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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted May 23, 2007 at 1:04 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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111 Comments
To a liquor store owner who posts the “no guns” sign:I’m a licensed CCH holder, I paid a lot of money and sat through a long class to get it. I carry an expensive, reliable gun. I scored perfectly on the range.I will respect your right to post the sign, and I’ll either leave my gun in the car, or will choose to go to another store.Your store, like all liquor stores, will sometime be robbed. The bad person will be attracted to your sign, knowing there are no legal guns inside. He/she will pick your store first. When it “goes down,” I will either not be there, or will be unarmed. In either case, I won’t be able to help you. Your sign keeps my gun out, and invites the bad guys. Just with that sign in the window, you’ve decreased the number of “good guys” who pay for their purchase, and invited the “bad guys” who perceive you as sitting ducks. Is that what you want?
Liquor stores often get robbed so if a customer walks in with a handgun I can’t imagine why an employee would feel apprehensive.
Doug, you’re missing the point. CCH holders are NOT going to violate the law, and risk losing their permit by taking a gun into an area posted as “no guns.” The employee didn’t post the sign, the store owner did. Likely, that person works days, and leaves the place to the employees at night. The employer has just put his/her employee at greater risk because of this sign, and left him/her defenseless, a more likely target, and less likely to be helped by other (legal) customers. If I were a liquor store employee, I’d ask the boss why we have that sign on the window.
I have a couple of questions for you Zelda. What made you so afraid of being in public that you had to apply for a cc permit and where are you going to conceal that gun this summer?
BTW, just because the “NO Gun” sign is on the window of the liquor store doesn’t mean that the clerk doesn’t have a gun behind the counter.
kscitydude, I am not normally afraid to be in public, but given the rise in public shootings, and my right to have a gun, I’ve decided to exercise that right. It’s not because of the liquor store I stop at to get a six pack on the way home, but the environment where I work at night. Then later, coming home, I face a decision to a. break the law (I won’t do that), b. go to another store, or c. disarm. The store owner is allowed to have a gun in his/her business, but that does not extend to the employees. They too, are subject to the very rule imposed by the store owner when the sign was posted. Otherwise, you’re opening a situation where the employees are armed illegally, and thus subject to both state and civil response. There is no legal way for a store owner to leave a gun under the counter for the use of whoever works there. If a store owner posts a no-guns sign, then he/she means the employees, too. Or violates the very law they insist others follow.
My point is that these signs are silly, not thought-out, and open a real can of worms for the business that posts them. They are simply a knee-jerk reaction to the new Kansas CCH rules. Everyone is better served by not posting the signs, and allowing the law to work as designed. Punish the bad people, and let the good people operate within the law without needless restrictions.
As far as methods of concealment, especially during warm weather, I’ll just say that you won’t see it. (Hint – inside a carried purse is considered concealed)
“My point is that these signs are silly”
I have to agree with you there Zelda. Be safe.
Zelda–or do I mean “stay safe”.
I agree Zelda. And I’ve made it a point NOT to patronize any stores who post the ‘no gun’ sign.
In fact, there are large numbers of us who no longer enter these places.
Far from being a ’safer’ store, they have become Kill Zones.
I encourage you to speak with the owner. A store in Northern Kansas took its sign down after it lost business.
Dig your heels in and just go to a different store until that specific owner sees the error of his/her ways.
Oh – and the ‘fanny pack’ is nice in the summer, too.
That’s all we need: red neck neo-cons with guns. I feel safer already.
I would not patronize a store that had such a sign. If you don’t want my gun (and I don’t carry), you don’t need my business either.
Question, when you got you cc permit were you told that it was so self-protection only?
Let me correct my mistakes in my last post.
Question, when you got your cc permit were you told that it was for self-protection only?
Does that mean you won’t go to the malls, banks, theaters, schools, state, , county, city buildings too?
Sounds like a bunch of gun toting vigilantes.
Good point about malls and theaters…but state/county/city buildings have armed security and metal detectors.
Wow! 16 shooting so far this year in Wichita…gee, I thought the CC law was supposed to REDUCE violence..what happened?Those of you who think that our city is a more dangerous place because of the no gun signs have your swollen heads up your butts. You’re just not that effective or important to anyone or anything..get over yourselves.
Good point, Ken…I hope they follow through on their threats…I’d like to see them try to get their driver’s license, vote, or go to a hospital if they choose not to patronize establishments with no gun signs!
Bush may “hardly think about Osamma anymore”, but apparently Osamma still thinks about the U.S.Guess after the next attack, he may get Bush’s attention for a short while.
I’m more concerned about being in the cross fire of people not accustomed to being in a shooting situation, than from a robber.
Not all — Post Offices, county tag / licensing offices don’t normally have armed guards / metal detectors. Are the local offices of our Congressional reps covered? What about churches?
What if a friend of yours has a sign on his house that says he doesn’t want you on his property carrying a gun? Even if he is licensed to CC he can prohibit you on his property ?
Why concealed carry? Wouldn’t it be more a deterrent to criminals if everyone openly carried a gun ?
There you go, we should all just carry big shotguns across our backs, that way the criminals will REALLY be scared!!!Maybe we can turn Wichta back into the cowtown it once was!
I guess the good news in all this is that the gun totin’ wingnuts wont be spending much time in the kansas legislature next year. ‘Cause they’d have to go without their six shooters.
So if they are boycotting no carry zones, heheheh, this might be the time to push through some legislation to bring Kansas into the current world.
Of course, it’s going to be hard convincing the state to first leave the 1880s.
Mary
Wasn’t advocating for that. Some (not all) of the CCW people scare me — in those cases I want to know where they are —
Oh, to live in Zelda’s and GSheridan’s fantasy world where they’re making a regular visit to an out-of-the neighborhood liquor store (one without a “No Guns” sign) when a tweaking crack addict comes in to rob the place.
“Wait just a minute, Mister Robber, while I set down my two-liter bottle of Old Grandad and 30-can box of Keystone so I can reach into my fanny pack and retrieve my Glock and go all Clint Eastwood on you and save the day!”
In the vast majority of armed robberies no shots are fired; they’re there to rob the place, not kill people. The real threat to clerks and customers isn’t the presence of the criminal’s gun, it’s the presence of a *second* gun. If the clerk pulls out a weapon, the crook is highly more likely to start shooting. That’s why clerks are trained to comply with robbers, give them the money, and let the crook get the hell out of there.
But, no. In Zelda’s and GSheridan’s “Dirty Harry” fantasy world, hot lead will soon start flying endangering everyone in the liquor store. In fact, chances are Zelda will be on the other side of the perp from GSheridan and they’ll shoot each other, proving Darwin’s Law. And if the clerk happens to have a firearm behind the counter, s/he’s likely to start shooting at anyone pointing a gun in his/her general direction.
Perhaps a cop or security guard drops in. Count on them to shoot at anyone in the store (perhaps not the clerk) who’s holding a smoking gun. If Zelda and GSheridan are lucky, they can show the cops their concealed carry permits in the Emergency Room.
Last summer I was pulled over because a tail light had burned out. The trooper asked me, “Do you have any drugs or weapons in the car? Guns? Knives?”
As a matter of fact, there’s a Swiss Army knife in my console. I started to open it, said something like, “Sort of, there’s this Swiss–” and all of a sudden I was looking down the barrel of a police special with a particularly nervous trigger finger at the ready. Cops are funny that way. The presence of a second gun gets them antsy.
That’s the real world, not Zelda’s and GSheridan’s fantasy “Dirty Harry” world.
Now that the Wright Amendment has been changed somewhat, the city needs to entice Southwest Airlines to fly to Wichita. Please look at the Wright Amendment and inform someone who can make enough noise to get Southwest to Wichita.
Funny there is no thread on the vichy dem surrender yesterday. The vichy dems in congress rolled over on their backs and asked the preznit to PLEASE scratch their bellies.
Like the subservient dogs they are. Meet the new boss same as the old boss. They all serve the same corporate masters.
former resident, IIRC, back when the City was trying to entice Southwest with the subsidy that eventually resulted in AirTran providing service to Wichita, Southwest politely but firmly indicated it had no interest at that time nor within the foreseeable future of serving Wichita. Its decision was couched in appropriate corporate speak, which I translated into not enough of a market here to make it worth their time. I’ve not seen anything subsequently which would indicate to me that Southwest would be inclined to change its mind.
Today is the day for bush’s monica to testify before congress!
I wonder if she will “sob uncontrollably for 30 to 45 minutes” or if she will just display the symptoms of Gonzo’s Disease. The type of turrets that just causes its “victims” to say “I dont recall” to every question.
Somehow, I thought immunity was supposed to take care of that disease. I bet the vaccine fails.
She’ll either spill her guts or lose her memory. I give either one even odds.
Or maybe she’ll get lucky, and the vichy dems will give her a pass. Just like they did bush’s war of choice yesterday.
Gives new meaning to the term “surrender monkey”.
I’d love to see Southwest come to Wichita. I just booked a Southwest flight to Dallas from KC for just over $150. I’ll have to drive to KC, but a flight from Wichita to Dallas would have cost me over $400. In spite of the high gas prices, I doubt it will cost me $250-$300 for that Wichita to KC drive.
The cost of flying out of Wichita still sucks, in spite of AirTran, whose prices are usually higher than American and other airlines. Until something can be done, Wichita will NEVER have reasonable air travel in and out of the city and surrounding areas.
Long Time:
Your scenario is YOUR fantasy, not any CC holders that I know of. And law enforcement is very supportive of CC (aside from the political blue suits at the top – go talk to the rank and file cops). That weapon exists for only ONE reason: protection of self or others. We are not cops, we are not there to intervene in every crime. We simply take primary responsibility for our own safety.
BTW – when the officer asks “are there any guns, knives, etc.” the appropriate answer is to refuse to answer. And when the officer asks if he may search your vehicle, the correct answer is, politely, “No, sir, I will not give consent for a search.”And your story about looking down the barrel of a weapon is, I suspect, mostly balony. I’m around too many cops daily to buy that one.
To CC holder’s: I’d suggest, if pulled over and you’re carrying, passing your CC card with your DL and informing the officer that you are carrying, then asking politely how the officer wishes to proceed. In most cases, the officer will not even worry about your weapon at that point; he knows you’re not a threat.
I, too, generally refuse to shop is stores that post. I’ve seen relatively few signs, however, and there’s almost always a non-posted alternative. I’ll politely tell the owner why, and explain to him that his policy does not make his store more safe, and may make it less safe – rationally and politely. I don’t buy the idea that posting makes a store more likely to be robbed. It does, however, increase the likelihood of weapons being stolen, and ultimately used in crime.
Hey longtime,There you go again, spouting common sense, something that GS and, who is this Zelda? Don’t rember her/him? lack.
A bumper sticker I wrote the other day:
Thinkin’s hard work, that’s why most people don’t do it
RD, it all boils down to market, IMHO. Wichita, for all its pretensions, is a relatively small market for an airline to serve. I would not be surprised to see, in the next few years, a decrease in service from Wichita for that reason.
“ksfarmgrrl” –
For the most part, I agree.
But I’m willing to accept the Democrats’ capitulation is a matter of picking your battles carefully. And I hope they’ll return to fight another day.
The facts of the matter are the Executive Branch has the power to portray a withdrawal timetable as a “date for surrender.”
It’s like a local government (say, the city commission) that threatens reducing Fire Department protection 6 hours a day unless a bond issue is passed. Of course the local government could cut expenses in many other ways, but they specify you’ll be protected only if your house catches on fire between 8 in the morning and 12 midnight.
There’s so much arrogance and abuse of power driving the Shrub Administration; a cynical approach to governing that would be all-too-willing to defund American troops if they had an opportunity to blame the Democrats.
I suspect (or maybe I just hope) that the Democrats are separating the issue of military funding from withdrawal timetables.
A separate bill or joint resolutiong that looks further into the future and says “Next time, the only budget will be for financing withdrawal” might achieve a veto-proof majority in Congress. Even Republics are beginning to get the drift.
No on in his or her right mind thinks September is going to bring teddy-bears and rainbows to the crisis Shrub created in Iraq.
There might, just *might*, be a case to be made along the lines of Colin Powell’s “Pottery Barn Rule.” Dubya most certainly broke it and maybe America’s gotta own it.
If Shrub were smart he’d take the money and charter every American 747 and load ‘em all up with every American in Iraq and fly ‘em out tomorrow. Yeah, there might be a continuation of the Iraqi civil war, but Americans wouldn’t be in the crossfire.
Vaughn and RD don’t you think our new destination Casino and brand spanking new arena will make us more enticing.
RD one thing we have found is that the drive to Okla. City takes less time and the airport is more accessible. We just booked to Seattle from Ok City and saved over $400 for the two of us.
The last time I flew it actually cost me more to leave from Wichita than it would cost to drive to Hays and take Frontier.
LTP, sorry, I dont buy this:
“A separate bill or joint resolutiong that looks further into the future and says “Next time, the only budget will be for financing withdrawal” might achieve a veto-proof majority in Congress. Even Republics are beginning to get the drift.”
It doesnt matter anymore what the vichy surrender monkey dems say. Their word doesnt carry any more integrity than shrubs. Remember all the trash talk and swaggering about the “new sheriff in town” how they were going to “shove this down bush’s throat” etc.
Yeah. Right. They just rolled right over. If they think the verbal bones they throw us will placate the base, they are sadly mistaken.
Like the little boy who cried wolf, the next time the dem brag about what they are “going” to do, their word wont mean a damn thing.
Just like bush.
They all serve the same masters. And the sheeple follow…
Before CC stores were robbed at random. Some more than others due to the nature of their business.. But now that the stores are posting signs they have become targets? Sorry I am not buying that. A store will be robbed whether or not they do or don’t allow guns. The likelihood of a criminal using their gun during the robbery goes up though when they feel directly threatened, which will happen when Joe Citizen pulls out his gun to help the clerk. Most stores have insurance to help recover from robberies. I worked retail for 10 years, and not once during that time was any store that I worked at robbed. However if they were, I would have noted the description of the robber, and then sent them on their way with the cash.
Actually, my fear is that NO ONE will show up at the ballot box in 08. I think both dems and repubs and everyone in between think “a pox on both your houses”.
This really is the time for a viable third party, but the corporate masters of america wont pony up the cash for the alternatives.
And why should they? Check mate. They own both the republicans and the democrats. And the preachers own the voters.
I guess this is how democracy dies. Not with a bang but a whimper.
I think Russ Feingold should go to the mike a recite this:
“From this day to the ending of the world,But we in it shall be remembered-We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;For he to-day that sheds his blood with meShall be my brother; be he ne’er so vile,This day shall gentle his condition;And gentlemen in England now-a-bedShall think themselves accurs’d they were not here,And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaksThat fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day.”
There are a HELL of a lot of democrats today who, in the future, will “hold their manhoods cheap” when any speaks of the fight yesterday to end this war of choice.
http://www.chronique.com/Library/Knights/crispen.htm
KFG,
Are you still touting the “war of choice” line?
LOL
Every war is a war of choice. Figuring that almost the entire Democratic party in Congress supported the war, you don’t have much of a leg to stand on in blaming this on Bush.
Of course that won’t stop you from trying.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070523/ap_on_go_co/fired_prosecutors
At least in this picture, bush’s monica looks a little less stepfordish.
But she looks more creepy, in fact, she looks more like ann coulter…
please, for the love of pete…don’t be packin while you’re drinking!
Noticed that too, ksfg.
Did you get any weather at your domicile last night out of all the storms in your area?
The Good news:
I took my CCW training class with Bil Regina who is an Officer in Missouri.
He said that after the first year everyone started to take their no guns signs down.
At first he said they were up everywhere like they are here. But after awhile he thinks people simply see that CCW permit holders are not a threat to them and they eventually take them down.
I had very little rain last night, and yesterday, my farming buddies and I decided it is drought, not rust that is making the beautiful wheat turn brown from the bottom. West of Hays, we really need the rain.
The big excitement for the evening was watching a tornado form while looking out my west picture window.It didnt touch the ground, but the clouds and wind were dark and wild.
I like watching the weather, and dont really fear it. But it is kind of a rush when the Weather Channel has your hometown highlighted as being in the path of tornados.
Hell, they even mentioned Ft. Downer last night, which is right across the road from my farm!! Hee hee heee heeee!
It sure kept verizon busy last night with all the calls I got from Texas…
When was the last time any of you escaped from a burning building or were aided by the fire extinguishers or needed to look at the fire escape plan posted on the wall to figure out how to escape a fire?
I highly doubt many if any of you at all.
Yet we still are proactive and preventative in ensuring that “just in case” a building catches on fire there are an ample amount of safety procedures in place to get out safely.
Yet when it comes to protecting yourself with a gun, many absolutely refuse to acknowledge that there are bad people out there that want to prey on you.
You ridicule and make fun of those who simply carry concealed for the very same reason we post fire alarms, extinguishers, and escape plans in buildings.
We are being proactive and preventative in our attitude towards violent crime.
We acknowledge that there are bad people in this world who want to prey on people and we are not going to be sheep.
This just doesn’t sound like another one of those ‘move on, nothing to see here’ inquiries, as the Repubs would have had us believe. Bet she’s going to give some real interesting testimony; and Gonzo will resign shortly.Ex-Justice official discusses firings By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer54 minutes ago
WASHINGTON – After receiving assurances she would not be prosecuted for her testimony, Monica Goodling took a seat at a House committee witness table to answer questions about her role in the Justice Department ouster of eight U.S. attorneys.
ADVERTISEMENTGoodling, who resigned last month as the department’s White House liaison, looked composed as she prepared to tell the House Judiciary Committee about the firings that have resulted in lawmakers’ demands for Attorney General Alberto Gonzales to resign.
It was to be the first time she has spoken publicly about her role in the scandal. She entered the hearing room with two lawyers and flipped through her notes as a horde of photographers encircled her.
Committee chairman John Conyers (news, bio, voting record), whose panel is part of Congress’ investigation into whether the firings were politically motivated, said Goodling “may well have information that will help us in our inquiry.”
Opening remarks by Conyers, D-Mich., stuck a soft tone about Goodling, who will receive criminal immunity for her testimony. Justice Department documents show Goodling helped former Gonzales chief of staff Kyle Sampson plan the dismissals.
“The fact that we are granting limited immunity to Ms. Goodling for her testimony should not be taken as an indication that the committee believes that she is guilty of a crime,” Conyers said in his prepared remarks.
Democrats are seeking to learn whether the White House inappropriately meddled in the firings. Documents released Tuesday indicate Goodling worked with three White House political and legal staffers in pushing plans to bypass senators’ input about U.S. attorney nominations in their home states.
The documents, which contain transcripts of congressional interviews with former and current Justice employees, describe Goodling breaking down in the office of Associate Deputy Attorney General David Margolis on March 8 as the Democratic-controlled Congress made plans to call Justice Department officials to testify in the growing controversy.
“She proceeded for the next, it seemed like forever but it was probably only about 30 or 45 minutes, to bawl her eyes out and say, ‘All I ever wanted to do was serve this president and this administration and this department,’” Margolis said of Goodling in his closed-door May 1 interview.
“I knew she must think everything was unraveling. And, you know, she was right about that,” Margolis said.
Goodling is also at the center of an internal Justice Department inquiry into whether she considered whether prosecutors were Republicans before hiring them for career jobs, a violation of federal law.
Goodling’s attorney, John Dowd, said she also has copies of documents pertaining to the inquiry that have not been publicly released — but needs approval from the Justice Department before handing them over to Congress. House Judiciary staffers shot back in a letter Tuesday that Goodling “must produce the responsive documents that you have acknowledged she currently possesses.”
After a follow-up conversation with senior Judiciary aides, Dowd held his ground: “We further agreed to disagree.”
“GMC70″ –
See, here’s where I don’t buy the whole *concealed* carry rationale:
There’s this contrived fantasy that criminals think rationally about their actions. We’re supposed to believe that a crook is gonna believe “maybe somone has a concealed weapon so I’ll not rob them”?!
I’ll tell ya what might really disuade a crook from mugging you: carry an *UN*concealed weapon. Strap on a holster and go about your business. Granted, most civilized people will see you packin’ heat on your hip and judge you to be a certifialbe nut, but at least the muggers might not bother you.
(Assuming, of course, criminals are sensible people…which is a stretch of logic.)
On this thread “Zelda” and “GSheridan” pretty much spelled out their fantasies of whipping out their handguns (from their purse or fanny pack) and *FIGHTING CRIME!!!!*
They were asked if they’d ever been mugged or robbed or ever put in a situation when they needed a handgun. They had to admit, “No.”
So they are cowering, paranoid, sniveling fraidy-cats who somehow feel they’re protected against a threat that they’ve never faced; given a Saturday Night Special in their purses and/or fanny packs that they imagine they’ll rise up like “Dirty Harry” and win the day that most likely will never happen.
My experience with the Kansas Highway Patrol trooper is real-world and true. Call it baloney if you must so you can sustain your little concealed-carry fantasy.
Watch a couple of hours of those reality TV camera-on-the-cop’s-dashboard shows and see for yourself what happens when law enforcement officers discover a gun is part of the scenario.
Cops know all too well that a second gun in any situation is dangerous.
This is a really good read by a retired LtCol Dave Grossman.
It talks about how people are either sheep, sheepdogs, or wolves.
Those of you who are sheep make fun of and ridicule us sheepdogs, but we will still protect you.
On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs – Dave Grossman
http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html
A small excerpt for those who don’t click the link:
“Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level.
And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes. If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be “on” 24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself…
“Baa.” “
“‘All I ever wanted to do was serve this president and this administration and this department,’” Margolis said of Goodling in his closed-door May 1 interview.”
I think that just about says it all. She NEVER says she wanted to serve this great nation, serve the american people, serve justice.
Nope. Just serving bushco and her republican party.
Are we surprised? She is a loyal bushie…
I don’t really care if the mere knowledge of carrying concealed deters crime or not.
I think it does in many instances.
However, I do care about being able to protect myself and my familiy.
So when the day comes that someone does try to do harm to myself of my family I am able to protect them and myself instead of simply being killed.
Yep, she’s still protecting bush. Justice be damned.
“Ex-Justice aide won’t turn over docs subpoenaed by HouseGoodling fails to turn over documents subpoenaed by House committee Michael RostonPublished: Tuesday May 22, 2007
Former top Justice Department aide Monica Goodling was chided by the House Judiciary Committee for failing to turn over documents that had been subpoenaed as part of the investigation into the firing of 8 US Attorneys. Goodling is set to testify before the Committee on Wednesday.
“I am concerned, however, about your statement that Ms. Goodling is going to refuse to produce documents in her possession that are responsive to the subpoena,” Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), the committee’s chairman, wrote to Goodling’s attorney John Dowd.
In responding to an argument made by Dowd on why Goodling did not need to turn the documents over, he added, “We are aware of no authority that permits internal Department administrative regulation to allow a former employee of the Department of Justice, or any other person, to avoid the subpoena power of the House of Representatives, as that power is central to the House’s ability to carry out its Constitutional oversight mandate and certainly trumps internal agency regulations.”
more at:http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Goodling_fails_to_turn_ov...
“So when the day comes that someone does try to do harm to myself”
When the day comes? With a bit of common sense and awareness of surroundings, that day will never come.
Your best weapon for self-protection is the one between your ears.
Having been in the liquor business for over 20 years let me tell you that the last…the very LAST…thing I want is a well armed clientele.
heheheh Clark. Which would explain his need to carry BIG guns…
WS Clark,
I do exactly that. I am very aware of my surroundings everywhere I go.
I am always checking exits, entrances, and thinking about what I would do if something were to happen.
I believe the book “On killing” talks about the different levels of readiness and caution in your day to day life.
It is some good stuff.
However, when the door to your home is kicked in while you are sleeping what are you going to do then? Think about how alert you were as you dial 911 and pray that the guy doesn’t come to your bed room and rape your wife in front of you or kill her while you only wished you had a gun?
So when the day comes that someone does try to do harm to myself”
When the day comes? With a bit of common sense and awareness of surroundings, that day will never come.
Your best weapon for self-protection is the one between your ears.
Posted by: WSClark | May 23, 2007 at 10:55 AM
so only stupid people get murdered..
tell that to the murder victims not me..
“so only stupid people get murdered..”
Common sense (available to everyone regardless of intelligence.)
Awareness (also available to everyone.)
Where did I say that only stupid people get murdered?
And some of the most intelligent people I have known have had the least common sense.
WS Clark,
I also drive very defensively. I try to watch the road cautiously and do not drive recklessly.
I watch my mirrors, use my signals, and try to do everything I can to be safe (minus a little speeding).
Guess what? I still wear my seat belt.
Do you wear your seat belt? Why? Are you not using what is between your ears to stay safe on the road?
WS
“When the day comes? With a bit of common sense and awareness of surroundings, that day will never come.”
I’d mostly agree. Modify it to “will LIKELY never come” and I’d agree. But s#^$ happens. And preparation is always wise. We mostly agree on this one, so I’m not calling you out; far from it.
And Long Time, I doubt very much if GS & Zelda have, or expressed, that fantasy; it’s mostly projection of your image of those who carry. If they do believe they are instant cops, it’s a problem, agreed. CC holders are NOT cops, and are NOT there to intervene in every crime. That weapon is drawn ONLY when great bodily harm is imminent. PERIOD. I cannot stress that enough.
I’m still skeptical re: your story about the trooper, but it’s possible, I guess. Perhaps a nervous kid, or a recent incident had him on edge. Whatever.There’s no doubt, however, that law enforcement officers are overwhelming pro-CC.
Give it a year or two. When the sky doesn’t fall, most of the gunbuster signs will come down. And the chicken little alarmists will be proven wrong – again – for the, what, 41st time (give or take a few)?
FREE FREE FREE
For Horse Lovers / owners
Saw this posted at a store in Mulvane – doesn’t appear to be more than a week or so old:
— 2 miniature horses Free to a good home with good care and barn — must take both —
777-4916
Free is good !!
I have no more info than that ….
You are correct, GMC, for the most part the hysteria on both sides is unwarranted. As Bill Shakespeare said, “Much Ado About Nothing.”
For all of the gun debate, we all would be better off focusing on preventing violence.
I’m not taking a particular stance on cch, but I find GMC’s post well stated. I do find it interesting though, that “preparation is always wise” for some people in this particular case, but the maxim doesn’t seem to hold true for things like preparation for potential global warming, let’s say.
Nathan,a couple of very good posts.It’s very easy to be against guns till you get robbed…and then beat half to death after you give some creep your money. There’s a lot of truth in the old saw that goes, “there’s never a cop around when you need one”.
I want to be able to protect myself!
“…when the door to your home is kicked in while you are sleeping what are you going to do then? Think about how alert you were as you dial 911 and pray that the guy doesn’t come to your bed room and rape your wife in front of you or kill her while you only wished you had a gun?
Posted by: Nathan | May 23, 2007 at 11:06 AM
—-
Yeah, Nathan. It’s not like you’re cowering in fear or anything.
I must assume you’re sitting at your computer with your handgun close at hand, loaded and cocked, and haven’t done something wimply like put a trigger lock on it or stored it in a gun safe so your toddlers can’t get it.
Nope. You’re at the ready 24/7 when anybody comes down the hall (because, *ANYBODY* could be coming down the hall, ready to rape you or kill your wife. Better fire off a few warning shots, just to be sure.
I trust, “Nathan,” you’re typing with only one hand because to be safe from home invaders bent on raping you and killing your wife, you’ve got to be prepared.
WHAT’S THAT NOISE ON THE PORCH?!!!! Yeah, it *looks* like the mailman but it could be a home invader dressed like a mailman. And he could be here to rape you and kill your wife! Show ‘im who’s boss, Nathan! Shoot to kill, Nathan!
You sniviling paranoid coward.
Well, I’m not going to be in a liquor store shootout anytime soon, despite LTP-FTL’s assertion, for a couple of reasons. First, I don’t drink and secondly, I don’t have a CC license. I DO carry my 380 in my fanny pack occasionally in the summer around my land – but that’s always been legal.
I don’t have any immediate plans to get my license, but I support CC.
For me – not doing business with stores that ban CC is just good sense. I can’t imagine that there are some here that seem to think it would be better to have a criminal with a concealed weapon, than a citizen that is licensed.
Hmmmm……
However, to each their own. The stats show that after CC is enacted in numerous places – certain crime rates dropped. I believe rape is one of the biggies, but it’s been awhile since I pulled those stats, so don’t quote me.
My question to those who seem to think legal CC is a problem is this – why are you NOT afraid of criminals with guns, but you are afraid of citizens carrying legally?
Does anyone have an answer to that?
If your going to call someone a coward, you shouldn’t do it behind an alias on an internet blog.
It kind of looses any weight it might have had.
Thanks XXX.
LTP — Ratonality is on break… Dont even try… wont work!! LOL
A lot of us are fuming over the surrender monkey democrats today. This is a great post if you take time to read it. It explains exactly how I have felt about the kansas democrats for the last three years, and now it applies to the dem congress critters too.
What a sad day. And even sadder that the true believers fail to see it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×948768
The start of the discussion was about not going into stores that prohibit CC — as the poster said they have that right — and CC folks have the right to not shop there ….
…. but where do you draw the line, won’t take the kids to the zoo? Wild West World, city museums etc ……
CC is not allowed in bars ?
… and if it’s concealed carry — why would you tell any one wether you carry or not —- I’d rather keep you guessing
This is pretty good too.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103×283117
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Ken,
There are some places where I will still go into if they have the no CC signs up.
I would still go to Wile West World.
Of course I am going to go into public buildings when I need to conduct business.
However, when I go to the stores around town, small business, and other places and they have the no CCW sign up?
I will go elsewhere.
I don’t go to bars or clubs so I don’t need to worry about them.
Of course there will be times when I need to disarm myself to go into some building which is why we needed the latest law passed allowing us to keep our weapons in our cars.
“It’s very easy to be against guns till you get robbed…and then beat half to death after you give some creep your money.”
That presumes the perp won’t shoot / beat you as you are getting your gun out ….. more than likely he / she already has his weapon out — do you think he’s gonna wait til you get your gun out and cocked to make it a fair draw —
…. so either carry your gun so it can be seen and used quickly …. or just give him your wallet …
ken,
you’re forgetting about the free body armor you get when they issue the license.
Ken,
Cocked? If someone needs to cock there gun…
Most people I know carry their guns ready to fire.
I will carry my gun with a round in the chamber ready to fire.
Nathan
Because of your Marine background and training and your Dad’s usual (ok most of the time) sensibilities are about the only ones here that I would trust in this blog to use good judgement when carrying —
… but like I said —- why would you want to advertise here or anywhere that you CC — defeats the purpose
Nathan
Don’t nit pick — point is when some one approaches you and holds a gun at you — is it really a good idea to go for your gun — you’re already 5 seconds behind the power curve …
I don’t think you should advertise that you are carrying.
Anyone else watching the Monica Goodling show. She looks like a high school student council president who had considerable authority over the careers of seasoned prosecutors. She makes Michael Brown look like someone who knew what he was doing. The hostile disrerspect this administration has had for the workings [sic - in their case] of the government is absolutely stunning.
“disrespect” instead of “disrerspect” – sorry
Ken, you’re right, in that if a criminal already has a gun pointed at you, it would not be a good idea to draw.For those touting the idea of open-carry, we learned in CCH class that only prepares the bad guys, and more often than not, they take out any visibly armed person first, then conduct their intended business.As Nathan has indicated, the only safe method is concealed, and one should not identify themself as such, unless asked by a police officer.
Speaking of Republicrats, why isn’t anyone at The Eagle talking about Sebelius and her Republicrat pals selling out KU Hospital to Missouri?
Dolph Simons up in Lawrence has pretty much called Sebelius a liar and a crook, so where’s the rest of the press?
Open carry?
Not advised. As noted above, it simply makes you a target, and gives away one advantage you do have – surprise.
There’s also something to be said for keeping the goblins guessing as to who’s packing and who’s not. If CC has any deterrent effect (and I favor it whether it does or not), that deterrent effect is magnified and “shared,” if you will, if the bad guys have to guess who’s packing and who’s not.
You’ll also get some very nervous looks in the world in general packing on your hip.
That said, open carry is perfectly legal in Kansas, unless there is a local ordinance against it (as there is in Wichita). So if that’s your preference – good luck, and be safe.
I’ve been robbed at gun point twice. Once while standing in line at a gas station in San Diego. Once when I was leaving a crap game in Charleston.
I wasn’t armed in San Diego and all I remember is that it was a Mexican with a gun. I was armed in Charleston and the robber was around 12 years old and black. He seemed more afraid than I was. I let him go. Didn’t want to pull my gun while he had me covered and didn’t see any need when he was running away.
I quit carrying a gun after the robbery in Charleston. I shook me up that when I was faced with the possibility of actually killing someone. Especially a kid.
I’m getting a CCH just to make it legal for me to carry a gun in my truck, car and motorhome. I might get a little .38 special to carry in a ankle holster but I doubt it.
I seriously doubt that the CCH law is going to have much effect on anything. Most people that are getting their permit already carried when they wanted to.
If anything it might put a little fear in the hearts of the criminals.
Hank
Good point Hank — “I seriously doubt that the CCH law is going to have much effect on anything.”
It might make criminals more paranoid, which could be either a good or bad thing!
No one said it would be easy but looks like this is a good time to give it a try. Southwest will fly where the passengers are and tehre are people who will use Southwest.
Just got off the phone, todd t’s town hall meeting, (actually a conference line). On questions of setting a withdraw date, there was only a slight majority (compared to for, and undecided) against setting the date (he took live key in votes). On question of was man primarily responsible for gw, about the same margin of responses. ( He also used the term surrender date, and Republicans’ 99.7 % of greenhouse gasses come from nature, citing some climate study group((I now know he and Republican listen to the same source!). Oh left out, his comparing polar ice caps on mars with melting polar caps on earth! Could Republican actually be tiahrt posting annonomously?I’m wondering if tiahrt is smart enough to consider he’s in trouble on his positions, when one considers that the people most likely to participate in his phone conference are Republicans in the first place, and those most likely to hang up after a short while are democrats, which I did after a few minutes listening in.Also, he was catching hell about the amnesty bill.
good update Steve — thanks!!
Steve
How did you find out about the meeting / phone conference?
Yup, I was wondering about that too.
We lefties have been trying to get this information for quite awhile. It’s not easy to find this man in a public venue . . .
wowsir, Now I’m a Congressman. :)
LMAO at the conspiracy driven Libs!
Here’s the real reason we lost 3,500 Americans and half a trillion dollars in Iraq:
Washington, May 23 – WASHINGTON, D.C. — Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) will invoke a rarely used House procedure today to discuss the privatization of Iraqi oil on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives.
Kucinich plans to invoke a point of personal privilege under House Rule IX to respond to published remarks regarding efforts he has made to inform the House Democratic Caucus of the details of the Iraqi Hydrocarbon Act.
Kucinich will have one hour of time on the House floor in which he plans to explain why Congress’ insistence on benchmarks in the supplemental, which includes passage of the Iraqi hydrocarbon act, demands that Iraqis privatize their oil.
*****
Cost in American lives? 3,500
Cost in American dollars? half a trillion
Making Iraq safe for Exxon-Mobile? Priceless.
Went to both of is web pages .gov and .com no mention of the meeting — the .gov page says that he sends staff out to meet with constituents and to check the schedule as to when they would be out — the schedule was blank …
It was a joke, ReplagiarCon.
Apparently, if Rush Limbaugh doesn’t say it with a laugh track, the CONs don’t know it’s a joke.
Anyway, you put on so many other fake personas, why not a Congress-critter?
Liberal Left Blogger Gone Wild
Phony Soldier Charged With Making Up Claims of Atrocities in Iraq
Associated PressSunday, May 20, 2007
SEATTLE — “A man who tried to position himself as a leader of the anti-war movement by claiming to have participated in war crimes while serving in Iraq is facing federal charges of falsifying his record.
Jesse Adam Macbeth, 23, formerly of Phoenix, garnered attention on blogs and in some alternative media after he began claiming in 2005 to have been awarded a Purple Heart for his service, which he said included slaughtering innocents in a Fallujah mosque. His story was contradicted by his discharge form, showing that he was kicked out of the Army after six weeks at Fort Benning, Ga., in 2003 because of his “entry level performance and conduct.”
A complaint unsealed Friday in U.S. District Court in Seattle charged him with one count of using or possessing a forged or altered military discharge certificate, and one count of making false statements in seeking benefits from the Veterans Administration.
Macbeth’s public defender, Jay Stansell, declined to comment.
Organizations that opposed the war, including Iraq Veterans Against the War, posted videos or statements containing Macbeth’s claims on their Web sites. In one videotaped interview, a skinny, stuttering Macbeth, dressed in a camouflage jacket, described slaughtering hundreds of people in a mosque: “We would burn their bodies … hang their bodies from the rafters in the mosque,” he said.
Veterans Against the War and other organizations removed the claims after learning they were false.
“He approached us in early 2006, posing as a war veteran. He seemed very emotionally distressed about his experiences,” said Amadee Braxton, a spokeswoman for Iraq Veterans Against the War, based in Philadelphia.
Macbeth claimed in an application for benefits to have served from May 2001 to June 2004, to have been shot in Iraq and to have suffered post-traumatic stress disorder, LaMont E. Stokes, an agent with the VA’s Office of the Inspector General, wrote in the charging papers. He also collected more than $10,400 in benefits to which he was not entitled, Stokes wrote.
Stokes said he interviewed Macbeth in a Tacoma jail, where he has been serving a sentence for fourth-degree assault, and that Macbeth admitted falsifying the documents because he was homeless and wanted to “sucker” anything he could out of the government.”
What are you Capn, the CYA guy for Steve or just another Liberal Left apologist for untruth and the un-American way? :)
If you want to try to get notified of Todd’s town hall meetings — here is the email I sent him — cut and paste as you wish.
I read tonight (May 23rd) on the Wichita Eagle Blog page that you conducted a conference call / town hall meeting this evening How are your constituents notified of these meetings? Why is not posted on your .gov web page as it says town hall meetings would be? Please put me on any notification email list you use for these meetings?
Hang on Repub — Something about your citation of that news article doesnt ring true… I didnt know we ALLOWED 16 year old soldiers in Iraq in 2001?? IF he is 23 yrs. old now, and claimed to be serving in Iraq from 2001-2004, he would have been 16 – 19 yrs old when he was serving… You want us all to believe that nobody did the math here???
OR, is his age listing as currently 23, simply a misprint??
And please, dont jump to some conclusion that I am questioning whether fraud exists… because any time we are involved in war, and foreign deployments, there will be some idiot who tries to get what isnt his, through fraud.
One could ask Matt Clay what happens when cops see a gun in your car.
I’ve no idea why I was contacted, just answered the phone, and an automated message from tiahrt asking if I wanted to participate in a ‘town hall meeting’ via the call came on. So I listened in for a while. I presumed it was random, but I remember hearing the message on my answering machine before, so now I’m not so sure it was random.Looks like the call came from #240-696-7345.
Relax Repub., you’d really have to be a do nothing congressman to be posting on weblog as much as you do!One thing tiahrt said that caught my attention, and made me say hmmmm, was when he was responding to the border bill, he used an analogy I used not long ago on this blog. He said he liked to compare it to treating a wounded person, and we have to stop the bleeding before we can address the other problems.As far as I knew that was an original analogy.
You never know steve, maybe either him, or one of his handlers reads WE Blog… and picked up something you said…
Well, thats it for me… Good nite, and good luck!!!
Hey Ken,
Thanks for the heads up about the horses!
We’re going out of town for the weekend tomorrow, won’t be back until Monday. I called Mr Noel about his horses and we’ll probably go look at them on Monday or Tuesday evening.
If we think we want them he’ll come and look at my stables, pasture, etc. and we may make a deal.
Nice man, getting too old to take care of them another winter and he just wants them to go to a good home.
We’ve got a lot of children in our little neighborhood that would love them to death!
Thanks again for the heads up, I may be adding to my herd!
Hank
How old are the horses? Maybe he’s sending them into a retirement home!
Steve, the analogy of stopping the bleeding, hemorrhaging, etc. has been around for centuries, don’t flatter yourself.
“To endure oneself may be the hardest task in the universe. You cannot hire a wise man or any other intellect to solve it for you. There’s no writ of inquest or calling of witness to provide answers. No servant or disciple can dress the wound. You dress it yourself or continue bleeding for all to see.” – Frank Herbert (1920 – 1986)
Blood, Bloody, Bleeding and etc. have been used as metaphor in many situations.
So, not your original thought or concept Steve, sorry.
LAW OF THE LANDBush grants presidency extraordinary powersDirective for emergencies apparently gives authority without congressional oversight
Posted: May 23, 20071:00 a.m. Eastern© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com
http://www.worldnetdaily.com
article by Jerome Corsi…
You all might want to check this out…
When AM refers to several of us as “sniveling, paranoid, (and) coward,” he/she loses all credibility. The argument about the “second gun threat” is urban legend stuff, and anyone who can’t explain what a Swiss Army knife is without reaching for the console is naive or stupid. I don’t believe for a minute that somebody who pulls a gun in a felony is not a threat to me if I just quietly acquiesce. (though I might, depending on the situation) For whatever reason, AM has chosen to go through life without self-defense, just believing that this is a wonderful world, and everything will be OK. My only problem with this person is that he/she casts aspersions on those of us who have reasonably thought through this, while he/she keeps the rose-colored glasses on. Maybe with his/her pent-up emotions, this person shouldn’t have a gun after all! (Or couldn’t get one if they wanted to??)