In his preshow remarks at Music Theatre of Wichita’s performances of "Disney’s High School Musical," producing director Wayne Bryan has sounded a caution about the rumors of a possible Century II casino in a subtle but effective way. He mentions that the 77 talented area young performers in the exuberant staging are cause for celebrating that the "beautiful" 38-year-old building is used for its intended purpose. Judging from the positive vocal response his comment has drawn from the sold-out crowds, lots of people agree.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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Rumors! The stories below describe past statements. At no time does anyone say Century II is going to be a casino.
I can’t imagine it being a casino.
Too much a landmark as a Convention Center.
City turning over management to SMG is a possibly. Already a done deal?
Uneasiness exists.
Arts events being next to casino? Wait until the Aug. vote to worry about it.
The Canadians plan and site has to be picked in Topeka.
Worry about rumors after Aug. Then casino details will emerge.
It’s rabble rousing now for what reason?
Someday a new Convention Center could be constructed in another location. Should it look like larger Century II or redesigned by national architect?
City has to create a new Library before the casino can take over that property.
Put the Library next to new Convention Center, in the Watkin’s Steel area, extending to Seneca.
Maybe the City will want to create their own 1 cent sales tax to pay for that.
{clipped}
Canadian company Saratoga Finance is proposing a $300 million casino on a 35-acre site that currently houses Century II, the Hyatt Regency Wichita and the downtown library, said Saratoga president Bryan Hamm.
They selected the site because it is big enough to absorb $300 million and has existing hotel and entertainment space at Century II and the Hyatt. It’s also close to a highway and has a glamorous spot on the river.
“It’s a great site,” Hamm said.
Local gambling impresario Phil Ruffin says he’s interested in building a casino at the southeast corner of Broadway and Douglas, although he may be blocked by a provision in the casino law that prevents the same person from owning a dog track and a casino.
The Friends of Century II has learned that city staff have decided to award a contract to manage Century II to SMG.
In the last five years SMG’s and Aramark’s management of arenas around the country have prompted negative coverage in the press.
The unfavorable publicity has focused on six areas of mismanagement: underpayment of wages to workers, alcohol sales, accounting practices, facility deterioration, general poor performance, and conflicts of interest in contract awards. Of the cases of mismanagement discussed here, at least one touches on each of these half-dozen issues.
This morning’s Sunday EAGLE contains a kind of Quixotic musing by Bryan Derreberry, manager of the local Chamber, most recently from North Carolina.
Derreberry, of course, is being paid to support construction of a $300,000,000.15, so far unneeded white elephant downtown arena. Derryberry, at least in his official capacity, sees nothing wrong with forcing the “small people,” Sedgwick County taxpayers, to come up with some 1/3 of a billion dollars for something most will probably not use.
In his comments, Derreberry uses the term SMART to frame his comments.
I suggest the term IGNORE would be a better term to use.
I — Ignore the wishes of the people of Sedgwick County.
G — Get another vote on the downtown arena to determine what the taxpayers really want.
N — Just say NO to the downtown area.
O — One gigantic waste of over a 1/4 billion dollars of taxpayers’ hard-earned dollars.
R — Re-vote the downtown arena at the August primary election.
E — PrioritizE uses for the $300,000,000.15 for real needs of Wichita and Sedgwick County.
Remember this building is intended for ice hockey and basketball … and NOT for conventions, concerts, presentations, etc. Acoustics, seating, location and parking are all wrong for those functions.
More than two years ago, tightly controlled meetings were staged by pro-arena supporters to bally-hoo the proposed downtown arena. These meetings blocked real input by regular citizens such as myself.
A variety of people representing small business owners, home-owners, students, business people, downtown people, etc. now flat out don’t want the arena.
By all estimates, some 80 to 85% of Sedgwick Countians DON’T WANT THE ARENA. This computes to 145,350 voters who DON’T WANT THE ARENA.
So, politicians stop this white elephant arena NOW. Use this giant pot of money at the end of a false rainbow for the many real needed good purposes IN SEDGWICK COUNTY.
Mrage: With all due respect, your ideas on locations fail to consider many important factors.
If the casino is miraculously approved by voters, it should not be located anywhere near the “family” oriented activities such as downtown library, the Hyatt, Century II and exposition center, any USD 259 school, Lawrence-Dumont Stadium and the Arkansas River.
As far as expanding the downtown library, the best choice would be just that … expand the current library to the south into the parking lot. The current library is in easy walking distance from most of downtown Wichita. When I worked downtown, I often walked to the library during the noon hour.
The casino, if approved by voters, should be placed near “Old Town,” preferably on the arena footprint. By keeping drinkers and gamblers in the same vicinity, the police can establish a virtual cordon to control out-of-control participants.
Move the arena plan, redesign it to furnish better flexibility, and put it adjacent to the present “old gentleman,” the Kansas Coliseum. When finished, implode the Kansas Coliseum. Retain the 5,000 car free parking places and the surrounding beautiful R.V. park. Also retain easy access from the freeway.
Of course, the elephant in the china shop, is the homeless people situation. No matter how you feel about assisting the homeless, there should not be a mixture of school children visiting the library with homeless people. I understand some local homeless agencies actually bus the homeless to the library during the day for shelter and restrooms. Other arrangements must be made.
Its time to let the people of Sedgwick County to really get involved in these decisions rather than a hand full of politicians.
Century II would be an awesome spot for a Casino. I would go…heck, maybe work there, and I already have a great job.
Vegas has beautiful casinos and no violence. Kids stay in the hotels and swim.
I attended last night’s performance of High School Musical and it was FANTASTIC! MTW has, once again, done a great job of bringing this show to life. Disney only licensed this to a few theater companies; MTW was one of them. This is a world-class production.
I previously estimated that MTW brings 60,000 people to downtown Wichita; I underestimated it. The correct number is about 80,000 people for its season.
Symphony and Opera have similar seasons. Add to that Music Theater for Young People, Chorus, and other arts and you can see that Century II brings a great deal of economic stimulous to downtown Wichita. AND – these are done largely with local support and LOCAL performers.
Not only does C-II support the arts it also supports innumerable locally sponsored events – shows, conferences and the like. It is clear that C-II has a major economic impact on downtown.
There is an interesting parallel here with the story line of HSMusical – the male lead was the ‘basketball star’ but found that there is a great deal of life beyond basketball. And, that life was – GASP! – theater.
Let us hope that Wichita does not sacrifice the Arts in a short-sighted effort for a quick buck. While a C-II site for a casino might look intriguing and attractive let us FULLY EXAMINE the possible ‘unintended consequences’
Wichita has already lost the $100 million bowling tournament as a result of uncertainties about the future of Century II; let us not suffer further costs.
They are not going to turn Century II into a casino. But the Developers would like to purchase or at least lease Century II as part of their Hotel and Entertainment Complex.
People have to remember that this isn’t going to be an Indian pole barn casino like those you find across the state line in Oklahoma. We are talking about huge Hotel, Entrainment and retail complex. This isn’t about just a Casino.
The Canadian investors would like to buy the Hyatt 300+ room hotel, plus build another hotel tower that would have the same if not more hotel rooms, tear down the library and put in retail shops around there and use Century II as and entertainment venue (for which is is already). They would probably turn the convention center into the casino room.
If the Music Theater of Wichita is fearing that the people who will run Century II will kick them out, I seriously doubt it. If their shows are selling-out and plus the City will make sure that they are secured as a tenant there forever. So they shouldn’t worry.
What would the City of Wichita get out of the deal?
1. New Library and new Conviction Center with the cash proceeds from the sale of their old ones and the Hyatt and possible Century II to pay for the new ones.
2. Get out of the operating debt that is generated by operating Century II as a public facility.
3. Get out of the ownership of the Hyatt Hotel.
This Hotel and Entertainment complex will flush the city with money to build new facilities and update the downtown area.
It’s a big win for us! A one time, never to be had, opportunity that will never lend itself again.
Vegas has beautiful casinos and no violence.”Posted by: Leave | June 17, 2007 at 09:18 AM
No violence eh?
Let’s examine those statistics.
Las Vegas, the 22nd largest U.S. City had
145 homicides5725 assaultsin one year.
In the same year, Wichita the Nation’s 51st largest City had:18 Murders1437 Assaults.
Las Vegas is twice the size of Wichita in population but has eight (8) times the murder rate per year.
Las Vegas has no violence?
I think that is a non-starter.
Las VegasCity Population: 1,189,388Murder: 141Forcible Rape: 511Robbery: 3,955Aggravated Assault: 4,551Burglary: 12,782Larceny or Theft: 30,052Car Theft: 14,718Arson: 280
WichitaCity Population: 356,123Murder: 18Forcible Rape: 216Robbery: 556Aggravated Assault: 1,437Burglary: 3,825Larceny or Theft: 14,284Car Theft: 1,409Arson: 139
Population difference 3.3X
Factor in if Wichita was the size of Las Vegas:
Murders: 54Forcible rape: 713Robbery: 1,835Aggravated Assault: 4,742Burglary: 11,475Larceny or Theft: 47,137Car Theft: 4,650Arson: 459
That’s a pretty large leap of logic you have there Joe Williams. I’m sorry, but crime statistics don’t work that way.
Where did you get your creative accounting methods from? The Arena Vote and switch’em school of non-ethical economics?
Go look at Wikipedia Joe and look at the city of Los Angeles and its number of homicides (3 times the population of Las Vegas) for its population
…and see if you will want to hold to your erroneous statistical methods.
What you posted Joe Williams, is pure bilge water, not worth the time it took to type.
Continuing conversation about downtown Wichita … whose idea was it to implode the old Allis Hotel located at about Broadway and William?
Who can forget the beautiful ART DECO DESIGN of that moderately tall tower building. Probably a lot of Wichita history took place there.
I suspect the name came from Barney Allis, long-time owner of Kansas City’s great Muehlbach Hotel at 12th and Baltimore.
I recall a prominent Kansas City business man telling me that in the early 1930’s, he had a band, Bill Hutton and the Tinkerbells, an all-girl band. He claimed his group played at the opening of the Allis Hotel. I wish someone would have an old program to check this.
I presume the Allis Hotel was a going concern back in World War II days with the usual coffee shops and ballroom/convention space.
As I recall, national newsman, JimLehrer, told that his father’s one bus company had their Wichita terminal at this hotel.
I suppose someone will step forward to say the Allis Hotel contained asbestos so had to be destructed. But now days asbestos is not necessarily considered fatal in buildings … just don’t disturb it.
***********************
A problem with putting a casino in Ruffin’s building at southeast corner of Douglas and Broadway is that SRS clients could pick up their checks and take directly to the casino diagonally across the street. I will say Ruffin’s building looks solid, perhaps one of the best older buildings in downtown Wichita. Seems like a non-governmental use could be found for it.
Mrage! You keep telling us that your Arena needs corporate sponsors to step up and contribute money to make it work. Well, I have a list of possible contributors for you: The program for last nights MTW performance has quite a list of contributors who have given to the Endowment (page 32) and MTW in general (beginning on page 71). Go to the Zoo – you also see a lot of names of people and corporations who have contributed.
Perhaps these people and corporations have made their decisions of what venues are worthy of their financial support. If the Arena is not on that list then you need to figure out why not.
Joe! You claim that the City would get new facilities to replace C-II etc if they are sold. I WANT THAT SIGNED, NOTARIZED, UNDER OATH! I have been told that the representations made to me in the past were not “promises” so excuse my skepticism.
“This Hotel and Entertainment complex will flush the city with money to build new facilities and update the downtown area.” I WANT THAT IN WRITING! I WANT TO SEE THEM SWEAR ON A STACK OF BIBLES! I WANT PROMISES!
I would love to see a serious proposal for a convention/arts complex; perhaps on the West Bank of the river. However, I am NOT willing to accept vague assurances that everything will work out fine. I was given those before and they have proved false.
Lets see now…80,000 per SEASON – or 80,000 per MONTH or more.
In the Casino 2 miles south of Ark City Ive counted over 2000 cars in the lot at nite.
Then use the money for the kids as you see fit. Georgia puts ALL their money into a HOPE Scholarship and EVERY kid in Georgia with a B average goes to college FREE.
See if your politicians will belly up to the bar for that. Dont let them put the money into the general fund or it will be pissed away on other boondoggles.
mrbill – the key to the success of the casino you refer to is ease of access from the highway. That is why a location right on the Interstate makes sense. Two such sites come to mind: One in Wichita – I-135 and 21st St. Groundwater issues can be readily handled; EPA has made Brownfields a priority. Two outside of Wichita – Park City at the Coliseum and the ‘Bob Knight’ Park City site.
If the idea of the casino is to snag travellers it should be on the highway they travel.
In fact, Winfield right on the Turnpike might make even more sense.
Hey Ben,
The best spot is that big, empty lot to the east of the river, south of CII… Nothing there… Available Today
There is even a building down there – we could name it the “Gold Mine Casino” and keep the same initials.
I believe Winfield is about five miles east of the turnpike. Don’t go there often so might be mistaken.
So, I wonder if Republican is still faking a disability so that he can collect welfare benefits?
JW – I’m referring to at the Exit; not over in town.
JW, just a question…
Why didnt you spend 5 min to Google the distance between the turnpike and Winfield instad of making yourself look like an idiot?
That’s all we need, gamblers leaving a casino drunk and driving on a turnpike. Is there a saying, gamblers don’t let gamblers drive drunk … after losing their paycheck in slot machines?
Ben! We cannot be sure what will happen to what the city will do as far as Century II.
The reason is, because it’s to early to jump into the fine details yet. The Casino vote hasn’t happen. I think it’s funny that Sedgwick County jump in to ask for casino proposals for Britt Brown to be due next month?
There are reasonable preliminary interest as far as casino players. So far there is only three serious players. Bob Knight, Canadians and Ruffin.
Bob Knight! Park CityCanadians! Century II/HyattRuffin! Douglass and Broadway
We will see how many more will come out of the woodwork to a run-up before the vote, and perhaps after the vote.
I do not know what the deadline is for Casino submissions is for the Kansas Lottery. But I’m sure it’s probably within the middle of next year, but not certain.
But to be certain! Whatever Casino operation the Kansas Lottery chooses, if it happens to be Century II, there should be a demand from residents of the City of Wichita for a written promise that the city should use the funds to replace the downtown Library and Expo Hall with a comparable one and not use it for anything else. No Wal-Marts, Bowling Centers or any other cockamamie ideas coming from the Johnson County transplant name JWink.
Tell such a yes vote on the Casino can take place, we can only go off the reasonable offers that the main players for the casino are offering.
he must be on disability..he is cyberstalking my posts
but he is wrong on each case he posts on.
he is living in fantasy world…
I say he is disabled and taking some of the wacky weed
Naw lmba,
If I was cyber-stalking you, I would already had your name, address, ssn, photographs and what kind of car your drive. :)
Joe! We SHOULD be looking at the details. Not looking at the details about the Arena (parking, infrastructure, loss reserves etc) was a BIG mistake. If I vote YES in August just what would I be voting for?
I am glad that you now agree that there should be guaruntees about a replacement for C-II and the Library unlike Mrage who suggested proceeds be plowed into the Arena.
You are right about the County and Britt Brown/casino but I am not at all surprised. They need the money they could get for it by selling it as a casino. However, I wonder just what they mean when they say ‘no compete’ with the Arena. Conventions? Shows? Those all commonly happen at a casino.
Like it or not; elements of the Arena and the casino are inextricably linked. This is evidenced by the push by Wolverton for it to be downtown claiming that it will somehow support the Arena.
While I am intrigued with the Ruffin locetion (looked at it last night after MTW) I still lean toward an I-135 location.
There is no replacement of Century II.
Century II isn’t going to change. I think there is a misconception of people that the Canadian group is going to buy Century II and gut the whole place out and make it into a huge casino floor.
If they did that, it would be the largest Casino in the world. It isn’t going to be that way at all.
Century II is still going to remain the performing arts center that it is. It’s just going to have a different owner. By the way, the City of Wichita thought about having somebody else run it long before the casino idea.
For the most part, even Expo Hall is going to remain most likely, although in the preliminary plans with the Canadian group, that they may turn some of it into a parking garage. But the fine details of that hasn’t been worked out. The library is known to be bought and torn down to make way for retail shops.
So your thought that we may get another Performing Arts venue isn’t going to happen. It’s still Century II and it is still going to be that venue.
Also! I truly believe that your site selection of I-135 and 21st on the old Derby Refinery site, which is located next to one of the highest crime areas of our city is the poorest site ever. And every reasonable investor would never pick that spot. It’s never going to happen there Ben! Sorry!
If you think it’s such a hot spot. Go fetch some investors willing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars there.
SMG was hired to manage Century II? It’s not going be a casino.
Programs uneasy about performing next to a casino…have to wait for the worry to turn into panic.
3 months from the Aug. vote, casino plans have to be put forth.
Topeka isn’t choosing the casino until March of next year?
Century II Arts, settle down and play on!
I don’t how soon SMG will take over management of the building, but lets say they wait until the arena is being constructed, a few months from opening.
Or it could be next month. I have a call into SMG and will ask.
What’s the goals for Century II and events they imagine to bid for in the arena. College basketball events especially.
Maybe the Arts can exist next to a casino. Depends on noise in the building. Century II needs interior remodeling.
Who knows. SMG didn’t get management hired to run a casino in Century II.
Someday a new Convention Center could be built anywhere.
I’m not sure if the City will completely sell Century II at all.
Turning over management is not same as selling the building.
All this talk is determined by Topeka where the casino would be.
The City and County will both agree a best spot and business plan for a casino downtown.
The County won’t desire Bob Knights plan. It’s Ruffin or the Canadians.
“The County won’t desire Bob Knights plan. It’s Ruffin or the Canadians.” WHY? I think Knight’s plan gives the County more revenue.
“The City and County will both agree a best spot and business plan for a casino downtown.” Did your inside sources at the County tell you that? The same ones who told you your Arena would be 18,000 seats?
Remember, the County wants to sell Britt Brown.
“Maybe the Arts can exist next to a casino. Depends on noise in the building.” I have spoken with people in the Arts community; they have many concerns. Mrage, you may have all sorts of connections with the basketball community; my involeent is with the arts community.
” Century II Arts, settle down and play on!” And if we decide to stab you in the back too bad!
“What’s the goals for Century II and events they imagine to bid for in the arena. College basketball events especially.” What does C-II have to do with your Arena? And college basketball? WHAT college basketball?!
“have to wait for the worry to turn into panic.” Yea – lets not plan ahead! THAT’S HOW WE LOST THE BOWLING TOURNAMENT THAT YOU DON’T CARE ABOUT!
“Go fetch some investors willing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars there.” OR SUCKER THE TAXPAYERS LIKE YOU DO!
I agree, the best location is the longest shot because it does not have any vested interests behind it. It will be one of 5 sites: C-II, Ruffin, Britt Brown, Bob Knight, or Winfield. However, my location, inside the City of Wichita and right on the interstate, is the best site.
“Century II isn’t going to change.” There sure have been a lot of people proposing that – in fact that may be why we lost the $100 million bowling tournament. I’d still like to see the Arena crowd put their Arena forth as a location for that and prove its worth.
Ben,
The more I think about it, the more I like a Ruffin/Trump type facility at Ruffins building in downtown. That type of casino would be less of a “self contained” facility and would promote business and entertainment to sprout around it, i.e. old town.
The casino could offer free shuttle service into and out of old town and the rest of downtown, that i think would promote a downtown entertainment district.
Tony – good points.
Again Ben! The Bowling Congress doesn’t hold their conventions in arenas. It’s an ongoing tournament that takes 7 months to complete. People would have been here starting in January till the finals in July. It’s not that everybody comes in at once.
The pending sell of Century II had nothing to do with the decision of the Bowling Congress to not come here in 2011.
It was contract negotiations that failed. If in particular the rumor is that because we couldn’t guarantee a specific expenditures on the maintenance of Century II in 2011. But the City cannot guarantee anything forward like that by Kansas law.
But we don’t know the details. But if the failed guarantees is what killed the deal based on the City Government cannot do it, then somebody else could have done that if it were in private hands.
So keeping Century II in ownership and operation by the City might have been the one that killed the deal. Meaning that the Casino Owners could and would have saved the Bowling Tournament if it weren’t people who were steadfast in having the City own Century II in fear that Music Theater of Wichita and the Opera might get kicked out as a tenants. People like you Ben, who wants Century II left alone and in City hands.
That means you are personally responsible for killing the bowling tournament and $100 million dollars to our economy.
Yeah! I know I’m just stretching it! But hell! Isn’t that what you do all the time to projects you hate?
Still think the Intermodal Port is fiction? Make-believe Ben?
Let’s call your site, the Ghetto Casino site, because that is what it is!
I originally favored the CII proposal, but after river fest, i changed my mind. The River Fest is centered around CII and the River. If a Casino goes in, than the festival would be centered around it. I think that the loss of CII would detract from not only that event, but all events that happen at CII. I would bet that Convention business would drop, therefor money coming into the city would drop. Music theater, especially childrens would suffer because the demographic that frequent it, don’t tend to like casinos. Symphonies don’t necessarily lend themselves to casinos either.
Shock and Awe type acts, like Magicians, Singers and The Shrub tend to grace Casinos.
6:33 – “Century II isn’t going to change. … So your thought that we may get another Performing Arts venue isn’t going to happen. It’s still Century II and it is still going to be that venue.”
Uh, Joe! It was YOUR thought that C-II would change and thet we might go for a new one:
4:42 – if it happens to be Century II, there should be a demand from residents of the City of Wichita for a written promise that the city should use the funds to replace the downtown Library and Expo Hall with a comparable one and not use it for anything else.”
It is this kind of uncertainty that causes concern.
You have a point Tony. The Ruffin/Trump one is actually looking better all the time.
The synergy it can create between the WaterWalk, Old Town and the Arena Neighborhood could be a huge plus. Spread the love downtown as it be!
Plus! Developers are already planning. I hear somebody is finally going to purchase and tear down the old school on Broadway by that Wendy’s. You know! The one that is crumbling, graffiti, no windows or doors? Big eye sore!
But I’m sure JWink is going to try to “save it” for historic reasons or some bs!
Ben! There is a difference between the convention (expo hall) and Century II (performing arts hall).
Never said a damn word about replacing Century II. Expo Hall isn’t really apart of Century II, although it’s attached to it. But it was an add on they did back in the late 80’s. It’s just warehouse space.
Hey Joe,
Last check, CII was running about break even. Cant say that about the KC or your Arena, can you?
Joe! That was in the paper today about the school. I agree – the Ruffin seems the best of the downtown locations. And, I know that you will only go with a downtown location; however I tend to consider all possibilities. Looking at the Big Picture; I still wonder if a Interstate location will snag more travellers. You know, “destination” casino.
Show me the money Tony! You have the financial statements?
How will it attract more people if on the Interstate and 21st than downtown Wichita, which has short and freeway access to that location?
All traffic going through Wichita on Interstate 135 is going to go pass Kellogg!
It isn’t like there is “more” traffic on I-135 in Wichita. Actually Kellogg has more.
There is no added feature or more access to more traffic on I-135 in Wichita than it would be located Downtown.
It’s just not a good business decision.
Kellogg has commuter traffic; I don’t know that it has more ‘interstate’ traffic. the idea is to get travellers.
I vagule recall seein something that C-II was basically breaking even; I KNOW the Arena is expected to run at significant deficit. THAT I have in writing.
For overall interstate traffic the Winfield location looks attractive – catch the Turnpike traffic. But, I realize that location is fatally flawed – it is not in the WDDC area of concern.
Of course Joe, don’t want to do your own research…
CII’s Budget is 2.2 Million, Expo Hall is 856 Thousand.http://wichita.gov/NR/rdonlyres/3D4DFA49-F340-44B4-A37E-6F6789304496/0/09QualityofLife.pdf
Expo Hall is recovering 87% of their budget by their fees. CII only recovers 52% but the interesting thing is that all staffing shows up under the CII budget so the numbers are slightly skewed. Also contained within the CII was this years new WichitaTIX system that has eaten a large chunk out of the budget.
Interesting that the TOTAL BUDGETS of C-II and Exposition hall is not much greater than the anticipated DEFICITS of the Arena. THAT is why I worry about Arena deficits sucking up all the revenue.
There’s two gambling questions on the ballot:
Proposition No. 1:Shall the following be adopted?”Shall the Kansas lottery be authorized to operate a lottery gaming facility in Sedgwick County?”
Proposition No. 2:Shall the following be adopted?”Shall the Kansas lottery be authorized to place electronic gaming machines in Sedgwick County?”
I’m going to assume that #2 is what will allow Ruffin to put slots at the dog track. Is that correct? Anyone?
If so, and if it passes, wouldn’t it make more sense to put the casino off either the Turnpike or Kellogg?
Yes Tom – slots at the dogs. And yes, that would tend to favor a turnpike of downtown location for a casino.
Thanks, Ben
Actually I think the ‘racino’is a bit of an afterthought – not sure that it will amount to much. UNLESS it is the only one that passes. Remember, they are separate questions.
Tony – I think the KC was also running ‘about’ break-even.
But Ben,
I thought the KC was loosing money, thats why they had to move it downtown so it could be closer to the action…
not to mention all of the new parking fees they wanted to tack on to try to recover money being lost…
Tony – that was something Nath (I think that is the guy) told me in response to a question at one of the Arena meetings. He also acknowledged that they anticipate substantially higher operating costs at the new place.
Ben! It’s the county that supports the operation of the arena, not the city. So there is no sucking of Century II budget.
Downtown Arena replaces Britt Brown Arena. All cost associated with running Britt Brown will now go to the Downtown Arena once the doors open. Why is so phucking hard for people to understand that?
Joe,
Its not hard for us to understand that, but the problem with your assumption is that it costs the same to operate the Downtown Arena as Bit Brown. It will in fact cost more, lots more. Ben’s point is that there is hardly any money (Ben, help with the exact number please) left in the budget to make up for the difference.
Joe! I am fully aware of all of that! I am also aware that the County is having budgetary problems and that there have already been calls from Arena supporters for the City to contribute toward the Arena since (a) costs will be higher and (b) it’s downtown location “benefits” the City.
Yes, the Old Twon Arena replaces Britt Brown and the budgets will “transfer”. However, the County has already said it will be more costly to operate. Why is it so phucking hard for you to understand that more costly meane more costly? That is why the County stated clearly that they must plan for operating deficits.
Why is it so phucking hard for you to understand that when they say they need to plan for operating deficits; when they say they anticipate deficits; that probably means there likely will be deficits? Why is it so phucking hard for you to understand that if they then spend that reserve on other things that they will then have to scramble for funds to cover those operating deficits?
Tony – the representation upon which we voted had $52 million to cover parking, infrastructure, and reserve. Reserve itself was represented to be $23.6 million. Taking into account time value of money that translates to about $2 million per year on an annuity basis.
The sum total of ALL of these three items is now (Dec 2006 figures) $14.6 million. Since infrastructure and parking were originally represented to be $28.4 million that leaves pretty much nothing for reserve. ($14.6 million – $28.4 million = ‘nothing’)
Umm! Come again?
Can you show me the difference in operation cost from Britt Brown vs. the Downtown Arena?
Can you show me piles of money set aside for Britt Brown used for operation deficits?
In the original proposal the amount set aside for parking and operation and maintenance “reserves” (Not the exclusive money, but emergency contingency maintenance reserves if needed) was $23 million. This is of course they reasonably expected maybe shelling out $10 million for a huge parking garage. They know have determined that a large parking garage probably isn’t worth it.
Under the revised budget, that number is now $14 million. Hardly an evaporation, for which Ben has been making out that there is no reserve money. Which isn’t true. Yes it’s less, but there isn’t any Parking Garage. Under the original proposal after the parking garage, we would be left only with $13 million for maintenance and operation reserves.
But I guess that’s enough to kill the project and send back $201 million to the state.
Thanks Ben! Joe, care to comment?
Hey Joe, care to tell us where 12,000 cars are going to park for your sell out crowds???
Downtown!
Where else?
Ever been to a city that has a downtown arena? The parking is spread out all over the downtown area and people walk. Nobody complains, it works.
Joe! I have been in many! They all have one thing in common! TRANSIT! They all also provide parking AT the Arenas!
Hey Joe, ever been downtown during the day? Have you even bothered looking at the parking situation? there isnt enough parking for the businesses there anyway. Add another 12k cars…
Oh wait, your theory is that every business will allow anyone to use their private property to let people park on and tear it up…
This highlights an interesting difference between the true ‘urban lifestyle’ and the ’suburban lifestyle.’ By and large, we drive from our driveway to or office parking; the extent of our walking is from front door to car in driveway and then from car in parking space into office. Very little distance involved.
In the more urban environment transit is a factor. In Chicago, for example, it is a fairly decent walk from Union Station to the Sears Tower. And that gets walked each and every day; rain or shine. Many people wear tennis shoes and then change shoes at the office.
Then, at lunch time, it is another good walk over to Billygoats (”cheesbooger, fries, Pepsi no coke”) for lunch. I submit that the urban lifestyle is much healthier than our suburban one as a result.
So, you will note that Wichitans tend to eschew any shopping that doesn’t provide very convenient parking. And, I think it will be the same with the Arena.
Add to that the fact that transit is not an option as it is in those other cities.
before you say that casino’s increase the crime rate, make sure that you look at all economies that have casion’s and you will find that casino’s don’t always increase the crime rate, in fact, it has been proven to decrease crime rates, from the increase in job oppurtunities to make money leagally.
Where or where has Joe gone…
Joe, do you propose forcing all land owners in downtown Wichita to allow arena goers to park on their land?
JWink, I attended my Senior Prom at the Allis Hotel.
RD – should I ask how long ago?
;^)
Why do people think this is such a bad idea, the idea is to refurbish our downtown so that it becmes a desttination, downtown is the heart of a city, and wichita has let its downtown die, No we aren’t Chicago or KC, MO, but we can strive for higher goals instead of always looking in the hole and pointing out the negatives.l Wichita is the largest city in kansas, and is a destination shoppping locaiton for many in the state. We need to fix the current issues in the city and draw nmore here, more people = more money, which = more money to spend on fixing things that need fixed…a casino in wichita is a way of draing people that normally go to topeka, kc or Ok to gamble, putting all that revenue here, allowing us to use it for things that ned to be done, the arena is an excellent idea, what big cities do you know that don’t have an arena downtown? by demolishing the britt brown arena, the management costs are effectively moved to the arena downtown.
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Posted July 5, 2007 at 2:42 pm | Permalink
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