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Community thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted June 4, 2007 at 1:00 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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49 Comments
Last night, I stopped by the neighborhood Dillon’s Store at Meridian and Douglas. Really convenient. While there, a customer/acquaintance mentioned the name of the street, Meridian, and asked about the source of it’s name.
So, here’s my explanation.
Back in about 1855-56, under the original territorial government of Kansas (Kansas officially became a state in 1861 when southern states walked out of the U.S. Senate) … it was determined that land surveys were needed to determine location of the state’s boundaries, to provide legal descriptions for land ownership and to delineate location of the original 200 acre allotments to the immigrant Shawnee Indians who had moved to Kansas from Ohio and eastern Missouri.
Two important base survey lines were established to serve Kansas, Nebraska, and parts of Colorado, Wyoming, and South Dakota.
The north-south base line is called the “sixth principal meridian,” and Meridian Street generally straddles that line. The east-west base line is the Kansas-Nebraska state line at 40 degrees north latitude.
The point where those two important survey lines cross is in/near a small town straight north of Wichita on the Kansas-Nebraska state line.
From these two base lines, our township and range lines are measured. As those with an agriculture background know, a “township” is six miles across. So it contains 36 square miles, more or less, numbering from #1 in the northeast corner of the township to #36 in the southeast corner of the Township.
Township lines run north-south six miles apart and range lines run east-west, six miles apart.
So, the first township on the east side of Meridian Street is commonly referred to as T1E and the first township west of Meridian Street is referred to as T1W and so on all the way to Colorado and Missouri.
The distance south from the Kansas-Nebraska state line to Wichita is about 165 miles. So divide by six miles on a side of a Township which gives about 27. Right on target, downtown Wichita is T27S.
Century II is in Section 20 so the legal description of that section would be Section 20, T27S, R1E of the Sixth Principal Meridian.
Of course, in platted urban areas, another method of legal desriptions is the lot/block/plat/municipal method.
Because of widening, jogs, waverings, etc. of Meridian Street over the years — the accurate location of the Sixth Principal Meridian” line might not be the present day center-line of Meridian Street.
Of course, LATITUDE/LONGITUDE LINES are a separate method of locating points on the surface of the earth but are not used in land surveying descriptions and are not related to property surveys.
Latitude lines are expressed in degrees as the measurement from the equator (0 degrees) north to the north pole (90 degrees). As you can guess, Wichita is about 1/3 of that distance, or about 38 degrees North of the equator.
Longitude lines are expessed in degrees as measured west or east of Greenwich, England. The 180 degree line is in the Pacific Ocean and is generally the International Date Line with some jogs to miss populated centers.
As you can guess, Wichita is about 1/4 th of the way around the globe from Greenwich, England. So Wichita’s longitude is about 97 degrees WEST from Greenwich, England.
Wow, thanks JWink… I knew about that Meridian was the dividing line but I didn’t know the rest of the info… Thanks. I like useless knowledge to mess with my friends with…
The Eagle is doing a ‘vote’ on the ‘8 wonders’ of Kansas. They had (I think) about 24 candidates listed. My suggestion to the Eagle:
Publish a sepcial pull-out section on all of these complete with maps, driving times, accomodation etc. These could make excellent day trips for Kansans, especially on a limited budget.
Go Joe!
Why waste time discussing the arena re-voters, just talk positively about the project and as Wichita, Sedgwick County grow in the future, we should have an arena that’s regionally sized.
We have to grow into the facility over time because the fan base hasn’t been figured out for some events yet.
College basketball fans are a given. What other events could sell out in the arena.
A larger arena could bid for the Big 12 tournament or MVC basketball tournament.
Wichita will be improved as a “wonder” with the downtown arena. Only community in the state building one.
We have so much more to do improving destinations people would want to visit.
Got to overcome that one Epic Center, boathouse didn’t rent boats and losing the Wranglers “shame”. Cowtown having their issues.
County may not feel those City losses and they shouldn’t add to those problems creating a small arena.
Like Exploration Place, the arena will be better off with a wider range of events, those increased seats could bring.
“College basketball fans are a given.” NOT! WSU plays at Koch. KU plays in Lawrence. KState plays in Manhatten.
What college basketball fans are you talking about?
March 2010. Will there be an NCAA regional in the Albino Pachyderm? NO.
Yea, why ‘waste time’ with the majority who believe this changed project should be examined. Just forge ahead and build it; the Hell with the people.
Ben,
It takes some marketing negotiations with WSU, KSU and KU.
Single off campus games. Or 4 team tournaments they could host from the arena.
Business in Wichita has to want those events first.
In both WSU and KSU consideration, the downtown arena will have more seats than their campus arena’s.
Your “majority” is an imagination, we’re not re-voting to find out.
Most people want to know what events the arena is going to bid for, to settle their feelings the arena will fail.
You have no idea of future events. Don’t believe the arena will work financially.
My majority has been shown clearly in both the KWCH poll and the Eagle poll. About 2-to-1. That is why you are so afraid of a vote on this changed project.
“Business in Wichita has to want those events first.” And if they don’t? I haven’t seen them flocking to support your arena with any cash.
“Most people want to know what events the arena is going to bid for, to settle their feelings the arena will fail.” Then have the hearings Joe! opposes.
“You have no idea of future events. Don’t believe the arena will work financially.” You also have no idea of future events. The County Commission has clearly stated that the Arena will run a deficit. They know that. I know that.
Actually you can find meridian points in Oklahoma when used for surveying back in the day. They still stand.
You will also notice that on rural dirt roads that every once in awhile as you travel through and come up to an intersection, that the road across the intersection will be a little off from being straight. The reason is that they are compensating for the curvature of the earth.
Ben,
You’ve been desiring polling numbers for a long time as a base argument.
Poll that mattered, when the vote happened.
Your believe deficits won’t be overcome, they will be overbearing on the County finances.
I believe from data, how other communities are using their arena’s. How those communities are bidding for events. If other communities have challenges with their arena’s, no one is thinking of closing them.
I can imagine events the arena could bid for. It’s SMG to do that marketing job.
We’ll see if business steps up to help create more seats and they minimize those county deficits you fear.
I hopeful about the arena, your not.
Majority have a better feeling about the arena if they knew more particulars.
People want to know future events instead of being concerned about deficits.
“We know from researching Arenas in other communities that we mustplan for operating deficits at the Downtown Arena.”
Do you disagree with that statement from the advertising for your arena? If you like, I will provide you with a copy of the document I quote that from. At the hearing of course.
“Majority have a better feeling about the arena if they knew more particulars.” Then why do you oppose the hearings that would accomplish that? After all, that would give you ample opportunity to bring forward all these corporations that you have wanting to contribute to your arena.
“We’ll see if business steps up to help create more seats” I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
“Poll that mattered, when the vote happened” And the voters approved a core cost arena at $123 million; not $179 million. That 45% increase is a taste of things to come.
I will happily provide to both you and Joe! written documentation to all of my claims at the hearings.
“People want to know future events instead of being concerned about deficits.” People I know are concerned about BOTH. And, since we have already determined that there will be no Big 12, no NCAA, just what ARE those future events.
March 2010 … what?
What I would like to know, MRage, is if your “people” who will be doing all the “recruiting” to get acts and games and all that other great stuff you expound upon happening in the “future” can’t get them here now with the Coliseum, how are they going to get them here then? If we can’t sell out the coliseum with fewer seats NOW for shows, how are we going to sell out shows at the arena with MORE seats and HIGHER costing tickets? It WON’T happen! and if it won’t happen, then WHY would a big name act want to come HERE when they KNOW they can go to OKC or KC, to a bigger venue where they are more likely to sell out and still get our local crowds that will drive there to go to the show, the same as they do now? While I am too young to know this for fact, I believe that people were probably sold for the same ideas on the Coliseum back when it was built and look where that has gotten us? Has the Coliseum even ever turned a profit over a fiscal year?
Ben,
I accept that statement, deficits will exist. I also believe they won’t be overwhelmingly prohibitive.
Will the arena take a loss every time Thunder plays, yes!
When events don’t sell out.
Every light will be on in the arena, so there is a cost, some events won’t cover. How much staff in the kitchen or security will be there on half filled event nights.
The goal is getting the best events possible and for that to happen, the arena needs increased seats.
Events that could be on national TV. SMG should be here right now publicly saying those things.
Your using the “limbo” time we are in today to complain. Waiting on the parking plan and for the property acquisitions to be finished.
In this null void, I’m hoping business steps in.
More conversations about events possible in the arena, could have lessened complaints about the facility over these last few months.
If both unanswered questions are equal, the deficits and what events are possible, pick the more hopeful answer.
anon,
The Coliseum isn’t large enough or styled well to be an attractive facility for events.
WSU isn’t going to play there. KSU won’t either. They have better facilities on their campus.
Both played at the Coliseum against each other when Koch was being built.
KU doesn’t know where the Coliseum is.
Our downtown arena will be larger than those schools arena’s.
SMG was hired by the county to go after the college basketball games and bid for tournaments.
It will take business in Wichita and Sedgwick County who have marketing interests, to help SMG get events. Colleges need TV and financial package to play downtown, that’s the way it works.
Business can help SMG sooner by increasing more seats in the arena.
Why would events come to our arena in Kansas? That’s what your talking about. Events can go into Missouri at the Sprint Center all they want.
Events search for facilities and money to be made. No matter where it is. Our arena can act like the Sprint Center or Ford Center, Qwest Center and BOK Center to get events.
Events want to come and visit Wichita just like other communities. We haven’t built a facility those events could use.
Our arena with 15,000 seats is larger than WSU and KSU facilities.
Not KU…that sentence was in the wrong place.
I do not know what preconceived notion that the anti-arena group believes that the downtown arena will become such an overbearing cost hog that it will cause Sedgwick County bankruptcy.
Many of the anti-arena group actually believes that if this downtown arena gets built, it’s spells doom to Wichita and everybody will be forced to pay huge taxes in order just to keep the lights on.
I don’t know were they get this idea. It’s silly conspiratorial BS. Even organized members of the re-vote group, most notably, JWink, believes in this secret society ran by communist that has taken hold of the City since the late 1880’s. It’s so ridiculous, but he is the face of the re-vote group and believing him that the new downtown arena will spell chaos to the financial wellbeing of Sedgwick County based on this nay saying vision of the future through his fortune telling, palm reading glass ball.
If you want to follow a fool, that’s fine, go right ahead.
Ben! Yeah! Looking forward to any documentation that says the county promised to stick to the exact figures of the preliminary budget and by doing so they broke promises and the law.
Let me know. Maybe you can get JWink’s bluebook on Wichita where Century II is actually a secret alien spaceship waiting to take off one day. I’m pretty sure there you can find your documents.
Joe! I will gladly give you a hard copy of the source of my quote about covering deficits! At the hearing! then you can rebut all of my claims!
I am not interested in your hallucinations about some ‘blue book’; I recommend that you get treatment for that. I’ll stick to my sources that have nothing to do with him or any other similar group.
I will provide you copies at the hearing before I speak.
Since there will be no hearings I will simply bide my time until they need additional operating subsidies. THEN I will use them. Hopefully, with new County Commissioners by then we can block the operating subsidies. Then you can find the money to keep your arena running.
In fact, I know a few methods you can use for that. These were developed by the same people who told the County years ago that they would need additional land acquisitions for road improvements. This has since been claimed to have been unforeseen by the County.
When are you going to speak Ben?
“We know from researching Arenas in other communities that we mustplan for operating deficits at the Downtown Arena.”
Joe! Do you dispute that statement?
At the hearing; when they have a time certain. I have a full-time job; I will arrange for time off.
Moving back to a topic I think we can agree on: comments on my 8AM post? Agree? Disagree?
No! Have I ever claimed that the downtown arena will make a profit for the county?
I have said over and over again, venues like the Zoo, Century II, Kansas Coliseum, libraries and every park you can think of and etc have always had an operation deficit. They don’t make money. It is considered a community amenity.
Once again! I said there is nothing to worry about with the new Downtown Arena, because all of the money budgeted to run the operation of Britt Brown will go towards the downtown arena. It will not cost that much more to run than Britt Brown.
You might not think an arena is considered a public amenity, but I do and so does the majority of the people who voted for it.
If you feel that an arena shouldn’t be publicly funded or then that is your opinion and do what ever you can to kill the downtown arena project, and if you are successful in doing that, then the next step would for you to have the county mothball, close and demolish the Kansas Coliseum.
Then you can patiently wait for a big money person to come along and built an arena for us without public funds. I’ll warn you, you will wait forever.
Joe! I think another guy made some good points about the need for damage control in view of the fact that a majority of citizens have turned against what thos project has morphed into. He noted that perhaps hearings couuld accomplish that; make it clear what is going on and why core costs have gone up 45%.
Who knows, maybe some corporations might even come forward and provide support like they do with other venues in Sedgwick County. It is interesting to me that not a single private company has offered support for this thing.
Why do you fear a hearing to air it all out? Since you claim to still have a majority why do you fear voting the $178 million core costs project to take place of the $123 million core costs project we voted on?
If you question my figures the source documents have been posted on a link. IF we air it all out they will be made available to you.
Hold the hearings! Air it all out! What are you afraid of?
Hold the hearings! Air it all out! What are you afraid of?
I said lets have a public forum on this, but lets do it after August 7th, so as a community we can engage in discussion about if we would like a Casino in our area. Let’s not get distracted from the Casino vote.
But Ben! You voted against the Downtown Arena to begin with, so trying to force the county to comply with their preliminary projections is not your real concern. You wish is to have them kill the project all together.
By the way. You think this isn’t the first time:
http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/stories/2002/05/13/story2.html?page=1
Read about what was going on during Century II and the Kansas Coliseum, and let me know about cost overruns on each project and what the county said it’s purpose was going to be but changed it and so on.
If you hold true to your principle, then I ask for you to request the County Commissioners to also demolish the Kansas Coliseum and Century II.
Joe! You are, as usual, full of “manure”! Of course, from a guy who doesn’t know the difference between gross sales and free cash flow that comes as no surprise.
If the County will return to what they advertised I will delete my request for a hearing and vote.
What purpose would be served by hearings AFTER the opportunity for a vote? WHY DO YOU FEAR A VOTE? YOU ARE A COWARD!
Of course, perhaps we should put the new version of your Arena on the ballot for Aug 7 and NOT have hearings. Is THAT what you want?
Your final suggestion is so rediculousm as to not be worthy of a response.
By the way, when you claimed that Gander Mountain pays the City 25% of sales – YOU WERE LYING!
Go back to my statement about Gander Mountain and I said the city receives 25% of cash flow. I didn’t say gross sales, you said “gross sales”. Go back Ben!
I just said that gross sales were a part of cash flow. And where do you get your information that Gander uses the free cash flow accounting method? Or are you just guessing.
I did make a mistake though, by calculating the city’s revenue stream from Gander was 2.5 million a year. It’s probably less than that, and I haven’t looked into it, but I suspect probably receive about 1 million a year.
You have to remember that Gander doesn’t have any mortgage or debt on that building and they are leasing it for only $1 a year, so that builds up the retail gross sales minus the cost to favor the city’s side.
So no Ben! I didn’t lie! I said the accurate statement and that the city made an arrangement for 25% of cash flow. So you are the one lieing about what I said.
Ben! Bring it on. Try you little puny heart out to kill the arena project. I’m not afraid. Try you damnedest. I’m not standing in your way. Although I will not sit back and let the anti-arena group sit there a lie to the public about the arena project.
The balls in your court. I’m not afraid of a re-vote or a public forum. But you are the one afraid of the downtown arena. So keep on being afraid.
Ben! I hate to say this, but I’m better than you on debate. Every point you try to throw, I knock it straight out of the park. You have nothing on me.
So I encourage you to keep your feeble attempts. But I’m the prize fighter and you’re just another sparring partner.
Joe! You haven’t touched any of my points. You simply say “it doesn’t matter” that we were subjected to bait and switch. That is why you fear an open hearing. I will happily face you; I will also give you written copy.
Joe! you said 25% os SALES! then when I asked for substantiation you changed your story! I get my info about Gander from Morningstar and their Annual Reports.
Joe! You will get your Arena. I have no doubt about that. Unruh will see to that. Hopefully he will follow Sciortino out the door as his reward. Then we shall see.
Obviously in Unruh’s view you will best me; his mind is made up. That is why you will probably not see my documentation; the County will not allow a hearing. They fear that as well.
Join me Joe! in asking for a hearing and a vote. Display your intellectual superiority in that hearing and then breeze to victory in the vote. Go for it! Unless you are afraid of course …
“Gander Mountain is leasing it from the city and they give them 25% of all sales to the city”
Note the word SALES Joe!
By the way, cash flow is not only after rent (which as you noted is free) but also COGS, salaries, and other overhead. Ask your accountant.
OOPS! Not quite free; one dollar.
Predictions:
There will be no hearings.
There will be no vote.
The Arena will be built with additional cost overruns.
Core costs will over-run by 50%
The City will underwrite much of the un-done infrastructure.
Casino will pass 2-to-1.
Sunday sales, if on the ballot, will also pass 2-1.
Big 12 men’s tourney will never be in Wichita.
NCAA men will never be in Wichita.
Bowling tournament will not be recovered.
Question: what events should I look forward to in 2010?
You’re right. I made a boo boo. I went back and I said sales. But it is cash flow.
Any votes for the “8 wonders of Kansas”?
A mighty big boo boo – and would never have been retracted had I not pointed out the falsehood.
Ben! If we had your way, there wouldn’t be an event happening at Britt Brown either, because it would have been closed for renovations.
But I don’t think your cost overruns is right. It’s budgeted at $178 million max. I predict it will go under budget by $8 million.
Not too mighty! Sales is a part of cash flow, so technically, I’m correct.
Ben,
>Question: what events should I look forward to in 2010?
A moving van, workers breaking your things. Changing address information.
Why in the world stay in a city soawful predicable.
Everything fails, damn.
The Casino vote passes but a half done project happens. Like the Epic Center. WaterWalk finished by 08…2012 maybe.
The arena should never open. Close the Coliseum too.
Whew, lets all sleep better.
Get drunk on Sundays, too! Won’t have to drive far to do it.
So, Mrage, you join with Joe! and tell anyone who disagrees with you to leave town! Typical!
I love you waterwalk by 08 … 2012 maybe.
So, Mrage, what events in your Arena?
By the way, I plan to vote FOR casino.
And Joe! The fact that gross sales is a COMPONENT of cash flow does not make you ‘technically’ correct. You statement was false, plain and simple. Go take a few accounting classes; they are very useful.
Did you get your telephone excise tax refund on your 2006 return? You were entitled to one.
Mrage – have fun getting drunk on Sundays if that is what turns you on!
Back tp positive I tried to start first thing this morning. Interested that none of the cheerleaders here have any ideas of the ‘8 wonders’.
Oh well …
Ben,
You disagree with such arena failure and city disaster, what hope is there?
There is no moving you from those thoughts.
You think idiots want the arena and can’t see the problems with it.
Problems are not in the facilities as a idea, maybe when their constructed badly. But the real problems exist in human feelings and actions.
Your suggesting total failure by people trying to get events to town and no one sitting in the arena seats.
The County and SMG will try, then fail repeatedly getting events.
I’m not telling you to move, why stay with such civic failure about to happen.
To be honest. I know a lot of talented young people here in Wichita that voted for the arena, and if it was voted down they would have left town. We have a hard time keeping young people, which has an economic impact loss of $500,000,000 because of people like Ben and that kook from that meth infested town of Pratt name JWink, who hates Wichita anyways.
Their vision is one of stagnation, retirement homes, and no jobs and entertainment for young families. But they are in the minority.
As part of the Visioneering process, it was our goal to spend at least $140 million a year with various public and private investment on Downtown Wichita. The arena is a part of that and a part of Visioneering Wichita. Although JWink has made it clear that he hates Visioneering Wichita. It’s just another conspiracy theory to him.
And Ben! I admitted I made an error about saying sales. I was going off on memory about the Gander Mountain deal and I thought it was 25% of something and I said sales, but when I check the sources as per your request it was cash flow. But I’m still right on the original premise that the City of Wichita didn’t not give a dime of subsidies to Gander Mountain. You can that other dude both believed that but you were wrong. So do you admit you were wrong about Gander Mountain?
Ben: Perhaps I didn’t read the EAGLE’s top ten list very well so I will submit my own.
1) The Gypsum or red hills and valleys along the Medicine River in Barber County, near Medicine Lodge.
2) The south branch of the Ninnescah River in the vicinity of Pratt. It begins west of town and runs through the Pratt Fish Hatchery spawning ponds just east of Pratt. Also include the Pratt Fish Hatchery Museum and aquarium surrounded by huge Cottonwood trees. This relaxing area dates back some 70 years.
3) Esplanade Street that runs along the high west bank of the Missouri River just north of downtown Leavenworth, Kansas. The view eastward over the Missouri River many miles into Missouri provides a great view. It was on Esplanade, which has another name as it intersects with Delaware Street in Leavenworth, where the old Planter Hotel stood. On the steps of that historic hotel, Abraham Lincoln gave a short speech when he visited Kansas for a few days in a cold, harsh winter of 1859.
4) The residence of the grandparents of Amelia Earhart in Atchison, Kansas. This house was also situated on a high bluff on west side of the Missouri River looking eastward over the river far into Missouri. It’s easy to see where Amelia got her inspiration to fly from that view.
5) Greensburg’s “World’s deepest handdug well.” This well was dug in the 1880’s to reach the Ogallala water below to provide water for the municipal water supply and for the steam engines of the two railroads that once ran through Greensburg. These were the main line cross-country line of the Rock Island Railroad and a feeder line of the Santa Fe Railroad that came from Wichita. This Santa Fe line was later pulled back to Pratt. The rather boring well was made world famous by being included in “Believe it or not by Ripley.” And, of course, back in the 1930’s, 40’s and 50’s, Highway 54 was a heavily traveled national highway which advertised as being the “shortcut” from Chicago to southern California via El Paso.
6) The hills surrounding Lawrence, Kansas, that were formed by the last ice age when ice pushed gravel and rocks on the leading edge where it stopped in the vicinity of Lawrence.
7) The geologic mystery located in the vicinity of Ford, Kansas, southeast of Dodge City. What was it that turned the Arkansas River from its southeastward direction there to proceed northeast towards Great Bend, Kansas?
8) The amazing story of the Shawnee Indians life in Kansas from about 1830 to 1870 after they moved to Kansas from Ohio and eastern Missouri. These Shawnee Indians included descendents of Tecumseh or more accurately Tecumseh’s brother, Tenskawatawa, were very intelligent, long-lived, well aculturated with Euro-Americans and with French and English officers in the late 1700’s. After surviving the Civil War years in Kansas, in 1870 they moved on from Kansas to northeastern Oklahoma.
9) The strip pits that resulted from strip mining of coal, zinc etc. in southeastern Kansas. This mining brought an eclectic mix of cultures to the Pittsburg, Kansas area which in turn produced many interesting family owned restaurants before the advent of today’s fast food restaurants.
10) Struggling now — should include something from northwestern Kansas — such as the Chalk bluffs. Or from southwestern Kansas — such as the artesian wells that used to jump from the ground in Meade County State Park. I have been told these springs no longer exist with the dropping of the Ogallala water level.
11) That’s it, the Ogallala aquifer is truly one of the natural wonders of the world. It exists under much of western Kansas and, for that matter, under western Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas panhandle and eastern Colorado. Unfortunately, thanks to our politicians, the Ogallala is being drained dry by enormous pumping of the water for agriculture, ethanol production and power plants.
But the use and depletion of the Ogallala aquifer is another story in itself and I’m out of time now.
Jwink…
Good list… I hadnt thought about a few of thoes… I think ill put it on my “to visit” list.
Thanks
“I know a lot of talented young people here in Wichita that voted for the arena, and if it was voted down they would have left town.”
I call BS on you Joe… I don’t know a single young person (keep in mind i am a young person) that would leave town specifically if they didn’t build the arena. Most young people leave this town because the old farts don’t work with us young people. They get sick of the discrimination and leave. I would love to leave this town to develop my businesses else ware but now im rooted here…
Tony! Joe! says that we should boycott your business because you are forced to collect the sales tax! Isn’t that a wonderful way to encourage you to stay!
It’s sort of funny. The only eprson to step up with positives to highlight was a “Wichita hater” (according to Joe! and Mrage)
Joe Williams is right. Wichita paid the subsidy to the developers of Waterwalk, not to Gander Mountian directly.
A distinction without a difference, if there ever was one.
This is just another example of Joe “Mr. Liberty” Williams twisting himself into a pretzel in order to claim libertarian beliefs while acting as a “Chamber of Commerce” Republican.
I suspect we will see more of this at tomorrow’s Sedgwick County Commission meeting, in which comrade Williams is scheduled to speak.
Joe, at least guys like Bob Hanson and Ed Wolverton are honest with themselves. They don’t see anything wrong with the public as a whole paying for something that benefits a select few, and they admit it.
But someone who claims a belief in limited government and liberty, for that person to support a government-owned entertainment palace and statist processes like Visioneering Wichita, that must be a terrible contradiction for you to bear.
Tony, there’s a fellow who used to post in favor of the arena named “Shocker’07″ who claimed he planned to move to Denver, even though the arena measure passed.
So he gets his way, we are stuck with the plaything he wanted, and he leaves anyway. What a sore winner!
anon – he is just doing what Joe! says people should do – if you don’t want to pay the tax you should abandon Wichita!
When I attended one of the City Council meetings on the WaterWalk the room was packed with very vocal supporters of the project. Turns out they were all employed by the developers doing the project and were paid to be there.
Definitely puts an ordinary citizen whose employer expects him to be ‘on station’ at a distinct disadvantage. Too bad they don’t hold any of these meetings outside of the regular work day.
I wonder why? NOT!