Newly released e-mails show, contrary to earlier claims, that the Justice Department had a list of replacement U.S. attorneys almost year before the prosecutors were fired, the Washington Post reported. Meanwhile, White House said that thousands of missing e-mails sent on Republican Party accounts may include some relating to the firings, the New York Times reported. The disclosure suggests that White House adviser Karl Rove and others may have used third-party e-mail accounts to circumvent record-keeping required by federal law.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
Registered?
Commenting on WE Blog now requires you to be a Kansas.com member. Use the links above to register, if you haven't already, or to log in.Contact us
Follow us
Daily Archives
-
Recent Comments
- Pleefer on Open thread 11/22
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/22
- Phantom on Open thread 11/22
- Phantom on Open thread 11/22
- Rage on Open thread 11/22
- Pleefer on Open thread 11/22
- Pleefer on Open thread 11/22
- cosmos_originally on Open thread 11/22
- Rage on Open thread 11/22
- Rage on Open thread 11/22
93 Comments
And this is a surprise to anyone because… ?
Or they may not have! There is a concern enough to do a curser check for it but other then that it is more smoke then substance I would think. it is on the face of it and nothing can be show soon it is more a witch hunt then a real investigation. The real question become is it in and of itself illegal for them to use a non governmental e-mail account to even do the discussions? When all is said, the administration still has the ace in the hold of they serve at the discretion of the President.
Are they trying to chip away at the bottom to get the top, of course so.
Writerdog,Basically, they have to keep all correspondence, email or snailmail. Remember, that is what got Nixon in trouble: the lost minutes. It’s against federal law to destroy it, or subvert the process by using 3rd party email to avoid records of communication.
This isn’t just about democrats going after the president, it’s about breaking the law. Which makes mrcontroversy’s comment dead on. This administration has repeatedly done everything they can to bypass the constitution, and seems to care less that it has.
So this may be the straw that breaks this administrations back, gets a totally unqualified person out of the white house, and can get someone in who respects the law, and can start on the healing process for this nation. Or at the very least, get this administration back under control.
boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2007/04/08/scandal_puts_spotlight_on_christian_law_school/?page=full
why did the Bush administration hire 150 of Pat Robertson’s law school grads?
Or are these just bargaining chips to prevent Rove and Miers going on the record?
http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_5661684
If they have nothing to hide why are they working do hard to hide it?
As the BushBots like to remind us, Clinton wasn’t impeached about the BJ; it was about lying about it.
This keeps “going and going” because the Dems are on a fishing expedition.
“If they have nothing to hide why are they working do hard to hide it?”
Hiding What Ben? They release 4000 emails on the topic with all WH officials.
What more do you want?
Oh, yes Carl’s head on a platter, that’s right, that is exactly what this is about, not policy, not legality, but politics. You just hate the BUsh Admin.
Again, Dems lead by hate mongering.
Reminds me of the Nixon Watergate tapes! This administration is FAR more criminal than Nixon’s was. We really need a Special Prosecutor appointed to sniff out who knew what and when they knew it. Hopefully Rove will see jail one day.
Come on Tyler, you Bush supporters were content to use the “nothing to hide” ploy when it came to illegal wiretaps. So what’s the problem with investigating this administration? Wouldn’t you want to know if they did something illegal? Surely you wouldn’t want criminal activity covered up. How will we know whether they did anything illegal (or not) if we don’t investigate? I would think all of the Bushies would want this cleared up. If the administration hasn’t done anything wrong, there’s nothing to worry about, right?
Most people don’t know this but for many corporations, use of 3rd party email is also illegal for company business. That is why many, if not most corporations block employee access to 3rd party email accounts like hotmail on their networks. That is because 3rd party email is not required to retain email but corporations are for legal purposes.
More …
“Agency weighed prosecutors’ politics
WASHINGTON – The Justice Department weighed political activism and membership in a conservative law group in evaluating the nation’s federal prosecutors, documents released in the probe of fired U.S. attorneys show.”
http://www.kansas.com/519/story/44043.html
That has to tell you how the Bush supporters feel. The White house admits it screwed up and can’t find emails that they were supposed to turn over, and Tyler says Dems just want to complain.
You know what Tyler, you’re damn right I want to complain. And I do want their heads on a platter after what they’ve done to this country. At least they deserve it, whereas Clinton did not. It was PURELY political going after Clinton. At least we want answers to why the Bush administration is so anti-America.
“Come on Tyler, you Bush supporters were content to use the “nothing to hide” ploy when it came to illegal wiretaps.”
Not illegal s the finding of the SCOTUS. SO you are wrong on that point.
“Agency weighed prosecutors’ politics”
SO WHAT> Bill CLinton fired 93 federal prosecutors and nobody is saying ANYTHING about that! Most all of those were political as well.
Some to head off the Troopers case against the Clinton’s.
You Dems say NOTHING about that. But he is “your guy” so it is OK.
What a bunch of losers!
“”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"
“At least they deserve it, whereas Clinton did not. It was PURELY political going after Clinton.”
So your argument there PMS is that the Bush admin handling of this was NOT political.
Get your argument straight.
You idiots are just political idealogues, and do not care about anything BUT the Democratic Party, at the expense of truth.
You manufacture lies and scandals where there is NONE!
The President CAN replace any or all of these positions for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER!!
So there is nothing illegal about it. Nothing at all.
“At least we want answers to why the Bush administration is so anti-America.”
Your party is the party of Anti American interests and terrorist supporters and underminers of the National SAecurity of the US.
You are the people that well, I cannot say it here, you are contemptable!
The Bushies are going to get caught just like Al Capone. They never got him for the big crimes like murder but the got him on tax evasion.
Same thing is going to happen here.
However, the last thing we need is Bush to be impeached and tossed out of office. He’s the best friend of the Dems right now. He keeps making a mockery of the presidency and a fool of himself and people are watching.
It’ll be better to wait for a stronger Democratic Congress and a Dem Pres and then bring ciminal charges after this joke of an administration is out.
“SO WHAT> Bill CLinton fired 93 federal prosecutors and nobody is saying ANYTHING about that! Most all of those were political as well.”
Tyler, Tyler, Tyler, you really don’t seem to get it. BUSH replaced the federal prosecutors when he took office just as Clinton did, and no one is saying boo about that either. The issue with this LATEST round of firings is that they simply seem to have been done after the prosecutors refused or failed to launch partisan “investigations” into Democratic “voter fraud” (but curiously not Republican efforts such as those to get around the Voting Rights Act). In other words, the White House and certain Senators tried to use federal attorneys to influence elections. While such requests are strictly legal, and firing the attorneys for not following the requests are strictly legal, they are also blatant attempts to disrupt and influence elections in their favor, and are so distasteful that any evidence that this administration flagrantly tried to use the Justice Department to hold onto a partisan advantage are political dynamite. Let’s face it, if the Justice Department becomes primarily a tool for the Executive Branch to enhance or hold onto its parties power, it subverts the very idea of justice. THAT is why the White House is so anxious to cover up e-mails and any advanced planning on this matter, because of the political damage they might cause. Even a lot of Republicans have found this revelation extremely distasteful. This is why this issue has found traction among quite a few REPUBLICANS.
And it reveals the horrible flaw in this administration. This administration’s priority of using the Executive Branch partisan advantage is almost unprecedented among Republicans and Democrats both (with the possible exception of the Nixon Administration). A man like Karl Rove (and yes, he really is THAT evil) should NEVER have been made White House Chief of Staff, because someone like him was never concerned with governance, and always concerned with winning the next election and hurting “the enemy”. He (and the Adminstration of which he was and still is a part) approached the tools of the Executive Branch as means to extending and holding onto political power, not as tools for governance (even from a conservative viewpoint). The strategy did work for a time, but now it is unraveling
The potential crimes come from covering up blatantly unethical behavior that would be politically costly to this Adminstration, not from the firings. But the fact of the matter is, the Adminstration did not want it made public just how cynical they were in firing attorneys that THEY originally appointed. That creates the motive for conduct that IS illegal.
Hey, Tyler–
Are you for or against stem-cell research?
The law is that top elected government officials have to keep their mail related to gov’t business.
If KKKarl set up “off the books” e-mail addresses to get around record keeping, that in itself is breaking the law.
IOKIYAR.
The great thing about computer crime is that even after the users think they have “erased” the information, the information can usually still be retrived.
Or at the very least, there would be log records of missing files . . .
E-mail is “evidence” mail.
“You idiots are just political idealogues, and do not care about anything BUT the Democratic Party, at the expense of truth.
You manufacture lies and scandals where there is NONE!
The President CAN replace any or all of these positions for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER!!”
. . . and your right-wing political rant isn’t a perfect example of the neo-con mentality?
Your party went after Clinton because he lied about a knobber. Both democrats AND republicans are going after bush for the lies he’s told.
While he does have the right to fire federal prosecutors, he does not have the right to do so under a cloak of lies or bypassed federal regulations and laws. It appears he, or his subordinates, did the above.
We DO NOT support terrorism by either foreign terrorists groups or their supporters, or by a president who thinks he has the legal footing to bypass the United States Constitution, which he doesn’t. I remember a remark he was quoted as saying, “It would be a lot easier if this was a monarchy.”
So, Tyler, who’s the “idiot” now? It sure ain’t the democrats. Just ask the majority of Iraqi citizens. They voiced their opinion earlier this week.
By the way, Tyler, why did we invade Iraq in the first place? Because bush and his cohorts lied to congress and the American people about WMD, yellow cake, and tried to deflect the truth, which included both oil and the fact sadaam threatened daddy’s life.
If terrorism is the root cause of the invasion, why did we not invade Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Syria, Iran (coming soon to neo-con disaster near you), or any other country with a dictator?
Give me a break: you have no clue about how intelligent life thinks, you’ve been brainwashed by the like of rush, coulter and their ilk.
Someone upthread called this a “witch hunt.” Um…when the magic broomsticks are falling out of the air and landing on people’s heads, it’s not geese we’re going to be hunting.
I find the term “fishing expedition” used by pro fishermen to be highly ironic and hypocritical, not to mention amusing.
Thanks for the chuckle, Tyler!
Kev you are so wrong about why corporations don’t allow third party email accounts. Hotmail.com and others like them are known to be loaded with virus, some harmless and some not so harmless. THey are protecting their network.
“The disclosure suggests that White House adviser Karl Rove and others may have used third-party e-mail accounts to circumvent record-keeping required by federal law.”
Can anyone say ‘fishing expedition’? The key word here is MAY. This isn’t a news article. It is a hatchet job by a willing accomplice media. Editorials don’t belong on the front page in banner headlines.
If they search long enough they might uncover something they could call harmful and then the hearings could began. I’m sure they can stretch them out for the next 18 months. Lets see this will take us into the next election wouldn’t it? Imagine that.
Is anyone really surprised that the political advisor has deleted some emails. He is political – get it. He is giving political advise. They are very aware the problems others have faced when their email accounts became on the record.
This is just a high tech Watergate. You don’t have to break into campaign headquarters to get the goods on the other party – just have them handed over because a congress and senate w/a new majority and an agenda said you had to.
The ‘new congress’ has passed their 100 days and what have they accomplished as promised. All I can see is that my gas went up over 20 cents in the last 2 weeks.
Judges serve at the pleasure of the prez. If you can say even one was pulled from a case in progress so it couldn’t go forward, lay it out. If not move on and do what you were elected to do.
JMOHO, Grm
Ksgrm,
Many corporations have policies against using email other than company email on company computers, and it’s not just about viruses. They don’t want employees wasting time, for one thing. For another, private email can be used to move internal data out of the company by dishonest employees.
“Is anyone really surprised that the political advisor has deleted some emails.”
ksgrm–what part of “deleting official correspondance is illegal” do you not understand?
Setting up “unofficial” web-sites in order to hide official correspondance is also illegal.
You keep saying that “justices serve at the pleasure of the president.” Well, elected public officials serve at the pleasure of US, their effing BOSS, the American citizen.
Very true but the IT department has the control of this not the individual. You could write something to a disc and carry it out easier that you could send it out in any corp atmosphere I have been in.
The real question here is does Leahy have the right to look at Rove’s personal emails just to see if he might have broken a law or should he have to prove a law was broken and then go after the emails in question?
This is called a fishing expedition no denying it.
Cap does a political advisor have to save his personal emails? They are on a computer owned by the Republican party. There is a very defined line between government vs. political employees. The Hatch act oversees this. Rove as a non-government employees has the right to go through his emails and get rid of those that are just taking up space and are not vital to be retained. I do that all the time to free up space.
Don’t you?
Ksgrm,
Secure installs that I’ve done are on computers with no floppy drives, and no ability of the non-administrative users to be able to insert and install a “flash drive” or memory stick.
You’re basically trying divert from the point, as CapnAmerica keeps pointing out. It is highly possible that White House records were destroyed illegally. Call it a “fishing expedition” or “witch hunt” if you like, but if there are really fish and really witches, they need to be found.
Looking like Libby will soon have some company. The Admin. will be holding their reunion in prison, albeit a low level security campus.
“…this LATEST round of firings is that they simply seem to have been done after the prosecutors refused or failed to launch partisan “investigations” into Democratic “voter fraud” (but curiously not Republican efforts such as those to get around the Voting Rights Act).”
And you have direct knowledge or proof of that? Other than that it is a fishing expidition.
“”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”‘
“Are you for or against stem-cell research?”
A Republican (Conservative) FOR Stem Cell Research, For CCW, FOR Environmental Regulation, AGAINST ID/Creo in schools as Science”, For “Choice” to the begining of Third Trimester ( against last trimester aborts, FOR contraceptives to reduce the number of “unwanted pregnancies” to reduce the abortions in this country from the current 850,000 per year (which could be reduced with availible birth control and education), FOR Capitolism, Aainst government providedservices incompetition with private sector industry (Environmental business is rampant with the government being disperser of funds, consultant, contractor, and regulator, ie KDHE and KDOL, KSU SBAAP, against illegal immigration and those that hire illegal immigrants, against “amnesty” or “Citizenship forillegal aliens, and against providing social security under the Bush Totalization Plan which will give all illegals and their extended familes Social Security Benefits, when the Bene’s will not cover American Citizens now.
That prety well sums it up. All Conservative values, that the Kansas Republican Talibahn Party and the Kansas Democratic Party do not want to promote.
“”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"‘
“By the way, Tyler, why did we invade Iraq in the first place?”
Not the issue at hand and has nothing to do with this issue. That is the problem with idiots like you guys, … “Keeping your eye on the ball”.
“They are on a computer owned by the Republican party. There is a very defined line between government vs. political employees.”
Problem is ksgrm the White House deliberately ran their government emails through the RNC computers. That is a violation. This administration has obliterated the line between government and political functions.
This administration has obliterated the line between government and political functions.Posted by: Ben Huie | April 14, 2007 at 12:53 PM
But how can you maintain your “permanent Republican majority” _without_ obliterating that line? Isn’t the government one big Republican patronage game?
Ben it would be if this were a provable fact. So far I have heard lots of supposition but nothing based on fact. I believe Sampson did say this had happened but even he couldn’t produce anything that was incriminating to Rove. That is why Schummer and Leahy are becoming desperate in their search. I don’t want anyone to get away with law breaking but I also don’t want to see someone railroaded for practicing ‘politics as usual’.
“Problem is ksgrm the White House deliberately ran their government emails through the RNC computers.”
And you know that how? You need proof of that BEFORE you start the lynch mob.
“Your party went after Clinton because he lied about a knobber. Both democrats AND republicans are going after bush for the lies he’s told.”
ANd you see just how well that strategy worked for the Republicans.
So what do the Democratic Party and Party Leaders do? They emulate the Republicans that pborught forth the “Monica like investigations”, on issues to get a “witch hunt going” and then get someone on a “half-truth” on a crime that was not committed, and acts that are legal, AKA Scooter Libbey.
This type of crap gutter politics ruins our country.
Tyler you are so right and we can set here and say ‘he did it first’ until the cows come home and what happens is that the jobs we send ouR politicians to DC to do are not getting done.
If they can prove some wrong doing, and I seriously doubt they will, we will have wasted months focusing on something that did not break any laws and at the end of the day the firingS will be upheld because, I know you know what I am going to say, THEY SERVE AT THE PLEASURE OF THE PREZ.
“This type of crap gutter politics ruins our country.”
While my comments about the war may have been off topic, but STILL current (our troops are still dying), it is your party that is making it all possible, brought to you by one of the most corrupt abusers of the constitution we have ever had.
It is Bush that is ruining this countries politics, and Bush alone. It is the democrats that are trying to get it back on track.
Idiots? The ones I’m reading on this blog certainly don’t represent the democrats, but the republicans who are doing a fine job in their attempt to keep the water-wings blown up under bush, so he can float through the crap he’s left in his wake.
We, the American people, will be cleaning up his mess for God knows how long after Bush is gone.
J M history will prove you right or wrong. We will just have to wait and see. When you can’t make a competent argument call your opponents ‘idiots’ and that will win you that round. Not.
Both sides have things they are right and wrong on. I concede this. I would love to see our troops come home tomorrow but I also would like to know the ramifications in capitulating to the radical muslims who are waiting in the wings to see where our political leaders will take us.
While we argue policy they are making plans and it won’t be to pay us a courtesy visit.
Both sides have real issues that we need to address and I don’t know the answer but I do know it is a time that as a country we need to show a united front and work through the issues instead of this political witchhunting that is going on.
ON TOPIC, IDIOT Tyler:
Why are BOTH democrats and republicans going after the bush administration over the firings? Do you might think BOTH parties are sick and tired of the abuses by this president and his administration? His total disregard for ANY bipartisan efforts? His stonewalling of the truth?
Or is it just a “fishing” expedition by both parties for political reasons. Your party lost this past election big time, and now the republicans are trying to distance themselves from their own president. If that is the case, you have a real problem with the republican political backbone. And that’s the LAST thing this country needs. Drink a lot of milk, idiot, it helps strengthen bones.
ksgrm, Thank you for an excellent post. You are indeed correct: there are many things that need to be addressed, but this admin has done everything it can to stop that.
ksgrm, tyler – let Rove et.al. testify UNDER OATH that the dog ate their homework and this was all just a boo-boo.
Yeah, what’s the big deal about testifying under oath?
By the way, maybe one of the lawyers around here can take this on in more depth, but I’ve read that Bush may have inadvertantly lost his option to claim executive privelege IF anyone in his administration used the RNC email account to conduct official government business. The idea here is that Bush can’t claim the RNC emails are priveleged if official work was done through RNC servers or if White House email accounts should have been used instead.
Nevertheless, Fred Fielding is trying to leverage the RNC emails for Rove’s informal testimony, not taken under oath. According to Bush’s lawyer, if Congress want’s the RNC emails then Congress must agree to allow Rove to testify without being sworn in (although I’ve also read that Fielding wants to negotiate but Bush, in full “I’m the Decider, I’m Clueless, and I’m Proud” bloom, flatly ruled out any Congressional testimony by Rove under oath).
Why?
The whole thing is fishier than a Boston wet market.
Why is Fielding withholding the emails if Rove has to testify under oath? What has he got to hide? If it was a simple mistake that caused him to use RNC email accounts for his official duties, as his lawyer claims, then why is Fielding trying to prevent his testimony under oath?
There is no way you can claim this is a fishing expedition when, as Tom notes, so many fish are jumping out of the White House that Pennsylvania Ave is like cat central.
I don’t know about total loss of Executive Privilege, but as to the alleged emails, I cannot see where such would apply.
The idea of Executive Privilege lies within the idea of the President being able to receive open, honest, and contrary views from his advisors without the fear the same will be subject to disclosure. From the Nixon case and its progeny, it becomes clear that the concept of Executive Privilege weakens the further from the President the communication occurs. The use of nonofficial email accounts for official communications, if same occurred, among a variety of folks not including POTUS, makes the argument such a privilege should apply absurd, IMHO, irrespective of the lawfulness or lack thereof of such communication.
The RNC laptop software is a private enterprise where Politics are discussed. Congressman have no business looking into what is talked about on the private software unless it is a breech of National Security, which in this case it is not.
For Senator “Leak the Secret of Day” Leahy, I imagine the hidden messages is killing him. He was already fired once from a committee for leaking secrets. The guy just hates secrets. I think his objectivity is skewed and he needs to step aside from his position if not down.
I agree that the RNC laptop SHOULD be private – IF used properly. However, even the White House has admitted that they used RNC computers to circumvent normal proceedures with government communications. So, that protection is lost.
If government employees are using their White House positions for political work, then they are in violation of the law.
If government employees are conducting government business using a private e-mail account, then they in violation of the Hatch Act.
Either way, they are violating the law and should be fired for doing so.
I don’t think it matters Ben, if the computers were used for Private Political messages. If it indeed were a fact,then Senators like Schumer would have to open up his computers on how he pulls up dirt via Congressional testimony and reveal all of his agenda items on his political campaign offices.
I truly believe you don’t want to till up that nest of bumblebees.
Republican–
Thanks so much for revealing once again that you are full of sh*t.
You don’t know what is on the lap-tops, but you know that Congress shouldn’t investigate it.
It’s just like global warming . . . why listen to the scientists when we’ve got YOU to tell us the real story.
Or Valerie Plame . . . ignore the CIA and their lawyers. She was never undercover.
Or what Saddam Hussein was thinking and planning. Or Al Qaeda. Or Bashar Assad.
You’re the master of stating the unknown and the can’t-be-known as if it were fact.
Republican, what you said about the RNC “software” (I think you mean website) is true; however, when it seems from not only the Senate but from the Administration that prohibited “official business” emails were sent using these servers and networks, the door is opened. Why was official business discussed in emails utilizing a political party’s network? I don’t buy the current official explanation.
As posted many times before, the issue isn’t the right of a President to fire political appointees for any reason or no reason anymore; the issue has become whether there were improper motives involved in this decision, and the apparent inability of the DOJ to competently discuss this raises a perception that there’s a cover up going on, where one would not have been needed, IMHO.
Vaughn,
The official business aspect of your observation is done by almost every Congressman there is. How do you think they get their message back to their constituents via their political parties?
This is nothing new. Back in the day of telegraph, Congressman would wire back to their home districts and make sure that local newspapers got news of certain legislation that they might oppose .
This is all done via political agenda.
Like I said, I don’t think they should go there, unless they plan on stifling their own ability to communicate with their constituents or political party planning committees.
Deja vu all over again. I am old enough to remember Watergate and the fallout therefrom. As was noted at the time, it was a 2-bit burglary and didn’t amount to much. But then came the coverup. Plumbers. Stealing psychiatric records. The 18-minute gap. Drip drip drip …
Every day there was something new; Watergate became the “gift that kept on giving” for the Democrats. After winning in a LANDSLIDE in 1972 Nixon resigned in disgrace.
Today we are seeing what looks like a re-play of that. Continuously changing stories from the White House as yesterday’s versions become “no longer operative”; recollections “to the best of my recollection at this point in time”; mysteriously destroyed information.
The only things missing today are enough Repeblicans willing to stand up and say “enough” and a statesman like Gerald Ford to step in and become VP-President.
We all know how Watergate turned out. I wonder how the sequel will play out?
Ben,
I’m unsure I’m catching the analogy of an event that is characterized as: “Watergate scandal refers to a 1972 break-in at the Democratic National Committee.”
If anything, the reverse is true. I find Democratic Party members disguised as Senators who are trying to break into Republican Party Records using the Press as their burglar prying tool.
Perhaps the modus operandi is dissimilar, but the intent is the same.
WRONG! All the Senators is after is OFFICIAL government communications. These should never have been hidden in RNC computers in the first place. That was not done by the Democrats; it was done by Bush and his agents.
The point is Ben, is when official government communications starts and stops.
If I say for instance, “off the record” I really don’t like farm subsidies to my buddy in Iowa. Then later he fires back about how Senator So and So is passing legislation to boost farm subsidies for Ethanol production and doesn’t like my stance.
Why can’t I discuss with my friend about these subsidies and the pros and cons?
The same would apply perhaps in conviction rates of a certain crime in by US attorneys in my friends district,let’s say in San Diego. What business does the government have in my discussion of a matter to my friend?
In you are on the government’s dime, you do the governments business.
Bob, the ancillary statutes of teh Hatch Act only applies to government employees, not Political appointees.
Republican,
The Hatch Act does not apply to Congress. From the US Office of Special Counsel:
“The Hatch Act restricts the political activity of executive branch employees of the federal government, District of Columbia government and some state and local employees who work in connection with federally funded programs.”
http://www.osc.gov/ha_fed.htm
So your attempt to say Senators such as Schumer are in violation is incorrect.
Correct Tom, employees, not Political appointees.
Civil Service falls under the Executive Branch. They are employees of the Executive Branch and must fall the Hatch Act.
Appointees in the White House, who are not Civil Service Employees, aka Political Appointees do not fall under the Hatch Act.
Senator Schumer feeds his political action committee with goodies from his workings in the Congress. This is no difference that what happens in the WhiteHouse and has always happened.
Rove is not a political appointee. He’s staff.
The citizens of the USA pay Rove’s salary and he should conduct himself as such. He works for us. If he does not want to live by those rules, he should resign and take a job in a purely political position with the RNC. He offices in the White House, which is a public building, not a RNC facility.
Mr. Rove’s official title is “Deputy Chief of Staff”, IIRC. As such, he is an employee of the Executive Branch, and appointed by the President.
So are Goodling, Sampson, and Gonzalez staff.
Again, you can’t call it fishing when it’s raining fish.
Gonzalez is a political appointee and a cabinet officer. That’s why he had to be confirmed, and why he’s subject to demands by Congress to appear and testify.
Staff, on the other hand, is protected by executive privilege, and is never confirmed. They’re hired, not appointed.
“…it (Iraq War)is your party that is making it all possible, brought to you by one of the most corrupt abusers of the constitution we have ever had.”
I believe if you counted the votes on the Iraq Resolution, a LOT of Dems voted for it.
Then they changed their minds after the far left yahoos starting raising hell.
“”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"
“The RNC laptop software is a private enterprise where Politics are discussed. Congressman have no business looking into what is talked about on the private software unless it is a breech of National Security, which in this case it is not.”
For Senator “Leak the Secret of Day” Leahy, I imagine the hidden messages is killing him. He was already fired once from a committee for leaking secrets. The guy just hates secrets. I think his objectivity is skewed and he needs to step aside from his position if not down.
Posted by: Republican | April 14, 2007 at 02:50 PM
Posted by: Ben Huie | April 14, 2007 at 02:53 PM
“If government employees are using their White House positions for political work, then they are in violation of the law.
If government employees are conducting government business using a private e-mail account, then they in violation of the Hatch Act.”
Posted by: Bob | April 14, 2007 at 02:58 PM
“I don’t think it matters Ben, if the computers were used for Private Political messages. If it indeed were a fact,then Senators like Schumer would have to open up his computers on how he pulls up dirt via Congressional testimony and reveal all of his agenda items on his political campaign offices.”
“”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”
ALL of those posts were about ex parte communications, ONLY the President has that “Executive Privilige”. The Congressmen DO NOT, and Schummer and Leahy (Go F Yourself) need to open up their computers and emails and let us see what they have done. It appears as if they have used their Committee appointments for political ends and a witch hunt for the BUsh admin.
When are you guys gonna get a vision or position other “we hat Bush”?
Hating Bush is not gonna win the next election, HE IS NOT RUNNING YOU IDIOTS!!!!!!
Hotmail MSN screens for viruses prior to downloading any file. Not only that but such filters can be set to disallow files but allow text. When they blocked access at my company, several employees were rather upset about it because the previous policy was that you could use the services on your own time and many people did and that was the reason given to us. It was stated that an employee sent an email to a client that ended up being investigated because of it’s sexual nature and then they shut off access and said all sent email must go through the corporate email system and anybody not following the policy would be fired. We can receive email from any service including Hotmail but you have to reply to it using company email. I cannot go on to hotmail and check my mail anymore.
If Federal employees are are doing political work on public time, they are stealing from the US Taxpayers.
It is the same thing as if you were to start your own business on your bosses time.
We pay them – they should be working for us, not the RNC.
As for hating Bush? It comes naturally for about 70% of the population.
Employees described below may engage in political activities on duty if the costs associated with that political activity are not paid for by money from the U.S. Treasury. This provision applies to employees
* the duties and responsibilities of whose positions continue outside normal duty hours and while away from the normal duty post; and
* who are paid from an appropriation for the Executive Office of the President; or who are appointed by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, whose positions are located within the United States, who determine policies to be pursued by the United States in relations with foreign powers or in the nationwide administration of federal laws. (Regulations at 5 CFR 734.502)
Me: “…this LATEST round of firings is that they simply seem to have been done after the prosecutors refused or failed to launch partisan “investigations” into Democratic “voter fraud” (but curiously not Republican efforts such as those to get around the Voting Rights Act).”
Tyler the ranter: “And you have direct knowledge or proof of that? Other than that it is a fishing expidition.”
When the odious Kenneth Blackwell attempted to throw out voter registrations in Ohio because they were on the wrong “card” (never mind the fact that the people who registered were sent that card, and that they had obviously made it through the US mail system and didn’t gum up the words-which was the reasons why the cards were wrong in the first place) it was clearly an attempt to deny voters likely to vote for Kerry access to the polls. Then there was the whole falsely identified felons mess in Florida. As for your demands for “proof”, that simply is an indication you really don’t know what you are talking about on this issue. As for the identified reasons for firing the attorneys, look here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=8904377
Note the language I used in the post you replied to. Your request for the direct knowledge or proof is not reasonable for the purposes of this discussion. We both have access to the same sources of information about this issue. My conclusions are based on that public information and are reasonable.
Re: your whinings about Bush haters. Do you really think that people might not have an actual problem with the way the Bush Administration conducts its business, and that they simply and reflexively hate Bush? You’re simply poisoning the well, and it is a recognized form of bad argument. You make yourself look foolish by resorting to it.
Ksagnistik, I believe you were one who is against Voter ID in Kansas as well. Here you are arguing for just that! What an idiot! LOL!
Nice try to quote NPR, as IF they have any “journalistic integrity”!!! ANother laugher, the NPR ought to be pulled off the air and de funede, with it’s lefties only prorgaming at tazpayers expense.
What a BOS!
“Note the language I used in the post you replied to. Your request for the direct knowledge or proof is not reasonable for the purposes of this discussion.”
DIRECT PROOF IS NOT NEEDED!!!!!!
Nothing like iron clad inuendo!
Do you actually read what you post “oh foamer at the mouth”?
Do you actually read what you post “oh foamer at the mouth”?Posted by: Tyler Durden | April 14, 2007 at 05:57 PM
Do you proofread yours?
“I believe if you counted the votes on the Iraq Resolution, a LOT of Dems voted for it.
Then they changed their minds after the far left yahoos starting raising hell.”
Again, Tyler shows his ignorance. The democrats started questioning the war AFTER they found out bush lied to them about WMD and yellow cake. So the idiot title is still worn proudly by yourself.
But back on topic, as tyler likes to say:Using 3rd party email services to bypass federal laws concerning executive communications is a violation of federal law. Why the hell do you think you neo-cons lost the last election in the first place? Because the American people are sick and tired of being lied to by YOUR party, the same one that lost.
If they are discussing and transmitting sensitive political issues and government business, I believe they are breaking the law, because the transmissions would not truly be secure. Just how much govt. business has been done via the RNC website? More to look into. You can bet the strategy of firing key Attorney Generals and replacing them with Republican shills was communicated to the RNC by Rove.
WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOU SAY THE LAW IS. WE MAKE THE LAWS! THAT’S WHY WE FIRE ANY ATTORNEY WHO DOESN’T TOE THE PARTY LINE!
Just like Clinton did when he fired all US Attorneys.
I’d bet a dollar to a doughnut that Rove’s/Cheney’s and maybe even Bush’s strategizing were done over the RNC server also.
Tyler.
Your reply was totally empty of anything worth replying to.
I omitted to add their strategizing to out Plame as retaliation over Wilson’s actions.
AND NEXT WE WILL FIRE FITZGERALD. THAT’LL TEACH HIM TO CROSS US!
Joe, every president replaces the USA’s when they take office. Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton and Bush 43 all did the same thing. No story there.
Vaughn is an attorney. I’m not. But what he says comports with wiki’s description of the Executive Office of the President, established by the Congress, and lists the Chief of Staff (J Bolton) and Deputy Chief of Staff (K Rove).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assistant_to_the_President
Also see the U.S. Code authorizing assistance and services to the president 3 USC 105:
http://frwebgate1.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=596528352192+4+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve
Most White House staff, ranging from clerical workers and their lower-to-mid-level supervisors to Secret Service officers, are non-appointed career civil-service personnel. The Chief of Staff has supervisorial duties over the full range of White House workers. The Deputy Chief of Staff, in principle, is under the authority of the Chief of Staff.
Moreover, Brooklyn Law School professor and FindLaw columnist Anthony J. Sebok opined that Valerie Plame would have a tough case suing Karl Rove as a personal defendant, because he is immune from civil action, as a federal employee.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/29/sebok.rove2/index.html
Rove has an office in the White House, a federal facility. He uses federal–i.e. taxpayer funded–resources.
If he were smarter than he was, he would have used a laptop and a cell modem with encryption, to communicate things he didn’t want to be recorded on White House servers.
They had Fitzgerald rated as “Not Distinguished” for one of his ratings, bet he wasn’t on their to 10 list, unless it was their wish list to replace with a patsy.
We don’t call them patsies. We call them “cooperative”! That is why we like graduates of Pat Robertson’s madrasa.
“The democrats started questioning the war AFTER they found out bush lied to them about WMD and yellow cake.”
AGASIN EVERYBODY GOT THE SAME NIE!!!
DO we really want leaders that “voted for it before they voted against it”?
Do we really want leader that vote with polls and do not educate themselves on the NIE and then when their constituency gives them hell, they just trot out the “Bush Lied” mantra?
Yeah, real leadership there.
Yor Liberals idiots are pathetic.
Steve:
“I omitted to add their strategizing to out Plame as retaliation over Wilson’s actions.”
Fitzgearld stated that Plame was NOT an operative, and so did the CIA, and ther was nothing to “out”, and there were no charges brought forward.
Joe Wilson and Valire Plame are the friggin’ liars here.
Oh, yeah and the DNC operatives that are cooking up this liar agenda.
I wish they would get a political issue rather than
“I HATE BUSH”
or”BUSH LIED”
or, hmmm, oh yeah:
“Bush Lied”.
What a pathetic political party the Democraps and surrendercrats are.
I am so glad. Bastion of leadership there.
And:”I HATE BUSH”
agend, that is a golden oldie.
YEAH< WE GET IT!
Put up a candidate and do some future issues that will help the US, and quit obsessing on the Bush 43 Presidency, it will be over in less than a year and a half.
Catch a political clue!!!!!!
You too media, the story is old and untrue.
More of your leftie DNC ilk, yes a green party,
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55206
Only the President and his staff get an NIE – Congress does not – ever.
The CIA said that Valerie Wilson was convert therefore she was covert.
Facts.
“More of your leftie DNC ilk, yes a green party,”
And you don’t have your own kook groups practicing the neo-con code of shoot first, ask questions later? You want to start cherry picking these same little kook groups on both sides? Hell, if you want to go that far, hitler was an ultra conservative. You want to vouch for him?
You have no idea what you are writing about, you don’t have the brainpower to see past the bush/rush/coulter school of brainwashing. You are living proof intelligent design has no place in modern teaching. Idiot? look in the mirror, then look up idiot in the dictionary. What you will see is your own face reflected in both.
“Put up a candidate and do some future issues that will help the US, and quit obsessing on the Bush 43 Presidency, it will be over in less than a year and a half.”
Thank God! And we are putting up candidates. I can see it now: Hillary Clinton, 44th president of the United States. You idiot neo-cons will be running for cover, and I’ll be laughing my ass off.
But I also expect she’ll pardon Bush after he is indicted and convicted of making a mockery of the Constitution. hahahahahahaha
And then we have this stellar example of Christian love:
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html
“The Lord God Almighty killed [the people who died on 9/11], looked at them in the face, laughed and mocked at each one of them as he cast each one of them into hell”.
What a wonderful CHRISTIAN!
Strange that trolls only came back with the Fisters. The very thing they complained about.
Yeah Dyler,we all know. Phelps is an a$$hole who claims to be a Christian. So why’d you post his propoganda?