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Open thread 6/20
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted June 20, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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Dear Kansas Equality Coalition members, allies, and supporters:
June is celebrated worldwide as Pride Month, and yesterday, June 19, marks the start of a proud new era for Kansas. In its third and final vote, the Lawrence City Commission passed this state’s first Domestic Partner Registry.
For the first time in Kansas history, gay and lesbian couples will be able to register their relationships, and apply for benefits that require official recognition. Employers that offer domestic partner benefits, such as health insurance, will now be able to extend those benefits to their Kansas employees. Official recognition may bring other benefits as well, such as hospital visitation, loan applications, and more.
Kansas Equality Coalition’s Lawrence chapter has been, since last year, working tirelessly on winning this registry. It has not been easy. Past the first obvious hurdle of drafting the ordinance and getting it on the City Commission’s agenda, they’ve had to fend off attacks in the Kansas Legislature, they’ve had to convince a new, post-election Commission of the fairness and necessity of the registry, and they’ve had to stand firm against public attacks by radicals bent on keeping gay and lesbian Kansans in second-class status.
The registry ordinance is not perfect. An advisory opinion from the Kansas Attorney General made it clear that the City of Lawrence must limit the registry to Lawrence residents only. But that same opinion also made it clear that the Registry is legal, even given the passage of the marriage ban in 2005. What’s legal in Lawrence can also become legal in every city and county in Kansas. If we work hard enough, we can achieve registries and more across the state.
The work is not done; we know there are two profound threats to our victory.
First, the radical-right in the Kansas Legislature will try to outlaw the Lawrence registry, and ban any future attempts to create them. A proposed law that would do this was introduced this last session, and it took all the financial resources of every Kansas Equality Coalition chapter working together to stop it. We know our opponents are prepared to attack us again when the Legislature reconvenes in January.
Second, we’ve heard that radical-right opponents of fair treatment for gay and lesbian Kansans are preparing a lawsuit to block the implementation of registry. I can promise you two things: We are ready for this, and we will fight to keep our new victory with everything we have.
We know the attacks are coming. We must be prepared, we must stand our ground, and we must all work together to preserve this important victory in Lawrence. The hard work of our members in Lawrence cannot be surrendered. Beyond Lawrence, we must all make the commitment to win these victories throughout our state.
This is Pride month, and we have much to be proud of. On Sunday, Wichita Pride and Wichita’s KEC chapter will be hosting Kansas’ largest Pride celebration. It will indeed be a weekend of celebration, all across Kansas.
Congratulations to Tom and the KEC.
I for one am in full support of gay rights including civil unions that give them full legal recognition.
Tom,
Congratulations. I for one am for removing labels. Removing the gay or domestic partner label. Why are we grouping our people? Why are we labeling them?
Fight the good fight Tom and maybe one day we will all just be Americans.
Prayers for the family and friends of these brave firefighters who lost their lives.
The ranks, names, ages and years of service of the nine men killed fighting a fire in Charleston, S.C.:
— Capt. William “Billy” Hutchinson, 48, 30 years of service.
— Capt. Mike Benke, 49, 29 years.
— Capt. Louis Mulkey, 34, 11 1/2 years.
— Engineer Mark Kelsey, 40, 12 1/2 years.
— Engineer Bradford “Brad” Baity, 37, 9 years.
— Assistant Engineer Michael French, 27, 18 months.
— Firefighter James “Earl” Drayton, 56, 32 years.
— Firefighter Brandon Thompson, 27, 4 years.
— Firefighter Melvin Champaign, 46, 2 years.
___
Source: Charleston County Coroner’s Office.
source: Newsvine
Amen, Repub. Shitty way to go – burning. They died serving.
Good on ya Tom! And good on the KEC! You’ve come a long way baby!
Hello, Bush-watchers.
Today’s Bush Family Evil Empire: Scandal Du Jour comes from a great American and Texan, Jim Hightower.
Question: how many soldiers have been killed in Bush’s illegal and immoral war in Iraq?
Answer: The official number is a lie. The 3,500 and more on the death list are only the soldiers in the military. The second biggest army in Iraq is not the British or any other country, it is the 30 some thousand private contractors, many of whom carry guns, wear body armor and get blown up just like soldiers.
******
CASUALTIES OF BUSH’S CONTRACT ARMYWednesday, June 20, 2007Posted by Jim Hightower
Here comes another dirty little secret about the Bushites’ disastrous Iraq war: Many more American troops have died there than they have admitted. These troops aren’t part of the Army or other official military units.
They are part of the hidden “contract army” that Bush has quietly sent to war. While there are about 150,000 U.S. military personnel in Iraq, there are more than 120,000 other men and women serving alongside the military, but drawing their paychecks through such Pentagon contractors as Halliburton, Blackwater, DynCorp, and Custer Battles.
Bush’s corporate army not only provides support services – including doing laundry, serving meals and delivering water – but it also is engaged in such direct military functions as interrogating prisoners, training the Iraq army, guarding the Green Zone, protecting military convoys, analyzing intelligence, and providing paramilitary security.
These are hired hands, not soldiers, and mostly they lack the training, discipline, and equipment of the regular forces – yet they’re thrown into the same deadly environment, getting shot, bombed, maimed, and killed. Yet, the Bushites don’t even keep count of them. A spokesman coldly says: “There is no requirement for the U.S. government to track these numbers.”
Excuse me, but they’re not numbers. They are people. And the Labor Department, which receivess workers compensation claims, has quietly recorded that at least 917 of these people have died in Bush’s war. Another 12,000 have been wounded in battle or injured on the job. That’s about one-third more causalities than the Bushites have told us about – a hidden toll of this awful war, and another measure of its deceit and immorality.
Read more athttp://jimhightower.com/node/6148
This has been your Bush Family Evil Empire: Scandal Du Jour–paying big bucks to crony companies so that their employees can get killed and no one has to notice.
Besides, there are plenty more untrained, inexperienced warm bodies where those came from in George W. Bush’s economy . . .
Wahoo TOM! Unfortunately your victory may be visited in the courts. See what made the headlines of USA Today. These hate laws are hurting people.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-06-19-domestic-couples_N.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-06-19-ohio-domestic_N.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-06-19-domestic-side_N.htm
It looks like Jim Hightower helped to get Bush elected the first time. Thank you, Jim!
“In 2000, he joined with talk show host Phil Donahue and actress Susan Sarandon to co-chair the presidential campaign of Ralph Nader. He also appeared at Nader’s “super-rallies” and stumped across the country for him.”
“The powers of financial capitalism had another far reaching aim, nothing less that to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole.”1996 from Tragedy and Hope
“We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto determination practiced in the past centuries.”1991 David Rockerfeller Trilateral Commission Founder
“Today, America would be outraged if UN troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow, they will be grateful!This would be especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated that threatened our very existence.It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil.The only thing man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee if their well-being granted to them by a world government.”Henry Kissinger 1991
“In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single global authority. National sovereignty wasn’t such a great idea after all.”Strobe Talbot Fmr. US Deputy Sec. of State 1992
“We are not going to achieve a new world order without paying for it in blood as well as words and money.”Arthur Schlesinger US Historian 1995
The firefighter deaths are a national tragedy.
Well, here ya go. The result of all the gop, kkkarl rove, fundie christian political work to pass hate amendments and to work against domestic partner registries.
You christians must be ever so proud of this. Please read the comments as well.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×1142773
Oh, but we are NEVER denied our civil rights by the christian taliban. No. not ever…
PoliticalMom
Agreed.
By the way speaking of deaths…I want to know why there is a push for the owner of that drag car that careened into a crowd killing people in Tennessee to be charged with a crime, yet, the ones killed at airshows are never?
Isn’t it the same thing? Why can’t we simply have accidents anymore? No matter how we try, humans are fallable- even when you think you’re doing everything right.
It can’t happen to you…famous last words.
I hope the Lawerence registry starts a wave across Kansas and we can reverse the awful decision to ban consenting adults from choosing what they desire to unite under a legal partnership known as marriage.
Thanks Tom for spreading the information. Let’s get a registry here in Wichita.
I also wanted to give a shout out to the brave men and women who fought against the establishment of nepotism and cronisim yesterday.
The progressive and liberal Technical and Professional Workers at Boeing Wichita did the right thing and kicked out the union. They understand by representing themselves, their opportunities for advancement, greater pay and benefits are coming their way. I hope their courageous victory will spread across Wichita and we can get rid of the corrupt Mob of the Union Establishment once and for all.
Wichita will begin to attract more aviation companies and more employment as a result. Boeing Wichita has been shedding jobs for many years may start to turn around and hire again from this move.
It’s a wonderful day for Boeing Wichita. :)
You christians must be ever so proud of this. Please read the comments as well.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×1142773
Oh, but we are NEVER denied our civil rights by the christian taliban. No. not ever…
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | June 20, 2007 at 10:16 AM
ksfarmgrrl-
BS and you know it. I personally don;t know of ANY Christians that would be proud of this, once again the wide paint brush that is plain bs and you know it. And while the CHristian taliban might be a handy name that you and others like to use, you and I both know that there is no correlation. The fact that you even open your mouth to speak in the way you do would be enough for an honor killing for the Taliban.
While there is plenty of bs rhetoric on the right, neither is there any limit of it on the left, either.
“You christians must be ever so proud of this.”
Here’s the full story. See if you can find Christian, conservative, Taliban or anything else other than a hospital employee maybe making a poor choice.
The story also didn’t make any mention of the patient’s state. Was she being prepped for surgery? Would any visitors have been allowed in?
Nope, must be the Christian Taliban though.
miamiherald.com/459/story/144992.html
Ok guys get real. HATE amendments pass because kkkarl rove thought it up, and fundamentalist christians who want their religion installed as the official theocracy (remind you of the taliban?) have wrapped their arms around the hate amendments.
This story is the result of christians and their hate amendments. Rove worshipers and their hate amendments.
Sorry christians. You cant run from the hate amendments. Your fingerprints are ALL over them. If you are a christian who opposes discrimination, you largely let the talibaners among you slam these hate amendments through, either actively by giving money and supporting the haters, or passively by silently letting the talibaners among you do the dirty work.
LJ, with all due respect, the taliban wants THEIR brand of religion and THEIR brand of god to be the rule of secular law.
Gee. See any resemblence among christians who want to do the same?
There is no non-religious arguement against equal treatment under the law for gay marriages. I think that qualifies as installing your religion as secular law.
Just like the taliban.
And nice job of deflecting attention from the real damage hate amendments do, and focusing on your hurt feelings when the fruits of christian hate are exposed.
Sorry. Go back and read. Then tell me how proud you all are of the passage of your hate amendments.
Jesus WEPT!
Yes, please do read the ENTIRE story. Here’s a LIVE link so you can just click.
http://miamiherald.com/459/story/144992.html
I just LOVE this part solly:
“From The Olympian: “Langbehn, a social worker, said officials at . . . [JMH] did not recognize her or their jointly adopted children as part of Pond’s family. They were not allowed to be with her . . . and Langbehn’s authority to make decisions for Pond was not recognized . . .
“Even after a friend in Olympia faxed the legal documents that showed that Pond had authorized Langbehn to make medical decisions for her, Langbehn said she wasn’t invited to be with her partner or told anything about her condition. She said she wasn’t allowed to see Pond again until a priest arrived to give . . . Last Rites.”
Washington ”is one of a half-dozen states to recognize same-sex partnerships in some fashion, Florida is not,” the article adds.”
Do you STILL need evidence of the harm caused by non-uniform marriage rights when they are left to the states and not the feds?
See the very real damage?
See the very real damage of installing christian theology in our state constitutions?
No, probably not.
And lj, I didnt brand ALL christians as talibaners. But if that’s how you chose to read it, and if the shoe fits….
I guess I know I hit a truth nerve.
And Bill Clinton signed off on this law. Damn Clinton Taliban. Damn democratic Taliban!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act
The sad truth is, gay and lesbian Americans are kept every day from being at their partners sides by hospital administrators and staff. This isn’t a make-believe problem. It’s real, and it brutalizes families when people are at their most emotionally vulnerable.
The worst offenders are those that have the strongest religious affiliations, especially Catholic hospitals. Even though I had full medical power of attorney for my former partner, the management of one such hospital did everything they could to keep me from his side.
Farmgrrl’s “Taliban” call may be a little over the top (love ya anyway, Farmgrrl), but the point she’s making is valid. Anti-gay rhetoric and anti-gay legislation makes it very, very easy for people to discriminate.
People can say it’s just one hospital employee with poor judgment, but the facts of the experiences of gay and lesbian Americans say otherwise.
I’ve posted before, Farmie, I don’t give a rat’s ass who marries whom as long as they are of age.
I’m just sick of hearing how EVERYTHING is the republican’s fault or Christian’s fault.
How about this one Farmie, how about if instead of whipping out that broad paint brush, you stop and think there might be some atheists and democrats that don’t believe in gay unions as well.
Buddha wept.
ksfarmgrrl-
I have already stated my position on allowing gay/lesbian marriage. I will do so again. —–The State has no compelling reason, hence NO reason, to not allow gay/lesbian marriages. However, Ido not agree that because someone believes thatmarriage should be limited to a union between a man and a union automatically HATE anyone. Your HATRED of anyone who disagrees with you, and will publicly say so, blinds you to the fact that as far as I know, which I understand is limited, no society has ever recognized a gay/lesbian marriage on a large scale. This is a relatively new development, and to propound it as trying to remove your rights to a marriage is nonsense. You seek to gaina newly recognized right. I agree, but let us not characterize if for what it is not.
You are right in your partial assessment of the Taliban, although that is not the whole story and you know it. The methodology of how they wish to do so is just as important.And while I agree that there are many in the Christian world would like to see the country adopt their values wholesale, there are many that aren;t interested. There are many nonreligious that would like to impose thier worldview, same as islamists, etc.My feelings aren’t hurt. I am just tired of the hate and misrepresentation that goes on here. It seems that the only ones able to be called bad names is Christians and I will not stand by and let that slide. This world is much ablaze simply for the fact that because a , or even many _____s, does something, all ______s agree and therefore we must put down the _____S.
The sad truth is, gay and lesbian Americans are kept every day from being at their partners sides by hospital administrators and staff. This isn’t a make-believe problem. It’s real, and it brutalizes families when people are at their most emotionally vulnerable.
The worst offenders are those that have the strongest religious affiliations, especially Catholic hospitals. Even though I had full medical power of attorney for my former partner, the management of one such hospital did everything they could to keep me from his side.
Posted by: Tom | June 20, 2007 at 11:13 AM
That is equally BS. I am sorry that such a thing has happened. I for one, have publicly stated here and elewhere that gays and lesbians should have the same relationship opportunities, rights and rites, available to them as anyone else.
Well solly, once again, if the shoe fits….
Post where I said EVERYTHING is republican or christian fault. You cant do it because I didnt say it.
But the hate amendments, sorry. Those are the children of BOTH republicans and radical christians. Who gets credit if not them? Muslims? Terrorists?
Nope. Hate amendments are children conceived by the GOP and nurtured by fundie christians.
And solly, are you also literally blind as well as intellectually blind? I already took the kansas democrats to task about a thousand times for THEIR role in kansas’ hate amendment. But please feel free to ignore the facts.
The Clinton taliban? Oh PLEASE. You cant have it both ways solly. Either Clinton was an evil non christian man who persecuted the conservatively religious…
or
he was a real christian trying to impose his christian faith as law.
It cant be both. And I’ve also noted that both parties worship the almighty dollar. If the christian fundies didnt dump cash into the party coffers, NEITHER party would give a rat’s ass about them.
Just makes them part of K Street as far as I’m concerned.
Interesting …
NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg leaves GOP
http://www.kansas.com/wireupdates/story/101200.html
Third-aprty run? Also interesting that Schwarzenegger was pictured with him.
lj
“I have already stated my position on allowing gay/lesbian marriage. I will do so again. —–The State has no compelling reason, hence NO reason, to not allow gay/lesbian marriages.”
Did I call YOU a talibaner? No. Because YOU are not a talibaner, I’m not allowed to say that talibaner christians exist? Do you see the problem with that?
“Your HATRED of anyone who disagrees with you”
Nice meme lj that both you and gmc try to use on me all the time. I have good conversations HERE with folks who disagree with me. I dont give a happy buggered rat who agrees with me and who doesnt.
What I DO have a problem with is folks pushing their religion on me when I do not chose it.
So gay rights are new? We should proceed at a snail’s pace because it is new? It shouldnt be done because it hasnt’ been done before?
Good thing all the NATIONS, like Spain, South Africa, Canada, et al. dont think like THAT! I’d say there is a real international movement to recognize gay marriages.
But her in the good ol’ US of A, we gotta contend with the bible thumpers before we can grant human rights to ALL Americans.
And if the “newness” of rights is important, I guess slaves would have NEVER gotten rights in the US.
After all, the concept of freedom for slaves, for equal protection under the law for slaves, would never have happened. After all, it was a “new” idea in America.
If you are not a christian talibaner, if you dont hate gays, dont take offense. If you dont want christians condemned for the TRUTH of what they say and do, then get them to stop saying and doing it.
Like I say, the haters can be supported actively, and they can also be supported passively. You know, like when “Good people do nothing”?
“You are right in your partial assessment of the Taliban, although that is not the whole story and you know it. The methodology of how they wish to do so is just as important.”
Oh, so the “means” justifies the end? In the end, both of these groups, the facist christians and the taliban want the same end. Their religion installed as law.
The only difference is “how” they do it? The end result is the same.
Thanks for clearing that up :)
“You christians must be ever so proud of this. Please read the comments as well.”
Pretty much everything you bash has a religious or conservative slam attached Farmie. You know it as well as anyone.
Bill Clinton? I think he was a lot of things. I don’t have to narrow those opinions down to your two options. Was he Christian? I think he was, can’t really be sure. Was he a fundie. By no means. And yet he still passed the law you are complaining about.
So as he passed the law, why are you bitching about Christians, making up names for organized Christianity, when the real focus of the issue is the man that passed the law?
I’d like to ‘ditto’ Republican’s comments about those brave firefighters who made the ultimate sacrifice in South carolina – and to firefighters everywhere.
“The sad truth is, gay and lesbian Americans are kept every day from being at their partners sides by hospital administrators and staff. This isn’t a make-believe problem. It’s real, and it brutalizes families when people are at their most emotionally vulnerable.
The worst offenders are those that have the strongest religious affiliations, especially Catholic hospitals. Even though I had full medical power of attorney for my former partner, the management of one such hospital did everything they could to keep me from his side.
Posted by: Tom | June 20, 2007 at 11:13 AM
That is equally BS.Posted by: littlejohn | June 20, 2007 at 11:22 AM
So LJ, exactly WHAT part of Tom’s post was BS?
The rest of the post…
I am sorry that such a thing has happened. I for one, have publicly stated here and elewhere that gays and lesbians should have the same relationship opportunities, rights and rites, available to them as anyone else.
Posted by: littlejohn | June 20, 2007 at 11:22 AM
“So as he passed the law,”
Solly, once again, you are mixing up the doma law and HATE amendments to the STATE constitutions. Do you really NOT understand the difference?
And if doma is so good, why the need to amend state constitutions? That was the kansas DEMOCRAT position as VOICED by sebelius.
I have not held back on my words about clinton and democrats and doma. Post where I gave him a pass on that. It has nothing to do with the discussion.
And… last I checked… the Big Dog is a church goin’, bible carryin’, self proclaimed christian.
So we have yet another christian elected official supporting unequal treatment under the law for gay folks.
Color me surprised.
Thanks for making my point solly.
you dont want christians condemned for the TRUTH of what they say and do, then get them to stop saying and doing it.
Okay,I give. Since i speak my mind, and they don;t listen, how would you suggest that I get them to stop saying it.
“Nice meme lj that both you and gmc try to use on me all the time. I have good conversations HERE with folks who disagree with me.”
Really, I am not sure that I have ever used it,but I could have. And you are the one that used the word haters for those who disagree with you. There is a difference. And yeah, we often disagree onissues, but we have had good discussions. Very well, I take it back and apologize for being so general.
I do not support the “haters” actively or passively. I actively disagree with them here, and within my own social circle.
My point about newness was not to denigrate it in any way, but just to point out that their are millions of people who cannot be classified by any name whodo not want change, and that is what gay marriage is, change. It is not something that has been taken away, but something that is being sought. I do not agree with those who seek to stop change, just because. how limiting in thought that is.
I have many christian friends that oppose gay marriage. They do not hate anyone. They are simply wrong.
So LJ, exactly WHAT part of Tom’s post was BS?
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | June 20, 2007 at 11:38 AM
What happened to him was BS, and I would say it to the hospital officials. Sorry if I wsn;t clear.
So what solly? LJ should STILL answer the question about what part of TOM’S post was BS?
I already acknowledged LJ for his progressive stance on gay rights. I’m not dissing him personally. He takes offense because I am dissing the christians behind this discrimination.
If the shoe fits….
And once again, nice use of the meme that I hate folks who disagree with me.
“real focus of the issue is the man that passed the law?”
WTF? Just because YOU want to make everything about Clinton doesnt mean I do. The issue is NOT the man that passed the law. He SIGNED the law. It was the conservative republican CONGRESS that passed the law.
Goddam solly. Do you even read your posts?
And once again
If the law had not been passed Farmie, then Florida would have had to recognize the Washington union.
Okay, to make it PERFECTLY clear–
“Even though I had full medical power of attorney for my former partner, the management of one such hospital did everything they could to keep me from his side.”
Their (the hospital’s actions) is completely BULLSHIT! They should never have interfered wether or not he had full medical power of attorney. SInce he did, it was evern MORE BULLSHIT
Is that clear enough?
Ok LJ. I am glad you cleared it up. Sorry if I miss interpreted. I thought you were saying Tom’s post was BS.
My POINT in all this, is that the folks who say civil unions are good enough for gays, the folks who say “have a lawyer draw up the paper work and you can have legal rights” are all full of CRAP!
This is a hard fact, real life example of the UNequal protection under the law gay folks get. “Lawyer papers” did NOTHING for this couple. Their domestic partnership registration meant NOTHING here.
This is the problem with SOME states recognizing our rights and OTHER states not. Loving v Virginia and all.
It is so much easier to whine about how christians are painted with a broad brush. Does anyone REALLY think that if the taliban christians were removed from the equation that the hate amendments would have spread like wildfire?
Really?
Funny. In over 200 years of history in our nation, the constitution was NOT used to DENY rights. It was used to grant them.
Maybe we should “go slow” with using the constitution to DENY rights, I mean, since it is a new concept and all… :)
Sorry LJ, I couldnt resist.
You all can defend christianity all you want. It doesnt erase the very real harm those practicing taliban christians have done.
If you want credit for the good christianity has done, you also have to shoulder the burden of the BAD it has done.
Can I get a “hell yeah” for Tom and KEC?? Woot-woot!
“If the law had not been passed Farmie, then Florida would have had to recognize the Washington union.
Posted by: SolDevVB | June 20, 2007 at 11:47 AM
No shit solly.
And it was passed by a conservative REPUBLICAN congress. But oh no, republicans cant be blamed for the hate amendment wildfire. Oh no….
And still no acknowledgement from you that THIS is why marriage laws need to be uniform and not vary from state to state?
Avoiding the issue of the very real harm it does?
“He takes offense because I am dissing the christians behind this discrimination”
No, actually, I am standing up for christians, many of whom disagree with this discrimination, many of whom agree, but do not hate gays/lesbians.
I know ksfarmgrrl did not mean me personally, we have had this conversation (gay/lesbian marriage) before. She knows where I stand on the issue.
And I have already apologized for my one remark, I shall do so again
“And yeah, we often disagree onissues, but we have had good discussions. Very well, I take it back and apologize for being so general”
“Maybe we should “go slow” with using the constitution to DENY rights, I mean, since it is a new concept and all… :)
Sorry LJ, I couldnt resist.”
Good one, actually
“Does anyone REALLY think that if the taliban christians were removed from the equation that the hate amendments would have spread like wildfire?
Really?”
Yes and no. WHile I object to “taliban” i will argue the point, not the wording. I think there are two factors at work here. One is indeed the more fundamental and controlling brand of Christian. They are wrong and those of us who believe otherwise should not tire of telling them so. Two) there is a large backlash against the judiciary, who have substituted their proper roles as adjudicators with their percieved roles as agents of social change.RIghtly or wrongly, issues get tangled together, forming the “wildfire” that you see.
Thanks LJ. You know I enjoy blogging with you.
And just incase you think I’m getting soft in my old age….
“many of whom agree, but do not hate gays/lesbians”
I am about as tired of the “hate the sin but love the sinner” meme as you are tired of “all christians are bad” meme.
I really dont hate bush. I just hate the sins he commits…. :)
Any one who reads my posts knows THAT is as big a whopper as the folks who post “we dont hate gays, we just hate their sin”.
“RIghtly or wrongly, issues get tangled together, forming the “wildfire” that you see.”
Then you see, I guess, how “christians” get “tangled together” with hatred of gays.
And the “backlash” against the judiciary, it seems to me, is generated by the fundamentalist christian anti choice crowd. In otherwords, the “controlling” christians.
I dont hear too many gay folks complaining about the judiciary.
We see Lawrence v Texas as the judiciary upholding the constitution. Some talibaners see it as destroying states’rights and judicial overreaching.
Once again, it’s all a matter of perspective.
as big a whopper as the folks who post “we dont hate gays, we just hate their sin”.
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | June 20, 2007 at 12:05 PM
Let me put it into another context. I would hate it if my children or a friends child had moved in with her significant other without the benefit of marriage. I would never hate either one.I do agree, however, that some use it as a smokescreen.
Oh, and Lynz?
HELL YEAH for Tom and the KEC.
And seriously, you should ALL remember my opinions are my own and not those of Tom, KEC or any other person or organization. They are mine and mine alone.
How’s THAT for taking personal responsibility?
I dont hear too many gay folks complaining about the judiciary.
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | June 20, 2007 at 12:09
Too bad, really. They should. Consider Kelso v Conneticut as one example.
Alright farmie, you got me on that one.
Had the DOMA NOT passed, do you think the Florida issue would have still been? It sounds like personal preferences to me – the social worker.
And to that point, why was she talking to a social worker and not a nurse or doctor? I have visited many people in hospitals. Not once has my relation to the patient been questioned (male and female patients alike)
“Oh, and Lynz?
HELL YEAH for Tom and the KEC.”
You bet. I think I might send a check.
Farmie, you are lumping pro-LIFERS and anti gay together. I am pro life and (while not pro-gay) support unions and or gay marriage.
Shame farmie ;-)
“And to that point, why was she talking to a social worker and not a nurse or doctor?”
Uh, maybe because they ignored her legal documents and determined she has NO rights?
Docs and nurses and such deal with MEDICAL issues. Denying someone access to their dying partner is evidently deemed a…
SOCIAL ISSUE!!!!!!!
nice job “social” conservatives!
Solly, with all due respect….
If you are not “pro gay” what are you? If not “anti gay” what are you? Just “neutral” on gays?
Just a good man remaining silent to the damage the hate amendments and doma do?
And if you polled the anti choice crowd about how many of them voted FOR the hate amendments in their states what do YOU think you would find?
Once again, not all anti choicers are anti gay. And not all pro gay are anti choice.
Mary Caruso is a GREAT example. She is pro gay and anti abortion. At least I think she is. I hope I’m not putting words in her mouth, but she has always been very supportive of gays in her posts.
heheheheh jan pauls, candy ruff, eber phelps, dennis mckinney should ALSO be so very proud of the damage hate amendments cause.
Like in this case. Funny, very few here have acknowledge the role hate amendments play is this tragedy.
I am not pro-gay, I am anti-label. That work for you Farmie? How about we quit labeling the citizens of the US as one flavor or another and all just be Americans – WITH THE SAME RIGHTS.
That’s what I support.
Oh yea, and nathan says he just doesnt want the “state” sanctioning the “gay lifestyle”.
SO, the law you and yours passed to stop the state from “sanctioning” something?
It resulted in this tragedy. So the state instead “sanctions” this.
We see what you voted for…
Are you referring to me Farmie?
I can agree on not liking “false” labels. But people cant run from the truth of what they are and what they support.
No label fits anyone exclusively. We are all many things not one thing.
But you do oppose a woman’s right to chose. You do support legislation that denies gay partners equal protection under the law.
Those are facts, not labels.
So I’m fine with not using false labels. But I am NOT infavor of denial about the truth. A rose by any other name and all.
But….
I dont give a shit WHAT you call terry, joe, and phred . They are still christians who support using constitutions to deny americans equal protection under the law.
And those are FACTS not labels.
Farmie,
OK, I have pretty much disbanded from the current GOP and am leaning more towards Libertarian. On the face, having each decide for itself sounds perfect to me and absolutely constitutional. But in the case you describe, I can see the detriment. So, I would say proceed with caution and that the DOMA did more harm than good.
I don’t support the rights of a woman to choose to kill an unborn child on nothing more than a “whim”. You can call it anything you like, but to me, that is what it boils down to. I do support abortion when it comes to the life of the mother and rape/incest cases. So by your ideals that may be anti-choice or anti-woman. By the same token, I could use the label of anti-life or anti-children on you as you have absolutely no room in your beliefs for the rights of the unborn children.
To those truths I hold firm. Label or no label.
*each state
Fine solly. But now do you also understand why Ron Paul’s use of the term “family values” is a red flag to any gay person in the country? Why we think he is NUTS to think that ALL issues belong to the states?
“as you have absolutely no room in your beliefs for the rights of the unborn children”
I have respect for actual babies and CHILDREN. I also have respect for fetuses.
I just dont think unborn fetuses have legal rights that supercede the rights of the BORN and LIVING.
But thanks for labeling that as “anti-life or anti-children”. And for reading my mind about respect.
I thought YOU wanted to be anti label. But I see clearly now that YOU dont want to be labeled falsely but you dont mind at all doing it to others. :)
There is already an abortion thread today. I defer to that thread…
Fine with me solly, but remember YOU brought abortion to the discussion on this thread. Not me.
Fine solly. But now do you also understand why Ron Paul’s use of the term “family values” is a red flag to any gay person in the country? Why we think he is NUTS to think that ALL issues belong to the states?Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | June 20, 2007 at 12:47 PM
A) Family Values. Yes Ron Paul is a Christian (just like every candidate from both parties AFAIK). But as he is a strict constitutionalist, he will not get involved in the pro-choice/pro-life issue.
B) Any issue not covered by the constitution is a state’s matter. That is not new. That is outlined in the constitution. The Supreme Court decides if legislation is constitutional while the congress can pass legislation on a national level.
On another note, on the CCH thread we are trying to get a shooting match organized between the conservatives and the liberals. It will be held at the Lake Afton Observatory Shooting Range.
So far we have Nathan, GM70 and me on the conservative side.
We are offering instruction and practice for anyone else and I think .morg and his boy are interested in coming for that.
So far we have no liberals stepping up to the challenge.
After the match we’ll go to my neighborhood’s club house on the lake and have a BBQ.
Hank
The bill was passed by Congress by a vote of 85-14 in the Senate[1] and a vote of 342-67 in the House of Representatives[2], and was signed by President Bill Clinton on September 21, 1996.
Sol – This was obviously passed by an overwhelming majority, do you think that Clinton should have vetoed it so that Congress would have had to override the veto. Is that one of the battles that you think Clinton should have fought, against obviously, looking at the numbers, staggering odds?
If he held the view that the bill was wrong, then it was his JOB to veto it. If it were to be overturned later, so be it.
If you were in a crowd of 100 people walking off a cliff would you do the same?
Clinton should have vetoed the DOMA and defied Congress to override his veto. Many liberals, this one included, have never forgiven Clinton for Don’t Ask and DOMA.
Contrary to conservative opinion, we do not all walk in lockstep to worship at the Altar of Clinton.
Interesting Hank, I’d like to come out and meet you, Nathan and GMC. Nathan can watch my back. :)
I’m horrible with a handgun and probably a rifle now as it has been years since I fired either. Besides holding myself up and shooting with any accuracy would be a neat trick. :D
Well Republican,
You can still eat a cheeseburger, can’t you? We’ll have a cook out later.
Hank
Hank – my punk kid and I might find that fun! (My punk kis and your punk kid would get along fine! :^))
It has been YEARS since I have done any shooting.
And the Republican “Culture of Corruption” continues…….
The South Carolina Law Enforcement Division has just announced that State Treasurer Thomas Ravenel has been indicted by federal jury on cocaine distribution charges. Ravenel, who was elected last fall, was named the Chairman of presidential candidate Rudy Giualiani’s (R-N.Y.) South Carolina campaign in April.
“And the Republican “Culture of Corruption” continues…”
Rudy (like Bloomburg) don’t count at Repubs.
fleettwood you completely missed it– State Treasurer Thomas Ravenel is another Republican crook.
“State Treasurer Thomas Ravenel is another Republican crook.”
Cocaine doesn’t count either.
Is this farmgrrl chick always such an hysterical moron? WOW!!
You bet. I think I might send a check.Posted by: littlejohn | June 20, 2007 at 12:15 PM
Our mailing address:
Kansas Equality Coalition6505 E. Central #219Wichita, KS 67206
:)
Cocaine doesn’t count either.Posted by: fleettwood
Hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha
After a fall of fifty feet, talk about a climax for the ages….
“Coitus interruptus?
Naked couple who fell from roof to their deaths may have been having sex”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19335109/
The only way to go!!!!
Right fleettwood, we all know that taking a bribe is more serious than distributing cocaine.
I just saw this Microscopic Artist story on ABC news. British guy creates art on top of needle heads and inside that thread hole. Incredible!
Check the art out!
http://www.snopes.com/photos/arts/microscopic.asp
In New Jersey, sodomite civil unions forced through the Legislature into state recognition by leftist, activist judges may be used to force the legalizationof the sodomite mockery of marriage, in order to forcecompanies to pay sodomy benefits. Companies with federally regulated benefits can still refuse to paysodomy benefits as yet. Likely, this will not satisfy the pro-sodomy New Jersey Supreme Court.
Jeez, a single paragraph and five references to sodomy, Parkay? Do you have a serious hang up about your back door? Do you keep it triple locked with an alarm system? Armed guards? Pit bull?
You know, Parkay, a good therapist could relieve you of your fears that someone is going to break through your back door and do harm to you.
Perhaps a little quiet time in a sanitarium is in order.
Funny…isn’t parkay what those sodomites use to “smooth” the going?
“in order to force companies to pay sodomy benefits”
By the way, Parkay, what are sodomy benefits?
Are those benefits paid to the sodomer or the sodomee?
I don’t think BJs alone qualify as sodomy….do you think BJ benefits would be OK?
Gee, I wonder if Parkay thinks they should pay heterosexual screwing benefits?
Yep,
but if the heterosexuals are married it IS the same sex…night after night (I know…old joke :-|)
Mrage–Wow–Thanks for the web site.
The question is: is being the sodomer benefit enough?
I want my company to provide paid screwing breaks (but heterosexual only) during the day! Don’t you agree Parkay?!
So, now it’s global COOLING, huh? :)
Read the sunspotsThe mud at the bottom of B.C. fjords reveals that solar output drives climate change – and that we should prepare now for dangerous global coolingR. TIMOTHY PATTERSON, Financial PostPublished: Wednesday, June 20, 2007Politicians and environmentalists these days convey the impression that climate-change research is an exceptionally dull field with little left to discover. We are assured by everyone from David Suzuki to Al Gore to Prime Minister Stephen Harper that “the science is settled.” At the recent G8 summit, German Chancellor Angela Merkel even attempted to convince world leaders to play God by restricting carbon-dioxide emissions to a level that would magically limit the rise in world temperatures to 2C.http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/comment/story.html?id=597d0677-2a05-47b4-b34f-b84068db11f4&p=4
Can someone cue up the Doors song “Backdoor Man” for parkay?
Republicans love to belly ache about Clinton letting satellite trade secrets leak to China, but what are they saying about selling the companies that own military satellite technology to the China government? Nothing.”Finally, Virginia Democratic Sen. Jim Webb on Wednesday asked the SEC, Treasury and Homeland Security Department to look into “national security implications” he said were posed by Chinese government involvement with Blackstone.
Webb wrote a letter to agency heads that said SEC records show Blackstone’s holdings include military and satellite technology companies.
“If true, it is incumbent upon the SEC and the Committee for Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS) to ensure that this technology not be acquired by the government of China,” Webb wrote in his letter.
Blackstone agreed in May to sell a $3 billion stake to China’s state investment company ahead of its IPO, and Webb asked the SEC to delay the IPO until “serious questions about this transaction can be carefully examined and resolved.”
Reuters PicturesEditors Choice: Best picturesfrom the last 24 hours.View Slideshow
He said he was concerned about “the enormity of this public offering, and the large investment from a foreign government.”
Blackstone declined to comment on the letter, as did the SEC.”
Bush would force Americans to present passports when coming back into the country after visiting Canada, or Mexico, but would give amnesty to Mexicans that entered without a passport. Something’s wrong with this picture!
Mrage! Thanks for the website. Very cool indeed!
“Congressman William Jefferson, Democrat from Louisiana has been charged with racketeering, soliciting bribes, wire fraud, money laundering, obstruction of justice and conspiracy almost two years after the FBI found $90,000 in cash in his freezer. The charges could result in a prison sentence of upto 235 years. It is likely that the House Ethics committee will look into kicking Congressman Jefferson out of Congress.”source: The Election Guide
New Immigration Bill Introduced by House Republicanshttp://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2287
WASHINGTON—In an attempt to derail the compromise immigration bill working its way through the Senate, a group of House Republicans unveiled an alternative measure Tuesday that takes a harder line against immigration that would block illegal immigrants from becoming citizens while directing the Bush administration to enforce current laws.
Called the Secure Borders FIRST Act, the new bill focuses on improving security at the border, stiffening sanctions for employers who hire illegal immigrants, and establishing a market-based temporary guest worker program, which would allow immigrants into the country on 10-month renewable visas. It also increases penalties for gang membership and identity theft, and establishes English as the official language of the United States.
June 19, 2007Karoun DemirjianWashington Bureau
Need a law that if someone in the family is in a gang, no citenship, and deportation. Hey, even apply it to people who are already citizens!
He just can’t get over losing us
And so if he seems broken and blue
Walk on by, walk on by
“Congressman William Jefferson”
That’s all you got? Sad…
Walk on by…
Roberts should take a clue from his fellow Republicans.http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/19/politics/politico/main2948111.shtml
Wonderful, Thanks so much for maintaining this blog.
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