A USA Today article quoted Kansas State University professor Richard Goe as being among the first to dare suggest the politically incorrect: that there might be reasons Greensburg shouldn’t be rebuilt.
Goe, who studies rural development, pointed out that Greensburg could more easily consolidate with neighboring towns, which have ample roads, utilities and schools. On paper, at least, that might make more fiscal sense than rebuilding.
“The money that’s reinvested in rebuilding it, is it going to provide any economic return?” Goe asked. “Probably not.”
The article also pointed out the reality that some of the town’s many elderly residents probably will leave. A rebuilt Greensburg likely will have younger and fewer residents.
Still, many Greensburg residents say they’re committed to maintaining family and community ties, which often go back generations. Those might be more powerful reasons to stay than any academic ones.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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27 Comments
I can think of a few reasons to wait, as far as rebuilding is concerned.
For one, property taxes are calculated based on the value as of January 1st.
What if only 25% of the town is rebuilt by that date?
Those aggressive “rebuilders” will bear 100% of the property tax burden for the City of Greensburg.
This will be even worse for commercial realestate, which is assessed at an even higher rate than residential property. Utility property will get hammered the worst.
This will be a perplexing problem for planners.
Who will go back without some retail and business activity comming back first?
What business can afford to pay the property tax of an entire town?
This is a horrible chicken and egg dilemma. You cant get the people without services, you cant get the services without people, and nobody can afford to be the only person in town to rebuild as of January 1st!
(Yes, raw land has value, but that is very small compared to improvements.)
Another issue:
Not everyone has “replacement value” propety insurance.
Government programs might not help everyone who finds out, too late, that their homeowner’s insurance was not adequate.
Also, If you had an insurace check for, say $100,000.00 and you were 80 years old, unsure that the town would come back, unsure that medical services or even a grocery story would be available, would you “invest” that $100,000.00 into new construction?
The risks are huge. You might spend your settlement on a great new house, and then find out you don’t really like the “new” Greensburg very much.
If most of your neighbors feel the same way, what will the value of your new home be, in a couple of years?
My solution?
Get a promise from Dillons, first, that they intend to rebuild and stay for at least another 10 years. That will start a chain reaction among the other businesses.
Also, some of the disaster aid should be used to help reduce the City property tax needs over the next 18 months, so that high property tax rates dont discourage early rebuilding.
Y’all are forgetting about the New Orleans precedent set after Katrina. $100 billion and over $200,000 per man, woman, and child is being taken from taxpayers by the Federal government to rebuild New Orleans. Why shouldn’t Greensburg get the same treatment? Is there not equal protection under the law? Are the people of Greensburg not as worthy as the people of New Orleans? Why not?
A better argument can be made for rebuilding Greensburg than New Orleans. Most of Greensburg is not in a flood plain, and all of it is above sea level. New Orleans is actually below sea level and subject to yearly flooding from nearly all directions from The Mississippi and the Gulf of Mexico. Greensburg may get another tornado strike, but then again, New Orleans has it’s share of tornados too.
If you think taxpayers can’t afford to rebuild Greensburg, then we can’t afford to rebuild New Orleans. And when LA or San Francisco go up in flames after the next big Earthquake, how in the H can the taxpayers afford to rebuild those huge cities?
I dunno, but the group we went with to Greensburg (Mennonites) was told to leave the foundations intact for most homes as the owners planned to rebuild.
That could just be the standard practice, however.
I can only speak specifically to the people I know – and so far, they are going to rebuild.
However, the ones I know – and know of – are Holderman Mennonite who farm the land in that area. Greensburg is/was a large Holderman population. Many of these folks didn’t have insurance, but the church community is going to take care of the rebuilding process.
I should know more later today, at least about that certain group, so I’ll let you know then.
There is one big difference in that New Orleans is an important port city. Greensburg is important to the folks that live there but in the scope of things, it is less important to the country and Kansas which has a few hundred small towns. I agree that probably fewer than 50% of the population will return. It is much easier to take the check and go buy a house in an already established community like Pratt which has the services people need instead of going through the hardship of rebuilding where you are. Should my house and town here in Georgia get destroyed, I would probably just move down the road to Douglasville rather than tough it out here.
Get things cleaned up and then do some serious evaluations on what should be done. Greensburg has always been a nice little town and it does attract some tourism. Don’t make emotional decisions.
This could be an opportunity to build a larger community by giving consideration to the combining of a community or two out that way.
Paul raises good points. For a number of reasons it just makes sense to take a step back, take a deep breath, and think seriously before rebuilding. I said similar things after Katrina and the Indian Ocean tsunami.
This is not in any way a slam at Greensburg. Rather it simply comes into planning.
Let’s consider a trivial example: suppose they have been needing to widen a road. Might this be the perfect time to do so? BEFORE that building in the way gets rebuilt?
I do suspect that Greensburg will shrink – a little. Nowhere near as much as New Orleans. I also suspect that new people will move into Greensburg. One dynamic that has been going on for some time in kansas and elsewhere is the depopulation of rural and small-town areas. In effect, there exists overcapacity for housing and businesses in small Kansas municipalities. So, something like what kev said makes sense.
The sad thing to me is that much of what made Greenburg what it was is probably gone forever. The big stately trees and old buildings. I heard a story about Xenia Ohio that was rebuilt but smaller after a tornado. All of its character is gone.
Will Greensburg suffer the same fate? I hope not. And, in this case, I also think not.
A long long time ago people made much the same speculations about Udall. But, Udall rebuilt. Greensburg will too. Granted, the character (in whatever manner we define that word) of the town will be different. The popualation will have some shifts and fluxuations too but that won’t change the fact that Greensburg is home to a lot of people and it’s difficult to put a price or value on that. The word home is like the word character in that it is difficult to define. But the two words are also similar because each represents strong concepts. Dorothy was right. There’s no place like home and Greensburg will be back whether the experts think it’s practical or not.
I think it’s awful that some people think the town should not rebuild just because they don’t see the value in small town living.
Some of those people have lived there their entire lives. It is a community spirit, that every community has. Why place value like that on one place and not another? Who SAYS living in the other places is more valuable?
There is no place like home…and that’s where your heart is. Even if it’s in bits and pieces.
Imagine if someone told you not to rebuild your home or town if something happened to it.
p-mom – I don’t see anyone ‘telling’ them not to rebuild. Just speculating whether all will choose to do so. I had already seen reports of some people saying they will relocate elsewhere with extended family in other cities.
In the case on New orleans, on the other hand, there has been serious consideration of at least strongly advising against rebuilding – in areas below sea level. That, of course, is a very differetn situation.
I think one thing that makes the situation dicey is the question of whether businesses will rebuild. If they don’t then it increases the likelihood of residents also not doing so.
I think the real advice here has been just to step back and consider all options.
Having been raised in NW Kansas where weather played a big part in the economic base, I can see many sound reasons to believe that Greensburg, if it re-builds may not achieve what it lost. But sound reasoning does not take into account will/drive/spirit of people who have made it their home. I am sure there will be factions that want it to be rebuilt exactly like it was and those who are progressive and see this as an opportunity to start fresh. Personally I hope there is a fresh start and that there are businesses and young people who are able to stay and build on the history that was there. My thoughts are with the people to have the courage to move forward.
Okay, my latest update. I’m sure there are other sources that may have different news – but this is what I found out this morning.
Some of the rebuilding is already beginning. There were a number of smaller-type homes that are being rebuilt first – those that were damaged the least first, and in some cases, families that were small, or just a young married couple, have allowed their small homes to house a larger family. Then the bigger homes will be repaired and rebuilt next.
Food and some other donated items are now being sent on to Wichita because there is an over abundance.
The Church still fed 820 people last Sunday, but that number is now dwindling.
The amount of donated items far exceed the need – except for housing.
The trailers are not there yet, but expected soon.
Some of the folks are saying that had each person in the tornado been given $8,000 it would have equaled what it took for GWB to visit. I dunno if that is correct- just the rumor.
The town had a large number of older residents – retirees. At last count – most of them said they were going to rebuild.
The grain elevators that everyone noticed were still standing in the photos? Turns out they will have to be razed – they are full of tiny cracks.
All for now.
Oh yeah, almost 500 church kids were used on the weekend to walk the fields around Greensburg, picking up trash and any items. Plowing will begin soon.
One man that worked in the clean up yesterday said he saw a LOT of really good items being thrown away by the owners.
They don’t have any place to store them. Dressers, furniture – good stuff is being loaded in the trash trucks because the owners have no way to haul them – and no place to take them.
Temp storage units would come in handy right about now.
Food for thought: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensburg,_Kansas
The population of Greensburg fell almost 10% from 2000 to 2007. 25% of the population is over the age of 65, almost 25% of the population is under the age of 18 (meaning they will likely go where their parents go, should they leave).
For every 2-3 families that leave (assuming a 5-6 person families), that’s an additional 1% of the population gone in a town that has already been losing 1.42% per year over the last 7 years.
Many of the people did not have insurance. Most of the businesses that were employing people locally are completely destroyed. With no other options in town for employment, how long before these people need to get jobs to feed their families?
I’m not for or against the rebuilding…I would HOPE that people take a step back and think clearly, and rationally rather than emotionally.
Dubyahttp://www.wichitavoice.com
How about the baby boom retirement?All that talk of baby boomers being the largest group to retire, you would think that the property values in Greensburg would be a bargain for those seeking a quieter setting to settle into.For a few years now the real estate market has been filling up with advertisement of getting people from the big cities to buy property in small towns.With the media coverage of Greensburg, I am sure it will draw the attention of those that want to move to small towns.
“But sound reasoning does not take into account will/drive/spirit of people who have made it their home.”
Susan, that is true in some regards. But with all due respect…
If that “will/drive/spirit” mattered in the real world of economics and kansas politics…
Northwest Kansas would not have been losing population for the last four decades. I’ve seen the “will/drive/spirit” of folks out here. It is real indeed.
And still the towns die and the counties bleed population.
Perhaps one of the reasons is that we also believe our own mythology and romance stories, and we expect others to believe them too.
As the great Meatloaf says “there aint no Coup de Ville hiding in the bottom of the Cracker Jack box”.
So while I applaud your sentiment and the compassion and hope it conveys, in the cold hard world, the rest of Kansas has already written off the west.
And they are already dividing up the spoils, including water.
“All that talk of baby boomers being the largest group to retire, you would think that the property values in Greensburg would be a bargain for those seeking a quieter setting to settle into.”
And wiseman illustrates yet ANOTHER myth of western Kansas and rural towns in general.
The ONLY thing cheaper about living here is real estate. Everything, including fuel and food, are MORE expensive than in the city. And the wages are less.
Now if you are retiring on a fixed income, that’s great. You get your dole everymonth and housing will take very little of it. But you have to consider services available as you age, and access to good medical care and hospitals.
And transportation to those things if you cant get them locally. Like pharmacies and grocery stores.
Small towns cant “out low cost” anyone on a real cost/benefit analysis.
And just in case you think I’m kidding? Check out the progress of those “free land” communities that would give free land to those willing to build a house and stay a certain length of time.
Dont just listen to the chamber of commerce types who hyped the programs. Most of them never got ANY takers, some got one or two, and the ones that did take up the offer?
Very few stayed. Or actually built, and the “free land” went back to the offering community.
If low cost and the myth of cheap real estate and “boomers fleeing the city” were true…
…I’d be living in Spain from the proceeds of selling my land!
Oh, and the mythology of baby boomers fleeing the cities? The young parents fleeing the cities?
heheheheh. When they “flee” it is usually to the suburbs. Or what is known as an “edge city”.
They want the small town quiet, no traffic, personal touch, but they also want to be close to the city for culture, entertainment, medical care, transportation, shopping, etc.
So… they move to a small town NEAR what they call a city.
And Wichita? You need to remember that many of these “fleeing boomers” regard your town as a “small rural town” not a city.
Irony of ironies. It is communities like Wichita and Tulsa that benefit most from the big city refugees. Certainly not the WaKeeneys of the world.
Of course, that’s a whole nother story…
Is there still “freedom” in Greensburg to rebuild home without basements?
Wouldn’t be prudent to individuals safety. Shouldn’t the community set residential codes for everyone?
Same for commercial properties. Some square feet of basement space created.
Type of basements with escape window wells. Should have a bathroom down there too.
wiseman – no, the real estate news has been about small towns giving incentives to try to attract people. Free land for example to someone who will build a house there.
As for real estate taxes – paul made a good point that with a reduced tax BASE the rates will go UP on the rest.
frm I live close to two communities who did the free land, and it worked well for them.
Maybe because it was in proximity to decent sized towns?
You’re right about the low rent/high travel/ low wages though. Small towns just do not offer high paying jobs to support their towns. Both my husband and I have to drive to maintain decent employment. If they want the town to thrive, they have to offer better wages and jobs..or rely on the bigger cities to offer them. And I don’t think Pratt has that much to offer. Perhaps Larned or Dodge.
ksfarmgrrl is 100% correct. Boomer retirees that are fleeing the large cities for a small town lifestyle are not thinking about tiny rural towns like Greensburg. Residents of the large urban areas like NY, LA, Phoenix, etc think of downsizing in cities the size of Tucson, Albuquerque and Wichita. After living several years in a metro area with millions of people a city of 400-800K seems tiny in comparison. People that live in mid size cities like Denver or Portland think of places like Las Cruces or Lawrence as their idea of a small town. It is only the residents of the small cities that consider moving to places like Greensburg and other Western Kansas towns.
Small is all a matter of perspective.
Greensburg has many pluses to support rebuilding the community:
** Center of vast wheat fields.
** Located in Kansas’ old fashioned bible belt with hard-working and honest people.
** Located on Highway 54, still the “short-cut” national highway from Chicago to Los Angelos. Highway 54 is one of the greatest non-interstate cross-country highways in America and is gradually receiving additional improvements as federal funds become available.
** Located half-way between Pratt and Dodge City, both with Wal-Mart stores, hospitals, doctors, community colleges, etc.
** Although I haven’t visited there after the tornado, I suspect the system of paved streets and underground water and sewer lines are still largely OK.
** Greensburg work force eager to go back to work and give an honest days work.
** World’s largest hand-dug well reaching down to the relatively pure water of the Ogallala aquifer … originally built to provide water for Rock Island Railroad passenger trains carrying movie stars and business people from Chicago to Los Angelos back in the 1930’s, 1940’s and 1950’s … until the airlines took over the business.
** Near the meteorite treasure fields nearer Haviland, Kansas.
** Greensburg is located only about 25 miles north of the virtually unknown Kansas Gypsum Hills. Carved milliniums ago by the Medicine River and sometimes known locally as the “red hills” … the gypsum Hills with their flat top mesas and water running canyons look for all the world like a western movie setting.
BUT I DO SUPPORT THE IDEA OF A SIX MONTH PLANNING PERIOD TO DETERMINE WHAT RESOURCES WILL BE OFFERED BY THE FEDERAL, STATE AND NON-PROFIT AGENCIES. A REDUCED POPULATION BASE WILL HAVE DIFFICULTY PAYING FOR THE NEW INFRASTRUCTURE TO REPLACE THE INFRASTRUCTURE DESTROYED BY THE TORNADO.
“How about the baby boom retirement?All that talk of baby boomers being the largest group to retire, you would think that the property values in Greensburg would be a bargain for those seeking a quieter setting to settle into.”
Most baby boomers are not thinking about Greesnberg or any other town in Kansas to retire in. Most of us are thinking Florida, Arizona and- in my case- Las Vegas. Most of us want good weather, good medical care and maybe some water close by.
If I was going to ever live in a small town in Kansas, Lawrence is the only place I would consider. If I was to live in a small town- which I could- it must be within an hour drive to a city of at least 400,000 and 4 hours to a city of 1 million or more. Lawrence qualifies and perhaps Salina does too but no place in western Kansas would.
Greensburg is a county seat. It has to be rebuilt.
Kev, have you been to Lawrence lately? When I first moved to the area it was a unique, small, college city. Now that’s all fading. Lawrence is actively striving to become Overland Park west and losing its former identity as it does. It isn’t unique any longer. Too bad too.
“frm I live close to two communities who did the free land, and it worked well for them”
Pmom, I dont know this for sure, but I think you must live near Marquette and/or Ellsworth.
Both of those programs have been abysmal failures by the standards of success THEY set for themselves. A few anticdotal “successes” but mostly it is typical chamber of commerce hype.
If you have statistics or stories that can prove me wrong, please post them. I am familiar with both communities and their programs.
And the “results” in other towns? Plainville had their free land go back to the givers because they had NO TAKERS!
Maybe that changed in the last six months, but I dont think so. It’s just like most small town “economic development” programs.
Big publicity, few results, no follow up. I’ve been in the biz since 1984. Trust me. That is how all these miracle programs work.
Including, and especially, the great Siroli robbery of the Kansas Dept. of Commerce. Four trials, few successes, over a million dollars spent to an out of state consultant.
Typical. Just like the “free land” programs. I think there is a website called freeland.com or some such thing that was used to market the program.
If you want the real scoop, talk to the folks that backed out of the program…