Though dirt now is being moved at the downtown arena site, a “groundbreaking” will come later. Moving day is Monday for Episcopal Social Services, which has purchased the former Breakthrough Club at 1005 E. Second St. And “we will be starting demolition on properties in mid-July,” Sedgwick County spokeswoman Kristi Zukovich told The Eagle editorial board Thursday. The project is on schedule, she said. Next, the arena citizen design review team and arena steering team will meet Tuesday, and the citizens involved will be recognized at Wednesday’s Sedgwick County Commission meeting.
True, the arena project is not moving fast enough for some — and too fast for those still fighting to kill it — but what matters is that it’s now making visible progress.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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THE RECENT REPORT PRESENTING THE DOWNSIDE OF CASINOS FOR SEDGWICK COUNTY COULD BE AMENDED TO SUBSTITUTE THE WORD “ARENA” FOR “CASINO” AND STILL BE ESSENTIALLY CORRECT.
Both offer precious little benefit for the various costs paid by taxpayers.
Both are being built for a small segment of the population at the cost of many. Remember the old Communist slogan: “from the many according to their ability … to the few according to their need.”
Both will take the majority of the proceeds from the activity whether it be gambling or ticket sales for ice hockey/basketball games … and send it rapidly out of Kansas on a fast midnight train to New York, Las Vegas or wherever the owners happen to office.
Of course, the governor will be waiting in a darkened limosine idling under a nearby street light waiting for taxes due the state of Kansas. This will enable Kansas to exceed its current dubious record as having more state employees per thousand of population than any other state in the U.S.
In honor of all this fruitless activity, I’m still designing little glowing orange plastic statues of unheralded Wichita favorite son, Earl Browder, born and raised in Delano district of Wichita. I hope to present these little orange plastic statues suitable for dashboards to people who best exemplify the ideals of Mr. Browder. Browder will be portrayed in his dapper business suit reminiscent of the 1930’s when he ran for U.S. President twice on the Communist Party ticket.
Perhaps one full sized glowing orange plastic statue could be erected downtown in front of the new arena to give the name:
THE EARL BROWDER MEMORIAL DOWNTOWN ARENA PAID FOR BY 85% OF PROTESTING SEDGWICK COUNTIANS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE FEW.
Your thread is a great example of the danger of apathy.
You claim 85% are against the Arena project yet it passed by a Majority vote!!!!!
Obviously all the 85% you talk about didn’t think it was important enough to get off the seat of their pants and get out and VOTE.
Those who chose to NOT VOTE don’t count, UNTIL they decide to be responsible enough to register participate.
Apthey is our enemy on each and every issue. Devoting your energy to education and voter registration AND GETTING OUT TO VOTE is the solution.
Jwink Lost! Got slapped down by the reality and facts the he doesn’t abide by.
He’s a freakin kook! A Johnson County transplant that now thinks he knows what’s best for this community.
Nice comments Joe. Next time try a blackjack to head, it’s quicker than typing.
“Remember the old Communist slogan: ‘from the many according to their ability … to the few according to their need.’”
If you’re going to try to tie this effort into Marxism, you ought to at least try to get the quote right. It’s “From EACH according to his abilities, to EACH according to his needs.”
Creates quite a different message than your spin attempt, doesn’t it?
Personally, I consider Marxism to be one of humanity’s most disastrously failed experiments. But I don’t have a lot of use for lying politicians who hype a project and then escalate the costs after approval. To me, that’s just a form of bait-and-switch.
The escalation is due in part of several factors, one being that they are expected to exceed the tax revenue collection in their preliminary study. They figured they would collect $184.5 million in 30 months from the arena sales tax. Now that figure is $201 million they will collect. And by state law they must spend every penny on the arena and pavilions, they adjusted their budget accordingly. The arena in total will cost $179 million, that includes every thing from demolishing, to furnishing the seats to toilet paper in the restrooms. Still well within budget and lower than the original $184.5 million dollars.
There is more to it, but I’m but repeating myself over and over again and frankly it isn’t worth the time anymore because the arena WILL BE BUILT.
But that goes to show you Fiore that JWink, who hates Wichita so much and tries to pull it down in any chance he has, thinks you are a marxist communist and that you are a part of a secret society that meets in an unknown building in downtown Wichita contemplating ideas and printing Marxist newspapers.
JWink might just be the infamous Mad Marvin from Pratt that use to terrorize citizens of that town, Pratt now known as the meth capital of the Midwest. Is where he originally is from and still resides.
75% increase in construction costs.
45% increase in overall core costs.
72% DECREASE in funds provided for infrastructure, parking, operating losses.
County states clearly they expect it to lose mone; that is why they represented to the voters they would provide $23,611,000 loss reserve. That has been reduced dramatically if not completely eliminated.
$52 million was represented to be set aside for parking, infrastructurem loss reserve - the total of that is not $15 million.
The Arena WILL be built. The City is already talking about spending more to provide infrastructure improvements to support the Arena. (Even though it was represented to the voters that was already provided for).
Joe! It is up to YOU to make the Arena successful. I hope YOU are not back at County Commission seeking operatine funds for it.
Joe! I don’t really know JWink very well but have never known him to say he hates Wichita. Care to substantiate that claim?
By the way - I CAN substantiate my numbers. They are not some sort of “lies from the anti-arena crowd” (whatever that is). They are ALL directly from Sedgwick County.
Those who are against the arena, I ask this simple question.. How on earth do you reimburse the sales tax which is being used to pay for this? As far as I’m concerned if we are going to invest this much money in an arena, lets do it right, upgrade the facility to a world class facility and more seating. How do we talk to Commissioners about this?
Jon - I recommended two alternatives to the County Commission. One was to follow the precedent established by the Internal Revenue Service when they refunded the telephone excise tax. You will notice on the back of your 2006 Form 1040 a line for that (don’t recall the line number right now) where that was done. If you don’t have that on your 1040 I recommend you ask your accountant why not; your accountant should have made sure you got it. The sales tax refund could be done in a similar fashion on line 28 of K-40. Business returns (1120, 1120S, 1065) had similar lines in 2006 for the telephone tax refund.
The other option recommended to the County Commission was to just reduce the sales tax rete to 5.3% (instead of 6.3% from 7.3%) for a period until the difference is made up.
As for “How do we talk to Commissioners about this?” call them and make an appointment.
“and frankly it isn’t worth the time anymore because the arena WILL BE BUILT.”
yes joe, we realize this… but we want to make sure the voting public realizes how much this arena will cost John Q Taxpayer…
Your arena will cost millions more than the 201 million budgeted. The city is spending millions on infrastructure, millions are being spent on special amenities for the VIP`s, millions will be spent every year supporting the massive deficits it will run…
This arena will go down in history as the most expensive arena in history…
Frankly Mobile Tony! You only wish. You only wish it to fail. You only wish it to be the most expensive arena in history.
Frankly Mobile Tony! You’re wrong and going to be wrong. So go phuck yourself!
My wife and I recently bought a BRAND NEW CAR and did we buy it in Wichita and pay the f***ing arena tax.
Nope.
We voted with our feet and went out of county.
Screw you, socialists for the rich.
Joe, I’ll make you a deal… I will “phuck” myself publicly IF the TOTAL cost of the Arena comes in under 201 Million after 10 years!
How about that?
Gee Joe! Did you learn that (phuck yourself) in communications class? Typical for you Joe!
I hope Mobile Tony is wrong and you are right. But, when you come back for your operating subsidies as the County has already said will be needed don’t get upset when everyone tells YOU to “phuck yourself”!
“Joe! I don’t really know JWink very well but have never known him to say he hates Wichita. Care to substantiate that claim?”
STILL WAITING JOE! SUBSTANTIATE THAT! OR IS THAT JUST YET ANOTHER JOE! LIE?
By the way, you never answered my question about how many times you visited Derby Refinary you claimed to know so much about.
And another ‘by the way’; who do we know who helped the City deal with the Superfund situation up there? Bet is was NOT you!
Gee Joe! Did you learn that (phuck yourself) in communications class? Typical for you Joe!
I hope Mobile Tony is wrong and you are right. But, when you come back for your operating subsidies as the County has already said will be needed don’t get upset when everyone tells YOU to “phuck yourself”!
“Joe! I don’t really know JWink very well but have never known him to say he hates Wichita. Care to substantiate that claim?”
STILL WAITING JOE! SUBSTANTIATE THAT! OR IS THAT JUST YET ANOTHER JOE! LIE?
By the way, you never answered my question about how many times you visited Derby Refinary you claimed to know so much about.
And another ‘by the way’; who do we know who helped the City deal with the Superfund situation up there? Bet is was NOT you!
From the County Commission Website:Prior to the Vote:It is estimated that the downtown arena would cost $141,517,000.00
Note: in the ballot info that it would also include costs of land acquisition, site costs, design and development costs, construction costs, parking, parking, infrastructure, and contingency and soft costs.
The project would also include renovations to the Kansas Coliseum Pavilions. etc etc.
Don’t believe me? I took screen shots of all of the overviews and estimates from the County Commission.
It can all be read here:
http://republikan.typepad.com/republikansan/kansas_politics/index.html
Just double click on each image to make it pop up and readable.
http://webnetassoc.com/Arena/
Republican - you might find this of interest too. The chart right there is my very brief analysis; the two pdf’s are direct from the Sedgwick County Commission.
Since their isn’t any parking we can take that out of the cost estimate right?
no Tom; they shifted that to cover the cost over-runs in construction costs.
What I thought, so any parking plan will need new taxes or taking money from another project,
Thanks Ben, a very telling chart and I hadn’t seen the PDF’s before, thanks!
Joe! claims I get all my lies from some shadowy anti-arena group! I have better sources for them!
Tom - the City has been talking about undertaking infrastructure (including parking) projects in support of the Arena. They feel they need to do that to make the Arena work.
Joe
This can’t possibly help attracting out of towners to an arena or casino. Supposedly the WEblog is one of the best and most popular with a national audience — damage control? The ripple on this can be significant if some liberal wants to send it to the MSM.
On the Tiahrt / needle thread yesterday:Posted by: Republican | June 23, 2007 at 03:29 PM:
We Kansans, of course get to comment on what’s around us and involves us.
We just don’t need “border ruffians” like what happened during Bleeding Kansas to come in and stir up trouble.
A lot of the posters here who are Liberal aren’t originally from Kansas or not from Kansas at all and do not know what makes up Kansas values including the what Kansas Liberal Values are.
People outside of Kansas who weren’t raised here, have no clue of what it means to be Kansan. Therefore they add some good things, but when they start assigning values that are not Kansan or never will be Kansan, then they need to leave.
Kansas has enough of its own Liberals to keep us occupied, we don’t need any outside “coasters” to put their values on a state they no nothing about and usually dismiss as fly over territory.
It’s like KFG. I hardly agree with her, but I admire her ability to be a self-starter, have a working farm and operate a cafe. That’s what Kansans are all about, creativity, pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and minimizing the blame when they know they can do things to change it because of who they are.
For that, KFG gets a gold star.
Dr.Ben Huie is another good example who lives in a comfortable Kansas home and is recognized in the Community as a Professional who gets involved with the community. He is not originally from Kansas, but he lives here and knows the local issues often more than some of those born here.
I suppose if I went to a blog in Texas and started mocking rednecks and cowboys, I would soon be the brunt of the Blog elite.
So, if you “foreigners” don’t like my Kansas comments, feel free to get on your virtual plane and fly on out.
Posted by: Republican | June 23, 2007 at 03:29 PM
Joe
Similar comment was made in Opinion Line today …..
,,, maybe he’s advertising for people to hit his blog?
Looking atthe September 2004 information it appears the County was anticipating deficits running a bit over $2 million per year. Since the reserve fund has been slashed (and what is left will likely also be absorbed) I have come up with two alternate means to cover that deficit.
One is to establish a benefit district tax covering the Old Town area. That way the revenues would be collected directly from those who benefit from the Old Town Arena.
The other methos is to sell memberships. If they can sell 15,000 memberships at $100 each that would raise $1.5 million. Then sell ‘luxury’ memberships for the luxury boxes. That could raise the additional half-million needed.
Membership would give the member a neat lapel pin and ‘preferred access’ to purchase tickets to events. Also, they could hold ‘members-only’ receptions at their Arena.
That’s nice Ken, posting cross threads into a topic of irrelevant topics for your own twisted personal agenda.
If I wanted to advertise my Blog I would do it the proper way. But you wouldn’t know about such things, now would you Ken?
Joe’s meltdown is from trying to reconcile libertarian principles with his support for a downtown arena provided by government.
He may also be still swooning from his butt-kissing act before the county commission a few weeks ago.
Joe, to libertarians, government is the enemy, the opposite of freedom. Yet you told them that you trusted them!
From today’s Eagle:
“To spur economic development, a Sedgwick County casino would need to lure out-of-state visitors who would leave their money on the table but take their problems back home, many experts say.”
What a grand strategy for economic development!
Like the column by L.D. Alford Jr. a while ago: “Who wants to come to Wichita to lose money?”
Ben,
Wow, the City is thinking about parking and street improvements in the arena zone? Are those City streets? City parking lots are going to be created.
City makes parking contracts using downtown parking garages supporting Arena events.
City will negotiate with business owners if that’s necessary to park in their lots.
That old school being torn down is likely going to be a parking garage. Who was tearing it down, WaterWalk?
County property is the arena site alone.
County can shift responsibility of parking to the City.
Your conspiracy in County spending for the arena is just a shift.
The City benefits having Arena downtown, they should pay for the parking.
Parking isn’t putting a nickel into the construction or future arena operations.
You offered a financing plan, no one listened.
You mention an arena membership idea, likely you wouldn’t even be a part of it.
“County can shift responsibility of parking to the City.” THEN WHY DID THE COUNTY REPRESENT THAT PARKING WAS INCLUDED IN THE ARENA BUDGET?
“You mention an arena membership idea, likely you wouldn’t even be a part of it.” OF COURSE NOT! WHY SHOULD I BE A PART OF IT? I AM A MEMBER OF THINGS I BELIEVE IN LIKE THE ZOO! THE IDEA IS FOR YOU AND JOE! ‘PHUCK YOURSELF’ WILLIAMS TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT IT.
“You offered a financing plan, no one listened.” OF COURSE NOT! WHY SHOULD THEY PAY FOR THEIR TOY WHEN THEY CAN GET SOMEONE ELSE (ME) TO?
“The City benefits having Arena downtown, they should pay for the parking.” THEN LET OLD TOWN PAY FOR IT!
HEY! HOW IS THE 18,000 SEAT THING GOING? GETTING ALL YOUR CORPORATE BUDDIES LINED UP TO SUPPORT IT?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
Mrage, full of intelligent sentences again…
“City makes parking contracts using downtown parking garages supporting Arena events.”
So, basically what you are saying is that the city will spend TAX DOLLARS to provide parking for Arena events, therefore raising the overall operating costs of the Arena.
“City will negotiate with business owners if that’s necessary to park in their lots.”
Again, the city spending TAX DOLLARS to provide parking for the Arena, Therefore is raising the overall operating costs of the Arena.
“That old school being torn down is likely going to be a parking garage. Who was tearing it down, WaterWalk?”
Yea right, do you know how much that land is worth? I would buy up that land and build a strip mall on it in a heartbeat if I had the cash. I’m sure if I would, im sure someone else with cash would.
Mrage, what you seem to be missing here is that the Arena is costing millions more than the 201 million. Once you factor in the infrastructure improvements, your “Parking Contracts” and/or any new parking garages/lots all being paid for by the City, the costs skyrocket. These are all things that the county swore was being paid for by their plan back when we voted for it.
Tony, didn’t you get the memo? It is the responsibility of ordinary taxpayers and business people to shell out their hard-earned money so Mrage and Joe! ‘Phuck Yourself’ Williams can have their playthings!
Hey Mrage! How is it going with your corporate buddies? Getting them to pony up some money for your 18,000 seats?
The thread topic is about the arena. As part of that general topic is the need to attract out of towners to Wichita. Your comments if taken seriously by anyone who reads it or the media will cause more damage than good.
For everyone else, his real beef with me is he thinks that by posting names of soldiers with either prayers or links to venues (radio station) is an attempt to serve some political agenda. Yet he lists the names of the nine firefighters killed (as well he should) in SC under his name here and that isn’t political and thinks that I am in some way dishonoring the memory of the troops that have sacrificed their lives on the War and that I in essence have no regard for the troops. I’ve never made a post of any of those names with any political commentary. The Beagle publishes profiles in courage every weekend with names of the deceased, several of the MSM including Fox I believe either scrolls names periodically or reports by name (Lou Dobson) does the names of those heroes to honor them. In my last post in that regard I pointed out a radio station web page from DC — that had narratives / bios of heroes from that area and I think that’s a good way to recognize their sacrifice. In that regard I am no more political than those that remember and recognize the sacrifices of our military or other heroes like firefighters in SC. He accuses me of dancing on the graves of those heroes, yet fails to recognize that I am a 20 year veteran of the Air Force, and have a son in the Army stationed at Fort Hood Texas. If anything ever happened to him I would want his sacrifices to be recognized at every opportunity - much like I think Hank might of Nathan.
His reply to this will be either nit pick something like spelling or nor providing a good link — and no real logical intelligent recognition that he might have been wrong in making that evil post about liberals and his continuing personal attacks on me.
Ok Ken,
WTF does that have to do with the Arena…
anonnymous - there is something called “Goodwin’s Law” that says when I call you a NAZI i have ended the thread and also that I have lost. The reasoning is that is because it shows that I have no real response to your arguements.
Think resorting to “Go Phuck Yourself” is similar? Especially from someone who took a communications class that taught him everything he needs to know about everything?
Again I ask Joe!:
“”Joe! I don’t really know JWink very well but have never known him to say he hates Wichita. Care to substantiate that claim?”
STILL WAITING JOE! SUBSTANTIATE THAT! OR IS THAT JUST YET ANOTHER JOE! LIE?
By the way, you never answered my question about how many times you visited Derby Refinary you claimed to know so much about.
And another ‘by the way’; who do we know who helped the City deal with the Superfund situation up there? Bet is was NOT you!”
‘Phuck Yourself’ Joe!?
Heck, i even offered to Phuck myself in public if the arena would run under 201 Mil like he says, yet no response…
Ben! I don’t think I called Joe a Nazi; I’m just pointing out the discrepency between what he says one day (I am a libertarian!), and what he says the next when something he wants (arena, Waterwalk, subsidy, etc.) are at stake.
That’s not disingenous, is it?
There’s a whole lot of copulating suggestions going on around here.
anonymous - I think you misinterpreted my comments. I was noting the similarity between someone calling a person a NAZI (devoid of rational thought) and someone (Joe!) telling a person to “go phuck yourself” (also devoid of rational thought.
BOTH are meltdowns; BOTH are worthy of Goodwin’s law.
In other words, I was agreeing with you - just obviously didn’t express myself well!
Mrage - another observation: “You offered a financing plan, no one listened.” Some years ago, when they built the assisted living facility next to Dillon’s at Central and Maize I advised against it. The reason: IT WOULD FLOOD! No one listened. A few years later, when they had to evacuate the residents by boat I was a bit ‘ungracious’ as I said “I TOLD YOU SO!”
Think maybe they should have listened?
Well Republican…
The problem is that uneducated and uninformed people start debates than start calling people names when they loose…
It happens all over these blogs.
The thread topic is about the arena. As part of that general topic is the need to attract out of towners to Wichita. My earlier comments to Joe (an avid supporter of the arena and economic development) addressed that aspect of the arena (customers). I believe his comments yesterday to be counter productive to any efforts to either build an arena or encourage any economic development. Absolutely pertinent to any arena discussion.
The second half was to shine some light / provide some context to his comments on what I think his problem with me really is.
ahhh… makes a bit more since now…
I can tell you right away, even when I lived in Oklahoma City and was aware of a full blown Casino in Wichita, I would not travel to gamble here.
I would simply buy a SW Airlines ticket and head on out to the real deal in Las Vegas.
But since I don’t gamble, my point is moot but the idea of drawing people from outside of the state is a pipe dream.
I mean, look at the Airline situation at our Airport and people are not going to drive more than 200 miles from other states when there are other Casinos and other things to do.
Let’s get real about what the crowd draw will be.
ken - what do you think of Joe! telling those who disagree with him to “go phuck yourself”? Or his claim that those who disagree with his Arena “hate Wichita”? A claim, of course, that he REFUSES to substantiate.
If that typifies the pro-arena crowd …
Happens to me on a daily basis Ben.
Interesting that Joe! ‘Phuck Yourself’ Williams still hasn’t substantiated his claims. Joe!?
His reply to this will be either nit pick something like spelling or nor providing a good link — and no real logical intelligent recognition that he might have been wrong in making that evil post about liberals and his continuing personal attacks on me.
Posted by: ken | June 24, 2007 at 10:15 PM
Just keep it to the open thread ken and stop screwing up other threads with your agenda.
Yea, I have noticed a lot of the threads degenerate into all sorts of name-calling. I have tended to just not participate on some of those, which is too bad. Actually, this thread had stayed pretty civil until “go phuck yourself” came along. Oh well, I guess that was the most intelligent thing he could think of to say!
Oh well - g’night all. Too late for me … past my bedtime!
good night old man… ill keep fighting the fun fight…
Tony,
Why do you care if the City puts tax money, we don’t control, into parking for the arena?
County subtracts paying for parking, the City increases, where is the rise in Arena costs?
So what, if the gov’s share costs between themselves
The City has to negotiate with parking garages downtown.
I don’t care what the old school land costs, that building is coming down. Most that site is a parking lot already.
You and others had many years to take advantage of the property.
I don’t remember who is buying it.
I think its WaterWalk. They have incentive to have more parking garages downtown to support what they are doing.Regional parking, not so much parking in front of facilities.
Casino downtown will take a lot of surface parking near WaterWalk, if the Canadians plan is picked.
Ben,
When you rise tomorrow, what happened to that assisted living facility? Is it still open?
We haven’t had that type of Halloween flood. Wasn’t it fault of the golf course lake anyway?
All that extra water on Maize Rd came from there?
We’re all thankful no one can pick a future outcome.
I have no control of corps. I can only tell them advantages of supporting the arena. How fast they make decisions, I won’t be the first to learn.
You should put County PDF’s down. That information can be updated and altered.
Your more concerned about future tax increases. When they occur, you’ll read about them in the paper.
I’m trying to make sure future tax increases don’t happen by suggesting corporations get involved in the arena.
Ben
I never liked any of the name calling and character assasination that occurs in the blogs. I will admit to having at least 1 perhaps 2 outbursts here earlier this year on response to comments that I felt questioned and insulted my character that would have fallen into the category of name calling and character assasination - I never read any of his responses but have kept to my promise to try not to acknowledge his existence –and this is the first time since then (3-4 months) that I have commented on any of his remarks and I did it without name calling or character assassination. I am not a member of the walk on by club (kind of a little on the childish side).
As far as Joe’s specific comment is concerned: he is obviously a zealot, border line fanatic about the arena and economic development and that is not a bad thing, in any endeavor of this scope (including the casino / resort) any forward progress in growth or economic development needs these type. Those with opposition to the cause need those folks too. Any comments by either camp that are rude or denigrating can be read by outsiders and potential customers and reflect poorly on the entire population. It would be nice if it didn’t occur anymore— but I’m realisitic enough to know that won’t happen. And it doesn’t matter who started it - it’s no badge of honor to the least guilty.
I’ve stated my opinion on the arena and casino at least once I think. I would prefer that there be more direct financial support for the arena projects and fund any infrastructe improvements from the business community and less a tax burden for the population. Wishful thinking and that ship has sailed. I think the arena is inevitable. If I had my choice (and I know I don’t) my personal preference would to not locate the casino / resort downtown and have it a little west of the airport. I would like to see the downtown developed to be family entertainment / retail center as a resource to the community and resort. I have some ideas that I have shared with some people involved in the proposal process that I believe creates a win - win for everyone (City, State, community, local industry, not for profits) I stated a few months ago that in order to succeed the projects need to “Go Big or Stay Home). It needs to have the quality (perhaps a little more subtle than what Mr. Trump is known for). It needs to be accessible to the community in general at reasonable cost and any developer has to take the lead in developing the downtown riverfront as a family oriented destination. It has to be committed to using local labor paid a decent wage, get the appropriste schools involved for training etc — pay WSU to research ways to make the operation eco friendly, perhaps develop a method to recycle waste to provide energy, maximize use of solar power etc ….. I even think there is a way to appease those that oppose the development.
With an almost full amenity resort / casino I can see opportunities for locals (including the surrounding communities) to share in the success in providing support services. One I thought of is some one like Hank and Nathan could provide a service centered around hunting, fishing, using the firing range, trail rides etc … . Have them help coordinate meetings for regional hunting, fishing groups. etc There are several upscale resorts (without Casinos) that can be models for the type of entertainment that can attract regional costumers.
Right or wrong I think both the arena and casino will happen. I think to succeed as a destination casino, it needs to be upscale and managed by someone as demanding as Mr Trump.
geesh 2 am — I need to stop the late night coffee —-
Film at eleven
“Why do you care if the City puts tax money, we don’t control, into parking for the arena?”
Ok, are you kidding me? Why should I care what my Tax dollars are used for? Uh, lets see here… The county promised that parking would be taken care of in the initial $184 Million. Why should the city now spend millions of our tax dollars because the county failed to plan? Why should more tax money be spent on parking when there are flooding problems out west to deal with? Why should we spend money on that when there are a lack of fire stations Ease, West and South? Why should we spend money on that when there are still unpaved roads within the city? Why should we spend money when there isn’t enough water in the area to last us another 100 years? I can think of dozens of other projects that will benefit more people that the CITY can spend money on rather than parking for the COUNTYS ARENA!
“County subtracts paying for parking, the City increases, where is the rise in Arena costs?”
The county isn’t subtracting paying for parking, they are taking the parking money and using it for something else, than the city is adding money, so that’s an overall cost increase! Lets make it simple, you have $10, you budget $5 for dinner and $5 for drinks. Well, you end up spending $10 on dinner with nothing left for drinks, so someone else buys you $5 worth of drinks. Your dinner has now cost you and your friend a combined total of $15.
“The City has to negotiate with parking garages downtown.”
No they don’t if they build their own facilities (which need to be built, there isn’t enough parking in downtown anyway).
“Casino downtown will take a lot of surface parking near WaterWalk, if the Canadians plan is picked.”
Also, if you read the article last week (Thursday I believe) it stated that the Canadian’s are planning a multi thousand spot parking garage (3k I think). There will be no more surface lots in downtown. I would like to see a city ordnance that states no surface lots over X spaces, (say 50) should be allowed in the “Central Business District”. Parking garages should be built as often as possible.
Good writing Tony. I agree about the surface parking lots. Surface parking lots are ugly and take up valuable real estate.
You can probably check with Ben on this, but the inclusion of more surface parking lots would lead to a lot more drainage problems that would leech massive amounts of contaminants into the nearby river.
Mrage:
“We haven’t had that type of Halloween flood. Wasn’t it fault of the golf course lake anyway?
All that extra water on Maize Rd came from there?” NO. It came from the Cowskin. I doubt that you are licensed by the State of Kansas in this field.
“County subtracts paying for parking, the City increases, where is the rise in Arena costs?” COUNTY DIDN’T SUBTRACT COSTS - THEY SHIFTED THEM. SO, THE TOTAL IS HIGHER. IF YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE ACCOUNTING I SUGGEST YOU HAVE YOUR ACCOUNTANT LOOK AT IT.
“You should put County PDF’s down. That information can be updated and altered.” THOSE PDF’S ARE WHAT THEY CAMPAIGNED ON. AM I SUPPOSED TO SIMPLY ASSUME EVERYTHING THEY SAY ARE LIES AND DON’T MATTER?
“Your more concerned about future tax increases. When they occur, you’ll read about them in the paper.” VERY TRUE, BUT I PREFER TO BE PRO-ACTIVE.
“We’re all thankful no one can pick a future outcome.” NOT TRUE. THAT IS WHY WE HAVE WEATHER FORCASTERS. WHY WE DO MARKET RESEARCH. NOT 100% ACCURATE BUT BETTER THAN FLYING BLIND LIKE YOU PREFER.
“The City has to negotiate with parking garages downtown.” AND IF THEY DON’T?
“I have no control of corps. I can only tell them advantages of supporting the arena. How fast they make decisions, I won’t be the first to learn.” I THOUGHT YOU TOLD US ABOUT ALL YOUR CONNECTIONS.
“I’m trying to make sure future tax increases don’t happen by suggesting corporations get involved in the arena.” SO? YOU JUST TOLD US YOU HAVE ZERO INFLUENCE.
“so someone else buys you $5 worth of drinks.” Where do I meet that guy Tony? ;^)
Republican - you are correct that further increases of impervious surfaces will increase run-off. There are technologies available but they are not being used. I agree with Tony that we need higher density.
Actually I think this would be an interesting opportunity for the City/County to make a push for public transit. IF we had such a thing in Wichita that would relieve some of the pressure on parking. However, such a thing is NOT on the horizon.
ken - some good observations on casino, resorts, etc.
Ben,
Local executives, not CEO’s, are individuals I’ve talked with. Both friends corps have headquarters out of state. I’m sure a local official could make the decision.
I gave focus when they didn’t understand what the arena potentially won’t do.
Both went to the Big 12 basketball tourney in OKC. Separate guys that barely know each other. Each has their own ideas, why the arena should increase seats.
There are couple others, but those two work for corps that could invest in the arena properly.
Did the flood close that assisted facility? If not your warnings are just that. Warnings about the arena don’t mean its doomed.
Tony,
$184 Million number on the arena question, the tax is collecting more. The tax was for a certain time period.
City has issues all over town, but their free to put importance of some projects over others. City isn’t planning to break their budget creating parking for the arena.
If you hate what they do, harass the City Council, see how far that gets you.
To them, its in their best interest. City desired the arena downtown and they have to pay for the costs related to parking.
” City desired the arena downtown and they have to pay for the costs related to parking.”
So, Mrage, the fact that the County told the voters that parking was INCLUDED in the project being voted on is meaningless? they should not be held to their representations; representations upon which the voters justifiably relied?
Ben,
Where is the fraud? Can’t the County and City negotiate?
The Arena vote had to include parking costs estimates, but the plan is allowed to change.
City now wants parking responsibility, it came after the vote.
I don’t see the problem. The vote was legal and properly represented arena plan.
I hate fraud and misrepresentation like anyone else.
Revote or total boycott of the thing for me and mine.
“Where is the fraud?”
I have detailed that in the information linked above. Material misrepresentations were made in the Sept 2004 information presented to the public. I have posted that information; look at it for yourself. Have your accountant look at it.
We were told what the project would cost and what it would include. These representations are not being adhered to.
The city has never said it wants parking responsibility. However, they appear to be recognizing that if the County chooses not to do that which the County represented they would do that the City will be forced to make it up.
“I hate fraud and misrepresentation like anyone else.” Then go read the pdfs; compare “Then” and “Now”.
http://webnetassoc.com/Arena/
Ben
Wild West World cost more to build, the owners said.
Arena costs of construction and land acquisition, I don’t see the problem.
County isn’t overspending on the arena.
Do you have evidence City is upset they have to spend for the arena parking?
Maybe they proved the County, City has to be responsible for the parking and parking garage contracts.
County has issues financing the arena long term. They haven’t thrown up a red flag saying the tax isn’t affording the arena.
You think the County is full of yes people? No, it isn’t. If Commissioners found the arena financing a fraud, they would be protesting and walking out of meetings. Especially the new commissioners.
Inside every construction project is the ability for costs to rise, and people being upset at the planning.
Business reputations are on the line and none of them are doing this project badly, yet.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but it doesn’t seem like Mrage gets this at all.
I hope every business with a parking lot closes them or charges $50 per night to park.
I don’t see the city going through the city and paying private lot owners to allow for public parking for arena events.