The health insurance industry and Congress had better brace themselves: Michael Moore’s "Sicko" movie is coming out later this month. It may end up being over the top and a bit misleading at times — like his other films, many would say — but the trailer is pretty funny.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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Even Fox News gave the movie a positive review.
Moore, misleading and over-the-top? Say it ain’t so . . . . .
His other movies haven’t been . . . well, yea, they have. Moore’s a liar, who believes that his cause is just so the lies are justified. Is this just more of the same? Probably.
You’ll have to get by without my dollars, Michael.
Unlike Bush and the 28 percent, Moore’s films are backed up by evidence.
When you’ve got the head of the NRA Charlton Hesston making an ass of himself and walking out of an interview, you can’t really blame Moore for what Hesston said.
But still the 28 percenters do.
I watched the trailer, and it is indeed pretty funny.
The US should take great pride in the fact that we are ranked ahead of SLOVAKIA in health care.
Yeah, in-your-face, Slovakia.
The only place that has state-of-the-art 100 percent government paid for health care in the US?
Guantanemo Prison.
Moral: if you need a cat scan and can’t pay for it, join al-Qaeda.
We do not have ‘health care’ in America; we have ’sick-fix.’ I do not place 100% blame on Bush or anyone else; we are ALL part of the problem. I eat my cheeseburgers and then ask my DR for a pill to take care of my cholesterol. And, our insurance system that has developed over the decades tends to pay for the ‘fix’ but not for much prevention.
They don’t even pay for a fix anymore….they won’t cure anything because they know they’ll lose money on it if they do.
Think about all the advances in medicine….we CURED things back in the earlier days. When was the last time you heard of a cure for ANYTHING.
Pmom, I’d say death would cure everything, including life. :)
But I guess, it’s also a swing on philosophy toward less certainty. Just my personal take.
They can’t even diagnose today! You are more likely to hear what was ruled out than have your “problem” identified. It seems if you go to the doctor you are assured of visiting at least two other doctors / testing facilities and finally ending up with a prescription that “MAY” help (or disguise) the symptoms. I call this a spreading of the wealth while avoiding accountability / responsibility. Oh, and the prescription that works best won’t be covered by your insurance as it’s on their proprietary list. So if you want them to actually pay any part of the cost they get to decide which medicine you will take, NOT your doctor (who has actually seen you and examined you).
I’ll watch it! I like Micheal Moore’s documentaries. Although I though Fahrenheit 9/11 sucked really bad. His worse ever.
But the others, like Roger and Me, Bowling for Columbine and TV Nation were all great.
From what I read, Sicko is pretty much unbiased. He left his leftist Democrat agenda aside for the most part and took an hard look at our current health system, which was crafted by Senator Ted Kennedy and the whole HMO fiasco that Ted created. So he criticizes Democrats for getting it wrong.
Yes, let’s all hope for Socialized medicine like Canada has. An ever increasing bite out your wallet and then…
Because of long waiting lists and the Canadian government control of who gets what when, many Canadians are having to buy – wait for it…
HEALTH INSURANCE!
How’s that working out Canada? :)
Socialized medicine is not the answer. Today’s HMOs are not the answer either. Doctors have a time limit with you because of all the patients they cram in. Like Linda posted, I think the Dr.s are using the buddy system and bulking up the daily patient roster to collect insurance fees.
I think that the buddy system is also in place because of all the frivolous law suits. To revamp the health care system, the lawsuits need to come into play.
As an aside, there is a judge – (Yup a JUDGE) suing a dry cleaners for over 50 million over a pair of lost pants. Lawsuit happy nation.
How’s THAT workin for you America?
I agree, when a Lawyer takes 40 to 60% of awards granted there is something wrong..when lawyers make more money than doctors there is a problem.. but socialized medicine, has been proven to be a failure the world over.. so time to try something else..
I am interested in seeing the movie and I hope many others do too. Health care is, I feel, the biggest problem in America today. The current state of the Amercian health care system is poor at best.
Regardless of your personal feelings about Michael Moore, Canada, and ’socialized’ health care, we all should be willing to admit it is the top problem needing attention in our country.
Hopefully this movie will bring that to light.
The “long lines” myth of Canadian health care never dies.
Believe it when you see it in a medical journal.
Actually when you look at the medical journals, you find that Canadians coming to the US to “avoid the lines” is a bunch of sh*t.
It’s Americans who are going to Canada for the much cheaper drug prices for the same drugs . . .
*****http://healthypolicy.typepad.com/blog/2006/04/canada_health_c.html
Here’s the summary findings from an exhaustive survey by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD):
The health system in France is regarded as delivering high quality services, with freedom of choice and generally no waiting lists for treatments.–Page 69, sourced to a 2000 study by a trio of academics
And: In Germany, “Waiting lists and explicit rationing decisions are virtually unknown.”–Page 70, citing a World Health Organization study.
http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/abstract/21/3/19?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=phantoms+in+the+snow&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT
Phantoms In The Snow: Canadians’ Use Of Health Care Services In The United States
Steven J. Katz, Karen Cardiff, Marina Pascali, Morris L. Barer and Robert G. Evans
“To examine the extent to which Canadian residents seek medical care across the border, we collected data about Canadians’ use of services from ambulatory care facilities and hospitals located in Michigan, New York State, and Washington State during 1994–1998. We also collected information from several Canadian sources, including the 1996 National Population Health Survey, the provincial Ministries of Health, and the Canadian Life and Health Insurance Association. Results from these sources do not support the widespread perception that Canadian residents seek care extensively in the United States. Indeed, the numbers found are so small as to be barely detectible relative to the use of care by Canadians at home.”
*****
But I the citing of actual facts won’t stop the reich-wing for justifying the RATIONED health-care we have here–rationed on the basis of wealth, of course.
Wealthier people are the better people. They deserve to be kept alive. Everybody else can just die.
The reich-wing takes this as an article of faith . . .
And by golly, we’re still better than SLOVAKIA . . . say what you will, that can’t take that away from us!
The Five Myths of Socialized Medicine.http://www.cato.org/pubs/catosletter/catosletterv3n1.pdf
Would someone kindly point out to me what was a lie in this trailor?
Oh,inconvenient turths = lies to conservatives – should have known that one.
And Capn, I think it was Slovenia we’re ahead of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenia
Hey, at least we’re ahead of a newly emerging east European country that had been part of Yugoslavia until 1991.
Let us look at health outcomes in those countries with socialized medicine. The English are in better health than we are. Could this be related to other factors, like the English are less adverse to walking than are we? – I am sure that could have some influence.
I say let’s get the facts before eliminating alternatives like socialized medicine. I believe there would be fairly wide spread support for a single payer system. Businesses are wanting to get out of the health care insurance business. Given this latter, it will be happening sonn.
Capn:
I actually agree with you. Health care is ALWAYS rationed, no matter what system you have. It must be, it’s a good/service with a limited supply. The only question is on what basis it is rationed, and who makes that decision.
Now, it’s rationed on the basis of ability to pay, for most of us. Many others pass their health care costs on to those of us with insurance/ability to pay by using ER’s or only seeking treatment when the condition is serious, preventing most hospitals from turning them away. In most of those cases, the hospital will never recover those costs, so they are passed on to those who can pay. In a real sense, then, those with insurance are subsidizing those without now.
“Socialized medicine” will ration care, too. It will simply make those rationing decisions via a state agency, based upon some guideline/standard of care to be applied, created by a government bureaucracy. In a real sense, that’s happening now, of course, except it’s usually insurance companies making those decisions. Nothing really changes, except which bureaucracy will decide.
To be blunt, in the current political climate, I have no faith in Congress’ ability to craft a workable system. EITHER PARTY. I have even less faith in the federal bureaucracy’s ability to manage such a system. These are the same people, keep in mind, who brought us $800 hammers.
There needs to be reform, certainly. And I’m not smart enought to know all the answers; I’m not even sure I know the right question to ask.
But be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
Cato institute the home of John Bircher Libertarians – real objective source there. Scroll on by…
You’d think someone living off of tax dollars would know better than siting Cato.
Another example of “if I conservative need welfare that is different than some bum living on the dole.”
Cato institute the home of John Bircher Libertarians – real objective source there. Scroll on by…Posted by: Steven Davis | June 07, 2007 at 12:29 PM
Or one could give a thoughtful, mature critique of the article and actually explain what their position is or isn’t.
Agree with your last post, GMC. Do you think the current system of health care rationing is working?
I think now in this country healthcare is being rationed based too much upon the interests of soul-less corporations. Which I suspect is the point of Moore’s movie.
Can our government create a system that will work? I don’t know either, but others have managed to.
GMC–
I didn’t ask you to agree with me.
Do you really think your ‘opinion’ matters in the least? Get over yourself, and get a life. Or find a new play buddy.
When I play, I’ll pick the playground.
. . . .
Oh wait, I can’t say that because I’m not manly enough . . . or something.
Hehehe . . .
Foolish pride, is all that he has left, so let him hide, the tears and the sadness we gave him, when we said goodbye…..
Walk on by, and walk on by, and walk by
“In free societies, individuals decide what medical treatments or health supplements are appropriate for them.”
Ron Paul 2008
LOL, WSC, LOL!
We already have socialized health care in this country. But these Health Management Organization and the way we use Insurance Companies to act as a middleman for health care is so way off base. It isn’t close to capitalism.
But having government do everything with health care will royally screw it up. That is not something we need. The only reason why many leftist and Democrats think it is a good idea, because they actually believe that under what they want system, health care is free.
It isn’t free! We all will pay for it, but instead of you paying for your own, you will be paying for everybody else and you will not pocket any more money from our current system to nationalized health care. Unless you don’t work and under the goverments care to begin with.
Insurance should be for emergency and chronic care. Not for routine doctor visits, standard birth deliveries, cosmetic or sex reassignment surgery, and perscriptions.
The reason why health care insurance is so high, because everything that is considered “care” is included into the health insurance.
I like how a doctor is doing it here in Wichita who’s been advertising his services. $20 for 10 minutes of his time. And other health care organizations that are now starting to bypass health insurance requirements and targeting the people who don’t have the. Called; Pay-per-service, and it’s all reasonable cost. Not $1,000+ a month like what a standard health care plan is under an employer who provides it to their employees.
“The only reason why many leftist and Democrats think it is a good idea, because they actually believe that under what they want system, health care is free.”
That is absolutely not true, Joe. The reason that the Left wants some sort of universal health care is twofold……
One, in the richest nation on Earth, no one should go without health care.
Two, preventative medicine is much more effective and much less expensive that medicine that only addresses the issue after the fact.
You, unlike a previous thread, Capn, have actually TAKEN a position on this issue. Nor did I phrase the “question” in a “do you still beat your wife” form. So take your false affront and stupid pretensions and, to be blunt, shove it. Act like an ass, you’ll be treated same.
And Steven, I’m not convinced that replacing a soul-less corporation with a soul-less government bureaucracy is an improvement. If I don’t like my insurance company’s treatment of me, I may have the option of finding other carriers. Put the state in charge, and that option disappears. You’re stuck, one size fits all.
How successful “socialized medicine” has been in other places depends on what your goal for the system is. Basic care for all, or extraordinary care, when called for, for those who need it. Given the costs of extraordinary care, will that have to be sacrificed, at least in some cases, to pay for basic care for all? At what point does the State say that additional treatment for the elderly, for example, is not cost effective?
Two facts we have to face: one, much of our health care problem is our own doing, with lifestyle and diet choices. You can’t eat like a farmer and sit in front of a screen all day and expect the best of health.
Second, let’s not kid ourselves: a single payer system will not end inequities in the system, as those with money will continue to get the best care, out of their own pockets, as they do now.
A major point made in “Sicko” is that many health insurance companies in America are driven by profits. “As they say very clearly in the film, the more care they provide, the less profit they make,” Michael says.
“The law demands and requires that a corporation like a health insurance company maximize the profits for the shareholders, and if they don’t do that, they’re violating the law. … If they are required by law to make a profit, and the only way they can make a profit is by denying claims or cutting people off of their insurance or never taking them on in the first place, then that’s not good for us.”
While Michael says political action is necessary to fix the problems in the health insurance industry, he does not want the issue itself to be seen as political. “It’s not a partisan issue. It’s not Democrat or Republican,” Michael says. “When you get sick, you get sick. The illness doesn’t care if you’re a Democrat or a Republican.”
And, while some people think that having socialized medicine is un-American, Michael says we already have similar government-funded institutions in this country, such as fire departments, police departments and public schools. “We don’t expect the fire department to turn a profit. It would be an appalling thought,” Michael says. “And the reason we don’t is because it’s a life and death issue. Well, healthcare is a life and death issue. And that’s why turning a profit…that has to be removed from the system.”
The only thing that will change in the Socialized medicine is nothing.. those that can’t pay will continue not to pay.. and get medical care.
One big problem with the system as it exists today is that the uninsured aften get what care they do in the most expensive manner possible – the Emergency Room. Also, since the ailment has festered it is often orders of magnitude more exoensive to deal with.
Consider, for example, a common sore throat/ear ache in a child. I can take the kid to the DR, get the prescription filled, and end it for under a hundred bucks (total cost to the ’system’). On the other hand, allow it to fester and spread and go to the ER and you often end up with a hospital stay and the cost can be in the tens of thousands. And, all too often, the outcome is adverse.
Not too long ago I raed about a kid who died of a brain infection (after an extended hospital stay). The cause: dental work that was not done.
There has to be a better way.
And, Ben, while our insurance companies have negotiated lower prices, the uninsured are charged more for the same service at the same place. They have no insurance “write off.”
GMC–
“Shove it?”
Way to keep the dialogue at a thoughtful and elevated level.
Dishing it out but not taking it . . . yup, that’s the RepubliCON way.
They should change their mascot from an elephant to this, since pig-headedness is their defining feature:
(\____/)/ 6__6 \( (oo) )`-.~~.-’
You picked the fight, Capn. I didn’t.
This guy ‘gets it’
lewrockwell.com/paul/paul339.html
If we could come up with a non-coercive single-payer system, run by actual practicing doctors instead of politicians or time-serving bureaucrats, I could get behind it.
But I will always object to any coercive system, and to any system run by politicians or time servers.
If we could come up with a non-coercive single-payer system, run by actual practicing doctors instead of politicians or time-serving bureaucrats, I could get behind it.
But I will always object to any coercive system, and to any system run by politicians or time servers.
linda – absolutely!
To say “We are the richest nation on earth and nobody should be without health care”
That is so superficial. So if we weren’t rich, it is ok NOT to have people covered for health care?
There isn’t a soul in America that is without health care. Everybody poor person in the nation is covered under some government plan, either Federal or State or a mixture of both. Middle class people have it through their employers and if not, can get it through the state. Rich people don’t need insurance as they can cover themselves out-of-pocket.
Does what we have is perfect? No! Will we ever get there where everybody is happy? No! But to say the USA’s medical system sucks is not the truth. We have the best medical care in the world.
But we can tweak it to make it more affordable than it is now.
“But to say the USA’s medical system sucks is not the truth.”
Did I say that, Joe?
No.
I said that we could do a lot better, especially in terms of preventative medicine.
That is the point. You can’t go to the ER and get a flu shot. You can’t go to the ER and have your blood pressure checked. You can’t go to the ER and have that lump checked out.
After it becomes a problem, then you can go to the ER.
Wouldn’t it be better for all concerned to have issues addressed before they became a problem?
And, there are 43 million Americans without health insurance – and they are not all rich. Many fall between the cracks of not well off enough and not poor enough or not old enough.
“You can’t go to the ER and get a flu shot.You can’t go to the ER and have your blood pressure checked.You can’t go to the ER and have that lump checked out.”
That’s why they call it the EMERGENCY ROOM.
All of the above are standard CLINICAL procedures. Schedule an appointment at the Clinic Desk please.
Another thing they don’t tell you about Canadians coming to the USA is the fact that the government of Canada SENDS patients to the USA as a COST SAVING meausre and as a convenience to the patient. For example they send people with specialized cases and MRI patients to Detroit because it is actually CHEAPER than maintaining specialist and equipment in the much smaller city of Windsor Ontario and much closer for the patient than sending him to Toronto. Same thing with Niagra Falls and Buffalo NY. But the lying CONS make you think that these Canadians are fleeing in fear across the border for superior care that is not available in Canada. That would be like me saying “oh MRI patients are fleeing Marietta Georgia for Atlanta because the healthcare in Marietta is so bad”. All total bullshit and as somebody with experience – although limited- with the Canadian health system, I had NO problems with it. Showed up a clinic on Saturday at 3PM, plucked down $50 US and was treated promptly and professionally and given a prescription after the doctor cleaned out an infected ear. And to think I was actually going to suffer with the pain until I came back to the USA 3 days later!
“That is the point. You can’t go to the ER and get a flu shot. You can’t go to the ER and have your blood pressure checked. You can’t go to the ER and have that lump checked out.”
What is needed in a series of clinics- or Urgent Care Clinics- that are open 7 days a week extended hours- like 9 to 9. People would go to these as opposed to the ER and the ER triage nurse would have the authority to do an initial check and, if in his opinion the patient was not at risk for loss of life or major bodily function, the triage nurse would have the authority to REFUSE the patient and refer them to a clinic or their own doctor. ERs should be for life and limb threats only.
And you CAN go to any neighbourhood fire station and have your blood pressure checked for FREE!
We need a National Healthcare System. It should be based on a “public-private” model where the national system would pay for all expenses over a set amount- like maybe $3000- in a 12 month period and the patient or his insurance company would pay for all expenses under that amount. The national system would also pay for 1 annual physical, mamogram and a bi annual colon exam to catch problems early when it cost less to fix and the patient is more likely to live. One way to help fund it is to raise taxes on things like cigarettes and transfats and fatty high colestrhol foods that cause so many health problems. And maybe hard liquor too.
Kev, don’t know if you live in Wichita, but the Wichita Clinic offers immediate care. This is from their Website. They have pretty good hours too, but you can see that for yourself at their Website.
Wichita Clinic Immediate Care is a time-saving and lower cost alternative than the nearest emergency room — 364 days of the year. An integral part of the Wichita Clinic family, the Immediate Care department provides urgent care on a walk-in basis. With four board certified physicians, wait times are usually minimal.
Wichita Clinic Immediate Care accepts most insurances.
We treat non-life or limb threatening problems including, but not limited to:
• Sore Throats• Colds & Coughs• Chest Congestion• Abdominal Pain• Asthma• Sprains & Strains• STDs• Minor Lacerations• Rashes• Nausea & Vomiting• Ear Infections• Animal Biteshttp://www.wichitaclinic.com/
You are so full of it Joe. I’ve needed an MRI on my back for over 5 years now- but why do it when I can’t fix the symptoms anyway.
I also had lumps in my neck that I was waiting to check out till I got insurance. Got tired of fretting finally and went in and had the CT. I have grossly enlarged adenoids causing the swellings in my neck. But I can’t do anything about it.
I sure hope it’s not cancer, but they don’t THINK it is- a biopsy would cost too much. So I guess when I either die or it eats into another part of my body, I have to live with it. Surgery to remove the adenoids would be too much for me out of pocket.Of course, when I’m on hospice for it, then I’ll be able to get govt to help with it.
There was a woman whose job I took who died at 50 for the same reason. No insurance, she was full up of cancer because she didn’t get the initial symptoms checked out. Might I also add, it’s far cheaper to treat cancer found early.
Easy for Republicon to say, he at least gets to go to the VA when he has a problem…even if the care is substandard and delayed. I bet his delay isn’t five years.
We do have the best medical care in the world…FOR THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD IT. But overall, Americans are suffering. That is undeniable.
Con, you have to qualify for the lower care costs. For instance, when I tried for a local reduced clinic… My husband was the only one working, making 12 an hour, with 4 family members. We didn’t qualify for reduced services.
I was so incredibly sick I couldn’t stand it. I wont’ incriminate myself to say how I finally got help.
Yeah PMom, hate me for the Medical Care I have, everyone else does. :D
I still buy supplemental health insurance out of my own pocket, because not all things are covered and even though I have the best military insurance (TriCare Prime) it does have a Cap on what it will cover and there is a co-pay if I am referred to a Civilian Doctor.
I suppose everyone thinks that retired/ex military are a bunch of freeloaders and don’t deserve any benefits.
At least on the Liberal Left they do.
Let me spread the word to those at Walter Reed that the folks in Wichita don’t think military should get medical benefits. They’ll just to hop around on stubs and borrow their neighbors pooch for a seeing eye dog.
dam disabled veterans, always got their hand out.
Political Mom, those are fatty non-malignant tumors. Just need to get off your fat lazy socialist liberal ass and get some exercise.
And quit eating those twinkies!
Way to uncalled for TT.
Is that short for: The Troll?
Apparently TT went to the Bill Frist School of Medicine – he can diagnose from miles away without even seeing the patient.
TT, I already gave away the Blog’s Dumbest Post Award today, but you would have won easily if the voting had not already closed.
Come back tomorrow – I am sure that you will be in the running.
And Joe, TT stands for Totally ‘Tupid.
You know, I really enjoy a few of the posters here, top pick would be GMC70. It’s too bad many of the discussion are interrupted or even ended by those who’s primary choice in life is to spew flames.
I came here recently, liked the uncensored and user friendly format, and the opporunity to share knowledge in the world of ideas.
Many, including myself have some strong opinions, and mistakes are made by all – including me.
The flames seem to be burning out the interesting dialogue and ruining this blog. Some flames can be tolerated, but the obessive constant flamers really pour so much crap onto this blog it becomes unreadable.
Continued flaming will lead to some leaving this forum, and may also lead to the Eagle’s censoring of the blog, and who could blame them?
I was interested in this story and hearing some different points of view on how to constructively improve our health care system while reducing the rate of future health care increases.
Maybe this blog is just a reflection of our government or the government is just a reflection of us. If a few people on this blog can’t have a civil, intelligent dialogue, then how can we expect our government to do any better?
Jeez, Max, try one of the threads about evolution or the War on Iraq if you want to see some fireworks.
I have been called every name in the book, from A to Z.
And that is just my friends.
Welcome to WE Blog, home of the nastiest bloggers West of the Mississippi.
And, yeah, before someone else says it, I can be the nastiest of the nasty when provoked.
BG, how is socialized medicine a failure, I’ll give you a $1000 for every legitimate example you can provide.
The bottom line is this, health care will improve, and costs be driven down when Wal-Mart throws their hat in the ring. In it’s present state, it is a racket. Insurance companies are the top investors in pharmacuticals, and medical realated industries, so they get the $$ coming and going. Then they blame it all on mal-practice, which truely is a problem, but not the whole problem.
“And, yeah, before someone else says it, I can be the nastiest of the nasty when provoked.”
Posted by: WSClark | June 07, 2007 at 11:17 PM
WSClark’s idea of provocation if someone else has an opposing view.
And a one and a two……
Walk on by……………
Tip toe on bye…
Tip toe on byeeee….
FF,”BG, how is socialized medicine a failure, I’ll give you a $1000 for every legitimate example you can provide.”
Socialized medicine is a failure because it destroys that wonderful profit margin all those giant corporations now depend on to pay their CEO’s! Cashier’s check, please.