Chemcial testing, according to Kansas law, must be done within two hours of the arrest or accident. If it’s not, the legal battle to get it admitted can be incredible.

HIPPA does not impact the drawing of blood in these cases, no matter what the hospital’s attorneys might say. Each hospital in Wichita has been notified, according to law, that law enforcement officers will be asking for blood draws to be done. They’ve been provided the laws that apply to these situations.

Those of you wanting to practice law here, get a clue.

KS Meadowlark, Tom, Republican, can you explain to all of us what the 10 exceptions to the search warrant requirement are? Do you know what the Good Faith Exception to the Exclusionary Rule is? How does the fourth amendment impact a blood draw? Does a person, one not involved in an accidnet, have to be in custody to have the police “search” them for their blood?

That’s what you are arguing about here. That, and the fact that some idiot for a DA is being a bully again. Before Mr. Kline brings a complaint against anyone for obstruction he should read the statute and how the Appeals and Supreme court have ruled on the law. He’ll realize that he can’t bring such a complaint.

Posted by: political_mom | April 30, 2007 at 12:37 PM

PM – I think he did. “law enforcement officers can instruct a nurse to draw blood on someone who is not in custody.” I think he meant to have “not” after “can”.

Of course a nurse or doctor CANNOT do a blood test at the behest of a cop when the person is not in custody. And even if they do a blood test on a patient and know the results, again, as LJ pointed out, there is a federal privacy act (HIPAA) that disallows giving that PHI.

If we increase sentences, that is costly.So, instead, we allow early parole and then put parole violators back in prison.Tom W., the guy in question, is a scammer. He is an alcoholic and a habitual shop-lifter.He killed a kid, he was too drunk to even know he had hit her and drug her under his car for more than a block.Well, if we want to put drunks in for life, but can’t afford to, I am all for stiff enforcement for parole violators.Tom W. was GUILTY, that he scammed the jury on this one changes nothing.I suppose that you cry for OJ as well?

I’m trying to remember the standard protocol for lab orders for a trauma patient, if they included drug screen or not. I think they did. But that doesn’t mean the officer is privy to the results.

What is your solution then? I don’t want these drunks on the road. I also don’t agree with the lock em up and toss the key mentality in most cases. But we’re sick of the repeat offenders who seriously hurt people.

“Phill Kline is an idiot and the best thing that ever happened to law enforcement in this state was his quick departure in January from office. I feel sorry for the hundreds of dedicated law enforcement officers in Johnson County who have to contend with this politician. He is not a professional prosecutor…not even close.”

I agree completely. The LAST thing we need is a wedge between the working relationships between EMS, Hospital and Police. But laws are in place for a reason.

I can promise you there are nurses out there who are SCARED for their licenses to give police any information about the patients. Their attitude is that you’ll get that information when you provide the orders. And that is what they’ve been instructed by their dept lawyers.

So if you think I’m full of it, and don’t know what I’m talking about…come to our training meetings.

I once answered the phone and dispatch said ‘if you have so and so present to your department, call us, he’s a suspect’. I wrote the note and the nurse grabbed it and threw it in the trash. She said “we can’t and won’t do that”.

Thanks for giving my arguments their due.

But what are Meadowlark’s and Republican’s points? Meadowlark has taken DA Kline’s position that Kline has the authority to charge obstruction in cases where AG Kline said there’d be no case. Republican says go ahead and jail’em, and let the courts set them free later.

I believe it’s an abuse of prosecutorial powers to arrest people and charge them with crimes you *know* will never get convictions. Just think of Nifong and the Lacrosse team.

I believe that Meadowlark is seizing on this manufactured controversy to attack media outlets he disagrees with.

I believe Republican knows better. He knows what a heinous violation of civil rights Kline would be committing by proceeding with charges he knows would never hold up.

They have no point.

Even so, your point is taken.

So are Republican’s points and Meadowlarks points.

I think a court will soon settle some of this for us, again.

Remember the story on the “hot dog theif?”

As I stated on a previous thread, the guy who spend all that time in jail, for putting hot dogs in his pocket and then feeding them to his dog— well he has been shoplifting with a similar MO for better than 25 years.

Once, Safeway let him go, because he “had the money” for his cigars, so “why would he steal them?” — I think it was about 5 days later, I can’t remember, but that drunk driver then ran over a little girl and drug her under his car for more than a block.

He got out, got arrested again, and the Eagle wrote a tear-jerker on him just last month, since he was a habitual offender and had spent a “long time” in jail for hot dog theft.

We can only guess that, maybe, some angel in Heaven put those hot dogs in Tom W’s pocket.

Maybe it was the only way to keep him from hurting someone again!

There is *no law* that gives any DA the legal right to charge innocent bystanders, in this case medical personnel, with obstruction of justice for refusing to do warrantless blood draws. In fact, as Attorney General, Kline wrote and advisory opinion that specifically said the Kansas obstruction statute would not apply in this type of case. I laid it all out earlier; I cited statute, and I cited the advisory opinion.

Kline is arguing out both sides of his mouth. Not two years ago he said one thing as AG; now, as DA, he says another in his ongoing attempts to bully anyone he believes stands in his way.

If you think Kline does not have the authority to order a blood alcohol screen, why dont you have AG Morrison prosecute Kline?

Tom, we all disagree on many issues.

That doesnt mean you have to disagree with EVERYTHING someone does. In fact, you probably agree with the vast majority of things Kline does. Kline and Morrison agree on the vast majority of legal issues.

Being reflexively against everything anyone does is foolish.

So you’re all for Phill Kline being able to intimidate, bully, and threaten people into doing his bidding? You’re okay with him arresting and jailing people on charges he’s already said would not apply?

Any medical care provider not doing lab tests when a person comes into a hospital because of a car wreck and checking for drugs (of any kind)is not doing their job.

The person might be a diabetic or have some other impairment. Ruling out drugs prior to non-life saving medication treatment would a be a prudent thing to do. And I would think an automatic protocol.

One other thing, law enforcement officers can instruct a nurse to draw blood on someone who is not in custody. The law provides for that. Your references to searching with and without a warrant, and an abbreviated rendition of the chemical testing law is a pathetic display of a political argument. Knowing what the law says is one thing, understanding the all of the courts holdings on each law is another. Clearly that hasn’t been represented here. I’d say again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

A blood test requires a needle being shoved into someone’s arm. It’s an invasive medical procedure. The appeals courts don’t like the government to perform systematic searches in such a manner. You don’t either. Someday it could be you. Remember, you only want the government to do to others what you will allow them to do to you.

I’d encourage you, too, to quit debating the law about DUI here because a number of you have no clue what you are writing about. It’s the lock’em-up-and-throw-away-the-key mentality that is truly undermining our ability to get them off the road and keep them off the road.

Until you have worked through the early morning hours to build a case demonstrating someone was drunk, and you’ve had to go to court in the middle of the day (which is really the middle of the night for most of these officers) your opinion doesn’t matter.

Phill Kline is an idiot and the best thing that ever happened to law enforcement in this state was his quick departure in January from office. I feel sorry for the hundreds of dedicated law enforcement officers in Johnson County who have to contend with this politician. He is not a professional prosecutor…not even close.

I fully agree. Maybe not death row but we need to drop this non sense about “vehicular manslaughter” and charge these people with murder and give them very long prison terms. The should serve at least 30 years before parole is even considered.

If the police tell you to draw blood for evidence collection, you should do so stat. And if you or your bosses refuse to do so, you should be charged with obstruction of justice. Suppose it was your family the drunk just killed that you are being ordered to collect a blood sample from. Do you want to see him walk free for his murders??

For instance, if a police officer comes into my unit and asks me if I smell alcohol, I cannot tell him. I also cannot go to him and tell him I smell alcohol on his breath as I’m treating the patient.

I have never been told that I can draw blood by the police asking me to do so. And I am qualified to do so.

It seems to me that Kline thinks he’s some sort of all empowering God that gives him the right to poke around in everyone’s business. There is procedure for these things. If he can’t follow them the rules, has a hard-on for the medical community and driving a wedge between law and medical cooperation, then he needs to get out of law.