The appearance by Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., on CBS’ “Face the Nation” made news mostly for the far-fetched suggestion that he and New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg might form an independent presidential ticket next year (“It’s a great country to think about — a New York boy and a Nebraska boy to be teamed up leading this nation,” Hagel said). But another quote resonated in light of the standoff on Iraq between President Bush and the Congress: “War should never be framed up as a partisan issue. It should be never, ever held captive to a political wedge issue. If Bill Clinton was president, if Bill Clinton got us into Iraq like George Bush did, would that mean all the Democrats would be for the war and all the Republicans against it? We must evaluate our involvement anywhere in the world — foreign policy, wars — based on what’s right for the country, not on what’s right for a particular president or a party.”
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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51 Comments
The old saying goes, “From your mouth to God’s ear!”.
That is what I have been saying all a long, when American troops are sent into harms way.When Americans are dying in defense of this country, it should never be a partisan politics issue.To modify Franklin’s quote : When the political party is put above the good of the country, you deserve neither country nor a party.
. . . or, when the party in power is using the lives of it’s fighting force to carry on a war that should never have happened, it has breached the very foundation this country was founded on.
Okay Rhonda = ““War should never be framed up as a partisan issue. It should be never, ever held captive to a political wedge issue.”
Then why are the Democrats making it a political wedge issue?
If the Democrats want to insure that the U.S. will never again be trusted in the Middle East, then they should continue with their partisan politics.
If the Democrats want to put their political party above the good of the country and continue on with their talking points of divisiveness and generally insult waffling – peddling ways, then they should continue down that path.
If the Democrats want to be depicted in the world as weak-kneed do-nothings and demonstrate once again like in Somalia under the Clinton administration – when the tough gets going the Democrats start running like the cheese-eating surrender monkeys they are, then by all means do so.
If the Democrats want to prove the prediction of their philosophy that if we kill Americans, the U.S. will simply run away like the cowards they are, then by all means do so.
I hang my head in shame at the cowardly role of appeasement the Democrats take just so they can fill their campaign coffers.
I find disgust with the petty partisan politics that the Democrats have once again brought to the fore.
I find anger with the Democratic party that invoke the name of God and yet at the same time use despicable tactics to tear down the very fabric of Religion on which our founding fathers shed their blood and treasure in order that we might have such a country.
Not since the days of the Salem Witch Trials have self-indulging pundits of self-righteousness seeks support by appealing to popular passions of the day and prejudices of the lazy to promote interests not of national sovereignty but one of oppressive spew and venomous deed.
We, the Republicans shall remember the extreme indulgence in sensual feel-good pleasures over common sense which dissipates the moral fiber of our country.
As the Democrats wrench the faith and the Bible of our forefathers from the hands of the American people, we shall remember their desire to become a secular society while supping on the corpses of fallen soldiers to promote their selfish agendas.
The failure of the Democrats to recognize that the Alqaeda agenda is very much like the Communist party of the Cold War-that is to dominate the world and infiltrate the morally weak Democratic base of the American society by getting them to vilify the very principles on which the U.S. was founded.
The Democrats have abandoned their own freedom by giving away unity in favor of political partisanship.
The Democrats have shown our enemies that by shifting the focus of fault where there is none, that the Al Qaeda and militant Muslim philosophy are indeed of greater will than the will of ’some’ American people.
The conspiracy driven Democratic party will tear the heart out of the American society leaving it in a morass of rotted values.
If the Democratic party succeed in their partisan agendas, the American people create among future generation that if it is too tough, one can just quit.
The Democrats are incestuously breeding as society of quitters with their ideology of appeasement.
The Democratic party have become the party of protesters that are incapable of providing solutions.
The Democratic party has become a party of Polls – looking forward to their next feel-good self-eroticisms by stroking out the organs of their enemies with their submissive mouths and deeds.
The Democratic party has become spineless jellyfish floating in a chaotic sea of morally deficient mouth-breathers.
The Democratic party now view the American flag and the principles it stands for as one of meaningless fashion.
No longer will the Democratic party allow pride in Country, Flag or morality. They loathe the American of our grandparents and parents and spit on their graves.
Witness the death of America, courtesy of the Democratic party.—–
My, my, my, I have never in my life witnessed such an extremely pathetic hate-filled rant.
Take a tranquilizer, man. You desperately need one.
The truth stings you too much eh Steven Davis? :)
The truth is the republicans lied us into a hopeless war they still supportl.
Door King, you mean liars like these people?
http://republikan.typepad.com/republikansan/2007/04/democratic_part.html
“The failure of the Democrats to recognize that the Alqaeda agenda is very much like the Communist party of the Cold War-that is to dominate the world and infiltrate the morally weak Democratic base of the American society . . .”
After the old Soviet Union collapsed, the reich-wing desperately needed a villain to hate.
Without some horrible monster under the bed, it was difficult to whip up irrational fear cloaked in a false patriotism.
For awhile, they had to content themselves with Cubans in Grenada, Moamar Khadaffi, and Manuel Noreiga.
But, thank goodness for 9-11! For it gave the chest-pounding xenophobes a reason to live again.
Finally, an enemy like the old Soviet Union big enough to really be scary.
All the old shibboleths could be dusted off and re-used: “fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them here,” “fighting against Communism/terrorism and fighting for freedom,” “if you don’t like the Conservative policy of confrontation, be glad you’re not having to recite Lenin/pray to Mecca,” “the Commies/terrorists want nothing more than to force their ideology down our throats,” “freedom isn’t free,” “we’re making steady progress in the Vietnam/Iraq War,” “we should be able to turn things around in Vietnam/Iraq in just a few months,” “the government of Vietnam/Iraq is taking on more and more responsibility,” “as the people of Vietnam/Iraq stand up, we’ll stand down.”
Sorry my prescription was inadequate. Anti-psychotics are needed. Failing that, a pre-frontal lobotomy might necessary – oh wait, that would be redundant.
Wow, more bad Hemingway from JM.
…and which wingnut website did THAT come from?
OMG, the very definition of “over the top”…
“They loathe the American of our grandparents and parents and spit on their graves.”
Pul-eeze man! Get some self respect!
“The Democrats have abandoned their own freedom by giving away unity in favor of political partisanship.”
Heheheeheheh! Hee hee hee!
Republican, project much?
heheheheheheheheheheheeheheh!
I call Godwin’s Law on Republican.
How rich is this crap coming from the Republicans that the Democrats are partisan. Republicans had total control of the Congress for 6 years. They ran over everybody else while they themselves were profiting quite nicely from the K-Street Gang, Jack Abramhoff, the many sex scandals – with mistresses and young male interns.
If the Republicans had done their jobs in the last 6 years and did the country’s business instead of their own personal profiteering, maybe the Republicans would still be in power today?
We need more politicians like Hagel who are not afraid to tell Bush back when he is taking the country in the wrong direction. How sad that Republicans loyal to Bush are still willing to make party more important than what is right for the country. And they dare to call themselves patriots.
“…you mean liars like these people?”
Khan!!!!!
Brilliant! Please note the responses. Nothing but name calling. That’s all they got.Howz come you don’t hear– Pelosi and Reid lied, people died.
As predicted, not one solution from the Democrats. Just more finger pointing…typical typical.
Was there something in Rhonda’s post or this thread that called for a solution? I dont think so.
And the bushies solution?
Stay the course.
how’s that working for ya?
“Howz come you don’t hear– Pelosi and Reid lied, people died.”
Uh, because they didnt?
And joe and jm, maybe no replies because we dont support wingnuts like JM and bjb who pimp their own blogs here. No one is biting, so no reply.
Townhall, freeperville and jm’s own blog? yeah. really credible sources.
Is that where you get all that bad Hemingway?
“Uh, because they didnt?”
How can you say that? Didn’t you watch the video clip?
That because Fleettwood my friend, Democrats are the ultimate revisionists of history. They even forget what they say or “mean” from one day to the next.
Republipuke,You sit there and trash the democrats, but uphold a war that is killing America’s finest and has nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism? Who is walking on the graves of our forefathers? It sure as hell ain’t the democrats.
You are a disgrace to the country our forefathers fought and died for.
But continue feeling good about yourself; pat yourself on the back for backing bush and his so-called advisors. You are wrong, and the nation agrees you are wrong. Less than 28% agree with you, and that is hardly a mandate for continuing this bastard war. Your words do nothing but show your ignorance.
“Less than 28% agree with you,…”
If that really was the case, why aren’t the dems cutting the funding? One would think that would make them heros to 72%.Pelosi lied, people died.
Wasn’t there some poll showing Congress approval rating around 35 percent?
Now, I hate polls like this, but since it seems to be the ONLY standard of proof you democrats use these days…
This war was supported and voted on by both Democrats and Republicans.
Only now, when it is not so popular, do the Democrats turn…
We are currently in a new strategy for this war and yet the left is still using the only phrase they have: stay the course.
While our brave men and women are fighting this war we have the Democratic Senate Leader saying the war is lost.
Yet we have JM Walker lecturing us about the Republicans?
“Pelosi lied, people died.”
Bush lied, a country died.
The democrats are trying to correct a wrong and stop the war, but even they realize that pulling out now could lead to problems in Iraq, as if our invasion hasn’t caused enough problems for its citizens as it is.
But keep supporting the deaths of our finest, fleet, and keep breaking the traditions that have made this country great. To be called a traitor, by people such as yourself, leaves me with a warm fuzzy feeling inside knowing the people calling me that are themselves indeed the real traitors to the constitution of this country.
“The democrats are trying to correct a wrong and stop the war,…”
Trying ain’t doing. Cut the funding. I dare you. Hell, you people can’t even get a minimum wage bill passed. Remember 6 bills passed in ‘06? Neither do I.
More empty pallet ad hominem comments by the Radical Right party of unneccessary war.
fleettwood – The HOUSE Democrats never promised they would get those bills past the GOP, only that they would clear the Democratic-controlled House. They did.
JM Waler,
We are not supporting our troops death.
we are supporting their vicotry. Unlike your Senate Leader.
Why are you declaring defeat while our men and women are still fighting?
Your party does little more than encourage the enemy to continue fighting and killing our men and women with their antics.
“To be called a traitor, by people such as yourself, leaves me with a warm fuzzy feeling inside…” Posted by: J M Walker | May 15, 2007 at 08:49 AM
Must be the “traitor” sweater you decided to wear when you joined the Democratic party.
And don’t give me that speel about Nam. No one gives a crap about that anymore. And this will be exactly what will happen to our fine military men and women that served in Iraq. No one will give a crap about it anymore if Democrats get their way.
The military will be forgotten,it’s injured Veterans set aside. Watch and wait…the Democrats are as predictable as stink on dog poo.
The solution is to get out of Iraq and finish the real war in Afghanistan.
Iraq doesn’t want us there, and Iraq isn’t taking it seriously, and we have no business there in the first place.
Repub, you’d have made a fantastic Nazi party member.
Political Mom,
We are fighting in Afghanistan still.
What else would you have us do there?
Why is the 10th Mountain Division in Iraq? Why are they in the *flat* part of Iraq? Why isn’t the 10th in Afghanistan, a country made mostly of mountains?
Send our troops there instead and get it under better control. At least they want us there.
There’s a military man on another board…and he’s been to both places. Iraq first, and Afghanistan second…
And he says the environment is like night and day. He would not come out and say that Iraq sucked balls in comparison, but the way he raved on the cohesiveness (I’m really tired, did I spell that right?) and working relationship with the Afghan people he was fighting with…
Matter of fact, I think I asked him and he refused to compare…
THAT is how it should be…that is what we should be hearing from our soldiers. What he was saying when he came home from there is how it should be when we’re fighting a noble war for a good cause. When the people are wanting the same end results for their own country and willing to fight for it too!
But he still supports the mission in Iraq. I don’t know why.
Tom,
Probably the same reason why the Marine Corps has their amphibious Battalions in Iraq.
Because they can all support the war in Iraq.
Republican’s 6:27am post can be summed up very simply: If you don’t kiss Bush or Cheney between the cheeks, you’re a traitor.
That answer might work for the 28% crowd, but it’s less effective for the rest of us.
Nathan,
Please point out to me on a map Afghanistan’s coastline, or navigable rivers, where a Marine amphib battalion can apply their specialized training and resources.
Thanks.
Tom,
Where are they doing that in Iraq?
Thanks.
Nathan,
You answered with a complete non-sequitur about Marine amphibs to my question about why the 10th Mountain isn’t in Afghanistan. Just as there’d be no logical reason to send amphib units to Afghanistan, there’s little sense to sending a MOUNTAIN division to a flat country, especially when there’s a perfectly good mountainous nation we’re currently at conflict with.
It all goes to the complete and total mismanagement of the global war on terror. The Bush administration has failed to bring in Osama Bin Forgotten, has failed to eradicate the Taliban, has failed to help Pakistan guard their borders, and has failed to bring the Iraq war to the swift conclusion we were promised over four years ago.
Why isn’t our 10th Mountain Division deployed on the Afghan/Paki border? They are one of the most highly trained and specialized divisions in the Army. They’re being underutilized and misused to shore up Bush’s failed policies in Iraq.
Tom,
Last I checked, the taliban was no longer ruling Afghanistan and freely training terrorists…
Last I checked, the American military is still in Afghanistan destroying any/all reminants of the taliban.
Last I checked, we have killed or apprehended many of the top Taliban leaders and recently we just killed the Mullah Dadullah, the Taliban’s most prominent military commander…
Last I checked the NATO commanders have said that the Taliban is very near to complete destruction.
You sit here and paint defeat and failure on what has been many military successes.
I answered the way I did to your question because you posed it in the same maner.
What does it matter if we are using troops with specialization in other places?
We are using airborne units, ampibious units, all sorts of units in Iraq.
Why I even bet we have Cold weather trained units in Iraq too!
I don’t presume to know why the Generals have deployed their forces they way they did. I assume it was just part of a rotation into Iraq to help.
Unlike you, who presumes to know that it must be nothing other than President Bushs inompetence.
As if the President is sitting in the Oval Office drafting up where every unit will be deployed.
You attempt to bash Bush shows your lack of knowledge on who is doing the planning and an insult to the Brave men and women who are actually doing it.
Nathan, point by point:
The Taliban control huge swaths of Afghan territory outside the major cities. Mullah Omar is still free.
The US military may have a presence in Afghanistan, but that still does not explain why 10th Mountain is in Iraq.
Why did it take 6 years to kill Dadullah? Why is Omar still free? Why is Bin Laden still on the loose?
Taliban near complete destruction? We’ve been told that for five years. Just like the Iraq insurgency is in it’s “last throes.”
I agree that there have been many military successes. Tactical and operational victories are too numerous to count. But there are not enough Marines, soldiers, sailors and airmen assigned to either Afghanistan or Iraq, so despite the operation successes, the strategy continues to fail.
This is not a criticism of the military, Nathan. It’s an indictment of your civilian leadership. They have failed in Afghanistan, they have failed in Iraq, they have failed the people of the United States, and they have failed you, the people in uniform whose lives they are responsible for.
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=20701
Time to Get Out of Afghanistan and IraqThe governments of Afghanistan and Iraq have indicated quite clearly that they want the United States to leave their countries. In Afghanistan, NATO cannot defeat the Taliban, and only makes matters worse by the indiscriminate killing of civilians, says Patrick Seale.
Afghanistan will be high on the agenda when NATO secretary general Jaap de Hoop Scheffer visits President George W. Bush at his Texas ranch on May 20-21. The message de Hoop Scheffer has to convey is sombre: NATO is losing the war against the Taliban. A fundamental policy review is urgently needed.
The most important new development is that the Afghans themselves, sickened by war and mounting civilian casualties, want the United States and other foreign troops to leave. As President Hamid Karzai himself admitted, Afghan patience with foreign troops is “wearing thin” five years after the U.S. invasion. “It is difficult for us to continue to tolerate civilian casualties,” he said at a press conference earlier this month.
Tom,
I hardly see it as a failure.
If this is your stance then where is your parties strategy for victory?
All we hear from the Democrats is defeat.
Bin Laden is not actively doing anything.
If he is still alive and ever does surface he will be killed or captured like every other operative who has done the same.
Your weak cries of our not finding him as a failure ring hollow.
He sure isn’t giving interviews anymore… I wonder why that is?
We have killed or captured most of the Talibans leadership and Al Quada and all you can do is scream about the ones who have yet to be killed or captured as defeat.
It is preposterous how much you will try to twist everything into your hatred for Bush.
Nathan,
This is pointless.
If you read my posts to you, you’ll see that I very carefully avoid any personal attack on you, and that I never try to mis-characterize your comments to support my view. Yet your responses are getting increasingly personal:
“Unlike you, who presumes to know that it must be nothing other than President Bushs inompetence.”
“You attempt to bash Bush shows your lack of knowledge on who is doing the planning and an insult to the Brave men and women who are actually doing it.”
“It is preposterous how much you will try to twist everything into your hatred for Bush.”
“Your weak cries …”
“all you can do is scream…”
It would be very, very nice if you could show me the same respect I show you in these threads. I know several young men in the Marines, and none of them ever speak to me the way you do.
Tom – I addressed your post on yesterday’s thread.
Tom,
Fair enough.
I would hardly call my comments personal attacks.
Everything I have said about you is in direct response to your comments not you.
Your posts do indicate that you presume to know that it is Bush who has the 10th mountain division in Iraq because of his incompetence.
Your posts do show that you are more interested in blaming Bush for the 10th mountain division being in Iraq rather than seeing that it is the generals who figure out who is going where.
I do think it is preposterous how you dredge up every little thing to blame bush with.
I said all you can do is scream about the ones who have not been caught or killed when I show you a list of all those who have been.
I don’t like personal attacks. I try to focus my comments on what is said.
I will try to be more respectful, but I would say my posts are a far reach from calling you names and insulting you…
It does bother me that you do expect to be treated with respect when you don’t offer that to the President though.
Usually I get a little more offensive with people when they speak of Bush the way many here do.
Republican’s first post is, in a nutshell, why the right will be out of power for years to come. They simply don’t live in reality, and anyone that challenges their bizarre and utterly false worldview is labeled a ‘traitor,’ or ‘un-American,’ or ‘terrorist-sympathizer,’ or ‘anti-troops.’
He says that ‘we will remember the Democrats’ trying to end the war. Well, lemme tell ya, the entire nation will remember who it was that wanted this war badly, and now that all but the fascist element of our society realizes it was a mistake, who continues to support our troops dying. Hint: its Bush and the 28 percenters so feebly represented on this board. (And yes, some Democratic support (a majority of Dems in the House voted against the war) made the war possible, but when all of the rationales for the war have been proven utterly false, reality and logic dictate a change of policy. Unfortunately for the fascists like Republican and fleettwood, any acknowledgment that doesn’t fit what they ‘know’ is ‘treason.’ Pretty pathetic.)
The bottom line is that the greatest threat this nation faces is from blind fanatics like Republican, who support disastrous government policies simply because their ‘team’ is behind them. Wilfully ignorant scum like Republican are not worthy of the sacrifices of our troops.
“It does bother me that you do expect to be treated with respect when you don’t offer that to the President though.”
What has he done to earn anyone’s respect? Why should I respect a man who lies every time he opens his mouth?
“Usually I get a little more offensive with people when they speak of Bush the way many here do.”
What’s odd is that people being ‘disrespectful to Bush’ (read: living in reality) offends you, but his constant prevarication does not. (I’m betting its because he has that little (R) next to his name, thus any criticism of him is ‘offensive’ to you;))
Nathan,
Every time you do this:
“you presume to know…”"you are more interested in…”"you dredge up…”"all you can do is scream…”"you don’t offer that…”
What you’re doing is mis-characterizing my views, with which you are clearly unfamiliar, to make your point. You have been consistently putting words in my mouth/keyboard that I have never uttered or typed – I called you on it last night as well, remember?
I try never to do this to you, or to anyone on this blog. I find that kind of “debate” to be disrespectful at the least, and dishonest at its worst.
I’m perfectly willing to discuss public policy issues with you or anyone else on this blog, but I’m not going to continue a conversation in which one participant misquotes and mis-characterizes my comments.
They simply don’t live in reality, and anyone that challenges their bizarre and utterly false worldview is labeled a ‘traitor,’ or ‘un-American,’ or ‘terrorist-sympathizer,’ or ‘anti-troops.’Posted by: ddub | May 15, 2007 at 11:09 AM
I agree with all of this, but there’s a simpler explanation.
The GOP under Bush has shown Americans in the clearest of fashions that the GOP has no idea:1) When to declare war, and2) How to competently wage war.
Thinking Americans will desert the GOP because of these actions, not because of anybody’s guesses about their “reality.”
They’re incompetent. It’s just that simple.
When bush stated, “If this were a dictatorship, it’d be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I’m the dictator.”, I knew he was not joking.
But of course his followers also believe that, just as long as he is THEIR dictator.