Rudy Giuliani says he is personally opposed to abortion but doesn’t want to impose that view on others. To which Thomas J. Tobin, the Roman Catholic bishop of Providence, R.I., responded: "I can just hear Pilate saying, ‘You know, I’m personally opposed to crucifixion but I don’t want to impose my belief on others.’"
A question for Giuliani about the bishop’s criticism provided the best moment of Tuesday’s debate, when his answer coincided with lightning and thunder. "Look, for someone who went to parochial schools all his life, this is a very frightening thing that’s happening right now," Giuliani said, as other candidates moved away from him in mock fear.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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102 Comments
What a joke….
The president swears an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and the laws established under it, regardless of his personal feelings on the matter.
Read the personal letters of Abraham Lincoln regarding slavery versus his public statements of the matter…Since slavery was constitutional he was bound by his own oath and the law to abide by it no matter how odious he found it personally.
“…the law to abide by it no matter how odious he found it personally.”
Hogwash. Forget about the Emancipation Proclaimation?
Only now does the media and the WE actually care about abortion…
What are Hilary Clintons and Osama ( I am not a Muslim ) Obamas stance on Abortion?
I will vote for Rudy because he still represents more of my issues than any of the Democrats.
Sigh…Try reading a little bit about it fleet instead of opening your mouth and inserting your foot each time you answer.
“Lincoln himself had declared in peacetime he had no constitutional authority to free the slaves. The war gave him war powers. Emancipation was still a risky political act because of strong opposition among Copperhead Democrats, and the uncertain impact on loyal border states. As such, the proclamation was a military order issued by Lincoln in his capacity as Commander-in-Chief, rather than the equivalent of a statute enacted by Congress, or a constitutional amendment. The Emancipation Proclamation also allowed for the enrollment of freed slaves into the United States military. Nearly 200,000 blacks did join, most of them ex-slaves. This gave the North an additional manpower resource that the Confederacy would not emulate until the final months before its defeat.”
The war was what allowed him to issue the proclamation, not his innate ability to bypass the Constitution.
T H E W A R A L L O W E D H I M T O D O I T.
“I will vote for Rudy…”
Nathan- Only if it is a write-in vote.
I would vote for any Republican, but right now I am favoring Rudy.
The Proclaimation freed no one.
fleettwood,
Then why did you bring it up??
Fleetwood = Proclaimation Monkey
Republican nutters like Brownback want to force women to give birth but they also don’t want to provide medical coverage to pay for it. More children are just another cheap labor force for the Republicans.
“Republican nutters like Brownback want to force women to give birth but they also don’t want to provide medical coverage to pay for it.”
What’s one got to do with the other Doug? Are you saying that abortion is justified if the medical bills might be expensive? There is help available.
“More children are just another cheap labor force for the Republicans.”
They also will pay your social security Doug. So unless you want to cancel SS, you either grow them yourself or import them from Mexico.
Or maybe Arab countries. The number one name for newborn boys in Britain is Mohammad. Scary.
My social security is being paid just fine. How nice that you think people should breed just so you can get a paycheck each month. This must be the “culture of life” Republicans blabber about. You just confirmed what I said, Republicans just want a cheap labor force so they can work and provide you with a monthly check. How utterly pathetic.
“Then why did you bring it up??”
Today, we would call that an end run around the Constitution.
ummm, no
Under a number of theories Lincoln had the power to issue the proclamation. One of the most obvious is that slaves were deemed property, and therefore could be taken and disposed of in time of war as contraband.
“Republicans just want a cheap labor force so they can work and provide you with a monthly check.”
Now, that’s just silly. Silly monkey
You’re right fleety, Republicans need children to molest as well.
“Under a number of theories Lincoln had the power…”
The proclaimation was a milk and water concoction that didn’t free anyone, but it did keep England and France out of the war. That’s all he wanted and he got it. It was brilliant.
Yup, not one lib in history has ever molested a child. They kill them first.
Warm and fuzzy monkey :-)
“Republicans need children to molest as well.”
You jump right to the molesting, clark jumps right to the “N” word. Maybe you let us know too much?
Here’s your list of “pro-family” Republicans who want to protect the “culture of life” so they can molest children:
http://www.armchairsubversive.org/
Ha. Look at Doug’s link. amrchairsubversive.org. I wouldn’t click. Probably just as nasty as maggotpunks.com.
You might get some on you.
Yeah, anything to avoid facts. That’s why you’re a Republican.
If the “facts” are located in a link called:
http://www.armchairsubversive.org/
then they need to do a better job of publishing them.
So something is automatically wrong because how a URL is titled. That’s the intellectual curiosity and logical reason which makes you a creationist.
So what’s wrong with the actual facts or are you too scared to actually learn something that shatters your ignorance?
maggotpunks dot com
A Website where if they don’t have the facts, they’ll create them.
What’s not factual on the website? Or is this just another one of your baseless claims?
maggotpunks.com seems to have expired?
Maybe they forgot to pay the light bill. Too bad.
say it isn’t so! I love the MP website.
That priest should not be injecting his belief into this. Save the babies! Yeah, that’s what got millions of mothers AND babies killed before it was legal.
Religious leaders need to pull their heads out.
I don’t like Rudy, regardless of his pro-choice stance. He probably insisted a few of his women get abortions.
Nathan,
Just like your dad, what’s with the Osama reference to Obama?
He was a child taken to another country. You believe the lie, he was indoctrinated.
In college at Harvard, where subculture feelings explode, nothing but success there.
Abortion shouldn’t be a decider on political choices. The Supreme Court rules on restrictions.
The Federalist Society is working hard in the background trying to be all the politically connected lawyers. They want to change laws the Supreme Court enacted.
Some of the Justices are Federalist, John Roberts didn’t claim to be a member, but allowed himself to be named on that list.
Right!
“Yeah, that’s what got millions of mothers AND babies killed before it was legal.” Pmom
I heard it was billions.
Hei, if Nathan can equate Obama with Osama (with a tinge of religious hatred there), can I refer Nathan Price as THE Nathan Price from Barbara Kingsolver’s “The Poisonwood Bible”?
I thought he was from the Peckerwood Bible.
(author unknown)
Lapin Koira,
Finnish eh? Why do you use a herding dog as your name? Are you a breeder of such animals?
The Osama reference just shows how childish some right wingers really are. It is not a surprise that Nathan, a person blinded by partisan hatred would think that it is cute to equate a US Senator and Presidential candidate with a terrorist and mass murderer.
Nathan is a pathetic punk that has to resort to making fun of a person’s name to coverup his complete lack of any ability to have an adult discussion or contribute any value to this or any other thread.
Because “Lapin Susi” just don’t sound as good in English! Besides, those dogs are good for guarding Santa’s rides. Furthermore, I now am legally related to a family farm by the Arctic Circle.
We are at war – sort of. Can Bush issue an Emancipation Proclamation II, so that babies in George Tiller’s illegal abortion mill are no longer treated as property and brutally killed for profit? We can follow up with an amendment to the Kansas Constitution, granting babies the rights of naturalized citizens to life, liberty, and property from the moment of conception, under the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
“Nathan is a pathetic punk”
I will second that motion…………
If everyone just spent more time paying attention to their own lives, and less attention to others, we’d have a much happier healthier society.
If that group that oppose abortion were able to just say to themselves, “you know, I don’t agree with that, I won’t ever do it” and could just stop there, and leave their opinion as just that, an opinion, then there wouldn’t be any argument. They also wouldn’t be getting their opinion validated, which is where the problem begins. People with a strong opinion seem to feel pretty righteous, and in large enough numbers can get laws passed.
It’s really nice that a person can fight to outlaw abortion, and go home feeling really good about themselves when they don’t have to wait around to witness the carnage of their actions.
But why is it so hard to just live your life as you see fit, and allow other people the same liberty you enjoy? If a woman has an abortion, that’s on her, and no one else. I don’t see any pro-lifers stepping up to take responsibility for an unwanted child that they are trying to force others to keep. It’s easy to make a judgment when you aren’t sitting in the big chair.
“If everyone just spent more time paying attention to their own lives, and less attention to others, we’d have a much happier healthier society.”
Damn, Joe, that is what pro-choice folks have been saying for YEARS!
Do ya’ think we can get the anti-choice folks to agree?
Nah! Because anti-choice people are being told by their pastors that is they don’t fight to get abortion illegal, then you will go to hell.
And I’m serious! I’m not making fun of them. They have been told it’s God’s mission to save the unborn. They believe they are doing the Lord’s work when they bomb abortion clinics and shot at abortion doctors.
Joe: I will say one thing for you. You have a knack for taking characteristics of the most extreme and applying them to all who might come under a banner.
Joe? That “knack” I mentioned? That is not a good thing.
Being prolife to me has nothing to do with “God”. Your sterotypes get pretty boring….you always end up demonizing someone just because they disagree with you…and I suppose you call yourselves “Christians”…what a laugh!Is that what your god wants? For you to kill unborn babies for any reason whatsoever…show me where your bible justifies that..Oh wait, I forget, you all make it up as you go along. It’s OK to break your commandments as long as they’re inconvenient or self denying in anyway.
PS if your “God” exists, I’ll bet He’s prolife!
Mary,
As has been shown numerous times, what little reference the Bible does make to the death of a fetus or young child doesn’t support your position. If you’re going to use the Bible to support your position maybe you should read it.
Genesis 38:24Exodus 13:1-2Exodus 21:22Genesis 22:1-14 (not for abortion but for the status of young children)
In addition since the Canaanites/Israelites absorbed much of the law from societies already in the area, it is worth looking at their statutes:
Code of Hammurabi (209, 210) which reads: “If a seignior struck a[nother] seignior’s daughter and has caused her to have a miscarriage [literally, caused her to drop that of her womb], he shall pay ten shekels of silver for her fetus. If that woman had died, they shall put his daughter to death.”
Hittite Laws, (1.17): “If anyone causes a free woman to miscarry [literally, drives out the embryo]-if (it is) the 10th month, he shall give 10 shekels of silver, if (it is) the 5th month, he shall give 5 shekels of silver…” The phrase “drives out the embryo” appears to relate to a miscarriage rather than to a premature birth.
Word on the street is that Giuliani has yet another mistress.
Good giddling gosh, this guy is living like a Frenchman.
Not to be outdone by Giulani’s “Sign from God”, Brownback promises to speak in tongues at next debate!
Why must it always be, all or nothing?
Couldn’t a women be free to choose the first trimester, and if later, petition the court to see if there is a reason beside being pissed off at her boyfriend? (Which Is Rare), most are done because of health, or a severe problem with the fetus.
After all, freedom to choose was the issue that caused Satan’s fall from grace.
Nathan,I goggled all the people on the link you provided and all were either arrested, charged or convicted of the pedo charges. As I said in an earlier post, these people are not republicans, just as any democrats in the same sick league are not democrats. They are people belonging in jail and banned from public service, with NO pension.
Let’s see Nancy get that one. Hell, let’s see congress get it fixed. Don’t hold your breath. fixed.
Because a woman’s rights to make her decisions over her own body should not have any slippery slope. It isn’t a position to compromise even a little.
Parkay, last I knew, we lived in a Democracy, King George can’t write your laws in, and the SCOTUS has already ruled that any amendment to the Kansas Constitution to outlaw abortion can’t happen.
It’s equal in scope to having a faith in god yet playing god because there is no god. The true god fearing folk who believe in god have faith that god will cast evil doers into the payers of hell. Those who say they believe in god but instead play god are the ones who create that hell for everyone else… Including themselves and if I know god the way they do I’m sure he will be happy to meet them and have a specially reserved place for them as so those who believe say…
Fortunately for them.. I don’t believe in god.
Joe: Like my grandad used to say; “you’re making as much sense as tits on a boar hog.”
outlander,
and you’re a master-bator
That is so good BFAH. How do you do it? Tell the truth, because I’m sure no one’s ever heard that one before. Did you make it up?
You are a such great debater.
outlander,
I’m glad you’re enjoying it. Maybe you kind gt the idea of what it’s like when you “debate”…the level isn’t too much above this.
So tell me, how do you manage it? I mean are you really 8 or is the brain damage that severe?
Well, outlander,
I really must go. Chip, Chip. Do have fun making and throwing your mud pies.
Ta ta BFAH. But just remember. You started the juvenile insults. Sleep tight.
out the door now..
nya, nya, nya, nya, nyaaaaaa, nyaaaaa
He started it…no he did !! Definitely 8.
ROFLMAO
Thanks for informing me the website was down. The guy who maintains the site apparently hasn’t been checking the email about the domain name expiring today. Don’t worry, it should all be back up tomorrow with all the factually correct information.
Oh but mom, there comes a time when the fetus can survive outside the womb, your argument has merit upto that point.Afterall there are plenty of people waiting to adopt.
“They believe they are doing the Lord’s work when they bomb abortion clinics and shot at abortion doctors.”Posted by: Joe Williams | June 06, 2007 at 07:12 PM
Joe, when exactly was the last abortion clinic bombing?
You pro-death / anti-life folks are a riot. It isn’t just about religion, so move on with that one. It is about morality vs. mortality.
Ape Hater,
Since you do not believe in God, I am surprised to see you quoting from His book.
Why do we stop at the womb? By Hater’s standards, let’s extend abortion out 9 months AFTER birth. You get sick of your kid, just take her in and have her brain sucked out. That about where you were headed with your post?
As long as the baby is still in my body, it is still my medical decision to make. If I wanted to get a c-section simply because I didn’t want to be pregnant anymore…show me ONE doctor who would perform it for me.
The baby dies either way P_Mom. That should tell you something about abortionists and real doctors. Makes you think hmmmmmmm.
In reality, every time a menstrual cycle is completed, that is considered an abortion.
So why not force women to remove all their eggs and have them fertilize? It’s life by the way!
Look! The abortion stance is not my fight. I always default to freedom, and that includes reproductive choice.
Now is abortion a cruel procedure? Yeah! Especially late term, but so is cosmetic surgery, stomach shrinking, circumcisions and the other things that people find acceptable in our society.
For instances! I don’t believe in circumcision, but I don’t care if other people do it to their baby boys.
I wouldn’t request or choose abortion, if it came to my children, but that is the decision left to the mother.
The difference is, that I’m not some baby killing spawn of Satan. I just butt out of other peoples decision.
Abortion is a topic that is useless to discuss. Everybody is right, everybody else is wrong. Pro-lifers are trying to keep women as chattel, Pro-choicers are for killing children. Give it a rest why don;t cha. The matrix is real
Littlejohn! I don’t know.
Because!…. There is a spoon!
O OL(__)
“In reality, every time a menstrual cycle is completed, that is considered an abortion.”
By whom?
All the other procedures you mentioned do not result in death. Therein lies the diffrence.
All right, LJ, you’re right. Done deal.
Sol, the last attempt to bomb a women’s medical clinic was in April of this year.
http://www.kswo.com/Global/story.asp?S=6520738
Somehow fighting ‘terrorists’ in Iraq didn’t prevent this Christian terrorist from trying to kill Americans.
DAMN IT!!! My freakin home state too. Score one doug.
THe link doesn;t place him as a “Christian”, although it is highly possible that he wouild proclaim himself as such. Either way, if convicted, life in prison woould be an excellent start.
Every clinic bomber in the U.S. has been a Christian nutjob. American Muslims are anti-abortion too but they are much smaller in number and tend to desire to blow up different targets. The media has a habit of never identifying a Christian terrorist as a Christian, such is the case of the Liberty University terrorist. He only got the label of being a Nazi.
Well Doug, since 80% of the US population is Christian, the odds were pretty good.
Are those guys that commandeered your website holding you up on the price of getting it back?
It’s probably be back up later today. The domain registration had expired but it’s been renewed so it just takes some time to process.
I just wish abortion prohibitionists would get a clue and get honest about the issue.
Roe v. Wade didn’t invent abortion. Women have sought ways to prevent pregnancy ever since women have been getting pregnant. Women have sought ways to terminate pregnancy for just as long.
It’s only because pregnancy affects women differently than it does men — and that women have tradionally been treated as 2nd-Class Citizens — that abortion is a political issue.
Bottom Line: Abortion abolitionists’ true agenda is to keep women 2nd-Class Citizens.
I just wish they’d get honest about it. There’s plenty of tradition and scads of scripture to back up your case. So come clean with it! State your case honestly with what you consider the truth and admit your Women-Are-2nd-Class-Citizens agenda and let the issue be decided out in the open.
Stop deflecting your real agenda with made-up crap such as “partial-birth” abortions. Stop trying to enact your theology into the Constitution of the United States of America which clearly states there should be no religious test for representatives of government. Believe all you want that every sperm is sacred and if a teenaged loose woman “does the crime,” she’s gotta “do the time.” Just don’t inject your religious dogma into non-sectarian civil law.
Teach your children. That’s your job. Your job is not to teach my children. But your faith in whatever “god” you’re convinced is the “One *True* God” is out of place in this great nation’s Constitution.
If you believe in the God of Abraham (which means you’re either a Muslim or of the Judeo-Christian philosophy), groovy. If you believe in the god-ness of the Buddha, live with it. If you’re a Druid and worship oak trees, have at it.
In *this* nation, however, your interpretation of “God” just doesn’t matter in civil law. It can guide you and your representatives, but it cannot dictate the laws they enact.
It’s the American way.
As a hypothetical, mind you, let’s assume that someone had $27 Million to develop a surgical technique that could transplant a fetus into another uterus.
We’ve learned so much from heart and kidney and liver and lung transplants. It should be a piece of cake for doctors to remove a pre-natal fetus from the uterus of a woman who seeks an abortion and transplanting that fetus into a woman who truly hates abortion.
Maybe it would be fetal transplant. Perhaps the best method would be a full uterus transplant. But there certainly plenty of transplant-recipients outside of Dr. Tiller’s clinic. No longer would it be a so-called “Abortion Mill,” it would be a “Fetal Transplant Oasis!”
And the research to achieve this ultimate resolution to the abortion question could probably be done with $27 Million worth of research.
(Whoops! We spent that $27 Million on the Creation Museum in Cincinnati.)
Exactly right, LTP.
What Roe v Wade did was to allow POOR women to get abortions, the comfortable middle class and the rich never had any problems getting their little secrets taken care of . . .
See the case of one George W. Bush and his pregnant girlfriend in Texas in 1971 before Roe had been ratified. The Bushes know how to make these inconvenience “go away.”
Meanwhile, thanks to Roe v Wade, millions of unwanted children of the poor were not born, thus turning around violent crime statistics in the early ’90’s and saving our society from tens of thousands of future criminals.
Fascinating idea, MH.
I’d like to see this discussed further.
“Capn” –
See, that’s one of the aspects of the “Do the Crime, Do the Time” talking points of the abortion abolitionists.
We’ve had, what? 40 years of people screaming “You’re killing your *BABY*!!!”?
Perhaps, just perhaps, a woman facing an unplanned, unexpected, unwanted pregnancy who has heard the ranters and ravers outside abortion clinics…and who has proceeded on to terminate her pregnance… just might not be “mother” material.
I like “MonkeyHawk’s” proposal to perfect fetal or uterine transplants into all those women who rant and rage and protest against abortion. If the real issue is to stand up for the rights of a developing fetus, there should be no shortage of volunteers who’d accept an unworthy mother’s unwanted pregnancy.
We could pick ‘em up off the street and force the transplant into their bodies!
Choice?
Nah. They’re against that.
“Meanwhile, thanks to Roe v Wade, millions of unwanted children of the poor were not born, thus turning around violent crime statistics in the early ’90’s and saving our society from tens of thousands of future criminals.”
Capn: The “poor” are criminals? You are praising Roe v Wade because it allowed the unborn children of the poor to be aborted? And that is a good thing because some of those kids might have grown up to be criminals?
Nice.
God and morals are not sewn together. Otherwise you would be deemed as having no morals.
You stand and fight for women’s rights. We stand for children’s rights. Women have a voice of their own, they can fight for what they believe. What do the children have?
outlander–
I’m not praising anything.
I’m simply pointing out the fact that 1. criminality and poverty are related and 2. unwanted children of the poor are more likely to become violent criminals than the rest of the population.
So, because of Roe v Wade, we saw a dramatic reduction of violent crime 15-20 years out.
It was an unintended consequence that had positive effects for our society.
The only thing I praise is letting women make their own decisions.
For the billionth time – lets do something about the issue of unwanted pregnancies instead of yapping about abortion. Contrary to the opinion of some, the issue really is about unwanted pregnancies. The solution is to reduce the number of same through comprehensive sex education and the availability of condoms and other birth control means for those that cannot afford them.
I hate to be overly blunt (okay, not really) but the cost of condoms can be relatively high. They ain’t cheap.
Abortions are not cheap either, morally, emotionally and financially.
Instead of claiming that abstinence is the only way, why can’t we put some effort into actually doing something to reduce pregnancies that are unplanned and unwanted?
Safe, legal and RARE needs to be more than just a bumper sticker slogan.
As I have said before, how many condoms could we buy for the cost of one abortion?
“WSClark” –
We need to remember that “conservatives” have no desire to outlaw or eliminate abortion; they depend on the *issue to generate money and votes.
They’ve tested their rhetoric and they can garner big donations if they can focus on killing “babies.” It’s the Right Wingnut response to clubbing baby seals. They’re *CUTE!!!*
It’s the great fundraiser for televangelists and brings out the sheeple on election day. But Republics don’t do anything to actually outlaw abortion. It’s much more valuable to them as an issue than it is the disasterous policy they claim to advocate.
Yeah, I tried that argument once and got shot at repeatedly for it, but it is true for some.
It’s funny, the Republicans had the Congress for twelves years, and all three branches for the last six prior to November 2006, and they did not produce even one bill in committee to outlaw abortion.
I wonder why that is…….
There are some, Mary Caruso for one, that would legitimately like to see abortion become rare. Unlike others, she does support comprehensive sex education.
I have a whole lot more respect for that position than for those that just want to yap about unborn babies.
The issue is not abortion – it is unwanted pregnancies. We could get a lot more done if more people would recognize that fact.
(PS – Sorry Mary for using your name without permission.)
“For the billionth time – lets do something about the issue of unwanted pregnancies instead of yapping about abortion.”
WSClark takes matter into his own hands daily, sometimes several times daily, literally.
Foolish pride, is all that he has left, so let him hide, the tears and the sadness we gave him, when we said goodbye, so walk on by……….
FTL,
“Stop deflecting your real agenda with made-up crap such as “partial-birth” abortions. Stop trying to enact your theology into the Constitution of the United States of America which clearly states there should be no religious test for representatives of government. Believe all you want that every sperm is sacred and if a teenaged loose woman “does the crime,” she’s gotta “do the time.” Just don’t inject your religious dogma into non-sectarian civil law.”
Religion has nothing to do with it. There’s just something wrong when a doctor could be charged with manslaughter for accidentally killing a fetus. There are people sitting on death row because they were found guilty of murdering the mother, and fetus. Yet if the mother doesn’t want the fetus in late term, she can have it killed no problem.
IMO, that is just as insane as saying: “It’s Murder!” when speaking of using embryos that are going to be desposed of for stem cell research.
The fetus is human and the question is whether or not you can kill another unborn human for any reason. We kill humans in war, with the death penalty, in self defense. How far do we go? All the rhetoric doesn’t change the FACT that the fetus is a developing human being that will have life unless someone kills it. At least be honest about what abortion is…it’s not just about women controlling their bodies..if women “chose” to control their bodies they wouldn’t be pregnant unless they wanted to be…and don’t give me the rape/incest argument..that’s a very small percentage.Should we be allowed to kill an unborn child for ANY reason we choose?What about the mom who burned her daughter to death the other day here in Wichita? If she could kill her baby in the final months of her pregnancy when it’s viable…should she be charged with murder if she decides to kill “the product of her womb” after it’s born?Where do we draw the line about killing others and denying them a chance at life because we can’t be bothered?
Mary? How many abortions are late term? A very small percentage.
People are trying to get the day-after pill banned, because they consider it killing a fetus and therefore abortion.
This entire mess with Roe vs Wade started with bans on birth control pills.
When there is an unwanted pregnancy, the woman should have the right to choose to abort, although I will agree with you that late term abortions are brutal and should be highly regulated. But the first month or two, should be the optimal time.
Joe: To those who believe that a child in womb is human life, your example is like arguing it is better to kill a 6 month old baby than a one year old.
Sometimes it is!
You know! Just like Mary said, sometimes people gotta die.
Like Terry Schiavo! They should of pulled that plug long time ago.
If you wanna go back to clothes hangers and rusty knives of before Roe vs Wade, when many women died at home trying to do the procedure themselves, then go ahead.
“Where do we draw the line about killing others and denying them a chance at life because we can’t be bothered?”
We have the line drawn…and that line is when the child is living independently of the mother’s body.
Is living, or can live?
Contrary to popular misconception, doctors like Tiller do not just perform late term abortions wily-nilly, nor do women seek out abortions eight months and twenty-nine days into a pregnancy.
In reality, there are few late term abortions and they are done for good reasons. You may not agree with the reasons, but that is between the patient and her doctor.
It is not our choice to make.
I’m just checking in to see if Republican found those errors on the Maggot Punk website yet. Maybe he’ll present them alongside the evidence for creationism.
Many would argue that late term abortions should be done for ANY reason. So…if a child is viable and able to live outside the womb should the mother be able to abort for any reason?Late term abortions do happen..even if they’re not the norm. I know 3 women who were in their 6th and 7th month who aborted when the child may have lived on it’s own with a little help. There was no threat to the mother’s life and there were no defects that were known, all mothers simply took that long to make up their minds.So where DO you draw the line? And is it fair and just?
Mary,So, in every case a woman has to justify her reason to have an abortion? And who decides whether her arguments are truthful and carry enough weight to be awarded that abortion? Courts? And do the fundies who oppose All abortions for Any reason get to appeal that ruling? And just how long is this process supposed to take?Reminds me of the old Russian solution, where abortions were perfectly legal, but there was an 11 month waiting list to get one! Is that your strategy, to take your cues from communists?
“I know 3 women who were in their 6th and 7th month who aborted when the child may have lived on it’s own with a little help. There was no threat to the mother’s life and there were no defects that were known, all mothers simply took that long to make up their minds.”________________________________
Please tell me what state you live in, or the states that these women lived in. I am an attorney, I am pro-choice (just wantd to say that upfront), and I am fairly familiar with the abortion laws in various states.
Abortions performed during the third trimester of pregnancy are ILLEGAL in the United States. One has a right to an abortion until the fetus is VIABLE, which is currently recognized as the 24th week of pregnancy (Roe vs. Wade). The women to which you refer legally COULD NOT have an abortion past their 24th week unless they suffered from a severe health problem that presents a serious threat to them.
Either you have the incorrect information (i.e., they had abortions earlier than you thought), they are lying, or you are lying. I am not attacking you personally, but the story that you told appears to be legally improbable (nothing is really impossible I guess). The only other way that it could be true is if they got “back alley abortions,” but at that stage in their pregnancy such a procedure would probably result in death.
One of the reasons that I find it so difficult to accept the pro-life view of abortion is because I feel that pro-lifers (not all, but many) seem to offer up ridiculous stories or make up even more ridiculous statistics to back up their reasons to end abortion. If you want to end it, fine, but don’t make up outlandish claims to support yor beliefs.
(Although I must admit that the pro-choicer’s comment about violence decreasing some huge percentage after abortion was legalized was also not only ridiculous, but not backed up by any objective statistical proof).
EDIT:
I should have said, such abortions (after 24 weeks) are illegal unless there is a medically verified severe threat to the mother’s health.