Hopefully, Leonard Pitts won’t receive any death threats for his column in today’s Eagle (see blog item below). It raises an issue similar to that of the blog itemRandy did last week on how liberals are calling themselves "progressives" because it has less baggage. Pitts cites a report released this month, aptly called "The Progressive Majority: Why a Conservative America Is a Myth," that argues that opinion polls show that most Americans lean liberal. For example, 62 percent oppose overturning Roe, 61 percent support stem cell research and 60 percent want more gun control. "By what trick, con job or bamboozlement," Pitts wondered, "does a nation that supports gun control, abortion rights and stem cell research believe itself to be conservative?"
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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105 Comments
I think the majority is neither liberal nor conservative. Rather, we tend to be (a) midddle-of-the-road and (b) varied on different issues.
Because those poll numbers, like most poll numbers, are deeply misleading. They assign general terms to complex issues. Yes, a majority of Americans would not ban all abortions, but if you break it down to abortion under what circumstances, those numbers go down dramatically.
Yes, a majority of Americans favor “more gun control.” Most have no idea how tightly guns are controlled now, nor how lax the enforcement of current law is; break it down to what is current law and what is proposed, and watch those numbers fall.
And stem cell research, like a number of other issues (immigration springs to mind) does not fall neatly on ‘liberal-conservative’ lines.
Moreover, there is a disconnect between what people say in polls, and what voters do when they vote. Polls count for zilch; votes count. Who will show up on election day? Further, any politician who sticks his finger in the wind to follow polls in making policy isn’t fit to hold office.
So you can keep your poll numbers. Liars, damn liars, and statisticians . . . . .
GMC – well put.
GMC – well stated hard to improve on that.
I might emphasize that most of the yap about Polls does not reflect at all of who actually votes. There is a distinct disconnect on what Polls state and who does the voting.
Many of those polled likely don’t care that much about those issues. But the “trick” is the vocal mobilization of the conservative activist minority on those issues, and the ability of conservative politicians to use the media to pull the wool over the eyes of the uncaring masses (such as with abortion–the liberal politicians never even bother to mention that abortion numbers tend to rise under conservative government and go down under liberal ones, due to complex factors related to social services that they find too difficult to sum up in a bumper sticker).
Oversimplification is the key to election in this country (and talking like a hick from French Lick, apparently). Just look at the excitement over Fred Thompson–what has he done?? A former senator with a reputation for laziness!! But hey, he’s good with the one-liners and talks like a down-homer, so let’s elect him!
Apparently the general public is so disinterested that it has decided that its leaders must also be so disinterested, so intellectually lazy, that they too see everything in a massively simple bumper sticker, black-and-white, “with-us-or-agin’-us” mentality and language.
GMC,Of course polls can be slanted whatever way the pollster wishes, but then they get less accurate results.The good pollsters work hard to make theirs accurate, and they usually are; that’s why they get the big, big money!
The majority of people are progressive but the majority of the media is conservative. When the people are well informed they can make well informed decisions. However the conservative media limits information (hence all the mass coverage of Paris Hillbilly) or simply puts out false information (Fox News).
Those answers are drawn from trick questions: IE. Do you want less criminals to have easy access to guns….yes
Do you want nobody , except government to have guns ?……No
Have you stop beating your wife latley?….
We live in a Constitutional Republic.
We do NOT live in a pure Democracy, thank God!
What matters is voter intensity.
The truth is, the public knows VERY little about the abortion issue, the gun issue or stem cell research.
Of those who really care about those issues, and VOTE based on those issues, Conservatives win, hands down.
That is how Federalism works. That is how a republic works.
Opinion polls on these issues are pretty worthless:
Ask: “Do you think human embryos should be created for the sole purpose of biological research?”You will get a resounding “NO” as the response. — Yet the fanatics on the left of this issue would support such an outcome wholeheartedly.
Ask: Do you know where most “stem cell research” success is taking place, either in embryonic cells or adult cells?” Most of the public won’t know, since the liberal press won’t tell them.
Ask, “Should tax-payers subsidize late-term abortions on teenagers without their parents knowledge or consent?” You will get another resounding “NO.”
The left has been willfully dishonest about what current abortion law really says. Roe V. Wade and Doe V. Bolton, taken together, really DON’T allow much restriction of abortion, even in the 9th month, if you listen to the left. (Just look what happened when the Supreme Court upheld restrictions on Partial Birth Abortion. The left went nuts on that one, saying that Roe and Doe protected infanticide!)
Gun laws, also, are not completely understood by the public at large.
The 2nd Amendment CLEARLY grants an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT to keep and bear arms. The Left does not tell the public the truth on this issue.
We have a leftist, irresponsible press that does an awful job of informing the public on important issues.
We have a public which answers loaded opinion polls based on inaccurate propaganda from the left.
Even after all of that, the Democrats won a majority in Congress by recruiting what kind of person?
The Democrats recruited Pro-Life Democrats supported by the NRA!
That is HOW the Democrats won.
This is also WHY the Democrats can’t lead.
They are a house divided.
Democrat leadership clearly understands that pro-abortion, pro-gun-control liberalism will cost them the majority in Congress.
I give Democrat leaders more credit than I give the media.
The liberal media can’t get the facts right, and they obviously can’t count.
Qusetions should be careful to avoid a “wishful answer.”
Questions should also be spelled correctly.
“Qusetions should be careful to avoid a “wishful answer.”
Posted by: Ed Friedemann | June 25, 2007 at 01:50 PM
Wisest statement you ever made Ed, regardless of the spelling. :)
“liberal politicians never even bother to mention that abortion numbers tend to rise under conservative government and go down under liberal ones, due to complex factors related to social services that they find too difficult to sum up in a bumper sticker).”
FactCheck.org disputes this myth, liberal politicians certainly do perpetuate it, this entry explains the myth’s beginning and maintenance.
http://www.factcheck.org/society/the_biography_of_a_bad_statistic.html
I have found that the things I would like to believe are not always true.
DougThe media is conservative?
Any credibility you ever had was just lost on that whopper!
The VAST majority of journalists are Democrats.
PBS, run with TAXPAYER money, is absolutely liberal:http://www.mediaresearch.org/BozellColumns/newscolumn/2007/col20070502.asp
MSNBC, I believe, just did a report on the number of reporters who gave money to liberal causes. The New York Times recently quit carrying an “ethicist” column, because the author was “outed” as a contributor to “Moveon.org”>
Doug, I know you are an activist.
Can’t you figure out how to be a liberal activist without looking like an idiot?
Yes, the “right” has Limbaugh, we have BALANCE in Fox News, and we have several conservative columnists.
Other than that, where “Hard News” is concerned, or Broadcast News, the Media is radically to the LEFT of the American people!
Gee, Econ, what’s the problem? You have a “conservative majority” despite the hoodwinking from the liberal media (Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, the Washington Times, the National Review, the Wall Street Journal, Rupert Murdoch, Christian Broadcast Network, Clear Channel, Cal Thomas, George Will, Pat Buchanan, Robert Novak, David Brooks, William Safire, William F. Buckley, Bill O’Reilly, Joe Scarborough, Dinesh D’Souza, The Weekly Standard, The Drudge Report, the American Enterprise Institute, the CATO Institute, the Heritage Foundation, Focus on the Family, ABC, CBS, NBC)?
How did that conservative majority happen if all the sheep are being misled by all that liberal media?
delsol, do you want us to really list all the Liberal Media? :)
“Yes, the “right” has Limbaugh, we have BALANCE in Fox News, and we have several conservative columnists.
Other than that, where “Hard News” is concerned, or Broadcast News, the Media is radically to the LEFT of the American people!”
Econ, that’s just bunk. Rupert Murdoch is demonstrably right of center and controls half the world. Many of the things you are thinking of, it appears, are actually media “outlets” that ignores that media “news” is generated and controlled by institutes funded by monied individuals and extreme right-wing head cases, like the CATO institute, funded initially by our own Charles G. Koch.
Paul, apparently you have never heard of corporations and editors. Come back when you get a clue about how the real world actually operates.
Ben?
>So you can keep your poll numbers. Liars, damn liars, and statisticians
>GMC – well put.
You overuse polls to prove points.
The media loves Gonzo.Attorney general wins “sitting duck award” 56 minutes ago
PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) – U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales won American newspaper columnists’ annual “Sitting Duck Award” for being an easy target.
ADVERTISEMENT”This is our way of saying thanks for the low-hanging fruit,” said Samantha Bennett, vice president of the National Society of Newspaper Columnists and Pittsburgh Post-Gazette columnist.
Gonzales was widely ridiculed for his appearance before the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee in April to answer questions about the firing of eight U.S. attorneys amid accusations they had been dismissed for political reasons.
Asked to explain his role in the firings, Gonzales said, “I don’t recall” or “I have no recollection” 64 times, inviting criticism from even Republican senators, one of whom, Tom Coburn, called for his resignation.
Mike Argento, president of the society, explained Gonzales’ selection, “We gave it to him but we can’t remember why.”
The Justice Department did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment on Monday.
Previous winners have included political commentator Ann Coulter, who was recognized in 2006 for “cheapening political discourse in America” and former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in 2004.
Republican , I know that there are a lot of liberal media outlets, and I don’t deny that the Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, and CNN are three among many, for example.
But I am really tired of the argument that liberals somehow control information in this country. My list is only a way of illustrating only a small part of how many conservative media figures there are.
Considering how much money and power conservatives have, don’t you think they would have used it to start influencing media and poular opinion?
Of course they have.
…and if they haven;t, they are even more stupid than I would have believed.
So Econ, are conservatives so stupid that they have not figuured out ways to influence and control the media?
Are you saying that liberals have outsmarted, out-moneyed, outnumbered, and out-policied conservatives in the very important arena of the flow and nature of information?
Of course you aren’t.
You are only rotely, unthinkingly, dishonestly following the line you have been fed by Newt Gingrich and the party wonks back in the 1990s, because you know, as did they, that dismissing the media as “biased” makes it much easier to dismiss or uphold anything you want to the public–to manipulate them and the press.
Just like saying that an investigation is “pure politics” or “political theater”–must not be real because it’s biased!
So Delsol, you are not one of those who will dismiss investigations or reporting from Fox news because it must not be real, it;s from FOX?
I see this partly as a problem of Definition.
What is a Conservative? What is a Liberal?
Instead of worrying so much about one label or the other, it may be more helpful to enumerate your Top 10 views.
Though I think there are at least 2 distinct views, I also think we have more in common then the divisive media would lead us to believe.
I agree with those who have said most of us are in the middle and each of us probably has issues where our thinking would fall to the right on some and to the left on others.
This reminds me of something one of my favorite “liberal” posters once said. Tracy was talking to a group of self-professed liberals when he told us we wouldn’t be able to agree on where to have lunch if he was buying. True, although I’d try harder if I knew he was buying!
conservatives are nothing but rich cronies who got there by cheating and crawling up the backs of every day Americans. I can not imagine why middle class people continue to put faith in the very group that screws them daily
“So Delsol, you are not one of those who will dismiss investigations or reporting from Fox news because it must not be real, it;s from FOX?”
NO!!!!! Even Fox and the National Review are right sometimes.
and rich liverals like George Soros are? HAHAHAHAH!
The matrix is real.
delsol
The vast majority of journalism school graduates are liberal Democrats.
The vast majority of broadcast news reporters and anchors are Democrats.
The vast majority of print newspaper reporters are Democrats.
The vast majority of weekly news magazine reporters are Democrats.
Delsol,
Thank you for your honest answer.
Pitts was exactly right-on.
The American people are much more LIBERAL than even most liberal politicians.
They want an end to the war for instance. They want affordable health care, even if the gov’t has to run it. Most Americans even support gay marriage.
The trouble is that most Americans live in East and West Coast “ghettos” where their voting power is diluted by the electoral system.
Montana for instance is represented by two Senators and the entire population isn’t even a bourough of New York City.
Get used to it, CONs. America isn’t blue or red. It is RURAL vs. URBAN.
And urban is winning, big time.
I’ll take your george soros and raise you a rupurt murdock…
I hate repukesI eat them for breakfast and spit them out before I crush lumpballs shriveled ones
Econ, besides spouting generalizations that I doubt you can prove in fact, you have completely missed my poin ty about the control and creation of information.
If you continue to hold your position that the media is a liberal stronghold, I guess you will also have to admit the inferiority and ineptitude of conservatives when it comes to influencing the media. WHY, Econ, are conservatives so willing to let liberals contaminate the airwaves with their bile?
“my poin ty”hee hee
have to laugh at my typos sometimes.
“I hate repukesI eat them for breakfast and spit them out before I crush lumpballs shriveled ones” – leave my body alone
Is there a law against blogging under the influence?
I hate repukesI eat them for breakfast and spit them out before I crush lumpballs shriveled ones
Posted by: leave my body alone | June 25, 2007 at 02:47 PM
There folk, you have it. The party, or philosphy, of hate, from his own lips.
think the majority is neither liberal nor conservative. Rather, we tend to be (a) midddle-of-the-road and (b) varied on different issues.
Posted by: Ben | June 25, 2007 at 12:41 PM
I think this is probably the most accurate of assessments of today’s citizenry. They are harder to assess, at any given moment, than in the past. Generic questions get generic answers. Some people are pro-choice, pro second amendment, others are pro life, anti second amendment. More and more are progressive because they have a hand in the governments till, and fewer and fewer pay much in the form of income tax. That is not the only reason, but is is a factor. However, even then, it is an issue orientated citizenry, and less a political machine citizenry. Which is why either political party just doesn;t get it.
hate breeds hate.
before 2001, I was the most happy go lucky person
since this corrupt bunch have invated the White House, my hatred has deepend to a point, I don’t even understand it myself…
Oh and I only wish I was under the influence. Would love to have drank the last 6 years away
Can we please have an end to the “liberal” media excuse/strategy to debunk arguments now?
We’re not buying that BS on WeBlog anymore.
delsol
we who?
speak for yourself
Count me in that WE!
But they only have excuses and many of those are wearing thin.
I’m still listening for your explanation of the conservative strategy behind allowing liberals to control the media, Econ.
Let’s hear it!!
That’s an odd question delsol.
How is anyone going to answer a question like that?
You posed the question as if it was conservatives that are the ones manipulating their own strategy to work against themselves to cause a conspiracy?
You want to rephrase that?
Republican, once again you are guilty of not following the blog. Go back and up and read all of my posts.
“The vast majority of journalism school graduates are liberal Democrats.The vast majority of broadcast news reporters and anchors are Democrats.The vast majority of print newspaper reporters are Democrats.The vast majority of weekly news magazine reporters are Democrats.”Posted by Econ101
If that statement is true than I assume that Republics don’t want to be reporters as much as Democratic people do.
????
BINGO!
Journalists are, as a group, a very lazy bunch.
You can get a journalism or communications degree without taking much, if any, math, science or other hard subjects.
Most conservatives don’t mind hard work.
I think most folks are more like me- we are LIBERAL but we are also CONSERVATIVE. I call myself a LICON for LIBERAL CONSERVATIVE. I strongly support things that the government does that are LIBERAL but I detest the way they lie, misuse my tax money and practice imcompetency at every level. For example:
1. GUN CONTROL: If you want gun control, start with criminal control. Make my streets SAFE. If that means more prisons and cops and higher taxes, I will be happy to pay. Just don’t waste my money. When my streets are SAFE then I will gladly not pack heat anymore. Until then, no deal.
2. IMMIGRATION: You want “comprehensive reform” and amnesty? Fine. I support amnesty. BUT first I want that swiss cheese border closed. And I want empoloyer enforcement that HURTS when they are caught hiring illegals. I want a fence and a wall on that border and I want sneaking in ended. THEN I will gladly support legalizing the 12 million or so that already snuck in and are not criminals.
3. PUBLIC SCHOOLS: I support public education 100%. Always have. But I want something for my money too. If we are spending $11,000 per student per year, we damn well should get students that can read, write, do simple calculations and communicate in English. And if certain schools cannot or will not give us our money’s worth, they need to be held accountable. People might even need to be fired. Fine with me. If I put out products at work with a defectve rate of over 50%, I would expect to be fired too.
4. NATIONAL HEATHCARE. I am a BIG supporter of it. Long overdue in America- the only G7 country that doesn’t have it. BUT first show me a government that can deliver the mail, secure the border, educate children and deal with crime. Then more people might be inclined towards National Healthcare.
“The vast majority of journalism school graduates are liberal Democrats.Posted by: Econ101 | June 25, 2007 at 02:44 PM”
The vast majority of ALL school graduates are liberal Democrats. Isn’t that the point of this discussion.
Econ 101, which are the subjects that aren’t hard?
Please, do tell.
“Journalists are, as a group, a very lazy bunch.
You can get a journalism or communications degree without taking much, if any, math, science or other hard subjects.
Most conservatives don’t mind hard work.”
Your (dare I say it, again) offensive oversimplifications/generalizations/insinuations win you the “most idiotic post of the day” award, PFR. Congratulations on being macro-foolish and micro-ignorant.
Journalism students are taught to look at both sides of an issue.
That philosophy really screws up “conservative” dogma. “Conservatives” hate a balanced approach to the issues of the day.
As Stephen Colbert reminded us, “Truth has a Liberal bias.”
Liberals look at problems and try to come up with solutions. “Conservatives” look at problems and try to come up with a *conservative* solution.
“Conservatives” look for the private enterprise solution, like protecting for-profit health insurance companies who suck up 30-cents per every premium dollar as salaries and perks for executives.
“Conservatives” count on racism and xenophobia to deal with the immigration “problem,” without recognizing that corporate America sucks in illegal aliens because they will work for sub-standard wages.
“Conservatives” think they can convert foreigners into democratists if only we shoot enough of them in Iraq.
“Conservatism” has become a fantasy of overly idealistic dogma. Like in the 2nd act of “Peter Pan.” “If we all clap our hands and believe in fairies, Tinkerbell will live!!!!”
Those of us among the reality-based community aren’t particularly enamored by abortion on demand. But we’ve had it up to our gills with fanatics portraying us as *pro*-abortion. I’m no more “pro”-abortion than I’d be “pro-”amputation. But if the situation of an individual comes to that, she’s entitled to safe, legal medical attention to her personal crisis.
“Conservatives” resent being reminded that the desire to abort a pregnancy has been going on ever since women have been getting pregnant. The only-est consequence of outlawing abortion would be to return the practice to back-alley butchers.
“Conservatives” would rather apply their theology and claim “life” begins at conception. Or at implantation of a zygote into the uterus. Or at some slippery definition of viability.
There’s absolutely nothing “conservative” about such political efforts. True “conservatism” lets the individual decide on issues which have no, or (at best) marginal, impact on society as a whole.
The myth of a “conservative” majority is self evident, not simply because “conservatives” have always been wrong; but that “conservatives” have compartmentalized issues, denied their internal philosophical contradictions, and simply refused to adapt their dogma to the realities of the human condition.
delsol – I wonder if he considers chemistry, physics, geology, biology, math, environmental law and the other sciences easy? After all, that is what THIS Liberal took in college.
Then, after that, to help run my business: economics, accounting, business law, etc.
Don’t you love how the reich-wing doesn’t believe polls they don’t like?
Now that Bush is BELOW CARTER down to NIXON LEVEL of popularity–26 percent and dropping like a stone–not believing polls makes a lot of sense for the reality deniers.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19352087/site/newsweek
Eat it, CONs. Three-fourths of all Americans think your man Bush sucks blue whale.
Yeah, must be a statistical anomoly . . .
“By what trick, con job or bamboozlement,” Pitts wondered, “does a nation that supports gun control, abortion rights and stem cell research believe itself to be conservative?” -The Pitts
Because there are a few more ingredients that go into the mix, besides those generalized statements from handpicked questions, Mr. Pitts. Conservative values that Americans embrace, like being for lower taxes, less government, a strong national defense, religious freedoms, and recognition that this is one nation, under God.
Besides, hardly anyone wants to be called a liberal. yuck.
Less government? Is that what you call the Bush administration?
Lower taxes? At the expense of massive deficits?
“Religious freedoms?” This ‘liberal’ is all for that!
“one nation, under God” can be incompatible with religious freedom in that itsmacks of ’state religion’
Strong national defense – also all for it. But that is damaged by stupid pre-emptive wars.
Where does this fit?: “Reluctantly pro-choice but abortion sucks”
Oh my, Long Time Poster, First Time Lurker | June 25, 2007 at 06:53 PM, such anger. You appear to be your own worst enemy. If that represents liberalism you can keep it.
“You can get a journalism or communications degree without taking much, if any, math, science or other hard subjects.
Most conservatives don’t mind hard work.
Posted by: Econ101 | June 25, 2007 at 05:57 PM”
Weren’t you a journalism major Econ?
Unfortunately, what you hear from the Lurker, you hear from many Liberals. I think he nailed the common definition of Liberal. Be afraid, be very afraid!
Oh my, Long Time Poster, FirstTime Lurker | June 25, 2007 at 06:53 PM, such anger. You appear to be your own worst enemy. If that represents liberalism you can keep it.
Posted by: mark | June 25, 2007 at 09:43 PM
Liberals on this thread prove my point.
ArrogantPedanticIntellectually NarcissiticBIGOTED and prone to stereotypes!
Got you with that last one, didn’t I?
Liberals assume that smart people agree with them. The truth is, High School drop outs tend to be Democrats. Unskilled laborers tend to be Democrats. Welfare recipients tend to be Democrats.
Lots of “Stupid People” agree with the supposedly “smart” people on this board.
By the way, I have every right to speak ill of journalism degrees.
I have one! Which proves the bigotry on this board. You attack personally before you know anything about your opponent.
There are liberals that I respect. You name calling snobs are not in that group.
The truth has always been this: “Most reporters entered journalism school because of a deathly fear of math, not because of any love for the written word!”
I am actually one of the few journalism school graduates who DOES like to hear both sides of an argument.
I am also one of the few that can do my own work and figure things out for myself.
The vast majority of reporters simply cut and paste from past, often false reports, when they “write” about controversial or difficult topics.
MBAGood for you, you noticed before I said anything about it.
By the way, the poll numbers for Congress are LOWER than the numbers for Bush!
“BIGOTED and prone to stereotypes!”
like claiming “The vast majority of journalism school graduates are liberal Democrats.”?
“Journalists are, as a group, a very lazy bunch.”
As for Arrogant:
“The truth has always been this: “Most reporters entered journalism school because of a deathly fear of math, not because of any love for the written word!”
I am actually one of the few journalism school graduates who DOES like to hear both sides of an argument.
I am also one of the few that can do my own work and figure things out for myself.
The vast majority of reporters simply cut and paste from past, often false reports, when they “write” about controversial or difficult topics.”
Econ – PROVE your arrogant bigoted stereotypical unsubstantiated claims.
As for being willing to look at both sides?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
I have to admit; I do NOT have a journalism degree. Mine are in the EASY disciplines: Chemistry, Geology, Environmental Science, and Business.
“By the way, the poll numbers for Congress are LOWER than the numbers for Bush!”
Care to substantiate that?
Afraid of math and science Econ?
Real Clear Politics:
President Bush Job Approval
RCP AverageApprove 31.1%Disapprove 63.8%Spread -32.7%Poll Details
Congressional Job Approval
RCP AverageApprove 25.2%Disapprove 64.0%Spread -38.8%Poll Details
Econ, just because you have a journalism degree does not qualify you to claim, in effect, that most journalists ended up there because they are lazy, stupid, and math-intolerant.
You made the same kind of name-calling broad assumptions first, before anyone said anything about you personally.
I still would like to hear how it is that conservatives have allowed the mass media power structure to be dominated by stupid, lazy, math-intolerant liberals.
Also, you mentioned one-half of the demographic of democrats: the least educated. The most educated in this country are overwhelmingly liberal (hence the “academic bias” conservatves bitch about almost as much as the “liberal bias”–the difference being that the acadmemic bias actually exists).
Meant to say in 10:12 post “liberal bias” in academia almost as much as liberal bias in the media–.
Thanks lhg. I had seen another one that had Bush about 25%.
Also have seen some over the past several weeks that break out Dems in Congress vs Congress overall. Dems fare badly but not as badly as Congress overall.
On a cheerful note: That stupid judge who sued the mom&pop cleaners for many millions over a pair of pants was tossed out of court. And hopefully he is also getting tossed out of his job! (No link – TV news Ch 12)
Listen up bloggers, Ben,The “intellectual narcissist”, has spoken!
ANYONE who constantly has to state credentials has a huge ego problem.
Bill Lear never obtained a degree. The last time I brought up that point, I don’t think Ben ever caught on that Bill Lear founded Lear Jet. In fact, I think Ben asked me who the hell Bill Lear was!
Ben, if you were nearly as smart as you think you are, you would figure out a way to share your wisdom with the rest of us who suffer from merely average intellects.
You don’t.
True genious is the ability to explain the complex to the masses.
You never attempt that.
You simply recite your resume, and expect us to all drop our jaws in wonderous awe.
In this way, we all supply your need for attention and assure your special status in the world!
Well, that is what you want anyway.
Just like the school yard bully, you can’t force respect, you have to earn it.
There are people with far more credentials than you, Ben, who disagree with you. Most of those people know how to make a point, without insult.
They also know how to actually change some minds every now and then.
Yes, I tossed out GENERAL insults too. Against the journalism profession, which I understand very well. Everything I said about them was true.
There’s nothing wrong with Ben! He’s ah ite!
True “genious” knows how to spell genius………..
Registered Independent for 25+ years. I don’t claim either party. It’s a sad state in America today when we can’t trust our top political leaders to represent the people.
If we weren’t doing our jobs in the private world, we’d be fired in a heartbeat.
I really hope the People get together and Fire as many of these Politicians as we can in 2008.
Good news on that lawsuit – I can’t beleive it went as far as it did though. I hope the defendent was awarded all legal costs from the plaintif for filing such a frivolous lawsuit.
The wheels of justice…no wonder there’s such a backlog of cases in the courts.
Two members of Congress I would really love to see gone. Harry Reid and Ted Stevens!
Paul – YOU are the one who brought up majors and degrees. I was simply expanding upon it. As for insults; you tossed out many. I responded.
Joe – I’m assuming typos (I get ‘fat-fingers’ a lot) but what is “He’s ah ite!”
Reid and Stevens would probably be good departures.
lhg – yes, I think they awarded legal fees to defendant.
I wish that guy’s cleaners were here – I would go there and there ONLY.
ah ite?
Oh! That’s just an attempt to type street.
ah ite = All Right
“Bill Lear never obtained a degree. The last time I brought up that point, I don’t think Ben ever caught on that Bill Lear founded Lear Jet. In fact, I think Ben asked me who the hell Bill Lear was!”
Maybe it’s my age but I do not recall that. But you are correct; many of the greatest are ‘non-degreed’
Gotcha! Not real good at some of the vernacular either!
;^)
Computer about to crash me out – Joe, go put the twins to bed! ;^)
One of my favorite lines about intelligence from Einstein:
“Ever since the mathematicians got a hold of relativity, I find that even I don’t understand it.”
26 percent . . . CONs
26 percent
It totally sucks to be you.
Sounds like the judge was trying to take the cleaners, to the cleaners. Heard he had 100,000 in legal expenses thus far, but was planning on appealing.
Sounds as though Liberals become Journalist, Republicans go to work as party shills, or political pundits.
Or partisan hacks like Sampson, Goodling, and AGAG.
I assume that those of you who dislike the “personal attacks” herein the “anger” of certain liberal posters have disowned Ann Coulter, Terry Fox, Pat Buchanan, and their ilk?
I have to say I’m pretty angry with this administration and their complete f***ups combined with absolute arrogance. They have put us in a hole that will take years, even decades, to dig out of.
paul rosell thinks tha all people who are uneducated, unskilled and on welfare are Democrats. Then explain this one, Paulie, Bush only won by hoodwinking those very same uneducated, unskilled and on welfare Southern voters. You know the ones, those that follow Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson into believing that if they give all their money to those two cons that somehow God will bless them and save them a place in Heaven. Now that is what Conservative Republicans do – they use the uneducated and unskilled to hoodwink them into believing that they too will become rich just like the Republicans are.
It’s a con game – from Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell all the way down to George W. Bush trying to make people think he is just a good ole boy from Texas that really gives a fat rat’s ass about anybody but himself.
It is a myth that that Democrats are uneducated. This is something that the right loves to say BUT the truth is that, if you look at your top flight college campuses, Democrats outnumber Repukes by about 10 to 1. And these are people that come from the suburbs and upper income professional families. I was one of the “po folks” at Northwestern and a conservative on the campus- while they did exist and published a stupid paper (Northwestern Review) for awhile, were a small minority.
If you look at the average SAT scores and GPAs at conservative Republican colleges like Liberty University and Bob Jones University, you will find that they are much lower than notorius liberal campuses like UC Berkely. Generally the smarter one becomes the more liberal one becomes.
“I assume that those of you who dislike the “personal attacks” herein the “anger” of certain liberal posters have disowned Ann Coulter, Terry Fox, Pat Buchanan, and their ilk?”
All these people are bigots but at least Buchannon is a real conservative. I don’t agree with him on anything but he doesn’t blow in the neo con winds like most of them. He has always been an immigrant bashing parinoid bigot. I bet George HW Bush regrets the day they let him speak in prime time on the stage of the GOP convention. And I am hoping to God that Ann Coulter gets a prime time spot in 2008 so that all America can see what the GOP is really about.
Other than put his eighth grade literacy on display, and cite a Jew pollster, I’m not sure what Pitt proves.
I support abortions for non-white minorities and think blacks should not be allowed to own guns. Does that make me liberal?
I’m certainly not conservative.
Bill White, CommanderAmerican National Socialist Workers Partyanswp@nazi.org
The white racists have arrived.
Steven, your fact check site only goes to 2003. In KANSAS the abortion rate HAS increased, but that could also be due to more regulations in other states. If I remember correctly though, Kansas citizens have increased as well.
Gotta wonder if the racists came after that blog a few days back…hmm.
Or if someone’s just screwing around.
I seem to detect a lot of bitterness and self-loathing in “Econ101.” He tells us he was a journalism major in college and then rails that people go into journalism because it is easy and that they are afraid of hard courses.
He goes on to say that journalists are lazy; but apparently he couldn’t even cut it at THAT level. So, since he couldn’t make it as a journalist he must lash out at the profession that he perceives as having rejected him.
I know many fellow journalism students who have found successful rewarding careers in fields other than journalism. They find that their training in journalism helps them tremendously in becoming spokespersons for their companies or professions.
Not one of the former journalism students who I know feel that their journalism studies were wasted; nor do they lash out at those of us who have remained in the field.
Sad, truly sad …
Journalist, Econ 101 managed to lump a lot of people into his diatribe–unspecified non-science and math people and all liberals, in addition to journalists, an ocean-wide swath. Then he got upset when some lashed back at him and his credibility in making such widely-disparaging assumptions.
Any respect I had for Econ went out the window when he made those absurdly broad statements. You would think that someone who calls themselves “Econ 101″ would know something about micro, macro, and demographics.
You would think.
…and I am STILL WAITING for one of the conservatives to explain WHY they allow lazy, stupid, math-disabled liberals to dominate the information airwaves in this country.
Not enough brainpower? Not enough money? Some combination of the two? Please, tell us about this area of weakness, or curious stategy? among the superior conservative majority!!!
Econ says that he wasn’t good at math . . . hmmm.
Pity the poor investors that do business with the guy.
Oh, wait, I almost forgot. Competence is not important to right-wing-nuts. Ideology is.
You have the right view on abortion? Okay, you can run the Iraqi Stock Exchange.
You donated to Worst. President. Ever? Okay, you can be head of FEMA and become “Heck of a Job” Brown.
You’ve spent the last 20 years as a paid lobbyist for big oil? Welcome to your new job, chair of the EPA!
“The vast majority of ALL school graduates are liberal Democrats. Isn’t that the point of this discussion.
Posted by: brian | June 25, 2007 at 06:05 PM”
I am surprised no one touched this one
I will admit that many leftists have book smarts. However, the vast majority of those are cowardly, evil, insane utopians and that is a lousy combination!
Wow, …….NAZIS????????
Yep, sgt, we even have NAZIS visit from time to time.
And, of course, the usual “cowardly, evil, insane neocons”
The neocons ARE cowardly, insane, evil utopian LEFTISTS.
No sgt – they are cowardly, insane, evil RIGHTISTS. With Cheney-Bush leading the pack.
By Michael AbramowitzWashington Post Staff WriterWednesday, June 27, 2007; Page A05http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
Vice President Cheney’s office offered its first public written explanation yesterday for its refusal to comply with an executive order regulating the handling of classified material, arguing that the order makes clear that the vice president is not subject to the oversight system it creates for federal agencies.
In a letter to Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.), Cheney chief of staff David S. Addington wrote that the order treats the vice president the same as the president and distinguishes them both from “agencies” subject to the oversight provisions of the executive order.
Addington did not repeat a separate argument that has been previously advanced by Cheney’s office: that it is not strictly an executive branch agency but also shares legislative functions because the vice president presides over the Senate. That argument has drawn ridicule in recent days from Democrats and on late-night television.
Addington suggested in his letter that it was not necessary to rehash that dispute. “Given that the executive order treats the Vice President like the President rather than like an ‘agency,’ ” he wrote, “it is not necessary in these circumstances to address the subject of any alternative reasoning, based on the law and the legislative functions of the vice presidency. . . .” The controversy arises from the revelation last week, by Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif.), that the vice president’s office has not cooperated since 2003 with officials at the National Archives and Records Administration, who are charged with policing executive branch compliance with rules protecting classified information. In a letter to Cheney, Waxman wrote that the vice president’s office had not responded to letters from the National Archives contesting its legal position.