It was good of President Bush to tour Greensburg today and spend so much time visiting with and encouraging residents. The federal government’s response to the disaster has been prompt, effective and much appreciated.
Meanwhile, Gov. Kathleen Sebelius’ complaints to the White House about National Guard readiness have been portrayed in some quarters as a cheap-shot partisan sniping. But as a New York Times article points out, all 50 governors signed a letter last year expressing concern about the loss of Guard resources diverted to Iraq and Afghanistan and asking for state units to be reequipped. And two reviews, including one by the Government Accountability Office, raised similar concerns earlier this year.
The Times’ reporting also pointed to a delayed response time in the Greensburg tornado’s aftermath: "For nearly two days after the storm, there was an unmistakable emptiness in Greensburg, a lack of heavy machinery and an army of responders. By Sunday afternoon, more than a day and a half after the tornado, only about half of the Guard troops who would ultimately respond were in place. It was not until Sunday night that significant numbers of military vehicles started to arrive, many streaming in a long caravan from Wichita about 100 miles away."
As we said in today’s editorial, the equipment shortfall in Greensburg hasn’t added up to a crisis. But Sebelius and the other governors are on target in their concerns.
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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163 Comments
Oh boy…here we go again, whining about the guard not being there DURING the storm, or at least within seconds afterwards.
“Delayed response time”??? What the hell? Does the NYTimes really think that units of the National Guard are dressed, outfitted, loaded up and standing on every street corner, waiting to respond to something? It takes time to organize people, to cut orders, to gather, to arrange routes/support/food/logistics. That doesn’t happen in 20 seconds.
A little realism would be in order. Granted, this will be one more “attack FEMA/Bush/everyone exercise, but for God’s sake, recognize the logistics in trying to mobilize a battalion.
The Dems have undoubtedly been waiting on a disaster to be able to play the National Guard card. Can’t you just imagine the call the guv got from DNC telling her not to forget to mention it.
Using a disaster like this is politics at its worse.
OK so lets see, our wonderful governor knew we might come up short on National guard equipment during a disaster over a year ago, and she didn’t formulate a plan to compensate for the shortage.. I find that to be very irresponsible and put peoples lives in danger.. her job is to serve the people of Kansas.. not Bitch at the White house that is why we have senators..
“…the equipment shortfall in Greensburg hasn’t added up to a crisis.”
Why wasn’t this the headline?
Those that are criticizing Governor Sebelius should doubt check the second paragraph of the article – all FIFTY state governors signed the letter to Bush regarding the shortage of NG equipment.
It was a bi-partisan issue and concern.
BG – I am interested in hearing what you think she should have done. For a major disaster, I thought the NG was the plan. What other resources do we have for a catastrophe of this proportion, besides the NG?
The point is that although we can handle a single small disaster we will be in trouble if we have multiple hits. The Governor’s job includes getting OUR equipment back for OUR state.
BG – we have senators? HA!
I’d like to see our senators and representatives get the money to replace OUR equipment added to Bush’s war bill.
Good point TDT. I remember MANY ads for the NG showing various types of disaster response. I don’t know that I recall it being advertised as an invasion force.
I wonder if we want to bear the expense and resultant possible loss of civil liberties from having a larger armed military force in our state, ready to respond in a moment’s notice to whatever crisis a governor or president perceives.
that is my point, she could not count on the NG, so she should have developed another plan.. maybe use KDOT Vehicles or have private contractors somewhere in the plan. after Katrina most companys and states have an elaborate plan in case of disaster. our company evaluates our plans monthly or if people leave the company, we change their duty’s to someone else Immediatly. If there is one thing that we should have learned from Katrina is that you can not just rely on the Government and that includes the NG.. I knew when everybody started blaming Bush that we hadn’t learned a damn thing just pointed fingers and this kind of proves it. that is my point, this is not a political matter..
anon – So you think we should keep our NG at this reduced level, even after the war?
BG – Private contractors and KDOT are there, and are being used. It seems she planned just as you would have.
But I think raising awareness now is exactly what is needed. It’s not like this war is over, Bush will continue to raid the NG for resources, further depleting the NG. This year we were able to cope, but what happens next year, or the year after?
The current estimate is that the KNG will have UP TO two thirds of the equipment replaced by 2013.
Even with my relatively poor math skills, that is six years from now.
TDT,And if the storms struck three towns, or a substantial town, would y’all have been prepared? Prepared to point at Washington… MAYBE.
Good point SolDevVB. What if that storm had roared into Wichita? We would have needed all the equipment we could muster.
“What if that storm had roared into Wichita? We would have needed all the equipment we could muster.”
Posted by: WSClark | May 09, 2007 at 02:13 PM
The equipment from our Parks Department and street/Road equipment is probably larger in inventory than most National Guard Units.
“Using a disaster like this is politics at its worse.”
Posted by: outlander | May 09, 2007 at 01:14 PM
I agree. In this same vein, Bush should have stayed in D.C. and tried to figure out how he get our troops and equipment home from Iraq.
Heh, good one, Steven.
Bush knew this was the only place he could be seen in public without getting booed.
“The equipment from our Parks Department and street/Road equipment is probably larger in inventory than most National Guard Units.”
I don’t think so. especially if they got wiped out.
The Kansas National Guard’s decimation of equipment appropriate for disaster relief is not a political issue; it’s a *POLICY* issue!
It’s hard to fathom that Shrub’s half-a-Trillion-dollar Iraqi adventure has been conducted on the cheap, but that’s the fact. As the letter signed by *ALL 50* governors (Republic and Democrat) indicated, mobilized NG troops took their equipment to Iraq and (some of them) came back without the tools to do their jobs.
The same storm system that spawned Friday night’s tornados in Western Kansas caused near-disastrous flooding a couple of days later in Eastern Kansas. A little more rain in the East and there’d have been twin disasters and a horribly under-equipped National Guard, due to the way George WMD Bush has sapped not just the NG’s strength, but America’s.
Tony Snowjob’s cut-from-whole-cloth lie that Sebelius had “never requested replacement” of Iraqi-deployed equipment should offend anyone — Republic or Democrat — who has a modicum of respect for the truth. The White House tried to make it “political,” but the issue is nothing other than a failure of policy.
I watched the people of Greensburg respond to the visit of Prez Bush. They were happy to see him, gladly shook his hand, some cried on his shoulder and hugged him.
I just heard on the news from one of the victims that they were very encouraged by his visit and it gave them a lot of comfort.
All appeared to be reassured that the infrastructure of Greensburg would be rebuilt. The historic old homes are gone but the tradition remains.
Equipment of the type you are talking about is abundant in our area. Look at construction companies and the equipment they possess. We might be short a few Humvees but we can probably eke by.
Steven, Cap and WS you need to let go of the anger and hate of Bush. It only damages the container holding it and the person it is directed at doesn’t even care.
I don’t hate the sinner, KSgrm.
I hate his sin.
You are funny Grm. Look at your irrational hatred of Bill Clinton.
You might want to remember that he left office six plus years ago.
By the way, are you sticking with that story that your son left the Navy in 1992 because of Bill Clinton’s cuts in military pay and equipment?
Seems to me that we had the same type of photo op after Katrina, with the same rah-rah words spoken. As kfg would say, how’s that workin for ya?
I’d be very curious to find out if the people who spoke with the president were handpicked. That seems to be the norm these days.
Uh, yeah, Grm, I was wondering about that too.
How do you explain that your son left because of REAGAN-BUSH’s cuts to the military?
Or was this originally an e-mail that you decided to give a personal flourish?
Why are dissenters called Bush haters just because we question the man? I remember Republicans hated and still hate Bill Clinton to the point they foam at the mouth. But yet they are entitled to their continued hate for Clinton?
Why don’t the Republicans let go of that hate and the container it is carried in? Ksgrm is right though – the Republicans don’t care when the criticisms are directed at them. Their arrogance won’t allow them to stoop to think they might actually be wrong.
“The equipment from our Parks Department and street/Road equipment is probably larger in inventory than most National Guard Units.”
I don’t think so. especially if they got wiped out.
Posted by: Ben | May 09, 2007 at 02:37 PM
Wiped out like Greensburg’s, maybe?
By that logic there are also National Guard units in Wichita that could get wiped out.
We’re not even short of HMMV’s. Take a drive by the NG armories in town. Their lots are full of trucks, HMMV’s, ambulances, generators, and so on.
There’s no “equipment crisis” in Greensburg because there’s plenty of equipment in Greensburg. And people. No shortage, no problem, just some political pandering.
You know I was just talking to my son and I reported his departure date wrong. He left the Navy in 1994. I was working yesterday and blogging at the same time.Even in that short time Clinton had made many changes to the military.
My son did verify that 2/3rds of the nuclear fast attack subs were mothballed in Bremerton, WA before he got out. He spent his last few months removing the reactors from these subs.
Cap I looked at your numbers and they didn’t add up the way you told it. The balanced budget Clinton bragged about was indeed paid for by the cut in military spending. Fact.
On the coverage from Greensburg (ABC) I was looking at they weren’t actually broadcasting the conversations so I don’t think it was staged. The one person they talked to afterwards was very positive about the vision
And by the way I don’t hate Clinton. That would be giving him way to much power over my life. I have no respect for him or for the other half of Billary. He might have been out of office for 6 years but he has never stopped campaigning so he can get back in the Oval Office.
Whatever, Grm. If this was the first time that you did this, I would give you the benefit of the doubt, but this is far from that. I fact check most of the stuff you post as fact because it usually is wrong.
How about a link to the story about the California school that segregated boys and girls because the Muslims demanded it?
after the 99 tornado hit Haysville, Gore came for a visit and the people he visited with were hand picked. I was picked but laughted and said I’d talk with him if he was working with a shovel.
There is no equipment shortage; just politics. By the way, Guard equipment is owned by the DoD. It is not ours. 85 percent the equipment is available, it is not needed. She was planning politics pure and simple. Sen. Betts comment about the Guard should have been there that night was just plain loony!
Yeah, Bop, that is why all FIFTY governors signed a letter to Bush expressing their concern over NG equipment and readiness.
Unless somehow magically all fifty became Democrats, the concern was BI-PARTISAN.
Christ.
Ksgrm–
I looked up national defense spending for the time period you spoke of.
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy06/sheets/hist03z1.xls
National defense(in nominal, not constant dollars–billion)Bush (Father of Worst President Ever)
1992 293,85021.6 percent of Fed budget
Clinton
1993 291,08620.7 percent of Fed budget
2001 294,49516.4 percent of Fed budget
Bush (Worst President Ever)2002 304,88217.3 percent of Fed budget
Clinton’s first defense budget was 99 percent of Bush I’s budget the year before.
Clinton’s last defense budget was 97 percent of Worst President Ever’s first budget.
So, there were some small cuts going on. But very small percentage-wise.
Meanwhile, the spending just on Iraq is wild insanity. The total may be approaching HALF A TRILLION.
And Ksgrm is so concerned about supporting our troops, she’s not cashing in her Social Security checks.
Right, Ksgrm?
“Bopbottle,” you’re playing with statistics. 85% of equipment includes Air National Guard planes and support gear. The key statistic is equipment in Kansas able to respond to the appropriate problem.
Show me the fuzzy math that rectifies your “85%” figure with these facts: “Ordinarily, the Guard would have about 660 Humvees and more than 30 large trucks to traverse difficult terrain and transport heavy equipment. When the tornado struck, the Guard had about 350 Humvees and 15 large trucks, said Maj. Gen. Tod Bunting, the state’s adjutant general. The Guard would also usually have 170 medium-scale tactical vehicles used to transport people and supplies — but now it has fewer than 30, he said. On the other hand, General Bunting said, it had more cargo trucks than it needed.”
Show your work.
lets see 5% of Fed Budget comes out to be a hell of allot of money..
Capn. put it in dollars for us..
BG–
That’s the trouble with you CONs.
You don’t understand that you can’t cut the deficit except by reducing spending.
Maybe Clinton mothballed some old ships because they were GASP! an unnecessary expense.
Clinton’s Cuts:
Of the 305,000 employees removed from the federal payroll, 286,000 (or 90%) were military cuts.The statistics for America’s defense during the Clinton years reveal the deep-seated animosity of the administration toward those who served in the military. The Army was cut from 18 divisions to 12. The Navy was reduced from 546 ships to 380. Air Force flight squadrons were cut from 76 to 50.
“The Navy was reduced from 546 ships to 380″
That’s two thirds, right?
Clinton’s cuts were so bad that they not only helped balance the budget but they were virtually identical to the Republican Presidents’ before and after him.
CapnAmerica, are you advocating spending cuts? If so, I can barely believe it! What a happy day!
Anon–
You must not read my posts much because I’m totally gung-ho spending cuts.
We can start by getting the hell out of Iraq.
2 billion a week, not including the long-term health care of our wounded vets.
Next step is get rid of Bush and his increase of government spending by almost ten percent A YEAR, faster than any post-war President including LBJ.
And speaking of long-term care of vets, RepubliCON still hasn’t responded to this simple question:
As far as “nanny” government goes, you still haven’t explained why you have to buy health insurance for your prescription drugs but you are a disabled vet.
Your drugs relating to your injury should be free of charge.
Explain?
By the way, Capn, in what year did Clinton cut the budget? My reading of table B-78 of the Economic Report of the President show no year since 1955 in which total federal spending has declined from the previous year.
Unless I overlooked something.
Another instance of using the media to pass on liberal lies:
“In case you missed it, this week, there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died—an entire town destroyed,” the Democratic presidential candidate said in a speech to 500 people packed into a sweltering Richmond art studio for a fundraiser.
Obama mentioned the disaster in Greensburg, Kan., in saying he had been told by the office of Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius that the state’s National Guard had been depleted by its commitment to the Iraq War.
“Turns out that the National Guard in Kansas only had 40 percent of its equipment and they are having to slow down the recovery process in Kansas,” Obama said, his shirt sleeves rolled up and his head glistening with sweat.
No shortage of equipment. Sebelius was just on TV admitting just that.
I think your advocacy for spending cuts is great, CapnAmerica!
Besides the war, which spending is it you would cut?
WSClark–
Hehehee. Good one. It’s not even a third.
But Clinton scuttled 2/3 of the Navy SOUNDS so much worse, doesn’t it.
The “information” that Republican posted comes from a really nasty reich-wing book by a Gen. Patterson entitled “Dereliction of Duty.”
How about that segregated school link there, Grm?
I still maintain that nuclear subs were cut by this amount.
Numbers can say anything you want them to say.
“Ten thousand people died”
How about a link for that one?
Anon–
Inflation went up faster than spending.
It’s like if your paycheck goes up 2 percent from last year, but inflation goes up 6 percent.
You’re getting “more” money but actually you’re getting paid less than you were last year.
To see the real effect of spending, you have to look at the national debt as a percentage of the Gross Domestic Product.
That’s how much our government owes compared to how much we produce.
Here’s a good link that visualizes it:
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
As far as spending cuts . . . hell, make it across the board.
Cut everything by a set amount.
“Turns out that the National Guard in Kansas only had 40 percent of its equipment”
OK, let’s look at that:
Humvees: 350/660 = 53%Large Trucks: 15/30 = 50%Tactical vehicles: 30/170 = 18%
Average of %s: 40%
This according to Maj. Gen Todd Bunting of the KNG.
Your source for the “Ten thousand people died”?
And George said:
Hi, I’m from the gummit and I’m here to help you.
…Just the way I help those folks on the Guff Coast
I see now, CapnAmerica. Is that what they call “real” spending?
The debt is produced by two factors, isn’t it? Spending alone doesn’t determine the debt. It’s the relation to the government’s revenue that determines the debt from one year to the next.
The Democrats have controlled congress since January but they have not made any move to put money in for equipment for the National Guard? They need to answer WHY NOT?
How many difficult-terrain HMMV’s do you need to get into a town on a cleared US highway? When their neighbors have already cleared the streets?
Nope, no dump trucks or bulldozers ANYWHERE in Kansas but in NG stock….
“Tactical vehicles”=combat vehicles. Yeah, we really need some APC’s and mobile artillery. Every cleanup should have some.
Obama’s “10,000 people died” speech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc_WKBymCEY
Sebelius admitting that there was and is no problem getting Greensburg what it needed:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070509/D8P0H7DG0.html
Pure posturing and pandering.
I did a little research on Grm’s contention that Clinton cut two thirds of the US submarine fleet. By the way, all US Navy subs are nuclear.
18 Ohio Class49 Los Angeles Class3 Seawolf Class2 Virginia Class.
13 LA Class have been decommissioned, while 4 Virginia class are under construction and 5 more are in the planning (on order)stages.
Doing a little math indicates a net loss of 4 submarines out of a total of 81 (commissioned, planned or under construction)
That would be less than a five percent reduction.
Dear Clark,
Nuclear submarines is a subject that I know a little about. In fact, I dare say that I know more about nuclear submarines than any one that has ever posted on this particular BLOG.
You fail to mention how many 637 class fast attacks were decommissioned in the ’90s. During the ’90s the mission of fast attacks was increased and the number of subs decreased.
Also, many of the original SSBN’s were decommissioned in the ’90s.
In all fairness to the debate, Clinton hadlittle to do with the scheduled decommissions, but he did have a little effect on programs to replace these subs. He was also responsible for increasing the mission of the submarines left in service.
All in all I’d blame congress, not Clinton. He was pretty ambivilent about Navy preparedess.
Hank
From Wiki……
“The Sturgeon-class (colloquially in Navy circles, the 637 class) attack submarine (SSN) were the “work horses” of the submarine attack fleet throughout much of the Cold War. They were phased out in the 1990s and early 21st century in favor of the Los Angeles and Virginia classes.”
I am sure that you are correct in your assessment that you know more about the submarines, Mr. Price, but from the information that I was able to find, the Sturgeon Class was replaced by LA and Virginia Class vessels.
From the numbers I can gather, there were 43 Sturgeon Class submarines, replaced by 49 LA Class and 2 Virginia, with another nine under construction or on order.
From what I can find, there is a net gain in the number of (apparently) equivalent vessels.
I cannot find anything to suggest that Bill Clinton reduced the functional force of our submarine capabilities by two thirds.
Nonsense,there are only bout 500 plus NG people from the Kansas NG in Iraq and that leaves about 6500. Plus the 2 days no one was allowed in applied to everyone, the local farmers had trucks, front end loaders, dozers already there and ready to work.
Dont forget most of the things the folks in this part of the country drive to work, BEEPS when it backs up.
There first phone call Sebelius made was to the Democratic National Congress to get her anti Iraq talking points.
Perhaps that is why she had not actually called the NG and ASKED for help yet.
Silly bitch.
The National Guard has always been slow to respond whether to a hurricane, fire or a riot. Not their fault, they just are not designed that way. That need to change and here is how I would change it: RAISE the pay for the members of the guard but require them to carry pagers or cell phones capable of paging at all times. They should be available for deployment upon 2 hours notice and be at either their own armory or the nearest armory to where they are within 2 hours ready to ship out. We don’t need the Guard after the place has burned down. We need them to keep it from burning down.
“”Delayed response time”??? What the hell? Does the NYTimes really think that units of the National Guard are dressed, outfitted, loaded up and standing on every street corner, waiting to respond to something? It takes time to organize people, to cut orders, to gather, to arrange routes/support/food/logistics. That doesn’t happen in 20 seconds.”
“There first phone call Sebelius made was to the Democratic National Congress to get her anti Iraq talking points.”
Provide a link to support that statement. Somehow, I think you just made it up.
You also fail to realize that all 50 state governors are concerned about NG equipment and readiness as is the GAO.
Your Germness,
Once again you are wrong. I do not hate Bush. I disagree with his policies (actually non-policies) and in accordance with my first ammendment rights, I am entitled to voice those opinions.
No one censors you when it comes to your “truthful” posts. We will, however, continue to call you out on your fact-challenged assertions. So, don’t embarrass yourself – think and fact check before you type. (That is a friendly piece of advice).
Greensburg Victim Rips Kansas Gov. For CommentsResident: Claim Of Slow Response An Absurd ‘Political Slam’(CBS) GREENSBURG, Kan. While Democratic Gov. Kathleen Sebelius and the Bush administration jaw back-and-forth over the relief efforts for Greensburg, Kan., the town devastated by Friday night’s F-5 tornado, town residents have chimed in and say they couldn’t be any happier with the response from the government and other rescue units.
“The poor response thing is just political BS,” Greensburg resident Mike Swigart, 47, who lost his house and four vehicles from the storm, told wcbstv.com in an exclusive interview. “I saw her on television and I’m disappointed in that because she doesn’t know what she’s talking about.”
On Monday, Sebelius criticized the government’s response for relief.
“I don’t think there is any question if you are missing trucks, Humvees and helicopters that the response is going to be slower. The real victims here will be the residents of Greensburg, because the recovery will be at a slower pace.”
Sebelius said that with other states facing similar limitations, “stuff that we would have borrowed is gone.”
Swigart’s voice was soft and raspy on Wednesday, likely from the dust and mold that filled the rubble and remains of what was once his house of more than a decade. He recalled the intensity of the storm and the fear that took over his family as he, his wife, and his two sons, ages 10 and 13, huddled tightly inside a tiny five-by-five bathroom in his basement on Friday night.
“I thought we were goners. I really thought we were going to be gone,” he said. “I was just totally surprised by the intensity of it especially, and I really thought we were done for. I just kept holding onto everybody and as it got louder, we prayed harder and louder and I gotta say I think it helped.”
After the storm dissipated, Swigart and his family came up to find just a small portion of the structure of their house remaining. Their cars were destroyed. People were crawling from a semi-truck that rolled onto his lawn. But Swigart said there was an almost immediate response from other towns, people who had lined up to try and provide rescue efforts. He said Sebelius’ comment about the lack of Humvees was unfounded.
“You may have seen her on television when she said that, and she talked about Hummers, that we needed Hummers. There were Hummers sitting in front of my house every day. The National Guard was there,” he said. “I saw people from all over who came right away to help and nobody sent them, they just came because they knew it was going to be big. The response was excellent, the rescue efforts were all night long, and I even made a comment to my wife later that night when we came back into our basement that I can’t imagine anyone saying we had a poor response to this tragedy, that it was so quick and it was amazing.”
Swigart says the general feeling around the town is that residents were overwhelmed by the immediate response, and that the governor’s fuss was for her own good. White House press secretary Tony Snow responded to Sebelius by saying that there was no request by Kansas officials for extra equipment, and that if there is anyone to blame, it’s her.
“I was told she wanted to run as vice president on the Democratic ticket, and honestly, I wouldn’t vote for her if they paid me because of that one thing she said on television right there. It was a political slam is all it was,” he said. “It was a political statement and as far as the military thing overseas, I support what they’re doing over there, and the military that came here is doing a great job too.”By WCBSTV.com Producer Steve Fink(© MMVII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)
And the other 49 governors were wrong also?
Was the GAO wrong, too?
Talk about partisanship – if was a Democratic president and a Republican governor, the right wing would be SCREAMING!!!!!
“Swigart says the general feeling around the town is that residents were overwhelmed by the immediate response”
I’m very glad that the government is there to help the citizens of GreenSburg and that they have all the help, money, and manpower to do the job. I almost contributed money to the cause but now I know that Bushco is taking care of everything and so self-sacrifice is not necessary. The government will take care of everything!
Great story STS. Sebelius didn’t even wait for anything to go slightly amiss before starting her politicizing of the tragedy. I’m glad she is getting called on it.
EXCUSE ME Mr. Outlander. Even on this board, there were people criticising why there were no Natl. Guard there….or did you CONVENIENTLY forget that?
Well, I guess those people on this board were full of it, eh Mom?
You read the article. The disaster response was great. The victims aren’t complaining, they are complimentary. Shame on the guv for turning what should be a story about people pulling together into a cheap political stunt.
Am I mistaken…when FEMA and gov federalize an area, the trash is theirs!
People’s homes, its junk, they don’t own it anymore?
FEMA turning away volunteers is a sign. FEMA turned away volunteers during Katrina.
This time Greensburg didn’t wait days for water, medical coverage. Everyone evacuated fast after the storm.
Gov learned their lesson! Better governor here. Definitely better for Republicans, the red state Senators. No one from Louisiana patted Bush on his back, like Pat Roberts did at McConnell.
The details of FEMA will come out. Reporters thrown out of a zone. Contracts unfulfilled. Trash piled up, not moving. Trailers there but eventually people will be told to leave.
I think the trailers are a trap! Give value of trailer to each property and their family, let them make the financial decisions where to move from there. Long term the trailers cost a lot more federal money.
Months of bickering setting up a community standard of construction, its going to take time.
Does an area with many FEMA trailers need a storm shelter built underground first?
Future high wind storms might rip those FEMA trailers apart.
Let people move to other communities nearby if they want to stay in the area.
Don’t trap citizens with FEMA demanding, you’ll stay because we’re helping!
Excellent story on ESPN.com about Greensburg.
Good stuff, well written, tugs at the heartstrings.
“Greensburg athletes determined to maintain spirit”
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2864787
Oh what the hell ever.
Yes the local response was great, but the local response cannot DO everything and cannot last as long as needed. They need stuff.
Everyone EVERYONE who is involved in emergency management knows that you call in the bigger stuff.And what do you do when the bigger stuff isn’t available?
As far as volunteers…do you want a lot of people with no credentials going through your town and your stuff? How do you know for sure those volunteers aren’t coming to rob what little you have left blind?
Heck we already had it with the looting from people who are supposed to HAVE those credentials.
Trust me, I’m here to help. Would you believe that from everyone who shows up? By in large, most of the volunteers would be good people who truly do want to help. But what would you do without the ones there who can arrest them if you catch them stealing?
outlander–
You don’t seem to know much about Western Kansans.
These are people who accidently chain saw off their left arm at the elbow, and then say, “oh, well, still got the other one. It’ll do.”
They go to the doctor with double pneumonia and say, “just give me something so I can get back to work.”
They get bit by a rattlesnake, and the rattlesnake dies . . .
They can’t complain if they wanted to. They don’t know how.
YOU CANNOT COMPARE KATRINA TO GREENSBURG.
There IS NO COMPARISON. To compare Katrina to Greensburg would be more accurate if Greensburg were the length of the entire southern part of Kansas up to 30 miles north of the border.
And all underwater.
Capn: You are right about that! God bless those folks.
FEMA turns away volunteers because of liability issues and they can’t track them. Also, even though they might be volunteers they have to be registered works…unnecessary paperwork and headaches.
A good Q & A article about Sebelius and the NG issue – a whole lot less partisan than what we have here.
“In the President’s Kitchen”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18580850/site/newsweek/
Sebelius said she would bring up those concerns with President Bush on Wednesday when he visits the hard-hit Kansas farming town of Greensburg, where a tornado hit Friday, claiming nine lives.
Maj. Gen. Tod Bunting, the state’s adjutant general, said the Kansas National Guard was equipped to about 40 percent of its necessary levels, down from the 60 percent it had at the start of the war. About 850 soldiers have deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan.
“It just leaves you pretty tight,” he said. “We’re fine for now.”
Bunting said Kansas would be asking National Guard units in other states to send specialized soldiers and equipment to help with the recovery.
Randy Noller, spokesman for the National Guard Bureau, said equipment needs have been an ongoing issue since the war began. He said Lt. Gen. H. Steven Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau, has repeatedly asked Congress for funding to replace equipment being left overseas.
“This is an issue that we’ve been dealing with for several months,” Noller said. “He knows about it and is working to get it fixed.”
Sebelius, a Democrat, has written the Pentagon twice and spoke about the issue at great length with Bush in January 2006 when they rode together from Topeka to a lecture in Manhattan
Other states? Which ones? There are fires in the south,and flooding all around us. I think they’re going to need their own lower number of troops.
What about the ones sitting on the border?
Now we have flooding/potential flooding issues in the northeast portion of the state. It is still early in the rainy season. If flooding does become a major issue and more storms hit, the NG will be overwhelmed.
“Great story STS. Sebelius didn’t even wait for anything to go slightly amiss before starting her politicizing of the tragedy. I’m glad she is getting called on it.”
I am astounded, Mike, my friend, that you were not equally troubled by Bush’s making political hay with this awful tragedy.
Some political stunts are okay and others are not? Please tell us what you think. Thanks and you take care.
Capn,That’s the truth! My husband’s grandfather lost a finger sawing wood for his house in Ellis. He tossed it to the dog and went back to work.
This is something I proposed a year or so ago, but maybe it’s time to try again.What this country needs is a whole new branch of the service dedicated to disaster relief. Members would be trained experts in disaster management, rescue, relief, logistics, medical services, heavy equipment, security, etc. They would be equipped to respond anywhere in the world at a moment’s notice with equipment, supplies, expertise and manpower, and all the interfacing with other countries negotiated in advance, so that aid would begin immediately.Such a force would save lives and go a long way toward repairing the damage our current foreign policies have inflicted, so long as it’s not run by FEMA.
“He tossed it to the dog and went back to work.”
Changes the meaning of “giving the finger” now doesn’t it?
Kansas National Guard declines permission request to take picture of lot full of vehicles not being used:
On my way out of Manhattan today, I happened to notice the Kansas National Guard Armory that had perhaps 2 or 3 dozen vehicles sitting in their lot in the back of the building. I went in the front door and asked if I could get permission to take pictures of all the vehicles in the parking lot behind the building inside the fenced area. I offered to give them an ID, and let them review any pictures I took. I explained that I thought it was fair to ask why so many vehicles were there when Sebelius had complained about such a lack of equipment available in Greensburg. About ten minutes later my request was denied. I respected their decision.This would have been the Kansas version of all the school buses in the parking lot in New Orleans under Mayor Nagin.
If Sebelius ever pulls this stunt again, we should collect pictures of all the unused and available equipment at all the Kansas National Guard Armories.
Why don’t we have more investigative journalism in Kansas?
Now I see Bush start up a chainsaw on TV- does anybody know if he actually USED the chainsaw to do any work or did he do what most Republicans do and wait for the TV camera to turn off and hand the chainsaw to a Democrat to do the work?
Steven: The difference is pretty easy to see. The governor came to Greensburg. The president came. As they both should have. The governor is the one who took a model of how state and federal government should work together in disaster and turned it the focus to partisanship.
Steven: And that is all I want to say about this because we are making too big of a deal out of it. I am sorry I contributed to that. I would like to see the focus get back where it should be.
“YOU CANNOT COMPARE KATRINA TO GREENSBURG.
There IS NO COMPARISON. “————
You can say that again.
Here, KS is prosecuting the theives who stole cigarettes as “looters,” making their crime a felony.
In Katrina, the looters stole thousands of dollars worth of merchandise, shot at rescue helicopters, and then Nagin and the liberals whined that the poor things didn’t know any better, and many were never charged at all.
Here – the good people of Kansas immediately took up the cause, and are feeding, housing, and helping the residents of Greensburg.
In Katrina’s aftermath – the responsibility fell solely on the shoulders of the government, because very few in LA cared enough to organize the rescues on their own.
And here, they speak of a community of good folks being wiped out – in New Orleans some said it was God’s Will that a cesspool of humanity was eradicated.
You’re right – no comparison.
And why is that?
GS the difference could be that there was no ‘project’ in Greensburg filled with 3rd or 4th welfare generation recepients waiting for the gov to come get them.
Greensburg and Kansas are full of hard workers who were raised with the ‘can do’ attitude. That is what makes us successful as a nation and is also why we continue to be a red state.
Until the democratic party returns to the working class people that made it up in the Truman era and not the elite entertainers and ultra left wingers there is little danger this red state will turn blue.
When people were in need, who tried to score political points? Disgraceful.
“Until the democratic party returns to the working class people that made it up in the Truman era and not the elite entertainers and ultra left wingers there is little danger this red state will turn blue.”—————–
Direct hit! Good call.
If anything, Katrina should teach us the lesson that allowing people to live on government charity, whether it be housing, food, or whatever, leads them into a mindset whereby they don’t think they are responsible for their own lives.
Sadly, the liberals are refusing to look at the cause of the problem there – and instead want to blame those who tried to help.
Biting the hand that feeds them.
Nothing good can come of it.
Some points:Obama did say ten thousand then realized he had misspoken corrected it to ten.
Now you may get the idea I only look for a reason to gig Bush&Co. I really do try to find something I can also say the is enough of a positive that would offset those things that I find that is a negative. I give Cheney credit to the positive in his support of his Lesbian daughter in the fight over the Federal gay marriage ban.The President has learned from his reaction to Katrina and like him or not it is the right and good thing for him to have done. It did not come a week later and I might add having worked at a small airport and knowing something of weather and flight. Yesterday had dangerous conditions, he would have had the best pilots but even the best would have been tried. Yet still he came, a mark to the positiveTo the nation the destruction of a town of less then 2,000 in the middle of nowhere to their thinking is not a great less. To Kansas and the people of Greensburg the president coming is a sign that it counts.Does Bush need some positive P.R.? Of course he does and maybe to the majority in the nation. It mean nothing compare to the damage done to our country. But it was something he had a justification to have cancel. But he did not…. A positive.
A shortage of KNG equipment is subjective at to the location, if you are next door to an armory and need a pay loader, Dump truck or any large equipment to save your life and make your life whole if it is there you will have it. But if the unit is deployed, if the equipment has been left in Iraq and the closest is in a town hundreds of mile away when you need it now. Well I guess you can wait.. in the dark… under rubble… Hey the neighbor has a pick up! Yes there is enough KNG equipment to handle something the size of Greensburg. Sure it has to come from Wichita, but there is enough, but of course neither is Wichita the only Guard unit in the state. Great Bend has one, several other towns have guard units. Some would even be closer, but again what if the closest is short on the equipment needed? What if tomorrow another storm hits and while in Greensburg that equipment is needed? Enough of that point and here is another, the National guard is a state organization, is now and has always been. It is the reserve of the reserve units in national defense. One of the main purpose of the guard is home defense. Now how short do you want them to be?Another of the main purposes of the guard is state defense… How short do you want them to be?In normal times there are at the command of the Governor of the state, civil unrest, natural disaster, they are the state’s military. YOUR state, YOUR protection when the event is larger then the locals can handle on their own…. How short do you want them to be?
The fact is that the National guard is a reserve of the United States army in cases of national defense! They have never been intended to be front line troops except in the case of a invasion of the nation. They have never been meant to a replacement for the regular army but a supplement for the standing army. Bush in fact it was Rumsfield used them as a replacement for the standing army. But the fact remains that the Guard has never had the most modern, up-to-date equipment as their role is as a reserve for National defense not a front line unit in a foreign war. Their intent has been to be called when needed in a large war such as they were utilized during WWII. The standing army has regular drills, training and the best equipment while the National guard has one a month meetings and two weeks a year training. Well suited to be a rear guard in the case of an invasion when needed.
Gov. Kathleen Sebelius’ was in deed not alone in this complain nor is it just today that has been a issue brought up by Greensburg. Rather a example of the problem and a warning of the possible outcome of a major disaster where the need is in several different places at once. To claim it is pure politics is to ignore that it has been a issue for over a years and touched on by every Governor in every state.
Kansas is fortunate, when the chips are down people tend to come together. Halloween night when Augusta, Ks. flooded, no one told the people to help. They came on their own, when a call came for help with sand bagging, the people grabbed their gloves and were their! But no one had trucks large enough to make it through the deep water, The local KNG unit was out, that night rescuing stranded people, moving stalled cars out of the street to clear the way. Helping with filling sand bags and transporting them to where they were needed. The armory is in town, there was no waiting days it was hours. God bless them! Since the beginning of the Iraq war they have been deploy twice that I know of.They are called citizen soldiers… OUR citizen soldiers!
Interject politics all you want, the Governor was not!
Natural disaster bring out the best in people, it also brings out the worst! I know a man who did work for a local construction company. The morning after the Andover tornado, he received a call from the owner of the company. They had been asked to help with the search and recover of victims, to help clear the rubble and lift the heavy damage.
The owner was calling all his truck drivers and heavy equipment operators. My friend while still on the phone was already slipping on his pants and boots. WHEN the owner said, “We are going to make a killing… I am charging them double our going rate!”.My friend stopped in his tracks, “YOU BASTARD!” he shouted into the phone and hung up. He did go to the shop later, to throw his badge and keys to the pay loader he operated over the fence. The good news is that the owner shortly afterwards lost his business he was cheating even the gas company out of money. I would hope that in the need and the matter of our fellow human beings that they welfare would be more of a concern then what kind of a profit can been made from all this.
You guys are complete idiots. I’m sorry but it’s true.
There were rescue boats in Salina a few days ago. Why aren’t you complaining that people were whining and crying about waiting to be rescued there?
Because it was a DAMN FLOOD. And they HAD NO CHOICE. Gasp, it happened in this bright red state of ours!
Make NO mistake, the Democratic party is and will always be the party of the working people.
Guess who kept me from going to Greensburg? A republican boss…gee go figure.
Hey Meadowlark? Did you ask if there were people to man the vehicles that were sitting there?
interesting article.always amusing yet typical that this is not covered by the WE Blog. If this victim were blaming Bush, it would be front and center.
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_129130446.html
Greensburg Victim Rips Kansas Gov. For CommentsResident: Claim Of Slow Response An Absurd ‘Political Slam’Slideshow: Tornado Destroys Greensburg, KansasClick Here For Information On How You Can Help Greensburg Victims(CBS) GREENSBURG, Kan. While Democratic Gov. Kathleen Sebelius and the Bush administration jaw back-and-forth over the relief efforts for Greensburg, Kan., the town devastated by Friday night’s F-5 tornado, town residents have chimed in and say they couldn’t be any happier with the response from the government and other rescue units.
“The poor response thing is just political BS,” Greensburg resident Mike Swigart, 47, who lost his house and four vehicles from the storm, told wcbstv.com in an exclusive interview. “I saw her on television and I’m disappointed in that because she doesn’t know what she’s talking about.”
On Monday, Sebelius criticized the government’s response for relief.
“I don’t think there is any question if you are missing trucks, Humvees and helicopters that the response is going to be slower. The real victims here will be the residents of Greensburg, because the recovery will be at a slower pace.”
Sebelius said that with other states facing similar limitations, “stuff that we would have borrowed is gone.”
Swigart’s voice was soft and raspy on Wednesday, likely from the dust and mold that filled the rubble and remains of what was once his house of more than a decade. He recalled the intensity of the storm and the fear that took over his family as he, his wife, and his two sons, ages 10 and 13, huddled tightly inside a tiny five-by-five bathroom in his basement on Friday night.
“I thought we were goners. I really thought we were going to be gone,” he said. “I was just totally surprised by the intensity of it especially, and I really thought we were done for. I just kept holding onto everybody and as it got louder, we prayed harder and louder and I gotta say I think it helped.”
After the storm dissipated, Swigart and his family came up to find just a small portion of the structure of their house remaining. Their cars were destroyed. People were crawling from a semi-truck that rolled onto his lawn. But Swigart said there was an almost immediate response from other towns, people who had lined up to try and provide rescue efforts. He said Sebelius’ comment about the lack of Humvees was unfounded.
“You may have seen her on television when she said that, and she talked about Hummers, that we needed Hummers. There were Hummers sitting in front of my house every day. The National Guard was there,” he said. “I saw people from all over who came right away to help and nobody sent them, they just came because they knew it was going to be big. The response was excellent, the rescue efforts were all night long, and I even made a comment to my wife later that night when we came back into our basement that I can’t imagine anyone saying we had a poor response to this tragedy, that it was so quick and it was amazing.”
Swigart says the general feeling around the town is that residents were overwhelmed by the immediate response, and that the governor’s fuss was for her own good. White House press secretary Tony Snow responded to Sebelius by saying that there was no request by Kansas officials for extra equipment, and that if there is anyone to blame, it’s her.
“I was told she wanted to run as vice president on the Democratic ticket, and honestly, I wouldn’t vote for her if they paid me because of that one thing she said on television right there. It was a political slam is all it was,” he said. “It was a political statement and as far as the military thing overseas, I support what they’re doing over there, and the military that came here is doing a great job too.”By WCBSTV.com Producer Steve Fink(© MMVII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)
Comparisons between Greensburg and Katrina are bogus in specifics.
A town of 1500 vs a major metropolitan area and the nation’s 2nd-most-important seaport vs a tiny little farming community with a big well.
Imagine a mile-and-a-half wide F-5 tornado setting down in Hayville and plowing a swath all the way to Valley Center and maybe you’d have a better comparison to what happened during Katrina. Maybe.
But even Wichita is a much smaller city than New Orleans. And one of the benefits of even an F-5 tornado is when it’s gone, it’s over. The hurricane winds and subsequent flooding of New Orleans was a disaster that kept on giving.
The veiled racism of comparing the inner-city victims of Katrina to the lily-white noble plainsmen of Greensburg is evident from conservatives posting to this thread.
“George WMD Bush to the rescue!” He “promised” he’d send help. He’s sending a bunch of travel trailers to replace the Victorian-era homes that were wiped off the face of the earth in Greensburg. Yeah, let’s put a bunch of trailers in the middle of tornado alley. Nothing could possibly go wrong with that plan.
Lilly-White eh Long Time Poster?
I think the Grand Kleagle is calling you LTP.
No doubt anal retentive.
Well, people live in trailers all over Kansas all the time. So I have no issue with the trailers.
As long as they build a storm shelter to go with it.
As far as this nonsense about Sebelius’s comments…did nobody read the initial post? REPUBLICAN all 50 governors AGREED with her. NOT ONE state disagreed.
“There were rescue boats in Salina a few days ago. Why aren’t you complaining that people were whining and crying about waiting to be rescued there?”————–
Let’s see here….uh…maybe because they weren’t shooting at the rescuers or cussing them for not being there earlier?
Maybe because they were being proactive and helping themsleves also?
There are a number of reasons.
Take your pick.
People were DYING from sitting out there with no food or water for almost a week. BIG difference.
But that’s not exactly the point I was trying to drive home to you…which I’m sure you got, but refused to acknowledge.
Nice to see the manic ranters in full froth this morning.
The feds were moving equipment into the region well before Sebelius bothered to ask for it. They issued the emergency declaration allowing local equipment to be used (and paid for) before Sebelius did the paperwork. The state adjutant general (a Sebelius appointee) has said repeatedly they have everything they need in Greensburg. They have so many people they’re tripping over themselves. MASSIVE response by neighbors, nearby counties and cities, etc.
Sebelius was pandering. She got caught at it. She backed off. She told the White House that she had everything she needed for now, and would not be shy about calling for more if needed. Quote:
“I’ve got what I need. I’ve got your number, I won’t be shy, I will call if I need anything.”
And the National Guard lots are still full of equipment, and there are still thousands of Kansas National Guard members available for callup to operate it. They haven’t been called.
Get over it.
Hey LJ…do you know who I am now?
Snarky, is that why ole Tony Snow said that she didn’t do the asking in the proper way? Sigh, ya’ll just keep onnnnnnnn a spinnin.
“He’s sending a bunch of travel trailers to replace the Victorian-era homes that were wiped off the face of the earth in Greensburg. Yeah, let’s put a bunch of trailers in the middle of tornado alley. Nothing could possibly go wrong with that plan.”———–
I guarantee you that the recipients of these trailers will NOT be like those in New Orleans. These folks will be rebuilding and taking responsibility for their own lives.
What do you WANT Bush to do? Build these folks all a historical reproduction of an original turn-of-the-century house? Gee how nice? Maybe GWB should just totally take full responsibility for replacing everything? He could let the insurance companies off the hook that way, and they could just bilk more homeowners.
I sometimes wonder what it would be like to be in a liberal’s head….I picture it to be akin to a marble rolling aimlessly around in a stock tank.
And another thing (re: Sebelius supposedly “politicizing” the Greensburg disaster response) –
The Governor did *not* bring up the issue of National Guard equipment shortages; the issue was raised by a reporter. The reporter knew that NG lost to Iraq had long been a concern to Sebelius. As she was dispatching the NG to Greensburg, it was raining 3″ an hour in northeast Kansas. Streets were flooded in Topeka, Leavenworth was threatend by the Missouri River, roads were inundated in Salina first-responders conducted a dramatic rescue of people who were trying to evacuate a raging creek in southeast Kansas.
“Is this the ‘perfect storm’ you’ve been worried about?” asked a reporter. Her answer turned up as the lead in Associated Press reports, which made it appear that she was playing “Gotcha!” or “I told ya so!” with Shrub’s Iraqi adventure.
Fortunately, the streams in Topeka receded, the Missouri stayed within its banks, and the southeast Kansas victims got out alive. Not news. No, “news” is Tony Snowjob claiming Sebelius had only requested “some FM radios.” (Of course later, the White House mumbled that Tony “regrets the error” of ignoring Sebelius’ constant lobbying for restoring NG equipment…a paper trail that goes back to 2005. But again: not “news.”)
Well…in Sebelius defense, she more or less has to go down there and act all Govenory, talk like a Governess and do things that Governors do. President Bush more or less did the same thing.
You know, one can’t just leave the White House and run down to McDonalds, there are issues about.
I don’ see a thing wrong with the Government attending to a tragic circumstance like Greenburg. Heck, everyone is pitching in, even the namesake in Indiana. Greenburgs unite! Now there is a noble concept. :)
Hey LJ…do you know who I am now?
Posted by: political_mom | May 10, 2007 at 10:17 AM
I don’t think I have been part of this thread but By your question, you must know me and feel you have revealed enough of yourself for me to recognize you. I confess I don’t, so I may be dense, or forgetful as hell. I will look for clues.
No, I don’t think I know you. But I thought since I’ve been posting on the work listserv…you might have figured out who I am.
I am a mental midget when it comes to computers. I do not know what”But I thought since I’ve been posting on the work listserv…”means. But even so, and even though we disagree on many things, I think I would be happy to know you. And I will keep thinking about whom you might be.
GS I am still laughing about the marble rolling around. That is the most apt explanation you could have found.
I was going to suggest that we bring the survivers into Wichita, put them up at the Marriott or Hyatt until the gov. is through putting up those faux Victorian houses.
There is nothing racist about talking about the ‘hands out’ mentality in NO. They all had ample warning to be out of that city. Don’t tell me they had no way out. There were thousands of school buses that set in water for months. They had a mayor and they should have been pressuring him to help them get out.
Saying they didn’t know how to help themselves is a bogus claim. The welfare mentality of the left has raised generations of people who will never be able to take care of themselves. Now we want to add a new layer by socializing medical care.
When you think about it, who would you rather see running this country – a party made up of survivors of Greensburg or survivors of NO.
What’s a ‘work listserv?’
o_serenity_now@yahoo.com LJ. Email me.
More rabid froth and rant from the BDS hysterics.
No delay in Greensburg search and rescue or relief, according to Sebelius herself after she got called on her pandering. None. Zero. Zip. Town inundated with assistance.
So was Sebelius lying the first time, or the second time? Since she’s said it both ways, and only one can be true.
So judgemental Grm & GS.
I would so love to see your butts sitting in NO, with no money, and everyone telling you to go to the big dome place, there are no buses.
Sit there for five days with no food or water or medicine.
Then I wanna see you not complain one bit.
Be careful though, usually these kinds of things come back and CHOMP you right in the butt. Karma baby.
ksgrm – just before Katrina hit – Nagin had made the public announcement that 70% of the babies born in New Orleans were to single mothers.
That goes to illustrate the permissive mindset that ruled the city.
If fully 70% of the residents couldn’t even take responsibility for their sex lives – they certainly were not going to look out for themselves when disaster struck.
As you pointed out – there were third and fourth generation welfare recipients. That Nanny-state mentality backfired badly. New Orleans is the proof, just as Greensburg is proof that integrity and hard work are their own reward.
At some point, we, as a nation are going to have to deal with some of the cultural ‘leftovers’ that our African American citizens are burdened with.
A dentist friend of mine served on a church mission project for 6 months in the poorest areas of Africa. He fixed the teeth of the poorest of the poor – free, but he was very disillusioned when he returned because he said the problem is only getting worse.
The men have the mindset that they MUST have sex before going to sleep at night, and if their wife is pregnant – they don’t have sex with her. That leaves the bee free to go from flower to flower.
Fathering numerous children is seen as a sign of virility – even if they can’t – and won’t – help feed the little ones.
Before we can stop the trend of these children following their parents’ footsteps into poverty – we have to deal with their parents’ total lack of responsibility.
Talk about Nero fiddling…
PMom there WERE buses. There was a mayor fiddling while NO flooded. HE could have done something. He knew that town better than anyone else. He knew those people depended on public transportation. Why didn’t he evacuate the city in the days before the hurricaine when he was warned? Why didn’t he send in city buses, school buses, national guard vans? He had any number of ways to get them out BEFORE the storm hit.
I can remember when I was pre-school age and the dam at Burlington, Kansas was breached, broke or whatever. It was 1951 I think. Our house in Miami, Ok. was in the direct path. We had to cross a field behind our house to get out safely. We didn’t wait for a rescue party. At 3o’clock in the morning we walked to safety and carried everything we could in the one car we had available. We lost practically everything we had. The town was completely isolated because of the flood water. No driving out and the only way in was by boat.
Within a week after the waters receeded my dad and his brother were rebuilding our house.
I’m not bragging but you act as if no one has ever been in that position before. Don’t sit back and wait to be rescued – help yourself. Storm the mayors office and demand that he evacuate the ‘project’.
I guess that is why I am independent. I was raised that way.
Work calls but this has been a good start to really discussing the problems we have. Hiding them under a basket, or calling them by another name won’t change the reality of what they are.
You’d walk how far in 3 days? Or would you do it in the middle of a hurricane? Do you think you could get far enough inland? Where would you go then?
I don’t dispute that Nagin should have had those school buses loaded up. But after they were flooded, he couldn’t. It is not the people’s fault that Nagin didnt’ get those buses going.
They were sent to the superdome.And how exactly did your father rebuild the house? Did he cut down trees? How many trees do you think are in NO? Where did he get the money if you bought the wood? Where did you live in the meantime? Were you able to hunt? Drink fresh water? Do you think the people of NO could do that?
There were busses in New Orleans.
There were no bus drivers; they had evacuated.
So your idea of “good government” is hand over the keys of the city’s school busses to anyone who shows up? Good luck with that. Oh, and the guy who hands over the keys to the city’s school busses has also evacuated the city.
Of course it would all have been moot is the levies had held. Too bad there’s not an agency in charge of Homeland Security to help keep track of the 2nd-most important seaport in America. Oh, wait. There is one! And “Brownie” did a heckuva job.
Long time poster I am sure you are talking the party line. But….
There was one 16 year old boy/man who hot wired a school bus and drove it full of people to Houston. I’m not advocating stealing buses but a city that is this vulnerable surely had an emergency plan. Many people can drive buses that are not drivers by trade. Many things could have been done. And by the way the reason the levies were breached was in large part because the Corp of Engineers recomendations were never followed. Millions of dollars that were sent in to upgrade and repair them was channeled to other projects. Louisiana politics at its best. Howie Long may be gone but his legacy lives on.
Pmom my dad traded his skills as a mechanic to pay for the lumber for this job. I just called my 92 year old mom to ask. His brothers and lots of men from the church came in and raised the house in a very short time.
Something else she told me: The highest hourly wage my dad ever made was $2.65 an hour. I am one of eight girls. I guess we were poor but I sure didn’t know it growing up. We raised what we ate and had one milk cow.
Self sufficiency is a tradition as well as living off the public dole is. When someone fails to care for his family we are always there with an excuse as to why he just couldn’t do it, why should they do better.
If you doubt this, look at the number of immaculate conceptions happening in our country today. Most babies whose moms are on welfare have no father. Isn’t this sad?
By the way I just heard a news story about Howard Dean calling early Sat. morning to tell her how to act when she called the FEMA or the White House.
http://www.biggandyy.com/
This site expounds on the story and it isn’t pretty. I’ll withhold judgement but I just hope the Demorats aren’t so low that they would try to make political points on the back of Greensburg suffering.
“A brief summary: A source apparently close to the situation has told Quinn that Sebelius called Brownback shortly after she made the Katrina-like statement to the press to apologize. She allegedly told Brownback that she had been instructed by Howard Dean and Dick (Durbin?) to blame the fictional “lack of response” to the hurricane on the absence of National Guard troops and equipment, which had been diverted to Iraq (not true).
She said she would not have said these things “unless she had to,” and that she was told not to pass up an opportunity like this.”
This is the story going around with good sources. Interesting.
http://albanysinsanity.com/
Sounds like more made up stuff from the right wing, Grm. There is nothing in your link to suggest that this story is accurate in the least.
Your irrational hatred of anything Democratic is showing.
Now, how about a link to that story about the Muslims segregating the schools in California?
Same source?
“ksgrm,” if you’re *not* advocating stealing school busses, just what *are* you advocating?
And you accuse me of “talking the party line?!”
Good lord. Irony really is dead.
At the very moment a reporter asked Sebelius about the shortage of NG resources, Greensburg had been leveled, Topeka and Salina were flooded, and Leavenworth was threatened by a raging Missouri River (which is, as I write) spreading devastation in the state of Missouri.
She was concerned with potential crises (quite unlike George WMD Bush who never imagined what might happen in Iraq if they *didn’t* welcome American troops with flowers and chocolates). Being prepared for crises is the measure of a skilled executive and George WMD Bush’s NG strategy in Iraq is the consequence of incompetence. No wonder you resent the comparison.
No one seems to want to talk about Tony Snowjob’s accusation (later retracted) that “the only thing Governor Sebelius requested for the National Guard was a few FM radios.” Because the lie is absolutely, completely, indefensable, verifiably, on-the-record politically-motivated attack, with no basis in fact; or business as usual for this White House.
A few posts or threads back, someone in El Dorado commented on the convoy of the 891st Engineers Batallion headed toward Greensburg. Based entirely on no information s/he accused Sebelius of sending only the “rattiest” equipment… for political reasons.
Kansas Republics have, once again, demonstrated their inclination to fix the blame instead of fixing the problem.
It’s not about politics, it’s about policy. Please try to catch up.
The irrationally is flying free on this topic.
Doesn’t matter background, lifestyle choices or bad decisions made by some individuals, when tragedy happens its the responsibility of the state and federal government agencies to show up and help when they can.
FEMA failed in New Orleans after the state and N.O. politicians failed their citizens.
Many made decisions to stay because of circumstances. No belief Katrina was storm of a century, family members too sick or infirm. Fear of their property being taken if all left.
Some stayed because they couldn’t transport pets. People had cars still didn’t leave, no extra money or place to stay if they fled.
Local people here in Kansas, don’t leave flooded area’s quickly, need saving.
Everybody needs assistance some days. They call for help when things break down.
Nothing was like Katrina hitting New Orleans as it flooded the streets and broke access roads.
It was unconscionable for the governments to fail those citizens. The same Coast Guard could have air dropped anything after saving people from roof tops. They were called off!
Politics have continued to play games in Louisiana between Repubs and Dems, but here in red ass Kansas, Pat Roberts slaps Bush on the back like everything is great.
The long term process will tell how FEMA has improved. If Fed bid contracts work out. If trash is picked up and moved. People have ability to rebuild.
Many won’t rebuild what they lived in before and its going to cost more. There is no misunderstanding rebuilding can occur in Greensburg.
Still misunderstanding of some areas in New Orleans if they can rebuild. Who totally believes the pumps won’t fail again down there?
Never blame the people needing assistance when tragedy happens. A job has to be saving the people regardless.
Looting when no government is helping the people, without information, nor power in the city, its not surprising.
People can act wild when they have no authority. Its not racial or cultural, just is as humanity behaves with structure breaks down.
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_129130446.html
While Democratic Gov. Kathleen Sebelius and the Bush administration jaw back-and-forth over the relief efforts for Greensburg, Kan., the town devastated by Friday night’s F-5 tornado, town residents have chimed in and say they couldn’t be any happier with the response from the government and other rescue units.
“The poor response thing is just political BS,” Greensburg resident Mike Swigart, 47, who lost his house and four vehicles from the storm, told wcbstv.com in an exclusive interview. “I saw her on television and I’m disappointed in that because she doesn’t know what she’s talking about.”
—————————–
I guess we’re supposed to have enough equipment to be able to drop stockpiled FEMA houses on the old foundations using Chinook helicopters, just as soon as the debris settles. We need the funding to keep some of those home-laden choppers on the pad, hooked up and ready to go!
Blow it out your Brownback, Snarky. Every governor signed the letter to Bush expressing concern over NG manpower and equipment.
That would be FIFTY Guvs, Democrat and Republican.
Snarky –
What do the residents of Greensburg have to compare the emergency response to?
*ANY* help would be appreciated.
But there are standards.
And, thanks to FEMA and the Kansas National Guard and Governor Sebelius, those standards were met…in Greensburg.
Had the flooding in Salina, Topeka, Leavenworth, and southeast Kansas lived up to their Saturday night potential, many Kansans would have been SOL. The KNG doesn’t have the equipment and trained personnel to deal with crises the way it could have responded before our “Weekend Warriors” (and their hardware) were shipped halfway around the world to entertain George WMD Bush’s optional war in Iraq.
Since 2005, the Governor has warned that equipment shortages of the KNG put you and me and our neighbors in jeopardy. Greensburg had the “perfect storm” but there were other storms underway that weekend… in Salina, in Topeka, in southeast Kansas, in Leavenworth. And we dodged Mother Nature’s bullet.
Floods subsided in Salina and Topeka and southeast Kansas and Leavenworth… but downstream from Leavenworth, Missouri towns are fighting nature’s fury.
All 50 governors in America expressed long ago the jeopardy George WMD Bush’s Iraqi policy has placed us in due to turning “Weekend Warriors” (and their equipment) into front-line forces halfway around the world.
If NBC News showed video of George WMD Bush butt-f*cking Barney in the Rose Garden, half of the posters to WE Blog would defend it as “an effort to produce a superior breed of dog.” Most of the rest would blame “the media” for airing the story.
WS: With all due respect, because the governors had expressed concern about the equipment, does not mean that there was a shortage in this case or that the response was not exemplary. I had speculated earlier about the DNC holding this until a tragedy occurred and calling on the governor to politicize it. It looks like this may have occurred.
Even if it didn’t it was the wrong thing to do.
Outlander –
“If it didn’t happen it was the wrong thing to do.”
Thank you for not politicizing the issue.
LT Rail on but I think the truth is going to come out this time.
That is a worn out story that came out when Juanita Broadrick went on national TV to tell how she was raped by Billy Boy and the entire democrat party called her a liar. “It originally was that if the media recorded Billy raping Mother Teresa on the front lawn of the White House, the media would tell us that “he never had sex with that woman” and thats his story and he’s sticking to it.
As usual, Grm, your story has zero proof. Broaddrick could not even remember the date, her husband did not remember any injuries and no one could back up her story. She “came forward” after many, many years, but folks like you choose to believe her despite a complete lack of evidence or proof.
It’s sort of like mothballing submarines or Muslim school segregation in California.
Just because you want it to be true doesn’t mean it is.
WSClark –
How quickly you forget!
I was working talk radio in Kansas City as the token Liberal on a right-wing station all during the Monica Lewinski thing. (I was fired because, to quote the producer, “You’re making conservatives look bad.” Hey! I had plenty of help!) But I digress…
When the Moonie “Insight” magazine put forward the Arlington-Gate “scandal” I went on the air and on the record that, if the charges were true (that Clinton was selling burial plots in Arlington National Cemetary for campaign contributions), I would lead the cause for impeachment.
Guess what? The Arlington-Gate “scandal” was made up out of whole cloth. No evidence. No sources. Nothing at all but the fantasies of the Reverend Moon’s lackeys.
Remember “Mena-Gate?” No facts, no truth, just a Richard Mellon-Scaiffe-financed “scandal” with no basis in fact.
How ’bout “Vince Foster was murdered in the White House by Hillary, wrapped up in a rug, and dumped in a park”-gate? The people who still belive that constitute a majority of the 28% of Amerians who think George WMD Bush is doing “a good job.”
You are right. There is are not 4th generation welfare folks in rural Kansas. There are just lots of 4th generation “farm subsidy” folks waiting for their checks every month for NOT doing any work.
“GS the difference could be that there was no ‘project’ in Greensburg filled with 3rd or 4th welfare generation recepients waiting for the gov to come get them.
Greensburg and Kansas are full of hard workers who were raised with the ‘can do’ attitude. That is what makes us successful as a nation and is also why we continue to be a red state.”
You have to have a Commercial Drivers License to drive a bus and I am quite sure that the Republicans would have jailed anybody driving without one in Katrina- just like they did the lady who’s father was having a heart attack for driving too fast. The cop and judge are both Republicans.
It was disappointing to hear our governor complain about not having enough National Guard resources available during the aftermath of the tornado. At best this was a clumsy time for partisan cheap shots. There were people still unaccounted for. Has she forgotten she is a Kansan? Here we roll up our sleeves and go to work. There will be plenty of time for her to complain and lay blame later.
Lovely, WSClark. I quote actual Greensburg citizens and you have nothing but vile insults for them. After all, THEY couldn’t know what they’re talking about! They were only THERE! What do thoe victims know, those scum?
Laughing. My. Ass. Off.
Chris R–Sebelius isn’t a Kansan. She’s a transplant, born to politics in Ohio where her father was governor. My personal fave was the video of her talking about the lack of equipment while it rolled by her in the background.
Rumor is that she held off on asking for fed help or even deploying Guard units until Papa Dean gave her the green light. But credible as that may be, there’s no reliable/confirmable source for it, so it’s RUMOR.
Thanks for those reminders, LTPFTL. It’s fun to watch how “truth” is so dependent on the deranged obsessions of the listener. There are still far-righters who think Clinton personally whacked teenagers in Mena. And a whole third of Dems think Bush planned 9/11. Must be something in the water!
But guess what? Were the KNG at full strength instead of a mere 90%, or even at 50%, it wouldn’t make any diff in response and rescue, other than as to who did it. First response is always local, and after that it’s pick up sticks and beg for checks. It’s nice we get to do it on the federal dime, but we would do it anyway.
“Hi! I’m from the government and I’m here to help you!”
Uh huh.
Ws where is your supporting statement from the husband that he saw no injuries. Even the major network that finally aired this after much pressure to not do it said they had several witnesses who saw the injuries including the emergency room nurse who treated.
Show me your evidence.
“A source apparently close to the situation has told Quinn that Sebelius called Brownback shortly after she made the Katrina-like statement to the press to apologize.”
This is not a good source, ksgrm.
Not even close.
It also does not jibe with Sebelius clarifying her statement several times after the White House lied about her and her signing a letter saying that the National Guard deployments could have negative impacts on her state.
In the future, if you don’t have some kind of credible source that makes sense, don’t post it.
We’re not interested in the wild rants of the reich-wing’s e-mails.
If Clinton was guilty of rape, why was there no prosecution, no civil case, etc.
Because there was no case.
You only want to believe it because of your irrational hatred of Clinton.
WS it could be media bias, ignorance – you name it. If you don’t think it happens try goggleing Diane Feinstein and scandle.
By the way still waiting for the husbands statement.
“WS it could be media bias, ignorance – you name it.”
The last time I checked, the media was not responsible for prosecuting criminal cases or filing civil lawsuits on the behalf of victims.
And ignorance? Who was supposedly ignorant that rape was a crime?
As for proof – I am still waiting for your link to the segregated schools to accommodate Muslims.
You go first.
“Rumor is that she held off on asking for fed help or even deploying Guard units until Papa Dean gave her the green light. But credible as that may be, there’s no reliable/confirmable source for it, so it’s RUMOR.”
Now officially denied by all parties involved. Brownback simply stated it was false. Howard Dean had DNC lawyers send out cease and desist orders. Now THAT’s funny. Dishes out, lawyers up.
WS when you can’t produce – drop back and punt. THe balls in your court. You SAID the husband denied that it happened. Not sure how he would know but the Arkansas State police were the door watchers so you figure out why it wasn’t prosecuted.
Germies lie for the day was posted on freeperville. She has quoted the freepers on many occassions.
Like Steven Davis says, just assume everything she posts is a lie and then you’ll be pleasantly surprised if there is an exception that proves the rule.
One thing ya gotta say about germie, she is consistant.
She NEVER lets facts get in the way of what she believes.
Or a good conspiracy theory.
Here is documentation to support my position, GRM. Also, I am looking for the link that shows Broaddrick failed a polygraph test. Yes. lie detector test are not admissible, but police regularly use them to assist in an investigation.
You will notice that the last link shows were Broaddricks husband – the one she was cheating on – did not remember any injuries.
Affidavit of Juanita Broaddrick denying non-consensual sex with President Clinton
http://www.samsloan.com/janedoe5.htm
Furthermore, Juanita was in a weak position at the time because she was married to one man while carrying on a adulterous affair with another man
http://www.samsloan.com/accuser.htm
But the man Broaddrick was married to at the time, Gary Hickey, told NBC he did not remember the injury or her attempt to blame it on an accident.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/broaddrick022599.htm
As Fleetwood would say, I win!
Snarky – “Sebelius isn’t a Kansan”
There is a fundamental problem with that attitude. On other threads we have discussed economic development and the need to bring quality people to Kansas. People like you who believe that we who move here have no standing in this state are a problem. After all, how can I encourage someone to relocate here if you will always consider us to be outsiders?
Now about the claim that a Califonia school was segregated by gender to accommodate the Muslim students?
Oh yea, WSC, I remember that claim too? Kine of like the one I saw that Cho (the VTech killer) was Muslim and that Tim McVeigh was allied with Iraq. Or alQuada. Or both.
‘XM Radio’s Quinn & Rose made baseless claim that Dem leaders behind Sebelius links between war, Kansas Guard shortages’http://mediamatters.org/items/200705110002?f=h_top
Hannity said if the anon rumor is confirmed, Sebelius should be removed from office. And Howard Dean removed from the DNC.
Let’s have a court case, and get the phone records…
And did the DNC call the Republican governors, and ask THEM to complain about their NG shortages? /sarcasm OFF
Yes, Cho Seung-Hui is a common Sunni Arab name. His full name is Osama Cho Seung-Hui bin Laden.
“As Fleetwood would say, I win!”
I just read Sloan’s biography.You lose.
I’ll take that apology now, GRM.
I also linked the Washington Post Fleetie. The article was from the time that they were in full impeach Clinton mode.
Argue with that one.
Besides, there are TONS of links that support my position – Bill Clinton did NOT rape Juanita Broaddrick – no matter how much you want it to be true.
When things get tough for a liberal they call out the top guns. Hi farmie and Ben. Liar is such a harsh word even though it is used frequently by many on this blog. I think the following talks for itself. You cheered as WS maligned a victim. Many in this nation believed what happened to Broadrick. She reacted as many trauma counselors would tell you is the normal response for a victim. Put yourself in her place, raped by the Governor of Arkansas, the door guarded by state police and she went to friends who wanted to go to authorities. She just wanted it to go away. But Bill couldn’t keep his zipper shut and got himself in more trouble and all of a sudden she was front page news and didn’t want to be.
“Like many rape victims, Juanita Broadrick came forward only when she couldn’t hide any more. For 20 years, Broadrick kept her terrible secret to herself and a few close friends until compelled to testify by the impeachment investigation as one of Bill Clinton’s five reluctant Jane Doe rape victims. Still, she said nothing until the press figured out who she was and began publicly speculating and spilling various details. Facing the impending revelations and the inevitable understanding that America might be better off knowing exactly what type of man they elected, Broadrick broke down and allowed NBC’s Lisa Myers to conduct an investigation.”
http://www.americandaily.com/article/1400
Presented by no less than NBC’s Lisa Myers.
By the way I have been looking for the article about segregation. I came across it while looking for something else and didn’t earmark it. Don’t even try to say that I thought Tim McVey was associated with Iraq. I lost friends and family in that bombing and know just where he came from.
Spin on liberals. I’m glad you are in the position of defending Clinton and not me.
WS, you might win the boobie prize. Sloan and The National Enquirer as you sources. Give me a break. All Sloan said was that she couldn’t bring charges at this late date. She NEVER wanted to.
I saw a headline in the supermarket the other day that Condi was having an affair with GW. I guess you believe that one also.
Of course you are from the party that followed Teddy Kennedy when he tried unsuccessfully to toast Clarence Thomas. Trying to make us believe that Anita Hill followed him to 3 different jobs AFTER he has sexually harrassed her.
Collect you prize now WS.
“Many in this nation believed what happened to Broadrick.”
Many also believed Tawana Brawley. Also the Duke accuser. That dos NOT make them true!
ksgrm – did not say that YOU made that association with McVeigh; just that it has been done out there. Just like with Cho.
Gee, I didn’t know that I was a “big gun”!
Of course you are Ben. But I have noticed when a lib is losing an argument or at least is unable to confirm their point that the rest begin to chime in with ‘liar, liar’.
Brawley was shown to have lied. This was never the case with Broadrick. She just wanted to get on with her life. She never wanted the attention she got. Her lawyer son told her that the story was going to come out and if she wanted the truth told she should tell her story.
Maybe Clinton just thought it was rough sex!
I think we should all be confined to using the Weekly World News as the only source to cite. It’d be so much less tedious.
Ben, I’ll call her a Kansan when she acts like one.
I think we should all be confined to using the Weekly World News as the only source to cite. It’d be so much less tedious.
Ben, I’ll call her a Kansan when she acts like one.
Nice try, Grm, you asked to a link – I gave you the Washington Post – now you dismiss it as being the “National Enquirer.”
In other words, you lost but once again you refuse to admit it.
As I have said before, you do this all the time. You post stuff that has no foundation in fact and then refuse to admit it when you are proven wrong.
Same stuff, same Grm, different day.
ksgrm – until Clinton is proven guilty in a Court of Law I place him (in regards to this accusation) in the same catagory as the Duke lacrosse players. I guess back when i took high school civics I was taught innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is upon you.
snarky – I think Sebelius IS acting like a Kansan