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Open thread 6/19
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted June 19, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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Bush Family Evil Empire: Scandal Du Jour–
White House aides’ e-mail records gone
Posted July 19
WASHINGTON (AP) — E-mail records are missing for 51 of the 88 White House officials who had electronic message accounts with the Republican National Committee, the House Oversight Committee said Monday.
The Bush administration may have committed “extensive” violations of a law requiring that certain records be preserved, said the committee’s Democratic chairman, adding that the panel will deepen its probe into the use of political e-mail accounts.
The committee’s interim report said the number of White House officials who had RNC e-mail accounts, and the number of messages they sent and received, were more extensive than previously realized.
The administration has said that about 50 White House officials had RNC e-mail accounts during Bush’s presidency. But the House committee found at least 88.
“Given the heavy reliance by White House officials on RNC e-mail accounts, the high rank of the White House officials involved, and the large quantity of missing e-mails,” the report said, “the potential violation of the Presidential Records Act may be extensive.”
The records act requires presidents to assure that “the activities, deliberations, decisions, and policies that reflect the performance” of their duties are “adequately documented … and maintained,” the report said.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-06-18-white-house-emails_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip
*****
Why is this a big deal?
Because a law was passed to ensure that presidents (even pResidents) have to keep their correspondence open and above-board.
Since Worst President Ever and his staff are the very epitome of behind-closed-doors and under-the-table, they of course ignore the law and actively set up e-mail addresses to skirt the law.
This has been another–and they just keep coming, don’t they, folks?–Bush Family Evil Empire: Scandal Du Jour.
Take the Quiz on the Bush Administration’s War of the Words!
TomDispatch.com via Alternet – Jun 18, 2007http://www.alternet.org/story/54315/
Take the Quiz on the Bush Administration’s War of the Words
By Tom Engelhardt and Nicholas Turse
>From “mission accomplished” through those endless “turning points” and “tipping points” up to the “brink” of “the abyss” and “the precipice,” and back again, American officials, military and civilian, in Baghdad and Washington, have never spared the images or the analogies. (Do you remember when our President and Secretary of Defense, for instance, were eagerly talking about taking those “training wheels” off the Iraqi “bicycle” and letting the Iraqi child pedal on his own into Democracy-land?) Reality be damned, they’ve had a remarkable way, over the last four years, of turning phrases and pretzeling language to suit their needs and the needs of a war that existed largely in their imaginations rather than on the ground. In recent months, backs against the verbal wall, these spinmeisters have begun spinning ever more wildly — mixing metaphors, grasping at rhetorical straws, and stretching credulity at every turn, if not turning point.
In an effort to analyze this latest surge of sophistry — a war of words always fought with the “home front” in mind — we’ve come up with a short quiz that places genuine quotes from actual military commanders and Washington officials alongside quotes we’ve spun from our own questionable brains. We challenge you to pick the real ones. Did an American general in Iraq liken the situation there to a pogo stick, a teeter-totter, a slinky, or a jungle gym? It’s your choice. Did George Tenet’s “slam dunk” line inspire current Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to use basketball analogies, when speaking of “security” in the Middle East, or did he flee to the football field of life?
Take this TomDispatch quiz and see if you can guess which quotes are too wild, or not wild enough, for the battling bureaucrats of the Bush administration. Let’s start with a warm-up round:
1. At his January confirmation hearings, General David Petraeus,readying himself to command the President’s “troop surge” in Baghdad and al-Anbar Province, promised to offer Congress periodic reports on how the plan was proceeding. No dates were offered. Within months, however, this vague promise had morphed into a specific Septemberreport to Congress and has now become a focus of endless,near-obsessional media attention and questions.
Is this September report regularly referred to as:
A. A Disaster Report
B. A Regress Report
C. A Baghdad Report
D. A Progress Report
The answer, of course, is D. And now that “victory” — a word thePresident once used 15 times in a single speech — has left theadministration’s fighting language, think of “progress” as the second team of words. No matter how badly things are going, “progress” (or itslack) remains the frame of reference for U.S. officials — and for reporters asking questions. Typically, in a May 31st press briefing, Lt. Gen. Ray Odierno, Petraeus’s second-in-command in Baghdad, and the reporters questioning him, managed to use the word no less than 23 times. (”We’ve made some very clear progress…. Anbar’s economic and political progress…. But progress has been made…. Every day we are making progressâ?]”)
Now, let’s make the questions just a tad harder.
2. Spokesman for the American military command in Iraq, Brig. Gen. Kevin Bergner, was recently asked about “progress” in the “Baghdad security situation.” He responded:
A. “Progress will not be like flipping a light switch — it will be gradual, it will be nuanced, it will be subtle.”
B. “Progress is going to seem like a balky jeep. It will stall, it will kick, but sooner or later it will lurch forward.”
C. “Progress isn’t like a faucet. You can’t just turn it on and get hot water.”
D. “Progress will not be like a cruise missile. You can’t just fire and forget.”
The answer is A — and, by the way, General Bergner, the last one out of Baghdad, please turn off the lights. (Oh, sorry, we never got them on in the first place.)
Now, here’s your next puzzler and it’s you against the mob.
3. Another reporter with “progress” on the brain recently asked Secretary of Defense Robert Gates whether “the pace of progress [in Iraq] is sufficient or whether in fact it looks to you like the surge will have to last longer.”
Gates responded with which of these images?
A. “I don’t think that the goalpost has changed, really, at all.”
B. “I think it’s all still in the same ball park.”
C. “There is a Baghdad clock and there is a Washington clock, and the people in Washington are also going to have to take into account the Washington clock…. Our military commanders should not have to worry about the Washington clock. That’s for us in Washington to worry about.”
If you guessed A, congratulations, you’re right! Of course, if you guessed either B or C, you’re still right. Gates used them all in the same press briefing on the same subject.
4. Actually, our Secretary of Defense seems to love sports imagery. Recently, explaining why a “long-term U.S. military presence” in the oil heartlands of the planet was crucial, Gates used which of the following sports analogies?
A. “It’s important to remember that the September re-assessment is only the seventh-inning stretch, not the bottom of the ninth. Using the Korea model as a guide, we might even go into extra innings. We might be in Iraq until at least the bottom of the 15th.”
B. “It’s important to defend this country on the extremists’ 10-yardline and not our 10-yard line”
C. “It’s important for Team USA to win on the road in Iraq andAfghanistan — and we can’t allow the Bin Laden blitz to get into our backfield again.”
D. “It’s important for the insurgents to learn that we’re the Harlem Globetrotters and they’re the Washington Generals. I mean, of course they’re not the literally the Washington Generals. My generals are the Washington generals, but also the Globetrotters. Well, you know what I mean.”
By a process of elimination, you should have quickly reduced thisfoursome to a twosome. Neither baseball, nor basketball is smash-mouth enough for the Global Analogy-War against Terrorism and, in any case, for America’s top officials, football has always been war (and vice-versa). So the answer is B.
5. And how about our military surge leader, General Petraeus, inBaghdad? He’s been fretting about progress too. But what image did he reach for to make his point?
A. “We’re in a horse race now. And our horse in Baghdad is simplyslower than Washington’s. We better figure out how to spike its oats fast.”
B. “I learned at Princeton that there are many ways to measureprogress. As you know you can actually progress backward, and backward progress is progress just the same. The important thing is to keep progressing, whether forward or backward, which we are doing, and in doing so we’re showing the terrorists we’re making progress and that, in itself, is progress.”
C. “Clearly, we’re in the pit and Washington’s the pendulum and webetter figure out how to climb out quick before the next IED goes off.”
D. “We’re racing against the clock, certainly. We’re racing against the Washington clock, the London clock, a variety of other timepieces up there, and we’ve got to figure out how to speed up the Baghdad clock.”
Since these turn out to be the months of onrushing clock analogies, if you guessed D, you’re ticking right along. General Petraeus was evidently the first one to wind up that clock image and set the alarm. It now has all Washington on the clock.
6. U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad Lt. Col. Christopher C. Garver, facing the news that, according to the Washington Post, “May was the third-deadliest month for American troops in Iraq since the 2003 invasion, and the casualties reported over the past few days indicate that the insurgency shows no sign of abating,” had what response?
A. “The road to ruin is paved with cement.”
B. “When the tough get going, the going gets easier.”
C. “This is going to get harder before it gets easier.”
D. “This is going to get harder before it gets harder.”
Given the history of the last four years in Iraq, the answer to this one, hands down, should be D. But reality and history are so overrated! If you guessed C, you were right on the mark. (By the way, few of the examples in this quiz are unique. For instance, just a couple of days after Garver made his comment, Deputy Director for Regional Operations, Joint Chiefs of Staff Brig. Gen. Perry Wiggins said of the surge at a Pentagon news briefing: “So, you know, it’s going to get harder before we make it — or it gets any easier.”)
7. In that same May 31st press briefing, General Odierno (his official title is: Commander, Multinational Corps-Iraq) was asked the following question: “General, it’s Lolita Baldor with the Associated Press. You started out talking about some of the progress but also suggesting that it may take 60 to 90 days before you can see what impact the surge is having. At that pace, do you think you will be able to make an assessment within that 60-day window or do you think it’s going to take longer to assess whether or not the surge is having an impact?”
Odierno responded with which play analogy?
A. “It’s kind of like a jungle gym. Lose your grip past the turning point and you’re likely to fall and hit your head on the ground.”
B. “It’s kind of like a teeter-totter; you work your way up theteeter-totter, and when you go past the tipping point, it happens very quickly, and we’ve seen that out in Anbar.”
C. “It’s kind of like a pogo stick. What goes up must come down â?” and vice-versa. We’ve experienced this in Baghdad.”
D. “It’s kind of like a slinky. A surge begins slowly but as it walks downstairs sooner or later it just springs toward the bottom.”
The correct answer is: B. It seems the official pre-September surge assessment is that we’re on a Baghdad teeter-totter, though our guess is that neighborhood playgrounds in the Iraqi capital aren’t much in use these days.
8. Okay, let’s up the ante here with a two-part question. One aspect of the President’s “surge plan” turns out to involve the hope that the enemy’s counter-surge will smash right into a wall. Literally. The U.S. military has been making plans to build giant walls around whole troubled neighborhoods in the Iraqi capital. Think of giant, grey slabs of concrete going up around your neighborhood. What kind of place, according to the military, do you now live in?
A. A terrarium
B. A prison
C. A gated community
D. A strategic hamlet
If it were 40+ years ago and the setting were Vietnam, D would be the correct euphemism, but today the answer is C naturally. Just like in Southern California! And who wouldn’t want to be part of such an obviously upscale living arrangement?
Of course, you can’t account for the tastes of foreigners. Strangely enough, when the first wall started going up around the Sunni community of Adhamiyah, people objected vociferously, leaving surge types somewhat on the defensive. When pressed on the subject recently, how did Dr. David Kilcullen, an Australian counterterrorism expert whose current position is Senior Counterinsurgency Adviser to General Petraeus (and who also likes to term such walled-in, embattled communities “gated”) sum up the ongoing project?
A. “It’s something you do when a patient is bleeding to death. But you don’t leave it there forever or it causes damage.”
B. “Good fences make good neighbors.”
C. “Something there is that doesn’t love a wall.”
D. “Before I built a wall, I’d ask to know what I was walling in and walling out.”
Yes, indeed, the answer is A. Dr. Kilcullen likes to think of thesewalls as “tourniquets” applied to bleeding Iraq. And you guessed it,the other three lines come from Robert Frost’s poem, “Mending Wall.”
9. Here’s another two-parter. On Friday, Secretary of Defense Gatesannounced that he was not nominating Marine General Peter Pace to a second term as head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff because he thought the congressional confirmation process would be “quite contentious” and possibly a “divisive ordeal.” Instead, he picked Admiral Michael G. Mullen, whose record and views, he implied, would smooth the Congressional waters. What, then, has Adm. Mullen had to say about the President’s Global War on Terror?
A. “I may be a Navy admiral, but I don’t see us up to our eyeballs in millions of terrorists for a generation. I think this has all been overblown.”
B. “Now is the time for sane policies that reflect a realisticassessment of the situation. With all due respect, I think we need achange of course and a fresh approach.”
C. “Look, we can’t go off half-cocked calling people â?~evil’ and saying they hate us or they hate our freedom and democratic principles. Overblown rhetoric like that is unsophisticated, uninformed and won’t do anything for us.”
D. “The enemy now is basically evil and fundamentally hates everything we are — the democratic principles for which we stand…. This war is going to go on for a long time. It’s a generational war.”
The answer is a hair-raising D.
Now for part 2: If you are one of the country’s major “liberal” newspapers — the New York Times — what do you label the admiral?
A. An Ideologue
B. An extremist
C. A pragmatist
D. A warmonger
It’s C, naturally. (The paper’s headline read: “Nominee for JointChiefs Is Called a Pragmatist.”)
10. And how long will that “long war,” which the admiral so likes to talk about, actually take? Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice evidently glanced at her own curious version of a clock the other day, and then addressed this question at a meeting with the Associated Press editorial board. Which of the following did she say?
A. “And I think that what this President has done is in some wayscomparable to beginning to set up the long struggle that we are going to have to resolve, particularly the problem of the growth of extremism in the Middle East, which was clearly there underneath the surface and exploded on September 11th so that we finally knew what the real problem was.”
B. “Now, will we see the end of all of this? Maybe not. But when you’re confronted with a fundamentally changed strategic set of circumstances, you can try to put band-aids on it or you can say we’re going to have to deal with the root problems here and it may take a long time and it may take successive administrations to succeed.”
C. “But we know what we have to put in place so that successiveadministrations can succeed, and you don’t get there by covering the problems or trying to find a temporary solution to them that isn’t worth the paper that it’s written on.”
D. “We’re here at the beginning of a big historic transformation, and some of them may still work out on our watch and some of them may not. But now if you — if you — with all due respect, if you try to judge what you should do by today’s headlines, you miss the fact that history’s judgment is rarely the same as today’s headlines.”
If you guessed A, B, C, and D, all said practically in a single breath, you were 100% correct. It took Condi a bare few minutes with the AP editorial board to extend the last six years of mayhem and catastrophe another easy 12-20 years into the future (”successive administrations”). So it turns out that, while Secretary of Defense Gates and General Petraeus are looking at clocks whose second and minute hands are speeding along far too fast for their taste, the new head of the Joint Chiefs and our Secretary of State have timepieces whose minutes pass in weeks, hours in months, and days in years.
11. When discussing American efforts to arm Sunni groups who now claim they are willing to fight al-Qaeda, what did Major General Rick Lynch, commander of the Third Infantry Division, recently say?
A. “We don’t negotiate with terrorists, but sometimes we renegotiate who we call terrorists.”
B. “This isn’t a black and white place. There are good guys and badguys and there are groups in between.”
C. “You see… in this war, things get confused out there — power, ideals, the old morality and practical military necessity.”
D. “We’ve had good success in operations like this before. Look at Afghanistan in the 80s. We armed Sunnis to fight the Soviets and we ultimately won that one. Imagine what we can produce by getting behind Sunni fighters in Iraq today!”
If you thought you could imagine an Army general intoning answer C,there’s a reason. The line comes from the fictional General Corman in the film Apocalypse Now. The real answer is B. One wonders, however, how such thinking fits with the strict dichotomy of good and evil proffered by the likes of Admiral Mullen and Vice President Dick Cheney who, as it happens, is the subject of our bonus challenge.
Bonus Challenge: The ever-stalwart Dick (in the throes of being) Cheney recently got up before the graduating class at West Point and said, in part:
D. “The terrorists know what they want and they will stop at nothing to get it…. Their ultimate goal is to establish a totalitarian empire, a caliphate, with Baghdad as its capital. They view the world as a battlefield and they yearn to hit us again. And now they have chosen to make Iraq the central front in their war against civilization…. They are surging their capabilities, attacking Iraqi and American forces, and killing innocent civilians. America is fighting this enemy in Iraq because that is where they have gathered. We are there because, after 9/11, we decided to deny terrorists any safe haven.”
Didn’t he mean that, in Iraq, “we decided to deny terrorists any unsafe haven?” Anyway, yes, the answer is D. Now, it’s up to you to create your own A, B, and C. Can you top Dick’s “war against civilization”?Can you match him image for rabid image? Give it a shot.
After all, why should administration officials and military spokesmen be the only ones to run wild, guns cocked, in the fields of imagery, spraying everything in sight? Just remember though: When you’re done, close the playground gate, shut down the ballpark, turn off the alarm on your clock, and turn out those lights. If you don’t, I guarantee you, they won’t.
The amazing thing isn’t that the Bushites think these things, but that they’re stupid enough to *say* such things.
LTP–
Thanks for that . . . it would be funny if it weren’t so machivellian.
Remember Dick Buckshot Cheney describing the insurgants as being “in their last throes if you will”?
How many YEARS ago were they in their last throes? Somebody refresh my memory . . . two years ago? Three years ago?
Anyway, I’m sure that “the next six months” will be “crucial” to the “ultimate success” in Iraq . . .
(Just keep moving the six month period ahead every six months–nobody will notice.)
Don’t worry Capn, the new date for magic is supposed to be September. The Republicans ensure that everything in Iraq will be fixed by September. Never mind they said that about last month but they are the party of honesty and integrity so they can’t be wrong this time.
HEY, you guys all beat Kansas Meadowlark!! Way to go!!
LTP,All those politicians need to grab the bull by the tail, and lick the matter in the face!
The “hate America first” crowd was up early today. :D
immigrationCounters.com
Number of Illegal Aliens in the Country20,807,645Money Wired to Mexico City since January, 2006$ 22,213,001,672.00Cost of Social Security Services for Illegal Aliens since 1996$397,450,739,563.00Number of Children of Illegal Aliens in Public Schools3,958,789Cost of Illegal Aliens in K-12 Since 1996:$ 13, 965,063,431.00Number of Illegal Aliens Incarcerated332,594Cost of Incarcerations Since 2001$ 1,398,127,429.00Number of Illegal Aliens Fugitives642,799Skilled Jobs Taken by Illegal Aliens9,872,838
*************************************
Strong borders. No amnesty
Gee, “SolDevVB” –
According to your figures, the whole cost of the immigration “problem” could be paid for by not fighting in Iraq for 6 to 8 weeks.
The Right Winguts’ portrayal of the immigration “problem” is so far out of proportion to reality (and with the added benefit of permitting subtle racism into the mix) distracts from the utter corruption, incompetence, and greed that drives NeoCons’ Oil Imperialism in the Middle East.
The money behind the Republic Party wants cheap undocumented labor. There will be amnesty. There’s no magic fence that will secure the US/Mexican border (but if you figure out a way for Halliburton to profit from building it, you might have a chance Shrub/Cheney will find a way to rob the treasury).
Investigate Halliburton. Investigate Cheney and his ties to same. Investigate Bush. Investigate the lack of oversight in Iraq.
Take the taxes and fines from those investigations and bring our troops back from Iraq. Start rotating the troops from Iraq on our borders. Secure our borders first.
Police up those who have BROKEN our laws and entered our country illegally. Illegal. Does that ring a bell? Illegal. They don’t belong here if they can’t enter the country legally.
Do you support breaking laws?
We all support breaking laws when convenient to us.How fast did you drive on the way to work? Did you use your turn signal and seatbelt?
Speeding = crossing a sovereign country’s border illegally
Turn signal use = crossing a sovereign country’s border illegally
So you are OK with any and everyone entering this country illegally because people speed or don’t signal a lane change?
“We all support breaking laws when convenient to us.”How is illegal immigration convenient?
Yes I wore my seatbeltYes I used my turn signalyes I was driving over the speed limitYes, I agree to pay the penalty for driving over the speed limit, without bitching and complaining, if caught.
Driving over the speed limit hardly equals immigrating ilegally
The “No amnesty ship’em all back right now” crowd has no plan for _how_ to repatriate 12 million illegals.
There are 2 million people in US jails right now, and the system is already stressed to the max. The only places to put 12 million _more_ people is in concentration camps, and I doubt the American people will tolerate that.
Issue a biomeric national id card (though I hate the thought). Anyone picked up on unrelated charges, not having such a card, will be deported. no concentration camps necessary
hats off and solemn memorial to my fallen brothers
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070619/D8PRSF200.html
“So you are OK with any and everyone entering this country illegally because people speed or don’t signal a lane change?”
“Driving over the speed limit hardly equals immigrating ilegally”
Please re-read my post. Nowhere do I equate illegal immigration to traffic laws. Nowhere do I justify illegal immigration because we break laws too.
I do, however, refer you to the Bible on this issue: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
I do, however, refer you to the Bible on this issue: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Posted by: brian | June 19, 2007 at 08:55 AM
so, we should look the other way about crime, because we also commit “crimes”?
Actually brian, the literal translation of that verse is, “He who is without THIS (type of) sin, cast the first stone.” :)
lj, Tom is part of the 27 percenters now, they have little credibility. :D
Republican–
You are saying what? I adressed Brian, you link this to Tom? WHy?
Check this out:
http://www.followthemoneyproject.org/
“While American workers received $80,000 to $100,000 a year working for KBR in Iraq, these Third Country Nationals, known as TCNs, were only earning between $200 and $1000 a month doing much of the same work”
While at first blush this seems improper, and maybe it is, two quesitons must be asked1) what is the equivalency ie, 80k to 100k would be in the top what percentile us workers, 2400 to 12000 would in the top what percentile of the foreign nationals
2) Since an employer, any employer, will only pay what they have to, and these people willingingly work for this pay, are not all meeting expectations?
lj, one is allowed to refer to two posters on two different subjects I do believe. :)
you link this to Tom? WHy?Posted by: littlejohn | June 19, 2007 at 09:07 AM
Because not a moment can go by without some sort of gratuitous personal attack.
Republican-
Sure you can. Just try and make sure it makes sense. In your upthread post, it made aboslutely none. :)
blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/open_thread_10.html#comment-73150760
Then your previous post has absolutely no bearing and was a waste of space.
Biblical references do not have a place in the government. The government is governed by the laws of man. We each follow our own rules of God. Give unto Cesar what is Cesar’s.
Tom, once again, who says those opposed to having soft borders and people entering and staying in this country illegally want them out tomorrow? Doomsayers will always find holes. Realists find solutions.
By your statements, you seem to support fostering illegal immigration. Do you Tom feel that illegal immigrants have every right that you have and should be left alone?
Sol,
I’ve outlined a potential solution on another day, another thread. It looks something like Littlejohn’s 8:46 post upthread.
Seal the borders. Issue national id cards. People who are here stay here unless there’s some other, non-immigration reason to get rid of them.
Tom,
I don’t buy into the national ID card idea. I don’t think it is constitutional.
Why do people that came here illegally get to stay? I don’t think we need to start nationwide sweeps tomorrow, but why do they get to stay scot free?
Sol,
There is no humane way to repatriate 12 million illegals in anything less than 15 to 20, probably more, years. Period. It can’t be done without concentration camps.
Tom,
Let it take as long as it needs to. Once the exodus begins, see where improvements can be made. Deport more each year.
But you still don’t address the issue, why do you give illegals a free pass to stay here?
Sol,
“Deport more each year.” I already make that assumption in my 15 to 20 year estimate. You saw my numbers a few weeks ago.
“You still don’t address the issue.” I’m not a frigging NAZI. I don’t believe humans should be penned like cattle.
“Actually brian, the literal translation of that verse is, “He who is without THIS (type of) sin, cast the first stone.” :)”
Repub, there is no “the” translation of the Bible. Ther are many, each one slightly different. Who’s translation did you find you quote from?
Kind of like getting rid of moles, or some other pest. Remove the reason they invade your yard, and they will go elsewhere to feed.
“‘You still don’t address the issue.’ I’m not a frigging NAZI. I don’t believe humans should be penned like cattle.”
And you still don’t address it. Red herring alarmists statements that don’t address you position of letting illegal immigrants live in the US with full rights. All while legal immigrants wait years for their citizenship.
Nice reward for obeying the law Tom.
Damn Phantom, you nailed it. Right after we secure our borders, end the benefits of being here illegally.
And there it is, in a nutshell. They’re no longer human. They’re “moles, or some other pest.”
“Kind of like getting rid of moles, or some other pest. Remove the reason they invade your yard, and they will go elsewhere to feed.”
What is the reason people immigrate illegally to the US? Jobs
Why do companies hire illegals? They can pay them lower.
Why would companies want to pay employees lower? To keep costs down.
Why would companies want to keep costs down? A. If selling price stays the same they will make more profit. B. If selling price is lower they will make the same profit (assuming a proportional change).
A. Why would companies want to make more profit? GreedGreed by Whom? Company ownersWho are company owners? Anyone with stock either directly or in managed funds
B. Why would selling prices be lower? Consumer demandWhy would consumers want prices to be lower? So they can buy things for less money.
Brian-You forgot one
b……. So they can buy more things.
And Tom, you STILL evade the question.
Thanks, I only got 6 of the 7 ‘Whys’ there.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19301194/
“The operation was part of new U.S. and Iraqi attacks on Baghdad’s northern and southern flanks, which military officials said were aimed at clearing out Sunni insurgents, al-Qaida fighters and Shiite militiamen who had fled the capital and Anbar during a four-month-old security operation.”
Aren’t Shiites, Sunnis, and al-Qaida the groups that make up Iraq? Is there a group of Iraqis that is not included to be hunted down? This is a serious question, and I know I should know the answer, but it seems that we are making enemies out of the whole population of Iraq. Who is left to be our allies? Who are we fighting for?
TDT,Halliburton
Which leads us right back to Cheney/Bush, right Sol?
You’re DAMN straight TDT. I would venture to say a LOT more Cheney than Bush. I think Bush was in it to show Saddam his wanker was bigger. I think Cheney has become fabulously wealthy because of the war. Big oil, HUGE profits. I see an oil and money grab gone wrong – for the American people.
brian,
Don’t recall who the authors were at the time. It was a study of the Greek translation of the New Testament. Short course, about three weeks long. Been ten or more years ago when I took it.
This is an interesting take on the Hillary campaign. I have always felt like I had to have a reason to not like her candidacy – to which I would say that I am against the family dynasty thing (as a Bush might say). In truth, I just don’t like her, nor trust her.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2005/04/11/LI2005041100587.html?hpid=news-col-blogs
I desperately want the Dems to retake the whitehouse, but if she is the candidate, that won’t happen.
I had never heard the sex toys on Christmas tree story before. How interesting…
Steven,Take a look at Ron Paul…
Sorry p-mom, but the country still has Clinton fatigue. And that is true, whether you like it, or not.
Ron Paul is the first politician that I have seen in a long time who has the guts to tell the truth. I am afraid that this same courage is why he doesn’t stand a chance. Too bad, though.
Steve,If you get a chance, vote for him in your primaries. He has huge internet success. All we have to do is get those folks to the polls.
Sol – we don’t have a primary here in Kansas.
Ah that SUCKS. Do you have a caucus? I thought EVERY state had a primary. What a raw deal.
The main thing that gives me hope for the ‘08 contest is that nothing could be worse than what we now have for president.
nothing could be worse than what we now have for president.Posted by: Steven Davis | June 19, 2007 at 11:40 AM
Steven:
Two words: Sam Brownback.
Don’t put it past Hilary
I would love to see a woman prez, so it’s kind of a shame to see how it shakes out for Hillary, as the article Steven cites: “she never skimps on her homework”. I don’t dislike Hillary, I think she got a raw deal with the baking cookies deal, it was something the right wing cooked up to smear her. but I agree that most are tired of the whole Bush / Clinton saga. Ron Paul also offers some refreshing candidness…something I think America needs.
Ed Friedeman???
youtube.com/watch?v=d5PZ23n5tP0
SolDevVB wrote:”Damn Phantom, you nailed it. Right after we secure our borders, end the benefits of being here illegally.”
Maybe we should be more like the Mexican government:
At a time when the Supreme Court and many politicians seek to bring American law in line with foreign legal norms, it’s noteworthy that nobody has argued that the U.S. look at how Mexico deals with immigration and what it might teach us about how best to solve
our illegal immigration problem. Mexico has a single, streamlined law that ensures that foreign visitors and immigrants are:
* in the country legally;
* have the means to sustain themselves economically;
* not destined to be burdens on society;
* of economic and social benefit to society;
* of good character and have no criminal records; and
* contributors to the general well-being of the nation.
The law also ensures that:
* immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor;
* foreign visitors do not violate their visa status;
* foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country’s internal politics;
* foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;
* foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;
* those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.
For the rest of the article go to:http://tinyurl.com/23urxc
Sorry, should have put quotes around the quote,
‘Mexico’s Immigration Law: Let’s Try It Here at Home’ by J. Michael WallerPosted: 05/08/2006 on Humanevents.com
I desperately want the Dems to retake the whitehouse, but if she is the candidate, that won’t happen.
I had never heard the sex toys on Christmas tree story before. How interesting…
Posted by: Steven Davis | June 19, 2007 at 11:12 AM
Steven – As a woman, I will tell you that a woman’s fiercest enemy/competitor, is a woman. Geraldine Ferraro learned that during her bid with Mondale as the V.P., and Senator Clinton will learn this as well. All the attributes and characteristics that she is being torn apart for would be applauded if she were a man!!!
If we don’t watch out Mexico may start selling entry into the USA to poor peoples from all over the world (assuming of course that they don’t already).
First let me say that I have been a regular watcher of C-Span for years. This assault by Savage fans, by way of emails to C-Span, was sickening to me.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/06/19/savages-assault-cspan/
Sorry for the long post, but I got this as an email and have no link…
Why is te GOP so afraid of Dr. Ron Paul?
Iowans for Tax Relief and Iowa Christian Alliance will host a presidential candidates forum on Saturday, June 30th in Des Moines. Republican presidential candidates Mitt Romney, Sam Brownback, Jim Gilmore, Mike Huckabee, Tommy Thompson, and Tom Tancredo will participate.
Ron Paul, however, will not participate. Why? Because he wasn’t invited.
We heard about this forum from numerous supporters in Iowa who asked why Dr. Paul was not going to participate. Those supporters assumed that Dr. Paul was invited.
The campaign office had not received an invitation so we called this morning; thinking we might have misplaced the invitation or simply overlooked it. Lew Moore, our campaign manager, called Mr. Edward Failor, an officer of Iowans for Tax Relief, to ask about it. To our shock, Mr. Failor told us Dr. Paul was not invited; he was not going to be invited; and he would not be allowed to participate. And when asked why, Mr. Failor refused to explain. The call ended.
Lew then called Mr. Steve Sheffler, president of the Iowa Christian Alliance, to talk with him. Mr. Sheffler did not answer so Lew left a message. He has yet to respond.
Why are the Iowans for Tax Relief and the Iowa Christian Alliance excluding the one Republican candidate who scored at the top of every online poll taken after the MSNBC, Fox News, and CNN debates? Why are they denying Iowans the opportunity to hear from the Republican presidential candidate whose popularity is growing by the day?
We couldn’t get answers to these questions from Messrs. Failor and Sheffler. Maybe you’ll have better luck. Their contact information is below.
It’s ironic that on the same day we learned the Iowans for Tax Relief and the Iowa Christian Alliance excluded Dr. Paul from their candidates forum, we received a call from ABC News confirming Dr. Paul’s participation in its nationally broadcast August 5th debate to be held in Des Moines.
Kent Snyder, ChairmanRon Paul 2008
Edward FailorIowans for Tax Relief2610 Park AvenueMuscatine, Iowa 52761Phone: 563-288-3600 or 877-913-3600Fax: 563-264-2413E-mail: itr@taxrelief.org
Steve Sheffler, PresidentIowa Christian Alliance939 Office Park Road, Suite 115West Des Moines, Iowa 50265Phone: 515-225-1515Fax: 515-225-1826E-mail: slscheffler@iowachristian.com
Perhaps they realize that Ron Paul is part of the “Blame America First” crowd?
What ever tag line makes you sleep better Repub. Most folks understand he is the ONLY candidate to tell the truth.
SolDevVB, he is the ONLY candidate on the right to tell the truth. Republicans can’t handle the truth so their make up their own “truths”.
Get your Puffs or Kleenex ready—–
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/18/eveningnews/main2946007.shtml
Nah, they just call the truth ‘Blaming America First’ right repub?
SolDevVB, I would call ‘Blaming America First’ a Repulic talking point.
Some of us have opened our eyes.
Ron Paul 2008.
Write Iowa an email or call them. don’t let the last true Conservative be shut out for telling the truth and having a plan.
Don’t let fear guide the GOP…
How hypocritical for Republican, a good conservative bastion of personal responsibility, to use ‘Blame America First’ as a pejorative term for those who would have our country, via its leaders, take responsibility for their own actions.
Tom, you know, I’d agree with you about Sam but I don’t think Sam would intentionally scam people the way that Bush has. I think Sam, despite how wrong I think he is, means well. That is the difference between Bush and Brownback.
I’m just so excited that Hillary will be our next president. I hope I hope I hope. I think she’s going to do a kick butt job.
Congratulations to the Boeing Technical Workers. They voted to decertify the Union.
That is awesome news! Now those workers can start getting some greater pay and benefits. And people can start getting jobs at Boeing, which has been impossible through the nepotism from the Union.
Individuals win! It’s the America Way! Individuals first!
Great day for Wichita. :)
See ya Unions! Let the door hit you in the ass as you walk out.
Jobs Jobs Jobs are a coming! :)
Congratulations to the Boeing Technical Workers. They voted to decertify the Union.
That is awesome news! Now those workers can start getting some greater pay and benefits. And people can start getting jobs at Boeing, which has been impossible through the nepotism from the Union.
Individuals win! It’s the America Way! Individuals first!
Great day for Wichita. :)
See ya Unions! Let the door hit you in the ass as you walk out.
Jobs Jobs Jobs are a coming! :)
Posted by: Joe Williams | June 19, 2007 at 07:14 PM
You are SO deluded!
That is good news Joe! I just wish all the tactics of yester-year that caused thousands of workers to lose their jobs because of the misguided Union action could be redone.
At least there is hope in the future for the Technical workers of Boeing.
They will most likely bring in another union. I doubt it is a rejection of being represented, just a rejection of that union.
“All the attributes and characteristics that she is being torn apart for would be applauded if she were a man!!!”
TDT,My wife shares your sentiments, but I don’t think the sexism dog is going to hunt for her. She is not liked very well by people, her polling negatives have always been pretty high, and she cannot be honest – which is her biggest downfall. Her campaign is carefully guided by polls and focus groups. If she would be honest, people would like her better and she might have a chance. But, I am betting right now, you will never see honesty and genuineness out of HRC. Can’t happen.
“It’s the America Way! Individuals first!”
Except, Joe Williams, when you want a government-provided entertainment center provided for you and your big-government pals, provided through the central planning of oour county commission.
Comrade Williams, that collectivist streak in you outshines any other.
Hillary will have the same fate as the last candidate who thought he could sneak into the Whitehouse by not being George W. Bush.
Or by his new name: El Presidente Jorge de Bush
Apophis–
You are correct, as usual.
The only thing the Boeing workers get now is a smaller paycheck and fewer benefits.
Who was it, Circuit City, that has been laying off older, more experienced workers because they earned more?
Serfdom, peonage, and poverty are a-coming to Wichita!
Caph,
As usual, the reich-wingers think the “market” will solve everything.
As usual, they are wrong.
The bush years will forever be known as the “Years of National Disgrace”.
Brian–
There is no “Greek translation of the New Testament” because the New Testament was written in Koine Greek.
(A few scholars argue for Aramaic and a dialect of Hebrew as the orginal language of some books, but they are a tiny minority.)
Please don’t ask questions of Republiar.
It just encourages him to dream up bullsh*t personal anecdotes that obviously never happened . . .
Those who think the current president is in favor of markets are mistaken.
As his critics correctly point out, federal government spending has increased rapidly during his administration.
Regulation has increased rapidly.
Federal control over education has increased. Do you like that, Apophis?
And I would say that what you term the right-wing today is hardly in favor of markets. If by that you mean large businesses and their representatives, who continually lobby for special treatment from government.
None of this is what markets represent. It’s what government produces.
Yup, Apop,
The “free market theocrats” seem to think there was nothing before FDR and modern labor movements.
Why they want to turn the clock back to 1889, I don’t know.
Anonymous
NO, the “control” you speak of is meant to ultimately funnel public tax dollars into the private and religious sectors. This is just wrong.
So all the extra spending by federal and state governments is going to private schools?
Besides money issues, do schoolteachers enjoy working under NCLB?
That is the intention………..
What “extra federal funding” are you referring to? I suppose you will be quoting a worldnet source now.
NCLB is just asinine in it’s current form.
First, get rid of the title………it is plain stupid.
“There is no “Greek translation of the New Testament” because the New Testament was written in Koine Greek.”Posted by: CapnAmerica | June 19, 2007 at 08:59 PM
Yet again, another Secular Progressive claiming to be an authority of the Bible.
Tell me then Capn, what did the people in those times usually speak? And how was it that their spoken word was not entered as is into the New Testament?
Was it because that Greek was the scholarly “written” language at the time and the language of the local spoken dialect had to be translated? Thusly, the language of the people of that era had to been translated into Greek?
Think before you write Capn.
Or is that too much to ask?
Foolish pride, that’s all he has left…….
So walk on by……………..
GMC was right about you Clarkie. All you are doing is wasting bandwidth and white space because you don’t have the balls to be an individual and respond to me directly.
The last several times we discussed a topic, WSClark was proven wrong and left with his tail between his legs.
I guess he’s letting CapnAmerica telling him how to run his life.
Must be sad to be someone’s lackey eh WSClark?
Blow it out your fleetwood, Republank. I won’t discuss anything with a known troll and nic stealer.
Walk on by……………………..
Anyone else see this? Hillary’s announcement of her campaign song is a commerical that is a rip off of the Sopranos last episode:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/?splash=1
Wonder who thought up this gem, Clinton (the serial philanderer) as Tony Soprano (another big boy who had trouble keeping his pants on). Hillary as Carmella – the serial denier about the reality of her miserable life. Boy, I wonder what genius came up with that one?
Okay WSLackey, do your Master’s bidding.
I thought it was hillarious. Steven, Hillary will be our next president, get on board, buddy.
Our years with Bill were good. Hillary will be better.
Con, most of us ’secular progressives’ were once fundies too.
That’s why we can enjoy this so much.
Blow it out your fleetwood, Republank. I won’t discuss anything with a known troll and nic stealer.
Walk on by……………………..
And justify nic stealing and switching how?????????????????????
Justified it WSLackey because all of you tightie whities are so full of yourself you actually believe the profane, secular Hitlerite cheese-eating surrender monkey spew you pass on as opinion is worth reading.
P-Mom,
Nobody can be worse than GW Bush, even real Republicans are waking up to that reality. I am very disappointed with the democratically led congress that folded so easily on the Iraq war funding. Bush was able to cast them as the ones endangering troops, and no one made a peep about the fact that he was the one who put them in danger in the first place. Very cowardly and uninspiring, to say the least.
Short of a serious revolution, what needs to happen is the election of a third pary candidate to let these fat, pork fed, clowns know we have had enough!
The time may be right for some combination of a Ron Paul/Bloomberg ticket. Or “the time may be right for fighting in the streets, boy… but what can a poor boy do, but play in a rockin’ roll band…” – forgive me, I digress…
Republican, how can you call someone a “secular hitlerite” when it’s an oxymoron? Hitler required prayer in schools, his SS had to be Christian, and the soldiers wore religious slogans on their uniforms? Do you even know what you are talking about or was it a nice catchphrase you heard on Rush’s show?
I’m quite worried about you Doug. I’m worried because you don’t know the difference in “being religious” and being a Christian.
One only has to look at the various cult religions that ended with tragic results. Kool-aid anyone?
Once again Doug, you need to educate yourself here on Hitler and Christianity.
Here’s a good link for you. It’s Wikipedia, so it won’t taint your secular idealism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity
Walk on by, foolish pride is all he has left so let him cry, the tears and the sadness………….
Walk on by…………………….
That’s right Republican, you are the only true Christian. Martin Luther wasn’t a Christian, the Catholic Church isn’t Christian, only Republican is Christian. No Christian in America would ever support things like religious slogans on money, prayer in schools, or hire people because they graduated from a Christian school like Regent University. That’s just absurd.
Okay Doug, I’ve tried to point you in two different threads to some solid evidence and factual statements.
Once again Doug, you are spiraling into the pit of victimhood by purporting there is a grand conspiracy by me stating that I am denouncing all Denominations of Christianity, when I never once pitted one against the other at all.
Your ability to rationalize factual statement into your own brand of vainglorious Liberal Left fantasy is beyond tiresome.
What it shows is a chaotic mind that has no discipline nor tolerance of facts especially when it proves you wrong Doug.
Republican, please give us all the checklist of who is a true Christian. That will clear everything up. You are the self-proclaimed prophet so you are the one who can do it so please, for the sake of humanity, give us some means to measure who is a true Christian and who isn’t.
It’s your assertion and interpretation that I’m doing that Doug.
You need to prove your assertion that I made any such statements.
Are you up to the task Doug? Or are you going to continue to flail your arms about with meaningless commentary? :)
Republican, you are throwing around the term Hitlerite so shouldn’t you support your claim there are a bunch of secular Nazis running around? Or is this just your typical double standard? I’m sure you’d throw me in that category as one of your “secular hitlerites” as you have so many people. So why not support your claim. Or is this just another one of your catchphrases you’ve heard on Rush and you repeat it like the non-thinking dittohead you are?
Tonight folks, we have witnessed why we cannot trust the Liberal Left Democrats to be in power of our government.
It is the minds of people like Doug, CapnAmerica, WSClark, Steve Davis and many others who only seek to defame through ad hominem and distortion of acts.
Their leaders in Washington D.C. are doing the identical things. Instead of getting on with the government, passing ethical reform, passing legislative bills and doing other things important for the business and laws of the United States, they continue in partisan rancor and bickering.
Even members of the Democratic Congress are getting sick of the same rhetoric without malleable action by their own leadership.
The Democrats are showing why they are the failed party of the past as they have no ability to lead or govern.
Good night Doug, sleep well.
BTW, I haven’t listened to Rush Limbaugh in nearly ten years.
For the record, I am not secular.
And koine means “common” as opposed to classical Greek.
It was the language that people used, so there was no “translation” into Greek, anymore than I’m “translating” into English.
Later, people who spoke and read Latin, German, French etc translated the Greek INTO their languages.
Anyone who took a course in this would know it.
Or even people who didn’t take a course in it and aren’t idiots.
WW……………WW…….AAA…WW………….WW……AAAAA…..WW…..W….WW…..AA…..AA…..WW.WWW.WW……AAAAAAAA……WW……WW…….AA………AA
LL……………KK…..KKLL……………KK…KKLL……………KKKKLL……………KK…KKLLLLLLL……..KK…..KK
..OOOOO…….NN…….NN.OO….OO……NNN…..NNOO……OO…..NN..N…NN.OO….OO……NN…N..NN..OOOOO…….NN…….NN
BBBBB………YY………..YYBB….B……….YY…….YYBBBBBB………….YYYYYBB…..BB…………YYYBBBBBB…………..YYY
Capn must have forgotten Aramaic and Hebrew spoken in those times amongst the writers of the Bible. :)
Sure he forgot. :D
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/open_thread_28.html#comment-71041282
“Justified it WSLackey because all of you tightie whities are so”
Oh, so it’s OUR FAULT that you are such an asshole? hehehehehehehheh!
Talk about blaming everyone else for YOUR problems. You only do it because WE are bad? Hehehheheeh!
Spiraling into vicitmhood?
“many others who only seek to defame through ad hominem and distortion of acts.”
Then THIS?
“all of you tightie whities are so full of yourself you actually believe the profane, secular Hitlerite cheese-eating surrender monkey spew you pass on”
HEE HEE HEE HEE HEE!
OMG, I am ROLLING now with laughter. Jesus WEPT. Project much?
…and I see it is STILL working on its writing for the next “bad Hemingway” contest….
I live my life to make you laugh farmgrrl.
:D
Well then you can stop living because you have made me laugh quite enough already.
I heard Hemingway’s grandson on NPR one day last week. I did not know that Hemingway cross dressed – he did it because it soothed him. I wonder if the same would help the con any?