Today is a key date in the local expanded gaming debate. That’s because the Kansas Lottery Commission has on its agenda today whether to certify Sumner County’s 2005 referendum vote supporting expanded gaming. The Kansas attorney general’s office already has issued an informal opinion that the vote complies with the requirements of the law.
If the commission accepts the vote, as expected, that means if Sedgwick County voters decide against expanded gaming, a large casino likely will be built in Sumner County. So the Sedgwick County vote on Aug. 7 won’t be about whether a casino and its social costs should come to the area. The question will be where the casino might be located — in Sedgwick County or to the south.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- ANTI on Goldman Sachs ‘apology’ hollow
- Phinatic on It’s the stupidity about the economy
- ANTI on Open thread 11/24
- Phantom on Goldman Sachs ‘apology’ hollow
- gster on Goldman Sachs ‘apology’ hollow
- Phantom on Huckabee felt costs of campaign
- Phantom on Huckabee felt costs of campaign
- GMC70 on Open thread 11/24
- Phantom on Huckabee felt costs of campaign
- okobserver on Open thread 11/24
59 Comments
Place the casino at the old refinery on 21st street. It’ll mean more difficulties for me to get to work but it is a great location. It’s near the highway and there is ample space for construction and parking and the location needs to be cleaned up anyway.
The 21st street old refinery is a poor location. It is an industrial area and not a single casino developer is even remotely thinking about even pitching the idea for that location.
Yeah! Place a casino in the middle of scrap metal facilities and junk yards with tons of freight trains coming through everyday not including the stench of oilseed processing and near one of the highest crime area in the city. *shakes head* Wishful thinking.
But the question isn’t so much as downtown, Park City or whatever. As the topic says; Where will it be located, meaning Sedgwick or Sumner. Voters choice on August 7th. You decide.
How about Las Vegas as the location for the Casino? :)
Kansas should be so proud to be the first state in the country to own and operate casinos.
Why doesn’t Nevada own casinos?
Why doesn’t Nevada own casinos?
Posted by: sotheysaid | June 22, 2007 at 08:24 AM
Private $$
I’m sort of surprised nobody has come up with a site south of Wichita – along the Turnpike. Of course, Winfield would be such a site outside of Sedgwich County. The advantage is that it would get travellers going on the Turnpike as well as those who had come via I-135 and I-235 from the north.
An unconstitutional and the first state owned casino in the United States.
Any legislator that voted for this should be voted out of office.
The Casino must be part of a large entertainment complex. Stop spreading things out in different locations.
The city council et al need to take a bus trip and visit BrickTown in Okla. City. You must have a Critical Mass of different things all in one place. NOT one in Park City, One at the Coliseum, One in Winfield etc. Nonsense.
IF you are going to have a WaterWalk, then you must have the riverbank lined with restaurants, botiques, clubs, art studio’s and all kinds of different amenities. Think San Antonio here…People can go to different venues without having to drive all over the area. More opportunities in one area.
The sidewalks should be filled with people going from one restaurant to club to casino, or just to people watch. Perhaps even sidewalk vendors etc.
Dont get the mind set of a single entity here and one over there.
Try Bricktown in OKCity some Saturday night when there is a concert and baseball game. People floating down the Canadian River on Gondolas and rafts, eating at Tobies, tailgating in the huge parking lot of the Downtown baseball park and then going to restaurants or clubs. Bands on top of local restaurants etc.
Or stay at the refurbished 50 million dollar old Haunted Skirvin Hotel downtown.
http://www.legendsofamerica.com/OK-SkirvinHotel.html
Don’t worry about linking the new casino with other entertainment venues. Once the casino arrives all the other entertainment options will die out and the casino will be the only thing left standing. For every job added two will be taken away.
mrbill – I have been to R-walk in San Antonio and I agree. However, with a casino I wonder if we aren’t looking at a self-contained entity. Sort of a WalMart of entertainment? Gaming, bars, restaurants, shows all in one complex?
Ben, not a bad idea, but I could see incorporating a casino complex into the overall River Walk plan.
Just please don’t give us anything like the casino in Newkirk.
XXX – has that been done successfully elsewhere?
One thing I loved about R-walk in San Antonio was that I figured I could eat all I wanted since I walked it all off! Our lifestyles have become far too sedentary; the lack of pedestrian-friendly places is a part of the problem.
Looking at Old Town, I would love to see vehicle traffic restricted from the brick streets so they can be walked without dodging vehicles.
Well Joe, it’s not like you offered any ideas. The old refinery is being cleared so there’s plenty of land available. Crime isn’t high in the area. The train tracks are being elevated so they won’t block traffic. The city is planning on revitalizing the entire area. If you don’t like the scrap yards there’s an incredible invention called a fence which would block any viewing of such images that taint your precious view.
As I said before it’s by the highway so it’s easy to find for tourists. It’s also on the bus routes so it’s easily accessible for anyone. So it’s a place where there’s land available (guess no bonus for paying excessive prices to destroy old buildings), plenty of parking, won’t clog traffic and so on. How’s that a bad idea?
We can’t pick where the casino will go. “They” are developers with sites already picked out.
The announced developers;
Canadians want Century II area.
Ruffin/Trump on his property downtown.
Bob Knight’s Tribe Casino out in Park City.
This isn’t like the arena, picking a few sites, community discussing and still arguing about the downtown location.
Wichita won’t financially benefit from the Casino if its not placed within city limits.
Forget Park City, no matter the County is asking for Casino developer bids at the Coliseum site.
Bob Knight considers Britt Brown for a parking garage.
County wants a casino downtown to support the arena, I’m sure.
City wants it downtown, has been discussing with Canadians for a long time.
Ruffin hasn’t received the ruling determining ownership of his casino idea.
The Topeka legislation banned him from owning a casino since he got the dog track slots.
I thought he would hate being involved with the state run casino.
Ruffin shouldn’t get ownership of all the slots in this County.
Doug – WDDC wants it downtown. They have made that clear and they will tell us how horrible ANY other site is. The ONLY sites being considered by WDDC is the Ruffin building and the C-II area.
I agree with you, a Brownsfields development, as has been done in other cities, makes a lot of sense. However, that would take it out of downtown and WDDC opposes ANYTHING that would take it out of downtown.
“The Topeka legislation banned him from owning a casino since he got the dog track slots.” WRONG. They ruled that because the ‘entities’ are distinct he is NOT ruled out.
Ruffin would be king of the slots in the whole state? Two locations with slots at dog tracks and a casino downtown?
He can always grease palms to make the ruling more clear.
I’m thinking your preferring Ruffin’s plan so Century II stays the way it is.
So far the only change there, SMG taking over management.
With the Canadians nearby, fate of Century II is foggy in years ahead. Can the Arts exist next to a casino.
“Ruffin would be king of the slots in the whole state? Two locations with slots at dog tracks and a casino downtown?”
There IS Kansas outside of Sedgwich County. Even IF Ruffin gets both sites in Sedgwick County (which I doubt will happen) that does not make him king of slots throughout the state.
XXX – has that been done successfully elsewhere?Posted by: Ben | June 22, 2007 at 12:41 PM
Ben,I’m not the one to ask since I’m not big on gambling myself. The reason I mentioned it is, Mrs. XXX and I stopped in at Newkirk on our way back from our honeymoon and it really struck me as a place I wouldn’t enjoy. We didn’t spend a dime. The only experience I have to compare it to is when I took my 86 year-old aunt to Shreveport and the most fun part of that was watching Auntie have fun on the nickel slots. We were there for Halloween, so it was a huge party. But Shreveport is the only casino experience I have in this country.
Shreveport – is that a part of a bigger area or a stand-alone complex?
I’m not ‘into’ gambling either but have visited a few casinos so that I would have some sort of basis of understanding. All the ones I have seen tend to be self-contained. Montreal had a smaller footprint since it was multi-story. That is why I have tended to go with ‘isolated’ sites as good possibilities.
Looking at downtown how about the area SOUTH of the Hyatt. Basically the footprint from the Hyatt to Kellogg and the River to Main. Use the Boathouse as a restaurant and leave GM there, at least for the time being. There seems to be quite a bit of vacant land there and I think the City already owns it.
Shreveport has 7 casinos IIRC, several downtown, and some across the river. 6 were nice; one was a low-class dump. I had opportunity to talk to some locals. They had nothing but good to say about the casinos. As I understood it, downtown Shreveport had gotten pretty run-down. That changed when the casinos were built. Downtown Shreveport isn’t anything to write home about, but it struck me as clean and well-kept. My cousin and I put Auntie to bed early and walked the streets late at night to get from casino to casino. It was well lit and we didn’t have any problems. But we’re both big guys.
Several of the casinos had nice large hotels. We stayed in one that was as nice as I’ve ever stayed in; multi story affair. In Shreveport the casinos have to be on a “boat”. That basically seems to mean they have to be surrounded by water. One of the casinos had a million dollars mounted on the walls of the “gangplank”.
Overall, my impression of Shreveport and their casinos was very positive.
My question XXX is this: do the casinos in Shreveport foster going to other nearby establishments or do they tend to be ’self-contained’ or ‘all-inclusive’? My thinking is that if it the former then one downtown might trigger adjacent activity. If it is the letter then it won’t and then I would tend to look at something like 21st St/135 or Park City.
I don’t have a dog in this fight; I have no relationship with Ruffin, Knight, WDDC, Park City, Winfield or anyone else. I am just trying to figure out what would be best for S-Central Kansas.
For those who believe a downtown Wichita casino will be a big draw for out of town customers:
If you do a little arithmetic with the CCA study, you’ll find that 97% of the expected revenue for a Wichita casino will come from customers within a 50 mile radius.
91% from within a 25 mile radius.
Ben, I did some shopping around Shreveport while I was there, bought some clothes, went to a couple of eateries outside of the casinos,visited a couple of specialty shops nearby. No place seemed real busy during the day. I probably spent $250 outside of the casinos.
Unquestionably, the casinos were the big draw. The casinos across the river (not downtown) seemed to have a lot more surrounding business.
Ben, I did some shopping around Shreveport while I was there, bought some clothes, went to a couple of eateries outside of the casinos,visited a couple of specialty shops nearby. No place seemed real busy during the day. I probably spent $250 outside of the casinos.
Unquestionably, the casinos were the big draw. The casinos across the river (not downtown) seemed to have a lot more surrounding business.
XXX – that is why I tend to lean away from downtown for a site.
I see pros and cons for all of the sites being bandied about.
If casinos are such a drain on area businesses then their wouldn’t be nothing in Vegas expect casinos but having been their that’s certainly not the case
Ben – yes the casino could be a complete entertainment center,,,but some will not be comfortable with the gambling perhaps. I think the casino would draw a mass of people that would then provide the numbers that would then evolve into other restaurants etc. that are NOT gambling oriented.
The casino would essentially subsidize with “reason” rather than subsidize with “money” for people of all types to come to the area.
With a myriad of people out and about the street vendors could be licensed and appear for a fun carnival type atmosphere.
But again, there is a “mass” needed in an area. You cant have people going to ONE thing, the be expected to be enticed to something else 10 miles away…wont happen. Especially if the Casino turns into a mega internal complex..
Why not just raise taxes and steal more money from the citizens the honest way?
Can’t wait to see all the casino advertising “You Can’t Win If You Don’t Play!” “Strike It Rich at the Kansas Kasino!”
Yes, they will have the obligatory token funding of Gamblers Support Hotlines, to help those stupid people who spent their last dime to Strike it Rich.
But, why not just be direct? Don’t disguise the tax increase thru a Kasino, take it directly by raising taxes!
If we would just give out cigarettes in the public schools in 6th grade, we could raise more tax revenue from increased cigarette sales!
Say man, let’s legalize WEED! Then Kansas can tax WEED, and raise more revenue that way!
Wouldn’t it be great to go to the store for a six pack and a quarter pound!
Hey, we could have a drive thru and get quarter pounders! Heh heh he, sorta like McDonalds! Maybe McDonalds will even sell McWeed!Heh heh.
Ya man, that would be great, get your McWeed McQuarter Pounder and a quarter pound burger for the munchies! Ya man! Let’s do it!
Say, why not make hookers honest women by legalizing prostitution? Kansas would reap tons of taxes and the men would be much less grumpy. Would cut down on some crime too, as the pimp wouldn’t be needed anymore.
How did Winfield get into the mix? Winfield is in Crowley County. Last I checked, Crowley has not had a Casino vote. And how can it be a convenient place for travelers? Winfield is more than 20 miles off the beaten path of I-35?
The Casino proposals submitted to the Kansas Lottery must show a minimum of $225 million facility. That is much more than just a Casino. It’s hotels, shops and etc.
On the superfund site, known as the old Derby Refinery, for which some people are so adamant that it’s such a great spot, well go get investors and casino developers and convince them to spend upwards of $300 million to put one there.
I was talking to a business man who owns several truck stops down in Oklahoma today and I told him about the old refinery site and said it would make a great truck stop. A nice one with truck washes a facility with a restaurant, showers and etc. I told him there wasn’t one like that anywhere close and something like that would pull in tons of truckers. Plenty of space to pave huge tracts of parking space for truckers to camp overnight. He said it was intriguing and he said he would have his peeps look into it.
Now that’s talking to people with money.
So far there is only three serious proposals. We are talking about investors/developers with cash to put on the table. Serious candidates. Bob Knight’s group, Canadians, and Ruffin/Trump.
Once the election takes place, the Kansas Lottery isn’t going to give much time for people to submit proposals. I suspect a deadline by the end of this year. So for all the other people who have great ideas on which to place a Casino, better hurry up and find those deep pockets.
As far as Ben suggesting South of the Hyatt! I know why you said that. I’ll just leave it at that.
Was probably thinking Wellington. Basically thinking about possible locations on the ‘Pike between Wichita and Oklahome.
Joe! If you have connections with money people to bring a truck stop to the Derby site very good! Last week it was an intermodal transit/warehouse facility! What will it be next week?
So Joe! Why did I bring up south of the Hyatt? Maybe the fact that there is zero commercial development there has something to do with it?
Think Knight will look at Britt Brown? I know the County would sure love to unload it!
I told the guy that the city is looking at developing an intermodal port there. This is a little further north near the train tracks. And by the way Ben! They aren’t elevating the tracks at 21st St.
That is why it’s a perfect fit. Trucks will need diesel and the truckers will need a great facility in which to hang out while waiting for their cargo. It’s a great opportunity. The Intermodal Port is real! I gave you the link to the City of Wichita’s study and planning for this.
Wellington might have shot themselves a little bit too late on the Casino off of the Turnpike. There isn’t much room left after the new Wal-Mart is finished and the new high school they built there too. I’m sure the Kansas Lottery will not like a Casino complex within 1000ft of a school. That is why WSU’s study said Downtown Wellington, because that is the only probability now.
No development south of the Hyatt? Ummm! WaterWalk?
“Ummm! WaterWalk?”
Yea, WaterWalk??????????
How many years has that been on the drawing boards? Hasn’t the WaterFRONT gone from dream to vibrant reality while WaterWalk collected cobwebs?
“It’s a great opportunity. The Intermodal Port is real! I gave you the link to the City of Wichita’s study and planning for this.” SO WHAT? I have been reading about that and other proposals for the site for TWO DECADES! It is NOT REAL!
Care to give me a groundbreaking date?
By the way, according to Janis Hellard of Sumner County they have three developers expressing “definite” interest in a Turnpike site. (Today’s paper copy Wichita Business Journal). Bob Knight is one of them.
Wild Card – remember, this has to pass August 7. While we are all assuming it will that is NOT a sure bet. I have seen bigger upsets in elections.
” have seen bigger upsets in elections.”
Like, Bush / Gore???
NO. Like what happened to the Democratic Party in Illinois in 1986. They had a typical contested contests all down tha ballot in Chicago and across the state. However, the top spots – Gov, Lt. Gov., Sec State were “uncontested” so nobody paid attention to them.
However. Two followers on Lyndon LaRouche filed for two of those offices (LtGov and SoS) against the ‘regular’ candidates. (Think of a couple of Phelps followers filing) So, while the two main factions in the Party had their ’slate cards’ for their candidates they in theory agreed on the top … however they also left them off the slate cards.
I remember commenting to a couple of officials in Cook County (Chicago) that I had a bad feeling about the election – that the Party might get blind-sided. They told me there was no chance of that happened; the Party was united behind Stevenson Jr for Gov and the rest of the top of the ticket.
Well, the morning after the Primary showed different. The LaRouche candidates had won those slots. Adlai Stevenson resigned the nomination for Governor and the Party had just about its worst debacle in modern Illinois history.
Nobody could figure out how it happened but a careful analysis of the numbers showed it: the vote totals on the top of the ticket were much lower than down-ballot. And, the LaRouche group was well organized.
It was a wild election.
Um Ben! The Coastal Derby Refinery site was still in operation up to 2004.
*shakes head* Dude! You’re temper is something else.
Yea, Joe! As a minor repackageing facility! And the City has owned property north of there (Bridgeport) for decades.
How many times have you been inside the facility? I visited there a number of times back in the early 90s for various reasons.
“shakes head” dude? Your (correct useage) ignorance is something else.
Well Ben! Go Jwink the Casino vote here in Sedgwick County. Join Mark Karr’s anti-casino group and have the question voted down this August.
That is the only way your Wellington (or should I say Winfield in your case) Casino will happen.
Joe! When did I say I was going to work against the Casino vote? I NEVER DID AND YOU KNOW THAT!
So, your last post is even more ignorant than your usual.
By the way, where is “Crowley County”? I have never heard of it; I don’t think there is a “Crowley County” in Kansas.
I think there is a Cowley County. I used to visit a joint called the Green door there way back in 1964.
And I don’t have a Wellington Casino either. I don’t have a Park City casino. You are fully aware of those facts too.
I simply am considering all possibilities with an open mind. Since I am NOT connected to the WDDC I am concerned with ALL of Wichita, Sedgwick County, and South-central Kansas. So, I see pros and cons to ALL of the possible sites and raise them all.
Tell me this Joe! How does having it downtown benefit citizens in Goddard, Maize, etc compared to a freeway location? Try to take a wider view than just the narrow WDDC viewpoint.
Now, for a site that cannot be considered but still intriguing to me for many years: El Dorado just west of the Turnpike at 254. Easy access from Emporia, Wichita, Newton area (via K-196) and all over. I remember thinking about that many years ago. Of course, Butler County is clearly out.
http://yesyeswinwin.com/index.php
Very well done site Joe! I still don’t see a big advantage to me and my home town of a downtown location and, for example, Britt Brown. I can, however, see an advantage of keeping it out of Park City (the 1% they would get)
Poorly written above … meaning an advantage to downtown VS Britt Brown.
And, with the County’s desire to unload it as evidenced by their discussion last Wednesday I am sure they would back a BB site if they get a good response to their RFP.
well, this will be interesting to watch unfold over the next several weeks. Right now I think it is a toss-up.
Till later …
XXX, a couple of years ago I was researching casinos, particularly those in Shreveport-Bosier City. At that time, there were 22 casinos in that area, Bosier City having the most. And, hey, the book sold, so even I made a little $$$ off the place. ;)
Tunica, MS, is well-known for its casinos. I stayed a night at the Hollywood Casino a few years ago. I don’t gamble (don’t care if other do), but it was a neat place to visit. I don’t recall any “shows” or other entertainment around there, except for the casinos. That seemed to be the big draw, and I’ve heard it’s really grown.
The casino should be where the people are you want to use it- visitors. So logically it should be in Old Town or downtown. Don’t stick it out in the country.
“Don’t worry about linking the new casino with other entertainment venues. Once the casino arrives all the other entertainment options will die out and the casino will be the only thing left standing. For every job added two will be taken away.”
That is untrue. Casinos ENHANCE other entertainment. They do not detract from it. Las Vegas is a very popular destination for millions of people. So why, in these days of casinos all over the country, internet gambling and state lotteries, do millions still flock to Vegas when they can gamble much closer to home or even at home? They go there for the ENTERTAINMENT. Did you know that you can spend a whole week in Vegas and not gamble a nickle and still have a great time?
Once the new arena is built, Century II is probably getting towards the end of its economic life at about 40 or so years. My thinking would be to demolish Century II and the main library and put the casino(s) and a new symphony hall on that site. That is what I would do.
Kev -
You might want to do a little research. You can’t compare Las Vegas to Wichita. Las Vegas has been an entertainment destination for decades. No one is going to travel to Wichita to gamble – Not from Oklahoma, Missouri, Nebraska, or Western Kansas when they either have, or will have their own casinos.
The only people spending money at our local casino will be people who live right here, or within 50 miles. This means they won’t be spending their money on other things, it will all be channeled to one place instead of spread out across the community.
Bye, bye to the other samller venues that depend on descretionary income.
This also means bad news for you people who depend on customers buying new cars every four years, or planting trees in their backyard, or adding new decks to their house.
Go see the casino, they will have that income. Who knows, maybe they’ll give it to you anyway.
Enjoy your slots. That will be all you have to entertain yourself with.
Did you know that you can spend a whole week in Vegas and not gamble a nickle and still have a great time?
Posted by: Kev | June 23, 2007 at 07:20 AM
Then go to Las Vegas, because one Casino in Wichita is not going to bring in Vegas style acts.
Wichita Casinos will bring acts that are 5th or 6th down the ladder that can’t get booked in Vegas.
Sam! The people who gamble at Casinos are already doing it. What makes you think the disposable income businesses will go out of business? If they haven’t done so already.
All this Casino will do is pull in the people who are already going to Oklahoma and NE Kansas.
Look! I just passed by Newkirk on Wednesday. The Native Lights Casino who advertises heavy in Wichita. Guess what? Just saw a sign for another Casino to be built down the road from Native Lights. Basically a stone throw from Ark City.
It’s already here, people are already gambling.
Absolutely correct Joe! Sedgwick County residents are already going to casinos – in Oklahoma. So, the fact that they will now do it here really doesn’t change anything.
I see Randy Brown is speaking for the pro-casino group. I think that will help a lot; he is looked upon favorably by many people.
Wichita can bring in top flight entertainment to enhance its casinos. I mean if a little tiny town with no airport (Branson MO) can do it, surely a city like Wichita can. I would recommened country, western and blues acts That would be booked into Wichita entertanment venues on a week long basis along with a new theme- maybe “Wichita- the REAL gateway to the west”
Okay, I’ll say this last thing and get off my soap box.
Yes, a casino in Sedgwick Co. Will keep those who are currently going elsewhere. However, for the next two years it will attract large numbers of people who are looking for something new and different to do. Especially Christmas groups that might otherwise book at a variety of other venues.
After a couple of years the newness will wear off and people’s attraction the gambling bug will deminish.
If you talk to people who live in Vegas, or in areas where there is a casino, they don’t gamble. They see that it is a losing proposition and they leave if to the people who have not learned that lesson.
What if your boss told you. “I like your work, but there’s a new guy I want to try out for a couple of years. I don’t have the money to pay you both, so I’m going to either split your salary with him, or more likly than not, give it all to him for a couple of years. After that, I’ll be done with him and I’ll want you back and we can pick up where we left off.”
Could you stay at that job and be there for him when he decided to come back, or would you find another source of income?
Also, the casino will not attract conventions. The people that plan them don’t want to go to a community where gambling is available, because the participants tend to skip out on the meetings and senminars and that’s where they make their money.
I realize that the bill is probably going to pass. Just do me a favor. Keep an eye on the number of businesses that depend on descretionary income go under in the 5 years after the casino opens and how many jobs that effects.
I’ve done the research in other markets where casinos have gone in. Why do we think that we are going to be any different than any other market.
Really Kev? Branson Missouri?
Comparing one Casino to Branson?
Come on now, you can do better than that.
By the way, I know the history of Branson, I have relatives there and they have lived there since the 1950s.
how can you say that Nobody will come to wichita to gamble??? If you think that low of wichita maybe you need to live somewhere else. If wichita adds a casino to its downtown…hmmm..let me see…..you could go gambling, walk the river and look at the newly updated downtown, past by the new arena,go to old town, check out the museums on the river, catch a movie at the unique warren downtown, go to the waterwalk,etc. think about it …wichita would be ONE OF A KIND!! ofcourse people would travel here to gamble. It seems like everyone can see it except these small minded thinkers that live there.