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Community thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted May 29, 2007 at 1:00 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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120 Comments
Anyone noticed how many pot holes remain un-repaired on the major highways?
I was speeding down Kellogg and 135 this morning and found myself dodging them left and right. Why does it seem to take so long to parentally repair these?
I wish KDOT would take a page from CalTrans, they repaired that bridge that melted when the tanker caught fire in less than 60 days. We cant get a simple pot hole fixed in 6 months?
Speeding down Kellogg? Dodging left and right? And you complain about the hazards of *POTHOLES?* Slow down. Stay in your lane unless passing. Hang up and drive.
Good grief.
“Stay in your lane unless passing.”
And don’t try to avoid a hazard if it is in your lane?
Ben,
Since I live within a mile of the 135/Kellogg interchange, I drive 135 and/or Kellogg almost daily. How many hazards are there? Seriously! I’m not seeing this endless chain of potholes implied in Tony’s post.
The biggest hazards I see, especially on Kellogg, are aggressive drivers who tailgate, weave in and out of traffic, cut off merging vehicles (which have the right of way, btw), and who are too busy text messaging to pay attention to traffic.
This morning I heard a traffic report on KNSS about trash being dumped on Kellogg. I have had several times when I am dodging trash like that. However, I agree with you that there are not all that many potholes on the new part of Kellogg. However there are a few near I-135 which is rediculous as the pavement is not all that old. And then there is the old part near Rock …
By the way, a vehicle merging onto the road does NOT have right-of-way over a vehicle already ON the road.
Tom, than you are very failure with the interchanges along 135 Harry, Lincoln, etc… All of which have holes, all of which have shoulders pulling away from the roads…
Another good example is 135 to K15, where it changes from pavement to asphalt, there is a huge hole on the left.
Geezzzz…. I was being sarcastic in my earlier post, trying to point out the pot holes, yes, i do tend to drive about 10 over everywhere i go, but that’s what the rest of traffic drives at that time.
By the way, a vehicle merging onto the road does NOT have right-of-way over a vehicle already ON the road.Posted by: Ben | May 29, 2007 at 09:45 AM
Duh…you’re right. I left out “don’t”. My error.
Tony,
I live near Lincoln & 135; I use that ramp, and the Grove & Kellogg ramp most often. That northbound onramp from Lincoln to 135 continues on to become the N135 to W54 ramp. You don’t know the number of times I have almost been hit, *while legally in my lane,* by jerks “travelling 10 over” who try to merge from 135 into that lane. The only time the “shoulder pulling away” becomes an issue is when some jerk “travelling 10 over” forces me onto it.
Slow down. Pay attention. Don’t drive on the shoulders.
::eyeroll::
One problem that drivers of trucks fail to realize is that a given sive pothole has a much larger effect on that minority of us who drive cars as opposed to trucks.
Ben,
You mention the condition of Kellogg at Rock…seriously, anyone speeding through there *deserves* to break an axle. There’s more orange cones in east Wichita right now than people (okay, I exaggerate. But I work at Central & Woodlawn, and I’m SICK of the construction!!!)
I was on Kellogg Memorial Day and I didn’t see that many potholes. Of course I usually drive five mph slower than the posted speed limit because my reactions are slower than they used to be and I save gas. :)
Some people in Wichita are just knot heads. On the street I live, the posted speed limit is 35 mph. I’ve seen speeds frequently of 55-60 mph on my street.
So, you know what they do on Kellogg, they drive insanely fast and generally crude and rude drivers putting everyone in danger because of their reckless driving.
The only problem I had with chuck holes was last year. I ran into one that had snow melt water in it and didn’t realize the depth of the hole. BAM! Minus one tire with a busted belt and a front end alignment needed.
Personally I think they should have speed traps on Kellogg 24/7 and even post signs about the road being watched by radar. I’ve seen this work in some Texas Cities. The one North of San Antonio comes to mind, don’t remember the name of it. But I think the ticket fines pay for most of the small cities revenues. At least their patrols had better vehicles than the State Highway Patrol, so it was bringing in some revenue.
“I usually drive five mph slower than the posted speed limit”
Do you drive in the right or left lane? Please say right…
I think they need to raise the speed limit on kellogg. Traffic drives 70 on a daily basis, thats a majority, they should raise the limit. The road can handle it, there is no reason not to.
Kellogg is a death trap. Hell they need to reduce the speed.
I would not go for a 70mph limit on Kellogg because that would rtanslate to an average speed about 78. The current 60 = 68 is sufficient.
Republican, the National Safety Council says that if you are driving slower than prevailing speed you should keep right. I hope you do. As for saving gas, that depends on your vehicle. I have a better way to save gas and it involves about 65-68 mph.
Tony,
The speed limit on Kellogg should be *cut* from 60 to 55 between Grove and Seneca/Sycamore. The amount of merging traffic, and merging sometimes uphill at slow speeds (coming onto Kellogg from downtown, especially), makes for a very hazardous driving environment. There are already accidents in that stretch every day. If the limit gets raised to 70, we might as well change the name to “Abattoir Highway”
I would LOVE to trasplant some of those drivers onto the Dan Ryan (Chicago) during rush hour. Ot I-285 around Atlanta. They would never survive.
Tom – I think one difference in perspective some of us have is that we have driven in places like LA etc where this is the norm. A higher level of skill on the part of drivers would help tremendously.
I usually bear to the right, but with all the merging traffic that usually ignore that I am there, I have to brake quite frequently to avoid collisions. If I try to be courteous and move to the center lane to let the merging traffic in, the speeders get all pissed off at me for obeying the speed limit.
You speeders do realize that if you cause an accident and it is known that you are speeding (skid marks etc.), you can be more easily sued by the other car involved in the accident that was driving the speed limit.
Sorry, but I don’t feel the least bit guilty for obeying traffic laws.
The way the on/off ramps are designed with merging off while trying to make sure you’re not hitting the oncoming traffic is ridiculous. The only major accident I ever had in my entire life was on kellogg. And that’s exactly how it happened, was trying to merge off of Kellogg onto West street. Looked back and the traffic ahead of me stopped dead. 135 is just as bad in some spots.
I agree, speeders are dangerous to everyone. They think it’s their god given right to drive as fast as they want to- like the lives of others is some big freaking joke. I wish they’d triple the fines for speeders.
The higher level of skill is pish posh. I drove on the autobahn in Germany and in some parts of it, the speed is unlimited. I also had to take a much tougher drivers test than they have in the U.S. Also, the automobile inspection standard is much more stringent than it is here in the U.S. You don’t get away with balding tires, bad alignment or even rust.
You don’t know what driving skills are unless you have driven in Bavaria with cars around you going 100 mpg in the snow and the traffic is packed wall to wall.
The driving in the U.S. is child’s play. I’ve also driven in most of the European Countries as well.
Italians are the craziest drivers imo.
Here is the great mystery which I do not understand.
Instead of having construction on 50 different parts of the Wichita road system which last a year or more to complete.
Why don’t we fix a road in a month or less and then move on?
It drives me crazy that I drive through a place like Maple and Ridge and NEVER see anyone working yet the road is blocked off and will continue to be for quite some time.
I don’t remember the last time I seen anyone working at Rock and Kellogg either. I have driven through there at all hours.
Just fix the road working 10 hour days and get it done.
How hard can it be?
Am I way offbase? Is there something I’m missing?
Rep – then why do you have such difficulty maintaining 60 on Kellogg?
Italians definitely ARE crazy; however I think Athens is even worse!
Nathan – SO TRUE! And, if I get off Kellogg to avoid the construction I have MORE construction on Woodlawn and Central!
Rep – then why do you have such difficulty maintaining 60 on Kellogg?Posted by: Ben | May 29, 2007 at 10:54 AM
Because I only have partial feeling in my legs and feet. I make allowances for this physiological condition.
Ben,
Car and Driver has an editorial where the guy pretended to interview an alien on what he thought about our transportation system.
The part I almost died laughing on was when the alien asked about all the roange cones, barrles, and thin stick reflectors.
The alien said that apparently that would be the business to invest in, the one making all those orange barrels and whatnot since they seem to be in high demand.
I don’t know how many different roads in Wichita which I drive on are under construction and I NEVER see anyone working.
What is it? Like a 10 hour work week?
JUST GET IT DONE.
Interestingly, people are “speeding” in Wichita and in a vast majority of places in the US because municipalities don’t obey the rules for posting speed limits. These rules are set in a document called the “Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices” or “MUTCD” which HAD to be adopted by the states so that they could continue receiving federal highway dollars. Speed limits on highways are OK, but metro speed limits are cleary illegal in most instances.
If you look at the manual, speed limits can only be changed if:
1) a traffic survey has been performed.
2) the speed limit (the highest speed for good conditions on an open roadway) must then be set to the 85th percentile speed of traffic UNLESS the area meets at least one of a SPECIFIC set of reasons for making the speed limit lower.
3) the survey MUST be documented and on file.
Wichita (and most other towns/cities) don’t have traffic surveys for every posted speed limit, and, when they do, they often are MUCH lower than the 85th percentile speed, with no indication WHY the speed limit has been set lower. This is illegal. Someone just needs to go to the trouble and expense of taking the city to court over a speed infraction.
The idea is that drivers don’t try to kill themselves, so they travel at speeds appropriate for the road and conditions. Therefore, speed limits should be set according to a strict set of guidelines which recognizes this fact.
Oh, by the way, the city also uses lidar for most traffic stops. The scientific principles behind radar are well-established and accepted by every US court. On the other hand, the scientific principles behind lidar have never received “judicial review” (i.e. general acceptance) in KS, and a number of other states have banned use of lidar because of its tendency to have errors in measurement.
In that case, Rep, it would seem that you would have extreme difficulty in Europe which you used as your example.
Very good poinrs BFAH. My experience on Kellogg is that “85″ would be about 65 mph. Not as high as Tony wants but definitely above what Rep wants.
The drivers in Wichita are gradually getting better. I hear all the time how it’s them “furin’” drivers, meaning east and west coast drivers, causing all the problems.
Ain’t true. East and west coast drivers grew up driving in conditions most Wichita drivers would cower from.
You will never stop all morons on the road, both the slow and speeders, but by doing something about road conditions and lanes, it can be made managable.
“Italians definitely ARE crazy; however I think Athens is even worse!”
My god, ever drive in Mexico City? Close your eyes, and go for it:-)
Traffic in Europe is nothing compared to traffic in Asia. American traffic is pretty tame in comparison, due in part to our propensity to rigidly enforce traffic laws. Europe as well.
Three worst cities to drive in, imo:1) Mumbai (Bombay)2) Bangkok3) Jakarta
In Asia lane markers are merely suggestions, no more. Also, there are gazillions of scooters and bicycles in all lanes of traffic. And of course Asians are infamous among Westerners for their left turns (ie, it’s a race at the light change – left-turn lanes require real estate and are therefore rare in Asia; at least half the time the car turning left “wins” the open space, blocking oncoming traffic headed straight….and then every car turning left just follows car #1; it’s not unusual to sit yielding in the center of an interesection to a long line of cars snaking left in front of you; of course all the time there are scooters shooting any and all available gaps in traffic, wherever they appear).
I swear I left permanent finger marks in the first taxi I rode in Asia, and I was constantly yelling at the driver to “watch out!” He of course thought I was possibly insane, at best a worry-wart, soft American. The good news is that you do adapt and hell, after a while it’s not that really that bad.
There are very few automobiles in Asia that aren’t scarred up from minor traffic accidents. It’s not at all unusual to see a brand new 700-series BMW or new large Mercedes with dents and scuff marks at each of the 4 corners.
I make a rule not to drive further than 3 states distance from Kansas.
Had great weather for the most part. Very entertaining experience.
I haven’t been on a long road trip in five years. I’ve been flying.
The trip was fine, no construction barrels on the way to KC and through Missouri.
Coming back, some cars packed and construction projects.
Some rain showers wasn’t fun to drive through, didn’t last long.
What really irritated me on the turnpike is the treeless land near Wichita. Most of the interstate coming down has forests of trees to enjoy.
I know farmers burn, no point having trees that could catch on fire. It’s ugly land without trees to me.
State of Illinois has a train that travels length of the State. Kansas should too.
Wichita has to create a train system from here to OKC, to Kansas City. To the Colorado border.
Fast train so it’s beneficial for business schedules.
Didn’t see any accidents on interstates, that was good for every traveler.
The ARENA battle for existence is over! Doubters exist, yes!
Financial concerns long term, sure! With 15,000 seats not as potentially useful.
Since we’re going to have a downtown arena, let’s fight to get one that’s beneficial long term as Wichita and Sedgwick County grow.
The downtown arena has to have 18,000 seats for basketball games and enough surface parking.
Challenge of parking does not disqualify the downtown arena at all.
Those are the key considering to me.
In that case, Rep, it would seem that you would have extreme difficulty in Europe which you used as your example.Posted by: Ben | May 29, 2007 at 11:34 AM
Not really Ben, I had no medical problems back then and was much younger.:)
“The downtown arena has to have 18,000 seats for basketball games and enough surface parking.”
Ain’t gonna happen. 15,000 seats. Parking to be sorted out later. Paying to develop parking with be ‘interesting’. Getting the money to cover the operating losses will also be ‘interesting’ since the $23,611,000 is not there as promised.
People don’t set out to hurt themselves? Have you ever tried working an accident in blizzard conditions and seen these idiots drive by at 70 mph?
No, people do not use good judgement, not even if it means their lives. That has to be the most preposterous thing I’ve ever heard.
You think Kellogg is a death trap? LOL! Kellogg is tame, big time.
People obviously haven’t driven in cities larger than Wichita, like Atlanta, Dallas, Houston and etc.
Kellogg is as safe as can be. And no potholes either.
Very true Joe! Try any of the freeways in LA or Sacramento; the dan Ryan or Tristate in Chicago; I-285 in Atlanta. Heck, even check out the tame high-ways in KC!
However Joe; Kellogg is developing some potholes on the older (relatively) freeway portions.
They seem to patch those pretty quickly though. The only bad freeway part of our area is in between Wichita and the County going through Park City on I-135.
Basically it’s on Park City’s end. But Park City doesn’t have any money to make the necessary repairs and repaving of their portion of I-135. They annexed all that land, yet don’t do anything about the roads. They should have thought about that before jumping on annexation, especially without consent of the county. Sucks to be Park City. I’m sure KDOT going to have to force them to make it happen and just bill Park City for it.
Ben,
I’m happy the re-vote feelings will stop.
It’s good to argue for the increased in seats, because that pertains to use and future costs of operation.
Your afraid the 15,000 seat facility will be less busy. More costly to run because of that.
Remember what Tulsa is doing, two colleges with their own arena’s and still constructed a free standing one downtown there.
SMG is marketing their arena and ours.
Tulsa didn’t win the Big 12 basketball tournament in 2009, its going back to Oklahoma City. In Kansas City, next year. Omaha tried and failed.
Both cities will try and try again.
Wichita should be in that bidding process with them.
Dallas, St. Louis, San Antonio, are the given. Kansas City wants the Big 12 basketball tournament forever, like it used to be at Kemper Arena.
It’s the new places Oklahoma City, someday in Omaha or Tulsa.
Someday should happen within the borders of Kansas, downtown Wichita.
Regionally, that’s the arena life we should be living.
Stop suggesting that’s our definitive fate with a 15,000 seat arena.
Outsiders find that 15,000 seat arena incredibly dumb, they can’t believe it! I have relatives from out of state in town.
We’re in a situation right now.
Time still exists to improve our downtown arena with more seats.
Community demanding more seats would help.
Omaha built theres with 15,000 seats and now they are undergoing an expensive expansion only after 2 years since it’s been built to add more seats, so Mrage does have a point.
Let me point out something about the Arenas, all but Little Rock were either built with or added on a convention center.
I still say, its redicilious that the arena is being built as an arena, not a convention center.
In response to Tom’s post earlier, the pot holes are all over the place, check kellogg between west and 135. The bridges over Seneca and Meridian all have holes, some patched with quick patch, most not. There are gaps all the way down west kellogg between each lane that are loosing its “filler” and thus allowing it to break open. Other areas of disrepair include of 135 south of 1st/2nd sts, the on and off ramps at lincon, harry, pawnee, k15, etc… so, yea, there are a lot of areas that need help.
I don’t CARE how bad it is in relation to x city or y city…do we want it to be that bad before we fix it? Give me a break.
It is still BAD.
I’d say it’s one of the worst stretches of road to drive in the state.
Mrage – if you think it should be 18,000 seats then it is up to YOU to make it so. It is NOT up to me. As for “the re-vote feelings will stop” that is not really true. You are absolutely correct that the County Commissioners will ignore them but that does NOT mean they will go away.
Trust me on this, when they have to start looking for subsidies we will be there to remind them that they PROMISED $23,611,000 reserve fund to pay the subsidies. Did they LIE to us when they said that will be there? YES! And that will come home to roost.
The County acknowledged that there will be deficits; that is why they promised the $23,611,000 reserve fund. Mrage and Joe – how do you propose coveing the deficits?
I have a mechanism – a benefit district tax on Old Town. After all, the County says the Old Town Arena is a benefit FOR Old Town. So, set up a taxing district. Let Old Town fund the deficits for their Arena.
Mrage, Joe – what do you think? How will we cover the deficits that the County has clearly stated will exist?
Ben,
Is that you? The Old Town Arena? I haven’t heard that.
City isn’t going to create a taxing district for the County Arena.
City won’t let County take over Old Town property in that manner.
Future operation deficits could exist.
More likely, if our arena has 15,000 seats. Events will pass Wichita to neighboring states arenas.
Those big events we desire most!
I drove by Olathe and felt them!
They will figure out a way to change Star Bonds program if allowed, to use tax money on buildings. They won’t hesitate to construct a 18,000 seat arena if Wichita fails to do so.
They are working on that plan right now. They want to create a Soccer Field Stadium, then lease it. They consider themselves in the mix to get a KC MLS soccer team.
Olathe would have their desires on KU off campus basketball games. Still be in the Kansas City market with a new arena facility.
That’s the back up plan if the soccer stadium fails.
What if Olathe could pull both facilities off in some magic public financing way!
The State isn’t laughing at them for trying!
The same people frowned at Wichita wanting Star Bonds use for WaterWalk. Right now Star Bonds are used on land issues, landscape and sidewalks.
That’s what we have to fear. Being bettered with the arena idea in our state!
With 15,000 seats, the County is not including KU off campus basketball games to be someday played occasionally in Wichita.
It’s up to corporates here to demand an improved arena. The Community adding their voice helps.
I’m suggesting to a few executives find some marketing value in the downtown arena. Who wants corporate naming rights on the smallest arena in this region?
Today’s business can’t let future business get away. This is a 25 year structure.
Future deficits concerns can be lessened if Corporates took some ownership in the downtown arena.
The Corporate has to want increased marketing coverage with events on National TV.
We’re more likely to get national TV events with a 18,000 seats arena.
Bid for the tournaments that travel around us. Bid for the events regional arena’s get.
I’m asking, turn the arena doubts into desires. Desire the best arena we can get.
We’ve never had a arena facility equal to regional cities. This is our chance.
Tony,
I’m sorry, the downtown location doesn’t allow a convention center next to it.
County had no desires to create a new Convention Center at all.
Using a borrowed computer tonight – not at home base. Keep getting that crazy cpatcha check thing too.
Good luck getting 18,000 seats. Let us know how that works out for you. Meanwhile – how to cover the deficits? Why not establish a taxing district? Do you have a better idea?
It is YOUR job to make YOUR desires reality. Meanwhile, I will simply observe and take notes for future use.
Convention Center – in conjunction with a casino perhaps?
Probably will add one in the future. We will see how the downtown Casino goes, but they just might buy us a new convention center along with a new main library.
The Kansas Coliseum has been running million dollar deficits every year, so does Century II. These are not profitable venues. Since the new downtown arena will replace the Britt Brown Arena, and everything will transfer to the new arena, there is not “huge” deficits or extra taxes needed to maintain the new arena. It’s not really going to cost anymore. The maintenance and operation funds is for standby purposes only. It’s like a kitty to dip into just in case. They don’t expect to dip into that fund unless need to. They will do just fine without it and most likely will never touch it for 20 years.
But the re-vote crowd will continue to lie about the facts.
Joe! The County clearly stated that the Arena will have larger deficits than Britt Brown. That is why the County promised the $23,611,000 reserve fund. The Coliseum is close to break-even (according to Ron Holt); C-II a few tenths of a million deficit. The Albino Pachyderm will run deficits that will dwarf that.
I hope you are correct about “no new taxes” (where have I heard thayt before?) to support your Arena. Are these words lies?:
“We know from researching Arenas in other communities that we mustplan for operating deficits at the Downtown Arena. The initial plan provided for an operation reserve fund of $30 million. Citizens told us that they liked theidea of not coming back to them asking for more money (or raising property taxes) tocover deficits; but there was also a sense that the reserve fund could be less. Theoperation reserve fund was reduced to $23,611,000.”
It is no longer $23,611,000. That was sucked up by the 45% increase in core costs, even with the over increase in prce tag. So, Joe!, where will you get the money?
Joe! Is that quote above a lie? If the County is correct and they need to cover deficits where do you propose raising the money? Do you have a mechanism to offer?
They obviously believed that $23 million is enough.
Next!
Ok Joe, I’ll bite…
You say: “… everything will transfer to the new arena, there is not “huge” deficits or extra taxes needed to maintain the new arena.”
If CII and the KC are running huge deficits, how will bringing on another arena help??? I doubt much if anything will move from CII to the new Arena. I bet more things will move from KC to CII than to the Arena.
Lets look at KC’s event list for June, there are only 2 different events, lasting 7 days booked. The Hays Tractor Sale and the Wichita Wild Football team, that’s it… Both events will NOT go to the Arena. So far in July, there is only 1 event scheduled and its a rock concert which would most likely go to the new Arena.
So far in two months, 1 event that would run at the new arena… Now, tell me how is this arena going to make money and not need subsidies? How can this city/county support 3 different large venues (CII, KC & New Arena) all running milti-million deficits?
As I have said from the beginning, I have been for an Arena/Convention Center, but against the current plan. I have proposed my own plan that works, so I HAVE the right to complain.
And what deficits are you talking about. Where does the county say that the new arena will have large deficits, especially of those vastly exceeding that of Britt Brown?
I’ll wait! You can go to the anti-arena crowd and I’m sure they’ll shit a make-believe figure for you.
Well, lets see here… An arena costs money to run. If an arena isnt bringing any money in, but is spending money, i think thats called a deficit isnt it? Let me ask my 5 year old, yep, it sure is…
Joe! Yes, 23 million might have been enough. BUT! It ain’t there any more. It got spent with the construction/acquisition cost overruns.
Joe! I don’t go to the “anti-arena crowd” to get information. Mine comes from the County. My quote about the deficits came DIRECTLY from the County. Ron Holt shit the make-believe figure. YOU KNOW THAT!
Tony – remember, Britt Brown (part of the KC) WILL be closed so there will be some savings. I will give that to Joe!
Ben…
Yes, “SOME” savings… But really, how much? just environmentals, utilities, but thats it… There will still be essencial maintence, there will still be “taxes” and the entire venue will still loose money.
In 2 months, there is only one event that even uses the rest of the KC complex, that is the tractor show that spills into the pavilions (i believe), otherwise, the rest of the venue isnt used as of now for 2 months. We still have to pay the upkeep on that, so therefor will still draw a loss.
You are absolutely correct Tony. The savings at Britt will be much less than the costs at the Arena. That was confirmed to me by Ron Holt.
It WILL be built. I have no doubt about that. And, when they need the money to cover the deficits I will ask what happened to the $23,611,000. I will remind Joe! of “They will do just fine without it”.
And, of course, as they belatedly realize that they need to do something about parking …
The Arena will be open before the dates of the Bowling Tournament. Maybe they can find a way to snag that back and put it into their Arena.
I still wonder … March 2010 … will we have NCAA? Big 12? Any guesses?
I bet not Ben…
Also, to bat back at Mrage from an earlier post:
Umm… Mrage,
I beg to differ about not having enough space for a convention center. I designed an arena plot in just about the exact same area and it would support a convention center. I took the satellite photos of Omaha, OKC, Little Rock and others, overlaid them over downtown (at the correct scale of course) and guess what, it fits, the key is to close off or overlay waterman or move farther south.
My thoughts were to put the entire thing south of waterman, east of Topeka, west of the tracks and north of Kellogg, yes, all the way to Kellogg (all the way to Orme, S. of Kellogg). I would create a counter clock wise, one way street around the arena (except for waterman) and put a convention center/arena all within those 5-6 blocks. I would use that area under and S. of Kellogg for the “service entrances”, truck parking, etc… (yes, the poor delinquent skateboarders will have to find some other place to fight).
Even if the arena is left where it is, a convention center is feasible, the entire design would have to be re-worked and the bus depot, lofts at St. Francis and old Spegitti Works building would have to be demolished. Or it could be placed south of Waterman with people bridges over waterman (something like what KC, Chicago, NYC, etc… has done)…
Oh, and to close Lewis to traffic and turn it into a ped walk way between WaterWalk and the Arena. This would hopefully create a shopping/eating district between the two facilities. Also a great place to develop parking so that people can walk between the two along very nice, tree lined, maybe some fountians, parks, etc… walkway between the two facilities.
SOUTH would be the way to go. Or perhaps west – isn’t there vacant land southeast of the Boathouse?
Ben, thats correct… I believe there is some kind of large pit there now…
Tony,
I have to download that satellite section of downtown…while I’m waiting here.
The County isn’t going to build it!
The Lofts at St.Francis torn down? That’s not happening. The bus depot too? Maybe the Spaghetti Warehouse, but isn’t that a historical structure. A huge fight right there.
City doesn’t have will to do that.
They are responsible to build a new Convention Center.
Space may exist down there as you describe but that’s the wrong location. Somewhere by the river could a free standing Convention Center be built.
West side of the river.
Century II right now and in the future as possibly Casino property, isn’t going to close.
Maybe close for interior remodeling temporarily but that’s space for future conventions and Casino shows.
What if a new Convention Center and Library was put together, in the Watkins Steel lot, use property behind it, to Seneca if need be. Move Key Construction offices. Housing and few business properties back there.
Who wants a new Convention Center? The City doesn’t right now.
They don’t have enough, sell The Hyatt. Sell land by the river. Sell the Library building.
Casino vote has to be approved.
Sell and then see what they could build. A new Library and new Convention Center are possible.
I don’t know the push is out there for a new Convention Center.
The Watkins Steel lot is available. Work with that lot and nearby property to create something is real.
It’s a large space, just for the Library. Not a bad location in my mind if the City desires a new Convention Center.
Different designed building, tall with large windows facing the river. Facing the new Casino across the river behind Century II.
The Arena has to exist on its own for now.
If some hotel wants to tear some property downtown near the arena, they have to show the interest.
The bus Depot shouldn’t have to move. A new hotel would be closer to Kellogg, than to Douglas in that area.
That hotel won’t have a Convention Center connected either.
The best idea to me is new Convention Center and Library in the Watkins Steel lot and land behind it.
Mrage,
I know they don’t have the will to do it, but that was the hidden point, the location that its at is a bad location…
Why is the more southern location the wrong one? Please support your statement…
West side of the river works, but I would tend to keep the ball park, alter it a bit to support football and concerts, but keep it.
I do like the idea of a convention center and library being built up on Watkins… I also support the West Bank Stage ampatheater.
My point in pushing for the convention center is that we are overlooked for some major conventions because we do not have one building with 100k ft of continuous convention floor. My other point is the most likely location for a casino is the CII, Hyatt and potentially Broadview location. So, with that said, if the city had on their drawing board a new convention and arts center, CII would be more easily “sold” off.
Even though I agree with the idea of the convention center in Delano, I think the best solution is for one large complex at the arena site. This way the entire facility could be used for a convention or show or what ever.
Convention Center/Library would be behind The Broadview actually.
The grassy area in front of Watkins Steel lot would be good frontage for a new Convention Center/Library building, nicely designed in some way!
I wonder, if it would be possible to add on to exploration place a small theater to house the childrens theater???
“The Arena has to exist on its own for now.”
Very true. On its own, at 15,000 seats. I hope its proponents make it work; it is 100% their responsibility to do so.
I was mistaken Tony, I want to keep Lawrence Dumont.
That area you described for a Convention Center is too radical. Property taken down is almost unimaginable to what the City holds dear.
The Bus Depot moving isn’t ever happening!
Century II won’t be sold completely. City won’t do it. They won’t let it be destroyed.
City could turn management over to a Casino group. But still have some control over events in the building.
I dont think it will…
as i posted above, there is only 1 event in june and july that would “qualify” for the new arena.
mrage…
I dont think CII will be destroyed… the city can lease it to them with tennant improvements on a 25 year lease. (thats what i would do) As a condition, the improvements would have to be approved via city council and maybe public imput.
When you say the “Property taken down is almost unimaginable to what the City holds dear”, are you meaning the land within my southern location??? I realize the bus depot and lofts arn’t moving, it was part of my hidden point in my comment.
Rest of that property south of the arena location, I don’t know.
I don’t see anything to prohibit your idea there. That’s not the right location to me.
We have a better place for a new Convention Center in my mind.
West of the River is more real possibility.
What do you think of my idea to put a small theater to absorb childrens theater at Exploration place?
Interesting idea Tony. I am told that there would be a real problem with Children’s Music Theater if we try to co-locate it with a casino. Moving that to Exp Place or nearby might make good sense. However, I DO think that Music Theater, Opera, Symphony etc could co-exist with a casino.
As for trying to tie a Conv center to their Arena why bother? Let their Arena sink or swim on its own. Just keep your powder dry for when they realize they don’t have that $23,611,000 reserve they promised would cover any deficits. Hold Joe! and the rest to his “They will do just fine without it” pledge.
Conv Center should be EAST of river to access the rest of downtown. There is lots of geography south of English.
Tony,
I have no opinion on the Children’s theather to Exploration Place. If someone wants to promote that plan, go ahead.
Contact Exploration Place and ask the County Commissioners.
Ben,
Until the City desires a new Convention Center, maybe its not worth speculating any location for it.
You may be correct about that Mrage. While a convention center might be good for attracting conventions and the money they bring the gutter ball they threw with the bowling tournament shows how little they care.
Maybe your arena should show us its value and get the bowlers and their $100 million.
Channel 12 has done a poll on the Arena. “News at 10″
KWCH poll shows people WANT a re-vote. It also shows a significant erosion of support the the arena due to all the changes. THAT is what the proponents are so afraid of.
Ben! Because the re-vote group has been telling the public lies about the arena and people are believing them.
Notice that I was also on KWCH at 10 too.
I’m not afraid of a re-vote, but I’m for common sense and a re-vote will do nothing but waste time and money.
Why are you so afraid of the downtown arena?
Joe! YOU are the one telling lies! I only use official County figures in my claims. YOU make up your numbers.
Let’s settle it with a re-vote. THAT IS WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT!
“Why are you so afraid of the downtown arena?” Because the County has told me it will need $23,611,000 to cover deficits and they have already spent that elsewhere. Because it will be a White Elephant that will saddle my community with unbudgeted costs. Because its 45% cost over-runs (County figures) is only a preview of what is to come.
If MY numbers are lies then you are calling your buddies in the County liars.
You say you are not afraid of a re-vote; we are having the casino vote anyway. PIGGYBACK THEM!
I’m not afraid of an arena, but I’m for common sense and YOUR arena will do nothing but waste time and money. LOTS OF MONEY!
Hey Joe??? Got any answers to Ben yet???
The county told you that it needs $23,611,000 to cover deficits and then it won’t because it spent it somewhere else? When did they personally tell you that?
The county made the best possible and reasonable projections of the breakdown cost of the arena. Keep in mind that this was all done prior to the site selection and design of the arena.
After the Citizen Design Committee and numerous public input of what the community would like to have with the downtown arena, the community input, by large wanted a two concourse arena, instead of one and by doing this, the county warned that this will increase the arena cost by $15 million. So they went ahead with it, based on the Citizens input.
Their preliminary budgets had only around $4 million for land acquisitions based on what the county figures to be fair market value of those land and buildings, but we know that didn’t turn out the way they thought and after lawsuits and independent audits of property values, the cost shot up to $12 million.
All in all, you have no merit to ask for a re-vote based on a budget figure for reserve funds. There was no promise nor that is not what the people voted for. The reserve fund is still there, but it just down to $14 million instead of your $23 million that you say the county personally promise to you, which isn’t true.
Don’t worry Ben! It’s not going to cause you any hardship or anybody else. You can beat a the horse all you want to try to kill it when meaningless budget figures from before and after, but all in all, the downtown arena will still cost less than the $184.5 million that people voted for, it still has a contingency fund for any other cost overruns and it still has a maintenance and operation reserve fund. No special taxes nor an extension of the current one is going to happen.
If that starts to happen, let me know and I’ll join you, but I can’t now, because the County has been very reasonable, transparent, and informative about the Downtown Arena. I have to give them credit for that and to keep the cost inline with the expected revenue budget. And one last thing, there hasn’t been any naming rights yet, that alone can make up the difference to your reserve fund. So no worries.
The lies I refer to come from the organizing members of the re-vote group. I can spell them out one by one if you like, but I’ll just be repeating myself yet again.
Joe, why do you twist yourself into a pretzel to support something that government has business doing, if you are one who believes in the principles of limited government?
Until you can answer that, I ask that you please refrain from calling yourself a libertarian.
Joe! People did NOT vote for a 184.5 million Arena – THAT IS ONE OF YOUR LIES! They voted for a package that totaled 184.5 that included 19.4 million parking, 9 million infrastructure, 24 million deficit reserve, 9 million pavilions. The Arena itself (land, demolition, construction) was 123 million. THESE ARE NOT LIES; I CAN BACK THEM UP WITH COUNTY FIGURES!
Call accounting meaningless all you want Joe!; keep on lying all you want Joe! BUT! When the time comes – and the County has already said it will – to come back to the taxpayers to cover YOUR deficits expect a firestorm. EXPECT YOUR LIES TO BE THROWN BACK IN YOUR FACE!
HOW CAN YOU CALL A 45% INCREASE “IN LINE WITH THE BUDGET”? THAT IS ANOTHER JOE! LIE!
“There was no promise nor that is not what the people voted for.” Sorry Joe!, but it WAS a promise and I kept a copy.
YOU FEAR A RE-VOTE! WOLVERTON FEARS A RE-VOTE! THAT IS WHY UNRUH TOLD THE CITIZENS TO “FEEL FREE TO VOICE YOUR OPINIONS BUT GO TO HELL!”
YOUR Arena will be built. My family will pay a lot more for it than you will. Enjoy your Communism. And, when it has problems don’t complain when I gloat.
A re-vote would not be all that costly; we are having a ballot on local issues (casino, liquor, perhaps some others) anyway. WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF?
Of course, I KNOW the answer to that!
“The lies I refer to come from the organizing members of the re-vote group. I can spell them out one by one if you like, but I’ll just be repeating myself yet again.”
I would like to hear every “lie” you speak of. Because, I, Ben, Jwink and Mrage have reviewed about every one of your points and have proved them as truth. So, go ahead, list them, and we will rebut them one by one.
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/story/83916.html
Even the Eagle has a poll showing 2-to-1 favor a re-vote.
JOE! WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF?
Re-vote please.
Where or where did Joe Williams go???
The re-vote won’t happen!
Let those feelings go!
Polls don’t matter!
Contracts do! They were signed, no tearing them up.
If torn up, contract penalties will take more County money that isn’t budgeted today!
Millions of dollars in contract penalties and still lose the money already spent. HOK is giving no refunds!
If this community would stop talking about the small arena failing, we should have a louder voice, make the arena best way possible.
Demand businesses here support the expansion of seats. Fans want the best events to happen in downtown Wichita.
Doubters have to stop thinking, they will never go to arena events.
That’s a choice when financial’s are taken into consideration, but that feeling can’t be faith.
To denouce the arena completely, your damning the whole community. Damning the County you live in.
The sales tax was best way to pay for it.
Future deficits might happen if the County doesn’t have business partners or can’t attract worthwhile events. Fans fail to fill the arena.
Desire a better arena with business partners.
We had to replace the Coliseum and the arena downtown is in a better location.
The challenge of parking downtown is real but we as a community can adapt too. Every downtown Stadium or Arena in this country has challenges about parking.
We want the surface parking to be free as well.
Stick to wanting a better arena. The bettered arena with partners has less chance of operation deficits.
Believing the tax won’t end or future tax increases are sure to happen is stupid and defeatist today.
Until the sales tax doesn’t end or a tax increases happens, complain then!
County has to create a regional sized arena for Wichita’s sake.
Business in Wichita has to step and make the arena plan better with more seats.
Mrage – I have agreed that they will build your Arena. I agree that the Commissioners will tell the majority to go to Hell. I just want all this on the record. As for the rest of your stuff (bigger arena etc) that is YOUR problem, not mine.
And my denouncing your Arena is NOT damning my community. It is a last-ditch attempt to save my community from that albatross.
It is the County stating that it will have deficits; are you calling them liars? They are the PROPONENTS of your arena!
Ben,
No one can move your attention from those details. You can be argumentative forever that way.
The albatross is one Epic Center building when there should have been two.
The boathouse, didn’t rent boats.
The Lawrence -Dumont situation, stadium failed, causing apathy. Royals failed we didn’t want to see players called up there.
WaterWalk paid for, yet not constructed in a timely manner.
We have things created not used as described.
I totally agree with idea of the downtown arena.
That’s what you don’t agree with.
There are more issues why you don’t like the arena. There is no tenant.
There is no big tenant in Tulsa at their BOK Center. There isn’t one in Oklahoma City at the Ford Center.
Maybe the Seattle Sonics NBA basketball team moves there. The OKC owner said possibly to Kansas City which surprised me. If Seattle community doesn’t help construct a new arena there.
If the Oklahoma City community didn’t vote for the Ford Center, they wouldn’t have received the Big 12 basketball tournament last season and again in 2009.
They are on the list to get FIRST AND SECOND ROUND March Madness games, in 2010, I think.
The choice for their community, the arena is a huge positive.
I’m glad we’re not trying to construct an arena for a professional sports tenant.
It allows events in the downtown arena to define Wichita and this County.
It’s a place where we invite events to happen. We have pride in how noisy fans in Wichita can get.
The Coliseum location is worse for this effort. That area can support 5,000 to 10,000 seats facility.
Downtown should have the ability to attract more people to events.
Downtown could attract 18,000 people in floor seats. I don’t care what number of people are in luxury boxes.
To get some events, it demands 18,000 floor seats.
You talking positive about the arena to anyone in the street helps. That is your task.
You can help create the bad spirit in Wichita by always being negative about it.
Zip your Communism suggestions would be a positive thing.
There was never going to be a professional or business entity starting idea of the arena.
The County has a business interest to build it. That’s their right to do it after we agreed with the vote!
Just think, what if the County wasn’t sued about handicap issues. There wasn’t a push to fix the Coliseum in the first place.
With new arena’s around Wichita and the State of Kansas, we would only have the old Coliseum?
A problem allowed this community to change our fate.
“There was never going to be a professional or business entity starting idea of the arena.”
What about Heartman and his Park City Arena for HIS football team?
I hope that AT&T or one of the other major sponsors of the Thunder pay Heartman a few million to build his arena to 7.5k-8.5k seats so that the Thunder can play there and NOT at the Arena…
That should make tickets much cheaper and allow me to take my family to a Thunder game.
As it is, some friends i have in the entertainment busienss have said that ticket prices for anything in the new arena would go up as much as 25%-35% because of the increased fees. Not to mention trying to find parking in downtown.
Tony,
Wink is in a bad spot with his arena football team. They exist today, in no conference.
Here is some trouble for Wink as well.
SMG has ideas for arena football possibly in the downtown arena.
They have ability to place an arena football team in some legitimate AFL conference.
I don’t like arena football.
Why would AT&T brand Wink’s arena and not the downtown arena?
What facility has a better chance for events to be on national TV?
Let’s say never for Wink’s Park City arena with any event out there.
His 5000 seat facility isn’t comparable to the downtown arena with 15,000 seats.
The Thunder is a more legitimate future tenant in Wink’s arena. IF they fail to increase a fan base downtown.
They are signed with the County right now to play downtown.
I want college basketball games on national TV happening in the downtown arena.
If some music group sells a concert DVD that happened downtown.
Wink might think about partnering with Park City to buy the Coliseum.
I won’t spend his money. But that $25 Million amount is good down payment for a better designed facility.
Add “dirt shows” to his arena idea. Rodeo’s and Monster Trucks, motor cross events happen every year, could happen more often than hockey or arena football seasons.
County has to get rid of the Coliseum. Wink and Park City buy the lot, County will likely tear the Coliseum completely down.
Maybe his location is better, because he want’s to create the soccer fields too. Park City has its chance to own their own arena that could have 10,000 to 12,000 seats.
They could build it with 5000 seats and still do a larger variety of events, adding dirt shows.
If a 12,000 seat arena is made out there, all the better.
“You can help create the bad spirit in Wichita by always being negative about it.” Gettting ready to blame me when YOUR Arena fails?
“You talking positive about the arena to anyone in the street helps. That is your task.” NO! It is NOT my task to lie about your Arena.
“To get some events, it demands 18,000 floor seats.” YOUR problem; not mine.
“No one can move your attention from those details.” TRUE! Details are important. Details are what make the difference between success and failure!
“They are on the list to get FIRST AND SECOND ROUND March Madness games, in 2010, I think.” WILL YOUR ARENA? It will be open; I expect NCAA. If not, I will want to know why not.
“SMG has ideas for arena football possibly in the downtown arena.” BACK UP THAT CLAIM!
There was once a time when, before engaging in public discourse, participants would ensure they had the ability to form a coherent thought, not to mention a correctly-punctuated, complete sentence.
Mrage demonstrates that these days are long gone.
Mrage, please stop posting until you learn these things. You embarrass the fine people of Wichita and Sedgwick County.
Actually his arena is only 4700 seats. But with the revenue bonds and tax abatements from Park City, he’s sitting pretty with his government sponsored arena.
That aside. I still think it’s a good thing. The more arenas the better. Makes Wichita a more attractive place with the added amenities. Tulsa is building a 4300 seat arena, and we will beat them by a few hundred seats.
Park City can’t buy Britt Brown, because it cannot afford it. Not only would they have to spend at around $80 million to buy it, they would have to put that much in renovations to make it ADA compliant and updated to code. You think Park City has $160 million to spend? It has hardly any revenue coming in and it can hardly take care of it’s own place. Just look at the roads or just go a block west and east from I-135 to see how many abandon places there are. Park City gave away too much in tax giveaways for decades to come. Very poor planning on their part.
But Hartman is a good business person and good business people take advantage of things like that.
That aside! A proposition to you Mrage. I just heard that Mark Cuban (although I personally believe he’s a crook and a major prick), he is getting investors together to start up an alternative to the NFL. Instead of focusing on WSU football and Shocker University, I would think it would be good to go after this new league and try to get Wichita in on it as a football team in the league and we can use Cessna Stadium for it.
This alternative Football league will not work in markets that already have an NFL team or a strong college football presence. Wichita is a good spot to get in. Get in with your investors and lets see what we can do. Hell, maybe even Hartman might scrap his arena football for a chance to get in on a new football league.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6863932?MSNHPHCP>1=10035
Interesting idea Joe! I would like seeing what investors would say about putting their money into such a venture.
Mrage – GO FOR IT! You have the investors; get them on board!
A comment about Hartman and/or Park City buying Britt Brown: Why should they bail out the County? They have their own land.
I still suspect that as Hartman’s idea takes shape we will see it come to a size that will accomodate BOTH arena football and hockey.
We shall see.
By the way – the Eagle on-line poll is running 65% YES (re-vote) 31% NO and 3% don’t care.
I think the petitions are running something like 10-to-1 in favor of re-vote.
It’s too small for hockey.
Well Ben! Keep praying to God until your knees rub raw and maybe the stop the downtown arena campaign will go your way.
Joe! Read my words! What part of “as hartman’s idea takes shape we will see it come to a size” did you not comprehend? I expect it to be larger than 4700 when all is said and done. Why is it too small for hockey?
Joe! I expect it to be built. I have said that. I just hope you people can make your Arena sufficiently successful that it does not become a permanent drain on County funds as the County has acknowledged it will be.
I’m just glad the polls have been done and published and make it real clear why YOU ARE SO AFRAID OF A RE-VOTE!
Ben,
>SMG has ideas for arena football possibly in the downtown arena.” BACK UP THAT CLAIM!
Bob Hanson told me that on the phone. I have no other evidence than that.
I think Wink has to consider some relationship with SMG. He would get that purchasing the Coliseum.
I have no idea what NCAA tournaments our 15,000 seat arena could get.
Hanson said, if WSU makes the March tournament, thats likely to trigger a local First Round game here, maybe.
Maybe if KSU makes March Madness First Round game, could be played downtown.
Won’t ever be First Round game for KU.
More available to women’s tournament games if they want off site facilities.
I simply want our arena to bid for events Tulsa, Omaha and Oklahoma City want.
They want FIRST AND SECOND ROUND, Mens basketball games.
NCAA is moving those around.
Its highly unlikely Wichita would ever get FIRST AND SECOND ROUND March games.
I want our arena to desire the Big 12 tournament or MVC tournament, if it ever moves around in the future.
I can see what 18,000 seat arena’s get. Better college basketball events on national TV.
Forget the rest, you and the arena are like ice and flame.
You’ll damn the arena to anybody, anywhere. County sucks for trying.
I’m sorry you feel that way. You weren’t lied to.
“Zip your Communism suggestions would be a positive thing.”
You became a communist just by opposing a foolish arena plan, Ben?
Jeez, McCarthy must be spinning in his grave.
Joe,
Wink and Park City could afford their own 10,000 seat arena with dirt show ability.
Not pay the County for the Coliseum, they will destroy it.
Pay to build an $80 Million dollar facility is doable for Wink, Park City and whatever partners they could desire to find.
Maybe Phil Ruffin might get a piece of it.
He’ll have incentive for events close to his dog track/casino.
Does Ruffin invest in arena’s, I don’t know. It won’t be majority investment.
County would help make that deal work, they don’t want financial responsibility of the new Coliseum. SMG would market their facility for events.
SMG would have Wink’s arena football to place in a AFL conference.
Wink should want a better arena, no matter how his idea started.
It doesn’t seem right to me, just create a facility for arena football.
That’s area has supported a larger arena.
Wink has made his own arena decisions without the County talking about what happens to the Coliseum.
About Mark Cuban and whatever football program, I believe in College football too much.
That program brought to life again at WSU increases scholarships and better housing near campus.
Semi pro football, doesn’t sound good to me.
I have no idea if that’s a viable idea for Cessna Stadium.
Some owners of small sports leagues own all the teams, but place them in selected cities.
There is talk about an Arena Football League team coming to Wichita for the downtown arena, because AFL requires that the arenas be at least 12,000 seats, which Britt Brown is not, so it put Wichita out of the market, but with the new Downtown Arena, it could happen, but we will have to see if Hartman will like that, I’m sure he wouldn’t want the competition.
Yeah! A dirt floor arena is what we need for the soon to be former Britt Brown space. Monster Trucks, autocross, bull riding and etc. It would be best to have it an open seat track and floor though for those events. That is what people like. The Kansas Coliseum was originally design as an agriculture venue. It will be good to turn it back to that, but remove the roof of Britt Brown for rodeos and autocross. The Kansas Coliseum complex already has RV lots and we can extend that for more RV’s. We should also put in a quarter mile track or possibly a short oval race track for sport bike and short truck racing.
“Hanson said” … let him say that publically and for the record. An unsubstantiated rumor carries zero weight.
“Hanson said, if WSU makes the March tournament, thats likely to trigger a local First Round game here, maybe.” WRONG! The sites are selected BEFORE the teams are. Doesn’t Hanson know that?
“You weren’t lied to.” Let me count the ways … parking … 24 million reserve fund … 45% cost overruns …
“Its highly unlikely Wichita would ever get FIRST AND SECOND ROUND March games.” Gee, how many times have I told you that?
Mrage – I have a suggestion of how you can get your 18,000 seats. Interested?
“There is talk about an Arena Football League team coming to Wichita for the downtown arena,”
Is that more Bob Hanson unsubstantiated rumor?
As for dirt, etc, at Britt Brown – GO FOR IT! Mrage has the investors.
Different topic. Does anyone know the story about the penguins that died at the zoo? I sure hope it is isolated. The Zoo is a wonderful crown jewel. Many of us voluntarily write checks to support it.
Ben,
Those aren’t MY 18,000 seats. Ours!
Please accept you and your family will sit in those downtown arena seats someday.
What’s your thoughts. Write the County…wait, that’s not your job.
So tell it. I want business here to desire those increase in seats. Local corporates with products to sell on national TV.
Bigger the arena in seats, better chance events could be on national TV.
I’m just a consumer, community activist to want arena events, the best we can get.
I’m saving for stadiums!
Could WSU football be on national TV, I have no idea, today. I desire to improve WSU academically as the first consideration.
Improve the event facilities in Wichita, because we’re only going to have a new downtown arena.
We will still have a less used Cessna Stadium. Lawrence-Dumont, who knows, until the facility is fixed. I want to add a high school stadium for the city league.
What happens to the Coliseum is a serious question. We all have to be concerned about it.
“What’s your thoughts. Write the County” DONE. Unruh has said he doesn’t care.
“Please accept you and your family will sit in those downtown arena seats someday.” PERHAPS. For what event? Tell me that – WHAT EVENT?
“What happens to the Coliseum is a serious question. We all have to be concerned about it.” I AM concerned about it. But, I have no control over what the County Commissioners decide.
“I want business here to desire those increase in seats.” THEN DO IT!
I believe that Hartman will use his arena to attract high school sports, but he will have to compete against Salina, Topeka and Hutchinson who ferociously bid for those events.
I have always thought we should make more use of Cessna for HS football.
I don’t expect response from Unruh at all. He cares, in some ways!
To get the County doing anything it has to be a personal proposal in front of the commission.
A personal and detailed financial proposal in paperwork.
Buchanan has responded by email. I write him and Kolb together about increasing the arena seats. Have done so for months.
Should the City use any funds for the arena if they sell city property a Casino could buy?
It’s in the best interest for Wichita to have the larger arena for our long term use.
I thought Tulsa bidding for the Big 12 tournament would be jolt to the County. Look at SMG doing that for them.
SMG is doing what for us?
Hartman wanting high school sports, arena football…
What if he could help construct a new Coliseum out there. Add the dirt shows as the key tenant. Everything else can happen.
Large enough facility if the Thunder want to move from downtown in the future.
Park City should want the facility. County using SMG to manage it, their not working against the downtown arena.
The rule for arena football league with 12,000 seats, that’s the sized seating a new Coliseum should be.
Wink can still use the original area for soccer fields. His indoor high school sport desires, the multiple basketball court facility or volley ball, that gym could still be the soccer field area.
He would be KING of ALL SPORTS for in Park City.
The lead investor in facilities Park City would love to have.
Those will help grow the community.
Nah! Park City is a Pit Stop. People always talk about how businesses are going there, but all those businesses want Interstate Access, they could care less about Park City.
For example, Hayes, Don Hattan, Alef’s Harley-D’s, Optima Bus and etc all give Wichita address, not Park City.
HS Football at Cessna. I think it would be very interesting to have high-lighted games there each weekend. City League Friday night and Chisolm Trail Saturday afternoons.
Pick the first few before the season begins using rivalries. As the season progresses choose games that are pivotal to the standings. Generally – with Chisolm Trail – try to pick teams from opposite sides of Wichita. Example – Goddard vs Circle or Maize vs Campus.
Make them like Bowl games; a big deal to be chosen.
Joe! The PO Box address doesn’t matter. The jobs and taxes are in Park City.
“He cares, in some ways!” HOW?
“Buchanan has responded by email. I write him and Kolb together about increasing the arena seats. Have done so for months.” HOW HAVE THEY RESPONDED? DOING ANYTHING?
“SMG is doing what for us?” YOU TELL ME. ARENA FOOTBALL LIKE HANSON TOLD YOU?
“Should the City use any funds for the arena if they sell city property a Casino could buy?” NO, THEY SHOULD NOT. THE CITY HAS OTHER NEEDS. Library, convention center, arts, etc. There is more to life than basketball.
Actually, Ben, people who work at these companies and who own them live in Wichita.
Plus, they don’t pay taxes to Park City. Park City gave them all decades of tax abatements. The only thing Park City can receive is maybe a tiny sales tax from the sales of some of their stuff. But most of that goes to the State, then county (including downtown arena) and then Park City gets a tiny cut. Not from Hayes Co though, because they sell to Wal-Mart. Park City also has the same sales tax rate as Wichita, so there is no tax savings in sales tax.
Park City has no money. That is the reason why they did the hostel maneuver and annex the Greyhound Park, because they need money, but watch the courts take that way from them.
All in All, they conducted poor planning. With Wal-Mart opening up in Wichita on 53rd Street, that will take away even more business away from Leekers and Park City. Reason why Park City was against the Wal-Mart to be built there. Now they are against Wichita having Sunday Liquor sales, because one liquor store in Park City does good business on Sundays, but that will end for them as well.
Face it! Park City isn’t progressive at all. Cities like Derby and Andover are. Derby has big box retailers like Lowes, Dillions, Super Wal-Mart and they are getting a Kohls. Andover has a huge medical park, big box retailers, Home Deposit coming there soon, businesses that don’t get tax abatements (reason why Andover school district doing so well). Andover is even getting the attention of Lawerance Kansas, who their city planner is helping Andover’s growth.
What does Park City have? A cigarette chain smoking bitter mean spirited bomb thrower who has burned so many bridges with other cities, the county and the state that she has nothing left. A total unprofessional and an embarrassment.
“hostel”? Isn’t that the cheap place I stayed in Europe? “Hostile” perhaps?
Actually, I don’t know all that much about Park City; I seldom get up that way. As you know, I live in Wichita.
I favor putting Sunday sales on the ballot. Not to try to stop them; I am in favor. Rather, to endorse it. (Even though I am not impacted by the issue)
I figure since we are having the election for the casino; why not clear up other issues at the same time?