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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted June 22, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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Vice (and if you take the meaning literally, consult a dictionary…) President Cheney has declared himself above the law once again. Is he in the executive? Congressional? Or above all? He seems to think the latter! Accountability, it seems, is not in his vocabulary! The man is a menace to the free world! Impeachment is a light sentence for such arrogance, tar and feathers with a trip to Iraq (without body armor) should be the order of the day. I’m sure his merc Halliburton buddies would save his ass! Up until they draw fire for him.
It’s a little after 5 AM here in Wichita. If I look carefully eastward through a partly cloudy sky, I believe I can see first signs of dawn, a subdued orange in the eastern sky.
I say this because we just completed the shortest nights of the year and the longest day of the year … the so-called summer solstice. Once again the Earth has successfully tipped to it’s maximum angle, some 23 1/2 degrees and will now begin slowly tipping back until the sun is directly over the equator at the beginning of fall.
This is the time when the sun never sets in the Artic.
No thud, no break in the earth’s spin velocity, no frantic news reports questioning whether or not our planet Earth would once again beginning to tip back!
Like a rapidly spinning gyroscope, the Earth keeps up this ancient routine. Once again, we will have summer, fall, winter and spring right on schedule across the face of the Earth.
We are blessed because some other planets don’t follow this routine. In fact, Uranus spins closer to perpendicular to the line from Uranus to the sun, said to be caused by some ancient colision with another wondering planetoid.
So Wichita EAGLE, your headline should be, “Special, special — not to worry. Earth continues to tip as usual for another year.”
Mrs. XXX and I did some running around Wichita yesterday afternoon. What a mess this town is! It seems like almost all the major streets are re-routed and torn up. There are orange pylons everywhere; but there doesn’t seem to be anybody working around them. We made the mistake of going to Rock and Kellogg. Poor Mrs. XXX got flustered and we wound up on the Turnpike (Mrs. XXX isn’t from Wichita).
Who is driving all of this road construction? Why does the whole city have to be torn up all at the same time? How smart is it to have seemingly all the major thoroughfares torn up at the same time? And what is the deal with Kellogg? The Pyramids were built in less time than it’s taking to get Kellogg done.
I’m pissed at the article yesterday about the Northwest Bypass maybe scrapped because of selfish land developers who betting the wrong way on the proposed highway project.
KDOT has spent millions and many years engineering, designing and doing their best to purchase right-a-ways for the bypass with limited funds, and lets not forget that the county and the city of Wichita has also contributed millions to this.
The NW Bypass will be slated for funding in the next 10 year transportation bill during the 2009 legislative session. Along with 13 miles of new highway connecting the K-96, I-235 interchanges with one that will loop to the west down to Goddard and with that they will finish up 6-lane Kellogg express way through Goddard and connecting up where it is left off near 119st West.
Yes! It will be a very expensive project but one that is desperately needed in our area. But all this may not happen because of land developers.
When the project was announced, speculators rushed to buy up the land that will sit on the right-a-way of the bypass. Although the adjacent land around the bypass will bring them big dollars for commercial and residential development, they are also betting on that the taxpayers will bring them big payoffs for purchasing the right-a-ways. The right-a-ways purchasing was estimated at around $15 million at first, but since speculators purchased them up before KDOT could, that now has ballooned to $50 million. The amount that these Speculators want the taxpayers to pay for their land.
The second part is the City of Maize and poor city planning, allowed land developers to build houses right on the proposed right-a-ways of the NW Bypass. The City of Maize excuse is that they need to grow, granted, but why in the hell would you knowingly allow houses built on an area that a highway bypass will be coming through? You just caused some serious headaches to KDOT by doing this. They will either have to re-engineer and spend millions and further delays just to reroute the NW Bypass around the houses or they will have to spend even more money buying up houses that were newly built, just to build the bypass.
These selfish speculators and the City of Maize should learn what Koch and Ablah did when they bought up all the land in East Wichita. They donated the right-a-ways land to the State as to build the NE Bypass. And by doing so the highway was built a decade ahead of schedule.
We should request these speculators to do the same for the sake of saving the NW Bypass project. Because now, as it is, it may be shelved or never be built because of selfish land speculators and poor city planing from the City of Maize.
Charleston SC is having a memorial service today for the nine brave firefighters who lost their lives the other day:
“Among those expected were former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee _ both presidential candidates _ as well as Barbara Richardson, wife of Democratic New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, who is also running.”
Fortunately I had already decided to not vote for any of these folks — unnecessary political grandstanding — trying to steal the spotlight — shame!!
Joe,While I don’t disagree with your point, I question your attitude. This is just Capitalism at it’s finest. I thought you were all for that. And since when are you against screwing the taxpayer (Can we say arena)?
The traffic situation in west Wichita is terrible and they really need the bypass but as you say, greed will probably put an end to the project or make it very expensive. But it’s no skin off my nose. I live on the northeast edge of Wichita where we have a nice bypass and I don’t do any business in west Wichita. Why go there where the traffic is awful?
Last Newsweek poll says Bush at 26% approval; only Nixon at 23% prior to resignation went lower. 15 American soliders killed in Iraq in last 15 days. Hummm……
Well! That is were we disagree XXX. The arena isn’t screwing the taxpayers, because we the voters in majority voted for it’s approval.
I don’t mind these land developers making a buck. They are going to make tons to profit from their land deals for residential and commercial development. Nothing wrong with that and more power to them, I hope they make as much money as possible.
But if they were smart, they would either donate the portion of the land or at least at minimal cost of the land needed for the NW Bypass right-a-ways as to allow it to be built. Instead they are banking on that the taxpayers will give them a hefty profit as well. But they risk the project being scrapped as a result, meaning everybody loses. The Taxpayers for already spending millions, the speculators (no more bypass), and commuters (no more bypass).
I have no idea what Maize is up to. Just poor planning or a deliberate jab in trying to stop the NW Bypass on purpose. A JWinkification as it may. I don’t know.
We have eminent domain issues here. While fair market price is fair market price, how does one explain that the fair market price was once $15 million while in design and engineering stage, but once the highway specific locations were made public and the local governments started to pay for right-a-ways, that number shot up to $50 million?
thinkfirst! I believe the Democratic lead Congress actually has a lower approval number than Bush.
Go figure!
“We have eminent domain issues here.”Posted by: Joe Williams | June 22, 2007 at 07:18 AM
Indeed! But since when does what’s good for the people take precedence over what’s good for a group of greedy investors? Talk about wasted millions, what do you think it’ll cost to take the issue to eminent domain? It will take years to get to that point, and more years (and millions of taxpayer dollars) to resolve the issue in court.
Seriously Joe, I’m sympathetic to what you’re saying, but like so many things around here, the northwest bypass may be another opportunity missed.
But you’re welcome to come over here to my side of town and use our nice bypass.:^)
Senate passes energy bill, boosting mileage standards
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/21/congress.energy.ap/index.html
That is awesome, but ethanol is a straw man. It pollutes just as much as gasoline, it is less efficient than gasoline, consumes WAY too much water to process, and will drive our grain prices thru the roof.
Not only will you pay more for grain products, but everything down the grain line – your meat. Beef, pork and poultry prices will rise as well.
Ethanol is also harder on your car’s internal parts to include your engine, fuel tank, and fuel lines. Don’t be fooled by thinking it’s a green alternative. It is a straw man. Don’t support it !!!awesome
The hypocrisy rears its ugly head again. This time it looks like Mr. Anti Everything JWink. He’s against it as long as it does not benefit him personally. No Arena, No Casino….but go ahead and spend 50 million so I can get to work 5 minutes quicker than yeasterday. I am an east sider….why should I care how long it takes for west siders to get around? This is the mentality of most right wingers….I thought I might try it on. I say we start a Anti NW Bypass group. We can get some religious leaders, and those handy business owners(land developers) to come out and nay say this project. We can come up with some type of “social ills” or start complaining on how we are left in the dark or how the budget will surely have overruns. Don’t be a hypocrite!
I never see anyone here blogging about the Wichita Farmers Markets (I think you have two). I get emails from them, and have visited a couple of times to get ideas, and they seem to do a pretty good job.
All the farmers markets should be starting up all over the state. Ours starts this weekend and others started last weekend.
Early in the season, it’s good to remember that there may not be TONS of items like there are later in the season. But please go and support your local vendors, especially early when they really need the boost.
And if you want seven reasons to shop locally for your food, here ya go!
http://health.msn.com/dietfitness/greenarticlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100164921>1=10109
Mike, have some more coffee. I think you might have mixed up the posts.JWink just posted about solstice.
My apologies to JWink…..I meant to reference Joe Williams.
Triple, the most secure job available in Wichita is orange barrel supplier to the City.
The NW Bypass mess is just typical KDOT business as usual. Actually, I am more converned with getting a decent rational plan for Kellogg through Goddard that doesn’t destroy the City. KDOT has made it clear that they don’t give a damn about what their lousy design does to the residents of Goddard.
The speed limit reduction between Wichita and Goddard has been needed for some time. Again, KDOT was fully aware that having cross streets on a “pseaudo-freeway” creates a death trap. This has been repeated over and over again with K-96 to Hutch and K-254 to El Dorado along with Kellogg to Goddard.
Then we have the traffic light at 111th St. That was a necessity because KDOT made the decision to NOT extend the w-bound frontage road to 119th St which would have eliminated the crossing at 111th altogether.
Mike – I must have missed it – where did JWink come out for the Bypass?
My apologies to JWink…..I meant to reference Joe Williams.Posted by: Mike | June 22, 2007 at 09:07 AM
AGAIN MY APOLOGIES TO JWINK…..AM I GOING TO HAVE TO DO THIS ALL DAY?
kfg – a question. I notice that farmers Markets tend to be very early Saturday mornings. I wonder if their might be an interesting niche market doing them on a weekday evening along major commuting routes? Catch me on the way home when I am thinking about dinner?
Sorry Mike – you posted that while i was still typing.
No problem Ben…..lol
So now in addition to Joe Williams being in favor of these things that are opposite of liberty:
- subsidies to businesses- TIF financing- government-supplied entertainment venues- public schools and federal control of them through NCLB
We must also add that Joe Williams is in favor of eminent domain, which is the opposite of private property rights.
Joe, how do you reconcile your professed libertarian beliefs with your support of these things? Please tell us!
Ben,The farmer’s market at the Sedgwick County Extention Center (21st and Ridge) is open one weeknight (IIRC) Wednesday.
Ben, yes, and that is what we do in Hays. We set up (in the heat of the day) along Vine street, across the road from Dillons. We get LOTS of “on the way home” shoppers. I think Russell and Victoria have theirs as well.
I hear lots of folks saying they’ll be damned before they get up at the butt crack of dawn on Saturday morning to buy produce. I dont think that’s unreasonable.
I think they started farmers markets early in the morning so we can pick it that day and get it to the market as fresh as possible before it wilts in the heat. Plus, it’s cooler in the a.m for both shoppers and vendors.
However, we dont have any trouble drawing customers and getting them to spend at the markets that are held in the evening.
Another alternative Ben, unless you want the personal browsing, music, social aspects of the market, you could go a couple of times to scope out your favorite vendors, and shop with them on a “subcription” basis or just one on one.
Some will let you come to their farm, others will drop things off at your house or work, or they will put together an order for you to pick up at the market. Or they make “drops” during the week if they are in town.
I suggest you all go a couple of times to see what it is like. I had the best taquito of pork with chopped onions, cilantro and lime juice at the Wichita Farmers Market. They had fresh, locally produced cheese and other non-veggie food items.
I dont think you’ll be sorry if you go. And most of the early morning markets offer coffee and breakfast items.
Could there be anything better on a sunny Kansas morning?
Well, maybe a winning lottery ticket. But otherwise? I dont think so.
Julie – THANKS!!!!!!!
I grow some veges at home but not a lot. Typical city guy I guess!
Joe,The NW bypass doesn’t HAVE to go through a particular town or area. It can still happen even if it doesn’t go directly through the heart of Maize. There were a LOT of conditions that KDOT was going to enforce if the bypass went through Maize. No construction of any sort, not even sidewalks or trails in a park on the site until it was used and there was no guarantee that the land would be used. So, the city would have to leave land vacant in a growing community in an area that was RAPIDLY developing with no promise or guarantee that it would ever be used. What if the City of Maize decided to leave the land vacant for KDOT and in 20 – 30 years when the project was finally underway KDOT came back and said, no – we’ve decided to do this by Colwich or Mt Hope. Would you be calling Maize dummies for holding up progress because of what might happen?
yes, this is me, I’m back. I like the ‘new’ format of no email addys. and yes, I’m in rare form (as always).:)
((((((((((((((Julie))))))))))))
I know we have out of Wichita area readers so here is a link to a list of all the farmers markets in Kansas. I a not sure it is complete or totally accurate, but it is a good starting place to see what near you.
http://www.fruitstands.com/states/kansas.htm
Also, if you google kansas + farmers markets, you can find LOTS of interesting stuff.
Julie, welcome. It’s always a pleasure to see your bright “smiley face”!
Haven’t posted from the Rude Pundit for a while, and I rather liked what he had to say about the crepuscule inhabting the VP’s Office that claims not to be a part of the Executive Branch of government.
**********************************The Rude Pundit6/22/2007
Six Other Things the Office of the Vice President Actually Is:
Dick Cheney has decided that his office is a free-floating radical in DC, not quite an executive entity, not truly a legislative one, but some unholy Reese’s cup of evil. Here’s some other ways the Veep has untethered himself from mortal binds.
1. Because his office is not an entity in the executive branch, but actually a Native American religion, Cheney and his staff are free to smoke peyote at the start of every morning meeting.
2. Because his office is not an entity in the executive branch, but actually a breach in the space/time continuum, Cheney is free to enter at will his own dimension, the realm of Cthulhu and the slime beasts.
3. Because his office is not an entity in the executive branch, but actually a motorcycle gang, Cheney is free to beat Senators with chains and blackjacks.
4. Because his office is not an entity in the executive branch, but technically an executive bathroom, Cheney is free to wipe his ass with whatever documents are handy, memos, executive orders, Constitutions.
5. Because his office is not an entity in the executive branch, but actually a freak show, Cheney is free to bite the heads off chickens. And nosy members of Congress.
6. Because his office is not an entity in the executive branch, but actually an insane asylum, Cheney is free to rain bedlam down on the whole of government.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/
Joe, how do you reconcile your professed libertarian beliefs with your support of these things? Please tell us!
Posted by: anonymous | June 22, 2007 at 09:25 AM
Anon, I think Joe may be a closet Leftist Socialist.
On the other hand, Joe may just support what benefits Joe. But he sure sends a lot of mixed signals.
Welcome back Julie ;->
CF2K,I saw that on the news last night. This guy is amazing! The best entertainment going is, what will this Fruitcup come up with next?
“Cheney is free to enter at will his own dimension, the realm of Cthulhu and the slime beasts.”Posted by: CF2K | June 22, 2007 at 09:46 AM
Could this be the infamous “Undisclosed Location”?
Well Julie! Yeah! If they are not going to build it then Maize can go ahead.
They aren’t forcing no development, because people are already doing it.
But the plans for it have already been laid out. So you are saying that it’s ok for the city of Maize to bet against the highway being built?
We can find out in 2009. I know that may be a long time to wait, but we will find out then if it makes it into the next transportation bill. If not! Then do what you want.
Other than that! I live on the East side so it doesn’t affect me any, but I’m for Wichita Metro to grow and that it will with the NW Bypass and finishing up Kellogg through Goddard.
http://www.ksdot.org/projects/details.asp?projectNumber=K-8263-01
There are several Farmers Markets in Wichita including Derby and Andover. Not not forget the one in Old Town on Saturdays.
http://www.kansasgrownmarket.com/index.php
http://www.oldtownfarmersmarket.com/
XXX,
Indeed. As ‘undisclosed locations’ go, one can’t do better than extra-dimensionality.
Seriously, though, Cheney is a menace. He NEEDS to be removed from office. God only knows what he’s really been up to that the rest of us will only find out about long after the fact.
Joe,It’s not about whether or not the bypass will be built. I really do think that it will.My point is that up until KDOT starts digging, location is subject to change. What KDOT proposed for the bypass was a giant swath right smack dab in the middle of Maize.I don’t know if you’ve been out to Maize recently but it is growing by leaps and bounds especially right where KDOT was wanting to put the bypass.Why would the City of Maize want to have a swath of undeveloped land waiting for what might come to pass? Nothing from KDOT was guaranteed but developers with immediate plans for buildings and businesses are guaranteed.Like I said earlier, the bypass can still be built. It can go around Maize very effectively and pretty easily.
A few years ago I got a pretty good insight as to how the bypasses and accesses to are all FUBAR here in Wichita.
I went to a lecture by the city engineer. It seems that KDOT doesn’t care a bit about city/cunty access to their hyways and bypasses. Because the feds pay for the bigest portion of the construction all they care about are the federal requirements.
If the city/county wants access they must pay for the construction of the off and on ramps. That’s why on I-235 you have such incredibly stupid access points. For example the access at Central and 235. KDOT has nothing to do with that stupidity, blame Wichita.
Hank
Cheney!
I love him! Any man that can keep the liberal’s panties in a permanent wad the way he can is my hero.
So, he’s resisting yet another fishing expedition by Congress? So what! Get over it!
Hank
ksfarmgrrl–Last year two new farmers markets were started by my house. One at Green Acres in Brittany Square and the other one close to 21st and Rockroad. I can’t begin to tell you have much I enjoyed the locally grown fruits and vegetables.
Regarding Cheney — IF he claims to be neither executive nor legislative, then he cant keep claiming “executive privilege” Subpoena his butt to Capitol Hill! Second, I think maybe he is using missing emails to wipe his butt as well…
XXX — I have been a “Wichitan” basically all my life… I am back to living in the same house where I grew up…
Kellogg will NEVER be finished… They have been working on it for MANY Years…. I remember when Kellogg had the famous “bridge to nowhere” when I was a kid… it was sort of a laughing stock local joke… Just about the time they get Kellogg and Rock all done, they will remember something they forgot to do back at the Washington St. exit, or the downtown exits, or, etc., etc.
Sort of like in Houston with I-45..
Tell your wife not to feel bad… even old Wichita VETS can make that wrong turn onto the turnpike if we arent real careful!! LOL
“I love him! Any man that can keep the liberal’s panties in a permanent wad the way he can is my hero.”
Hank,Your hero is someone who is trying to keep everything he does a secret from Americans. I would rather have no heros than one like that. BTW the Republicans did a lot of fishing expeditions when Clinton was in office, it’s called oversight.
Hank, I’ll have to agree with you… I live in Goddard and the proposal for Kellogg between 183rd and 215th st is ridiculous…
Talk about FUBAR’d, they (KDOT) will build a 3 mile long, 15′ to 30′ tall wall that will extend from east of 183rd, to west of 215th s. This wall is the retaining walls to raise the level of Kellogg that entire distance so Goddard can have its cross unders (the only thing they even considered to benifit the city).
The problem there is that they will raise the level of the road, therefor allowing the noise pollution associated with the highway to protrude farther into the city than ever before. With the under crossings, the city will be limited in number allowed and to their location, no room for expansion or addition in the future.
There will be only one on ramp and off ramp for the city, which isn’t a huge deal, but the design that KDOT came up with isn’t the most well designed thing in the world. IF KDOT has thier way, they will close access to about a dozen existing businesses along Kellogg, therefor closing them.
I proposed at the city council meetings in Goddard, a plan to lower Kellogg (somewhat like East Kellogg between Oliver and Rock) and to provide for as many or few crossings over Kellogg (N. S. Crossings) as the city would want. The nice thing, the city/county/KDOT could go back and add crossings if necessary at any time.
My ideas were supported 100% by the city council and members of the community, but were rejected by KDOT as infeasible, even though i had an environmental scientist, a engineer from the city of Wichita and numerous construction companies all review and approve my drawings and plans as possible, even cheaper than KDOTS plan.
KDOT is only interested in their designs, if someone else’s comes up with something, they are too embarrassed that a normal citizen could come up with a design better than theirs…
KDOT is not out to help the community, they are out there to help truckers to get from point a to point b as fast as they can with as few stops as they can.
Today’s Bush Family Evil Empire: Scandal Du Jour comes to you thanks to outlander.
Yesterday, he tried to argue that (Bush critic) Richard Clarke was responsible for spiriting Saudis out of the country when most flights–especially private ones–were grounded.
To support his case, he cited a Vanity Fair article.
Well, I tracked down that October 2003, VF article, entitled “Saving the Saudis” and it turns out it is a gold-mine of how GEE-DUBYA pulled strings to get his Saudi friends out of the country. And some of those “friends” had clear ties to terrorism.
Thanks, outlander!
First, did Clarke authorize the flights out of the US. Yes. And no.
He authorized ONE flight with three Saudis on it. But only after the FBI assured him that THEY had authorized it.
The other flights that sneaked out some 135 Saudis were NOT authorized by Clarke.
Now, to the juicy bits:
Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the 52-year-old Saudi Arabian ambassador to the United States, had been in Washington orchestrating the exodus of about 140 Saudis scattered throughout the country who were members of, or close to, two enormous families. One was the House of Saud, the family that rules the Royal Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and that, owing to its vast oil reserves, is the richest family in the world. The other was the ruling family’s friends and allies the bin Ladens, who, in addition to owning a multi-billion-dollar construction conglomerate, had spawned the notorious terrorist Osama bin Laden. Thanks to the bin Ladens’ extremely close relationship with the House of Saud, the family’s huge construction company, the Saudi Binladin Group, had won contracts to restore the holy mosques in Mecca and Medina, two of the greatest icons in all of Islam.
The repatriation of the Saudis is far more than just a case of wealthy Arabs being granted special status by the White House under extraordinary conditions. For one thing, in the two years since September 11, a number of highly placed Saudis, including both bin Ladens and members of the royal family, have come under fire for their alleged roles in financing terrorism. Four thousand relatives of the victims of 9/11 have filed a $1 trillion civil suit in Washington, D.C., charging the House of Saud, the bin Ladens, and hundreds of others with wrongful death, conspiracy, and racketeering for having contributed tens of millions of dollars to charities that were al-Qaeda fronts. Newsweek has reported that Prince Bandar’s wife, perhaps unwittingly, sent thousands of dollars to charities that ended up funding the hijackers. In addition, F.B.I. documents marked “Secret” indicate that two members of the bin Laden family, which has repeatedly distanced itself from Osama bin Laden, were under investigation by the bureau for suspected associations with an Islamic charity designated as a terrorist support group.
Most recently, in July, the administration asked Congress to withhold 28 pages of its official report on 9/11. According to news reports, the classified section charges that there were ties between the hijackers and two Saudis, Omar al-Bayoumi and Osama Bassnan, who had financial relationships with members of the Saudi government. Saudi officials deny that their government was in any way linked to the attacks. The Saudis have asked that the pages be declassified so they can refute them, but President Bush has refused.
Terrorism experts say that the Saudis who were in the U.S. immediately after the attacks might have been able to shed light on the structure of al-Qaeda and to provide valuable leads for investigating 9/11. And yet, according to sources who participated in the repatriation, they left the U.S. without even being interviewed by the F.B.I.
Officially, the White House declined to comment, and a source inside asserted that the flights never took place.
[Note: WE NOW KNOW THAT THE WHITE HOUSE SOURCE WAS LYING THROUGH HIS TEETH!]
. . . .
The Bush family and the House of Saud, the two most powerful dynasties in the world, have had close personal, business, and political ties for more than 20 years. In the 80s, when the elder Bush was vice president, he and Prince Bandar became personal friends. Together, they lobbied through massive U.S. arms sales to the Saudis and participated in critical foreign-policy ventures. In the 1991 Gulf War, the Saudis and the elder Bush were allies.In the private sector, the Saudis supported Harken Energy, a struggling oil company in which George W. Bush was an investor. Most recently, former president George H. W. Bush and former secretary of state James A. Baker III, his longtime ally, have appeared before Saudis at fund-raisers for the Carlyle Group, arguably the biggest private equity firm in the world. Today, former president Bush continues to serve as a senior adviser to the firm, whose investors allegedly include a Saudi accused of ties to terrorist support groups.
“It’s always been very clear that there are deep ties between the Bush family and the Saudis,” says Charles Lewis, head of the Center for Public Integrity, a Washington, D.C., foundation that examines issues of ethics in government. “It creates a credibility problem. When it comes to the war on terror, a lot of people have to be wondering why we are concerned about some countries and not others. Why does Saudi Arabia get a pass?”
The Tampa-to-Lexington flight, which was reported in the Tampa Tribune in October 2001, is the only documented incident in which Saudis had been granted access to American airspace when U.S. citizens were still restricted from flying privately-access that required special government approval.
How did the phantom flight from Tampa get permission to take off? At the time, the F.A.A. denied the flight had taken place at all. “It’s not in our logs,” Chris White, a spokesman for the F.A.A., told the Tampa Tribune. “It didn’t occur.” On the record, the White House declined to comment, but privately a source there said the administration was confident that no secret flights took place and that there was no evidence to suggest that the White House had authorized such flights. According to Nail al-Jubeir, however, the repatriation had been approved “at the highest level of the U.S. government.”
In fact, the F.B.I. had been keeping an eye on some of the bin Ladens. A classified F.B.I. file examined by Vanity Fair and marked “Secret” shows that as early as 1996 the bureau had spent nearly nine months investigating Abdullah and Omar bin Laden, who were involved with the American branch of the World Assembly of Muslim Youth (wamy), a charity that has published writings by Islamic scholar Sayyid Qutb, one of Osama bin Laden’s intellectual influences. But, according to Dale Watson, the F.B.I.’s former head of counterterrorism, such investigations into Saudis in the United States were the exception. “If allegations came up, they were looked into,” he says. “But a blanket investigation into Saudis here did not take place.”
Not long after 9/11, Carmen bin Laden, an estranged sister-in-law of Osama’s, told ABC News that she thought members of the family might have given money to Osama. Osama’s brother-in-law Mohammed Jamal Khalifa was widely reported to be an important figure in al-Qaeda and was accused of having ties to the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, to the October 2000 bombing of the U.S.S. Cole, and to the funding of a Philippine terrorist group. (Khalifa was rumored to be in the Philippines in September 2001.)
Khalil bin Laden, who boarded a plane in Orlando that eventually took him back to Saudi Arabia, won the attention of Brazilian investigators for possible terrorist connections. According to a Brazilian paper, he had business connections in the Brazilian province of Minas Gerais, not far from the tri-border region, an alleged center for training terrorists.
Then there were the secret F.B.I. documents detailing Abdullah and Omar bin Laden’s involvement with the World Assembly of Muslim Youth. Indian officials and the Philippine military have both cited wamy for funding terrorism in Kashmir and the Philippines. “wamy was involved in terrorist-support activity,” says a security official who served under George W. Bush. “There’s no doubt about it.”
“These documents show there was an open F.B.I. investigation into these guys at the time of their departure,” says David Armstrong, an investigator for the Public Education Center, the Washington, D.C., foundation that obtained the documents.
Last November, Newsweek reported that thousands of dollars in charitable gifts from Princess Haifa, the wife of Prince Bandar, had indirectly ended up in the hands of two of the September 11 hijackers. And many members of the royal family, along with several members of the bin Laden family, are now defendants in the $1 trillion class-action lawsuit filed on behalf of 4,000 relatives of 9/11 victims.Documents filed in the suit allege that Prince Bandar’s father, Defense Minister Prince Sultan, has contributed at least $6 million since 1994 to four charities that finance Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda. Sultan’s own attorneys acknowledge that for 16 consecutive years he approved annual payments of about $266,000 to the International Islamic Relief Organization-a Saudi charity whose U.S. offices were raided by federal agents.
. . . .
It began in the mid-70s, when two young Saudi billionaires-Salem bin Laden, Osama’s older brother and the head of the Saudi Binladin Group, and Khalid bin Mahfouz, a billionaire Saudi banker-first came to Texas hoping to forge political relationships. To represent their American interests, they chose a Houston businessman named James R. Bath, who knew George W. Bush from the Texas Air National Guard. Bath invested $50,000 in Bush’s new oil company, Arbusto. He denies, however, that his investment represented the Saudis’ interests.
In 1986, George W. Bush sold the latest incarnation of his failing oil company to Harken Energy, an independent Texas oil company that was struggling itself, and took a seat on its board of directors. By then, Khalid bin Mahfouz had become the largest stockholder in the Bank of Commerce & Credit International, or B.C.C.I., an international bank which financed drug dealers, terrorists, and covert operations and which became known as the most corrupt financial institution in history.
Once Bush was with Harken, a phantom courtship by Khalid bin Mahfouz and B.C.C.I. began. Neither George W. Bush nor Harken ever had any direct contact with bin Mahfouz or B.C.C.I. Yet once Bush took his seat on the board, wonderful things started to happen to Harken-new investments, unexpected sources of financing, serendipitous drilling rights.
Among those with links to B.C.C.I. who came to Harken’s aid were the Arkansas investment bank Stephens Inc., Saudi investor Sheik Abdullah Bakhsh, and the Emir of Bahrain, who unexpectedly awarded Harken exclusive offshore drilling rights. In 1991, a Wall Street Journal investigation into Harken’s B.C.C.I. ties concluded, “The number of B.C.C.I.-connected people who had dealings with Harken-all since George W. Bush came on board-likewise raises the question of whether they mask an effort to cozy up to a presidential son.”
After George H. W. Bush and James Baker returned to the private sector in 1993, they finally began to reap the benefits of their friendship with the Saudis. That year, Baker took a position as senior counselor with the Carlyle Group, the $16 billion private-equity firm. Two years later, Bush signed on as senior adviser. In 1998, former British prime minister John Major joined the firm as well.
According to The Washington Post, Prince Bandar was among those who invested. In 1995 the bin Ladens joined in. Khalid bin Mahfouz’s sons Abdulrahman and Sultan became investors as well, according to family attorney Cherif Sedky. Abdulrahman bin Mahfouz was a director of the Muwafaq Foundation, which has been designated by the U.S. Treasury Department as “an al-Qaeda front.” “Abdulrahman and Sultan made an investment in one of the Carlyle funds in 1995 which is in the neighborhood of $30 million,” Sedky wrote in an e-mail. “The investment is held for their benefit by Sami Ba’arma,” an investment manager who has often worked with the bin Mahfouz family. Sedky added that the bin Mahfouz family condemns terrorism and denies that funds it has given to charities have been used to finance terror. Carlyle categorically denies that the bin Mahfouzes are now or have ever been investors. Reached on vacation in Michigan, Cherif Sedky stood by his original statement. “I assume that Carlyle has records of investments from somebody on the bin Mahfouz side, whether it is with Sami Ba’arma as a nominee or someone else,” he said. He added that Ba’arma was a first cousin of the bin Mahfouz brothers.
In all, Carlyle officials say that the Saudis have invested $80 million in the firm. It is unclear how much of that was raised following meetings attended by former president George Bush or James Baker. The bin Ladens put $2 million in the Carlyle Partners II Fund, a relatively small sum that was said to be part of a larger package. One family member, Shafig bin Laden, was attending an investor conference held by the Carlyle Group in Washington on September 11, 2001. But after the attacks of that day, Carlyle bought out the bin Ladens’ interest.
. . . .
Only a few days earlier, some planes, such as the one carrying a heart to be transplanted to a deathly ill cardiac patient in Olympia, Washington, had been forced down in midflight. According to F.B.I. spokesman John Iannarelli, F.B.I. counterterrorism agents pursuing the investigation were stranded all over the country, unable to fly for several days. Yet now the same counterterrorism unit was effectively acting as a chaperone for the Saudis. Astonishingly, the repatriation was routed through Logan and Newark, two of the airports where, just a few days earlier, the hijackings had originated.
So there you have it, folks.
15 of 19 terrorists that committed the worst crime in American history were from Saudi Arabia.
And just days after that event, some 140 Saudis, some of whom were RELATIVES of Osama bin Laden, people the FBI were investigating for TERRORISM, were allowed to fly out of the country.
Meanwhile, Joe Arab who owns the Quikie Mart was getting harassed by US law enforcement as a potential terrorist.
While hospital flights for heart transplants were forced down, the Saudis flew out and the White House LIED about it.
Coincidentally, the Saudis contributed 80 MILLION DOLLARS to a firm that George H. W. Bush and James Baker just happen to sit on the board of directors.
Yup.
This has been your Bush Family Evil Empire: Scandal Du Jour.
And thanks again, outlander, for the lead . . .
You know me Capn; always willing to lend a brain where it is obviously needed. I don’t have time now to read your latest 10 page copy and paste job Capn, but if it as accurate as your last alleged Bush scandal, it will soon be nuked out of the water. Not saying there may not be a nugget of truth in it somewhere. If you look hard enough.
By the way, Capn, I notice you are starting to recycle old news. Perhaps in the hope that people will forget how it was discredited long ago???
Hank–
Just remember that every right you give to Bush-Cheney will then have to be granted to President Gore and Vice-President Obama.
Think about it, friend.
CapA
outlander–
What we’re finding with these “discredited” (by who, NewsMax, hahahaha) scandals is that new facts show them to be right on the mark.
Consider the new documents Judical Watch unearthed by FOIA.
OSAMA BIN LADEN may have chartered flights out of the US.
That’s what it says . . . you couldn’t make this sh*t up.
Another cooked up conspiracy by the Capn. He uses magazine rags and Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 911 where they get paid by the pound for inventing news. BTW, when Michael Moore gets paid by the pound, he makes a fortune. :)
I think you’re wasting your time here Capn. You should be working for the National Enquirer writing about two-headed Aliens and stuff.
Good morning Capn!
Interesting that you could bring up BCCI and never stumble across the Slick Willie connections!
Just for fun, GOOGLE “BCCI Clinton” and tell me what you find.
BCCI and Saudi Arabia isn’t a republican scandal, it’s a Washington scandal. The Arabs will buy anyone in Washington that’s for sale.
Hank
“OSAMA BIN LADEN may have chartered flights out of the US.” -CapnA
I think I read somewhere that Saddam may have been on that flight.
An al qaeda link?
CapA,Long, but worthwhile read. Keep it coming, Bro.
Outie, it may be “old news” but that doesn’t make it any less germane. Why are you ok with having our government allow possible material witnesses to the worst terrorist attack in our history to leave the country? Who’s side are you on?
Hey CapA!
Then why didn’t the right to have access to any FBI files of your political enemies that you want apply to Bush?
How come the Clinton’s were the only administration to get a pass?
Just wondering.
Hank
The roads are mainly tore up because of the winter we had. The freeze expanded any water in the road and we ended up with holes in the road everywhere. I also think there may be some liability involved, so the city is moving quick to fix the problems.
As a side note: “Another of Pickens’ companies, Mesa Water Inc., has plans to pump water from West Texas and sell it to urban areas. Some landowners who attended the Tuesday meeting already had sold Pickens the rights to water from the Ogallala Aquifer beneath their land.”
The same aquifer that feeds western Kansas is now going to feed Dallas/Fort Worth. That is water that should NOT be privatly owned. I’m all for capitalism, but not when it comes to the necessities of life. Pickens’ needs to be stopped by all four states whose boundries are involved with the aquifer.
Stumper,
This is what happens when you don’t include geologic processes in your land deals (water rights, mineral rights, petroleum,etc.)
Lot of land poor Okies and Texans who own hundreds of acres and have oil company rigs on their land because of the way the land deals were made.
Good morning Hank!
“Just for fun, GOOGLE “BCCI Clinton” and tell me what you find.”Posted by: Hank Price | June 22, 2007 at 11:28 AM
I did just that. In fact, I followed a number of the links. A lot of it was incestuous (same exact words). Looked like a lot of unfounded or discredited accusations and finger pointing. If Clinton was guilty of any of this stuff, wouldn’t he be in jail right now? With as many people as are out to get Clinton, where are the investigations?
As one poster says, “they got nothing”.
The Earth does not change in its pitch, but rather remains at the same pitch, but presents a different angle to the Sun as it rotates around the sun 360 degrees.
Think about it.
Repuke,
“and Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 911 where they get paid by the pound for inventing news.”
Repuke invents false claims,http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/open_thread_28.html#comment-71041282
Michael Moore reported the facts,
‘Factual Back-Up For Fahrenheit 9/11′http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-films/f911reader/index.php?id=16
Good info re solstice, etc…
Tutorial on Earth/Sun Relations and Seasonshttp://daphne.palomar.edu/jthorngren/tutorial.htm
All, a question.
Am I the only one getting hit with a “comment verification” for every post?
This is getting to be a pain in the butt!
Some will let you come to their farm, others will drop things off at your house or work, or they will put together an order for you to pick up at the market. Or they make “drops” during the week if they are in town.
I suggest you all go a couple of times to see what it is like. I had the best taquito of pork with chopped onions, cilantro and lime juice at the Wichita Farmers Market. They had fresh, locally produced cheese and other non-veggie food items.
I dont think you’ll be sorry if you go. And most of the early morning markets offer coffee and breakfast items.
Could there be anything better on a sunny Kansas morning?
Well, maybe a winning lottery ticket. But otherwise? I dont think so.Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | June 22, 2007 at 09:35 AM
Me either.
You’re exactly right. There’s also a farmer’s market (more of a mini-market) that’ll set up soon at 21st & Webb. You can subscribe to a produce farmer and pick it up every Wednesday night. This is right on my way home and is just a fantastic way to larder up mid-week.
The produce offerred in our farmer’s markets here in Wichita is outstanding. And I just can’t say enough about the vendors, either. Lotsa people here like to talk about going back to the 1950s when people were honest yada yada, and our farmer’s markets are about as close as you can get to what people wish things were like again.
Lot of land poor Okies and Texans who own hundreds of acres and have oil company rigs on their land because of the way the land deals were made.
No such thing as land poor in Texas. Goat pasture sells for thousands an acre.
cosmos – who was that horrible lying actor Moore had doing that parody of Bush in Fahrenheit 911?
Ben,
He even “won” an award for it…
http://www.razzies.com/asp/directory/25thWinners.htm““WINS” per PICTURE:FAHRENHEIT 9/11 = 4 Worst Actor, Supporting Actor, Supporting Actress & Screen Couple”
I get the verification message quite a lot too… maybe trying to find “trolls”
Good afternoon XXX!
Hey boy, you and JM inerested in the great first annual shooting match between the libs, libitarians and cons?
So far we have enough for a good BBQ afterwards.
Cons:
Hank, The Boy and GMC70
Libs:
Ben and his boy
Libitarians:
.morg and his boy
Just for your info, my new glasses aren’t helping my marksmanship. I told the eye doctor my problem and she says I now need tri-focals. I refused and I still can’t see the sight at the end of my pistol.
Hank
FAHRENHEIT 9/11 = 4 Worst Actor, Supporting Actor, Supporting Actress & Screen Couple
Cool …
25th Razzies,”WORST SCREEN COUPLEGeorge W. Bush & EITHER Condoleeza Rice OR His Pet Goat / FAHRENHEIT 9/11″
Here at work I first get an error message asking for my name and email even though it’s there.
Then I get the verification thingy, sometimes twice. Never seem to have a problem at any of the computers at home.
Hank
That was very perceptive you, CapnAmerica, in noting that rules set for one person will be in effect for the successor.
The economist Walter E. Williams once put it like this:
“The kind of rules we should have are the kind that we’d make if our worst enemy were in charge. My mother created a mini-version of such a rule. Sometimes she would ask either me or my sister to evenly divide the last piece of cake or pie to share between us. More times than not, an argument ensued about the fairness of the division. Those arguments ended with Mom’s rule: Whoever cuts the cake lets the other take the first piece. As if by magic or divine intervention, fairness emerged and arguments ended. No matter who did the cutting, there was an even division.”
I’m really pleased that you’re starting to discover that a powerful and intrusive government is not a good thing.
Hank,I’d love to attend a shootin match! BBQ makes it even better. Sorry I can’t participate as a contestant, but Doc says it’s going to be a while before I can fire the “hand cannon”. Even firing it one-handed is out, considering the shock wave. How about I bring it along and you and Nathan can do a demo, considering I still have a box of bullets you paid for?
I might try a few rounds with the Nine or the Tomcat, but there’s not much use trying to compete with one hand unless the rest want to try a one-handed handicap round.
Not sure which class I’d fall into since the new democrat congress has pissed me off. I notice you didn’t list Independents.
I can’t speak for Walker…he may have lost interest. He sold me his Casul.
Name a time and place….I’ll be there. I was wanting to see the Boy anyway!
Hank – isn’t the range at Afton?
Hey XXX,
It’ll be one weekend in July probably. Last week I didn’t have much going for July, but my weekends are filling up.
If you’re changing to independent we might have a special class for you! As far as you’re hand cannon goes, I thought we’d keep the weapons used in the match limited to what one would reasonable carry concealed. The Boy has one ordered that I’ll let him tell you about.
Yes Ben,
The range is just west of the Afton Observatory. Very nice range with adult supervision! It’s also pretty close to my house. I’m planning on havong a cookout at our club house afterwards.
Hell, if we can’t get any shooting teams organized we’ll just go over and waste a couple of hundred rounds and then eat!
Hank
Anonymous–
A powerful gov’t can be a good thing or a bad thing–like a powerful car. It just depends on who’s driving it.
Personally, I think the worst thing our gov’t ever did was create a standing Army. This is something that most of the founders were adamantly against.
They knew that a standing Army was always eventually used against its own citizens.
Ours is no exception–it represses us not by pointing its guns at us, but by spawning the military-industrial complex (Halliburton) that sucks down more than HALF of all income taxes gathered.
Does a 4″ .357 count on the upper range of “reasonable carry concealed”?
XXX,
Thanks. Looking forward to seeing you too!
I just ordered the HK P2000sk.
http://www.hk-usa.com/p2000sk_general.html
Looking forward to it’s arrival.
Hey Tom,
Perfect! However, we were thinking of eliminating the little .22 target pistols from the competition. A .357 is about in the middle. When I get my CCH my gun of choice for the truck will be my .45. I’m thinking of a little .38 special for my person.
I have a very nice .38 special 2.5 inch barrel that I will probably compete with at the match. Actually it’s Momma’s pistol but I do like shoooting it! Besides I have about 2500 rounds of wad cutter for it.
You planning on attending? Was that your letter in the paper today?
Hank
I haven’t shot a gun in thirty years, since I stopped hunting rabbits with my old bolt-action single-shot .22.
But I never miss an opportunity to go to a barbecue.
I’m in.
Hank,
Don’t put me on an official list or anything just yet. If I don’t have other events scheduled on whatever weekend you end up choosing, I’ll probably be there. Don’t try to pick a date that works around me, though, because things change for me on short notice.
I haven’t fired the .357, an S&W Model 66, for a while. I’m certain to be pretty rusty.
Yep, that was my letter in the Eagle today.
Hank Price,
Regarding Cheney, glad to see you come out and admit, upthread, that antagonizing liberals matters more to you than does protecting the Constitution.
We all suspected as much, but thanks for putting any doubt to rest.
“I thought we’d keep the weapons used in the match limited to what one would reasonable carry concealed.”Posted by: Hank Price | June 22, 2007 at 02:02 PM
So what’s your point, Hank? (LOL, LOL!)
Nathan, excellent choice! Looks pretty sweet to me. What caliber?
“I thought we’d keep the weapons used in the match limited to what one would reasonable carry concealed.”Posted by: Hank Price | June 22, 2007 at 02:02 PM
So what’s your point, Hank? (LOL, LOL!)
Nathan, excellent choice! Looks pretty sweet to me. What caliber?
Hank -
I’ll likely bring a .357, a .9mm or two, a .45 auto Colt, and probably my wife’s .380. Ammo I’ve got a-plenty, though I’ll likely stock up a bit. Can’t have too much, of course.
I’ve got my own Marine expert marksman in the family too; I may drag him along as a ringer!! He’s done a turn in the sandbox, and is currently at NCO school in Washington. He should be back in time to embarass me at the range.
I very much hope I can meet for this, not only for the shooting, but for the company. Whether I agree with all these folks on other matters or not, you just can’t dislike someone who shoots.
So whether you bring your own iron or not, come on out.
And CF, just when I was assured by WS that liberals had a sense of humor, there you go and remind me that (usually) they don’t.
I’m going to agree with GMC. Right in the middle of having some fun on this blog for a change, along comes CF Sourpuss.
Lighten up, dude.
GMC70,
A fellow Marine heh? I might need to practice a bit so I am not shown up!
XXX,
I am getting the .40 S&W caliber.
I am also getting the version 3 model with decoking lever and hammer with spur.
I am so used to shooting double action/ Saingle action I don’t really want to go to the law wnforcement model.
“Am I the only one getting hit with a “comment verification” for every post?”
Nah, only the ones who type one handed:-)
CNN reported Thursday that the Secret Service expects President Bush to be “a high value terrorist target after he leaves office.” They then showed the Secret Service practicing to deal with everything from James Bond-style stealth weapons to roadside IED’s in order to meet that challenge.
Retired agent Terry Samway told CNN, “We have the mandate to make sure that whatever they did during their presidency, they are still safe from any of those lingering issues after their presidency.”
Even before 9/11, the cost of protection for former presidents was estimated as $24 million a year, and Bush will be guarded by an unprecedented 103 full-time agents starting in January 2009. However, a 1997 law limits the duration of Secret Service protection for former presidents to just 10 years.
Secret Service: Retired Bush will be ‘high value terrorist target’David Edwards and Muriel KanePublished: Thursday June 21, 2007Print This Email This
CNN reported Thursday that the Secret Service expects President Bush to be “a high value terrorist target after he leaves office.” They then showed the Secret Service practicing to deal with everything from James Bond-style stealth weapons to roadside IED’s in order to meet that challenge.
Retired agent Terry Samway told CNN, “We have the mandate to make sure that whatever they did during their presidency, they are still safe from any of those lingering issues after their presidency.”
Even before 9/11, the cost of protection for former presidents was estimated as $24 million a year, and Bush will be guarded by an unprecedented 103 full-time agents starting in January 2009. However, a 1997 law limits the duration of Secret Service protection for former presidents to just 10 years.
“But before they can protect a president or former president,” concluded CNN, “the new recruits are drilled in the basics, including target practice at 100 yards and then a sprint to load and fire again — this time much more up close and personal.”
——————————–This guy is going to have a bullseye on his back for the rest of his life. After the tens years are up he can have Blackwater guard him. One piece of good news though, I don’t think the Vice-President gets protection. He will need Blackwater from day one.
Yeah, CF2K is so obviously devoid of humor. Right. Whatever. My bad for taking Hank Price at his word.
But even if that weren’t the case, it’s a fairly doofussy notion that Hank Price wrote anything remotely funny. Or, for that matter, that “conservatives” understand humor. Irony? Totally lost on them. Puns? They don’t get them–too literate. Slapstick they occasionally get, but their appreciation goes only as far as the Three Stooges. Satire? Forget it. Conservatives seem to lack any ability to see things as other than they presently are, which leaves them coldly immune to the reversal/inversion that underlies most humor.
No, the main thing “conservatives” find funny is when a bigger or more powerful person beats up on a lesser or weaker person. That’s why they flock to Rush–or, for that matter, to Bush, who delights in cruelly tormenting his lessers, like the fratboy he is and always will be.
For the record, CF likes shootin’ guns, but he found the above conversation pointless enough that he saw nothing wrong with interrupting it. “Open Thread” and all. Y’all don’t own the place, GMC70 and XXX.
It’s a start, arresting criminal aliens (I thought they were all breaking the law).Scores arrested in California immigration raids By Dan WhitcombFri Jun 22, 4:04 PM ET
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) – Scores of illegal immigrants, including a man wanted for murder and a convicted child molester, were arrested in Southern California raids this week, U.S. authorities said on Friday.
ADVERTISEMENTThe sweeps in Orange County, south of Los Angeles, were part of an operation by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement targeting “criminal aliens” — defined as people in the country illegally who have also committed other crimes.
Of the 175 people arrested, 27 are criminal aliens and another 26 are “immigration fugitives” who had ignored deportation orders by a judge.
The raids were part of larger crackdown on immigration fugitives, which this year has resulted in the first ever decline in their number, to 632,189, according to an agency spokeswoman.
“ICE has been working to aggressively improve the systems that help us identify, target and remove fugitive aliens from the United States,” Julie Myers, assistant secretary of homeland security for ICE, said in a statement.
The U.S. Senate is still struggling with a massive immigration overhaul, backed by President George W. Bush, that would legalize millions of illegals despite furious opposition from conservatives.
California, which shares a border with Mexico, has been at the forefront of the debate as its immigrant population has swelled in the past four decades, driving the state’s population to more than 37 million.
Among those arrested in the raids was Almarez Reveles Gonzalo, 35, wanted in Mexico for the murder of his 74-year-old uncle, ICE said. He was turned over to Mexican authorities.
Also arrested was Jamie Pena-Martinez, 30, a Mexican national previously convicted of child molestation who was ordered deported.
Most of those arrested in the raids were Mexicans, but others came from India, Kenya, the Philippines and Columbia. Of the 175 arrested, ICE said, 100 had already been deported
Reading CF’s diatribe. No, no issues there . . . . .
Geez, CF – got the cob stuck very deep? Having trouble sitting down? Or do you need a shoulder to cry on?
I thought of inviting you to the shoot personally; and you’re welcome, of course. Just leave your personal issues – and the chip – at home.
GMC70,
Ohhhh, did somebody got his widdle feewings hooout?
And like seeming every other Republican, your mind went straight to, well, anuses. CF2K sees no need to comment further: your comment seems to explain itself.
As for the invite, GMC70, gracias, but CF2K is currently visiting the Peoples’ Republic of Seattle, and will be travelling to various points “out West” through most of July. No need to wait up for me. Another time, perhaps.
This is a .pdf of Waxman’s letter to Cheney regarding executive order 12958:
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2007_cr/waxman062107.pdf
A long discussion of the method to Cheney’s madness, here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/06/22/BL2007062201022.html
I can’t see where Cheney has a chance in this showdown. It may be interesting to see what he’s been hiding.
CF can you run? Can you run very fast? Serpentine?
I definitely agree about CF and the “cob.” Must have went in sideways.
Tragedy Turned to Political Advantage. What Else?
9 South Carolina Firefighters Remembered
http://www.campaignfollies.com/index.php?modulo=noticias&acao=exibir_aberto&subacao=semComentarios&idBiblioteca=617
Those pesky liberals are at it again. Ha,ha.
“Sen. Dick Durbin goes after Cheney”
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/06/22/sen-dick-durbin-goes-after-cheney/
Hmmm. I might be up for shooting more than my mouth off. Er, and I damn sure hope it don’t come to that since I haven’t shot anything in years.
Grew up on a farm, though. Owned my grandfather’s bolt-action .22 when was 10, and my dad took me to Plainsmans Supply when I was 12 to buy a .410. In other words, I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night!
After recently returning from work once again past 7pm, I happened to notice that the sun was still out. So I opened the curtains for the first time since last fall. Hell, no more winter. The season has changed everybody!!
Might be time to explore some hobbies.
No gun, but I might watch. If somebody feels generous enough to loan me a firearm, and let’s me pay for the ammo, I might shoot it ifn I can pass muster with the Marine Corps first.
Nice URL Delores, why don’t you go out and kick some nuns while you’re at it.
People are going hungry. I have a friend who is a sheriff deputy. Today she called just completely bummed out, she had to go arrest a poor old man- he and his wife had major surgeries, and he wrote a bad check to cover his 400 dollar medications. He was so poor they ate their last can of food. She literally stood there while he showed her the cupboards were bare.
This, in America folks. Their 1100 dollars a month in disability wasn’t enough to pay the bills, the meds, the surgeries, the electric.
SHE right now is going through her cupboards and is going to take her own food over to their house so at least the wife has something to eat while he sits in jail tonight. I just went through my own cupboards and gave what I could spare. It makes me sick.
Pedant
Looks like we’ll have plenty of firearms. Also, I have enough .38 wad cutter to keep us shooting all day. I have a bunch of .45 semi wad cutter but it’s not enough to cycle the 1911 I have, jams every other round.
Anyone that wants to shoot but doesn’t have a gun, no problem. Nathan will be glad to give instruction to anyone that wants it.
I’ll come up with some July dates tomorrow.
Hank
It happens PMom, but there are alternatives to help these folks out. You can bet if a church heard about them, they would have brought sacks and sacks of groceries to them, made sure the utilities were taken care of and helped them out with their medicaid or medicare.
I’ve been on dozens of grocery visits myself. Contact any Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian or Catholic church of size and they will attend to the problem.
Oh yeah,
If you don’t have a firearm, I would be more than glad to allow you to use mine.
I can teach safety, firearms handling, firearms function, and basic marksmanship to any interested.
You can go to interfaith ministries, The Methodist Church, and many others who all have food warehouses who would be more than willing to help out.
Hank or Nathan: I’ve been thinking about getting handgun. I’ve got a 12 gauge and a 22 caliber rifle but haven’t ever owned a handgun. What would you recommend?
Nathan we don’t live in Wichita. The food bank in a neighboring town here gives maybe a few days of food- most of it canned veggies.
I’ve thought about asking her to contact the churches and see if they can bring them groceries too.
A lot of those places do a one time help and that’s it. Too bad that most people like that don’t have just one time needs.
This Sounds Like a Good Idea:
PUT “ICE” (In Case of Emergency) IN YOUR CELL PHONE
A recent article from the Toronto Star, “the ICE idea”, is catching on and it is a very simple, yet important method of contact for you or a loved one in case of an emergency. As cell phones are carried by the majority of the population, all you need to do is program the number of a contact person or persons and store the name as “ICE”. The idea was thought up by a paramedic who found that when they went to the scenes of accidents, there were always mobile phones with patients, but they didn’t know which numbers to call.He therefore thought that it would be a good idea if there was a nationally recognized name to file “next of kin” under. Following a disaster in London, the East Anglian Ambulance Service has launched a national “In case of Emergency (ICE)” campaign. The idea is that you store the word “ICE” in your mobile phone address book, and with it enter the number of the person you would want to be contacted “In Case of Emergency “. In an emergency situation, Emergency Services personnel and hospital staff would then be able to quickly find the contact information under “ICE”.Please forward this. It won’t take too many “forwards” before everybody will know about this. It really could save your life, or put a loved one’s mind at rest. For more than one contact name simply enter ICE1, ICE2, ICE3 etc.A great idea that could make a difference!
outlander,
One of the first questions to consider when purchasing a handgun is the purpose.
What/Why do you want it?
Of course you need to also consider who will be using it? Do you want others to be able to use it… wife?
Do you have a preferene on larger caliber .45 pistols or want to go smaller 9mm? More recoil vs less recoil?
What do you want to spend?
There are more questions, but those are the basic ones to get started with.
These days I would recommend any Glock/Springfield XD series/S&W MP Series.
They are all pretty good average priced, reliable hand guns.
I would say you would be looking at spending 300-500 dollars for what I would consider to be a decent semi auto pistol.
Of course I am more of a high end gun lover. I like the HK and Sig handguns which run 600-1000 dollar range.
I am not going to tell you to always go with this or that. I have my preferences, but every gun lover does.
Buying a gun to me is like making a committment for life. It is something I look at with great detail and forethought.
Yeah, so, answer those questions and I can help point you in the right direction.
If I was to carry a handgun, which I wouldn’t do cause I’m a horrible shot.
I would carry a 44 magnum with an eight inch barrel, just to give me that “Dirty Harry” look and have women ask me, “What’s that bulge or are you carrying an eight inch 44 magnum?” :D
Outlander
I’m with Nathan. That depends entirely on what you want to do with the gun. Just some thoughts.
Most people carry semi-autos, if they carry, because they are thinner and generally easier to conceal, but a revolver definitely has a reliability advantage; it’s idiot-proof. Modern autos rarely fail to cycle, if properly maintained with the proper ammo, but revolvers, because of the way they work, don’t carry that risk. Even if a round fails to go boom, just pull the trigger again, and you’ll come around on a fresh round. Semi-autos have the advantage, however, of a slimmer profile, a larger ammo capacity, and faster reload.
That means, for a wheelgun, probably a .38 or a .357. .44 mag is simply to big for carry. .357 mag is one of the most effective rounds ever, but the recoil can be hard to handle in a smaller gun.
If you go auto, I’d recommend no caliber smaller than .380, and that’s the extreme end. 9mm is probably a better low end caliber, and 9mm carries some advantages; i.e. ammo is cheap and easy to get (that means you can practice, a lot) and the capacity of the pistol is larger without the gun necessarily being larger. .40 S&W is common in law enforcement around here, and .45 is the large bore choice. There are a few others, but they’re unusual, which means your choices are fewer.
If you want to consider an auto, consider a 1911 in .45 ACP. Proven effective round, proven design, simple, reliable, easy to conceal if you wish to do so. 9mm is generally considered to be a less effective round, but as noted above, it has it’s advantages. Personally, I’m not a fan of .40 S&W, especially in a small pistol, it snaps on recoil more than a .45, and is generally considered less effective. But that’s a personal choice.
Come shoot a variety of handguns, and see what you like. I think we’re all willing to share.
CF – whatever. If you can’t play nice, well . . . just stay in Seattle.
Overall, there’s a lot to be said for 1911 .45 cal. semi-auto. For size, they’re unmatched for knock-down due to the slow speed of the projectile. If you hit an attacker anywhere, they’ll almost always go down.
“Knock-down” is a myth.
NO round will “knock down” an attacker off his feet. Think about it; if the round carries enough energy to knock someone down, the shot would also “knock down” the shooter (every action has equal and opposite reaction, remember?).
No, a .45 simply opens a greater wound channel, increasing the likelihood of hitting a vital area, or increasing the speed of bleedout. A .45 hollow point can expand to .60 caliber, maybe more; that’s a lot of wound channel.
And that’s the point – to end the threat, and as quickly as possible.
BTW – a .45 is the only round where using ball ammo would be acceptable; in any other, especially .380 or 9mm, it is vital to use a quality hollowpoint. With a .380, you face the dilemma of the expanding round not carrying enough energy to penetrate deep enough to hit a vital area. That’s why I generally think a full-size 9×19 to be the minimum effective round.
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