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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted May 13, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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40 Comments
Happy Mother’s Day to Political_Mom! We’ll eventually find a way to agree about what makes Kansas society better as we continue our civil discourse on various blogs,including this one.
KSMeadowlark
As a follow-up to the recent Cincinnati Enquirer article posted in an open thread,http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/05/open_thread_10.html, yesterday’s WorldNetDaily article discusses a problem that appears to be wider than just Kansas:
MATTERS OF LIFE AND DEATH’Pedophile protection racket’ still going strongAccusers say Planned Parenthood deliberately ignores law
“Despite widespread condemnation for performing abortions on underage girls while protecting the statutory rapists involved by not reporting them to authorities, Planned Parenthood is continuing the practice big-time – with many new cases of underage girls – according to an investigation of violations of state criminal reporting laws.”
“Critics of Planned Parenthood characterize the practice as a pedophile protection racket.’”
Michigan, Ohio, Kansas, … Why are young girls not protected by our society from predators?
While on this Mother’s Day, we should be thankful for the new Alexa’s Law that Governor Sebelius recently signed into law (see http://www.kansas.com/211/story/66297.html ), Governor Sebelius doesn’t seem too serious about promoting a Culture of Life in Kansas. Sebelius is scheduled to attend a Planned Parenthood fund raiser event in KCMO on Tuesday evening.
Perhaps Catholic Sebelius should wonder when Archbishop Naumann will take action on the pope’s recent comments on pro-choice politicians (http://civilliberty.about.com/b/a/257643.htm ).
The Pope was granted immunity by the “pro-life” President George Bush to block an investigation into the Pope’s role in hiding pedophiles. I don’t think the Catholic church has any right to criticize anyone.
Is this same Pope going to excommunicate politicians who support the death penalty, also an affront to the Church’s position?
I see meadowlark has beaten me to it, but Happy Mother’s day to PMom and all the other mothers that come to this blog. The mother has always been the bedrock of the family and the world, the CEO of any company or the President of the United States pale in any attempt to shape this future when it comes to building those that will be its future. Law giver, care giver, a warm hand on a cold night, no other “job” compare to that of any parent.
That’s nice, KS Meadowlark pats the Governor on the back.
Now about this separation of church and state thing. If the Catholic Church wants to excommunicate or keep a politician from getting that ritual call communion great, the American people would profits from the Catholic Church paying taxes.
And BYT is the Culture of Life anything like the Culture of Corruption?
How come the categories on the left have “Religion” and “Religious Right”, but no “Religious Left” or “Religious Moderates”? There are plenty of wackos for all. . .
Whoops, the categories are on the right side of the web page.
You all might want to watch Frontline Tuesday night. They’re doing a special on domestic spying as used by the homeland security act: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/homefront/
Of course, the less than 28%ers will try to justify it by saying , “if ya ain’t done nuthin’ wrong . . . “, but it is a stepping stones throw away from the totalitarian society bushco wants to rule over.
Doug – The death penalty in the church is not a part of the doctrine. It is part of the belief of the church. So it is not in the same category as abortion. There are many Catholics that believe one is an innocent life taken by abortion. With the death penalty it is not an innocent life, the individual decided to commit a crime knowing what the consequences would be.
The Catholic Church believes that an elected official should be held at a higher standard. Their actions are viewed by the public. Children should be able to look up to their leaders and learn from their actions.
If you don’t want to be held accountable for your actions then don’t run for office.
Oh yes, let us base our nation off the ideals of Catholics.
Meadowlark posts that pedophile stuff because he knows it gets my goat.
But thanks for the mother’s day wish. I don’t get a day off to enjoy it. I do salute my husband for being so AWESOME.
Oh yes, let us base our nation off the ideals of Catholics.
Meadowlark posts that pedophile stuff because he knows it gets my goat.
But thanks for the mother’s day wish. I don’t get a day off to enjoy it. I do salute my husband for being so AWESOME.
The Catholic Church believes that an elected official should be held at a higher standard. Their actions are viewed by the public. Children should be able to look up to their leaders and learn from their actions.
If you don’t want to be held accountable for your actions then don’t run for office.Posted by: sotheysaid | May 13, 2007 at 09:17 AM
Not often I agree with Cal Thomas, but he’s right when he argues that Catholics and other politically active Christian denominations hobble – severely – the only real value they can add to human existence (organized faith in something superior to the self) in order to work – ineffectively – in the realm of human existence most tarnished (politics).
For instance. The poster insists that the Roman Catholic Church believes in higher standards for our elected officials, yet Rome says nothing when Bush is completely, utterly wrong that Hussein’s incipient acquisition of WMD justified invasion of a soverign country and war as preemption of the threat – AND THEN REFUSES TO HOLD ANYONE ACCOUNTABLE WHEN HE’S WRONG.
Or when Dick Cheney swears at a US Senator, on the Senate floor. And there are untold additional examples of Bush administration behavior which are clearly nowhere near a “higher” standard, take your pick from the following.
From Frank Rich today: “there have been corruption, incompetence, and contracting or cronyism scandals in these cabinet departments: Defense, Education, Justice, Interior, Homeland Security, Veterans Affairs, Health and Human Services, and Housing and Urban Development. I am not counting State, whose deputy secretary, a champion of abstinence-based international AIDS funding, resigned last month in a prostitution scandal, or the General Services Administration, now being investigated for possibly steering federal favors to Republican Congressional candidates in 2006. Or the Office of Management and Budget, whose chief procurement officer was sentenced to prison in the Abramoff fallout. I will, however, toss in a figure that reveals the sheer depth of the overall malfeasance: no fewer than four inspectors general, the official watchdogs charged with investigating improprieties in each department, are themselves under investigation simultaneously — an all-time record.”
Under Bush standards for behavior of our elected officials are in a free fall.
The Cathollic Church and other politically active denominations should stay in the sectarian arena or be declared hypocrites (for not denouncing the Bush administration) or moral relativists (for calling for higher standards while supporting standards that under Bush are in free fall).
Bush is not Catholic neither is Cheney.
On Friday I did something I never do. I turned off Sirius for a day and instead listened to conservative Republican talk radio all day. One thing I noticed about these folks is that once you listen to one of them, you have pretty much listened to all of them because they all follow the same script. Whether it is Boortz, Hannity, Limbaugh, O’Reilly or Savage, they all parrot the same line. It is like they get their talking points from one single source (all of them seem to like The Drudge Report) and they all say the same old crap. None of them have guest that oppose them and only O’Reilly takes calls from people who oppose his point of view. The rest of them only take calls that start with crap like “you’re a great American and I just wanna agree with everything you say”. Should a caller with an opposing view somehow sneak past the call screeners, they are rudely denounced and quickly hung up on. I see now why Republicans have the views they have and are so out of tune with the real world around them- because they spend all their time only talking to each other. That is the only view they hear. And when, God willing, they get their asses handed to them in 2008, they will honestly wonder what happened.
Bush is not Catholic neither is Cheney.Posted by: sotheysaid | May 13, 2007 at 10:23 AM
Irrelevant to your statement that “The Catholic Church believes that an elected official should be held at a higher standard.”
Unless you meant that Catholics only hold elected Catholics to higher standard?
Catholic church doctrine: abortion bad, pedophilia good. There’s some nice priorities. Don’t abort ‘em, because we gotta rape them.
What about the Mormon Church. They believe in Racial Segregation, anti-abortion, believe that homosexuals are immoral and people not belonging to the church are going to hell and are considered sub-human. Not including polygamy and child marriages.
This is Harry Reid! The leader of the Democrats in the Senate.
The founder of the Mormon church was a child molester and he thought Blacks were the offspring of Cain copulating with animals. That’s simply historical fact.
When you run your own Radio Show Kev, you get the power, the caller doesn’t. Fact of life.
Pedant – You are correct. The Catholic Church believes that elected officials that are Catholic should be held at a higher standard regarding thier faith.
If you don’t want to be Catholic then don’t be Catholic. You are free to believe in a faith of your own choosing.
With all due respect, So, isn’t it a bit hypocritical of the Catholic Church to protect pedophiles but to condemn politicians that support a Pro-Choice position?
If you want to listen to thoughtful (and well educated) Republican talk show hosts, such as Bill Bennett, Mike Medved, Dennis Prager, Hugh Hewett et al., try 1450 KWBW, Hutchinson.
http://harpers.org/archive/2007/05/hbc-90000061
Karl Rove Directed DOJ Voter Suppression Project
The McClatchy Newspapers report today that in the final weeks before the midterm Congressional elections of November 2006, presidential political advisor Karl Rove orchestrated a large-scale effort to suppress voter turnout among potentially Democratic constituencies, leveraging Department of Justice resources in the process. Key to the project were P. Kyle Sampson, Alberto Gonzales’s chief of staff, and Matthew Friedrich, then chief of staff in the Department’s Criminal Division.
Friedrich’s testimony and statements to Congressional investigators made clear that the decision to proceed with “voter fraud” charges in a series of dubious cases resulted from direction from partisan political operatives in the White House, including Rove.
McClatchy writes:
Only weeks before last year’s pivotal midterm elections, the White House urged the Justice Department to pursue voter-fraud allegations against Democrats in three battleground states, a high-ranking Justice official has told congressional investigators.
In two instances in October 2006, President Bush’s political adviser, Karl Rove, or his deputies passed the allegations on to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales’ then-chief of staff, Kyle Sampson.
These and similar allegations make increasingly plain why Rove and the White House are going to such tremendous lengths to block his testimony under oath.
*****
Which is corroborated by BBC Investigative Reporter Greg Palast:
Amy Goodman and Greg Palast Mom’s Day broadcastGreg Palast
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php...
This Sunday 7pm (EST) – on C-SPAN’s Book TV Amy and Greg have a couple of neo-cons for lunch recorded live at the LA Book Fest. Want a taste? Read the Interview with Palast from the Dollars & Sense magazine spring issue about to hit the streets …
“I have Karl Rove’s emails. No kidding.”
Dollars & Sense: In the new edition of your book, ARMED MADHOUSE, you report on the theft of the 2008 election. How do know what they’re doing? Any way to stop them?
Palast: I know because I have Karl Rove’s emails. No kidding. He and his team aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer. They sent copies of their plans to GeorgeWBush.ORG instead of GeorgeWBush.COM addresses — and, heh heh, they ended up in my in-box. Who says this job ain’t fun?
Dollars & Sense: Bush fired eight prosecutors. You were behind the scenes on that story long before it broke in the US. What are they still withholding from us?
Palast: Look, it’s all about VOTES. You’ll see that the prosecutor that Karl Rove insisted in putting in place is a slithery character named Tim Griffin. He’s the guy I busted as the spider-mind behind the “caging lists” which purged thousands of Black voters. The prosecutors fired, as you’ll see in Armed Madhouse, include those, like David Iglesias in New Mexico, who refused to bring phony cases of fraud against legitimate voters. It’s a matter of economics: the Republican party is systematically knocking out lower-income voters; that makes their purges racially biased — but my data show that’s just the effect of hunting down and attacking the ballot power of working class and poor voters. Disenfranchisement is class war by other means.
Actually Kev,
YOu’ll have to listen to them a little longer than one day.
The talk show hsts that you mentioned are all as different as night and day.
Rush Limbaugh very seldaom has a guest. He often takes liberal callers and unless they are extreme nuts he’s usually pretty polite to them.
Sean Hanity has a lot of guests and he has as many liberal guests as conservative ones. He also takes a lot of liberal callers and he’s extremely polite to them unless they are extreme nuts.
Neal Boortz is not as conservative as most, he’s a libertarian. He also has a wide variety of guests and he’s rather a moderate all in all.
Michael Savage is very right wing and usually only has guests that are sypathetic to his point of view. He’s pretty much rude to most callers.
O’Reilly is also moderate. He’s usualy polite to people that deserve it.
Absolutely none of them ‘follow the same script’. They often have similar views on the news of the day, but their programing is very different.
Hank
Gee, isn’t The Wichita Eagle a McClatchy owned paper?
Because I didn’t see this story in our paper today.
Must be that “liberal” bias . . .
Lots of meaningless Riverfest crap though.
Give the people circuses and maybe they’ll pay no attention to what’s going on behind the curtain.
Unless you meant that Catholics only hold elected Catholics to higher standard?Posted by: Pedant | May 13, 2007 at 10:53 AM
Pedant – You are correct. The Catholic Church believes that elected officials that are Catholic should be held at a higher standard regarding thier faith.Posted by: sotheysaid | May 13, 2007 at 03:57 PM
Not sure we’re on the same page here.
I’m saying that if your Church supports Bush then it’s tacitly complicit in lowering standards of presidential behavior.
I believe you’re saying that, in the case we have a Catholic president, the Church feels free to ex-communicate him or her if it wishes.
Ok, thanks for the update (I guess).
Yes, Rush Limbaugh is very polite. Why, I remember when he told an African American caller to take the “bone out of his nose” can call back later. That was a very kind thing to do. The caller obviously did not know that the bone in his nose was making it difficult to understand him. Rush was just being polite when he pointed that out.
What a nice guy.
And that thing about Chelsea Clinton being the White House Dog? Everyone loves dogs – what is the problem?
Well Clark,
I seriously doubt that you remember much of anything about Rush Limbaugh and his radio show. I doubt that you listen very much at all.
I spoke in generalalities about his show and you drum up some old, very old, specific liberal talking points.
Rush Limbaugh uses his callers to make a point about some subject that he wants to talk about. Most the subjects of his callers that he takes correspond to things that he has prepared in advance to talk about.
In general he is very polite to them.
As far as Chelsea Clint goes and his remarks about her, he apologized and never spoke about her again. The man is on thirty hours a week. Every now and then he makes a remark that he regrets.
Your examples do nothing to refute my remarks.
Hank
Mr. Price, the list of Limbaugh’s racist remarks is long and well documented. As for Chelsea – Limbaugh did apologize – about ten years later.
He also called the twice elected President of the United States a “turd licker.”
If a left wing commentator called Bush a similar name, the right would be screaming for his execution.
Clark,
You are very saddly mistaken.
First of all, Limbaugh never called Chelsea a dog. I was watching him on TV when it happened, he said something either about her and held up a picture of a dog or he was talking about a dog and held up a picture of her. I do know that he apologized right away. He may have apologized ten years later, . . . again.
Hank
WS Clark!
You’re a liar!
Oh, and Limbaugh never said that Chelsea was the White House dog?
Nice try, Mr, Price and Mr. Williams.
If he didn’t make such a statement, why did he apologize?
He said, “you know that Socks is the White House cat, but did you know that there was a White House dog?”
Then they showed a picture of the thirteen year old Chelsea Clinton.
How else was the world supposed to take it?
And no, Limbaugh denied the incident until years later when he apologized in person to Hillary Clinton.
Dear Mr. Clark,
I appreciate the fact that you feel you can add something to the discourse, about conservative radio talk show hosts, but you should try to stay on point.
The point that I was making in my first post was that Kev didn’t know enough about the hosts that he specifically mentioned to intelligently discuss them.
You have demonstrated that you are realtive ignorant of the topic also. Nice try though.
Hank
Whatever, Mr. Price.
If Limbaugh ate children alive, the conservatives would still defend him.
There are many websites that monitor and document Limbaugh’s program. Limbaugh himself does not archive his programs to avoid having his words used against him, so others do it for him.
I could really care less about Rush Limbaugh or what he says, but I do find it humorous that SOME folks choose to defend him, while condemning those on the left for much lesser crimes.
IT”S A JOKE
Hillary Clinton was out jogging one morning along the parkway when she tripped, fell over the bridge railing and landed in the creek below.Before the Secret Service guys could get to her, 3 kids who were fishing pulled her out of the water.She was so grateful she offered the kids whatever they wanted.The first kid said, “I want to go to Disneyland.” Hillary said, “No problem, I’ll take you there on my special Senator’s airplane.”The second kid said, “I want a new pair of Nike Air Jordan’s.” Hillary said, “I’ll get them for you and even have Michael sign them!!”The third kid said, “I want a motorized wheelchair with a built in TV and stereo headset!” Hillary was a little perplexed by this and said, “But you don’t look like you’re handicapped.”
The kid said, “I will be after my dad finds out I saved you from drowning.”
Clark, Clark, Clark!
“Limbaugh himself does not archive his programs to avoid having his words used against him, so others do it for him.”
You’re just putting me on now! Go to his website, he archives his shows.
“I could really care less about Rush Limbaugh or what he says,”
Really? Then why even get involved in a thread you know nothing about?
Hank
WSC,Just remember this one simple fact of life: anyone who claims to have expertise on conservative AM radio programs is entirely too stupid to argue with. QED.
LOL Ken, that’s funny.
“Why, I remember when he told an African American caller to take the “bone out of his nose” can call back later.”
True, that incident happend. But not when he was national. When he was a local radio host. You dont “remember” that incident. You saw it mentioned somewhere on the internet and lied about having remembered it yourself.
“If he didn’t make such a statement, why did he apologize?”
Because the real incident in question actually demanded an apology.
“Limbaugh did apologize – about ten years later.”
True. He mentioned this after he made the apology. He said that if he ever came face to face with either of Chelseas parents, he would apologize to them about the incident. He finally got his chance ten years later when he and Hillary were invited to the same wedding.
“He also called the twice elected President of the United States a “turd licker.”
False. He never did that and I defy you to provide a transcript of that incident.
“He said, “you know that Socks is the White House cat, but did you know that there was a White House dog?”
Then they showed a picture of the thirteen year old Chelsea Clinton.”
False.
Copyright 1992 Multimedia Entertainment, Inc.RUSH LIMBAUGHSHOW: RUSH LIMBAUGH (9:00 PM ET)November 6, 1992, Friday 11:15 AM
LIMBAUGH: Thank you. This show’s era of dominant influence is just beginning. We are now the sole voice of sanity, the sole voice of reason. We are the sole voice of opposition on all television. This is the only place you can tune to to get the truth of the opposition of the one-party dictatorial government that now will soon run America. Oh, I mean, we are only beginning to enjoy dominance and prosperity. Most of these things on the in-out list are not even funny, but a couple of them–one of them in particular is.
David Hinckley of–of the New York Daily News wrote this, and what he has–he’s got–it’s very strange. He says, In: A cute kid in the White House. Out: Cute dog in the White House.’ Could–could we see the cute kid? Let’s take a look at–see who is the cute kid in the White House.
(A picture is shown of Millie the dog)
LIMBAUGH: (Voiceover) No, no, no. That’s not the kid.
(Picture shown of Chelsea Clinton)
LIMBAUGH: (Voiceover) That’s–that’s the kid. We’re trying to…
____________________
“Limbaugh himself does not archive his programs”
False. He has tapes and transcripts of both his radio and tv shows
(A picture is shown of Millie the dog)
LIMBAUGH: (Voiceover) No, no, no. That’s not the kid.
…. and you want us to believe that was an accident?