Kansas is one of five states to be targeted by a new coalition of Christian leaders and organization advocating a more humane policy on immigration reform, the New York Times reported. Christians for Comprehensive Immigration Reform wants Kansans to lobby their lawmakers to strengthen border controls but also give illegal immigrants ways to gain legal residency, a position similar to that held by President Bush, Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., and others (including The Eagle editorial board). The coalition includes mostly evangelical Christian leaders, such as the Rev. Joel Osteen, whose faith compels them to show compassion for the weak and the alien.
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121 Comments
Making all the illegal aliens citizens would solve the border issue. We could employ 10 percent of those former illegal aliens as border guards. At a lower wage of course. :D
We need an amnesty for the aliens here but I also would bar them from obtaining US Citizenship because they entered illegally. But I think we should give them a work permit and, if they work, learn English, pay taxes owed and stay out if trouble with the law for 5 years, we should grant them Permanent Residency which would allow them to stay and work but not make them citizens. The only exception would be citizenship through service in the armed forces. And then we need to go after the people employing illegals and severely punish them.
The problem will never be solved, except comprehensively, so the approach described here makes sense.
1) Improve border security significantly.2) Deport those who commit crimes after theyserve their sentences.3) Provide a framework for eventual citizenship for those who are working hard at jobs to support their families and staying out of trouble.4) Increase the number of people allowed in legally as guest workers for set time periods.5) Increase the number of well educated people allowed in legally as permanent residents on a citizen track to fill needs in our economy.
The idea of allowing those here illegally to remain is appalling. The humanitarian excuse just doesn’t cut it…consider that the UN has estimated there are over 2.8 BILLION people living in poverty in the world. Should this country, for ‘humanitarian reasons’ discard all immigration laws and let them all come here? After all, the poor don’t have a future in their own country, so lets let them all come here?
Can you imagine what would happen to this country? It would become a 3rd world country in no time. We could not support such an influx.
What is the difference between that ridiculous scenario and granting amnesty to the illegals already here? NOTHING, just a matter of scale.
I agree Raptor, these people who are advocating for the illegals are dead wrong! And you all have evidently been brainwashed into thinking that our economy can’t survive without them. What a crock! Do you know how many unemployed Americans there are who can do many of the jobs the illegals are doing? The fact is, much of our business community simply doesn’t want to pay a wage so that our unemployed citizens can survive, so they complain to Congress that they have to have this flow of cheap labor from 3rd world countries. Since when do they have the right to call the shots, we the people vote, our representatives are responsible to the voter, and last I checked, business can’t vote! It’s up to each person to force our reps to do the right thing, and that is to enforce the law, and take care of American citizens FIRST!!!
Somebody better tell those Christian coalition people that our politicians in Kansas can only help the immigrants if they speak English. It’s the LAW in Kansas!
Sounds like the evangelicals are just on another political search and destroy mission. Sounds like they are after Cedar Crest in the next election.
And do these so called evangelical political operatives also intend to go after the folks who employ the illegals they hate so much?
Should we look into who cleans their homes, washes their cars, watches their kids, etc? Maybe some of them have a hidden “nanny problem”?
WWJH.
Who would Jesus hate?
“WWJH.
Who would Jesus hate?”
Lemme guess…..you?
Uh, read the article. You will then realize how dumb your comments are. We know who you hate.
KSFRMGRRRRRL,Would you hate a drunk driver that killed one of your loved ones? Would you hate the person that mugged you in the street and took everything you had on you? These people are criminals, thus the moniker “ILLEGAL” alien.
It’s not a question of hate, but of following the laws. Should you be allowed to run through the streets naked screaming your love for Bush (hahahahahaha). There are things you shouldn’t do. Breaking the laws of a country are some of them.
Farmie you really have a comprehension problem don’t you?
Our economy suffers from the influx of illegals, yes I used that word, illegals. No longer political correct I know.
Our health care system, our education system and now the social security system are being destroyed by those who use the resources but don’t contribute to the solution.
We are the largest contributor to the economy of Mexico because of the large amount of money sent back each week.
Well I guess when we get our socialized medicine and we all start paying and not just the ‘rich’ people will begin to see it.
I just can’t wait for the mantra of the ‘working rich’ to become ‘me work, I don’t think so’ and then retire and sit back and let the gov take care of them for a while.
We had better be solving this problem now.
It isn’t a stretch for farmie to be advocating the acceptance of illegals.
She posted before on this board that she breaks the law, herself, by paying one of her waitresses, “under the table.”
I might gripe about my taxes – and I get pissed over them, too, but as long as it is the law – I’m going to abide by it.
I faithfully file and deposit my 941’s as required.
Sure, it costs more than if I operated illegally, but it’s the right thing to do.
Some of us have ethics.
And then – some of us are Democrats.
Would one of you assholes PLEASE post where I advocated on behalf of illegals?
I was pointing out the utter hypocrisy and vileness of the evangelicals. This little foray is even MORE ammunition for taking away their 501(c)3 tax status.
Please post my comments that supported illegal immigration.
Woof.
I think THIS little exchange is a GREAT example of the wingnut mindset. Attack first, read later.
How’s that workin’ for y’all?
Funny, not one wingnut answered the question:
“And do these so called evangelical political operatives also intend to go after the folks who employ the illegals they hate so much?”
Hee hee hee hee! Looks like I struck a wingnut nerve!
GRRRRL
Did I mistake
“WWJH.Who would Jesus hate?”
Sounded like you were propping up the illegals more than ripping the thumpers.
Heheheheeheh.HAHAHAHAH.HEEEEEEE!
If that is the best you wingnuts can do to say I support illegal immigration, I’d call that a stretch at best! heheheheheeheheh.
…and what a nice set up for this post. I love how the wingnuts want equality and civil rights… for some… but not others….
American Atheists Media Alerthttp://www.atheists.org
“OKLAHOMA OUTRAGE,” DISCRIMINATIONAGAINST ATHEISTS TOPIC OF ABC PROGRAMThis Friday, May 11, 2007 ~ Kagin, Smalkowski Family
WHAT: A special two-hour ABC Network program scheduled to air this Friday, May 11 will discuss prejudice against Atheists in American, particularly in the city of Hardesty, Oklahoma, where Nicole Smalkowski was expelled from public school on false charges when she refused to stand in a circle on the auditorium floor with the girls’ basketball team and recite the “Lord’s Prayer.”
Her father Chuck Smalkowski was falsely indicted on criminal charges, all because of prejudice against their assertion of their rights as Atheists. American Atheists participated in Chuck’s criminal trial that resulted in three “Not Guilty” verdicts by a jury. Edwin Kagin, National Legal Director for American Atheists, persuaded the jury to swear to believe an Atheist under oath over a Christian if the facts so warranted. Following the verdict, American Atheists and the Smalkowski family filed a lawsuit for civil rights violations by state actors, under color of state law, in the Federal Court of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. The Smalkowskis, Edwin Kagin, and Richard Dawkins share a nine minute segment of this program that was recorded in ABC’s studios in New York City, and on location in Hardesty and Guymon, Oklahoma. Richard Rice, a Christian, who has agreed to serve as Oklahoma local counsel in the lawsuit, was interviewed on camera in Oklahoma. The four days of filming, condensed to nine minutes, will of necessity omit many things and one or more of the persons filmed may be cut.
WHO: American Atheists members Nichole Smalkowski and Chuck Smalkowski and Edwin Kagin, National Legal Director for American Atheists.
WHEN: Friday, May 11, 2007 for two hours, starting at 9:00 pm (EDT).
WHERE: 20-20 show on ABC television, thought to be titled “Religion in America.”
MORE INFO:
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/smalko1.htm
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/smalko3.htm
http://www.atheists.org/legal/Smalkowski/Entry%20of%20Appearan...
(AMERICAN ATHEISTS is a nationwide movement that defends civil rights for Atheists; works for the total separation of church and state; and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.)
Hey kfg. READ the article. The evangelical organization is the one advocation the “more humane policy” on illegal immigrants. Quit sounding like a fool.
Nah, on second thought, carry on as usual.
heheheheheeheh. Still laughing at solly and the rest of the wingnut hee haw gang…
So solly, who would Jesus hate? Dont you all try to follow him? Would Jesus hate illegal immigration? Would he hate the immigrants?
Would he hate the wingnut haters and throw them out of the temple?
heheheheheheheheeh. Still waiting on the repost of my comments supporting illegal immigration.
Sounds like the evangelicals are just on another political search and destroy mission. Sounds like they are after Cedar Crest in the next election.
And do these so called evangelical political operatives also intend to go after the folks who employ the illegals they hate so much?
Should we look into who cleans their homes, washes their cars, watches their kids, etc? Maybe some of them have a hidden “nanny problem”?
WWJH.
Who would Jesus hate?
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | May 10, 2007 at 08:33 AM
From the article linked
“Rather, the coalition calls for bills that would push for border enforcement while improving guest worker programs and offering chances for illegal immigrants to obtain legal status, an approach similar to bills that Congress is considering.”
Why don;t i see teh linkage between what the article said, and what ksfarmgrrl posted?
I didn;t ee anything about hate. I see let’s secure the borders, but keep who we got. Guess I just missed it
“…and what a nice set up for this post. I love how the wingnuts want equality and civil rights… for some… but not others….”
Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | May 10, 2007 at 09:18 AM
So some religious fanatics do some dumb crap and now it is a republican thing. Nice labeling Farmie.
heheheheheeheh. Still laughing at solly and the rest of the wingnut hee haw gang…So solly, who would Jesus hate? Dont you all try to follow him? Would Jesus hate illegal immigration? Would he hate the immigrants?Would he hate the wingnut haters and throw them out of the temple?heheheheheheheheeh. Still waiting on the repost of my comments supporting illegal immigration.Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | May 10, 2007 at 09:21 AM
As you work on a farm as one of your businesses, just how many illegals work for you?
For trying to enforce immigration laws, that means you hate. Wow, you love the labels.
Maybe because you read as well as you type? :)
“As you work on a farm as one of your businesses, just how many illegals work for you?”
Uh solly dear, I dont have ANY illegals working for me.
How about you?
In fact, I dont have ANY employees on the farm. Just me and my shovel.
Oh, and the cats and seventy chickens. The cattle will arrive the first of June.
And you?
hee hee hee hee!!!!!
I love starting the day with a good round of laughter….
Strange questions coming from you. You state that I am an illegal alien hater, and then ask how many illegals work for me. Huh. Missed on that one Farmie.
Dairy cows or cows for beef?
…and because I have a WORKING farm, not a country estate showplace, you just assume I employ illegals?
heheheheheh
“Wow, you love the labels.”
hee hee hee hee hee!!!!!
And still no comment on sanctions for folks who EMPLOY illegals?
That was the first point I made. If I employed them, why would I be advocating tough sanctions for employers?
Wingnut logic I guess….
Umm… kfg; that sound you here is folks chuckling as you trying to spin your way out of your dumb earlier comments.
It must be uncomfortable for you to be on the same side of the issues as that evangelical organization.
GRRRRL,
Has anyone said ANYTHING about the employers? This seems to have stemmed from your immediate jump to hate. Hate that a law would be enforced.
In that same vein, if the illegals were deported to uphold the law, then the employers should be justly reprimanded.
“You state that I am an illegal alien hater”
Please repost my comment where I stated you were a hater.
Solly dear, I think you and the other wingnuts just read what you want to see, not what is really there.
You are correct, my typing is terrible. I will work on it. My reading is just fine. These people supposedly want to make the border more secure, and help the illegals become illegals. Specifically then, these are my questions to you
Your post:”evangelicals are just on another political search and destroy mission.”
My question:Who are they trying to destroy?Your post:”Sounds like they are after Cedar Crest in the next election.”My question:How so? I see nothing at all in that line?Your Post”intend to go after the folks who employ the illegals they hate so much?”My question:How does making it easier for illegals to become citizens and get guest worker status = hate and why would the go after those who employ illegals, THEY WANT THEM HERE!”Your post:”Should we look into who cleans their homes, washes their cars, watches their kids, etc? Maybe some of them have a hidden “nanny problem”?”My question:How is this relevant, they want to make it easier for those already here?Your Post:”WWJH.
Who would Jesus hate?
My question:WHo said anything about hate except for you?
Here’s my suggestion, but I’m no foreign relations expert so this could probably be taken with a grain of salt. Strengthen the border. Simplify the process to become legal since it’s apparently complicated and riddled by dishonesty. Give all illegals in the country 90 days to start the process to become legal, if they don’t then deport them.
LJ, this doesnt even make any sense.
why would the go after those who employ illegals, THEY WANT THEM HERE!”
Really? They want illegals here? No they want legal guest workers. Otherwise, this thread is moot!
My questions are about why the evangelicals DONT have a position to get tough on folks who employ illegals. Still no answer on THAT!
“”Should we look into who cleans their homes, washes their cars, watches their kids, etc? Maybe some of them have a hidden “nanny problem”?”
I think that is VERY relevant. If the leaders of this evangelical jihad have illegal service folks who work for them, you dont think THAT is relevant?
Hypocrit much?
And as far as the evangelical political agenda, I NEVER said that came from the article. It is my opinion, based on my observations.
You know, like you all wingnuts post all the time?
woof.
I don’t know what to do about the foreign nationals here already, but I do know what to do about the border.
Bring home our National Guard, our Coast Guard. Replace all the equipment that’s been damaged or destroyed overseas. Redeploy the active Guard units to the borders. After all, they’re National Guard, _not_ expeditionary forces. They’re _supposed_ to be guarding and providing for our internal security.
AFN, all good suggestions.
But why, in all that, do you not favor sanctions for the people and businesses EMPLOYING ILLEGALS?
They wouldnt be here in the first place if folks didnt hire them and give them jobs!
Why not attack the root of the problem instead of the symptoms?
OK, I finally see the republican wingnut postion here.
Illegal immigrants = bad.
People who EMPLOY the illegals = good.
Got it!
Good point KFG, actually I agree with you on that! I just forgot to type it:)
You are so full of BS, Ksfarmgrrl.Read the linked article. They are trying to make it easier for those already here to be buest workers and then citizens. How does that translate to ANYTHING you said? It doesn;t. You heard the word evangelical and went nutcase. You have exposed your hatred and bigotry. So, since you have labelled yourself as as such, I really don’t give a rats ass about what you think. And since you have labeled me a wingnut, you obviously don’t care what i think.
Actually, nothing wrong showing compassion. I guess one has to draw the line if you harbor illegal aliens. That would be the government’s job.
Some meat plants might be without employees though. :D
And just so you know, since you asked: I would put all those who knowlingly employ illegals either in jail or fine them a huge percentage of their profits. I have no use for them, or the illegals.
I don’t see how anyone could look at that Osteen guy and see anything but a big scammer. He LOOKS like a swindler. All smiley…like that Bob for that ‘male enhancement’ pill.
It says “I’m gonna take your money”…
So could someone please repost the part of my posts that are not TRUE!
The part where I lied? The part where I ADVOCATED for illegal immigration?
That’s the problem lj. You took a wingnut position here. Dont whine because you were caught.
Although a Democrat, I am in agreement with Bush and the Evangelicals on this one. This country is made of immigrants, and we should give everyone an opportunity to take part in the American Dream.Most of the illegal immigrants come to this country by undertaking great risks to their lives, and obviously they take these risks because they hope that they have a better chance at life in the US than in their countries. They are just like any one of us trying to get a better job, or a better home to improve our living conditions.I agree that these immigrants have committed a crime by coming and staying here illegally. For this, they should be made to pay a fine. At the same time, they should be allowed some sort of guest worker visa so that they can work legally and pay taxes like everyone else. If they commit any crimes while they are here, they should be dealt with just like any other criminal.We should also enforce stricter border security not only to mitigate illegal immigration, but also to stop terrorists from crossing into the country.We don’t have to open up all our doors so that everyone can come to this country and get a free ride. Most illegal aliens in this country are not getting free rides. They work jobs that you and I don’t want to do, are underpaid, and have no benefits such as health insurance. Yet, the lives they lead here are better than what they have left behind.If we come up with a fair approach to eventually provide a path to citizenship for these people, we will only be doing what our forefathers have done for generations past. This is what makes this the greatest and most compassionate country in the world.
Uh, Political Mom
I thought liberals preached not to judge someone on their looks :).I personally don’t like the guy. I have heard him preach, many years ago. And BOb, the first coouple of commercials were good, but man did it get old
Uh, Political Mom
I thought liberals preached not to judge someone on their looks :).I personally don’t like the guy. I have heard him preach, many years ago.
Oh, and as to the evangelical wingnut lust for Cedar Crest…
Funny they are targeting Kansas.
Why not target boarder states, or states with larger numbers of illegal immigrants?
Maybe because the ks governor’s seat will be open in three years?
And the boarder states?
Woof. You dont need to be a political genius to see THAT coming…
Ksfarmgrrl-
i never said you advocated for illegal immigration. I never sasid you lied. You got caught in your own bigotry. Cut the crap
Uh, SS…
“Most illegal aliens in this country are not getting free rides. They work jobs that you and I don’t want to do”
So you agree, SS, that it is the “jobs” that make that better life possible for ILLEGAL immigrants?
Why no call for sanctions on the employers who exploit these folks? Why just agree with bushco and the wingnuts about punishing the illegals, but no mention of sanctions on the employers?
Still waiting. Only lj and AFN have agreed with that.
The rest of you? Crickets chirping…
I fully expect Kansas to be a national political target over the next two election cycles. Both Senate seats will be up (08 and 10), and he’s to be believed, Brownback won’t be running again. The Governor’s office will be an open seat. If you read the Republican blogs, you’ll see that they’re in a complete froth over Nancy Boyda. Tiahrt is acting nervous.
Yep. We’re gonna be getting _a_lot_ of attention.
ksfarmgrrl never lies, she just puts her hands over her ears and blithers.
LJ, good GRIEF!
“i never said you advocated for illegal immigration. I never sasid you lied.”
And I never said you did! Please post where I said that.
I think it is YOU that got caught!
I9s are in place for a reason. Every employee should have one on file with two forms of ID for certification. We own a business and always do this when hiring.
Farmie you just showed your true stripes. I never said or implied that you hired illegals. I just said you didn’t read the article just the headline and your hate started spinning you. That must be a pretty sight to see you get so wound up you can spin the rest of the day.
Heheheeh Tom. It is indeed starting early.
Another reason the wingnut evangelicals are targeting ks?
They think it is their bastion of wingnuttia. They think they RULE here. And in the past, that has certainly been true. They have ruled here. Look around at the results.
It’s a gamble though. If they cant maintain their evangelical wingnut empire in ks…
…I think we’ll be singing “ding dong the witch is dead” right here in oz. How embarassing if they lose Kansas. What with our powerful four seats in congress and massive amounts of electorial votes and all.
Nope. Pure grandstanding and symbolism.
Jesus wept!
ksfarmgrrl,You are right. We should fine employers to discourage them from hiring illegal aliens. However, you should first provide a way for the illegal aliens to work legally before you start fining the places that hire them.You are wanting to take step 2 before 1, and this will not work.
Here is your quote directed at me:
“So could someone please repost the part of my posts that are not TRUE!
The part where I lied? The part where I ADVOCATED for illegal immigration?
That’s the problem lj. You took a wingnut position here. Dont whine because you were caught.”
What other “wingnut” position did I take? Please tell me.
“I never said or implied that you hired illegals”
…and I never said you did germie. It was solly that said it. Guilty conscience?
Heheheh. For those of you keeping score at home, just take a look at the “progress” of this thread.
Then make a judgement about whose hatred, spittle and froth got the best of whom….
SS, once again, that doesnt even make sense. They wouldnt BE crossing the boarders if it were not for the businesses and people that provide them jobs. Your own post said they come for the jobs that provide a better life.
Stop the employers from hiring illegals and they wont be pouring over the boarder at the same rate. Then it will be easier to control the boarder.
I think YOU have step 2 before step 1.
Oh that is what I saw on your chin. Thanks for letting me know.
Spin all you want. Your hate has told on you. You saw the dreaded word ‘evangelical’ and went into orbit. The problem was not reading the article.
Isn’t tripping yourself up the pits.
LJ, I said you took a wingnut postion before you posted this:
“And just so you know, since you asked: I would put all those who knowlingly employ illegals either in jail or fine them a huge percentage of their profits. I have no use for them, or the illegals.
Posted by: littlejohn | May 10, 2007 at 09:52 AM
If that is how you feel, then no, I dont count you among the wingnuts.
Germie, please answer my questions before you adopt the meme of “you saw evangelicals and went nuts”.
Care to apologize for saying I called you a liar?
I thought not. Being a wingnut means you never have to say your sorry…
…or admit the truth. I’ll let my posts stand on their own for the readers here.
We should be controlling our borders better anyway. That should be step 1.There are already fines in place for employers hiring illegal aliens. I-9’s require 2 forms of ID, and all employers are required to have their employees submit I-9’s.There is really no incentive or way for illegal aliens to work here legally. Once we make this available, they will sign up for a guest worker program. Most of these people would rather be here legally and work legally.
Still waiting for someone to repost my lies, the parts where I advocated FOR illegal immigration, and where I expressed hatred for anyone.
I guess with the wingnuts, if you disagree with them or their evangelical political operatives, it equals hate.
But they dont hate the queers. Oh no.
Hehehehe. I just hate the sins of the evangelicals, not evangelicals per se.
Sound familiar? Hypocrisy, thy name is wingnut.
Time to go muck the coop farmgrrl, and get those prickly weeds taken care of in the tater patch or you will be setting up a fence for cut worms. :D
SS, if you dont see that jobs have to be controlled first before the boarders, then there is no way to make you understand what I am saying.
“There are already fines in place for employers hiring illegal aliens.”
No shit. So maybe we need BIGGER fines and BETTER enforcement?
You think if “word” got back to Mexico that the jobs had dried up, folks would still be risking their lives in droves to cross the boarder illegally?
And who says it cant be done at the same time? Employer CRIMINAL sanctions and tougher boarder control can be done at the same time. It doesnt have to go in order.
Unless your real agenda is to protect the folks who ILLEGALLY employ illegals?
Would that be your comment of substance today republican? You know, like you said about me yesterday? As Tracy would say “Pitiful. Just pitiful”.
“…or admit the truth. I’ll let my posts stand on their own for the readers here.”————
ROFLMAO
You wouldn’t know the truth if it slithered up and bit you on the behind.
ksfarmgrrl,My only agenda is to be compassionate towards illegal aliens, while being fair to us “natives” at the same time.You are right. All 3 things can be done at the same time. But you have to admit that while we do have some measures to control the borders, and discourage employers from hiring illegal workers, we have nothing in place to encourage these workers become legal. That is my agenda.
I forgot what I said about you yesterday farmgrrl. Perhaps you will repeat it here for everyone to read. :)
Grrrrl,OK, reality check for the little soap box you are convulsing on. You want to punish the businesses first, then deal with the aliens.OK, so some branch of government comes in and slaps them with a fine. They pay the fine and fire the aliens…. And then what? They are out of work, so how do you expect them to eat?
Why do you hate illegal aliens Farmie? Why do you want them to starve???????
SolDevVB,Exactly my point. To add on to your comment, once these aliens are out of work, they will more likely turn to crime than to just go back home.
The only solution to the problem of illegal immigration is to apply the Death Penalty for those that HIRE illegal aliens. After they string up just one business owner, the problem will be over.
By the way, Grm, are you still working on the “Clinton mothballed 2/3 of the submarine fleet” link?
WS,Then after the illegals have no jobs… what? Wait for the police to catch them and…. what?
‘Then after the illegals have no jobs”
They come here for one reason, Sol – jobs. No jobs, no reason to be here.
The root cause of the problem is US employers that hire illegals for cheap labor. The problem has to be attacked at the root.
We have no one to blame for this problem other than those that hire illegal aliens.
Point taken WS, but as there are millions of illegals here right now, what happens when we punish the companies, the companies fire them, and these millions are out on the street jobless?
OK here we go. Maybe this will be more palatable:
CAUSE: US employers want cheap laborEFFECT: Illegals enter the country
CAUSE: We punish the businesses that hired the illegalsEFFECT: Illegals on the street with no jobs
I agree it was a blind eye for too many decades that started the problem, but you have to look at the best way to solve it. You have to look at is going to do the least amount of damage. The illegals have to be deported or worker programmed, or whatever BEFORE you put into place a framework that will leave them to turn only to crime to support themselves and their families.
Are we forgetting the stats that the typical illegal has been arrested 6 times!?
Are we forgetting that these poor folks who ‘just want a better life’ are breaking OTHER laws in the States?
Are we forgetting that these poor illegals, are DEPORTED, not punished when they are caught breaking the law?
Murderers, violent rapists, robbers….all are deported.
And they come right back.
The answer is NOT to execute the business owners – it’s to execute the illegals. Once the punishment phase begins – there will be a river of criminals – flowing back to the cesspool that spawned them.
Amnesty didn’t work years ago, it won’t work now. Get ‘em out, starting with the terrorists, the criminals, and the ne’er-do-wells. They can apply later for legal entry.
“Murderers, violent rapists, robbers….all are deported.”
That is not true. As with any immigrant, they serve their sentence and THEN are deported.
You may remember an international incident recently when a Mexican citizen was executed in Texas, despite the fact that he was not given access to his Consulate according to convention.
And I would like to see some evidence that the average illegal has been arrested six times – I find that hard to believe.
Point taken WS, but as there are millions of illegals here right now, what happens when we punish the companies, the companies fire them, and these millions are out on the street jobless?
“The answer is NOT to execute the business owners – it’s to execute the illegals”
Without jobs they wouldn’t be coming up here.Hiring illegals is well illegal.
Since construction work has been drying up imigration is way down.Think there’s a connection?
The DP comment was obviously over the top, deliberately, but the process of correcting the problem is to focus on the source. Jail a few business owners, the rest will see the light. It maybe to painful for a few years, but eventually the root problem will be eradicated.
Every other measure is just putting a band aid on a gaping wound.
Point taken WS, but as there are millions of illegals here right now, what happens when we punish the companies, the companies fire them, and these millions are out on the street jobless?
“That is not true. As with any immigrant, they serve their sentence and THEN are deported.”————–
That’s not true, WS. My sister works for a DA in Colorado. The illegals are put on an ICE hold – they are NOT charged, and then they are deported. Sometimes they arrest the same guy numerous times because he keeps sneaking back in.
That’s a fact.
Check it out.
“Since construction work has been drying up imigration is way down.Think there’s a connection?”—————-
Don’t know where you get your information – but I’m in construction – and it’s booming.But, we don’t hire wetbacks.
Provide a link to support your claim, Ms. Sheridan. I cannot find anything to suggest that suspected murderers, rapists etc are just deported. I provided evidence that your statements was not factual, in the Texas capital murder case.
I would believe that minor crimes are resolved via deportation only, but not felonies.
Please provide something other than anecdotal evidence.
Anyone that wants to see the conservations as they transpired from Sebelius to the White House after the Greensburg tradgey click on the link below.
I should warn liberals that this might be good for their constitution. It is only going to get worse as the ‘rest of the story’ comes out. Watching Sebelius fishtail trying to find solid ground is saddening because I am one conservative that agreeded with at least some of her policies.
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/08/ks-gov-tries-her-hand-at-disaster-chasing/
gsheridan,
Housing bubble is bursting, news to you? Why am I not surprised. 1st quarter gdp [you do know what that is?] came in at 1.3% unrevised will probably be revised down. Unsold inventory of new construction is estimated at 1 to 1.5 million units. But you knew that right.Even in Wichita houses are staying long time on the market.
Point taken WS, but as there are millions of illegals here right now, what happens when we punish the companies, the companies fire them, and these millions are out on the street jobless?
Grm – Did you find that link while you were looking for the one about Clinton mothballing 2/3 of the submarine fleet?
Sol, how would you propose dealing with the situation with illegals other than attacking to source of the problem? Many have suggested deportation. Fine. Let them deport themselves when they figure out that they cannot get a job. Rounding up twelve million people is no easy task, despite claims to the contrary.
I understand that having few million unemployed illegals would be problematic, but there is no quick and easy fix.
You know WS I don’t have to find the link. Hank expounded on what I said and his explanation made sense. I still say that in Bremerton, WA is an entire fleet of fast attack sub that are totally useless because they were mothballed in 1992-1994.
But don’t try to change the subject. I know your tactics. When you find yourself behind the eight ball you start spinning as farmie did this morning.
We have a governor (democrat) who is implodding and an immigration policy (republican) that isn’t working so I feel safe moving on to other subjects. If you want to stay on that one, fine. Just don’t expect anymore answers from me on it.
OK, face forward and direct your attention. We have some real issues we are discussing today. Are you focused yet? I hope so.
“entire fleet of fast attack sub that are totally useless because they were mothballed in 1992-1994.”
All the Sturgeon Class submarines were replaced by newer and better Los Angeles and Virgina Class vessels. The number of decommissioned units were exceeded by the replacement craft.
There were 43 Sturgeon Class. They were replaced by 49 LA Class and 2 Virginia Class, with nine more Virginia Class on order or in construction.
The older submarines were replaced – not MOTHBALLED.
Unlike you, Grm, I use facts to back up my debate points.
You make up so many stories that debunking your posts has become a cottage industry.
“I understand that having few million unemployed illegals would be problematic, but there is no quick and easy fix.”
The understatement of the year. You might have even beaten Bush.
There needs to be a migrant worker program in the mix to begin with. Allow those here to apply as such. Legally taxed and cared for.
Put in place the legislation to deeply fine those that still hire illegals.
If an illegal is picked up for any crime, he/she is deported and not allowed to sign up for the worker program, EVER. If he/she is picked up again, he/she is sent to prison for a very uncomfortably long time.
Give a two strike rule to those on the program for misdemeanor offenses. If they screw up once, warn them. Second time, they are sent home and not allowed to rejoin the program. If they commit a ‘major’ crime, they are out for good.
Pretty simple? You have to account for the impact of your actions. Just fining the businesses would dump millions on the street with crime as their only income.
Sol, many folks (mostly on the right, but some on the left as well) advocate the immediate deportation of all illegal aliens. The cost of that, provided that they all could be located, would be enormous.
Twelve million illegals at a cost of deportation of what? $1,000 per capita? $10,000 per capita?
The cost would make the War on Iraq look cheap.
Let them gradually deport themselves.
As I said, there are no easy answers, but allowing US employers to continue to hire illegals with little or no consequence is ridiculous.
We have to start at the root of the problem.
WS,Why would they deport themselves? After the danger and cost to get over here, they’ll just say “OK, Time to leave…” I don’t think so. That is a pipe dream. How would an unemployed illegal come up with the 1-10K you purpose? It is an unreal scenario.
If you are so hot and bothered by the companies that hire them, then charge said company for the deportation cost.
What you suggest puts millions on the street scrambling for dollars. Just how do you suspect they will come up with that money?
Catch you tomorrow WS. Looking forward to your comments.
Y’all have a good evening.
“That is a pipe dream. How would an unemployed illegal come up with the 1-10K you purpose?”
I was suggesting that WE, the American taxpayer would end up footing the bill to deport illegal immigrants. I was suggesting that the cost to INS and LE would be easily $1 – 10 K.
I was not suggesting the the aliens come up with the money.
As for the millions on the streets? I am not one of the people screaming that we immediately deport them. I am suggesting that we kill the beast by cutting off it’s head!
The “deport themselves” comment was to suggest that if they could not find work, they would not come here or they would go back home.
If they are predisposed to crime – they will/have already acted on it.
Illegal immigrants will always be with us as long as corporate America demand cheaper labor.
Do you honestly think that if illegals are given a way to become legal and start paying taxes that their employers would keep these illegals employed? Remember, if illegals start paying taxes, then that means their employers have to start paying their share of payroll taxes also.
the problem is not with the illegals coming here, it is corporate America’s greed driving the demand for cheap labor.
“Provide a link to support your claim, Ms. Sheridan”———–
If you recall, WS, just recently, there were six or seven illegals arreseted in Newton, charged with raping three underage girls. The paper reported they would be deported.
I don’t know who told you that we try them here in the states.
cat – do you think that removing a minimum wage would counter the situation?
“I don’t know who told you that we try them here in the states.”
Everything I have read indicates that they ARE tried, convicted and serve their terms. The issue seems to be that they are not automatically deported AFTER they finish their sentences.
I researched the issue I could not find a single source that said suspected felons were deported rather than tried for their crimes.
As I said, please provide a link – I could not find one.
WS – you are correct. I was wrong. I contacted my sister. They DO try some of them – some they deport, some serve their sentences and then are deported, some serve their sentences and then are released, although they were under the ICE hold.
Sorry. My bad.
No harm, no foul, GSheridan.
GS, in the agricultural employment area, at least for federal minimum wage and maximum hour purposes, this employment is already exempted under FLSA.I believe that domestic (in home) employment is also exempt under FLSA.
“The SSN force included more than 90 boats during most of the 1980s, peakedat 98 boats at the end of FY1987, and then began to decline. The force included 85to 88 boats during the early 1990s, 79 boats at the end of FY1996, 65 boats at the endof FY1998, 57 boats at the end of FY1999, and 56 boats at the end of FY2000. It hassince numbered 54 to 56 boats.”
http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RL32418.pdf
WS You know my number might have been a little high and for that I apologize. By the same token your info is misleading in that you are talking about boats currently in production and I was talking about the Clinton era. He started with 88 subs at the beginning of his term and had 54 to 56 when his term was over. That is a drastic reduction by anyones standards. Those numbers came right out of the congressional records.
“Should this country, for ‘humanitarian reasons’ discard all immigration laws and let them all come here? After all, the poor don’t have a future in their own country, so lets let them all come here?”
Isn’t that what America is all about? You know “give us your poor, your tired and those yearning to be free” or some shit like that.
Border security needs to be improved but it is not a cure all for this problem. First of all we cannot patrol thousands of miles of border 24/7. Secondly MOST illegals did NOT sneak in the border. Most of them came here LEGALLY on visas and never went home.
Wrong again, Grm. I mentioned four vessels in production and five on order. Even discounting those, there are more Los Angeles Class (49)replacements than the total of Sturgeon Class submarines (43).
Your hatred of anything Clinton and your habit of making up your own facts led you to lose once again.
As I stated before, you have an unbelievably poor record with facts on this blog. You should be embarrassed with your fast and loose approach to the truth.
Thank you for playing the game – collect your consolation prize at the door on your way out.
No wonder two wives left him…
At least I had wives, Repuke. I hear that you are still “saving” yourself for marriage.
The women of the world are unanimous in thanking you for waiting.
Whats the big deal with attack subs? Gonna float them up and down the Rio Grand scaring the illegals back to Mexico.
WS you have ridden that horse about as far as he will go. Did you have a problem in school following the teacher when they switched gears and went to a different subject?
Todays subject is immigration, Sebelius lies, Obama exagerations and gun rights.
I was wrong. Clinton only trashed around 60% of our fast attacks. Does that win you a prize idiot. He gutted our nuclear fleet, pure and simple. GET OVER IT! He was your prez.
“Clinton only trashed around 60% of our fast attacks.”
As usual, GRM, you cannot admit that you just made stuff up – again.
All the Sturgeon Class subs (and then some) were replaced with newer and better vessels. There are more attack subs now than there were before. Furthermore, Clinton has roundly criticized for acquiescing to the Pentagon’s requests.
Learn to read.
You do this all the time – you post stuff without foundation. When proven wrong, you NEVER admit it.
You are a joke.
“Did you have a problem in school following the teacher”
And thank God that YOU are not the teacher!
Damn, that is one scary thought. Talk about nightmares.
WSC,Is there any point in arguing with the germ? The woman is one lying nut, and should be ignored; unless of course, you don’t have enough to do and would like to experience more frustration in your life.
You know WS you are spouting lots of numbers with no foundation. Where is the link for these. I gave you the congressional record for the numbers I posted and you give me some important sounding names which mean zilch to me. I was talking about fast attacks.
Why do you throw up smoke screens all the time? Is it because you hardly ever have anything of substance to add to the discussion. You have belabored this point for three days now. Maybe tomorrow you can move on. If not I would suggest professional help.
The only way to end illegal immigration is to remove the roadblocks to legal immigration. There is no earthly reason in an age of computers for the papers to immigrate legally to take 10 years or more and cost $10,000+ in fees. A couple months for a background check and a couple hundred in costs is not at all unworkable, and any left that try to slip in would obviously be up to no good. We’d have the illegal problem down to manageable proportions, and the fingerprints and background checks we don’t get now.As for the economic arguments, don’t all you dyed-in-the-wool consevatives have a bit more faith in a free market than that? If you can’t compete for your job, maybe you ought to try working harder. These people come here with the same things your ancestors did; a willingness to work and a desire for something better for their families.All the other rationalizations boil down finally to racism, chauvinism and a few other equally disgusting isms, and it’s way past time to get over those!
When Clinton took office the cold war was over, with the reduction in the Soviet Fleet and the increased firepower of the Angeles Class subs, fewer attack subs were needed. The appropriation / approval and funding for the Angeles class subs occurred during Reagan’s presidency. Republicans controlled Congress during Clinton’s presidency and could have stopped the “decimation” of the attack class submarine program. Our capability to wage a sea war does not appear to have been diminished during either the Reagan, Bush 1, or Clinton presidency. So it appears to be a moot issue.
WS,You still miss the big picture. By what I understand, you want to extinguish the source or attractant for illegal aliens; the businesses that hire them. OK, so if you go after them, the illegals have no source of income.
The best you can offer is that they will self deport? After the danger and expense of coming over here, you feel that they will just pack their bags and head on home. I hope that you were just joking on that one. I’d expect more from you.
Once they are on the street, how would they finance the trip home? For that matter, how would they finance that evening’s meal? You can’t just flood the streets with illegals. Predisposition for crime? You’d be surprised what a man will do when their child is crying from hunger. So what are they to do?
Should the gov’t subsidize their illegal existence here? I understand that it was the US companies and farmers that attracted them here, but by going after them FIRST, you compound the problem 100 fold.
Time to stop going to the Catholic Church. They seem to only misister to child molesters, gay priests, and illegal aliens.
The rest can zark off as far as the Catholic Church is concerned.
I think that Church is dying. IF I were Catholic, I would quit.
Well, Sol, a certain amount of my post was tongue in cheek. Yes, there would be enormous problems if all of the jobs currently being done by illegal aliens were to suddenly disappear. For that matter, there would also be enormous problems if all of the illegal aliens were to suddenly disappear.
A man will do most anything if his child is crying from hunger – including crossing a border illegally to find a job.
We have to look at all avenues, but if there are jobs for the illegals, they will still come, no matter what we do.
The solution is multi-faceted, but it has to address the root problem – the jobs that are offered to the illegal immigrants.
On September 27, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) announced that the DREAM Act would not be considered as an amendment to H.R. 1585, the Defense Department authorization bill for fiscal year 2008.
The Washington Times reports, however, that Reid will push for passage of the DREAM Act, which would grant amnesty to millions of illegal aliens, by different means (possibly in its stand-alone form [S. 774, sponsored by Assistant Majority Leader Dick Durbin {D-Ill.}]) before the Senate adjourns for the year (i.e., on or about November 16).
Reid’s concession on the DoD authorization bill may doom other immigration-related amendments to the defense bill as well.
Please fax your senators: We have stopped the DREAM Act for now, but there is already a push to pass it as a stand-alone bill.
Senator Sam Brownback contact information- Taken from his web site
Office location Phone # Fax #Washington DC office 1-202-224-6521 1-202-228-1265Overland Park Office 1-913-492-6378 1-913-492-7253Topeka office 1-785-233-2503 1-785-233-2616Garden City office 1-620-231-6040 1-620-231-6347Wichita office 1-316-264-8066 1-316-264-9078
Senator Pat Roberts Contact Information Taken from his web site
Washington DC office 1-202-224-4774 1-202-224-3514Overland Park Office 1-913-451-9343 1-913-451-9446Topeka office 1-785-295-2745 1-785-235-3665Wichita office 1-316-263-0416 1-316-263-0273Dodge City Office 1-620-227-2244 1-620-227-2264
Representative Todd Tiahrt, Contact information taken from his web site
Wichita OfficeAddress: 155 North Market St.Suite 400Wichita, KS 67202Phone: 316.262.8992Fax: 316.262.5309Washington OfficeAddress: 2441 Rayburn BuildingWashington, DC 20515Phone: 202.225.6216Fax: 202.225.3489