The collapse of Iraq is creating a refugee crisis for the region, the New York Times reported. An estimated 2 million Iraqis have fled their country since the war began. And the exodus has gotten worse as sectarian violence has increased — about 50,000 people a month are now leaving Iraq.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/22
- Regular on Open thread 11/22
- Regular on Open thread 11/22
- Rage on Open thread 11/22
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/22
- Chas on Open thread 11/22
- BlueJay on Open thread 11/22
- Boxlock20 on Open thread 11/22
- satatom on Open thread 11/22
- JimJohnson on Open thread 11/22
142 Comments
We like to spin it as, Iraqis are now free to travel to other countries!
Just think in another 4.5 years the only people left in Iraq will be Al-Quida, Bush can then say it is terrorist central, and be correct for once!
According to Dick Cheney, there is no civil war. Otherwise the Iraqis would be fleeing the country!
If the exodus continues, there will be no one left in Iraq but American soldiers. Then bush can claim his real victory.
Meanwhile, the Bush Administration continues to refuse to realistically face the refugee crisisit has deliberately created. We only allow a microscopic fraction into this country and refuse to help those countries that are bearing the burden of the refugee population. Of course, most of the refugees are being hosted by countries that we consider to be our enemies.
“Realistically face the refugee crisis he has deliberately created.”
Oh yeah, I remember seeing the Bush policy outlining the plan to create refugees.
What the hell? You know what? If you could remove the blanket statements, remove blaming one person for every problem, and the quantum leaps of jumping to conclusions…..
Sol,
Please give at least one example of a modern war which did not cause a refugee crisis.
Our rulers should know better.
Hmmm, 50,000/year according to the Demostats. Coincidentally, that is 600,000 per year year, same as the supposed Demostatic Iraqi death toll.
In a nation that was dominated by Sunni Rule for many years, why do you think so many who were active Ba’ath party members and supporters of Saddam Husayn would leave Iraq?
Could it be that the Shiite population hates their guts? :)
In order to be granted residence in Jordan for example, it is required that 100,000 Dollars U.S. be required in assets into Jordanian Bank Accounts before residency is granted. Don’t sound very poor to me. Maybe the Mexican Illegal Immigrants could take financial lessons from these “poor” Iraqis?
Perhaps the IPCC Climate Alarmists are doing the stats for the DemoStatic Party? I mean, they only need to report the numbers that matter to their spin on the topic.
Let’s see, 12,000,000 illegal immigrants are in the U.S. after crossing the border from Mexico – refugees from Mexico if one wants to look at it that way.
The total of Iraqi immigrants to other countries according to the DemoStatic numbers is at 2,400,000 over a 4 year period.
600,000 per year of Iraqi refugees versus 3,000,000 per year of Mexican refugees per year.
Who has the bigger problem? :)
BTW, there are more people living in the state of Texas than the total population of Iraq.
The number of illegal Mexican immigrants prosecuted annually tripled during that five-year period, to 30,848 in fiscal year 2005, the most recent figures available. But that still represented less than 3 percent of the 1.17 million people arrested that year.
So Texas receives 1,170,000 refugees per year which over a four year period is 4,680,000. That’s almost twice the refugees DemoStatic number of Iraqi Refugees!!!
Of course, the DemoStats won’t say there is a problem in Texas or in Mexico for that matter. It’s not politically advantageous to the DemoStats to belittle their (cough) potential voting populous after all.
Perhaps the DemoStats need to get on with their population statistics so they can match them up with the latest poll numbers on Bush approval rating and how many people who still want to live in New Orleans. Sort of like the Medical Doctor who stayed and gave of his own free time free medical care in New Orleans only to been chased out by the thuggery and crime in N.O.
Perhaps if the DemoStats mix their numbers enough, they can achieve the results they want by enlarging their own Congressional Districts with “refugee” populations from Mexico.
I wonder if the illegal immigrants from Mexico – sorry, meant to say refugees are required to have 100,00 dollars U.S. in their bank accounts like Jordan requires?
Perhaps we will never know, as the DemoStats keep changing the numbers on us.
:)
Tom,
Please give one example of Bush intentionally implementing a refugee crisis.
It rained today. Rained too much. Damn Bush !!!! My roses got over watered and died. Damn Bush.
Y’all really need to take a step back and look at how exceedingly childish it is to blame Bush for everything!!!
Tom, you blamed Bush for having the 10th Mt Div in Iraq. Do you honestly believe that Bush is mapping out the deployment of every battalion, brigade and division?
As to your questions yesterday. I was a paratrooper. I was trained in one method of rapid infil. Once we were ‘boots on the ground’ we were just like every other soldier. The 10th is the SAME. There are no specialized mountain MOSs, they just have extra training in a specific set of infil/exfil techniques.
But yeah, it can be seen as a misnomer, so jump on the “Bush’s fault” band wagon like all the others.
Sol,
Intentionally invading a foreign country is going to create a refugee crisis. Tell me the White House and its war planners didn’t know this basic fact of modern warfare.
My comments about 10th Mountain were not that Bush had them in Iraq – my specific complaint is that Bush does NOT have them in Afghanistan, and the people who were behind 9/11 are still running loose there.
I blame Bush for getting us into a war of choice that wasn’t necessary (Iraq) instead of doing the job right in a war of necessity (Afghanistan).
I think your fellow paratroopers would disagree with your characterization that they’re just like any other boots on the ground. :)
Funny, I thought the 10th Mountain Division went mainly to Afghanistan on prior occasions and they were rotated out and replaced by another division…
Or perhaps Tom doesn’t believe in the Army’s Divisional rotation policy and leave them in place.
Sol – is your defense of Bush that he didn’t realize that his invasion without any planning for post-war security would cause this to happen? He was fully informed that it would.
I am simply assuming that Bush is the decider and that he is therefore responsible for what he decides.
Tom,Being born means you will see a rainy day or two. So should I blame my parents for losing my roses? Damn them for having me and DELIBERATELY killing my roses. Do you see how the logic breaks down?
You blame Bush for NOT having the 10th in Afghanistan. So you want Bush to micro manage the war? And as I pointed out to you, these troops are not special. They have SOME extra training, but their every day job is just like every other soldiers. Army Rangers get about the same amount of repelling training that the Mt division does. Not every Mt div soldier is trained in rough terrain techniques. Special Forces troops have MUCH more training in rough terrain techniques than a 10th trooper.
As I said before, it is a misnomer that opens gaits for Bush bashers.
As for my fellow paratroops, we all know what we are Tom. I served for 10 years with them. We have a little more pride than some ‘leg’ units, but in the end, we are all soldiers trained in a specific MOS and that MOS is what we are expected to perform.
Ben,How is your attack on Bush different than the rain analogy I used?
Tom,Take for instance the 101st Airborne Division. They aren’t Airborne qualified. They are Air Assault.
Republican,
If the 10th was rotated back in-theater, why weren’t they rotated back to Afghanistan?
Why is Osama bin Laden still on the loose? Why is Mullah Omar still free?
Why are our armed forces getting chewed up in someone else’s civil war, instead of tracking down the people that killed 3000 American civilians?
Being born means you will see a rainy day or two.Posted by: SolDevVB | May 16, 2007 at 08:51 AM
Oh my.
This is how you justify a refugee crisis caused as a direct result of the US invasion and occupation of Iraq?
The refugees were predictable, and were predicted. To try to excuse the issue as some unforeseen accident of the war is mind-boggling.
Again I ask: Please cite one modern war that did not have a refugee crisis. Again I ask: Please convince me that Bush and his war staff did not know, prior to the invasion, that there would be a refugee crisis.
Tom,
Because the 10th has units with the MOSs needed in Iraq. They are filling the jobs of like MOSed troops that rotated back to the world. Why don’t you get that?
Osama… Why is there an FBI’s 10 most wanted list? Why are they not captured? I mean they are somewhere in the US… But Osama is one man loose in the WORLD and you are pissed cause we haven’t found him yet?
What the hell, I’ll say it for you; Bush’s fault.
The armed forces are fighting a war that CONGRESS approved.Period.
Would someone from the right please address what Ron Paul said in last nights debate? He asked what would we do if China started building bases in Mexico? Once you answer that question then you get some of the thought process of the terrorists. He is the best candidate on the right by far. Seems like he is the only one living in reality.
Sad, the apologists have run out of excuses for this war, so the end result is to just mock those who disagree with it.
Face it, there simply are no more reasons for this war and there never were.
How could anything that the New York Times prints be considered creditable? It isn’t anything but a mouthpiece for the left wing of the Democratic Party.
Tom,
Let’s see. First of all, this started by an assertion from Ben that the refugee crisis was a deliberate act by Bush. As you and Ben seem to be on one side of the debate, then the burden of truth falls on you two. So please cite where Bush deliberately implemented a refugee crisis.
The rain thing is spot on. Rain is not an unforeseen accident. It is going to happen.
I really don’t see anywhere where I have justified anything. Please cite where I have. And again, please cite where Bush specifically implemented a ‘Refugee Crisis’.
“Ben,How is your attack on Bush different than the rain analogy I used?”
I am assuming that the rain was not caused by rain-making.
Let us suppose instead that your parents had gone out and drowned the roses with a hose. then they might be to blame.
P_Mom,
Yup Hillary just needs to keep apologizing for getting us into this war. Or have you forgotten that she was behind the idea?
Sol – The Decider Decided to invade; knowing all along that such action would create many refugees. The Decider Decided to make no provision for post-war security. The Decider Decided not to provide for the refugees.
Using your rain analogy correctly: suppose I DECIDE to build my house in a flood plain next to a river. It rains and, predictably, the river floods my house. That is my fault. So it is with the Decider – it was his Decisions that predictably led to this mess.
Uh oh, some version of Godwin should be called on the first variation of “Bill Clinton! Bill Clinton!”
Yep, in the land of wingnuttia, the war is Hillary’s fault…
Usually it is pauli who resorts to “They did it too!” first. This time it’s solly.
Ben,
You made my point. Bush didn’t go out and create refugees, as your initial assertion states. CONGRESS approved a war, which Hilary supported – remember THAT one? Refugees are a result of the civil infighting , insurgents and intra sectarian fighting.
So to blame Bush for what the majority of Congress voted for and for what the generals and troops have been trying to accomplish, makes you sound like an sharpshooting opportunist.
Try this one, a HMMWV got a flat tire today. Damn Bush!!! Damn him !!!! Makes about as much sense.
Grrl,
That FACT that congress voted for the war should be overlooked because it interferes with Farmie bashing Bush? My apologies then.
..and what is this with the new “war czar”? I thought the preznit was the decider. Now he needs another layer of “management” for this war?
When in doubt, create a new position so you can blame them when it all goes to shit. Add some staff to that new position so it LOOKS like they had what they needed to do the job.
Yep. Bush really is the CEO preznit. Predictable org chart shufffle.
I wonder if he has finally realized he cant trust cheney and his “decider” skills have been shown to be thin?
Of course, being a republican means never having to say yer sorry.
or wrong.
Hey folks, I actually have to earn a buck or two. Back in a few.
Sol – the Decider Decided to invade. Congress (including Hillary) foolishly gave the Decider the authority to make such a Decision.
If a gang-banger Decides to shoot up a house and ‘accidentally’ kills a few occupants to we find him guilty of murder? YES. Even though he “didn’t go out and kill people”; he only wanted to shoot up the house itself.
There were a buncha senators who voted for the war, solly. You chose to pin it on Hillary. Face it solly, you bet on the wrong horse when you threw in with the “decider”.
Either he is or he isnt. I didnt realize the preznit was taking war advise from Hillary. My bad.
If a group of people voted to give the gang banger the authority, then they should all be tried. The word accessory comes to mind. Ever heard of that one?
Is this the new republican meme? I mean to go along with the poor persecuted majority of christian white guys?
The war is the fault of CONGRESS?
How conveeeeeenient. Especially now that congress is in democrat hands. Funny, it was in repuke hands when the vote was taken based on false information supplied by the white house and darth cheney.
Remember the rovester’s first rule of dirty tricks. Whatever is your weakness, pin it on the other guys, no matter how absurd that is.
The public fell for it before, why not keep working it? Party of corruption? Whine about ALLEGATIONS concerning Feinstein while the jack abramhoff crew goes free.
Documented republican voter fraud? Whine about voter id even if the majority of fraud is in COUNTING votes, not casting them. Then fire USA’s because they dont fall for the trumped up charges against the opposition.
Yep, I see solly and his merry band of republican kookaide drinkers are following the rove playbook very carefully.
Hell, they even take turns getting up in the middle of the night to be first on the open thread.
Heheheheh. How’s that all working for ya?
jesus wept.
Yes. However your analogy is flawed. If a cop had done that and the City had authorized the cop to carry a gun and ‘use it as needed’ then the City’s liability is at laest somewhat limited.
Oh I love it, so since Bush is going down, he wants to take congress with him?
Not. It’s not Hillary who stood before us saying that they had the intel that put us at immediate risk. It’s not Hillary who sent prisoners to secret camps. YOu have nobody to lay the blame at on this one, except Bush & Co.
We just chose to believe him…and with the warning that ‘you’d better be right’.
…and what about all the GOOD things happening in iraq?
You know ALL the schools that are being built, the hospitals, the water systems, the electricity, ya know? All the things the bushies say are GOOD for the country?
Why is the population fleeing in the face of ALL THOSE SCHOOLS AND STUFF being built by the ‘mericans?
Maybe because it’s all a lot of bushit?
Or maybe because they value their lives and safety over a few bricks and mortars that are being destroyed as fast as they are built?
Damned iraqis! How ungrateful of them not to adopt the republican values of wealth and property uber alles.
Gosh, maybe the iraqis are fleeing because they want a future? You know, other than the future of death and destruction that bushco promises?
Gee, ya think they’d rather live under iranian or syrian or jordanian rule than under the thumb of the ruthless americans?
Nawwwwww. Bush would have told us if THAT was true.
heheheheheh!
That’s what I like about you Tom, you keep asking questions loaded with party prejudice and un-American rhetoric.
Why don’t you go to the Fort Drum website and find out about the 10th mountain division?
Where is Jimmy Hoffa Tom? And the people that killed him?
Have you found the gunman on the “grassy knoll” yet Tom?
How come Clinton and all cronies made these statements against Iraq ,supporting the war and claiming to know about WMD?
http://republikan.typepad.com/republikansan/2007/04/democratic_part.html
Video evidence of all those Democrats saying Saddam has WMD and Clinton stating about Saddam Husayn “Or we give him some ambiguous third route to give him more opportunities.”
Or how about Madeline Albright, Secretary of State under the Clinton Administration describing Iraq as the greatest security threat to the United States.
Of course all of those other fine Democrats making supporting statements including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senator Harry Reid, Senate majority leader?
What a bunch of spineless, double talking, two-faced, cheese-eating surrender monkeys you Democrats are.
Say one thing one day and speak out the side of your mouth the next.
Pathetic hypocrites.
OMG, repuke, if you can stop pimping your own lonely blog for a few minutes…
“Again I ask: Please cite one modern war that did not have a refugee crisis. Again I ask: Please convince me that Bush and his war staff did not know, prior to the invasion, that there would be a refugee crisis.”
Now, what part of that is a question “loaded with party prejudice and un-American rhetoric”?
The very definition of over the top. Just looking for another opportunity to spill more “bad Hemingway” on the blog?
And what does jimmy hoffa have to do with anything? Just more distration to the real issues?
heheheheheh. Well, at least he didnt say “Bill Clinton! Bill Clinton!” like the other bushbots here.
Oh, and a little advise? Please wipe the spittle and froth from your keyboard before you launch into one of your nonsensical tirades.
As Tracy would say “pitiful. Just pitiful”.
It must suck to be you these days…
“Demostats.”
Good one. That’s about right.
Funny thing – with all the earsplitting screeching from the liberal moonbats, shrieking out of the Bat Cave this fine morning – the racket is drowning out other news.
Like this:
[quote]“MOST Iraqis believe life is better for them now than it was under Saddam Hussein, according to a British opinion poll published today.
The survey of more than 5,000 Iraqis found the majority optimistic despite their suffering in sectarian violence since the American-led invasion four years ago this week.
One in four Iraqis has had a family member murdered, says the poll by Opinion Research Business. In Baghdad, the capital, one in four has had a relative kidnapped and one in three said members of their family had fled abroad. But when asked whether they preferred life under Saddam, the dictator who was executed last December, or under Nouri al-Maliki, the prime minister, most replied that things were better for them today.
Only 27% think there is a civil war in Iraq, compared with 61% who do not, according to the survey carried out last month.
By a majority of two to one, Iraqis believe military operations now under way will disarm all militias. More than half say security will improve after a withdrawal of multinational forces. “[end quote]
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1530762.ece
Gee – it must just suck for the querulous Dems – trying so hard to make everyone believe the Iraqis detest Americans – when just the opposite is true.
Could it be that it’s the libbies that really hate America?
Hmmmmm…..?
All I know is that those Iraqis who can seem to be voting with their feet concerning the situation in Iraq, notwithstanding the results of the March 18 poll linked by GS.
I suppose all the millions that have left Iraq did so to use up their frequent flyer miles?
Things being so good and all!
yea, 5k in Iraq, what about the millions who left. Lets see, that 5k is less than 1% of the population of Iraq. So, thats 5k saying life is better and 2 million that says its worse. hum… lets ask my pre-kindergarden kids who wins. Yep, the 2 mil!
More than half say security will improve after a withdrawal of multinational forces. “[end quote]Posted by: GSheridan | May 16, 2007 at 10:32
You said a mouthful GS. If they feel that way then lets get our troops out of there.
Gee Mike, how unlike you to pull one small sentence out of an entire article and try to use it to base your agenda upon.
Not.
lol
Vaughn – how many fled under Saddam?
Thats the republican way GS. You have taught me well
GS, I don’t know. Some did flee, given the Iraqi exile communities which existed pre-invasion. I’m sure there are numbers somewhere that might answer your question. My speculation is not as many, given the totalitarian government then in place.
BTW, in looking at the poll, I could not discern the population from which the 5000 respondents were selected, i.e., were the Iraqis polled living uniformly throughout the country, were the 5000 concentrated in the southern provinces where there wasn’t any real violence occurring at the time the poll was taken, how many Kurds were polled, etc. I also didn’t notice any attempt to disaggregate the data, e.g., of those polled living in Baghdad, what were their responses compared to those polled living in the relatively peaceful areas of the country.
Good comments VT. With about 10% of the population having fled the country and another 10% ‘internally displaced’ I find it difficult to place much faith in that poll.
Gee, I wonder what kind of results you would get from a poll of Rush or Air America listeners?
How many Kurds were polled Vaughn? How was life for the Kurds under Saddam?
BTW, the Kurds are doing quite well. I watched the news documentary on them and they have safe open markets, prosperous economy and very little threats from terrorist activity. The terrorists know that the Kurds will skin them alive and feed their entrails to buzzards if they mess with them.
farmgull, What part of your post adds to the topic? Or is it more Democratic Road Kill offered up as talking points?
Yes. However your analogy is flawed. If a cop had done that and the City had authorized the cop to carry a gun and ‘use it as needed’ then the City’s liability is at laest somewhat limited.Posted by: Ben | May 16, 2007 at 09:51 AM
Ben, you astoundingly proved my point and have shown your bias. Bush is not dictating what troops do and where. That is left to the Joint chiefs, down to the corps generals, down to the division commanders, and on down the pipe. But you just want to blame Bush.
And again for all you Bush bashers, the vote to go to war was bipartisan. For those of you who still don’t understand, that means that both sides (left and right) voted to go to the war.
If you want to spin the intel and say that it came from the white house, then there is only one avenue in which you are correct. The CIA briefed the With house and the white housed briefed congress and the nation. Anything else is false propaganda.
So where are the cries of outrage against ALL THE MEMBERS of CONGRESS that voted for the war? That openly supported the war, until it got ugly?
By the way, we won the war. It is the peace we have not secured yet. The military was thoroughly defeated by our military. It is the sects and factions inside the sects that we are fighting, now, along with al-Qaida.
Those two million Iraqis just couldn’t handle all the freedom we brought. I’m sure they aren’t heading to America since Republicans are saying life in Iraq is just as violent as in America. The question is, where in America do you drag a hundred corpses out of a river?
“Mission Accomplished”
Doug,
They do have freedom now. Who is keeping them from being free? You have Iraqis killing Iraqis. They are doing it in large scale, but to put it in perspective, why do blacks still kill blacks? Why are whites violent against whites? Why do Hispanics steal from Hispanics?
Put things into perspective instead of putting everything into one line so you can easily point your finger at it.
What we’re fighting now are the people of Iraq, as they try to rid themselves of us.
Bush likes to call them terrorisis, as he love shoving that word up your dumb ass.
Does your dumb a$$ think of al-Qaeda as terrorists?
The 28%’ers on this thread want to talk about everything except the reasons for the Iraq refugee crisis.
Nice.
sol – the point is that as Commander in Chief the Decider Decided to invade and Decided not to commit sufficient resources IMMEDIATELY after the invasion to provide security. Now you want to blame the commanders on the ground for his Decisions.
If Bush had made the right moves and the failures were strictly with the carrying out of his orders you would be correct. However, Decider Decided to under-staff the occupation; now his surge is far too late.
You astoundingly find a way to blame everyong but the Decider for the Decisions. Your BushBot bias has so blinded you to reality that you even blame Hillary for the Decider’s Decisions as though she somehow forced him to make those Decisions.
By the way, you seem to have failed to notice that I pointed out that Hillary was WRONG to trust the Decider to make decent Decisions in the first place. That was DEFINITELY a big mistake on her part.
al-Qaida is a name with which anyone can tag another { if it suits whatever your agenda happens to be }.
Bush having unconditional support for Israel has created a separate war of propaganda and disinformation.
I never blamed Hillary, she was the biggest player for the left and a war supporter. That is all I have said. So if you blame one for the war, you have to blame all involved.
You may feel she was wrong, then by proxy, all that voted FOR the war were wrong. So be it. But you still pin the whole thing on one person.
There were mistakes made across the board. We should have had a better contingency plan for the aftermath. The war was planned and executed beautifully. We won the war. It is the aftermath that is the problem. Sectarian violence and al-Qaeda everywhere killing each other and our troops. Yeah it is a $hit storm.
Check out some of the MILBLOGS. These are from the people who are/were there. No spin, no media fighting for ratings, just the truth from those that know.
Pointing your finger at one person does nothing. If you want my opinion, 9/11 was a direct result of inaction after the first WTC bombing. I understand that there was more than one player involved, so I don’t just point my finger and say it was Clinton’s fault.
al-Qaida is a name with which anyone can tag another { if it suits whatever your agenda happens to be }.Bush having unconditional support for Israel has created a separate war of propaganda and disinformation.Posted by: Ed Friedemann | May 16, 2007 at 12:34 PM
Is that why al-Qaeda has named leaders? Because it is just some label to be placed at anyone’s discretion? Seems to me if they have a chain of command, then they are quite real.
I don’t support Israel, so I won’t fight you on that topic.
Did Congress pass a law declaring war on Iraq?
ANS: No.
Did Congress pass a law giving the President to wage war in Iraq if he deemed it necessary?
ANS: Yes.
Does Congress have any real power to effect military decisions in Iraq?
ANS: No, the war in Iraq is being conducted exclusively by the Executive branch. Congress can only indirectly effect decisions in Iraq, in contrast to the CoC who holds exclusive ability to directly effect strategy and tactics in Iraq. The only direct effect Congress has is the decision to appropriate and fund the war.
Bottom line: Bush owns every decision made in Iraq, good or bad.
Of course they’ve all sucked, every stinking last one of them from the decision to invade to the decision to “surge.” And of course now his supporters wish to offload responsibility for Bush’s piss-poor decisions to Congress because it’s politically convenient to do so.
Ask yourself this question.
If the war in Iraq were going swimmingly, which branch of the Federal government would get credit?
ANS: it ain’t Congress.
Bush owns the fiasco known as Iraq, not Congress.
“What a bunch of spineless, double talking, two-faced, cheese-eating surrender monkeys you Democrats are”Since when is expressing your opinion un-American prejudice? Looks like we’re back to attacking the person, not the viewpoint again. Did anyone ever study debate? Point, counterpoint, rebuttal. All of it can be done in a civilized manner expressing opposable thoughts and opinions. Lose the name calling, will ya? And besides, you’re reducing cheese for crying out loud to something “un-American”. WTF? Get a grip. Some posters really tick me off!
And that’s all I have to say about that. : )
“Gee – it must just suck for the querulous Dems – trying so hard to make everyone believe the Iraqis detest Americans – when just the opposite is true.” – GSheridan
Yeah, they just LOVE US over there! Perhaps that’s why a majority of their parliament signed a petition demanding timetables for the withdrawal of US and coalition forces from their country earlier this month.
“Could it be that it’s the libbies that really hate America?”
Sad. Expected, but sad.
Republican–
Since you were stationed in Turkey, why don’t you tell us how the Kurds are doing there . . .
Or maybe we should invade Turkey to free the Kurds too?
Congress voted to go to war. Congress supported going to war. There were some folks that got some camera time and said exactly that. Since some here are offended by seeing Liberal’s names posted, I’ll refrain.
Now, when the war started and we kicked some major ass, wasn’t everyone patting themselves on the back? It wasn’t until after we won the war and started fighting for peace (and crappy plans followed) that folks started to peel back. I was for the war before I was against the war. I voted for the power to go to war but didn’t really want to go (please delete the CNN footage stating otherwise). Typical politics. Had a liberal started this, the republicans would be doing the same thing.
After you fire a bullet though, you can’t just say “Whoops, didn’t really mean it.” If you buy that crap, you’re no better than the ‘BushBots’ you love to bash.
I’m surprised that GS would join up with a bunch of “spineless America-haters” like the Mennonites.
Mennonites have a long history of taking “turn the other cheek” literally. Their religion is based on total pacifism. Many times since the 1500’s they have been forced to flee rather than serve in some country or another’s latest war.
They were brutally imprisoned and tortured here during WWI for their non-resistance stance. A particular favorite was forcing them to stand at tip-toe while handcuffed to a high rail. They had the choice of the enduring the excruciating pain of standing on tip-toe hour after hour or the excruciating pain of hanging by their bloody wrists.
GS, you should have taken your opportunity at Greensburg to point out how they love Al Qaeda and hate America . . .
“”What a bunch of spineless, double talking, two-faced, cheese-eating surrender monkeys you Democrats are”
So I guess that is republic’s addition to the topic? Heheheh.
“What part of your post adds to the topic?” he said.
Hypocrisy, thy name is republic…
I’m not saying Congress wouldn’t have tried to claim credit had Iraq gone anything even slightly above “ok.” Sure, they’d have tried to claim credit.
Wouldn’t have been theirs to claim, though, now would it?
SolDevVB, please name the act of Congress which declared war on Iraq.
If you can’t (and you can’t), then give it up, dude. Bush owns Iraq, and you know it (or at your age should).
Heheheheh. Well, when all else fails, GS can always say “libbies” hate america.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
“If you can’t (and you can’t), then give it up, dude. Bush owns Iraq, and you know it (or at your age should).
Posted by: Pedant | May 16, 2007 at 01:03 PM
Really solly. You’ve been offered an opportunity to save face here on your nonsense of blaming everyone but the decider. Of course, you could continue saying up is down and black is white, but…
I suggest you accept the offer.
They were brutally imprisoned and tortured here during WWI for their non-resistance stance. A particular favorite was forcing them to stand at tip-toe while handcuffed to a high rail. They had the choice of the enduring the excruciating pain of standing on tip-toe hour after hour or the excruciating pain of hanging by their bloody wrists.
GS, you should have taken your opportunity at Greensburg to point out how they love Al Qaeda and hate America . . .
Posted by: CapnAmerica | May 16, 2007 at 01:00 PM
Could you please post a reference to this?
Pedant,The president can not sustain a war without a vote from congress. I hope your civics knowledge is at least up to that point.
In the same breath, Congress has the power to revoke that power. Why haven’t they done so?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector
This Wikipedia entry shows a photo of John T. Neufeld (a Mennonite name) who was sentenced to 15 years hard labor at Leavenworth, KS.
About 2000 absolute conscientious objectors refused to cooperate in any way with the military.[7] These men were imprisoned in military facilities such as Fort Lewis (Washington), Alcatraz Island (California) and Fort Leavenworth (Kansas). The government failed to take into account that some conscientious objectors viewed any cooperation with the military as contributing to the war effort. Their refusal to put on a uniform or cooperate in any way caused difficulties for both the government and the COs. The mistreatment[8] received by these absolute COs included short rations, solitary confinement and physical abuse so severe as to cause the deaths of two Hutterite draftees.[9]
Hutterites are a branch of the same Anabaptist (re-baptiser) movementthat sprang up in the wake of Luther and Calvin in Germany and Switzerland, others being Mennonites, Amish, and Church of the Brethern.
Got to go earn some cheddar. Y’all be good.
“Is that why al-Qaeda has named leaders? Because it is just some label to be placed at anyone’s discretion? Seems to me if they have a chain of command, then they are quite real.”
Those who claim to know the chain of command of al-Qaida got that information from whom?
The same people who trick you into believing what they want you to think?
Be careful, there’s a hook in that bait.
Capn-
thanks for the post. Having grown up in the middle of a mennonite area, and them being quite vocal about their pacifism during the Viet Nam war, it is interesting that I never heard about this. I applauded those who were COs back then, as I do now. I applauded those who willingly served in alternate forms, and those who chose to go to jail for refusing to sign up for the draft. I think those who did alternative service had the better idea, but that was and is my opinion.
Ya okay hypocrite WichiWoman. When you start calling your Liberal butt buddies on their rhetoric, I’ll calm mine down. Capn American even mocks my disabled Veteran status as a leech of society so he can make talking points and generally get a pat on the head from his fellow vomiters.
ksformgull likes to make meaningless remarks that say nothing and mean little other than what she thinks might bother those that oppose her views. She’s so fond of the term spittle, that I think it must be part of her daily sexual encounters with her farm animals.
“In the same breath, Congress has the power to revoke that power. Why haven’t they done so?
Posted by: SolDevVB | May 16, 2007 at 01:08 PM
Now THAT’s a damn good question!Could it be that they all serve the same master? The military industrial complex.
Meet the new boss same as the old boss.
lj, I have a really funny story about that. I was doing the Kansas Explorer thing one day with one of my friends who was raised in the Mennonite church. We stopped to see an old church and the attached cemetary, in Harvy county I think, but I’m not sure now.
Anyway, we wandered the cemetary noting interesting things, and then we noticed this marker, off by itself in a corner. And it looked like it had all the service emblems on it. We looked at each other and wondered, ???????!
So we went to investigate ’cause my friend said SURELY there wasnt a bunch of Mennonite names of the war dead in that cemetary.
Heheheheh. She was right. When we got there, it was a HUGE military memorial marker with all the service symbols.
And one name. From the Viet Nam era. That’s all.
It was kinda funny and kinda sad all at the same time. It struck me that some son of that church had either obeyed the draft or volunteered, and then wanted to be buried in the church cemetary.
And his family wanted to honor his service in the face of no cultural support. I think it captures perfectly the American character and our dilema with war.
No matter what if any church you attend. We are eternally conflicted by war.
OMG, MORE over the top bad Hemingway. hehehehehehhe.
Would this be a further contribution to the topic by republic?
“She’s so fond of the term spittle, that I think it must be part of her daily sexual encounters with her farm animals.”
Gee, funny thing. JM used to say crude things like that too!
Aw republic, you didnt even put a smiley behind it….
Point of clarification–
I don’t “mock” Republican’s self-proclaimed disability nor do I call him a “leech.”
I DO call him a hypocrite for availing himself of government help while ridiculing OTHERS who need the same kind of government aid for even better reasons.
Anyone remember Republican’s many slams against “the nanny state?”
But in all fairness, Republican contradicts himself so much that it’s hard to know what he thinks when.
For instance, a week or so ago he crowed that he had medical coverage so that his drugs were cheap and ridiculed those who “didn’t plan ahead” like he did.
Later, he claimed that his insurance cost some 500 dollars a month and he had a hard time covering his costs.
He also never explained why someone with a military disability isn’t covered by the VA, even though he was asked repeatedly.
First, he is unemployable because of his disability. Then, he implies that he does have an employer and works on-line.
You can’t keep up with the changing stories. After awhile, you just have to assume that EVERYTHING the guy says is just total bullsh*t. Nothing rings true.
Hehehehehehehehheheh. (deep breath) heheheheheheheheheheheheh!
“Ya okay hypocrite WichiWoman. When you start calling your Liberal butt buddies on their rhetoric, I’ll calm mine down.”
uh, republic? When was the last time YOU called out someone on the right?
(crickets chirping)
I think it captures perfectly the American character and our dilema with war.
No matter what if any church you attend. We are eternally conflicted by war.
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | May 16, 2007 at 01:40 PM
yeah, I have to agree. I guess we should always have Strong opinions about war, it should never be taken light, but we should always be respectful of those who have an opposing opinion.
but we should always be respectful of those who have an opposing opinion.Posted by: littlejohn | May 16, 2007 at 01:44 PM
Lord knows I try, Littlejohn. It’s hard, though when I get called “anti American” and a “seditionist pig” and a “traitor.”
“It’s hard, though when I get called “anti American” and a “seditionist pig” and a “traitor.”"
Then stop doing it.
uh, republic? When was the last time YOU called out someone on the right?(crickets chirping)Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | May 16, 2007 at 01:43 PM
Because those on the right will readily admit when they are in error or misinformed. LittleJohn is an example of the poster that does this.
The majority of the posters will actually say “they don’t know” or won’t respond because they don’t know.
This is contrast to the Liberal Left who will go to great lengths to extract out of their anal orifice some diatribe on a subject of which they have no clue.
Tom-
yeah, I know. (sigh). I guess the internet allows a certain anynomity, giving people the chance to lash out in ways that they would never do personally (at least one would hope not).
Littlejohn,
One of the reasons I post here under my real name is because I have no desire to hide behind anonymity. I stand by every word I write.
Republican,
I have witnessed, several times, other conservatives on this blog chide you for some of your more heinous comments. Instead of owning your errors, you attack them, too.
I would suggest you take some of your own advice.
Thanks.
What is your last name, Tom? What is your address? Phone number?
“…other conservatives on this blog chide you for some of your more heinous comments.”
tom- now you are just making things up.
Actually the real reason Tom uses his real name is for fame and notoriety.
He loves to be the focus of those who behave and think like him and why he is the leader of his own organization that props him up as an authority figure.
It’s a power thing for Tom, nothing to do with his “reasons” not to hide his name behind anonymity.
Fleetwood,
I’ve posted my full name here more than once, and have repeatedly referred to the civil rights organization I lead.
tom- How ’bout one more time.
Yeah Tom I make some rough remarks. I could blame on the physical pain I suffer everyday, but I know Capn would take advantage of it. Watch and see if he doesn’t, he’s quite predictable about exploiting details of another persons life he “thinks” he knows. If Capn doesn’t know it, he will just make it up and write it as some sort of twisted fact.
How is your use of “ass tampon” working out for you Tom?
Does that boost your credibility Tom?
Well, I don;t use my real name because I have an internet business, and don;t want vindictive retaliation for something I might say. There are plenty of assholes on the net. I don;t mean as in not doing business with, but by electronically attacking my website. I do use a real and live email, which I try and check regularly. The best I will do.
Fleettwood,
My name is Thomas Witt. I’m state chair of Kansas Equality Coalition. Disclaimer: Unless otherwise indicated, anything I post on these blog threads are my own views, and not those of KEC, its chapters, or its members.
Your turn. Be honest.
Capn, before you cast aspersions upon all Mennonites, you need to research their history a little better.
They DO teach peace and will not war – but many were drafted and served as medics, which put them right on the front lines. Unlike others – they were unarmed. They also served in medical facilities here at home.
Don’t go around trashing them as if they sold out their country – they didn’t. Many of them served, and a higher proportion of them died for that service since they didn’t carry a gun.
You know another interesting thing about them? They don’t join in trashing our leaders.
In fact, many in Greensburg were happy that GWB visited. They considered it an honor.
“Your turn. Be honest.”
My real name is Dick Hertz.
Tom – what the hell?
We don’t need to know that. You don’t need to share it.
Good Lord, you’re going down the same stupid path farmie did.
When will you guys learn that it is NOT smart to do that kind of thing?
BTW – no one, and I mean NO ONE on this forum has written as much obscene vulgarity as farmie has.
Republican is so mild in comparison that he’s almost a Boy Scout.
Republican,
Your 2:58 post says absolutely nothing about my character or motivations. It says worlds about yours.
Nice try at a smear-job, though.
I’m proud of the work KEC does, and I’m grateful to be able to be a part of it. But a “power thing?” Please. I have no “power,” except that of persuasion. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get people as diverse as gay and lesbian Kansans to agree on anything?
Tell us what you do for your community. I’m enjoying this sharing time.
“How is your use of “ass tampon” working out for you Tom?”
Is tom the one who uses that term?
“Republican is so mild in comparison that he’s almost a Boy Scout.”
Jeez, I was in the Boy Scouts a hundred years ago and none of them acted or talked like Republican.
I guess it made a difference which troop you were in.
That’s a really icky term.
Very rude.
Fleettwood,
I’m astounded by your courage and honesty. Amazed. Blown away. In total awe.
GSheridan,
I’ve posted it before; anyone who pays attention has seen it. I gave up fearing crazies many years ago. After being beaten and stabbed in the face for nothing more than being gay, I had two choices: Hide in my house and never venture out again, or live as honestly as possible.
“Jeez, I was in the Boy Scouts a hundred years ago and none of them acted or talked like Republican.”——–
Hey – nobody talked like that a hundred years ago.
:)
Fleettwood,
I’ve called you an “asstampon” on three occasions:
1. When you called me a “prancing, mincing nancy-boy”2. When you called me a “seditionist pig”3. When you called me a “pussy.”
When you’re not using vulgar and degrading names, I call you Fleettwood.
GSheridan: Yep. But, see above.
Once again (8:21 AM) Republican does baseless character assassinations on the almost 200 U.S.A. scientists who wrote the WG1 report. http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/wg1-report.html
He attacks the scientists at NASA, NOAA, NCAR, Scripps, Lawrence Livermore Lab, MIT, other universities across the U.S., etc..And he attacks 100’s of other scientists worldwide.
What is Republican’s proof(sic) that their science, and decades of research is flawed? In 1988, the U.N. and WMO formed a group, that every few years compiles the peer-reviewed climate research done worldwide into reports.
And a rational person would quickly conclude the scientists reports are NOT “Alarmist”.In fact, government bureaucrats weaken, and water down their science.
‘Political Corruption of the IPCC Report?Changes in the Final Text of the “Summary for Policy Makers” ‘http://www.meridian.org.uk/Resources/Global%20Dynamics/IPCC/index.htm
Tom – you were beaten and stabbed?
That’s horrible. I hope the guys who did it were apprehended and punished.
No one here advocates violence – on the contrary, we all support strong laws and enforcement of them.
cosmos – we are having a good old knock-down drag-out discussion here about vulgarity.
Why are you trying to discuss Science?
Get with the program. Start calling names!
I hope the guys who did it were apprehended and punished.Posted by: GSheridan | May 16, 2007 at 03:33 PM
Nope.
tom- I don’t think I called you those names. I think I was refering to the democrat party in general, unless you are those things, then it wouldn’t be name calling, would it?
“Why are you trying to discuss Science?”
Cosmo is a one-trick, boring pony.
Fleettwood,
You were responding to posts I made about positions I hold. If this is your way of backing off the vulgarities, I’ll accept it for what it is and move on :)
I know you are but what am I?
Why not, Tom? Did you not know who they were?
Could you not give a description?
Guys like that are cowards – truly.
Some folks may not like homosexuality – but they don’t go around hurting others.
If they DO harm someone – they are nothing but criminals. That is no way to handle disputes – or disagreements.
I’m sorry you went through that.
btw tom, did you ever read my response to you on that reminder post of a couple of days ago?
GSheridan,
“Get with the program. Start calling names!”
No thanks. I’ll leave that to you, Republican, fleettwood (aka Dick Hertz), et al..
“fleettwood (aka Dick Hertz),”
I’m tired of that name. I will be Harry Balzach.
Fleet – you are so naughty.
But funny.
did you ever read my response to you Posted by: GSheridan | May 16, 2007 at 03:46 PM
GSheridan,
No, where did you post it? It’s not on the Hate Crimes thread
Tom, it’s on the Open thread day before yesterday – where you posted the reminder to me.
Good grief, we got repube going ballistic, with rants bordering on total lunacy, fleetfeet changing his name, and gs saying things like, “Gee – it must just suck for the querulous Dems – trying so hard to make everyone believe the Iraqis detest Americans – when just the opposite is true.
Could it be that it’s the libbies that really hate America?”
Damn, the Reich-wing is out in full force, powdering their nose with left-over rushisms, with a bit of coultercrap thrown in for good measure. You guys should enter a bad writing contest: http://www.bulwer-lytton.com/You guys would win hands down.
“fleetfeet changing his name,”
I changed it to Stu Padasso, but I was open about it.
I changed it to Stu Padasso, but I was open about it.Posted by: fleettwood | May 16, 2007 at 04:21 PM
Um….
Nope. Not gonna type it.
:X
Republican writes–”Capn conveniently forgets the long history of Airline (hijackings) and Ship attacks conducted by Muslim extremists for decades.”
Name any directed against the United States before 1993.
The Iranian nationalists took our Embassy personnel hostage in the 70’s, but that was a direct result of US support for the overthrown Shah.
There were some Palestinian hijackings against Israelis (Munich Olympics, Entebbe Airport) but there was no systematic terrorism against America until we planted troops in Arabia and left them after promising not to leave them there.
Look at the innocent WSClark – the poster that has written more GD’s, F-words, M-F variation, fecal freferences than anyone else on the entire blog. Usually after a long day of drinkingor him in the wee hours of the morning.
Hey, Repub, dude . . . still waiting on that list of all the Islamic terrorism against America over many decades . . .
GSheridan–
Nice spin, Sweetcheeks.
You’re telling me that Holderman Mennonites serve as medics?
That Amish work in hospitals?
Obviously, I wasn’t “trashing” them. What any sentient being could see–and that apparently excludes YOU–was pointing out the hypocrisy of you working cheek-by-jowl with these total pacifists and having no problem with it.
These are people who WILL NOT FIGHT even when their own lives depend upon it, let alone their country’s.
But you don’t have a problem with THEM, the people who oppose all war whenever . . . it’s just us people who oppose THIS war that are the “America-hating, terrorist-loving surrender monkeys.”
Ah, okay, got it.
“Look at the innocent WSClark”
And this comment comes from a guy that used an ethnic slur with his very first comment directed at me.
Oh, well……………
Same stuff, different day, same RepublKhan.
Yup, WSC.
He’s having a hard time coming up with anything specific to back up his claim about the US as a target of Islamic terrorism “for decades.”
I think the “wound management” he keeps talking about is treatment for his repeatedly kicked ass . . .
Unfortunately, Capn’, many of the Neocon-types have difficulty distinguishing between the US and Israel.
They also have a huge difficulty with the concept of Palestinian “terrorists” and the fundamentalist al Qaeda-types.
Of course, the Neocons did not have a clue that there was a significant difference between Sunni’s and Shi’ites.
Perhaps if we had a little time trying to understand the Middle East before we went off half-cocked, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
“fecal freferences than anyone else on the entire blog. Usually after a long day of drinkingor him in the wee hours of the morning.”
At least one knows what ws is writing.
“freferences”? . . .”drinkingor”?
I’m thinking repube is sneaking a sip or six himself.
As I said earlier, the Reich-wing should write a story for a bad writing site. You’d win hands down.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!
“These are people who WILL NOT FIGHT even when their own lives depend upon it, let alone their country’s.
But you don’t have a problem with THEM, the people who oppose all war whenever . . . it’s just us people who oppose THIS war that are the “America-hating, terrorist-loving surrender monkeys.”
Ah, okay, got it.”————————-
No, Capn – you’re not even close to ‘getting it.’
We’re talking about service to this country in war time and in peace time.
You tried to make it sound as though these good people politically opposed the war – as you do. But that is a blatant untruth.
When called on to serve – they served. And they died for this country. They just didn’t kill to accomplish that.
Now, they do as they always do – they serve to help others.
I may not have the same religious convictions they do – but they are friends – and they care about those in need.
It would be a cold day in hell before any of them called our President a derogatory name.
You, on the other hand, actually TRY to undermine the security of this country.
Don’t flatter yourself that you are anywhere near their league. You’re not.
GSheridan–
I don’t know what you were doing with those folks, but it wasn’t talking about their beliefs.
You know those Christian Peacemaker Teams? The ones that you and your conservative buddies ridicule and laugh about when they get killed in Iraq?
The Mennonite Church USA sponsors them.
From its semimonthly magazine:
“The group is organized by Christian Peacemaker Teams (CPT), a faith-based initiative supported by Mennonites, Brethren, Quakers and several Christian peace groups. Since 1993, CPT has placed violence-reduction teams in conflict settings in the Middle East, Haiti, Latin America, Europe and North America. CPT has maintained a full-time peace presence in the city of Hebron since June, 1995 and in the village of At-Tuwani in the South Hebron Hills since September 2004.”
http://www.themennonite.org/public_press_releases/Local_resident_joins_peace_mission_to_IsraelPalestine
A typical Mennonite position to war and violence can be seen in this article:
2007-02-20 issue:The myth of justified violence
by Dennis Byler
For as far back as there are written records of civilization, people have been fed the myth of “justified violence” from earliest childhood. The classic presentation of this myth is the story of the reluctant hero who resists his sacred duty, established by the gods, to defend the defenseless and protect the weak. In this tale, the unmitigated evil and villainy of those who do not respect life eventually compels the hero to come to his senses, avenge innocent victims and slay the evildoers. And at that point the gods intervene to right every wrong and bring forth a new age of peace and prosperity.
. . . .
One of the functions of religion has always been its usefulness for making this most unnatural (actually bizarre) behavior of warfare seem necessary and unavoidable. For these purposes, I include as “religion” more recent, superficially secular, phenomena such as nationalism, fascism, communism and many other ideologies. These substitute some abstraction other than gods, yet they are religious in the power of the loyalty they inspire, a loyalty so emotional, unquestionable, worshiped and beloved as to motivate people not only to lay down their lives but be willing to kill.
http://www.themennonite.org/issues/4-10
It’s not surprising that the Mennonites you interacted with did not say disparaging things about the President. That’s because they see the government of the United States like everything of this world as “fallen” and “sinful.”
Their focus of interaction is their community, not their nation.
This recent article from the same publication sums it up:
“The radical calling view [of pacifism] is considerably different in emphasis and sees Christ’s way of peace as so radical that most people will see it as foolishness. Anabaptists were among the first to recognize that true faith could not survive long when intertwined with national politics.”
http://www.themennonite.org/issues/25-9/articles/Two_routes_to_a_pacifist_position_
The Mennonites you interacted with don’t say disparging things about the President because they couldn’t CARE LESS about the President or any other high government official.
They just want to be left alone by the government . . . and they’re not particularly picky about which government it is, either.
They went where ever the government offered to leave them alone, specifically not to force them to fight.
You should ask your Mennonite “friends” whether the United States should have invaded Iraq.
They will say one of two things–
if they’re Holderman or traditional Mennonite or Amish they’ll say that war is always wrong and that the war in Iraq, being a war, is wrong.
if they’re Mennonite-Brethern or some of these weird amalgamations of fundy post-millenialism (”end time”) Mennonites, they’re likely to say that wars come and go and it’s the right of the government, as God’s political tool on Earth flawed though it is, to make war.
So, they can see war as a necessary evil and even support a war as long as THEY DON’T FIGHT in it.
This is not the traditional Anabaptist view, but you do hear it, especially out here where you have a stronger “cowboy culture” than back East in Ind, Ohio, and Penn.
I respect the right of others to post pseudonyms, but I have to say…
Posting my real name actually STOPPED the harassment I was getting off blog.
I havent had one bit of harassment since then.
Funny thing, no? And when Tom and I are NOT ashamed of who we are, in any way, typical JM reaction is that we are grabbing power.
Heheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh! (deep breath)hehehehehehehehehehehehheheheheheh!
Stop it JM, yer killin’ me with laughter.
And the two biggest flamethrowers on the blog warn us about the dangers of posting our real names?
I guess because we know how GS and repube love to harm folks off blog, or at least make those threats… we know where they get their fear.
They fear being treated the way THEY treat other posters off the blog.
heheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh!
You guys are a laugh a minute.
Oh, and btw, Thomas Witt is one of the most well respected political figures in the state. He is known for his calm demeanor, his even handed leadership, his respect in the face of disrespect, and his ability to work with and pull together diverse groups to reach a mutually desired goal.
He is truely a uniter, not a divider. He is the voice of reason when some of us want to take it to the streets.
But most of all, he has integrity. When he says he will do something, he does it. When he gives his word, you cant take it to the bank. In the face of oppression and defeat, his “never say quit” attitude has served as an inspiration to people of all cultures all across the state.
Working with the gay community and trying to organize them is like hearding cats. Working with the legislature and the governor’s office is like teaching a retarded child to wipe his ass. Working with the media in Kansas is like jumping into a rattler pen and trying to handle the snakes.
Yet Tom does all that well, and still manages to have a thriving marriage and raise a daughter that we would all be proud to call ours.
Oh, and one more thing? Tom is not too proud or bull headed to admit he might be wrong and make an appropriate change.
After all, he did leave the republican party!
Heheheheheheheheh. Someday, if I grow up, I want to be just like TOM!
Apologies Tom. I didnt mention your modesty and your ability to make sure others get the credit for things you do.
I know that post will make you turn red, but dude, you are way too modest. We’ve been in the trenches together in some tough times.
It is long past the time you should have received appropriate praise. Goddess knows you get plenty of the other. So in case others havent said it, I’m glad I did.
Even though you will likely give me hell for it :)!
Farmgrrl,
No one can live up to all the nice things you said about me. I don’t know whether to thank you or curse you.
“Even though you will likely give me hell for it :)!”
I know where you live. ;)