Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/22
- CapnAmerica on Health care reform would save state money
- Monkeyhawk on Open thread 11/22
- CapnAmerica on Open thread 11/22
- Phantom on Health care reform would save state money
- Monkeyhawk on Minority status in Senate; majority approval at home
- Phantom on Health care reform would save state money
- CapnAmerica on Open thread 11/22
- Phantom on Health care reform would save state money
- writerdog on Minority status in Senate; majority approval at home
Open thread 6/28
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted June 28, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
- Permalink
- Comments RSS
- Both comments and trackbacks are closed
290 Comments
Anybody care for some brownies?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070627/od_nm/indonesia_marijuana_dc;_ylt=ApAYEXa8JTi1xGY5koeFVrbMWM0F
Politician okays marijuana in food
Wed Jun 27, 12:20 PM ET
JAKARTA (Reuters) – Indonesian Vice President Jusuf Kalla, who opposes legalizing marijuana, doesn’t mind the drug being used in cooking, a newspaper reported on Wednesday.
“It’s alright to use it as a food seasoning, but it should not be fully legalized,” Kalla was quoted as saying by the Jakarta Post daily.
Kalla was commenting on a recent study by two Indonesian agencies dealing with drug abuse that recommended the government review its policy to outlaw the use of marijuana for recreational purposes, the Post said.
Many of dishes in Aceh province, where hemp plants are grown, such as mutton and beef curry are said to be laced with marijuana seeds to give them a distinctive local flavor.
A drug expert from the National Narcotics Agency reportedly said Indonesia should follow the example of countries like the Netherlands, where marijuana is legal, because it is not as harmful as people thought.
Ratna Dwikora, the owner of an Acehnese food restaurant in Jakarta, told the Kompas newspaper “marijuana is available in any Acehnese kitchen just like coriander.”
“Marijuana is a widely-accepted cooking spice there,” she told the newspaper.
Indonesia imposes harsh penalties, including death, for narcotic offences as the country faces a growing drug menace.
Five Chinese nationals, a Dutchman and a Frenchman who appealed against the length of their convictions on drug charges were instead sentenced to death last month.
Six young Australians were sentenced to death last year for heroin smuggling on Bali, sparking anger in Australia where capital punishment has been abolished.
What, no Tiahrt comment today?
Come on Eagle, you haven’t attacked Tiahrt or the 2nd Amendment for a couple of days now. You slippin up?
Don’t you love the headline in today’s paper? Be careful with fireworks.Tomorrow’s headline: Please wipe when you are through.Saturday’s headline: Do not run with scissors.
Fleet sadly every year there are those that try out for the stupidest humans on earth. The classic is who did not know coffee was hot? Of course we will know we arrived the day that gun manufacturers have to put the following warning out: WARNING, putting a loaded gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger can cause death and or disfigurement. We strongly advise not putting a loaded weapon in your mouth or pointing it at anyone you love. You ever questioned why it was humans that deemed that humans are the smartest animals on the planet.
writerdog,
“… every year there are those that try out for the stupidest humans on earth. The classic is who did not know coffee was hot?”
Was it common knowledge in 1992 that a 49 cent of coffee could cause large areas of 3rd degree burns?That you’d spend a week in the hospital, have skin grafts, and $11,000 in medical bills? 2 years of disability, and very large areas of permanent scars?
http://www.atla.org/pressroom/FACTS/frivolous/McdonaldsCoffeecase.aspx
Cosmos,
If you are not smart enough to know that coffee is hot, you should not drink coffee. It was a freakin accident. SHE spilled the coffee on herself. McDonald’s didn’t do anything but what she asked, served her a hot cup of coffee. Had the coffee NOT been hot, you can bet you’re a$$ she would have complained.
By show of hands, who here thinks that spilling a fresh cup of coffee on themselves will NOT burn you?
writerdog -
There is a purpose to those blatently obvious dangers: accidents are nature’s way of weeding out the stupid.
Anyone who does not recognize that Preparation H is not to be taken internally is clogging up the gene pool. We can only hope that if their natural stupidity is to do them in, they dispose of themselves before they dilute the gene pool any further.
;-)
BTW – the hot coffee case, while yes it’s obvious coffee is hot, was not the legal insanity commonly believed. When all the facts are known, to be blunt, MickyD’s had it coming.
cosmo = defending idiots
P.S. gmc = ditto
When all the facts are known, to be blunt, MickyD’s had it coming.
Posted by: GMC70 | June 28, 2007 at 09:06 AM
You want to expound a bit more on that one, GMC?? How could anybody NOT know that coffee is HOT?? And the financial pay out was certainly extreme!!
Where are the lawsuits against Starbucks? You can order your coffee ‘extra hot’ – around 180 degrees.
Ok, GMC, McDonalds served incredibly hot coffe in paper thin flimsy plastic cups, I remember that. And ok, award damages in the amount of the victim’s loss, and some reasonable pain and suffering.
$2.9 million awarded to this woman, later reduced to $640,000 by the judge, if my quick web search is accurate. Isn’t that a little too high?
“If you are not smart enough to know that coffee is hot, you should not drink coffee. It was a freakin accident. SHE spilled the coffee on herself. McDonald’s didn’t do anything but what she asked, served her a hot cup of coffee. Had the coffee NOT been hot, you can bet you’re a$$ she would have complained.
By show of hands, who here thinks that spilling a fresh cup of coffee on themselves will NOT burn you?”
NOT third degree burns. Coffee that hot is undrinkable. It is not a reasonable expectation that if you spill hot coffee on yourself, you will recieve burns of such severity that skin grafts are required. The idea that someone would return a cup of coffee that is 140 degrees instead of 185 degrees is laughable.
But then, there are always people who think they can second guess juries who have actually heard and seen the evidence.
Warning: Do not iron clothes while wearing them.
Again, who thinks a fresh cup of coffee will not burn you. Try pouring your cup in your lap right now…
having seen some of the juries verdicts after they have “heard and seen the evidence” I can tell you that quite a few juries give shit about real guilt, all they care is that the big nasty company has money, and the poort victim has none.
Fleetwood= troll who never posts anything beyone shallow one liners.
“Again, who thinks a fresh cup of coffee will not burn you. Try pouring your cup in your lap right now…”
I have, by accident. It hurt…a lot. My skin even peeled.
Even once accidently spilled french fry grease on my foot, that hurt more. I went to the doctor.
Both instances were my own damn fault.
But I didn’t get third degree burns, however.
“Both instances were my own damn fault. ”
As was it hers. SHE spilled the coffee. It was not spilled on her by a McD’s employee.
An ACCIDENT that she caused = 2 million? Rediculous.
Okay, I can;t remember all of the details of the “coffee case” but didn;t she put it between her legs to hold it?
Why would you do that?
And two, wasn;t she old? Nothing wrong with old, but skin, and underlying tissue, damages much easier when old. If she was old, it would have been a contributing factor in the damage
You’re ignoring the point, Sol.
Accidents have consequences. No one questioned that as a result of the coffee spilling on her lap, she would get burned.
The severity of the burn, however, was caused by the temperature that McDonald’s served through a drive through window. Cars are a likely venue for coffee spillage accidents. McDonald’s knew this, knew the coffee they served was too hot to be drunk upon serving, knew the increased risks of severe injury due to spilled coffee accidents.
Third degree burns.
Skin grafts.
McDonald’s was not responsible for the spill, but they were responsible for the severity of the injuries due to the spill, and that severity was avoidable.
That’s why they lost.
It’s like the Ford Pinto years back. If someone stops unexpectedly, an accident with severe damage to the car and injury is likely to occur. The manufacturer is not responsible for the accident.
But if the car explodes, the manufacturer is held responsible for the defect that made the accident much more severe than it should have been.
I know that a car holds gasoline. I know that gasoline explodes. I drive carefully so as not to have an accident. Responsibility.
So to the other point. Why no lawsuits against starbucks? You can order your coffee extra hot.
Libs = wrapping themselves in the warm, fuzzy blanket of victimhood.
fleettwood = defending the indefensible.
Chas,
Read the link,http://www.atla.org/pressroom/FACTS/frivolous/McdonaldsCoffeecase.aspxAlso, McD’s made the jury angry. McD’s said the # of customers burned was insignificant compared to the # of coffees sold — after the jury had seen GRUESOME photos of her burns.
And McD’s lied, claiming customers wanted the coffee extra hot because they drank it later — when their own survey showed customers drank it right away.
SolDevVB,
“SHE spilled the coffee. It was not spilled on her by a McD’s employee.”
There were 700 lawsuits. One woman had similar burns caused by an EMPLOYEE.
McD’s could have 1) warned customers OR 2) lowered the coffee temperature. They refused to do either, so the jury sent them a “message”.
Vaughn or any other lawyer-type that reads this….can you please respond.
Does the Supreme Court ruling make it illegal for Wichita to continue to bus students? That’s kind of my impression of the ruling…
Warned customers that the coffee was hot. Hmmmm. Seems like a no brainer. Fresh coffee is hot.
“Also, McD’s made the jury angry. McD’s said the # of customers burned was insignificant compared to the # of coffees sold — after the jury had seen GRUESOME photos of her burns.”
Kind of lets you know why the jury convicted. They were mad. And do the math cosmos, if the # of coffees sold were high, then wouldn’t that lead to customers liking the taste and temperature of the coffee? That would appear to be the way the customers wanted it.
If an employee spilled the coffee, then yes, you can go after the company.
GMC and cosmos are right.
When I first heard about this case, I thought it was ridiculous. And then I read up on it.
There’s a big difference between “hot” coffee of 135-150 degrees F and scalding dangerously hot coffee a few degrees below boiling.
McD’s served scalding hot coffee because it was a way to make its cheap brew taste somewhat better.
Good coffee doesn’t need to be drunk at tongue-boil temperatures.
And since the lawsuit, McD’s has improved their coffee quality and lowered the temp . . .
Please note: It’s the you peoples who are defending this outragous lawsuit. Typical.
Nikki, I cannot answer that question right now. I’ve not read the opinion. One factor in the Wichita busing situation which did not exist, as far as I am aware, in the Louisville case (the Seattle case has different facts) is the consent order with the Office of Civil Rights under which the district here has been operating for over 30 years.
A bit more on the SCOTUS decision on race and public school assignment of students. Again, I’ve not read the opinion. From the synopsis reported on http://www.abcnews.go.com, it would seem to me that in the absence of the consent order mentioned supra, the current USD 259 policy of use of race as a factor in admission of students to magnet schools would fail. Again, there is the consent order to consider in the local situation, the effect of the decision on which is not known to me.
According to the cited media report, the “vote” was 5-4, but there is no one majority opinion. There is a plurality opinion, a concurring opinion, and at least one dissenting opinion.
Thanks Vaughn! I was just wondering what the local effect might be of the ruling! Thanks again!
“I know that a car holds gasoline. I know that gasoline explodes. I drive carefully so as not to have an accident. Responsibility.”
Uhm Sol, do you KNOW anything about the history of the Ford Pinto? Or how typical it is for a car to explode outside of an action movie?
You are totally ignoring the point I am trying to make. You don’t even acknowledge it.
Starbucks is a red herring. They label their extra hot coffee extra hot. Therefore, the consumer has a better understanding of the consequences (although the customer is going to have to wait to drink the cup any way, so I wonder about the sense of what s/he is doing unless they so plan to drink it later).
McDonald’s–>generic cup of coffee, NOT labeled extra hot, and sold primarily to people in cars.
Again, being burned due to a coffee spill is a reasonable expectation. Receiving third degree burns is not. Especially when it is a generic cup of coffee purchased at a drive through window. There is a difference between “damn that hurts” and the emergency room.
SolDevVB
“Warned customers that the coffee was hot. Hmmmm. Seems like a no brainer.”
No… warned customers that McD’s coffee could cause 3rd degree burns in only a few seconds, because it was hotter than normally sold.
McD’s, for obvious reasons, did not want to do that — many customers would go elsewhere.
“Kind of lets you know why the jury convicted. They were mad.”
They based their decision on the facts. And the judge, a self-described conservative Republican, agreed with the jury.
Your Bush Family Evil Empire: Scandal Du Jour is brought to you today by Halliburton Industries.
Doing for dollars what government used to do for pennies, and doing it badly . . . that’s today’s Halliburton!
Scandal Du Jour–Worst. President. Ever. says “F YOU!” to Congressional supoenas
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Bush, moving toward a constitutional showdown with Congress, asserted executive privilege Thursday and rejected lawmakers’ demands for documents that could shed light on the firings of federal prosecutors.
Bush’s attorney told Congress the White House would not turn over subpoenaed documents for former presidential counsel Harriet Miers and former political director Sara Taylor.
“With respect, it is with much regret that we are forced down this unfortunate path which we sought to avoid by finding grounds for mutual accommodation,” White House counsel Fred Fielding said in a letter to the chairmen of the House and Senate Judiciary Committees. “We had hoped this matter could conclude with your committees receiving information in lieu of having to invoke executive privilege. Instead, we are at this conclusion.”
Thursday was the deadline for surrendering the documents. The White House also made clear that Miers and Taylor would not testify next month, as directed by the subpoenas, which were issued June 13. The stalemate could end up with House and Senate contempt citations and a battle in federal court over separation of powers
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-06-28-bush-subpoenas_N.htm
*****
Okay, you heard it from the pResident, folks. Stop obeying any laws that you find inconvenient.
Don’t like somebody’s politics? Fire ‘em! (or get ‘em fired.) That’s what our president does.
When accounting wants your paper work to support your expense account, just tell ‘em “hey, the president doesn’t have to justify anything, why should I?”
Stop paying your taxes. Tell the IRS “I don’t feel like telling you anything. It’s what the president does.”
See how that works out for you . . .
cap’n agreed…hot coffee versus scaldingly hot coffee – a big difference. Imagine instead staying at a hotel where the boiler was set to have the hot water tap produce water just below boiling. You go to prepare a shower, turn the knobs to the ‘expected’ position for a warm shower, test the water with a hand and receive a burn…clearly at least some negligence on the part of McD’s in the one case and the hotel in the other.
So they put a label on the cup – HOT – and everybody is happy.
It’s just senseless.
Wow, values boy really has his whine on today, no?
He’s riding that “poor persecuted majority” horse for all it’s worth, and it is lathered up and breathing hard right now.
Poor persecuted christians. Should we call the waaaaaaaambulance for them? Do they need more money from “faith based initiatives” to make them feel loved?
Poor persecuted majority.
And I noticed the hate values boy never answered the question.
Why DOESNT he go take his snake handling venom to the south?
Sol many people will not drink coffee when it’s hot like that. I am not a coffee drinker, but my mom was, and she’d always order ice water with her coffee in order to plop a few ice cubes into it.
I have spilled hot coffee onto someone’s lap- an elderly person’s lap at that. I dumped a glass of ice water on top of it. She didn’t even have a red mark because my actions stopped the burning immediately.
I used to think that McDonalds should have won that lawsuit, but I don’t any longer after reading what really went behind it.
Reminds me of when I worked in the nursing homes and the state demands that the food be served at a certain temp- hot enough to burn their mouth. It made no sense to me- I realize the food germs have to be killed, but isn’t it just as bad to burn them? Not everyone who worked was conscietious about cooling the food before trying to feed it- especially when there were so many to feed.
Libs = Refusing to take responsibility for ones self.
Caution: Pencils could poke your eye out. Then you will fall down and break your neck.
…and as far as being persecuted for who you are…
As I noted elsewhere, for values boy and his taliban cohorts, karma is SUCH a bitch, aint she?
What goes around comes around. If I were a values boy, I’d be buckling up. Given how he and his taliban breatheren have treated others, I think it’s going to be a bumpy ride as the backlash builds.
Hee hee hee. And I cant wait to buy ringside seats to the show.
ksfarmgrrl–Okay, now I am completely lost-some say that is not unusual-but who is values boy and where is the whining?
Hehe, yup, KGrrl.
Did you see Cal Thomas whining about “divisive partisanship” yesterday?
Holy hypocrisy, Batman! That was rich.
The king of the radical right hate-mongers asks plainatively for both sides to work together and help each other.
Okay, good idea, Cal.
If you bend over, it’ll help me to kick your sorry ass . . .
Plick.
Lj, the WE runs values boy (a MISnomer if ever there was one) on its… wait for it….
EDITORIAL page. Like he is a real columnist or something other than a republican shill who works the jesus crowd. You can find him there, masquerading as a writer intstead of the head of the kansas taliban propaganda machine.
And some say the WE is to the left of center?
Heheheheheheheheheheheheh. Choke. Inhale. Heehehehehehehehehehehehe!
Give me a call when they stop publishing this republican hack who disguises himself as a christian writer.
Values my ass. The only value he holds is how many republicans he can help elect.
Heh. How’s THAT working for him?
Bonbon Huy anyone?
ehehehehehehehehehehehehehehheeheh!
SolDevVB
McD’s didn’t just “put a label on the cup” — they lowered the coffee temperature.And the cup already a label, but it wasn’t very prominent.
fleettwood,
You’re overlooking the fact that McD’s ADMITTED that Liebeck’s jury was right, by lowering the coffee temperature.
LJ–
“Values Boy” is a nick name that KFGrrl came up with for the new op-ed columnist, Brent Castillo. The rest of us Libs embraced the nick whole-heartedly.
He’s always harping on family values. Probably his most infamous column “proved” that Libs were doomed because CONs have much bigger families. Like his family, for instance.
Never mind that Rush Limbaugh, though married and divorced thrice, has no children. Who can think about love-making when you’re hopped up on all that morphine, eh?
Or Ann Coulter, who is already some 45 years old and never married, while haranguing other women to stay home and raise a family.
Nor did ValuesBoy consider the simple fact that millions immigrate from RURAL to URBAN areas every year, and urban voters are more liberal voters.
Yup, old ValuesBoy. Don’t confuse him with the facts. He already knows what he believes.
“McD’s ADMITTED that Liebeck’s jury was right,…”
Now, that’s just silly.
“Yup, old ValuesBoy. Don’t confuse him with the facts. He already knows what he believes.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | June 28, 2007 at 10:50 AM”
Yup. And he KNOWS what WE should all believe as well.
CapnAmerica-
Thanks for your explanation. I had no idea who or what whe was talking about
Ksfarmgrrl-
I still don;t know what the heck you are talking about. Your explanation didn;t explain anything but your opinion of him.
It must be true that the WE, like ann coulter, can NOT be shamed.
If they are not shamed by putting the values republican shill on their EDITORIAL page instead of their church page, they absolutely have NO shame at all.
Or editorial integrity.
LJ, it isnt just my opinion of him. It is the explanation of him.
And I said you could find him on the editorial page. Just look there and TELL me you cant pick out the “values” boy.
He sticks out like a sore thumb amongst the REAL columnists. You cant miss him. I promise. The best I can say about him is that his whining and drivel are unique.
Unless you read phred phelps…
“And I said you could find him on the editorial page. Just look there and TELL me you cant pick out the “values” boy.”
Sorry I missed that. My bad
“Unless you read phred phelps…”
You know i don;t. Your bad
MSNBC had that Armstrong guy on Hardball and he was saying it was perfectly ok for Coulter to say what she did about Edwards- about him having a bumper sticker “ask me about my dead son.” Apparently he thought there really was a sticker. Falling all over himself saying that Ann doesn’t represent the right. Whatever! He tried to say that Coulter and Edwards were of the same mould. I DON’T THINK SO. augh. That’s the right- flipping idiots.
Values boy should hook up with Coulter.
Back after skimming the 183 page PDF of the various opinions in the race as a factor in public school assignment cases.
To GMC: If you have time to read these, I’d be interested in your thoughts on the analysis contained in the various opinions. Mine are that Justice Kennedy’s concurring opinion is best; I am in both agreement and disagreement with the analysis applied in the plurality opinion, for the reasons best stated in Justice Kennedy’s concurrence; Justice Thomas’ concurring opinion seemed to me to primarily be a shot at Justice Breyer’s dissent, and that dissent itself is off the mark in most, if not all areas.
Turning to the Wichita situation, it seems to me that the consent order is crucial here. Reading the plurality opinion, and Kennedy’s concurrence, it is clear to me that if the consent order was based upon the earlier de jure maintenance of a nonunitary school system, then the current decision, in and of itself, does not automatically mean the local busing program is violative of the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. If, however, such order is like the Memorandum executed by Seattle with OCR in the 1990s (if memory serves), then flatly, the busing program is dead in the water.
I base the above “quick and dirty” thought upon the plurality’s recognition that Louisville, although under a deseg order from 1970 or so through 1990, when dissolved by the District Court, was operating a unitary school system when the allegations underlying the current case arose. Seattle had never been found to have operated a mandatory nonunitary, e.g., racially discriminatory, system.
The point made is that basing assignment decisions on racial factors alone where a unitary system exists is unconstitutional, except in the limited case where the prior existence of a de jure nonunitary system had resulted in unlawful discrimination based upon the race of the students, and the current system of assignment was designed to overcome the effects of this specific, legally mandated or authorized discrimination. Thus, the importance of the consent order to USD 259’s situation, IMHO.
Similarly, if the current consideration of racial “goals” (in this case, African-American vs. Caucasian only) in the admission of students to the various magnet programs extant in 259 grows out of the actual content of the consent order, then that policy, as it now exists, is not automatically overturned by today’s decision. If, however, the current policy is designed to adhere, as best the district can, to the requirements of the said order, but the order itself does not on its face apply to magnet programs, then, as stated above, this policy must fail.
Having now exercised my Constitutional Law scholarship, back to the somewhat more mundane but ever so important tasks of the day.
When I grew up in Indiana, people always used to tell me, “it’s hot in Kansas, but it’s a DRY HEAT.”
I’ve lived here for fifteen years, and I’m still waiting for that “dry heat.”
Sheesh . . .
The House is going to vote on a $4,400 pay raise. Guess how Tiahrt will be voting? Despite a huge record of incompetence the Republicans will be more than happy to line their pockets. However, won’t that conflict with their beliefs about minimum wage laws? Tiahrt claimed that if we raise the minimum wage then there will be higher unemployment. So if the Congress gets paid more then will some Representatives have to be laid off? I can think of one. Tiahrt can be sent packing to his old home on the East coast.
lj–
re: “values boy”
Yea, it’s KFG’s nickname. Of course, KFG considers no opinion other than hers acceptable. Apparantly, no paper should be permitted to post opinions contrary to her own.
Suggestion, KFG. Cancel your subscription to the Eagle. Voila – problem solved.
Otherwise, quite whining. Or write your own column.
Well, we’ll see how things turn out after this decision. I’m sure that there will be major problems down the line as with many of their decisions.
“”it’s hot in Kansas, but it’s a DRY HEAT.”"
An oven has dry heat, too.
Again conservatives are turning back the clock. Today SCOTUS basically spit in the face of Brown v the Board of Education
http://kansas.com/news/updates/story/108941.html
Thanks alot!
“An oven has dry heat, too.”
Not all of them…
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-steam-oven.htm
And re: McD’s suit
Posters here have pretty much covered it. Let’s see . . .
1) is it reasonably forseeable that coffee served in moving vehicles may be spilled? Yup.
2) is it reasonably forseeable that coffee served a few degrees below boiling, when spilled, could lead to serious burns? Yup.
(here, her nylon hose fused into her skin, the coffee was so hot. Surgury, scarring, etc. It don’t matter if she was old, or had tender skin, it’s the egg-shelled skull theory – you take your victim as you find him.)
3) Was McD’s aware of the problem? Yup. Testimony was that there had been a number of complaints of burns from coffee, just nothing nearly this serious.
4) Could McD’s have reasonably prevented the problem? Yup – serve coffee at drinkable temperatures (that is the point, isn’t it, to drink it). But cheap coffee is easier to pass off if it’s too hot.
Add to that the arrogance of McD’s in front of the jury and – voila – verdict for plaintiff. BTW – the jury’s award was not pulled out of thin air; it was ONE DAY’S gross coffee sales for McD’s.
Not hard to see how the jury got where it did. And it was upheld, though the award was lowered.
There are outrageous stories in the judicial system, to be sure. But this isn’t one of them.
My favorite: a case in New Jersey, where a plaintiff – a college senior – sued because there was no warning label that if he rolled out of the top of a bunk bed, he could fall. It got to the appeals court (after a jury awarded 6 figures) before a judge threw it out, finding that plaintiff can be reasonably expected to understand gravity without a warning label.http://volokh.com/posts/1159851881.shtml
Good God.
Please post where I said this GMC:
” Of course, KFG considers no opinion other than hers acceptable. Apparantly, no paper should be permitted to post opinions contrary to her own.”
If that is what you got from my posts, you are an even bigger idiot than I first thought. I wonder how you ever got through law school.
They can print values boy all they want. I object to him being on the editorial page when indeed, he is a “republican shill who just works the jesus crowd”.
You say that “no one may disagree with me” shit all the time GMC.
I think it could be said the same about you and your all guns all the time posts.
No one may disagree with your OPINION on guns without a tirade and feeble tongue lashing from you.
Pot meet kettle.
Of course, I rarely respond to GMC. Ya know his fake indian name could be:
He who regularly huffs off the blog.
What a maroon….
“Again conservatives are turning back the clock.”
But, I thought we wanted equal protection under the law.Unless you think equal protection means special treatment. Than it would make sense. Kind of like hate crime laws.
Please post where I said this GMC:
” Of course, KFG considers no opinion other than hers acceptable. Apparantly, no paper should be permitted to post opinions contrary to her own.”
If that is what you got from my posts, you are an even bigger idiot than I first thought. I wonder how you ever got through law school.
They can print values boy all they want. I object to him being on the editorial page when indeed, he is a “republican shill who just works the jesus crowd”.
You say that “no one may disagree with me” shit all the time GMC.
I think it could be said the same about you and your all guns all the time posts.
No one may disagree with your OPINION on guns without a tirade and feeble tongue lashing from you.
Pot meet kettle.
Of course, I rarely respond to GMC. Ya know his fake indian name could be:
He who regularly huffs off the blog.
What a maroon….
I bet if values boy wanted to keep guns out of the hands of nut cases like gmc, he’d QUICKLY be whining about the republican shill who works the jesus crowd.
Ever met a gun control proponent you didnt trash gmc?
Jesus wept.
VT -
I’ve still not read the Morse case; haven’t had the time, I’m afraid. I probably should read these cases; they are important. Perhaps later this evening . . .
“I probably should read these cases; they are important. Perhaps later this evening . . .”
Yeah, he’s WAY too busy blogging during working hours to tend to his legal profession.
And you do know he gets paid on the taxpayer dime while he is blogging?
Sounds like sam brownback. I guess taking taxpayer money and NOT working when being paid really IS a conservative republican value.
Just ask gmc.
Is there a whining noise from the west? Oh, yea, there it is. Jesus is bored to tears again.
Funny that gmc cant do legal reading during the day and blogging at night.
Maybe he only uses his PUBLIC computer to blog? Maybe he cant blog at home?
At any rate, you know where to find him. Right here on the WE blog during working hours.
Mike, I disagree with your statement regarding Brown. I would argue that the plurality opinion tracks squarely with Brown in finding that assignment to schools based purely on race is violative of the Fourteenth Amendment, much as Brown held.
As is set forth in the various opinions, the de facto segregation of schools which may occur due to society’s voluntary segregated housing patterns is not violative of the Constitution, absent state action enforcing the same.
Do I wish this de facto segregation was not occurring? Yes, I do. Is there any action being taken by any government to legally (by statute, regulation or ordinance) cause this segregation? Not to the best of my knowledge.
The only way, IMHO, to overcome the voluntary living choices of the members of the society in a public school setting is to have but one grade school, one middle school, and one high school per district, which all must attend without exception, if the students are to be educated in the public schools. I don’t think that would be palatable to most.
Good post on the McD’s case, GMC. I enjoyed that. Thanks.
I don’t think it’s fair to tell KFGrrl to “quit whining or cancel her subscription to The Eagle.”
That’s the “either – or” fallacy.
I think KFGrrl wants what all of us Libs want and that is, if The Eagle is going to have a voice of the American Taliban on paid staff, can’t we have a left-of-center columnist on staff for balance?
What The Eagle seems content to do is run these fire-breathing right-wingers like Cal Thomas and Values Boy — and Thomas Sowell and Kathleen Parker (Idiot) and that San Antonio guy and that National Review guy etc. etc. — with centrists and moderates like Randy Schoefield, David Broder, and Trudy Rubin.
That’s not “balance.”
Hell, they wouldn’t even run Molly Ivins for the last couple of years because they got so much hate mail from the wing-nuts.
Keep track of the columnists The Eagle runs for the next two weeks. Right-wingers will be totally over-represented by anyone’s definition . . .
I wonder why butler county PAYS a public attorney to promote all guns all the time?
Their county commissioners must have a real agenda there. And it doesnt include a professional county attorney office if gmc’s job is to blog.
Does gmc even HAVE a boss? Or does she agree and support his blogging here?
She must. He clearly isnt sanctioned for wasting the public’s money during working hours.
Welfare state at its finest.
So… what the hell are you voters in butler county going to do about this unsupervised republican nut case pretending to work in the county attorney’s office?
Do you want to re-elect the woman who approves of him doing this instead of the work the taxpayers pay him to do?
Sam brownback anyone?
Also, if The Eagle were running a columnist who argued that basic civil rights should be denied to lawyers, let’s say . . . as in “we should have a Constitutional Amendment protecting marriage by making it impossible for anyone to get married to someone who practices the profession of law,” you might find those “values” a little harder to accomodate.
It’s so easy for Republicans to endure OTHER PEOPLE’S pain, isn’t it?
Typical liberals,
If you can’t debate, try to shut down those you disagree with.
Uh nathan, I think it was gmc who was shutting me down first.
Typical conservative. Dont agree with them? Accuse them of not allowing anyone else’s opinions.
And THEN shut them down.
Pot meet kettle.
Well, if that’s what we’re doing, we’re failing miserably and you people are succeeding marvelously, Nathan.
You’re the ones that shut down Molly Ivins on The Eagle Op-ed page.
Who have we shut down?
Uhh . . . that’d be no one that I know of.
…and so nathan, you think it is ok for a butler county employee to spend his work time blogging?
You think it is just fine for gmc to draw a full paycheck, courtesy of the taxpayers in butler county, while he is doing political shilling here?
I thought political activities using public facilities during working hours was against the law?
I guess not if you are gmc.
You butler county taxpayers are getting ripped off. A highly paid attorney is getting paid to do politics here. During working hours.
What are you going to do about it?
Call sam brownback? Heheheheheheheheheheheheheheh!
Like I said, working part time and drawing a full time taxpayer funded paycheck really IS a conservative republican value….
Back to bringing in others real life again eh KFG? I’m extremely disappointed. Hand me back the “Gold Star” I gave you.
“It’s so easy for Republicans to endure OTHER PEOPLE’S pain, isn’t it?”Posted by: CapnAmerica | June 28, 2007 at 11:45 AM
Are you in pain Capn? Or are you just “feeling it” for another person? :D
KFG,
I don’t know what GMC’s work hours are.
I bet you he spends more time working in a week than you give him credit for.
Being an attorney isn’t a 9-5 job.
They work at all hours of the day preparing for a case and doing research.
As long as he is managing his time to perform his job that is on him.
I think it is pretty cheap for you to sit here and make the characterizations about his work ethic when you don’t really know.
Talking on a blog is not “political activity” either. Unless you really stretch the definition.
Which is what you liberals love to do.
“If you can’t debate, try to shut down those you disagree with.”
That would be called the Equal Time Provision. If you can’t compete, make a law.
Ok. so…
GMC is sitting at a taxpayer funded desk, using a taxpayer funded computer, in a taxpayer funded building on taxpayer funded internet service, during the time his taxpayer funded paycheck says he should be working.
If he is not working, he is still using his computer for political activity. And the last I checked, politicians have been BOOTED from office for doing political personal business using taxpayer funded facilities.
I think those descriptions fit GMC and the Butler County Attorney’s office perfectly. And his activity here is CLEARLY political. Read his posts. You think shilling for the republican gun lobby is NOT political?
It’s just him exercising his free speech? During working hours?
Hell, I got FIRED for doing the same thing.
But of course, being the ada for butler county makes GMC above the law.
If I were a taxpayer in butler county, I’d be more than a little upset at how the county attorney is spending my hard earned tax money.
Promoting all guns al the time.
IF gmc wants to do political work, dont you think he should LEAVE the office and blog from home? Take some comp time if he is working as much as you ASSUME he is?
Or is he just too cheap to have his own computer and internet service at home? He just HAS to use the equipment the taxpayers paid for to shill for all guns all the time?
heheheheh. nathan. The moral authority of the blog. Who approves of theft of time and services from the taxpayer.
I think you should turn in your John Birch card right now…
So when you cant refute the truth, you just whine?
KFG,
Talking on a blog is not illegal political activity unless he is campaigning for a party.
He is not on here advertising for us to vote for a certain party.
He is sharing his opinions, many time legal ones at that.
There is nothing wrong with using his computer at work to do this.
Hell, I got FIRED for doing the same thing.Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | June 28, 2007 at 12:03 PM
Not exactly. You got fired for talking WHILE ON AN EARNED AND SCHEDULED VACATION DAY.
How dare you.
“He is sharing his opinions, many time legal ones at that.”
That didn’t come out right…
sounds like GMC has illegal opinions too (which he darn well may have).
I think you meant he shares his opinions, and some of those opinions involve the law.
When gmc posts anything remotely resembling “fair and balanced” you can say he isnt shilling.
He regularly expounds on how voters and elected officials should vote on gun issues.
Politics involves issues, not just elected positions.
Everytime he advocates more guns and guns all the time, he is advocating a stance on a political issue.
Of course, stretching definitions, twising words, and mincing the minutia to come to an absurd conclusion is nathan’s stock in trade. And gmc’s.
Please raise your hand if you think gmc is NOT doing political activities on public time, on the public dime, using public facilities.
I bet only the gun nuts here support him.
Dear farmgrrl,
The boy doesn’t know who John Birch was. I’m the one that has the John Birch card. I’m almost as ancient as you.
Hank
True enough Tom. And you forget, my board of directors, my employers, approved it.
But of course, how dare I express an opinion, on my own time and at my own expense, if it disagrees with the taliban rulers…
Oh, by the way, my hand is raised.
I think its pretty cheap for a liberal to try to attack a man for posting his opinions on a BLOG.
Aren’t you breaking one of the ‘fisters’ commandments?
Just wondering.
Hank
KFG,
You would have been tortured and executed by now if you were at the mercy of any taliban rulers.
Quick brownlee, open up a new thread on Morrison’s charges of Tiller.
KFG,
Since you seem so intent on going after GMC, put your money where your mouth is. Or should I say legal ability.
What specific law is GMC breaking?
Can you also cite any case law examples of this type of illegal activity being punished or ruled on by the courts?
Imitatio Dei
So..Jesus must have belonged to the NRA, the John Birch Society, the Republican Party, the Moral Majority…he must have been packing concealed. He must have had a pet dinosaur or two. He must have slandered people and groups fairly often. He must have been a rabid supporter of Tiberius, Pilate, and Caiphus. He probably fought in a few wars and tortured some prisoners. And he probably came from Kansas.
That’s what I get from what I read from the holier-than-thou other side.
Hank, please repost where I said this:
“I think its pretty cheap for a liberal to try to attack a man for posting his opinions on a BLOG.”
He can dance the hokey pokey and post his opinions all he wants.
I just want to know why he has to do it during taxpayer funded working hours, on a taxpayer purchased machine, using a taxpayer funded internet service during the time he is supposed to be working at his taxpayer funded job drawing his taxpayer funded paycheck.
He can blog on his own time using his own stuff all he wants.
I object to theft of public service and equipment for political purposes. During working hours.
GMC needs to observe the law before practicing it. And clearly, the duly elected County Attorney for Butler county doesnt CARE what gmc does on his taxpayer funded job.
She obviously doesnt supervise him. Or how he spends his time at work or how he uses public equipment and services.
If I were a voter in Butler county, I’d sure be looking into that abuse of office…
I guess both gmc and his boss are just following the sam brownback playbook for public service.
Work part time and get paid for working full time.
Nice little racket ya got going there…
Most employers whether public or private, wouldn’t condone blogging during work hours. I wonder how many bloggers here blog on their computer at work. I don’t blog during working hours. The only time I blog at work is during lunch.
While I dissagree with a lot of what GMC posts, I find his stuff well written and thought out. I rather like his style as opposed to some of the conservative bomb-throwers and one-line artists.
I’m not a lawyer and dont pretend to be one. Unlike some folks here.
So nathan, you cant use the google?
This is from an AG’s opinion 96-6.
“You also question whether the county policy violates free speech rights. The first amendment to the United States constitution prohibits abridging freedom of speech. An overbroad statute making conduct punishable that is constitutionally protected may be struck down, however, the government may regulate free speech with narrow specificity. City of Wichita v. Huges, 12 Kan.App.2d 621 (1988). In Pickering v. Board of Education, 391 U.S. 563, 568, 88 S.Ct. 1731, 1734, 20 L.Ed.2d 811 (1968), the Court held that the government has an interest in regulating the conduct and “the speech of its employees that differ(s) significantly from those it possesses in connection with regulation of the speech of the citizenry in general.” See also Rosario v. Rockefeller, 410 U.S. 752, 93 S.Ct. 1245, 36 L.Ed.2d 1 (1973); Dunn v. Blumstein, 405 U.S. 330, 336, 92 S.Ct. 995, 999, 31 L.Ed.2d 274 (1972); Bullock v. Carter, 405 U.S. 134, 140-141, 92 S.Ct. 849, 854-855, 31 L.Ed.2d 92 (1972); Jenness v. Fortson, 403 U.S. 431, 91 S.Ct. 1970, 29 L.Ed.2d 554 (1971); Williams v. Rhodes, 393 U.S. 23, 30-31, 89 S.Ct. 5, 10-11, 21 L.Ed.2d 24 (1968).
“Not all public employee speech is protected . . . . Only that speech which both lies within the general protection of the first amendment (e.g., is not obscene) and is ‘upon a matter of public concern’ may be entitled to that particular protection . . . . Public employee speech not on matters of ‘public concern’ simply enjoys no protection against public employer disciplinary action. . . . As to such speech, the state’s interest as public employer in managing its personnel and internal operations is sufficiently weighty that the public employee’s first amendment rights in the speech are no greater than would be those of a private employee.” Berger v. Battaglia, 779 F.2d 992, 998 (4th Cir.1985), cert. denied, 476 U.S. 1159, 106 S.Ct. 2278, 90 L.Ed.2d 720 (1986).
Thus, governmental employers may place some restrictions upon employees speech. See also Waters v. Churchill, 511 U.S. ___, 114 S.Ct. 1878, 128 L.Ed.2d 686 (1994); Connick v. Myers, 461 U.S. at 147, 148, 103 S.Ct. at 1690, 75 L.Ed.2d 708 (1983); Rankin v. McPherson, 483 U.S. 378, 107 S.Ct. 2891, 97 L.Ed.2d 315 (1987); Eberhardt v. O’Malley, 17 F.3d 1023, 1027 (7th Cir.1994).
KFG,
Do you know how many hours GMC works a week?
How on earth do you have the audacity to accuse him of working part time for his money.
You are doing little more than libel.
You are basically a liar.
KFG,
Typical. Post a bunch of things which have no actual relevance to the accusations you make here.
“Most employers whether public or private, wouldn’t condone blogging during work hours.”
My point exactly XXX. And for all the right wing whining about taxpayer dollars being misspent, I find it highly amusing that these same folks think it is ok for gmc to be blogging during taxpayer funded times.
Like I said, if he is all caught up on his work and has comp time available, he can go home to blog. Or to a coffee shop, or somewhere else.
I never said he shouldnt blog. I just object to him doing it on the taxpayer dime. So nice to know that the Butler County Attorney is funding a pro-gun political activist on the public dime.
Like I said, if I were a voter in Butler County, I’d sure have some questions for the county attorney and the county commissioners.
But then, I wouldnt have voted for those tax payer money stealing bozos anyway….
KFG,
Do you know how GMC is paid? I am guessing it is salary.
It is not an hourly job. He probably get paid the same whether he works 80 hours in a week or just 40.
So, what proof do you have to show his blogging is taking away from the amount of work he does?
What part of the law is irrelevant nathan?
Can you show some case law that ALLOWS such activity on the public dime?
I said if he is all caught up on his work and has comp time for all those “hours” he works, he should take his comp time and leave the building and the public computers and blog on his own comp time and computer.
If I were you nathan, I’d observe the first rule of holes here. You are digging your self in really deeply here about political activity on public time.
And regarding libel and slander? Truth is an absolute defense. It is on record here, forever, that he blogs on time he is being paid for out of the taxpayers’ till.
That’s a fact jack!
Guess what?
I blogged on tax payer funded computers, with tax payer funded internet, during “working hours” when I was in Iraq.
I also worked 12-16 hours a day.
You should contact the government at this outrageous abuse of tax payer money!
What a maroon!
“I said if he is all caught up on his work and has comp time for all those “hours” he works, he should take his comp time and leave the building and the public computers and blog on his own comp time and computer.”
If he is in the building and working on public computers he is not on his own time.
And nathan? COMP TIME is how salaried employees take personal time for all those extra hours they put in.
I wonder if GMC is asking for and documenting his “comp time” while blogging during business hours?
Smells like labor law trouble to me if the county attorney doesnt require documentation for her employess taking comp time.
I bet Butler County has a policy about that.
Hey farm girl,
I just said it, I didn’t mean to imply that you said it.
However, when you guys left the WE BLOG in a huff wasn’t one of items in your manifesto to not threaten a man at work?
GMC70, first of all, may or may not be at work. I imagine that as a AG he is on salary. I know several attorneys that are either in the Sedgwick Co AG office or they work for the city. They go to work early, and come home late many days.
You are accusing a man of wrong doing based only on your biased assumptions. You may be right, but even if you are right it would be a coincidence.
Shameful. Really shameful. But only if you have a sense of right and wrong.
Hank
“I blogged on tax payer funded computers, with tax payer funded internet, during “working hours” when I was in Iraq.”
OMG, just keep digging boy!
If you mean “working hours” as 8-5, that means nothing.
I think the real question for you soldier boy is were you blogging during a regularly scheduled duty shift?
Instead of doing your duties?
heheheheh. I think we have a new name for nathan.
Beetle Bailey, the king of screwing off during working hours….
If you were bloggin on your own time, off duty, who cares? Using military computers? I think that is for your superiors to decide.
I wonder how that all plays into the military ban on blogs. Maybe guys like nathan are the reason the military restricts blogging? Using too many computers and bandwidth for play?
Just keep digging nathan. You’ll hit china or leavenworth sooner or later…
I for one ain’t with you on this one, ksfarmgrrl.
Raisin’ hell or tryin’ to with Butler County ain’t gonna get Values Boy thrown off the WE’s OpEd page.
I doubt it’ll even get GMC fired. Really all it accomplishes is it makes you look mean, petty, and small. And I don’t think you’re any of those.
I may not always agree with GMC70, but rarely, and I mean maybe NEVER, have I read anything of his that wouldn’t engender reasonable discourse. Often, in fact, GMC is the very voice of sanity here.
Surely you haven’t forgotten the first rule of holes?
KFG,
You obviously have no idea how things work.
When you are on call for 16 hours a day you use whatever time you can to go do laundry, eat, take care of personal things, blog…
I didn’t have shifts. I worked all hours of the day constantly in Iraq.
When I had a moment to blog, I did.
It is obvious that you are being absurd now.
“However, when you guys left the WE BLOG in a huff wasn’t one of items in your manifesto to not threaten a man at work?”
Please post where that was any part of the boycotters position.
You must have a copy of the “manifesto” if you know it so well.
And I think publicy funded time and equipment is a little different than outing someone at work.
Especially since GMC outed himself from the very beginning with his email addy.
I mean really. He used his BUTLER COUNTY email addy for his political activity here on the blog.
You might want to grab a shovel and join your son hank. That hole isnt getting deep enough fast enough.
I dont hear gmc or anyone in his office refuting my “assumptions”. I’m sure if gmc were blogging off hours, on his own time and equipment, he would have said so.
But the silence is deafening.
And you? YOU assume what he is doing is legal and ethical.
I’ve yet to see you or yours post FACTS regarding that.
Dueling assumptions but mine dont count? Typical conservative republican thinking…
Well, that’s your opinion pedant.
You think it is ok for him to do this while he is at work at his taxpayer funded job?
This has nothing to do with values boy. And the point that gmc is NOT fired for doing this on government time IS the point.
Clearly his bosses approve of it. It’s up to the voters of Butler county to say if THEY approve of this too.
Maybe they should know about it BEFORE the next election?
And how is this different from sam the sham brownback?
I don’t pay taxes in Butler County. I couldn’t care less what he does.
I am also very, very happy with my decision of a year or so ago to never, and I mean NEVER, post here on my work PC.
I’m also pretty freakin’ happy with WE’s “hide your email addy” rule, too.
KFG,
If you notice, I used the word probably many times…
You on the other hand seem to know exactly what hours he works and are making accusations that he is not working full time.
Where is your proof?
It is not our job to come up with evidence to show him innocent.
You say he is not fulfilling his duties or is cheating the tax payers on time.
Where is your proof?
Put up or shut up already.
Care to answer my questions Pedant?
Put up or shut up.
This Marine had a conceal carry permit. “Oh, the chaos!”Suck it, anti-gun nuts.
“A retired United States Marine disrupted a robbery in progress when he shot two men who attempted to rob a Subway sandwich shop, fatally wounding one of them, police said.”
Nathan, it’s pretty obvious what he is doing. But you like to argue about the meaning of the word is, so I’m hardly surprised that you want to mince words here.
If gmc is posting off company time and off public computers he should say so.
(crickets chirping)
Now, now, farm girl,
You’re getting a little shrill. I didn’t say anything based on an assumption. I did not assume that GMC70 was legal, ethical or even moral. I merely raised the possibility that you were full of crap.
Because you have no proof that GMC70 is in any way violating any laws, ethics rules or even violating current Butler Co. AG office policy I pointed out your personal attack was based on a biased assumption.
You’re better than that.
Hank
KFG,
Where is your evidence that GMC is not fulfilling his duties because he is blogging?
What do you want me to put up? He’s blogging during the office hours of the Butler County Attorney’s office.
If he is off using comp time or vacation time, he should say so. I think his silence here is telling.
If he works a different shift? He should say so. If he not using public computers? He should say so.
It isnt a big leap that if he is blogging during office hours he is using an office computer.
I’ve worked “on salary” too. In public employement, it is still usual and customary to DOCUMENT your comp time, both earned and used.
You have a lot to learn about the real world nathan.
KFG,
It is obvious. He has some free time here and there and he blogs.
Big deal?
What law is he breaking?
“If gmc is posting off company time and off public computers he should say so.”
Who cares? He doesn’t have to do any such thing. Mind your own.
I already told you what lawS I think he is breaking.
Are you unable to read as well as unable to tell time?
Like a damn bull dog on a ham bone…
“I’m sure if gmc were blogging off hours, on his own time and equipment, he would have said so.”
Really? Really! You’re sure! You continue to display you’re ignorant bias.
He might just be back at ‘work’.!
Hank
OK all… thanks for the further explanations of the McD’s coffee spill… I can understand the argument that the jury must have been thinking, that McD’s was not responsible for the spill, but for the severity of damages after it did spill…
Their decision on the Coffee case, is a bit similar to the Dram Shop laws, regarding the serving of alcoholic beverages to those who might appear to be already intoxicated… I had to learn that one when I did substitute bartending in Grad. School… It isnt SELLING the booze that is illegal, it is knowing a conseuence of what can happen when an intoxicated person further intoxicates themselves…
I’m on my own time fleetie. Using my own computer and internet service in my own home.
And you?
He’s a public servant fleetie. You demand accountablility from democrats, why not from gmc?
Pot meet kettle.
What he is doing violates every principle of public employment.
If any other public employee were doing it, they would have to be held accountable.
But then, we already know what the cons here think of the rule of law.
This is just a great example.
KFG,
You threw up a bunch of stuff which didn’t show any law he was breaking.
Typical…
KFG,
What “rule of law” are you talking about?
KFG — :-) take a big deep breath… I tend to agree with you, so far as you state the case… Suppose(just suppose) GMC is working on company time, as you suggest… BUT… suppose(just suppose) that he is using his OWN laptop for the BLOG time he uses…
I normally work out of my own home office, when I am on the field… And that means that my WORK pages, and the Blog page, is on the same computer… It is fairly easy to switch back and forth between the pages… Just as it would be if GMC is using his own laptop for his personal use, and an office computer for ADA work…
If that is indeed the case, then I guess I dont have nearly as much of a problem with it, as if he is using the ADA computer to do his own Blogging(political work, etc.)
Opinion??
Did you read the statutes referenced in the KANSAS ATTORNEY GENERAL’s OPINION?
But since YOU declare it irrelevant, it is?
hehehehehehehehehehehehe……
“You demand accountablility from democrats, why not from gmc?”
I demand accountability from people I am in charge of. I’m not in charge of gmc. I think you are drunk.What happened to leaving people alone?
I hope that was intended for nathan??
“I normally work out of my own home office, when I am on the field…”
Big difference between you Chas, and gmc.
Are you in a taxpayer funded job? Does your employer approve of what you do? Are you self employed? What is your company policy on this?
Does gmc’s employer approve of this? Do the Butler county commissioners approve of this?
Most of the counties and cities I know have POLICY that forbids personal use of the internet on public equipment during working hours. I dont know if Butler county has a policy on that.
But you can bet your sweet ass if this was some low level secretary blogging on the taxpayer’s dime, they’d be reprimanded at a minimum.
I guess his lofty position makes him above the law and county policy? Or Butler county has no such policy?
If THAT’s the case, I would damn sure want to know what’s going on with the county employees if I paid taxes in Butler county.
“I demand accountability from people I am in charge of”
OMG fleetie, you need to button up ’cause your hypocrisy is showing.
You arent in charge of any democrats yet you constantly feel free to question their accountability.
This is gettng funnier and funnier watching you guys spin and defy your own positions to defend gmc.
Funny stuff.
KFG,
Perhaps you see something I don’t in that mess you posted. So please, from this mess you posted, highlight where it outlines blogging as a public employee at work is against the law in butler county:
“This is from an AG’s opinion 96-6.
“You also question whether the county policy violates free speech rights. The first amendment to the United States constitution prohibits abridging freedom of speech. An overbroad statute making conduct punishable that is constitutionally protected may be struck down, however, the government may regulate free speech with narrow specificity. City of Wichita v. Huges, 12 Kan.App.2d 621 (1988). In Pickering v. Board of Education, 391 U.S. 563, 568, 88 S.Ct. 1731, 1734, 20 L.Ed.2d 811 (1968), the Court held that the government has an interest in regulating the conduct and “the speech of its employees that differ(s) significantly from those it possesses in connection with regulation of the speech of the citizenry in general.” See also Rosario v. Rockefeller, 410 U.S. 752, 93 S.Ct. 1245, 36 L.Ed.2d 1 (1973); Dunn v. Blumstein, 405 U.S. 330, 336, 92 S.Ct. 995, 999, 31 L.Ed.2d 274 (1972); Bullock v. Carter, 405 U.S. 134, 140-141, 92 S.Ct. 849, 854-855, 31 L.Ed.2d 92 (1972); Jenness v. Fortson, 403 U.S. 431, 91 S.Ct. 1970, 29 L.Ed.2d 554 (1971); Williams v. Rhodes, 393 U.S. 23, 30-31, 89 S.Ct. 5, 10-11, 21 L.Ed.2d 24 (1968).
“Not all public employee speech is protected . . . . Only that speech which both lies within the general protection of the first amendment (e.g., is not obscene) and is ‘upon a matter of public concern’ may be entitled to that particular protection . . . . Public employee speech not on matters of ‘public concern’ simply enjoys no protection against public employer disciplinary action. . . . As to such speech, the state’s interest as public employer in managing its personnel and internal operations is sufficiently weighty that the public employee’s first amendment rights in the speech are no greater than would be those of a private employee.” Berger v. Battaglia, 779 F.2d 992, 998 (4th Cir.1985), cert. denied, 476 U.S. 1159, 106 S.Ct. 2278, 90 L.Ed.2d 720 (1986).
Thus, governmental employers may place some restrictions upon employees speech. See also Waters v. Churchill, 511 U.S. ___, 114 S.Ct. 1878, 128 L.Ed.2d 686 (1994); Connick v. Myers, 461 U.S. at 147, 148, 103 S.Ct. at 1690, 75 L.Ed.2d 708 (1983); Rankin v. McPherson, 483 U.S. 378, 107 S.Ct. 2891, 97 L.Ed.2d 315 (1987); Eberhardt v. O’Malley, 17 F.3d 1023, 1027 (7th Cir.1994). “
“…if I paid taxes in Butler county.”
You just stepped in it. You don’t. Mind your own. Who’s the biggest shrieker about “stay out of my business”?
Answer: the irritating hehehehehe girl
“You arent in charge of any democrats yet you constantly feel free to question their accountability.”
You’re drunk and high and off-balance. How ’bout civil unions for the mentally ill?
No, I dont get paid with tax payer funds… I do get paid with Parish funds… I am kind of sort of self employed, depending on which IRS person you ask… Although I file as self employed…
I know in bigger parishes, or denominational offices, personal internet use on office machines is generally not done… However, if the person working in the office has their own laptop, or on lunch break, etc., then nobody gets terribly upset… I know of a few denominational office folks who have been given strong verbal and written warnings to NOT use office machines for personal email, web surfing, or games, etc.
As I said, I do understand your point…
Nathan, IF the County personnel manual says “no use of internet in office for personal use,” then THAT would be the rule of Law for any County office…
Suppose you worked in a County Office… Your task that day is to send out a County-wide circular in email, to all those owing property tax on vehicles that are delinquent… When your supervisor strolls past your desk, you are playing, oh say, Solitaire on your office computer that is connected to an online game program, like, say, Pogo…
You can bet you will be at the least reprimanded… and if it has happened before, you might be given a written warning as well…
I believe that would be “rule of Law”
Hehehehe. Nice try to defend the indefensible. I dont drink fleetie.
Nathan, I already did your research for you. If you are too lazy to read the statutes, I’m not going to do it for you.
You wanted to know which laws he was breaking. I told you.
Oh and fleetie, the blog’s dumbest poster? Whining about shrill? heheheheheheheheheheheheh.
Still no argument with the substance. Just whining about me. Just what I expect from the party of personal responsibility. GMC is doing personal political blogging on company time and you want to attack me?
I think that just about says it all for how plastic your ideas of right and wrong really are.
So much for you not liking moral relativity.
And fleetie, I havent contacted the butler county attorney or commission. But if some taxpayer over there do, it will be my fault for pointing out the obvious?
hee hee hee hee hee hee! Yep. Kill the messenger and deny the wrongdoing.
You dont pay taxes in mass either fleetie but you feel perfectly free to complain about Ted Kennedy.
You dont pay taxes in CA either, but you feel just fine complaining about Pelosi.
And for all your whining about Harry Reid, how many tax dollars do you send to Nevada?
But hey, you are all about contradictions and inconsistancy fleetie. Your doing very well at it here.
Pot meet kettle…
“You dont pay taxes in mass either fleetie but you feel perfectly free to complain about Ted Kennedy.”
Apples meet oranges.kfg = desparate
Oh, and since germie pays how much in california taxes?
I’ll expect you, fleetie, to pounce on her when she whines about Boxer again.
Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
Talk about some low down selfish ass parents! These people are CRIMINAL and should be charged and jailed!
“A 12-year-old Garden City boy was killed late Wednesday night when his mother swerved to avoid a deer and crashed on U.S. 400 near Dodge City.
Angelica Morales was driving west on U.S. 400 about nine miles east of Dodge City just before 11:30 p.m. when she swerved to miss a deer and went into the ditch on the north side of the road. The SUV rolled onto its top and her son, Hector Morales, was partially ejected. He was taken to Western Plains Regional Medical Center in Dodge City, where he was pronounced dead.
Neither Angelica Morales, 32, nor her husband, 33-year-old Lorenzo Delgado, were injured in the crash, authorities reported. They were wearing seatbelts, but Hector was not.”
I think she got ya on Nev. and Mass. fleet… I think she got you on the Butler Cty. issue too!!
I dont pay taxes in butler county so I cant comment on butler county elected officials or employees?
You dont pay taxes in Mass so I guess that means you cant comment on Mass elected officials and employess.
You dont see the similarity?
That is why you are the blog’s dumbest poster…
Sorry, I gotta part company with you on this one, KFGrrl.
People do get breaks, even on the taxpayer’s dime.
While they’re on breaks, they can surf the internet, read the newspaper, flirt with their girl-boyfriend on the telephone, etc.
Complaining about GMC spending too much time on the WEBlog could be taken as a threat–as in somebody should report you for it etc.
I don’t think we want go that route.
That’s what THEY do.
Aren’t County attorney’s offices funded by state taxes. If so, the GMC question has a wider relevance than just being a Butler Co. issue. I assumed that since he did not try to conceal where he worked that what he was doing was okay. But some people are smart enough to adhere to the “hide it in plain sight” rule.
I don’t often agree with GMC, but he is the ONLY conservative poster here willing to state the obvious – like Cheney claiming to not be part of the executive branch is ridiculous.
To another subject (scandal):The Bush White House is claiming executive privilege to not release congress subpeonaed records pertinent to the US attorney firings. Anyone else wonder if they might have to make this claim pretty frequently in the next few months. And, isn’t it convenient that they have Alito and Roberts to help them at such critical times?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070628/pl_nm/usa_prosecutors_bush_dc_3;_ylt=AmnFet7GY5JOoQVpXrNs.0FlM3wV
Obviously, a lunch break, or other break time would not apply to the “hours” issue… But it might still apply to the use of Office Machines for personal use matter… In fact, I think it would… unless they are using their own laptops on breaks…
Hey Kev… not to mention Thomas and Scalia…
Ooops Steven, not Kev…
Ksfarmgrrl-
Apples and oranges. Butler county prosecutor takes care of things in Buter County. Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy, etc, takes care of things on a national scale. Big difference, but Steven Davis may or may not have a point, i don’t know.
Whether or not somebody is posting too much at work is a matter between that person, their boss, and employee handbook/regulations/policies.
It’s not something other posters have the background to know.
If every post from work is going to be seen as “stealing from the till” then nobody will ever be able to post from work.
Going to kinda dry up the give and take around here . . .
“While they’re on breaks, they can surf the internet, read the newspaper, flirt with their girl-boyfriend on the telephone, etc.”
True enough capn, but take a look at GMC’s posts and their times. You still think he is just posting on “breaks”?
I wish I had a taxpayer funded job that gave me that amount of break time.
I see no threat in discussing the issue of political activity on public time and public equipment. Especially since GMC outed himself using his BUTLER COUNTY EMAIL ADDY.
If he isnt doing anything wrong and his boss approves, he has nothing to fear from me.
And I STILL wish I got that much taxpayer funded break time to do political blogging.
On a county machine.
“Whether or not somebody is posting too much at work is a matter between that person, their boss, and employee handbook/regulations/policies.”
Yep.
And I am calling out the Butler County Attorney and the Butler County Commissioners and wondering if they approve.
I bet the voters there would like to know as well.
Feeling a little guilty about posting capn? :)
You touched on an interesting point, KFGrrl.
If someone is listening to baseball in their office instead of working, nobody really knows.
But with blogging, the proof is public.
Talking on the office phone is protected speech but e-mailing using the computer is the property of the company that owns it.
Computer use can be tracked, so it’s a lot riskier. If your boss is determined to nail you, he-she could probably do it.
Puts me between a rock and a hard place… I agree with both of you KFG and CapN… Most likely because of the kind of office I have being different from a State or County office… BTW, I always thought that the County paid the salaries for County employees… The County attorneys are elected at the County level, NOT the state level…
Well, if the truth be told, KFGrrl, I have posted from work.
I am not at work today.
But then I have an unusual job that allows me to do a lot of work from home without direct supervision.
I don’t really have a boss in the traditional sense.
So, yes, you’re right. I probably DO blog too much, just like some people golf too much.
But keeping score of who blogs how much from where is going to have a chilling effect on this Blog, IMHO.
Dear dope:
What Butler county does does not affect me. Not so with the others. I don’t care what Salina or El Dorado do. I don’t care waht New York does, but I do care about what her Senators do.
And with that, I’m going to try to mow my wet, wet grass.
Let’s see how that goes.
Do you HAVE to make your posts so blasted personal Fleet?? Cant reasonable people disagree without resorting to name calling, and puns?? Its a lot more fun without the personal jabs!!
Dear chas:
????
Chas–
That’s why we call him BDP Fleetwood: “Blog’s Dumbest Poster.”
He’s like the village idiot. After a while, you just take him for granted like litter or bird droppings.
“Talking on the office phone is protected speech”
With all due respect capn, personal telephone conversations are not protected speech at work. I know for a fact that the State of Texas will FIRE people for too many personal phone conversations.
They track them with caller ID.
Now, if you are saying telephone speech is secretive and harder to track than personal computer speech, that’s true.
But the State of Kansas also has very specific laws and policies about personal phone calls, as do most private sector companies large enough to have personnel policies.
So no, if GMC were spending the same amount of time on personal calls at work on work phones as he does personal blogging at work on work computers, he’d be in the same jeopardy.
Most places let personal calls and some personal internet usage go if it isnt excessive and no one complains. But that doesnt mean it isnt in violation of policy, or for public employees, law.
I guess if selective enforcement were construed as approval, scooter really wouldnt have to go to jail for perjury.
GMC may be getting away with it in the public sector due to selective enforcement. Which is why I wonder if the voters there know about it.
Or care. Maybe they dont mind paying their county employees to do that.
“And I am calling out the Butler County Attorney and the Butler County Commissioners and wondering if they approve.”
Thank heavens the people in Butler County have you looking out for them.
Now exactly how much of this crap can you testify in court on as fact?
When you go after someone for their political views in such a vengeful and shrill way surely you actually have something other than you demented, biased, hateful innuendos.
So far, from your posts you don’t.
Pitiful. a little bored on the farm today I guess.
Hank
“Now exactly how much of this crap can you testify in court on as fact?”
OMG, TOO funny.
I dont have to testify in court to a goddamn thing hank.
The facts are all right here on the WE blog. Forever.
We’ll see if anyone in Butler County cares. Maybe they dont. And if they dont?
Note to self: When seeking a cushy job outside common scrutiny, look in Butler county.
Dear girl,
You are making some pretty serious charges, based on what? Of course you don’t have to testify in court to a goddam thing. I was merely pointing out that before you accuse someone of such serious offenses and threaten his job you should be sure of your facts.
You have no facts. Pitiful. Just the pitiful bitter rant of an old lady.
Hank
I think the farmgirl lives off us hard working taxpayers. She can’t have a job, she’s on the blog all day long.
Hank, the facts are right here. Forever. If you are too lazy to look up GMCs posts and times, dont blame it on me. Once again, I am not reporting gmc to anyone.
And for all of you who think this is much ado about nothing, you might be interested to note that INC magazine estimates employee theft of time by ALL employees, both public and private, costs us all over $500 million a year.
Those are costs that are passed on to you as consumers. And taxpayers.
Oh but yeah, please feel free to salve your moral centers by telling yourself a little internet surfing or bloggin on company time is harmless.
Then say that again when you pay your taxes. A little employee supervision could go a long way toward keeping more money in YOUR pocket.
http://www.inc.com/news/articles/200608/time.html
I work for a major wireless company and my company has very specific policies about it. You may not use company email for anything other than company business. You may use your company computer to serf the web but not during the course of your work hours. (in other words you have to complete your assigned tasks). You may be monitored. You may not use your company email address in any blog nor shall you present yourself as a represenative of the company when posting to a blog- like saying something like “Cingular does really have the the fewest dropped calls” and signing it with my name and “Field Engineer”. That is a big no no. Other than that, they are pretty loose about it. At my job, I am given a number of task to complete daily and, as long as my work is completed, they don’t care too much what else I do during the day. As a personal matter, I think it is not proper for employees to do personal business during the work day except for their lunch hours so I do not blog during my working hours (note that I am of today because I am working this weekend). That includes use of my personal cell phone. While I do carry it, my family are instructed to only call me if it urgent or an emergency.
heheheh. I’m self employed. If I’m not working, I dont get paid.
And you?
heheheh. I’m self employed. If I’m not working, I dont get paid.
And you?
Kev, your “other than that” they dont mind statement seems to fly in the face of the policy you posted. They seem to have a policy that is VERY strict.
Then it is selectively enforced.
That doesnt make it right, and you are to be commended for not doing personal biz on company time.
But the other than that statement reminds me of the old joke:
“Other than THAT Mrs. Lincoln, how’d you like the play?”
“That doesnt make it right, and you are to be commended for not doing personal biz on company time.”
What happened to “stay out of my womb, stay out of my bedroom, leave me alone”
You don’t have many friends.
Kev – good observations. My company is similar; get my job done and they will cut me some slack.
Turning it around, I use my personal cell phone for company business. So, are they cheating me? Obviously NOT!
My family usually contacts me by IM or email (they have my office address); that is less disruptive than the phone since I can leave it until a break.
“What happened to “stay out of my womb, stay out of my bedroom, leave me alone”
What in the wide wide world of sports does THAT have to do with public employee theft of time and services?
Oh, and fleetie?
Are you posting on company time and company machine?
“THAT have to do with public employee theft of time and services?”
He’s not your public employee.
“Are you posting on company time and company machine?”
It’s my time (I’m commissioned)the machine is the companies.The Union of Me says it’s OK.I wrote it into my own contract.
“Vaughn or any other lawyer-type that reads this….can you please respond.
Does the Supreme Court ruling make it illegal for Wichita to continue to bus students? That’s kind of my impression of the ruling…”
I am not a lawyer but I play one on the internet- and I did attend law school for a year. As far as I can guess Wichita’s bussing policy is not based upon race itself but upon the neighbourhood where you live. Although the effect is the same, when I was a student there, the Wichita school board just basically drew lines around certain neighbourhoods and declared “ALL students within this area will be assigned to XXX school”. Presumeably students of ANY race in that area would be bussed whether white or black. This would probably pass legally as it is race neutral. The cases in question were where school boards made school assignments based upon the race of the student and not the student’s residence as Wichita does. That is the big difference.
Please post where I said he’s my public employee.
And I think your comments about posting on company time and machine just about say it all.
In fact, even Chas is only conflicted because of his personal situation. I’m starting to see the light here on the opposition to what I’m posting.
You do it. You think everyone does it. The company gets enough out of you. So therefor, it isnt really theft of time or services, it’s just a little thing. No big deal. If everyone does it it must not be bad. I am not bad.
Yes siree, I see the pattern here.
And I think the Inc. Mag article pretty much debunks the idea that theft of time and services is no big deal. Just several million dollars in consumer costs….
musta struck a lot of nerves here…
Yes KFG,
You struck the nerve that we can’t believe you are being so insidious.
Kev, your comments on the busing policy in USD 259 are well taken as to those students (African-American, primarily) living in the AAA (Assigned Attendance Area). As I understand the policy, the assignment of attendance to various buildings throughout the district is not based upon the neighborhood in which they live as you set out. Rather, they are transported to a variety of buildings, in order to meet the consent order requirements. Thus, it is my understanding that, e.g., one student in the AAA may be bused to Northwest, while another student living a few houses down, might be bused to Southeast.
There are the Caucasian students who do not live in the AAA who are selected, by birth date, to be bused for one school year to various buildings, again to meet the terms of the consent order. I believe that at present, there are two elementary schools (as this is all the lottery applies to) who receive bused Caucasian students.
Remember, the 259 busing plan for deseg purposes applies only to African-American and Caucasian students, by virtue of the consent order. So, Kev, in that regard, the busing policy is most definitely based upon race.
Also, as I posted at least once upthread, this decision will certainly have an effect upon the Magnet School programs, as the lottery system applied to the applications to my understanding does use race as a factor for admissions. I believe this is also a Caucasian/African-American thing only. Again, I do not know what the effect is of the consent order on this, but believe that the racial factor in Magnet School admissions is used to achieve the racial balance called for in said order, which again is limited to Caucasians and African-Americans by its terms.
Let me make it clear here… IF I had a secretary working for me, on conmpany time, and she was sitting around blogging, IMing, or emailing all day, She would be warned once verbally, once in writing, and then dismissed…
Nathan, you are so funny. Even when you dont mean to be.
Here’s the definition:
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) – Cite This Sourcein·sid·i·ous /?n?s?di?s/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-sid-ee-uhs] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation–adjective 1. intended to entrap or beguile: an insidious plan.2. stealthily treacherous or deceitful: an insidious enemy.3. operating or proceeding in an inconspicuous or seemingly harmless way but actually with grave effect: an insidious disease.
Hee hee hee hee.
Now just WHAT part of my posts fit those definitions. I’m not being sneaky. I am saying what I am saying up front.
And if I am such a nut case and my posts are without merit, the ravings of a bitter old woman as your pa says…
…then where is the “grave conseqence. I mean, if I am such a raving nut case, and gmc, Mr. Law and Order himself is innocent and pure as the driven snow…
Then he CERTAINLY has nothing to worry about from little ol me.
Or maybe what I’m saying is true and you just dont like it?
That is STILL not “insidious”.
But we are amused nathan, and we do encourage you to try again…
That’s what I thought Chas.
I’m not picking on you, but your posts perfectly illustrate that there is one standard for employee theft for lower level employees and another one for “executive” employees.
I wonder if Hank had an employee who blogs as much during working hours as gmc, if he would be so generous. I am sure he SAYS he would be.
But I wonder how quickly he and his mrs. would be out of biz if their employees were like gmc?
You got me, you sneaky old lady you…
Hey Farmgrrl,
Check your voicemail.
Thanks!
KFG,
My Dad is the “employee” and yes he does blog from work…
Once again, you assume GMC is not a hard worker.
From his postings, I would argue that any business would greatly benifit by having him as an employee.
Do you have reason to think otherwise?
Do you have any proof of him not doing his job well?
Or is this you still continuing to make assertions about his work without any proof?
Put up or shut up.
I will concede that I was wrong on the state oversight of District attorneys. These job openings ask you to apply to the county:
http://www.kcdaa.org/jobs.php
KFG — I would feel the same way if it was an executive, as if it was a secretary… Execs are mostly an over paid lot to start with, and then to use company time for personal flirtations or internet use… not excusable!!
Nathan, I swear, You can even make personnel matters into a Right/Left issue… Unbelievable!!
Nathan, do you even USE your left hand for anything?? I mean, I dont really see this matter of what happens or doesnt happen on office puters, phones, etc. as a Right, or Left issue… But your posts on it sound as if you are doing just that. HELP!!!
“After a while, you just take him for granted like litter or bird droppings.”
Now that is being pretty disrespectful of bird shit, if you ask me.
“Once again, you assume GMC is not a hard worker.”
Please post where I assumed that.
YOU are assuming not me. I’m going off the facts, as evidenced by the eternal log of the WE blog.
And you?
Chas,
Where have I made this a Right/Left issue?
All my comments have been about how absurd KFG is being.
Ok Tom, I’ll check my voice mail. It isnt my day to answer the phone or check voice mail (that would be june 31 :)
But just for you dear…. heheheheehh!
“My Dad is the ‘employee’ and yes he does blog from work…”
Please! And you know why I am saying that.
KFG,
“Facts” That he posts on the blog occasionally?
LOL
Oh yes, that is proof of what?
Sigh, you are getting more abusrd.
Wow kfg is still ranting about GMC.
As far as I know GMC has never done anything to you kfg, why are you being a total ass about this?
All these posts need to be removed imo. If you have something against the man, get a pair and call his boss.
Otherwise cool it, it’s making you look petty and vindictive, to say the least.
Nathan, it’s like this — All of you Reich Wingers are going after KFG, because she has a concern about public policy… And we all know KFG is not a Reich Winger…. That simple enough??
Chas,
You say I am making the a Right/Left issue while calling me a “Reich Winger?”
Go crawl in a hole and stop breathing…
That simple enough?
On the flip side of this coin, NOW you all know why I dont tell in the Blog WHERE I work… only what I do… Apparently GMC posted(accidentally or otherwise) his WORK email address…
Sounds to me, Chas., that you are the only one bringing party lines up with “Reich Winger” labels. Nice goin fella
Hey, we are who we are… Reich Wingers or Lefties… But this item is not in either category… SOME things arent…
Good God. I check back to see if anything interesting, and . . . this.
I didn’t think I was all that important. Frankly, I’m not.
KFG – what are you on today? How is my work arrangement, whatever it may be, 1) relevant to any issues under discussion, and 2) any of your damn business?
Don’t bother to answer; the questions are rhetorical, and I will not enter this pissing contest with you. I’ll instead talk to folks over substance, if at all.
I’m not gonna bother to answer any of this crap. I don’t attack on petty, unrelated crap, and I won’t answer others who do. To many of the rest of you, thanks for the kind words and all, but drop it. If KFG wants to continue to rant, let her.
So why did you even bring it up?
1. Change the subject from “is it appropriate to blog from government computers on government time” to “Farmgrrl is picking on GMC!”
2. Stuff the strawman with blatant censorship: “Delete Farmgrrl’s posts!!”
3. Attack: “You’re petty! You’re vindictive! You’re an ass! You’re a coward!”
“…because she has a concern about public policy”
Hogwash. Somehow gmc got to her or made her mad.
Very well GMC.
Go crawl in a hole and stop breathing…Posted by: Nathan | June 28, 2007 at 03:39 PM
Nathan,
Farmgrrl’s attack on you this morning was really cheap and unwarranted (which I posted at the time), but this one by YOU! Wishing another poster would die.
That’s shameful and disgusting.
Hey, I just read that Tiller has 19 misdemeanor charges filed against him… The original 30 were thrown out, because they were considered a “political agenda.”
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/06/open-thread-628.html#comment-74299234
Nathan, you are what you are… I am what I am… And for that you want me to stop breathing?? You been reading mAnn Coulter WAY too much…
I have watched this post all day. It has been pretty pathetic. Tis true, Ksfarmgrrl is constantly on the lookout for people butting into her business, but she spend this entire blog on something that is clearly NOT her business. Instead, she hopes to raise the knowledge of GMC’s post to the Butler County attorney, or to the county public at large. What she really wants is GMC to be disciplined. I dare say this would not be the case if GMC was in agreement with her. In fact, after her ranting about 500 million stolen by employers doing off task things, WSCLARK admits do blogging on non personal time or hardware. Not a flick from ksfarmgrrl. This is nothing more than a personal attack on GMC because they are in disagreement and for some reason it ticked her off. I am sorry she lost her job because she spoke about being gay on her own time. I am sorry she lost her job because she was gay. She needs to cool off a little. I think.
L J — at least KFG didnt suggest that GMC crawl into a hole and stop breathing, or vice versa… LOL… Now, I suppose I better go look for a big enough hole, so Nathan will be happy!!
Yeah, that was not realy adult like either.
“Don’t bother to answer; the questions are rhetorical, and I will not enter this pissing contest with you.”
OMG, I am HOWLING with laughter now.
HE wants a pissing match with me, as solly pointed out in his link, and repuke wonders why I responded, what gmc “did to me”?
heheheheheheheheh.
You got caught gmc. Your own tracks here prove it. So if your boss doesnt care and the county commissioners in Butler county dont care and the voters dont care…
I guess it’s no big deal.
I dont give a rat’s ass what Butler county’s personnel policy is or isnt.
I do care if you post your attacks on me in violation of county policy.
I mean, since you are sworn to uphold the law and all…
“WSCLARK admits do blogging on non personal time or hardware”
Say what?
I am retired, at home and posting from my personal computer.
Christ.
Leave me out of this one.
“On the flip side of this coin, NOW you all know why I dont tell in the Blog WHERE I work….”Posted by: Chas. | June 28, 2007 at 03:40 PM
AMEN BROTHER!!!
This is a perfect example of why it’s a good idea to stay anonymous online.
It was my one insult quota for the month.
Obviously I don’t want anyone to die.
So go jump off a bridge Chas.
WSClark-i apoligize if I had the wrong poster, or misquoted you. My bad. I will try and find what i was referencing. My apologies
I think you’re digging a hole here, FrmGrrl.
It looks very much like you’re trying to shut people up by keeping track of how much they post so you can use it to threaten them by informing on them to their boss.
Time spent by employees for what purpose is none of your or my affair.
I’m the kind of liberal that thinks people should be left alone if they’re not hurting anybody.
Shaming and threatening people into silence is our bag, man.
Because you’re self-employed you get to blog whenever, wherever, but you threaten the working-stiffs for doing what you can do.
Doesn’t look good on its face.
You don’t know what kind of work GMC is doing. Maybe he works 12 hour days and takes work home with him. Posting from work may be slacking off, may not be.
Unless you’re him, you don’t know.
I would hope that people who have been discriminated against for their “lifestyle” could show some tolerance for others.
lj, please repost where clark said that. I must have missed it. He is retired, so I doubt he is posting on “non personal” time.
And, I see no one disputing the facts here. Just whining about mean ol farmgrrrl “attacking” gmc.
Give me a break!
If you can dispute the facts, do so. Otherwise, they stand.
And GMC just for the record, where WERE you posting from at 11:10 this morning? On what machine?
lj–
re: “values boy”
Yea, it’s KFG’s nickname. Of course, KFG considers no opinion other than hers acceptable. Apparantly, no paper should be permitted to post opinions contrary to her own.
Suggestion, KFG. Cancel your subscription to the Eagle. Voila – problem solved.
Otherwise, quite whining. Or write your own column.
Posted by: GMC70 | June 28, 2007 at 11:10 AM
Shaming and threatening people into silence is NOT our bag, man.
Obviously . . .
This was the post.
“Well, if the truth be told, KFGrrl, I have posted from work.”
It was from CapnAmerica. Again, my apologies.
Same end, Nathan… I can no longer swim… I loved swimming…But at least the bridge isnt far… only a couple of blocks…
No harm, no foul, LJ.
I don’t want in on this either, but I can’t help but take exception when GMC70 says
“…I don’t attack on petty, unrelated crap, …”
I guess he only attacks on petty, related crap
Oh and lj?
When I start commenting on GMC’s PRIVATE life, and what he does in his bedroom, and his relationship or nonrelationship with his wife, you have a point.
But then, that is not what I’m doing is it. False comparison. But nice try.
GMC is a PUBLIC FIGURE. By any definition. He works for the public. On tax money.
And, judging by the record of posts here, he likely does personal and political blogging on company time using company equipment.
I dont see the personal attack in that. I see that as pointing out a fact.
Have you researched the date and time stamps on his posts? HE posted his butler county email addy multiple times.
Kinda like he was proud of it and it gave him some implied gravitas?
Right.
Dispute the facts or keep up your personal attacks on me. Continue to say theft of time and services by employees are no big deal. I dont care.
But let’s see ya do it with a straight face.
No problem on the mistaken identity lj.
But did you miss the post where I called the captain out that caused him to post that admission? Check the posts above that one.
I’ll be waiting for your apology on that one too.
Please post where I have “shamed or threatened” gmc into silence.
I have neither shamed him, since he insists he does nothing wrong, nor have I threatened him. Again, I’m not reporting him to anyone.
He’s so damn innocent how COULD anyone be a threat to him?
okay you have pointed out a fact. over and over again. He dissed you. Maybe over and over again. You want him disciplined or fired.I get it. You are right, he is a public figure. You have all the facts correctly. I cannot disagree with that. What I disagree with is that you are doing this in the interest of the public.
KFG — Jesus hasnt wept nearly enough today… :-)
Well, KFGrrl.
I know some half a dozen posters here personally, and we virtually ALL post from work on company computers from time to time.
Even if we had our own laptops, we’d still be using company band-width.
So unless you want the discussion from 8-5 everyday to be you and a couple of retirees, I’d cool it with the “posting from work is theft” meme.
“I would hope that people who have been discriminated against for their “lifestyle” could show some tolerance for others.”
captain, that is nuts. Tolerance? For a policy breaker and possibly a law breaker?
I dont think I’ve broken any laws with my “lifestyle”.
And now I’m a mean ol’ capitalist trying to keep down a working stiff like gmc?
Man, that’s a good one.
I think you have empathy for gmc for obvious reasons.
No problem on the mistaken identity lj.
But did you miss the post where I called the captain out that caused him to post that admission? Check the posts above that one.
I’ll be waiting for your apology on that one too.
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | June 28, 2007 at 04:15 PM
Umm. I didn;t find it. I saw you on Hank, and GMC, but not the CapnAmerica. But, I will take your word for it. I apologize for saying you didn;t give equal condemnation.
CapN, would aa “nic” be stolen for more than a handful of reasons?? very few tears for jesus here today, dont you think??
“You want him disciplined or fired.”
“What I disagree with is that you are doing this in the interest of the public.”
Please post where I EVER said either of those things. I am posting facts on a public forum.
And captain? I already said it’s obvious I hit a nerve about people posting from work. It’s theft of time, no matter how you try to justify it in your mind.
I think I said that before too…
And still no apology from lj for me calling out the captain?—–
Umm. I didn;t find it. I saw you on Hank, and GMC, but not the CapnAmerica. But, I will take your word for it. I apologize for saying you didn;t give equal condemnation.
Posted by: littlejohn | June 28, 2007 at 04:22 PM
Ummm KFG I think LJ already mentioned something about that…
And still no apology from lj for me calling out the captain?
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | June 28, 2007 at 04:23 PM
Already done once, but fine. I will apologize again for not stating that you gave everyone equal time or condemnaiton.
“Feeling a little guilty about posting capn? :)
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | June 28, 2007 at 01:50 PM
There ya go lj. And I’m calling out the captain right now.
So… no dispute on the facts, no reposting of shame, no reposting of me attacking gmc before he attacked me, no reposting of me commenting on his personal life, no reposting to prove the other accusations.
It’s ok if everyone does it.
got it.
Sorry, posts crossed.
“Please post where I have “shamed or threatened” gmc into silence.”
There is no doubt that all the shame is on the farm girl today. Your display of mean was top of the line. What you did today shows things about you we didn’t know before.
Heheheeh fleetie.
Like my sticking to the facts?
Like me calling out the bullshit here?
I thought those traits were fairly well known.
Mean? Hell, I’d have to get a number and stand in line here. Behind YOU.
You insist gmc has done nothing wrong, he’s innocent, and has nothing to be ashamed of. No mention has been made of his personal life, just his public professional life.
So why continue to attack me? If I wasnt right, you all wouldnt have had such hissy fits.
Once again, you just think it’s fine because you do it too.
Wow, the farmgirl is on full meltdown today. Holy ALS, Batman!
Could have done all that in one post KFG. Inefficiency is not becoming to you. :)
Hey fleetie, arent you always mr. capitalism, mr. NO UNIONS?
http://www.inc.com/news/articles/200608/time.html
I guess theft of services is NOT a union problem so you think it is ok?
heheheheheh
oooooo, big surprise that sgt asshole and repuke dont like my posts.
care to dispute the facts?
Or do you just want us to be SHOCKED that you dont like my posts.
Good grief.
Denial. It’s not just for breakfast anymore…
Oh and repuke? If I’d done it all in one post, you’d be bitchin’ about it being too long.
Care to dispute the facts? Or do you just want to whine about style and ignore the substance.
And if this was a liberal gun hater posting on the public dime from his taxpayer funded job, you all would be purple with rage. You’d be crying welfare state and personal responsibility and blaming it on the unions.
But since it is a conservative gun totin county attorney employee, you defend him.
Hypocrisy, thy name is….
ALS = ANGRY LESBIAN SYNDROME
It is a frightful condition! :)
“Hey fleetie, arent you always mr. capitalism, mr. NO UNIONS?”
That would be correct. You see, I am my own union. I don’t need unions because I can negotiate my own deal. I can decide for myself if what is offered will work for me. I can decide for myself.
So, you think assistant county attorney guys can negotiate rogue employement deals? You think THEY dont have to conform to county policy on personnel matters?
Wow. That ignorance is STUNNING!
Only elected officials get to do as they please regarding time. They can NOT do as they please regarding county equipment and resources.
I guess gmc gets to do both, even if he is a public employee and not an elected official. He just works for one.
Hey, farmgirl, haven’t you embarrassed yourself enough today?
Have you?
I still havent seen anything of substance from you. But then, that’s no surprise.
fap fap fap
I gotta leave for a while… be back later!! Have a good dinner hour you all!!
Given how wide spread this abuse is, I’m not surprised at the anger here. Guilt anyone?
“Traipsing around the Internet is the most popular form of loafing on the job. The insurance industry is particularly rife with goofing off, and Missouri is the top state for time-wasters.
Those are among the conclusions of a study on wasted time at work released Monday by compensation specialist Salary.com and Web portal America Online. Through a Web survey involving more than 10,000 employees, the report found that personal Internet surfing ranked as the top method of cooling one’s heels at work. It was cited by 44.7 percent of respondents as their primary time-wasting activity, followed by socializing with co-workers (23.4 percent) and conducting personal business (6.8 percent).
The average worker admits to frittering away 2.09 hours per day, not counting lunch, according to the report. That’s far more time than the roughly one hour per day employers expect the average employee to waste, the report said. The extra unproductive time adds up to $759 billion annually in salaries for which companies get no apparent benefit, the report said.
“It’s interesting to note that the Internet was cited as the leading time-wasting activity. It goes to show how integrated it has become to the daily functions of our personal and professional lives,” Samara Jaffe, a director at America Online, said in a statement. “Today, there are so many useful tools and Web sites on the Internet that have enabled people to become more efficient with accomplishing multiple tasks in a shorter amount of time.”
Unproductive hours on the job may have something to do with workdays growing longer. Between 1977 and 2002, average work hours increased, according to the Families and Work Institute. A growing number of workers favor time off rather than a raise, according to a study published earlier this year.
Now on News.comSolving the Web security challengeCloud OS is still pie in the skyThe countdown to the iPhoneExtra: The goriest video game ever Average hours wasted per person, per day, were highest in the insurance industry, at 2.5 hours per day. The public sector (excluding education) was second at 2.4 hours per day, followed by research & development at 2.3 hours a day. The “Software & Internet” industry ranked fifth, at 2.2 hours a day.
Those in Missouri wasted an average of 3.2 hours per day, per person, according to the report. Indiana ranked second at 2.8 hours per day.
More-than-expected time spent goofing off isn’t necessarily a bad thing, argued Bill Coleman, senior vice president at Salary.com. “In some cases this extra wasted time might be considered ‘creative waste’–time that may well have a positive impact on the company’s culture, work environment, and even business results,” Coleman said in a statement. “Personal Internet use and casual office conversations often turn into new business ideas or suggestions for gaining operating efficiencies.”
I’m so sure gmc’s gun rantings “often turn into new business ideas or suggestions for gaining operating efficiencies” for Butler county.
That MUST be why they let him do it with impunity.
Wow, sorry. I dont know how that other stuff got in the middle of my post. This is what I meant to say at the end.
“Personal Internet use and casual office conversations often turn into new business ideas or suggestions for gaining operating efficiencies.”
I’m so sure gmc’s gun rantings “often turn into new business ideas or suggestions for gaining operating efficiencies” for Butler county.
That MUST be why they let him do it with impunity.
Does anybody understand what is going on with the farmgirl?Do we need to schedule an intervention?
…and exactly WHICH facts here are you disputing fleetie?
(crickets chirping)
“Does anybody understand what is going on with the farmgirl?”
Yes. She is making some reasonable statements: 1) that productivity loss at the workplace is costly; 2) the internet is a prime cause of productivity loss; and 3) she asks, shouldn’t all employees be subject to workplace rules about doing personal blogging on the job?
And for those reasonable statements, she gets crap like this:”Do we need to schedule an intervention?”But that was from fleetie, so crap is all that one can expect.
But, I am surprised that this conversation has spurred nearly 300 posts. And yet, no one seems much inclinded to address these basic issues that KFG raises. Issues that she has backed up with sources. Says a lot about the myth of civil discourse that some around here like to whine about.
Steven,
If, perhaps, KFG framed her argument in the way you did we would have a decent conversation.
Instead she went about making accusations against GMC about his breaking the law and cheating the tax payers.
Steven Davis
No Steven, that’s not what’s going on here. GMC pissed her off and she flipped.
As an air traffic controller, I’m still able to blog between flights.
As far as my salary, I think all of you pa
I’m back. Anyway, as I was saying, I think all of you pay my salary. As long as I’m doing my job, who cares?
“How many kills of other humans have you chalked up nathan?Does that give you moral authority?I’d much rather answer for MY soul than yours if that day comes. My kill total? zero.And yours?”
Another example of farmgirl’s civil discourse, insulting Nathan earlier today.
Like Nathan never insults anyone.
Yeah, right.
“And yet, no one seems much inclinded to address these basic issues that KFG raises.”
That’s the amazing thing. They have been addressed over and over again. It’s nobody’s business who blogs where or when. She was being a threatening bully. No way around it. Against article 6 of the Fisting With Fury doctrine.
Damn grrl, you chucked the First Rule of Holes and dug all damn day!
My mother has told me since about 1960 that if she coulda bought me for what I was worth and sold me for what I thought I was worth, she could be the Queen of Sheba. That finally sunk in for me around 1979 when I finally learned there’s a difference between (1) bein’ right and (2) bein’ an asshole about it (duh). Point bein’ that takin’ action toward establishin’ the second tends to make most people utterly indifferent to the first.
What’s the weather like this morning in Shanghai?
Me, I am still waiting for an opening on the bridge so I can keep Nathan happy…. had to work on the car first…
With China, you often get more than you pay for!U.S. to check safety of imported Chinese seafood By Christopher Doering2 hours, 32 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The U.S Food and Drug Administration said on Thursday it will not allow imports of Chinese farm-raised catfish, shrimp and other seafood until suppliers can prove the shipments are free from harmful residues.
ADVERTISEMENTThe FDA said there was no immediate threat to public safety because of low levels of the substances in the seafood, but there was a chance serious health problems could develop if the product was consumed during a long period of time.
“Despite extensive communication between FDA and appropriate Chinese authorities to correct the problem, we’ve continued to find residues of certain veterinary drugs and food additives that are not permitted for use in the U.S. in farm fish products,” FDA Associate Commissioner for Regulatory Affairs Margaret O’ K. Glavin told reporters.
FDA said catfish, basa, shrimp, dace and eel will not be allowed into the United States from China until the importer can demonstrate the product has met U.S. requirements and safety standards.
The temporary hold on farm-raised seafood comes following a series of safety concerns U.S. officials have uncovered with products imported from China. More than 1 million toy trains were recalled on June 13 because some may have contained lead paint.
And earlier this year, melamine, a chemical used in plastics and fertilizers, surfaced in U.S. pet food, killing animals and prompting wide recalls. A poisonous chemical often found in solvents and antifreeze also was recently detected in some toothpaste imported from China.
“They are working hard to address food safety issues in China,” said Dr. David Acheson, FDA’s assistant commissioner for food protection. “However, our goal is to protect the American consumer and we believe that this is the appropriate action.”
The FDA has faced criticism as recent food scares reveal low inspection rates. As food imports grow 15 percent a year, the FDA inspected just 1.3 percent of the goods under its purview in fiscal 2006. FDA estimated 5 percent of seafood imported is inspected because it is a higher-risk product.
“This latest crisis is further proof that FDA has serious catching up to do. There is a pattern emerging here,” said Tom Harkin, chairman of the Senate Agriculture Committee.
China is the largest producer of farmed fish, handling 50 percent of the total value of global aquacultured seafood exports around the world. It also is the third largest exporter of seafood to the United States.
The United States has been closely watching Chinese farmed-fish products exports since 2001. In November 2006, FDA said eel imported from China must be shown to be safe before it can be allowed into the United States.
The FDA said a sampling of imported Chinese seafood from October 2006 through May 2007 found more than 15 percent of shipments were contaminated with antimicrobial agents that are not approved for this use in the United States.
The FDA said it is not seeking recall of Chinese seafood products already in U.S. stores and is not advising consumers to destroy or return imported farm-raised seafood they may already have in their homes
The substances found in the imported seafood included nitrofuran, malachite green and fluoroquinolone, which the FDA said when used in food animals may increase antibiotic resistance to this critically important class of antibiotics.
None of these substances is approved for use in farm-raised seafood in the United States, and the use of nitrofurans and malachite green in aquaculture is also prohibited by Chinese authorities.
Shanghai weather: Crear to pawtry croudy… like the rest of the world…
Say No to FOD in our FOOD!
“Steven,
“If, perhaps, KFG framed her argument in the way you did we would have a decent conversation.”
Please frame your question in English…
“Steven Davis
“No Steven, that’s not what’s going on here. GMC pissed her off and she flipped.”
Please provide evidence of your claim, Mr. Heckler. Otherwise, we will conclude that your disagreement is B.S. – which is usually the case. Which is not to say that I don’t like you. I do. It’s just that your rethorical style is profound B.S.
“That’s the amazing thing. They have been addressed over and over again. It’s nobody’s business who blogs where or when. She was being a threatening bully. No way around it. Against article 6 of the Fisting With Fury doctrine.
“Posted by: fleettwood | June 28, 2007 at 08:13 PM”
Sorry, bird shit, litter, and graffiti, you are way off, as is usually the case.
Support your case, you hopeless dumb ass. Oh, I guess you can’t. Big surprise there.
“care to dispute the facts?”Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | June 28, 2007 at 04:54 PM
We don’t really know what “the facts” are, do we? GMC doesn’t really post that often. We don’t know for sure where he’s posting from. You’ll note that I posted all through the day yesterday and will do the same today. Maybe like me, GMC isn’t “on the clock”. We really just don’t know and GMC is in no way obligated to tell us.
KFG, I respectfully disagree with your position on this one. IMHO, it looks threatening.
“KFG, I respectfully disagree with your position on this one.”
I think kfg is on to something.If she had any guts, she’d do something about it.
Just like I predicted. Only the concealed carry worshipers support gmc posting on the taxpayers dime.
Oh, yeah, and the captain who clearly has a guilty conscience.
Please repost whatever threats I made.
And I repeat, if this were some LIBERAL public employee doing politics on the public dime, every single one of you would be screaming like stuck hogs.
Oh, wait. You are screaming like stuck hogs. Just outraged at the truth I guess.
“Just outraged at the truth I guess.”
Then stop talkin’ and start chalkin’.
fap fap fap
Good God. STILL???
I welcome GMC (and anyone else for that matter) posting anytime he wants. If it is on company time, it is between him and his boss. Hell, I didn’t even know where he worked. It is not my job to police him, nor is it anyone elses.
As far as misappropriating county resources, we really have no way to know if that is happening or not. Again, that is between him and his boss. His boss is an elected official and she is responsible to the voters for what happens under her watch.
GMC – a question. As I understand it you work in a prosecutorial position. Based on my very limited knowledge it is a part of your job to actually help ‘get me off’ if the evidence tells you I’m not the right guy. Is that correct?
Ben:
The beauty of what I do is that I get to do, and in fact ethically MUST do, the right thing. A prosecutor should only bring a charge based upon evidence that indicates that the charged individual is in fact guilty. So yes, if I (and I hope every prosecutor) ever determine, based upon the evidence, that the person charged is not guilty, I will dismiss the case. Immediately.
I don’t consider that “getting someone off.” I consider that doing the right thing.
The flip side of that, of course, is that if the evidence convinces me that an accused is in fact guilty, I should use all the legal tools at my disposal to convict that person (subject, of course, to the rules of evidence, ethical limitations, and prosecutorial discretion decisions).
It was the utter failure of Nyfong to do this very thing (plus a little withholding of evidence) that cost him so dearly. As well it should.
Thanks GMC. (I was using vernacular in my phrase) I agree with you 100%.
I was thinking not only of Nifong but also of the OR claim that Morrison was “acting like he was Tiller’s attorney”
As you note (assuming I am reading you correctly) if I am accused and you have contrary evidence you end up “acting like my attorney”
But, if i am guilty, you will do your best to nail me to the wall!
Ben:
Don’t read me the wrong way. As a prosecutor, I’m NEVER an individual’s attorney, and certainly not a defendant’s. My client is the State, and the state’s interests. I’m not even the victim’s attorney (if there is a tangible victim); in fact, I may well prosecute (and I have)even if the victim does not want me to.
So no, Morrison is NEVER Tiller’s attorney. If Morrison is doing his job properly, he will go where the evidence leads. If that means there is no evidence to sustain charges, then charges should be dismissed. But don’t confuse that to mean he’s acting as Tiller’s attorney.
Carry an assumption commonly made here a step further. Kline’s charges, presumably, were politically motivated. Assume for the moment that’s true. Does that mean, necessarily, that Morrison’s refusal to file those charges, and finding, conveniently, alternative “technical” violations, are not equally politically motivated? Why, do you think, Tiller used an associated physician to get the findings he needed to carry out those late abortions?