius on them. And we are not alone in that.
Sebelius’ actions and inactions on water have ensured that going forward, dems will RARELY be elected here. Partly because of no state party support, but also because the dems in the legislature voted the way governor leadership told them to vote on water.
NOW the good folks out here who used to elect democrats if they were good candidates would rather eat a bowl of dirt than take a chance on losing the REST of our water to ethanol and golf courses in Hays and Russell.
Look at governor leadership’s numbers in western kansas in the last election. The counties with the most water problems? She did WORSE in 06 than in 02.
She is doing for the democrats in Kansas what bush did for republicans nationwide. But then, she is the best republican governor we’ve ever had.
As Mary Chapin Carpenter says, “the stars might lie but the numbers never do”.
Tom, we have Virginia Beemer. The ONLY kansas rep to have NO opposition last year.
Does that tell you anything about the disaster the governor and state party leadership have created?
People dont run as dems out here because they fear incumbents. They dont run because sebelius and her legislators have soured what might have been a public ready to change.
And also, why would anyone run when the “party” in the person of Tim Peterson tells folks the state dems flat dont care about these seats, and if anyone wants to run, they are on their own.
Oh, and PS. What Tim doesnt say? HE and governor leadership are going to suck up all the money and talent. If you want to run out here, you are REALLY on your own.
How’s that working out for the dems in Kansas? Any hope of a majority in the house or senate anytime soon?
But then, who cares, as long as governor leadership wins….
Oh, and just a little political inside joke.
In 04, the dems out here had a decent candidate and there was NO incumbent for Virginia’s seat because Ralph was movin’ on up to take Stan Clark’s senate seat.
So WTF does Eber Phelps do?
HE brings the dem rep candidate to campaing in Trego county. To go with Eber Phelps to meet folks, shake hands, get votes, etc.
And who led the opposition to Cedar Bluff in the House? Who kept the dems in line for Hays and Russell? And where is he from?
You got it. Eber Phelps. From Hays.
That is about as politically dumb as one could possibly be. That fairly good candidate, running against no incumbent, tanked, because you HAVE to have Trego county to win this district.
So the dems send one of the most hated men in Trego county to campaign for this guy?
Jesus wept.
THAT is how out of touch the dems are with ANYTHING west of Wanamaker Road.
Farmgrrl,
Since KEC has a Southwest chapter, we’re looking at two races for our PAC to get heavily involved in over the next year (I won’t print them here, of course). They both have incumbents who look pretty vulnerable, and are ripe for being unseated by a moderate Republican or Democrat.
We don’t have a chapter in NW Kansas. If we did, we might be able to get involved in one of those races up your direction. It’s a damn shame we’re not organized there, don’t you think?
:::evil grin:::
Yes, it is a shame we arent organized out here. I hope you get right on that.
:::evil grin:::
Too bad there is no democratic party structure out here to help :)
And… you know I tried… and look where it got me….
I’d be willing to try again, but I cant fight BOTH the dems and repukes out here. Alone. With no support.
I feel like the old joke when surrounded by enemies, Tonto said “what’s this WE, kemosabe?”
I lead the charge, and I look behind me, and the troops are all cowering. Been there, done that, not doing it again.
Besides, you do it SO MUCH better than I ever could…
:::evil grin:::
And ya know Tom, it was the democrats who made me hold my nose and side with republicans on water issues. Despite their homophobia and wingnuttia, at least they try to work on water issues.
And then again, more republicans voted AGAINST the hate amendment in Kansas than democrats.
Go figure. So much for the democrats “big tent” in kansas. Funny that those tents seem ONLY big enough for terry fox and phred phelps.
And governor leadership…
Oh, and by the way, the REPUBLICANS out here have recruited me to run in the last two elections.
Of course I cant do that, but the democrats?
crickets chirping
Sigh. A prophet is never without honor except in his home land (party)…..
“And ya know Tom, it was the democrats who made me hold my nose and side with republicans on water issues. Despite their homophobia and wingnuttia, at least they try to work on water issues.
And then again, more republicans voted AGAINST the hate amendment in Kansas than democrats.
Go figure. So much for the democrats “big tent” in kansas. Funny that those tents seem ONLY big enough for terry fox and phred phelps.
And governor leadership…
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | June 11, 2007 at 11:41 AM
Oh, and by the way, the REPUBLICANS out here have recruited me to run in the last two elections.
Of course I cant do that, but the democrats?
crickets chirping”
wow. Seems like maybe you need to change parties, or just disregard them all together and run for office as an independent.
Heheheeh. Thanks lj, but I have no desire to wake up with a horse’s head in my bed. And the possibility of that doubles when you are willing to call a spade a bloody shovel on BOTH parties.
And somehow, being a relatively poor, free thinking, entreprenuer, lesbian, liberal, water advocate, farm girl who hates injustice is not really a profile for a winning candidate in kansas.
But I’m a helluva tool to have on your side :)
I think the republicans just want me for the entertainment value….
And somehow, being a relatively poor, free thinking, entreprenuer, lesbian, liberal, water advocate, farm girl who hates injustice is not really a profile for a winning candidate in kansas.
:)
But I’m a helluva tool to have on your side :)
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | June 11, 2007 at 11:51 AM
:)!!!
Actually, I’m just a bit intrigued by Publican’s suggestion of training rural vets as Physician’s Assistants.I had an uncle who was one of the state’s leading veterinarians, and as a child, got most of my vaccinations and such from him. During WWII, he served in the navy, and was considered medical personnel for most purposes when a physician wasn’t handy.Of course, there’s a shortage of rural vets too, but adding them to the pool with dual licensing might help.
off topic, but please allow this transgression and then maybe move the discussion to open? ‘
Ksfarmgrrl,Maybe we need a NEW party?
Thanks
Back on topic, I think that more PA and ARNP student slots should be made available, with an agreement to serve in a poorly served area providing a scholarship to the program. I think realistic Medicare reinbursements would help. I think that people relying less on the federal government, and more on themselves, by supplying a hospital tax district and more volunteers would help. More cities and counties being proactive rather than sitting on their butts complaining or just doing nothing would help. Make a difference. Volunteer or run for office–that is not directing at any one person, regardless of previous discussions.
Farmgrrl,
Every time I am reminded of what happened to you three years ago, my teeth clench, my blood pressure goes up, and the household pets hide under the furniture.
Heh…do you know I talked about you in a Senate hearing this year? I was doing everything I could to guilt old Ralph into voting his conscience for a change instead of his campaign bank account. :::sigh::: It didn’t work.
Anyway…I know how the system works in this state. I’ve spent three legislative sessions watching that sausage factory up waaaay too close. It’s a disgusting process run by some people who…well, you know. More I cannot say here, because I know what I write here gets read by people _there_.
You wrote: “I lead the charge, and I look behind me, and the troops are all cowering. Been there, done that, not doing it again.”
Things have changed, you know that. You can see it from where you are. Three years ago, this state’s gay rights movement was stuck in reverse, with every city’s group fighting with every other city’s group. One city in Kansas had TWO advocacy groups, that rarely if ever worked together.
We’re not cowering any longer. We’re not throwing sacrificial goats to the wolves. Not while I have anything to say about it.
And as far as the two parties go…I regularly irritate the living piss out of Democratic insiders by backing Republicans around the state. I don’t give a rat’s bare patootie what party someone belongs to. I care about their voting records, and their willingness to bravely stand up for equal rights for every Kansan. The party hacks on both sides can kiss my fat gay behind if they don’t like it. :)
I don’t give a rat’s bare patootie what party someone belongs to. I care about their voting records, and their willingness to bravely stand up for equal rights for every Kansan. The party hacks on both sides can kiss my fat gay behind if they don’t like it. :)
Posted by: Tom | June 11, 2007 at 12:22 PM
Very good! Back the candidate, not the party. An idea I agree with. But stil, maybe there is a need for a new party, one not beholden to any past, or historical base?
Tom, thanks for your kind words. I really dont want to start whining about all that again. It is an odd full circle when my testimony in the senate was what lit the fire, and then this year testamony about me, not by me, was a good thing.
Go figure.
And yes, I do know things have changed, and MUCH of that, even though you are too modest to say so, is due to you and your leadership. And you know I mean that sincerely.
And part of it is also just ALL gay people being slapped in the face by the profound hatred of the hate amendment, and the fact that over 70% of Kansas ARE as bigoted as you think.
Hee hee hee. And yes, we couldnt get Ralph to do the right thing, even if he says I’m his favorite democrat :) I guess that AND a quarter might get me a cup of coffee at Clelands.
“And as far as the two parties go…I regularly irritate the living piss out of Democratic insiders by backing Republicans around the state. I don’t give a rat’s bare patootie what party someone belongs to. I care about their voting records, and their willingness to bravely stand up for equal rights for every Kansan. The party hacks on both sides can kiss my fat gay behind if they don’t like it. :)”
Mega dittos dude. Mega dittos. It’s one of the reasons I love and respect you so much.
I totally agree with the need for a new party lj. I think it is possible, not pushing the rock up the hill one more time.
I think if the state, this country, this WORLD isnt ready for a legit third or independent party movement, it will never happen.
I cant imagine a time more ripe than this. Except maybe 08. And not because of the prez election. Because the longer the democrats toe the DLC line, the clearer it becomes that at the national level, the difference between the parties is minimal and cosmetic only.
They all serve the same masters. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.
And the sad part? We could change it if we just wanted to. If we just put down the remote, snuffed out the joint, quit borrowing money, poured out the drink and got off the blog…
hehehehhe!
off the blog? Say it isn;t so!
Hey Ksfarmgrrl-
think that new party would be a big enough tent for the both of us?
I’m not even sure it would be big enough for me…
heheheheheeeh!
Kansas is already fragmenting into three parties. Far-right Republicans and far-right Democratic allies, moderate Republicans, and Democrats. To create yet another political party in Kansas, those divisions have to be recognized and exploited. I don’t see how the interests of rural Kansas stand a chance in that scenario, especially since so many of the most radicalized in both parties are from rural districts.
“What are your view on whether it is necessary and/or important for the government to ensure that those in all geographic areas of the country have access to medical care within a certain amount of time from where those persons live?”
I would say this- every COUNTY in the United States should have a local hospital that can offer at least basic services and a level 3 ER (perhaps staffed at night by RNs with a physician on call). Every region should have a full service hospital with a level 1 ER and services like MRI and surgery. Therefore if you took Kansas and divided it into roughly 6 regions, 3 of them are already covered with such hospitals (north central, Salina, NE Topeka and KC, south central, Wichita) there may be more but I would have such a facility in Dodge or Garden City for the southwest, Goodland for the northwest and whatever the largest city is in the southeast (Galena or Ark City I guess). This would save the lives of many more Kansans and provide medical services to areas that need them. And I don’t have any problem subsidizing medical services for rural people. We already subsidize roads, phones and schools out there to some extent. I think that no matter where you live, you should have the same services as those that live in cities have as much as possible. People should not have to die just because they live in Syracuse instead of Wichita.
Kev – how would you pay for that if there is virtually no population there?
There are trade-offs wherever you live. We deal with a certain amount of congestion and pollution and get fairly good medical care availability. Live in NYC and you might have even better research hospitals available but you pay a price.
On the other hand; live on an isolated mountaintop and you can have clean air, no traffic, but also no nearby hospital. And, in a town of 100 people access will by nature be limited.
That said, with technology you can have a good nurse and a virtual DR consultation via internet. Maybe that will be part of the answer.
Here’s the original Tonto story.
The Lone Ranger and Tonto were riding one day, and turned around to see a cloud of dust and several dozen Indians coming up fast from behind.
The Lone Ranger said, “Let’s get out of here,” so they took off. The Indians pursued.
They went into a canyon but soon found it was a box-ended. Looking up, they noticed more Indians on top of the cliffs.
The Lone Ranger said, “It looks like we are in serious trouble, my friend.”
“What you mean we, White Man?”