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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted May 15, 2007 at 1:03 a.m.
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129 Comments
What’s coming from Iowa to Greensburg?
Why did Gov. Sebelius ask the Gov. of Iowa to suspend Iowa highway load limits to assist Kansas Storm Victims?
http://www.iowademocrats.org/ht/display/ReleaseDetails/i/1030530
Why isn’t ONE example given of what’s coming from Iowa to Greensburg, or why this proclamation in Iowa is needed to help Kansas?
Please help me understand.
Man, are you that desperate to attack Sebelius that you start ranting on things you don’t know anything about? Load limits were suspended so drivers could rush more materials to the area quicker rather than having to make more trips with lighter loads. Load restrictions tend to be for safety reasons especially on gravel/dirt roads and during frost seasons.
Pretty well sums it up:
PROCLAMATION OF DISASTER EMERGENCY….Several Midwest States Have suffered Tornadoes and severe storms Resulting in wide spread destruction to critical infrastructure as well as residential and business properties. These states are requesting, or may be requesting, assistance from other state and federal partners in restoring critical services and providing needed suPplies to the impacted area; and
WHEREAS, The State Of Iowa has been requested to provide waiver of REGULATIONS THAT will allow for the flow of Mutual Aid Assistance through the emergency management system to impacted states, and
WHEREAS, numerous disaster RESOURCES MAY be traversing iowa enroute to other states’ disaster sites; and
Has the same request been made of other states? There are a few states to go through to get to Kansas. Are they also being asked to do the same thing? If not then why not? Or is this another one of Sebelius let’s get my name out there so that I can be somebody in another state?
So I think this is a fair question. If it is such a good thing then all the states should be asked to do the same.
Interesting…”RESOURCES MAY be traversing iowa…”
Operative word here is “MAY”…in other words, there is no factual basis for this proclamation. No evidentiary need..just a thought that something MAY need to come thru one state. One state that has an early presidential preference vote…
The best comment on the opinion line today:
“It’s a good thing we have a major league military, because we sure have a Bush league commander in chief.”
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-0705080663may09,1,6941010.column?ctrack=1&cset=true
This is the column that appears is today’s Eagle about the dust-up over “Barrak the Magic Negro”. Mr. Page gets in his subtle digs on Limbaugh but shows the kind of intelligence and perspective missing with the Media Matters crowd.
Page is “moderate”–in other words, some one that The Eagle can print in response to the right-wing radicals like Cal Thomas (vicious hate-monger), Thomas Sowell (black conservative, hahaha), Kathleen Parker (idiot), Stephen Gurlnick (right-wing nut job), Robert La Plante (Koch family paid shill) etc.
Molly Ivins RIP died recently but she had been dead to The Eagle’s op-ed page for many, many years prior . . .
From the Washington Post -Justice Dept.’s No. 2 to Resign:McNulty Is 4th to Quit Since Disputed Firings
“Another one, bites the dust…”
You really do have to wonder if the scandal-a-day coming out of D.C. is intended to drown out all that good news pouring out of Iraq.
I agree Steven. And it creates “scandal fatigue”. Since it’s a scandal a day, it’s too overwhelming for the average voter to keep up the scorecard.
Maybe we need “most wanted” playing cards for the bushies under investigation? Another deck for those who resigned when they couldnt face the heat?
And another one of all the Americans who have died in bush’s war of choice for oil?
Nawwwwww. Too many cards to carry in THAT deck.
Maybe a deck of cards detailing the liberties so called americans have gladly handed over to stop their nightly bed wetting?
Nope. Again, too many cards to carry in that deck.
You mean like the fired U.S. Attorney Scandal?
How’s did that work out for ya Democrats?
As I said before, “They got nothing.”
More flaccid and impotent mouth-breathing from the Democrats.
How about a deck of playing cards for just the lefty moonbats on this board?
I don’t think there is enough to make the entire 52, counting each one only once, but when we add in their multi-nics and alter-egos we can certainly come up with the total and still have two images left of farmie – one frontal, and one profile for the Joker cards.
Nah – no one would buy them. The only folks who might want them, would be other libbies and they would probably just steal them.
Guess we need another idea.
lol
Are you people so blinded by your political agendas, that you have to attack the KS Governor even on a legislative request to allow for the transportation of goods and equipment to Greensburg???
And did any of you check with those OTHER states that might need to be traversed, to see if just MAYBE they have already lifted their weight restrictions for the emergency??
You Republicans have got to admit, with all this scandal, your party gets tarnished further and further with every one.
Why is it that we can have so many democratic years without this much scandal…but all hell breaks loose everytime you nuts get your hands on the holy grail of power?
And you have the NERVE to complain because Gov. Sebelius was proactive in trying to get supplies across the nation. Get a flipping clue.
Hey PM… You wont ever get those Republicans to “Admit” to anything!!! Nice try though!
Hey farmgrrl – THIS looks like a fun little card game;-)
http://theyesmen.org/tryem/
Political Mom,
There is a world of difference in the constant attacks your party makes against the Republicans and anything the Republicans are actually doing.
The Democrats have it down to a science:
Throw enough mud at someone and sooner than later they can’t clean it all off.
Do newspapers notices that ciculation drops in a lineal relationship with the number of conservative columnists on their op ed page? It ain’t the internet folks. They jumped on a bandwagon that wasn’t there.
“Why is it that we can have so many democratic years without this much scandal”- Pmom
Let’s see. TravelGate. MonicaGate. FBI filesGate. WhitewaterGate. HubbleGate. WacoGate….
Scandal, real or made up is no respector of political parties.
Please. Nathan, this is what the repubs did to Clinton over and over again. Remember? And for what stupid crap anyway? None of Clintons stuff holds a CANDLE to the crap your party has been up to.
Hey, there’s another new scandal brewing in Nevada.. With the Governor… And he is a Republican!! Another one hits the fan…
And P-M… not only while Clinton was President… they have kept it up for the past 7 years… Guess they cant handle it if it isnt HIS fault!! He He He….
Ahh yes… Waco… And does anybody bother to remember that Clinton Inherited Waco??? That siege of the compound was already started when Clinton and Co. took office… And, if I remember right, they werent even given a proper briefing as to what was happening there… They did what HAD to be done… They finished the job Daddy Bush had already started!!
Let it be known that it was not the Republicans who brought up Clinton in this thread…
Everytime we mention him you guys jump off a bridge in panic all in an uproar…
You mean like the Scandal the Democrats refuse to investigate on Feinstein. The fact that Feinstein’s husband’s company got contracts for 3.9 billion dollars from insider information fed to the Senator by the Vice President of said company.
That kind of scandal?
And every one of us Dems have said that she should pay if that’s what has happened.
So we put up, and you can’t shut up.
Ok Republican… let’s see if you can show us a “source” on that Feinstein comment… Or did you get it from Drudge??
Oh, by the way, Were the Dems in control of Congress when that Feinstein matter came to “light”??
Anybody know??
Actually Nathan — Outlander brought Clinton up first:
“Why is it that we can have so many democratic years without this much scandal”- Pmom
Let’s see. TravelGate. MonicaGate. FBI filesGate. WhitewaterGate. HubbleGate. WacoGate….
Scandal, real or made up is no respector of political parties.
Posted by: outlander May 15, 2007 at 09:57 AM
“And does anybody bother to remember that Clinton Inherited Waco??? That siege of the compound was already started when Clinton and Co. took office…”———-
What in God’s name is the matter with you, Chas?
Clinton was inaugurated on Jan 20, 1993, and the siege began on Feb 28 of that year.
He had been in office more than a month.
Do you ever bother to research something? Or do you only open your mouth when you want to change feet?
Sheesh
Speaking of Democrat scandals – did anyone ever discover the truth behind the death of Vince Foster?
You are wrong GS… The FBI people were already in Waco attempting to deal with that lunacy BEFORE Clinton took office… It was on Bush’s Watch when it all started… As I said… Clinton merely finished what Daddy BUSH had already started!!
Oh, good lord, GS, dont be digging up THAT old crap all over again… That Foster business was settled LONG ago!!
He died by suicide…. let the man rest in peace!!!
Wrong Chas, you specifically said the ’siege.’ An investigation and a siege are two very different things.
Clinton had plenty of time to rethink the course of action down there before the troops went in half-cocked. He had well over a month.
Are you saying Clinton was SO ineffectual as to have NO say in the matter even though he was the Commander in Chief?
You must think VERY little of him.
Almost as little as I do/did, whatever, he’s a forgotten, shriveled husk of a man now.
And you’re a liar.
Chas – by YOUR warped logic – since Clinton was dealing with the Iraq mess long before GWB was elected – he must be responsible for the war?
Correct?
As I recall, lady, That was an FBI and ATF operation… There were NO troops… Clinton was NOT directly in charge… certainly NOT as Commander in Chief… Now, the Feds had already been IN PLACE whether you want to call it a siege or not… BEFORE Clinton took office… LOOK IT UP instead of calling me a liar!!!
In fact, I did a tad bit of consultation work on that project myself… before AND after Clinton took office…
Dont call somebody a liar, unless you can back it up, “lady”!!!
I DID look it up, Chas.
You ARE a liar.
They first tried to issue arrest warrants on Feb 28th.
Read it and weep.
Then I’ll be expecting an apology.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front
[quote]SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 1993:
At about 9:30 a.m. agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms attempt to execute arrest and search warrants against David KORESH and the Branch Davidian compound. Gunfire erupts. Four ATF agents are killed and 16 are wounded. An undetermined number of Davidians are killed and injured. Within a few hours, the FBI becomes the lead agency for resolving the standoff. Jeff JAMAR is named the on-site commander. By the afternoon, advance units of the FBI’s Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) arrive, and telephone conversations are under way between KORESH, Steve SCHNEIDER, and Wayne MARTIN on one side and the ATF’s Jim CAVANAUGH and Waco Police Lt. Larry LYNCH on the other.[/quote]
So ruby ridge was papa bush’s fault since we was president then?
Ummmm let’s see… WHO was President when WE gave Saddam his weapons of mass destruction?? And WHO was President when Rumsfield was photographed shaking hands with Saddam?? WHO was President when WE decided Saddam was the best man for the job of fighting against Iran?? I dont believe Clinton had ANYthing to do with the current War in Iraq…
Except for the fact that Clinton believed Saddam was a BAD MAN that needed to be out of power…
GWB made the decisiion to purposely make the FALSE connection between Iraq, and 9/11 to get what he wanted…
So why do people on the right make a hero of a child molestion cop killer?
I KNOW all about those events in Feb. 1993… BUT, once again, that whole Waco thing was already being handled by the FEDS BEFORE Clinton took office… SO, no apology necessary GS…
TOM: Ruby Ridge WAS under Daddy Bush’s watch… It was a tragedy… But one that was made a tragedy by a total religious lunatic… I thought Daddy Bush made the right decision, so far as it was HIS decision to make…
GS: For the record, I think the FEDS did the RIGHT thing at Waco… both under Daddy Bush’s watch, and under Clinton’s watch… Again, it was a tragedy brought on by yet another religious lunatic…
TOM: I dont believe I have said that either Waco, or Ruby Ridge were the fault of the Presidents involved… just who’s watch under which they occurred…
The BLAME for both incidents is squarely on those who brought about the FED actions against them…
So why do people on the right make a hero of a child molestion cop killer?
Posted by: Tom Paine
TOM: That is a question that those on the RIGHT have never been able to answer… at least to my satisfaction, and to the satisfaction of MANY others… of either the Right or the Left.. I for one, dont see Waco OR Ruby Ridge as Left/Right issues… but rather as Right/Wrong issues…
To take that one step farther, Tom, why is it that so many seemed to be on McVeigh’s side after OKC??? I never “got” that connection either… except that there are a whole bunch of very sick and dangerous people running around in our midst… and some of them VOTE!!!
Ummm GS?? Funny thing about that link you posted… It says that page doesnt exist…
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front
You might want to check your URL again???
The operation that became Waco had been initiated before Clinton was inaugurated. However, had clinton cleaned house quickly upon taking office he might have been able to abort it. However, he left Bush hold-overs in key positions of power in ATF and Justice. These are the lieuteannts who carried out the initial raid that started the siege. Janet Reno came on the scene only AFTER the siege was in place.
The compound at Waco was torched by Vernon Howell. HE is the one to blame for that.
Thanks Ben… I appreciate that… I still think the FEDS handled it properly when all was said and done… Of course, we all regret the needless loss of life that happened there… on both sides…
Republican the ignorant writes,
You mean like the fired U.S. Attorney Scandal?
How’s did that work out for ya Democrats?
As I said before, “They got nothing.”
*****
Uh . . . you might want to actually read the newspaper, Republican, before you use it as a cost-saving replacement for toilet paper:
“For the fourth time in three months, a central figure in the US attorney’s scandle is resigning. . . . the highest ranking figure to go so far is Gonzales’s number two man at the Depart of Justice, Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty . . . ”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtMkBkIy0H0
McNulty claims that Karl Rove directly fired the eighth prosecutor. McNulty also claims that Rove coached his congressional testimony.
Gee, Ben… let’s see if GS calls YOU a liar too… :-)
Capn: Dont expect a response from Republican very soon… He still hasnt answered my request for a source on his tirade against Feinstein and hubby… I mean, RUSH hasnt been on long enough yet for him to pull a quote…
“Clinton was inaugurated on Jan 20, 1993, and the siege began on Feb 28 of that year.”
GS, using your sense of time, doesn’t that make the last recession Bush’s? After all, Bush was in office for 2 whole months when it started.
On a different note, can anybody here find a reference to any state that has legislated a BAN on building oil refineries?? I know none have been built in 30 years, but I cant seem to find any legislation that BANNED building refineries??
Chas – from my experience ‘back in the day’ what happens with refineries is that they get rebuilt ‘in place’ and continually expanded. IF they are functioning there is sufficient capacity.
One thing effecting KS right now is that the Oklahoma refinery from which we get a lot of our gas was hit by lightning and is only running about half capacity.
Thanks Ben… but what has me concerned is that the Reich Wingers keep spinning this refinery building thing in such a way as to “suggest” that there has been some kind of BAN on building new refineries…
In fact, I just heard that “suggestion” again on Rush’s show… guest host today…
And I can understand that OK refinery problem… but how does that effect these terribly high prices elsewhere?? I dont think CA, or NY get oil from that same OK refinery??
Capn: Dont expect a response from Republican very soon… He still hasnt answered my request for a source on his tirade against Feinstein and hubby… I mean, RUSH hasnt been on long enough yet for him to pull a quote…
Posted by: Chas. | May 15, 2007 at 11:25 AM
Not to defend Republican or do his work for him, but here you go:
http://www.metroactive.com/feinstein/
GS, you’re quite the cow, but you sound like my kind of cow.MOO, Baby!
The correct link is:http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/teach/wacotguide.html
Now, let’s be honest here – if we adopt Chas’ logic – we MUST blame Clinton for the Iraq War, likewise GWB is guilty for the recession.
That’s NOT my logic – but Chas’s.
I don’t agree whatsoever with it.
There were NO arrest warrants even issued during the time daddy Bush was in office – and although the FBI may have been monitoring the events – no actions were taken against Koresh until over a month AFTER Clinton took office.
Chas simply wants to push the blame.
Ben – I agree with you.
There’s no reason for me to call him a liar, Chas, he didn’t lie.
GS whom do we blame for Jones town? This America, fanatics are subject to the same laws as the general populace. They can not set up their own dominions, and kingdoms, even under the guise of religion.
Wow GS… now I need to raise the question of your reading ability… I never suggested Ben lied… I raised the question of whether you would call BEN a liar for agreeing with me… Read again, dear heart…
Chas,
Bottom line is refiners do NOT want excess capacity.
Lots of info, internal company memos, etc here,http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/energy/fs/
Cosmos: That being the case, why is it that the Right wing keeps suggesting that building new refineries is somehow being BANNED??
It’s understandable that big oil would not want excess… but to blame it on the Left, or on environmentalists, if it is the Oil companies themselves, is just plain lunacy!!
Chas – I was agreeing with Ben on the Vernon Howell thing, not that the siege was in place before Clinton took office – because it wasn’t. He claims it could have been averted had Clinton put different men in those positions – but that is also far different from what you stated.
If you checked the link – or bothered to search yourself, you would find that out.
I’m sure PART of the operation was already in effect – so what?
The SIEGE took place long after Clinton was in.
These are your EXACT words:
[Chas quote]“That siege of the compound was already started when Clinton and Co. took office…” [end Chas quote]
A combination of factors chas – tight capacity as they have chosen not to invest as much as they might have. Merger-mania has been a part of that – for example when Gulf was taken over by Chevron (’friendly’ to management; very UNFRIENDLY to the employees) several refineries were moth-balled. As cosmos correctly notes; the industry does NOT want excess capacity.
In many ways the old “Standard Oil” has been put back together with the mergers of the 80s and since then. There are no longer seven in the “seven sisters” (I’m not even sure I could name the old seven of that era any more)
Clinton’s big mistake was in not cleaning house thoroughly and quickly enough. The Bush hold-overs’ loyalty to their defeated leader became all too clear – after the fact.
GS —
Ben wrote: “The operation that became Waco had been initiated before Clinton was inaugurated.”
And: “However, had clinton cleaned house quickly upon taking office he might have been able to abort it. However, he left Bush hold-overs in key positions of power in ATF and Justice. These are the lieuteannts who carried out the initial raid that started the siege.”
So — Ben agreed with what I told you earlier… It was a project already started BEFORE Clinton took office… NOW, you say you agree with Ben???
My goodness… Tsk Tsk Tsk
GS: If you want to mince words over my use of the term “siege” then perhaps I could change the term… However, the Waco project was begun a considerable time BEFORE Clinton took office… THAT, my dear, was my entire point..
You almost sound as if you were on the side of the Davidians, although I would hope you werent… Vernon Howell(Koresh) was an idiot, a pervert, and a child molestor…
The fire in hell is burning a little hotter with the impending arrival of Jerry Falwell. Good luck Jerry!
By the way, that link you posted was from 1995!!! Come on, now, you can do better than that!!
Oh, and as for the Feinstein matter, I didnt see anything in that entire article that said Feinstein actually VOTED for any of those things that awarded contracts to any of her husband’s corporate holdings…
Now, IF she did, then I would say investigate all the way… However, the Republicans were in control of Congress then… and THEY didnt want an investigation… Maybe they were aware of some of their own members who were just as involved as Feinstein???
MIKE: Mercy sakes… is Falwell dead, or dying??? I didnt know he was even ailing…
Cosmos:
NO business wants excess capacity; unused capital simply costs money. In a perfect world, capacity would always match up with demand; it never quite does, of course. It seems to me that if refinaries are operating at 97-98% capacity routinely, which appears to be the case, that the oil companies have got the ration of capacity/demand figured out pretty well.
I suspect new refinaries are not being built for any number of reasons: the costs of such construction, not only the cost itself but increasing environmental regulation (a good thing, BTW). It’s cheaper to expand existing facilities than to build new ones. The relatively low return on investment for gasoline (as a percentage; the volume, of course, is massive) I’m sure plays a part, as does dealing with changing requirements for gas formulation by time of year, local market, etc. All of this, and I’m sure more, play a part.
Today, building a massive new gasoline refinary makes little sense. A capital investment of that size is expected to be useful (and profitable) for decades, at least. But it is unclear at this point just where the fuel market will be going in coming decades. Biofuels? Hydrogen? Hybrids? Electric? Just where will the technology shake out? Before I make a multi-billion dollar investment, I’d like a little more certainty about the long-term demand for the product produced years later.
Thinking out loud; this will probably get me in trouble.
Chas., from a brief report on cnn.com, he was found “nonresponsive” in his office at Liberty University this morning. He is in “grave” condition, as I recall the story. A spokesman says he has a history of cardiac trouble.
ChasHere is the story
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070515/ap_on_re_us/jerry_falwell
Chas,
Republican’s falsely blame the lack of new refineries on the Left because they can, and because Oil funds their campaign.
Fact-based arguments are irrelevant, when citizens are gullible, and media is dysfunctional.
GMC… I agree with you on your post… Now, to get to the root of the right wing insistence that it is the Left and Environmentalists (good folks), are being blamed by the Right for no new refineries… as is the case being made today by Rush’s guest host… He was making what I believe is a FALSE link between the high price of gasoline and no new refineries being built… Once again, a Reich Wing spin on truth…. Why should I be surprised???
GMC… I agree with you on your post… Now, to get to the root of the right wing insistence that it is the Left and Environmentalists (good folks), are being blamed by the Right for no new refineries… as is the case being made today by Rush’s guest host… He was making what I believe is a FALSE link between the high price of gasoline and no new refineries being built… Once again, a Reich Wing spin on truth…. Why should I be surprised???
GMC, your analysis of why there has been no new refinery construction for some 30 years seems to me right on point.
Heard this morning that the East Coast, for a change, has the lowest retail gasoline prices (on average) in the U.S., as the refineries serving that area are operational at the present. Our area of the country has been adversely affected by the fire at the Oklahoma refinery to which Ben referred earlier, as it is operating at some 65% capacity. Believe I heard this on CNN this morning.
Ooops… sorry about the double shot… dont know how that happened…
GMC – good analysis. One thing that has happened in the business is that the existing footprints have been able to be made to produce much more product. There are a number of reasons for this – I like to point to better catalyst chemistry but also have to acknowledge inproved engineering.
GMC70,
“It seems to me that … that the oil companies have got the ration of capacity/demand figured out pretty well.”
Yep… they even schedule maintenance, and reduce capacity/output, for periods that they know will have the highest demand. (sarcasm intentional)
From the Washington Posthttp://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/?hpid=topnews
FRESHMAN DEMOCRATS WHO OPPOSED THE McGOVERN AMENDMENT:
2006 % Bush ‘04%* Jason Altmire (Pa.) 52 54* Nancy E. Boyda (Kansas) 51 59* Christopher P. Carney (Pa.) 53 60* Joe Donnelly (Ind.) 54 56* Brad Ellsworth (Ind.) 61 62* Gabrielle Giffords (Ariz.) 54 53* Baron Hill (Ind.) 50 59* Nick Lampson (Texas) 52 64* Tim Mahoney (Fla.) 50 54* Jerry McNerney (Calif.) 53 54* Harry E. Mitchell (Ariz.) 50 54* Ciro Rodriguez (Texas) 54 57* Heath Shuler (N.C.) 54 57* Zachary T. Space (Ohio) 62 57* Charles A. Wilson (Ohio) 62 51
TARGETED FRESHMEN DEMOCRATS WHO SUPPORTED McGOVERN:
2006 % Bush ‘04 %* Michael Arcuri (N.Y.) 54 53* Joe Courtney (Conn.) 50 44* Kirsten Gillibrand (N.Y.) 53 54* John Hall (N.Y.) 51 54* Steve Kagen (Wisc.) 51 55* Ron Klein (Fla.) 51 48* Dave Loebsack (Iowa) 51 44* Patrick Murphy (Penn.) 50 48* Carol Shea-Porter (N.H.) 51 51* Tim Walz (Minn.) 53 51* John Yarmuth (Ky.) 51 49
The McGovern proposal called for redeploying troops from Iraq within 90 days and mandated complete withdrawal within 180 days — the most aggressive anti-war vote of the year so far.
The 2006 percentage is the congressperson’s winning margin (the first number after the Rep’s name); the 2004 percentage is the margin Bush won by in the respective Rep’s district (second number after the Rep’s name).
As the above article conveys, such an aggressive pull-out was ever considered very realistic, but instead it was a way of allowing some Democrats to say they voted for such a bill.
Those Democrats targeted by the Repubs and in red states tended to not support the proposal. Were they voting their convictions or something else? – one would have to wonder.
ITS OFFICIAL: Falwell is dead. I am sure the judging is going on as I type this. Somebody give that guy a fire suit.
ITS OFFICIAL: Falwell is dead. I am sure the judging is going on as I type this. Somebody give that guy a fire suit.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070515/ap_on_re_us/jerry_falwell
Farewell Falwel, are the fires hot in hell?
From the ‘Pub:******You mean like the fired U.S. Attorney Scandal?
How’s did that work out for ya Democrats?
As I said before, “They got nothing.”******
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R), seems to disagree with you. But then again, he is from the “reality-based” community, so what could he possibly know?
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/?hpid=topnews
I won’t dance on his grave
But, frankly, it’s tempting.
Falwell blamed 9/11 on lesbians and pro-choice activists.
He spawned a movement of “christians” who couln’t control their giddiness when Molly Ivins died. Falwell was so cocksure he spoke for God he lost track of just about everything Jesus taught — about peacemakers, the poor, the weak of spirit, etc.
I suspect the closest Jerry Falwell ever got, and ever will get, to God was when he was flying in his taxpayer-subsidized Learjet.
More likely, Falwell is having a bad day today. And for eternity.
“was ever” – should be “was never”
Enlightening commentary from the left.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102×2846415
Sounds like the commentary from the Immoral Majority when Molly Ivins died.
What’s your point?
WS-
I think the point is that while the “right” has long been pointed out as haters, really, hate has no party, political, or religiousboundries
littlejohn
That works.
Rest in Peace Mr. Falwell. You’ve gone to the place you were before you were born. Your children and your children’s children are your afterlife. Bye.
Whether Falwell enters heaven is not our call. Thankfully. I’ll not even attempt to pass such a judgement, whether I agree / like / disagree / despise a person in this life.
Those calls are God’s, not ours.
Dime’s worth (actually millions) of difference between Phelps and Falwell. Both fanatical haters.
So – who wants to talk about Hitler?
Your point is valid LJ. Hate has no political boundries. However, ignorance lives in the GOP. Christian evangelicals like Falwell have wielded their influence in Washington for too long. Why does this president have over 100 political appointees with bogus Christian universitiy degrees working in his administration? When the prez gets up in front of the world and uses terminology like “Crusades” it shows a radical Christian view. We cannot have another radical in the White House. It is time to seperate church and state.
My grandmother taught me to only say good about the dead.
Jerry Falwell is dead.
Good.
Not to worry, we still have Pat to tell us God’s mind, and explain his wrath.
I am sure you would point out his strong convictions GSheridan. You would tell us how great he was by sticking to his guns. And how he was smeared by democrats that led to his downfall. Leave it to the Reich Wingers to defend an unpopular foreign policy.
On a lighter note- a good laugh for fans of Fred Thompson- if you’re up on his little tit-tat with Michael Moore.
http://www.redstate.com/orhttp://www.breitbart.tv/?p=611
You people still amaze me with the hatred you spit. Your team cannot win. You are not even worthy opponents.
“I am sure you would point out his strong convictions GSheridan. You would tell us how great he was by sticking to his guns. And how he was smeared by democrats that led to his downfall. Leave it to the Reich Wingers to defend an unpopular foreign policy.”—————-
Actually, I was gonna say he reminded me a lot of you.
Mike–
My only point was what was stated. Hate knows no boundaries, as evidenced by many of the posts on the blog cited. The rest of your post is your opinion of the current administration,which is a separate discussion.
I never liked Falwell, he did not speak for me, but I would not rejoice over his death, or his supposed descent into hell. Neither would I over the death of any political or religious opponent, no matter his beliefs.It is just ironic that those who like to call the Republicans the “party of hate” can revel in it so much.
I could pull a Falwel and state why God had extracted this punishment, but I’m better than that!
You are not even worthy opponents.Posted by: fleettwood | May 15, 2007 at 01:57 PM
Thats right Fleetwood. Its about teams and winning and losing. Why do the Reich Wingers always try to simplify things down to a school yard game of kickball? Everything is so black and white. There has to be a winner or a loser. Take Iraq for instance, they frame every conversation with “we a snatching victory from our troops” You people can’t define victory at this point. The definition of victory has changed so many times.
The sooner you people recognize that we are all on the same team then maybe we can make progress. Until then we will take everything you say with a grain of competition salt.
So GSheridan, he was a 6′5″ black man? Never ceases to amaze me how you can get so personal so quick. And trust me, I am taking the high road right now. Don’t let that oversized hole under your nose get you in trouble.
LOL – full of piss and vinegar today, eh, Mike?
I don’t care if you’re black or pink – I was talking about behavioral patterns.
Sheesh- race bait lately?
And you know Mike’s behavior patterns how?? From reading comments on a Blog?? Thats even worse than race baiting!! That’s scribal profiling at its lowest!!
IMO, anyone who says they know anyone’s eternal fate is arrogant beyond belief and so ignorant that they don’t know they are ignorant.
On earlier comments re Waco, government wheels turn slowly. The Clintons were trying to get a new administration organized, and reports of the time said the effort was semi-chaotic. Both Bush administrations put old-time Washington hands into cabinet posts; the Clintons brought in their friends and other non-Beltway people.
A. The Waco take-down had to be in the works before the Clintons took office, unless some kind of state of emergency was declared in Waco which was not the case.
B. Nobody in Washington planned on mass carnage. Does anybody think that Janet Reno said, “Turn the compound into rubble?” Would Bill Clinton have given such authorization? No, the bureaucrats, holdovers from Bush, thought they could capture Koresh without difficulty. Things didn’t go according to plans, and the ATF ield commander, frustrated, acted on adrenaline, rather than reasoned good sense. There was nothing to be lost from pulling back, except pride for a failed set of initial tactics that needed thoughtful revision.
Then, after the event, the administration had to say there was no other option, which was disingenuous, because the Clintons didn’t want to take public flack for allowing a major domestic debacle to occur early in their term.
One of the most serious problems with the Clintons, and this is very true for Hillary, is a Bush-like inability to admit mistakes (although, Bush did admit to being an recovered alcoholic, he was so busted on the issue he had no choice).
The main difference is, the Clinton’s have always been “A” students, and this is to say they have always been conscientious in their work, and they operate in a high intelligence-thought realm. Some highly intelligent people can think well of themselves while also admitting, “Sometimes I do really stupid things,” while others have a narcissistic personality that blinds them to their foibles.
Hillary, for example, was planning for a presidential bid in 2002. She felt she had to project a centrist public persona. At that time, there was such massive national public hysteria in the shadow of 9/11 that only “extreme leftists” opposed military action against Iraq.
Hillary cannot SEE that she made a mistake, because in her view, her pro-war vote served its purpose to aid her future presidential bid, while opposing war would have ruined it.
The problem is, Congress’s war authorization was a major public-policy mistake, that wrecked a nation, created major crisis in the Middle East, killed and maimed tens of thousands of American men (and some women), and massively increased the federal debt.
In her mind, she believes that if she becomes president, then she’ll make the USA a better place, which is why she thinks she did “the right thing” in authorizing war, and the terrible current and future consequences suffered by Iraqis and Americans can be ignored.
I think America would be better off having a President who honestly believed and said to America, “I feel terrible for Iraqis and our young men and women, and I feel remorse for my part of the responsibility for this.” But she doesn’t have this empathy for others or self-soul-searching capacity.
We will need a healing president. I don’t think Hillary has the character necessary to do this. I don’t think she can ever weigh an issue and come to the wise realization, “This choice isn’t in my personal best interest, but it is better for other people, so I’ll choose it.”
Finally, it has been pointed out that Hillary often says, “Now some people may think…” and then goes on to “prove” their ideas wrong, rhetorically. But true leaders don’t do that. They don’t even always say, “I respectfully disagree with you.” Good leaders have the gift of being able to say, “You could be right. Let me think more about this,” and then later say, “You were right. You understand the issue better than I do.”
She’s shown herself to be a divisive “know it all” ever since she got on her high warhorse to work for Nixon’s removal from office in the Watergate hearings.
She chose a combative life pathway. Her recent debate comment about dealing with another 9/11 was, “retaliate”. Not, “I would help the victims as my first priority, gather information to determine what happened, who was involved and why, as my second priority, and then solicit the counsel of my cabinet and Joint Chiefs of Staff to pursue the best course of action.”
Ladies and GentlemenWhat you are witnessing is what I like to call the Reich Wing shuffle. Thats when they make a ridiculous statement and back pedal away when called on it.
Actually, I was gonna say he reminded me a lot of you.Posted by: GSheridan | May 15, 2007 at 02:00 PM
All I asked was “was he a 6′5″ black man?” And you accuse me of being racist? His world popularity is right up there with GWB. His unilateral invasions of foreign countries is right up there with GWB. His supporters unwaivering beliefs are similar to GWBs.But you want to compare me to Hitler?
Mike – I didn’t accuse you of being a racist – I asked if you were race-baiting.
There is a big difference you know.
You were the one who immediately jumped to the conclusion that I would defend his policies – just because I asked if anyone wanted to discuss him.
In reality, I wanted to discuss the idea that he didn’t perish in the Reichstags. But you were just so very, very quick to jump.
I just let you land in it.
Scribal profiling?
Bwaahaahaahaahaahaahaa
Scribal profiling?
On no. That’s a SIEGE upon my honor.
Question is – is it MY fault because the siege started after I posted?
Or is it the fault of WEBlog because they are hosting this site?
A quandry indeed.
lol
GS you approach the point of becoming nauseatingly obnoxious…
But, I suppose you have as much right to be here as the rest…
But, WHY do you feel the extreme bi-polar need to make your posts SO personal?? And YES I know what bi-polar means…
Honestly, CHILL!!!
Chas, you’re just sore because I called you out on the carpet after your big fib today. You have an uncontrollable to attack anything that isn’t Leftist and you show it by your lame attempt at revisionist history.
I don’t dislike you – but I have to set you straight when you go off like that. I’m doing you a favor, really.
Let’s make a deal – you quit making up shit, and I’ll quit calling you a liar.
Fair ’nuff?
UH OH. trouble in the polls, if you believe in such things> Myself, I don’t put to much stock in them, but many do. Perhaps over time they can tell trends. Anyway, here it is:
Congress Approval Down to 29%; Bush Approval Steady at 33%
http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=27589
Yeah but why are people upset with Congress?
That’s the question. It’s because they aren’t doing enough to stop Bush.
GS I DID tell the truth… I am not making up anything… and what’s more, you KNOW it… I dont have to make up anything about Waco, because I was a PART OF IT… Did you not READ that earlier??? Why do you think I wont let you get away with your typical Reich Wing Bull Sh** on this one??? I will NOT apologize to you for ANYthing I said… Because there is nothing I said that needs an apology!!! YOU called ME a liar… Not the other way around…. Dont you even forget that… This is one left winger that wont let you get away with your right wing SPIN on everything from sunrise to sunset…. And I am being very nice here… You come out like some vindictive anti-liberal ultra right wing conservative… But you dont even know the right platform… And I for one, am getting sick and tired of YOU PEOPLE expecting the rest of the world to bow down before you and make apologies for what we KNOW is true… and for what we KNOW you spin as being FALSE…. Now, if you are intent on arguing with somebody who was PART of the Waco tragedy… even in a small way… then, bring it on wench!!! Cause YOU got your hands full on this one!!
Furthermore, GOOD Nite and Good luck!!!
I’m STILL calling you a liar, Chas. Back up your story – or admit you pulled it out of thin air.
I linked you to a PBS site that documented the siege as starting on Feb 28. Clinton took office over a month earlier.
If you have PROOF that the siege started earlier – let’s see it.
Once and for all – put your money where your big mouth is.
Or admit you’re a liar and apologize.
For the record I’m posting the meaning of the word “siege,” since that is the word you used originally.
From Encarta
[definition]siege
noun (plural sieg·es)Definition:1. military operation: a military or police operation in which troops or the police surround a place and cut off all outside access to force surrender ( often used before a noun )[end definition]
Now, PROVE that all the records are wrong – and you are right.
I dare you.
I double dare you.
……. been one of those days here —- OK kiddies y’all get a cookie
I think I heard Tony Snow say that Wolfowitz girl friend problems at the World Bank are no big deal — and not a firing offense — then why was it at Boeing? A different standard?
Boeing CEO Resigns Over Affair With Subordinate
By Renae MerleWashington Post Staff WriterTuesday, March 8, 2005; Page A01
Boeing Co. announced yesterday that it forced its chief executive to resign after an investigation uncovered that he had an affair with a female employee.
Harry C. Stonecipher, 68, had rejoined Boeing from retirement 15 months ago to help repair the aerospace giant’s reputation after a string of military procurement scandals led to the resignation of his predecessor.
Don’t know why ya Libs are still defending Bill Clinton and bringin back Waco, oh that’s right, you want Bill to be the First Lady.
Prez Bill Clinton dodged responsibility for Waco. He made his appointed head Janet Reno take the fall. She gave the direct order to raid the Waco compound. If you were there, you would know this.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/waco/topten.html
I call Clinton’s law.
The first person to blame any current situation on the Clintons is a big fat loser.
This preznit has been on the job almost seven years and all the ills are STILL Clinton’s fault?
So much for the party of personal responsibility. I forgot the exemption from that when it comes to the presidency.
’cause ya know, being a repuke means it’s always someone else’s fault…
Janet Reno was NOT AG on Feb 28. And, the raid was ordered by ATF, not Justice. The existing staff at that time was dominated by hold-overs from the Bush 1 administration.
The Waco compound was torched by Vernon Howell.
The siege began Feb 28th. Clinton was sworn into office Jan 20th.
Case closed.
GSheridan
see Ben post above… Case not closed.