With a Sedgwick County casino vote on the horizon, the speculation has already started as to where it would be sited, if approved by voters. Here are a few of the ideas and arguments we’ve heard people talking about so far:
– Convert the Kansas Coliseum. It needs a new role, this argument goes, and would be next to the Wichita Greyhound Park (now with slots!), Wild West World and other Park City attractions.
– Adopt Bob Knight’s site and proposal near Park City.
– Add a casino to the west side of Century II. One developer group has already proposed it.
– Tear down Lawrence-Dumont Stadium. That might have been unthinkable a year ago, but the pending move of the Wranglers baseball team leaves the charming ballpark without an anchor team or much reason to exist after this season. And the location would be a huge boost for WaterWalk and Century II.
– Use the former Derby Coastal refinery site west of I-135 along 21st Street. This could be a very visible, accessible area that could benefit the planned 21st and Broadway area redevelopment.
– Cowtown. Large river site. Troubled attraction. You do the rest.
Heard any other ideas?
Posted by Randy Scholfield
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73 Comments
Cowtown would be my first choice. It’s a scenic site, close to many hotels and downtown business. There are also other attractions in the immediate area that people could come to visit.
The Cowtown area would be a good site because it would be easier to police and provide security.
It would also enable the Casino to have larger parking areas.
Casinos near a river is a natural flow.
Although, I’m not a gambler, that’s how I would do it.
The Coliseum may have a chance to exist many years more. We need to TWO Arena’s to get the Big 12 basketball tournament some future day.
The building needs total improvements, more seating and reconfigured interior, a better more attractive shell.
The Downtown Arena needs to be 18,000 seats to get a future Big 12 basketball tournament. It’s not possible with a 15,000 seat downtown arena.
Same event goes to Kansas City, Dallas and Oklahoma City right now.
I think we need TWO arena’s to be on that list for the Big 12 tournament as it travels around.
The Coliseum with 12,000 seats, the downtown arena with 18,000 seats. The Coliseum will still do “dirt” shows.
County can’t run two arena’s or afford them properly long term without business partnership.
There would be slots in the Casino and can’t be next door to the dog track with slot machines. That’s not workable at all.
Casino in Sedgwick County should be downtown. Best Hotel, The Hyatt, in the County should be sold to the Casino group. Sell the Library building too. They want to move west side of the river.
Someone mentioned future Library in the Watkins Steel lot.
Century II casino shows I imagine, not slot machines in that building.
No way tear down Lawrence-Dumont because we desire the NBC tournament as Wichita summer baseball event, forever. It needs to be updated with chair back seats for all. Concession area improved.
Get anyone to use the Refinery land, good luck! No Casino would want to be over there.
Casino has to be near hotels.
Cowtown doesn’t belong in the Casino conversation.
Best place for a downtown casino is around the Century II, Hyatt Hotel, Library area.
Bob Knight Casino is a Native American project that has federal decisions to be made. It’s not likely an out of state tribe could open a casino here.
It has to be in the WaterWAlk area and within walking distance of the center of it. Think Bricktown in Oklahoma City, with ballpark and Basspro using same parking lot. There must be critical mass to draw everyone to the same locations. DO NOT put it out at the coliseum or anywhere else that requires a specific trip to go there. ALL things must be in the downtown area. Century II could be it..or as you stated next door. But if its placed out of the way then you draw people away from other things – if you tire of the noisy slots, go outside and grab eats or drinks or shop next door etc. You dont want people getting out and leaving the area. Once they park they want to go from one place to the other. Perhaps as the RiverWalk in San Antonio. Put the restaurants and clubs and botiques right on the river frontage.
If the Casino is approved and built, why wouldn’t it be like the one in Kansas City?
“An official with Penn National Gaming previously said the hotel would have at least 500 rooms, have a Hollywood theme and be modeled on the company’s62,000-square-foot Argosy Riverside Casino nearKansas City, Mo. He said it would employ 1,700 people.”
That’s 500 hundred additional hotel rooms for Wichita. It is also more employment for Wichita
The best place would be next door to the Wichita Eagle.
Every day Eagle employees could visit the casino to “invest” their earnings. In fact, the Eagle and McClatchy could take all their corporate earnings every day to the casinos to “invest” those earnings, too. Doesn’t the Eagle want to benefit from casinos just like all the hardworking Kansans at the casinos will be benefiting?
By regularly investing their earnings in the casino, the Eagle will be benefiting and helping the State of Kansas, right?
Or, why not randomly find 100 recent Kansas visitors to casinos anywhere, and write all the success and failure stories? Document EXACTLY how these 100 folks, and society in general, will have benefited from the gaming. The majority of these 100 folks will have made money by gambling, right? The lives of the majority will be much better and they’ll be richer because of their casino experiences, right? Or, the Eagle doesn’t want to take that bet, but they want good, hardworking Kansans to take that bet?
Cancel the proposed white elephant downtown ice hockey arena thereby saving Sedgwick County taxpayers $300,000,000.33 of unneeded waste of sales taxes.
Then use the site for the proposed gambling casino. This would combine the gambling function with Old Town, a natural combination. Post police cars at all entrances and exits to this new recreational venue area to check for over-indulgent participants.
Re-prioritize spending of approximately $200,000,000.12 of sales tax savings to provide many county-wide needs of Sedgwick Countians, a list to lengthy to itemize here.
But the list would include remodeling the Kansas Coliseum, building a larger downtown Convention Center near the Arkansas River, building a larger library, RETAIN Lawrence-Dumont Stadium for a future baseball team, provide needed public improvements out in county such as Main Street improvements in the smaller town centers, etc. Saw off the offending curves and triangles of the Exploration Place building to help it blend into the downtown Wichita sky scape.
Organize a new blue ribbon citizens committee … not Hank from Florida’s Wichita Visioneering group … to do the prioritizing.
Combine Sedgwick County and Wichita City governments. Then tear down one of the two then unneeded office buildings and replace with the Old Cowtown Museum.
Build a new downtown riverside INTERNATIONAL BOWLING CENTER complete with all the bells and whistles that would draw visitors to Wichita from all over the world making Wichita truly an international city.
Remodel the Wichita downtown Railroad Union Station into a …. railroad station for the new Wichita–Oklahoma–Texas streamliner passenger service to provide train service to Phoenix and the west coast and Florida.
Oh, wait a minute. I’m just dreaming of some of the great possibilities that could happen if the downtown arena boondogle is summarily canceled.
I pass by the old refinery site at 21st and MLK highway. That would be a great location for a casino or even an arena since it’s next to a highway and there is ample space for parking.
Since casinos attract a lot of out of town business locating next to a highway makes more sense since tourists aren’t familiar with downtown. An off the highway casino means tourists can find it easier and can attract those passing through on their way to OKC.
Speaking as an out-of-towner…
Someone really needs to tear down that refinery anyway, why didn’t they propose that site for the new arena?
I would hope they’d make sure it’s cleaned up first.
Accessibility is the biggest draw I’m telling you. So the Coliseum would be a good idea too- but I’m still miffed that the Arena is going downtown where it’s going to bongle up traffic and no parking. Dipsheets who proposed that area for it.
I don’t even know where the Lawrence Dumont stadium is- nor do I know where Cowtown is.
BY JWINK
Political mom: I presume you once lived in Wichita even though apparently now live elsewhere?
Anyway, appropriately today is Easter. Lawrence-Dumont baseball stadium, Old Cowtown and the Kansas Coliseum are some of the publicly-owned, colorfully decorated EASTER EGGS that our so-called political leaders would like to implode to make way for a few BIG GOOSE EGGS.
Lawrence-Dumont baseball stadium, one of our great and historic “Easter Eggs,” is located on the west bank of the Arkansas River with a wonderful view of the downtown Wichita skyline. The opening Wranglers games, delayed by cold weather, were finally played last night.
Originally called Lawrence Stadium, it was built in about 1935 or so to replace a wooden baseball stadium that burned down. The old stadium was located on an island in the Arkansas River west of the Broadview Hotel and north of and accessable from the Douglas Avenue Bridge.
Lawrence Stadium was later renamed Lawrence-Dumont Stadium to honor Ray “Hap” Dumont, long-time manager of Wichita baseball. The wonderful history of Hap Dumont and Lawrence-Dumont Stadium is told in a locally produced book, BASEBALL’S BARNUM written by Bob Broeg for The Center for Entrepreneurship at Wichita State University, 1989.
Lawrence-Dumont has been used by a succession of professional baseball “farm” teams. The home team is currently the Wranglers, a AA farm team of the Kansas City Royals. Unfortunately, 2007 will be the final year for the Wranglers in Wichita because they are moving to Springdale, Arkansas at the end of this season.
Lawrence-Dumont Stadium is also the home of the National Semi-Pro Baseball Congress “world series,” currently held in the first two weeks of August. Hopefully this historic annual tournament will continue in Wichita for many years.
In recent years, under the guidance of former Wichita Lawrence-Dumont operations manager, Steve Shaad, a unique outdoor baseball display museum was assembled around the outfield of L-D Stadium which tells the story of Wichita baseball.
The City of Wichita owns Lawrence-Dumont Stadium. But the baseball operations, both the Wranglers and the NBC tournament, are owned by Bob and Mindy Rich of Buffalo, New York, owners of a very profitable food distribution business.
Bob and Mindy Rich are a wonderful sports minded couple whose contribution to Wichita has tended to be much stronger than Wichita’s return to the Riches. I recall one warm summer evening when several loyal Wrangler’s fans and I sat with Bob and Mindy Rich in the “hard ball cafe stands” to watch a 16?? inning game played out into the wee hours of the morning. Don’t remember now who won that long game but do remember Bob and Mindy stuck it out with the rest of us!!
Lets hope Lawrence-Dumont Stadium and the great old Kansas Coliseum and Old Cowtown don’t fall victim to pie-in-the-sky wishes by mis-guided politicians to site or pay for the proposed $300.000,000.14 downtown WHITE ELEPHANT ICE HOCKEY ARENA OR A GAMBLING CASINO.
If we must have gambling, I desperately hope that first, the state of Kansas doesn’t insist on owning the casinos. Can you imagine anything more dreary than a government-owned casino? Why, in Canada, where the casinos are owned by the state, I read they don’t serve free drinks to the gamblers.
Second, I hope there is more than one casino. We need competition, so that gamblers get a good deal.
Third, don’t pin hopes on gambling as economic development. We should have gambling because in a free society dedicated to personal liberty, people should be able to gamble. But I don’t think the inflated miracle economic development claims of supporters will be realized.
Meadowlark should stop whining about the Eagle, and start his own newspaper. I’m certain his conservative-radical views will find a gigantic audience in Kansas, and he will become fabulously wealthy as a result. Then he can buy a nice house in Johnson County and sit behind a computer and pontificate about people’s private lives and private choices day in and day out.
Oh wait…
FORGET THE CASINO, GIVE YOUR MONEY TO THE POOR PEOPLE IN OUR STATE.IF YOU NEED SOMEONE TO GIVE YOUR MONEY TO THEN I COULD REALLY USE IT
Mrage’s hope for a Big 12 basketball tournament is, alas, a mirage. It isn’t going to happen. Wichita isn’t home to a Big 12 team, nor is it reasonably close to one.
Wichita doesn’t have anything close to the hotel rooms needed, nor the restaurants desirable, to get the Big 12 tournament. It doesn’t have a convenient air-travel offerings, for example Southwest Airlines service which connects more than a dozen Texas cities to Dallas, Oklahoma City and Kansas City. Wichita doesn’t have a large taxi fleet, nor an adequate mass-transit system, which are essential.
The American Airlines Center in Dallas is conveniently located for 4 of the Big 12 teams. Dallas has ginormous hotel facilities, and is among America’s “Top 10 restaurant cities”. Kansas City is conveniently located amidst 3 Big 12 teams (45 minutes to about 2 hours drive) and has excellent air connections, many hotels and great restaurants. There are also very large numbers of KU, KSU and Mizzou alumi living in the KC metro area. Oklahoma City has 2 Big 12 teams less than an hour’s driving time distant, lots of OU and OSU (and thousands of Texas’s Big 12 schools’) alumni, and adequate hotel rooms and restaurants.
This doesn’t mean that Wichita can’t land the Missouri Valley men’s and women’s tournaments–by all means this looks absolutely feasible, albeit only once every 4-5 years, which isn’t going to substantially defray the costs of the arena, but nevertheless every visitor dollar counts.
For Big 12 basketball tourneys, Fogettaboutit. Wichita isn’t nearby to any Big 12 campus. Wichita has a small fraction of Kansas City, Oklahoma City and Dallas MSA’s KU and KSU alums.
The Wichita School Board used to have KU and KSU alums. Not anymore. Sharon Fearey is a KSU grad. The city council has no other Big 12 city council member. Do you think Mrs. Fearey will be able to lobby effectively to get the Big 12’s board to give Wichita a championship tournament?When was the last Wichita mayor a KU or KSU alum? The 1970s. Wichita has no “juice” in the Big 12.
We have Wichita State University, a Missouri Valley team. So, go for the MV championship tournament. That’s realistic.
Correction, I meant to say:
Wichita has a small fraction of Kansas City, Oklahoma City and Dallas MSA’s Big 12 alums.
The KC MSA has multitudes more KU and KSU alums than Wichita.
What is all this nonsensical talk about “state-owned” casinos? Nothing of the sort was authorized by the legislation that was passed. The state will license and regulate the few casinos that will be built. Why do you think INVESTORS like Phil Ruffin want to pay millions to the state in order to receive a license to build and operate a casino? Ruffin or whoever is the licensee will own the license, own the property and own the profits – doesn’t sound like the state is gonna own anything except the fees and taxes resulting from the license contract.
To understand, kelly, all you have to do is be able to read. From The Kansas City Star, April 3, 2007:
“The Kansas Senate by a one-vote margin last week passed and sent to Gov. Kathleen Sebelius legislation that would allow slot machines at three racetracks and up to four state-owned casinos.”
Understand, now? If you are to have an opinion, at least let it be an informed opeinion.
Anon – The newspaper was wrong. Instead of placing so much detailed importance on two-words in a newspaper, tell me what the legislation says.
Kelly – I think anon is correct; the legislation mandates state-ownership of some sort – through the Lottery I think. I think the mechanism is that the investers would build/operate under some sort of contract with the State.
I would concede this argument if someone would cite the legislative language that confirms that the state will own the casino, or the land on which the casino will operate, or the profits/liabilities from doing business. I have a professional license that the state conferred on me when I met licensure requirements, but the state doesn’t own me, my business, my office, or my liabilities/revenues. Is it a license that Phil Ruffin will own or not? Does the state own your automobile when they give you a license to drive?
Cite me some statutory language.
The gaming facilities (casinos) will be privately owned. The gaming business inside those gaming facilities will be owned by the State of Kansas.
Think of how the Kansas Lottery tickets and machines exist inside private businesses. The State owns the machines and the tickets, and regulates how the tickets are sold, including the type of and design of the facility that sells them. The State owns the proceeds, owns the equipment, owns the tickets. The stores just handle the ticket sale transactions on behalf of the State.
The casinos are an expansion of this basic concept. Think of the blackjack tables in the casinos as lottery machines in QuikTrip.
If you really want all the facts, Anon, read the bill. SB66 is located at http://www.kslegislature.org/bills/2008/66.pdf
Build the casino in Sumner County. We have the perfect spot near the turnpike.
Don,
Sedgwick County voters get first shot at the casino. If we vote it down, it goes to Sumner by default. Of course, there’s talk of a trailer bill that would remove Sumner County from the counties where a casino could be built.
Ironic, given that Sumner voters have already approved a casino in that county.
The Library!
Let the developers buy it out and pay for the new one.
That if the casino can pass in Sedgwick County.
I’m assuming the fundies will be out in full force to try to vote it down.
I propose that the Casino be located in my livingroom. The ‘fridge is close by so you can grap a beer or soda as you walk in. I am a good cook so I can whip up a burger or a steak if you’re hungry. My coach is real comfy and I have an wide screen HD TV if you want to catch a ballgame or such. There is plenty of on the street parking available.
All I ask is that you keep shoving those $$$ into the slot machines. If you need a break from the slots, we can play a couple of hands of blackjack (my cards) at the dining room table.
If your luck is running bad, there is a Pay Day loan joint a few blocks away and a Pawn Shop is within easy walking distance if you lose your car at the tables.
Sound like a deal?
Did you know that Casinos is where people put their social security and welfare cash to?
The library, west side C-II, north side Broadview all look like interesting locations to me. Tom – thanks for the clarification on ownership. I will defer to guys like Kelly for the details but definitely recelled reference to some sort of state ‘ownership’
Anyone who thinks that a casino in rural Sedgwick County can be successful obviously has not lived in Sedgwick County for more than a year or two. I’ve lived here for 46 years, my whole life, and I can promise you that there is only one place a Sedgwick County casino can be profitable…downtown Wichita.
It should be placed downtown near the hotels, Century II, the new arena and other attractions. Tourist- most of whom stay in the city center- will not go clear out in the middle of the country to a casino.
“Meadowlark should stop whining about the Eagle, and start his own newspaper.”
Meadowlark monitors a blog.
http://www.kansasmeadowlark.com/2006/07-03/index.htm
Meadowlark knows a lot, but his being an apologist for Kline and other far-right Republican aberations does detract from what he legitimately knows. As evidence for this opinion, see above post.
Maybe some of the WE reporters can join in here, but I thought I heard on TV that a deal had been cut that would give the casino to SG county and give some extra cut to SU county to avoid all the hassle of voting etc. Plus anybody with a nit of sense would not sit down and intentionally think…”lets see, where would I find more money…South Haven…or Wichita…?”
Are there no grown-ups involved in this…
As far as ownership , the state could own it OK, but let a professional group manage it such as Harrahs, or one of Wynns groups.
But the indians are going to sue since it is upsetting their little racket up in Potawottamie Co. area….You cant have competition you know…those monopolies are wonderful…if you are on the receiving end.
What Im afraid of is if the state runs it they will try to make if “safe” and or “family friendly” which would ruin it. This is for adults, and should have all kinds of shows from Vegas. And that might offend some of the thumpers here….but the whole enterprise will offend them so move on. Hopefully there will be bare breasts involved eventually…maybe with feathers.
Tom, that’s quite a long hair to split, isn’t it? I did not read the lengthy bill, but I will trust your explanation. Then I will ask why the newspapers did not explain this.
If I were a casino developer, I would not be happy with such an intertwined relationship, would you?
I can just imagine all the inteference the state will want.
If the state wants to maximize its revenue from gambling, it should let casino operators be free to run things as they see fit.
After all, the more the casino operators make, the more the state makes, is that true?
And we should have more than one casino, so that the casinos have to compete for gamblers’ business.
One can read HR 5023 and SB 66 if they want to know the particulars.
With SB66, an 98 page amendment was sneaked at the last minute.
State Sponsored and State Owned were phrases bantered about and I suspect that one is significant in meaning from the other, but I haven’t found the language describing either.
I suspect that language is in an amendment that has yet to be transcribed.
With out the knowledge of what is said on phrases yet to be described to the citizens of Kansas I will be voting no on destination Casinos.
So much for an open records act…
Someone was sure in a hurry to get this passed.
Mrage – there will be NO Big 12 Men’s tourney in Wichita. It ain’t gonna happen – no way no how. Get used to it.
MAYBE Wichita can get Big 12 women – MAYBE. And MAYBE Wichits can get MVC.
However, that is clearly NOT a reason to have TWO basketball/hockey facilities.
Republican:
HCR5023 was the House Fed & State Affairs Committee’s idea of a bad joke.
First, it’s important to remember that Fed & State is a sinkhole of radical conservatives. It is used almost solely as a committee to run bills the majority (not to be confused with Majority) would never vote for.
Second, HCR5023 was meant only as a maneuver to stop SB66 from being implemented. It would have implemented a “commission” to “study” the “feasibility” of expanded gaming. This commission would have done nothing, and would have been yet another end-run around the desire of Kansans to vote on casinos in their counties.
And your assertion that a “98 page amendment was sneaked in at the last minute” is, I’m sorry, just silly. You don’t “sneak” an amendment that size onto any bill in the Legislature; you’d be just as able to sneak an elephant through the floor of the House chamber.
“In a hurry to get this passed”?? SB66 was introduced on January 11…three days after they convened. It’s been debated, amended, debated, voted, conference committeed, and debated some more. Don’t forget that it’s an issue that’s come up year after year at the Statehouse. This idea, and this bill, are about as thoroughly worked as anything the Legislature does.
One final note: It’s your party, Republican, who controls both houses. You have a 30-10 majority in the Senate, and a 78-47 majority in the House. If you don’t like the representation you’re getting, I suggest you work to change it.
That’s what I’m doing. :)
Republican – what you are looking for is in the State Constitution. When the lottery was passed the opinion is that it also meant casinos. The state has to own and operate the lottery so that means the state has to own and operate the casinos.
I’ve read SB66 which is the bill everyone is so excited about. It does not have to talk about state owned and operated because it uses language that is probably in violation of the constitution by saying something about the state hiring private companies to manage the casinos and the slots.
The WE and other media should be outraged about the way this was passed. There was no public discussion because it was done as an amendment on the house floor and the senate did not even have any say in it because they were not allowed to offer any amendments to the bill because of some procedural move by the authors of the bill.
This whole thing was done in a very secretive and sleazy way. If they have to sneak around about its no wonder the bill has some flaws. Why would the Governor sign a bill knowing that it is flawed? Does anyone know what the flaws are? There is supposed to be a trailer bill that fixes them and gives the payoff to Senator Terry Bruce in Hutchinson and Senator Goodwin from Wellington the things they wanted. They were promised things to vote for the gambling bill. They should have to explain what they were getting for their vote.
Anonymous:
I’m not splitting any hairs. There’s going to be more going on in these casinos than slot machines and card games. There will be restaurants, live entertainment, hotels, shops, etc. Just like when you go to QuikTrip, where they also sell gas, pop, coffee, and other sundries. Again, the casinos will be privately owned, and the gaming operation will be owned by the state and managed by the casino owners/operators. When you buy your QuikTrip lottery ticket, it’s not some State employee who sells it to you.
I don’t know why you’re asking me why the newspapers did a poor job of reporting this. I don’t work for a newspaper.
I don’t know why you’re asking me what the casino owners will think of this. I don’t work for them, either.
Sotheysaid:
Does the State of Kansas own and operate every Dillons in Kansas? Every QuikTrip? Every gas station, convenience store, gift shop, and diner where lottery tickets are sold?
No, of course not.
I should have said, Tom, those were rhetorical questions. Sorry to bother you.
Mark & Ben,
If you people would stop being so myopic that Wichita “doesn’t have” and shouldn’t have, or couldn’t have, is bull.
Consider Wichita as the only place in state of Kansas, that the Big 12 Conference basketball tournament could ever be.
If the County gov and business partnership is running two arena’s. Constructing to new arena’s together.
That’s a real maybe. Not wishful thinking.
Why does it have to happen in Wichita, because the state of Kansas has TWO Big 12 schools in her borders. KU or KSU could easily be hosts of the event.
Shouldn’t KSU someday host the Big 12 tournament. Because I’m sure KU will get to share that with Missouri at the Sprint Center.
The Sprint Center can’t be allowed to lock that basketball tournament up, like it was at Kemper Arena.
Kemper Arena used many citizens from Kansas over the year to make their profit.
We need facilities and events to pull them over here. Pull everyone from the Big 12 to Wichita occasionally.
KSU is the one Big 12 school shut out from ever hosting, because Wichita fails to have the facilities.
Would the MVC require two arena’s or not. One for the men’s and women each, seems reasonable.
No game would be played at Koch. It’s 10,000 seats knocks that facility out consideration.
Coliseum rebuilt with 12,000. Downtown arena with 18,000.
The State of Kansas should have those facilities to promote for events. Think larger than just Sedgwick County, though most of the spending for our arena’s will come from here, locally.
I’ll let “Dayna” a Commissioner in the Big 12 tell me, Wichita will never be considered for that basketball tournament, no matter if build two arena’s.
I have the question to her right now.
My goal is to build a new stadium for WSU football and to someday attract the Big 12 football championship game.
Because the State of Kansas should have that kind of facility for big events. Bigger than the Sprint Center, but smaller than Chiefs stadium.
Some NFL stadiums with 80,000 seats are too large for the Big 12 championship football game to fill.
It takes 50,000 seats to play Division 1 football, some exemptions exist, but the goal is more seating for Division 1 games is better. I’m wanting a convertible seating stadium, that expands to 65,000. We won’t need that many seats all the time.
Its a decade away and I’m planning Wichita, Sedgwick County and surrounding counties will continue to grow.
The state of Kansas should have sports facilities where the Big 12 can have Championship games, basketball and football.
Wichita should be that place.
I still say the best place for a Casino is at the Broadview Hotel.
IF IF IF …
Mrage, that is all you have, a lot of IF’s. YOU get your 18,000 seat Arena. YOU get the Big 12 to decide to be in Wichita. YOU have your visions that border on hallucination.
Meanwhile, I will stick with reality. That 15,000 seat Arena will NOT host Big 12 men. Women MAYBE. MVC MAYBE.
By the way – I think it is Big 12 and NCAA policy that men’s and women’s NOT be in the same location in the same year. So, your whole thesis is moot.
Ben,
How did OKC get both the mens and women’s Big 12 conference tournament.
I said nothing about NCAA March Madness games for men and women.
An 18,000 seat arena is better on the list for March Madness games, than a 15,000 seat arena.
The reality planned for today as it exists, WSU would have to make the March Tournament and have a First Round game scheduled in the downtown arena with 15,000 seats.
I haven’t heard the MVC tournament could move around, but the Big 12 already has and looks forward to doing it more often.
WSU doesn’t have to win anything but Wichita could still get Big 12 tournaments and March Madness games based on seating in the arena with 18,000 seats.
Let me know when you get them to build your 18K seats. Ain’t gonna happen. MARK MY WORDS!
Ben,
I won’t mark your words at all on this topic.
Its a business decesion. If time has run out on upgrading the downtown arena, with 15,000 seats, the chance still exists at the Coliseum location.
Tear it down and build an 18,000 seat arena, plus dirt show ability facility in that location.
Many still like that location.
Can business prosper in a partnership with County running two arena’s.
I truly don’t care, downtown or the Coliseum location, long as we get both properly sized arena’s for our long term use and event possibilities.
It’s not reasonable to me, to just build a 15,000 seat arena, with regional arenas having 18,000 seats.
Hey!! You could put it in Derby next to Michelle’s Beach House! That way the tourist could get the whole sin experience with one stop shopping!
BTW Wichita State needs to bring back a credible football program and build a 60,000 seat stadium for it>
Mrage – ain’t gonna happen. Mark ‘em or not, I will be proved right.
I still say the best place for a Casino is at the Broadview Hotel.
Posted by: Ben Huie | April 08, 2007 at 06:45 PM
Best idea I have heard yet. Ben, if this happens, we need to buy up those defunct parking garages around the Broadview.
And we’d have to make sure people paid in advance, before they went into the casinos.
Why not turn Century II, (Expo. Hall) into a casino and use the new arena for large conventions. The casino would be connected to the Hyatt Hotel and the other half of Century II could be used for shows. The proceeds from the casino could be used to support all of the white elephants (Science Center, Ice Rink, Indian Center and the Art Museum) in and around the city.
The casino CAN SURVIVE in the country. All you have to do is look at the Windstar Casino near the Oklahoma-Texas state line. It is on I-35 and it has doubled in size since it first opened. Ironically there are NO large towns nearby.
Therefore, it CAN survive in Sumner county. Besides yall have your new arena in Wichita that is being built.
At the airport. In the secure area.
Think, fools! There are casinos everywhere. They’re a dime a dozen. An ordinary casino will only attract people for whom the drive to Wichita is shorter than the drive to the next nearest casino. In other words, you’ll get people from as far away as Emporia. Big Whoop.
If you want the casino to contribute to the economy of Kansas, and not just siphon off money into the pockets of casino developers and tax collectors, you need to draw customers from FAR AWAY. The way to do this is to make it really convenient for travelers.
So: Build a giant Hotel/Casino at the airport, INSIDE the secure area — or at least, inside a partly secured area that allows hotel guests to board flights without the full-blown shoe treatment.
Gamblers will be able to fly into Wichita, lose their money, and leave again, without going through security.
Business travelers, also, will be able to fly in, have meetings, and leave again without going through security.
If this hotel/casino splits its profits with the airline that brings in the most passengers per day, I guarantee it won’t be long before someone puts a hub in Wichita. And _that_ is the piece that will be good for the local economy.
Grayfox,
Watch out, many arena doubters hate it because the facility won’t do conventions properly.
Century II being sold is a real idea. The Hyatt should be sold, the city shouldn’t own it. Library folks want to move west of the river. City should sell that building.
Money from those city properties sold could build a new Convention Center and Library elsewhere.
I don’t think many people want Century II completely torn down.Remodeled interior for casino and shows use is preferred.—-
Don,
I have sympathy for Sumner County’s effort but if Sedgwick County is voting for a Casino, it’s not going to fail.
It’s our County choice and it has much to do with viability of our arena(s). Getting people to experience more attractions downtown Wichita.
There is an argument for way out there Casino, but Wichita is more well traveled to location across the state, for more people. Than those visiting Summner County.
Will Casino affect the airport, it must be nearer our airport.—-
Alden,
Some validity to what your considering but it might be too noisy having a Casino/Hotel constructed so near the airport.
We do want more flights to the airport for many reasons but experiencing more of Wichita is a valid point too. Downtown is a valued direction for our governments now. If the City has any influence, and they do, downtown is the likely location for a Casino.
Anonymous,
So you didn’t mean to ask me rhetorical questions – is that in the same way you didn’t mean to be condescending and snide to Kelly, when you hadn’t even bothered to read the legislation?
Don’t worry about answering. It’s rhetorical.
:)
Regarding a airport location for the Casino. I doubt it even possible to find enough land to put a Casino on at the Airport. Besides that, I agree it would be better located in downtown.
As for Selling CII, its not a bad idea, i just dont think it will happen. I like the idea of the Library going over at the old Watkins place, heck use the old warehouses already there for a cool industrial feel.
As for Mrage, he seems to have his head up in the clouds. It is not worth the costs to build a new arena AND rehab the Coliseum. You said “Watch out, many arena doubters hate it because the facility won’t do conventions properly. ”
I say, dam straight. I do nay say it because of that exact fact. you say we sell CII and Hyatt and build a new convention center else-ware… Where do you propose we build it? Why not build the new arena as a convention center with hotel built on like what was done in Topeka, KC, Omaha, and about every other major city across the country????
Mrage, you make a good arguement but as I have said it does not take hotels or arenas to draw casino patrons. Building near a major highway is the big draw. Again, look at Windstar and Prairie Band. These casinos are not located in a major city. It would make more sense to build near the turnpike in an area where there is land that is perfect for development such as here in Sumner county
Greystone – not a bad idea, but keep a lot of C-II for Music Theater etc. Maybe the expo hall part as casino and keep mary Jane Teall etc for shows. Or, for that matter, the Library as casino and C-II for shows.
Turn the entire complex from Broadview down through the Hyatt as convention/theater/casino/hotel complex. Through in the BoatHouse for a restaurant and rebuild the meeting rooms that were destroyed by the City for no good reason.
Where should the casino be put?
Hey, I got it!
Let’s put it in Las Vegas.
Tony,
If the Library could go in the Watkins Steel lot, what about that area behind it, to Seneca street.
Convention Center/Library building.
From Seneca to Sycamore street wide. Between Douglas and 1st Street. Everything goes.
Key Construction would have to move, but they would get business to build it.
That could be an area. But forget about a hotel connected. We would have the Library.
Maybe flip it so the Convention center can be seen from McLean Blvd. Library would be closer to Seneca.
What about parking…
Buy all the properties north of 1st street. Leave only that brick building on corner of Seneca and McLean Blvd.
—
Don,
I hear you, but again Sedgwick County has to turn down the Casino vote for Sumner County to be considered.
Who knows in the future. Expanded gambling could expand again to your County, after Sedgwick County builds one Casino.
Plus, Ruffin having slots at Greyhound Park.
Someday if state laws for casino’s are improved that Phil Ruffin likes for personal ownership, he might consider Sumner County.
Bob Knight’s tribal casino, don’t count on it.
Does Sumner County know some gambling group desiring to place one out there?
You may want one, but what Casino company likes your location?
They have to be $200 Million dollar destinations.
Another possible location for a casino: west bank of the River on the north side of Kellogg. And a possible name: Gold Mine …
mrage:
Your “plan” sounds interesting, let me think it through here a bit…
1) The land would probally be terribly expensive, there are allot of established businesses in that area. I bet it would cost 10x what the current arena would cost in land and buildings. BUT if you took all of the land between Mclean, Seneca and Douglass and exclude the “fringe buildings” i.e. Key construction, the Society of painters, the church there on Seneca, Joes carwash, basically anything that fronts Douglass and Seneca, I could see there being enough land to do something with. Take out Mclean and you have even more land, enough to build quite a complex that could include the Ampatheater. I like the idea of the library being on the grounds of Exploration place. This could allow someone to check out a book and go out to the park and read. I could see McLean dead end into Exploration Place from the west going east and Mclean dead end into LD Stadium in the south. Build a parking garage somewhere in the SouthWest corner of the property, toward Senica and Douglass as well as one prehaps behind that church at Douglass and the river, build a Ampatheater where the old West Bank stage used to be, build the library say, at the corner of 1st and where Mclean is now. Build a hotel/Convention center that streaches from behind the buildings of Delano on douglass that streaches up to the river on the north and east to the river/ampatheater/Exploration place on the east. Build the convenion center that looks small but is really large, blend it into the existing neighborhood, I think it could be really neat. Access issues on Senica would have to be addressed, but shouldn’t be that much of an issue.
2) Now, I think the only way to make a new convention center fly is to have a hotel connected, check anywhere else in the country and find me a convention center that is stand alone these days that’s in the black and ill retract everything I have said thus far. I think putting a convention center in “Delano” would be very beneficial to the “industry” and creating that synergy to making the River the focal point in downtown as well as the “entertainment district” already started with Ice Sports and LD Stadium. I think a study needs to be done to see if Mclean is even needed between Kellogg and say Seneca. I would like to see Mclean taken out, the land opened up to allow for more river side development. I.e. the San Antino River walk type thing. Should LD Stadium stay? I think so, I think it needs to go back to being used for football for highschool and JuCo type events in the Fall/Winter.
Ok, I rambled but let me throw it out there a bit for everyone… I bet we (the city) could find a Hotel guy to put up the cash for the hotel side, the convention side would be well worth the investment, especailly of someone else bought the Hyatt and CII buildings.
Let’s look at this sensibly. Enough people voted to have an areana downtown. What is being overlooked is the Coliseum has already been funded for renovation prior to the passage of the arena bill.
Park City is out of the running after their run ins with the county commisssioners but just outside Park City lies the yet to be renovated coliseum. It will still be at least four years before a casino goes in if voter approved so the coliseum is prime for the casino due to location, interstate access and no parking problems. With the hotels that have gone in in Park City already and at Wild West World and the planned hotel near the Greyhound Park, it really should be obvious where the casino should go.
Tony,
The money needed to redevelop the land in that area, has to come from sell of Century II, Library and the Hyatt.
Convention Center would face Mclean. Library would face 1st street.
I doubt any discussion of closing Mclean would happen.
I don’t know about an Amphitheater either. Take some buildings out north of 1st street, the could be some space for one.
Next to a parking lot but across the Street from Exploration place on that corner of Mclean and 1st street.
I didn’t remember the name of Society of Painters buildings but they could stay.
Parking would be in that area.
I think Joe’s car wash could stay as well. Behind Joes, parking back there created.
Frontage of buildings along Douglas would stay so the Delano street scape doesn’t change.
It’s not really changing the roads along 1st street or Seneca at all.
Its just redeveloping property behind Watkins Steel lot and along 1st street where Key Construction to Seneca land exists.
The Library and Convention Center don’t have to be connected, but next to each other.
If some developer can place a hotel in that area, I don’t see how. Forget Mclean closing.
—
I have to respond about Two Arena’s, for our long term event possibility reasons we must have two properly sized arena’s.
County can’t run them alone, business has to partnership. I can’t stand still and allow a 15,000 seat arena as the only one we’ll get.
We need an 18,000 seat arena as well. Its either put it downtown or at the Coliseum location. But the goal is to have two and afford them somehow for the longterm.
We can pass up the Big 12 or MVC basketball tournament future possiblities. If the MVC ever wants to try and move around. The Big 12 is and we must bid for that future event. 18,000 seats for basketball arena is higher on the list for March Madness games.
The County may not like Park City right now because of Dee, but they would appreciate a new arena in the Coliseum location. The dirt shows will continue to be out there.
I’m asking, everyday. County and business, is this a path we could take. 15,000 seat arena is not enough.
wrs,
The Coliseum location stays an arena in my planning. The Casino is going downtown.
Support this idea of Two Arena’s. Development stays in the Park City location with those access roads, people love.
For many in the County that hate idea going downtown, they could continue heading to the Coliseum location, like nothing has changed.
The Coliseum has to be radically improved. A whole new structure is necessary in that location.
The Brit Brown Arena is bye bye!
The pavilion will stay, the site where Brit Brown is right now can be turned into more RV/Camper sites. Also! A good large truck stop and greasy spoon for the truckers. That attracts a lot of people.
Fortunately, because of Mrage’s inability to piece together a coherent sentence, no one pays much attention.
By the way, Mrage, a spell checker can’t fix what you don’t know how to write. I suggest you seek adult remedial education in order to learn what you didn’t in grade school, much less in the colleges you attended.
n chose the letter n as his nic-name because to him it stands for “knowledge.”
What college did you go to, n?
Let me guess: nEBRASKA?
“County can’t run them alone, business has to partnership. I can’t stand still and allow a 15,000 seat arena as the only one we’ll get.”
Good luck with that Mrage. Joe! is correct; Britt Brown is bye-bye. The 15,000-seat downtown Arena is all there is going to be. No Big 12. Probably no March Madness. Maybe women’s Big 12 or March – MAYBE.
I don’t think the Arena will be economically viable – TWO of them would be even less so. Mrage, I ask you – other than maybe a basketball game once every several years what would a redundant second arena host?
Why would the Big 12 even come to Wichita? Who would the “host” instituition be?You should be happy to get the valley (MVC) tournament.Personally I would like to see a casino be something like that riverboats in Missouri, even if they are just the boats in moats, I like the way they look.
Ben,
>other than maybe a basketball game once every several years what would a redundant second arena host?
Dirt shows, monster trucks, rodeos. Dog shows. Gun show out there instead of being downtown.
Who knows. It will act any arena searching for events.
Bring back The WINGS, indoor soccer.
Concerts can be at both places same time. Rock downtown, Country at Coliseum location or vice versa.
There is a way to keep both running with events.
The Big 12 tournament could have a 5 year window of return. March Madness games whenever. High school events much as possible.
Koch arena may lose some business, strictly for WSU to use.
College basketball, WSU, KSU, KU whenever they could schedule. Downtown or out there.
Two teams could be playing same day. One in the afternoon downtown, the other out there in the evening.
—-
Mr. Kia
>Why would the Big 12 even come to Wichita? Who would the “host” institution be?
Either KU or KSU. KSU a lot of the time, because they never get host tournaments like KU does at Kemper in the past or at the future opening Sprint Center.
If its financially reasonable KSU and KU will play off campus games, in Wichita.
The Big 12 tournament comes here because we have the facilities to hold the tournament. It’s that simple.
Some teams in the Big 12 travel through Wichita all the time going to KU and KSU.
Since we don’t have the facilities, we can’t bid for that event.
Mrage – how is your “18,000″ coming? It’s going to be 15,000.
If there is going to be a casino in Sedgwick county , there are only really two viable options. One would be the Bob Knight plan in Park City. HIs plan IS a destination casino with PARKING- the one thing the downtown…anywhere does not offer.
Second, dump the arena and build a casino instead. There would probably be more revenue and world class entertainment generated by a casino instead of an empty building with no parking.
Personally..any thought of putting a casino downtown is stupid. If you want to see the crime rate increase, then do it. You get a lot of people in a small area-without transportation-walking the streets some winners most losers and you have a wonderful formula for crime to rise. But then, the people who voted for the arena will be the same ones who want this downtown. Downtown is NOT a place that I want to go with the ONLY exception of River Festival. Which brings me to another point. If you convert Century II into a casino-won’t that just trash the River Festival since almost all the events are centered around CII?
Get real people. Vote with Bob Knight in Park City.
I vote NO casino. Who really benefits? It won’t be any of you or me. What benefits have we received from the Lottery? Those stupid enough to pay it have one more tax.
We have been dazzled with the glamour of having a “Vegas-style” beautiful casino in our midst. Do I believe that will ever be the reality? Not as long as government has its strangle-hold grip on every aspect. If we’re going to open up gambling, we should really open it to ALL, not just the stinky rich that support whoever happens to be donating to the campaign of the governor.As to WHERE TO STICK THE THING, well I’m too much of a lady to say.