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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted April 9, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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254 Comments
Good Riddance!
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4697871.html
Wichita State coach Mark Turgeon is heading to College Station to take over the Texas A&M basketball program.TOM GANNAM: AP
WSU should hire former player, John Cooper as coach.
http://auburntigers.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/cooper_john00.html
No more mah-mah-mah-mudslides for him. He probably got tired of the “mud-slinging” here.
I imagine the folks down in College Station are saying “I didn’t know we had a Coach from Wichita Falls.”
Good morning, Right Wingers. How are things in your World of Lies / Universe of Plausible Deniability? Well, CF2K hopes.
The next time Republican smugly dismisses concerns about the Administration’s misuse of domestic surveillance by claiming that “if you aren’t doing something wrong, you won’t have anything to worry about,” someone needs to rub his nose in the following.
***********************************
I am posting the below with the permission of Professor Walter F. Murphy, emeritus of Princeton University. For those who do not know, Professor Murphy is easily the most distinguished scholar of public law in political science. His works on both constitutional theory and judicial behavior are classics in the field. Bluntly, legal scholarship that does not engage many themes in his book, briefly noted below, Constitutional Democracy, may be legal, but cannot be said to be scholarship. As interesting, for present purposes, readers of the book will discover that Murphy is hardly a conventional political or legal liberal. While he holds some opinions, most notably on welfare, similar to opinions held on the political left, he is a sharp critic of ROE V. WADE, and supported the Alito nomination. Apparently these credentials and others noted below are no longer sufficient to prevent one from becoming an enemy of the people.
“On 1 March 07, I was scheduled to fly on American Airlines to Newark, NJ, to attend an academic conference at Princeton University, designed to focus on my latest scholarly book, Constitutional Democracy, published by Johns Hopkins University Press this past Thanksgiving.”
“When I tried to use the curb-side check in at the Sunport, I was denied a boarding pass because I was on the Terrorist Watch list. I was instructed to go inside and talk to a clerk. At this point, I should note that I am not only the McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence (emeritus) but also a retired Marine colonel. I fought in the Korean War as a young lieutenant, was wounded, and decorated for heroism. I remained a professional soldier for more than five years and then accepted a commission as a reserve office, serving for an additional 19 years.”
“I presented my credentials from the Marine Corps to a very polite clerk for American Airlines. One of the two people to whom I talked asked a question and offered a frightening comment: “Have you been in any peace marches? We ban a lot of people from flying because of that.” I explained that I had not so marched but had, in September, 2006, given a lecture at Princeton, televised and put on the Web, highly critical of George Bush for his many violations of the Constitution. “That’ll do it,” the man said. ”
“After carefully examining my credentials, the clerk asked if he could take them to TSA officials. I agreed. He returned about ten minutes later and said I could have a boarding pass, but added: “I must warn you, they=re going to ransack your luggage.” On my return flight, I had no problem with obtaining a boarding pass, but my luggage was “lost.” Airlines do lose a lot of luggage and this “loss” could have been a mere coincidence. In light of previous events, however, I’m a tad skeptical.”
“I confess to having been furious that any American citizen would be singled out for governmental harassment because he or she criticized any elected official, Democrat or Republican. That harassment is, in and of itself, a flagrant violation not only of the First Amendment but also of our entire scheme of constitutional government. This effort to punish a critic states my lecture’s argument far more eloquently and forcefully than I ever could. Further, that an administration headed by two men who had “had other priorities” than to risk their own lives when their turn to fight for their country came up, should brand as a threat to the United States a person who did not run away but stood up and fought for his country and was wounded in battle, goes beyond the outrageous. Although less lethal, it is of the same evil ilk as punishing Ambassador Joseph Wilson for criticizing Bush’s false claims by “outing” his wife, Valerie Plaime, thereby putting at risk her life as well as the lives of many people with whom she had had contact as an agent of the CIA. …”
“I have a personal stake here, but so do all Americans who take their political system seriously. Thus I hope you and your colleagues will take some positive action to bring the Administration’s conduct to the attention of a far larger, and more influential, audience than I could hope to reach. ”
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2007/04/another-enemy-of-people.html
Ahhhh…the word of a clerk at an airline is absolute positive proof that there is a vast conspiracy to silence all opposition and ‘lose’ their bags.
If speaking out against the current administration is grounds for such harrassment, then I would expect every negative poster on this blog has been “targeted” and will be denied boarding on flights. Please keep us posted on your proof of harrassments.
raptor,
When my speeches criticizing the Bush Administration are broadcast on C-Span, as are Professor Murphy’s, I would fully expect them to use whatever tools of retaliation are at their disposal.
We’re ruled by small, petty men. Are you telling me that you think Karl Rove and his apparatchiks are above such actions, raptor?
I did not say they are or are not capable of such antics. I am saying the ‘proof’ here is rather slim. I would like some substantive evidence other than a nameless airline clerk who could have his/her own agenda. Let’s see some factual evidence of this type of harrassment.
I am not saying it did not or could not happen, I am just asking for impartial evidence. And, please note for civility sake, I am not name calling, accusing anyone of lying, or attacking anyone’s veracity. Just asking for substantive verification. After all, I could claim that I was harassed by the police in an unnamed town because I spoke against some mayor somewhere. Is that proof of anything? Nope, it isn’t.
Raptor,
The way the USA PATRIOT Act is written, and the way the TSA regs are interpreted and applied, has made it nearly impossible to get any information about who is on the “No-Fly List,” or why they’re on there in the first place. There’s no recourse, no way to challenge airport security detentions. All the information is secret. When there’s that much secrecy built into a system, it’s ripe for abuse. And no way to “prove” anything.
Much has been written about the ‘need’ for more jail space and the controversy of charging cities for housing prisoners. When I read things like this, however …
http://www.kansas.com/196/story/39344.html
http://www.kansas.com/196/story/39344.html
RAptor, CF:
If the suspicions are true, it’s reason to thoroughly clean house.
However, like Raptor, I’m skeptical. I suspect there’s actually less to this story. As a friend once put it, never ascribe to duplicity what can be explained by incompetence.
I’d like to know more. And it seems the good professor may well have the where-with-all to find out more. I hope he’s interested in getting to the bottom of the incident, not simply in ascribing duplicity based upon the word of an airline clerk (who has exactly zero insight on how the watch list is assembled).
A luggage losing conspiracy??? C’mon.
What will happen if the good professor finds a hair in his sandwich, or has a flat tire, or if his next flight is delayed. Obviously, “they” are out to get him.
All the information is secret. When there’s that much secrecy built into a system, it’s ripe for abuse. And no way to “prove” anything.
Posted by: Tom | April 09, 2007 at 08:49 AM
Hmmm and if the informaiton wasn’t secret, there would be those screaming about the right to privacy. Don’t think so? Just remember all those scream about the right to privacy for those infected with HIV, regardless of their profession.
I do think if they are going to use this “no-fly list” they better damn sure they get it right. And if I were the professor, I would file a lawsuit immediately, i am sure the ACLU would like to be part of that action. In reality, I think the clerk was trying to be self important or tryiing to save face (could be either) and was blowing smoke up where it doesn’t shine. Stil, I would file suit and get to the bottom of it
When it’s the Bush administration, the CONservatives hold critics to impossibly high standards of proof.
When Bush himself says something patently false–like “those people who say we didn’t find Weapons of Mass Destruction are wrong. We found them. We found them”–he just made a “mistake” and “everybody can make a mistake.”
Here are a few more cases of “mistakes”:
Some false positives and abuses that have been in the news include, In alphabetical order:
Numerous children (including many under the age of five, and some under the age of one) have generated false positives.Daniel Brown, a United States Marine returning from Iraq, was prevented from boarding a flight home in April 2006 because his name matched one on the No Fly List. The rest of his company refused to leave the airport until Brown was allowed to board.
Asif Iqbal, a management consultant and legal resident of the United States born in Pakistan, plans to sue the US government because he is regularly detained when he tries to fly, because he has the same name as a former Guantanamo detainee.
Iqbal’s work requires a lot of travel, and, even though the Guantanamo detainee has been released, his name remains on the no-fly list, and Iqbal the software consultant experiences frequent, highly unpleasant, unpredictable delays and missed flights.
He is pushing for a photo ID and birthdate matching system, in addition to the current system of checking names.
Dr. Robert J. Johnson, a surgeon and a former lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army, was told in 2006 he was on the list, although he had had no problem in flying the month before. Johnson was running as a Democrat against U.S. Representative John McHugh, a Republican. Johnson wondered whether he was on the list because of his opposition to the Iraq War. He stated, “This could just be a government screw-up, but I don’t know, and they won’t tell me.”
Later, a 60 Minutes report brought together 12 men named Robert Johnson, all of whom had experienced problems in airports with being pulled aside and interrogated. The report suggested that the individual whose name was intended to be on the list was most likely the Robert Johnson who had been convicted of plotting to bomb a movie theater and a Hindu temple in Toronto.In August 2004, Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) told a Senate Judiciary Committee discussing the No Fly List that he had appeared on the list and had been repeatedly delayed at airports. He said it had taken him three weeks of appeals directly to Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge to have him removed from the list. Kennedy said he was eventually told that the name “T Kennedy” was added to the list because it was once used as an alias of a suspected terrorist. There are an estimated 7,000 American men whose legal names correspond to “T Kennedy.” (Senator Kennedy, whose first name is Edward and for whom ‘Ted’ is only a nickname, would not be one of them.) Recognising that as a U.S. Senator he was in a privileged position in being able to contact Ridge, Kennedy said of “ordinary citizens”: “How are they going to be able to get to be treated fairly and not have their rights abused?”
U.S. Representative John Lewis (D-GA), widely known for his civil rights advocacy, has been stopped many times.
James Moore, an Emmy-winning television news correspondent, co-author of Bush’s Brain: How Karl Rove Made George W. Bush Presidential, political activist, and outspoken critic of the Bush Administration, was placed on the No Fly List.
David Nelson, the actor best known for his role on The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet, is among various persons named David Nelson who have been stopped at airports because their name apparently appears on the list.
Jesselyn Radack, a former United States Department of Justice ethics advisor who argued that John Walker Lindh was entitled to an attorney, was placed on the No Fly List as part of what many believe to be a reprisal for her whistleblowing.
In September 2004, former pop singer Cat Stevens (who converted to Islam and changed his name to “Yusuf Islam” in 1978) was denied entry into the U.S. after his name was found on the list.
In February 2006, U.S. Senator Ted Stevens stated in a committee hearing that his wife Catherine had been subjected to questioning at an airport as to whether she was Cat Stevens due to the similarity of their names.
James W. Walter and William Rodriguez claim to be on the list. The two are campaigners for a new independent investigation into the events of September 11, 2001, saying the original commission was a cover up.
U.S. Representative Don Young (R-AK), the 3rd most senior Republican in the House, was flagged in 2004 after he was mistaken for a “Donald Lee Young”.
from Wikipedia
Clearly, some of these abuses are just mistakes. Just as clearly, some are political payback.
So what we can conclude is that the Bush administration is doing what it always does: incompetently managing political pay-back, and doing it so badly that it looks like just a “mistake.”
See also
Valerie PlameHurricane Katrina responseIraq WarFederal prosecutors’ firingsBunnetine Greenhouse
How many flyers were there last year? How big a percentage was the false positives? I agree that the government should do everything possible to eliminate false positives, and/or political retribution. Maybe that means eliminating the “no fly list”. If so, then let’s not hear any “they should have never been on the plane in the first place” comments.I also agree that if someone is on the list wrongly, he should be able to sue the government for damages, and penalties. IF they can show that they have been placed on the list solely because they are critical of this adminstration, or others, then those who placed him on the list (if it can be found out–good luck there, i suppose) then they should be out of government work permanently. But let us first decide if there really is a problem
If Bush did it, LJ, then it’s a problem . . .
Raptor and others,
Walter Murphy was not just an emeritus professor. He was a decorated Korean War veteran, and a retired USMC Colonel.
It wasn’t just “a clerk” here playing games. Murphy was denied curbside check-in. He then found out at the ticket counter that there was “a problem” and was directed to the airport’s TSA office. If by “clerk”, someone means a computer data-entry person at NSA or the Department of Homeland Security, where did the “clerk” get Colonel Murphy’s name?
If Bush did it–Did what? Pesonally place these people on the no fly list? BS.You know better. THis typification of the current President, either with this president or his predecessor, as the summation of all that is evil in the world iscrap. Fun to blog I guess, the worse for the country.
Total passenger flights of the top 2 airpots in the USAtlanta, Hartsfield (ATL) with a total of 85, 907, 423 passengersChicago, O’Hare (ORD) with a total of 75,510,003 passengers equals over 160 million. Error rate of 1 tenth of one percent = 160,000.
How many false positives were there?
Some good comments above. Didn’t think this would hit such a nerve.
We know more about this Administration than we did when TSA instituted the No-Fly list. As has been shown with the unfolding US Attorneys scandal, we know that they are willing to use nonpartisan Departments of the Federal Government, notably the Department of Justice, to go after their political enemies. This is a very big deal. An impeachable deal, in fact.
In effect, the Bush Adminsitration operates with an enemies list, and they have a demonstrated willingness to the Federal apparatus at their disposal to harass and prosecute their political opposition.
That’s scary as hell, and it appears to be going on at all levels of government. The pattern is clear and it’s pervasive. The tidbit I posted above is indicative of what’s been going on at a much wider level.
And what this is, is what CF2K, in his new, improved, non-potty mouth way, calls the “rodent-buggering” of the Federal bureaucracy for Republican political purposes.
The firings of the us attorneys may have been political. Nothing unusual about that. They serve at the mercy of the president. Period.That is what GonzaleZ should have said to start with. BFD. We did it, we have the right to do it, as as every President before us. That is what they should have said. In fact, it is NOT an impeachable offense. It is not even a crime.
If a US Attorney was fired because they were pursuing a case Gonzales/Bush didn’t want them digging into, could that be charged as obstruction of justice? I’m just curious…
Hmmm. maybe, I don’t know. I would think only if it was a case in which they were personally involved, but I could be wrong
I mean, district attorneys and attorney generals decide all the time what cases their underlings take to trial. If they don’t follow their bosses recomendations, they may be open to termination. No different I would think. I agree though that Gonzalez should be gone. If only for being stupid.
I’m positive that the baggage handlers of every major airline recieve daily memos from the White liason in charge of liberal nit wit harrassment.
White=White House
Littlejohn,
I’m sure you’ll agree there’s a huge difference between prioritizing cases, and obstructing investigations and prosecutions that could be embarrassing or worse.
Let’s just imagine that the US Attorney in, say, Arkansas was getting ready to file an indictment against a business associate of Mike Huckabee. Let’s imagine that Bush wants Huckabee’s candidacy to move forward. So Gonzales fires the rogue USA and replaces him with someone a bit more compliant…
Just imagining, of course. But not that far-fetched.
Hank,
When someone is pulled for a full TSA screening, their baggage is also pulled by TSA investigators who then open it and go through every scrap of clothing, paper, and toiletry product you’ve packed. Then said investigators cram it all back in all nice and wrinkled, and leave a little sticker on the luggage that says they’ve searched it.
I will agree in principal that there is a huge difference. I will also agree that in practice it happens all the time, at all levels. However, in the case shown above, if it could be proven, then Gonzales should be indicted, and if found guilty at trial, incarcerated. However, in the current cases, I have seen no evidence to back that up.
Oh, and Hank, they also leave a little note inside the bag saying it’s beens searched.
Tom,
what constitutes a TSA search for the above baggage handling? My wife was pulled out of line and searched, including under the clothing. The reason? Stupid nitwit at the ticket counter put not only my wifes boarding pass into her packet, but somebody elses too? She was immediately flagged as suspect, hauled off and THOROUGHLY searched. She found no such tag, so I was just wondering. Of course, the whole thing was a fiasco, so who knows?
It’s not a sticker, it’s a piece of paper.
My baggages have been searched like that. In all honesty, I don’t think they did anything. Everything looks as though I packed it.
So what I’m thinking, is that a TSA guy just opens my bag and throws the paper in and that’s it
I mean! TSA (Thousand people Standing Around) aren’t really security professionals in my book. It’s your average jobs program to ghetto, single mothers and poor people with no educational background the chance to land a $40K government job, and on top of that, they are now Unionized.
One morning a ticket agent faced an extremely rude and irate customer. He began cussing her even before he got to the counter – calling her every name in the book. She remained calm as he questioned her heritage, chastity, and everything else imaginable.
After the guy had left a co-worker asked how she could remain so calm. “Easy,” she replied, “I simply booked him on his flight to Atlanta. And his luggage to Chicago.”
Good story!! and would serve him right, too!
My husband and I carried a swiss army knife onboard 4 different flights without even realizing it, this was not long after 9/11 and we were flying to and from DC. We didn’t discover the knife until he unpacked his briefcase after we got home…it even passed through all the X-ray machines. I think the screeners are more for passenger’s peace of mind, because it seems anyone can smuggle anything.Coming back into this country is also a joke, in Mexico they barely pay any attention to what you’re carrying aboard the plane, then you fly right into Dallas or Houston.
What’s the world coming to, bothering an old Professor.
Next thing you know, they’ll be accusing a former National Security adviser for stuffing classified documents down his pants!
:)
From the Capn, after reciting a list of mislabelings on the “no-fly list:”
“Just as clearly, some are political payback.”
While it MAY be, there is exactly ZERO EVIDENCE of same. Beware of jumping to conclusions.
Exactly, GMC; from what I’ve read, it seems (at this point) incompetence, rather than a deliberate action, is the root cause. Now, if there is evidence adduced, an entirely different thing, no?
CF2K, as usual, disagrees.
He objects to littlejohn’s canard that since U.S. Attorneys “serve at the pleasure of the President,” that their hirings and firings are a predictable political manner. This is Right Wing boilerplate.
But then littlejohn goes further: he says “I mean, district attorneys and attorney generals decide all the time what cases their underlings take to trial. If they don’t follow their bosses recomendations, they may be open to termination.” This is quite an extraordinary statement, since it asserts that politicization of Federal prosecutions as a matter of course. That is, it reduces career prosecutors to the level of party hacks. In effect, the impartiality of justice would be merely a quaint fiction.
Then, upon being pressed by Tom, littlejohn backpedals somewhat, saying that the fact that prosecutions are de facto political should not mean that they are de jure political. “I will agree in principal that there is a huge difference. I will also agree that in practice it happens all the time, at all levels.”
But the fact that littlejohn only concedes, when pressed, that this politicization is an undesirable thing that should result in Gonzales’ prosecution speaks volumes. It speaks even more loudly that he thinks there’s no evidence to support this assertion. Maybe you can get back to CF2K, littlejohn, when we see how many times Gonzales invokes the Fifth Amendment in his testimony.
I was on strike when the US Attorney scandal broke, so I didn’t get to comment. But nothing illustrates the lawlessness of this Administration, and their disregard for the basic institutions of democracy, like their use of US Attorneys to bring phony prosecutions against Democrats, and to shield Republican wrongdoers from legitimate investigation.
This is the rule of law we’re talkin’ about here, folks. When some on this board scramble to provide plausible deniability for such obvious misdeeds, it puts them in the same league as Rove and Gonzales.
When Clinton was getting hammered for “lying,” the Republicans kept saying that “it fits a pattern.”
Well, this fits a pattern. Petty political revenge is what these people DO.
That’s why the CIA is losing experienced old hands, because the administration scape-goated them for “intelligence failures” when anyone who’s not a Meshuge Mamzer knows that the intelligence was wholly manipulated by the Liar’s Club to justify their pre-existing hard-on to invade and occupy Iraq.
That’s why Valerie Plame was publically outed, ruining her career and exposing her contacts and covers–so Joe Wilson would feel the pain of speaking out against the president.
That’s why these 8 AG’s were summarily fired even after good performance reviews–to show that anything short of abject lap-dog-ism to Bush will not be tolerated.
That’s why Gov. W. Bush sent thousands of names to brother Jeb Bush so that these “felons” could be scrubbed from the voting rolls before the 2000 elections. Of course, the “felons” list included some Democratic congress people. It included ZERO Republicans.
And in 2004, the Florida voter purge targetted African-Americans but not Hispanic-Americans. Why? Because hispanics in Florida tend to be Cuban exiles more than Mexican immigrants–and they vote Republican . . .
It fits a pattern.
CF2K,
So what law was broken when they were fired?
REMEMBER THE “WE WILL BE GREETED WITH FLOWERS AND CANDY” LIE?
From Today’s NYTimes.
Look at the picture of the streets absolutely crammed with tens–perhaps hundreds–of thousands of marchers, and tell me again how the democratic state that we created justifies our continued occupation.
BAGHDAD, April 9 — Large crowds marched in the city of Najaf today, the fourth anniversary of the fall of Baghdad, to protest the American occupation of Iraq.
Skip to next paragraphEnlarge This ImageCeerwan Aziz/ReutersSome at the rally waved small Iraqi flags; others hoisted a giant flag 10 yards long. More Photos »
MultimediaSlide ShowProtests in Najaf The peaceful demonstration was being held at the urging of militant Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr. He exhorted Iraqi security forces on Sunday to unite with his militiamen against the American military in Diwaniya, an embattled southern city in Iraq where fighting has raged for four days.
Mr. Sadr’s statement did not explicitly call for armed struggle against the Americans, but it still represented his most forceful condemnation of the American-led occupation since he went underground after the start of an intensified Baghdad security crackdown nearly two months ago.
The demonstrators, appearing to number in the tens of thousands, marched to Najaf, 100 miles south of Baghdad, from neighboring Kufa, with two cordons of Iraqi police lining the route. Some at the rally waved small Iraqi flags; others hoisted a giant flag 10 yards long, the Associated Press reported. Leaflets fluttered through the breeze reading: “Yes, Yes to Iraq” and “Yes, Yes to Moktada. Occupiers should leave Iraq.”
Exactly, GMC; from what I’ve read, it seems (at this point) incompetence, rather than a deliberate action, is the root cause. Now, if there is evidence adduced, an entirely different thing, no?
Posted by: Vaughn Tolle | April 09, 2007 at 11:05 AM
Vaughn – I know very little about the law, and since you’re the resident lawyer, when does incompetence become negligence, and therefore, a crime? It seems to me that it starts out as incompetence, but once the incompetence is revealed, and nothing is done about it, it becomes negligence.
CapnAmerica,
We were greeted with flowers and cheering in the streets.
Do you forget the people tearing down all the Saddam statues and pictures rejoicing in the streets?
This is years later.
Once again the inability to grasp context or your purposeful distortion?
I didn’t backpedal at all. The US attorneys are ALL political appointees and serve at the pleasure of any administration. It was not “career us atttorneys that was fired. Nor did I say all persecutions are political. DOes it happen? Sure. We have ALL seen cases people with connections either was not persecuted or got off with very light gentleman’s agreements. Do I think that is undesirable? OF COURSE I DO! Just because it happens, and I agree it happens does not mean I agree with it. I think everyone who commits a crime should be persecuted. Period. I don;t give a shit who you are, so don;t try and hang that crap on me. I said Gonazalez should be fired for being stupid, not for any violation. Be way, the fifthe amendment is a constitutional right, perhaps you wish to do away with it?
We were greeted with flowers and cheering in the streets.Posted by: Nathan | April 09, 2007 at 12:15 PM
We were greeted that way by the Shiites. The Sunni greeting hasn’t changed: Hot lead at high velocity.
The Sunnis were part of the Ba’ath Political Party who suppressed Shiites and were kicked out of power.
Let’s not pooh on our brave Marine Nathan who has been to Iraq and served with honor.
TDT, negligence is not criminal behavior. Behavior becomes criminal when it (the behavior) is such that it violates statutes proscribing such, and imposing penalties (imprisonment, fines as examples) for the same. Generally, a crime requires intent to act in the way proscribed by the penal statute, a mens rea which may be specific or general (depending upon the crime); negligence, by its definition, does not involve intent. Indeed, negligence is a “tort” (civil wrong); there exist “intentional torts”, e.g., defamation, assault, battery, but again, in general, these are “civil” wrongs, not “criminal” wrongs (proscribed by statute), although there may be statutes making these actions crimes.
Republican, excuse me? Don’t even *try* to suggest that I’m dissing the men and women of the US armed forces who are risking life and limb in Iraq and Afghanistan every day.
Nathan made a political statement. I get to make a political response.
Shame on you for trying to make my words something they’re not.
Nathan, I’m very proud of what you have done. You bring honor to yourself and your country.
But there is a dark side to American politics, and you’re seeing just the tip of the iceberg here from liberals who won’t be happy until the United States is defeated.
In the grand tradition of such traitors, as J Fonda, these appeasement-Leftists try on a daily basis to undermine the integrity of our nation.
You are in a category so far above them – you needn’t even concern yourself with their tripe.
You are the future of this great nation.
They are nothing but an embarrassment. Our Founding Fathers would be ashamed of the Liberals today.
Tom, I wasn’t trying, it was cross-haired and shot. :)
I can promise you that if I were about to be taken over by a hardline fundamentalist regime, I would also fire hot lead at high velocity.
Tom, I wasn’t trying, it was cross-haired and shot. :)Posted by: Republican | April 09, 2007 at 12:33 PM
That makes no sense. What are you trying to say, Republican?
Tom, you said I was “trying to make my words something they’re not.”
I wasn’t trying, it was deliberate. :)
You’re deliberately trying to make my words something they’re not?
Lovely. Such a great way to conduct intelligent discourse. “Let’s make something up and pretend someone else said it.” I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
It’s now been 2 years and 3 days since I quit the Republican Party. Statements like yours make me happier with my choice every day. Thank you for helping my self-esteem today, Republican.
http://freedemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/04/paul-krugman-sweet-little-lies.html
The scroll-overs are out in force today: GSheridan and the Meshugener.
Here’s something to get the smell of their flop-sweat out of your nose.
Paul Krugman’s latest, “Sweet Little Lies.”
The Clinton years were a parade of fake scandals: Whitewater, Troopergate, Travelgate, Filegate, Christmas-card-gate. At the end, there were false claims that Clinton staff members trashed the White House on their way out.
Each pseudoscandal got headlines, air time and finger-wagging from the talking heads. The eventual discovery in each case that there was no there there, if reported at all, received far less attention. The effect was to make an administration that was, in fact, pretty honest and well run — especially compared with its successor — seem mired in scandal.
Even in the post-9/11 environment, little lies never went away. In particular, promoting little lies seems to have been one of the main things U.S. attorneys, as loyal Bushies, were expected to do. For example, David Iglesias, the U.S. Attorney in New Mexico, appears to have been fired because he wouldn’t bring unwarranted charges of voter fraud.
There’s a lot of talk now about a case in Wisconsin, where the Bush-appointed U.S. attorney prosecuted the state’s purchasing supervisor over charges that a court recently dismissed after just 26 minutes of oral testimony, with one judge calling the evidence “beyond thin.” But by then the accusations had done their job: the unjustly accused official had served almost four months in prison, and the case figured prominently in attack ads alleging corruption in the Democratic governor’s administration.
http://freedemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/04/paul-krugman-sweet-little-lies.html
Thanks Tom. I didn’t know I had that much power that retro-actively affected your decision making. :)
Nathan,
The “law” that was broken is so fundamental that one could call it the “law of law”: it’s called the rule of law, and the notion by which it proceeds is that Justice is blind. Wrongdoing should be punished, the innocent should not have trumped-up charges brought against them, and that the apparatus of justice is not the property of any one faction or partisan interest.
littlejohn,
While we don’t yet know how far this US Attorney scandal actually goes, it is obviously well beyond merely Alberto Gonzales. And again, you’re trying to sidestep the substantive charge here, which is that the Administration–Bush, Rove, et al–employed the Federal prosecutorial apparatus in an effort to tie up Democrats with false prosecutions, while bringing a halt to ongoing investigations against Republicans. There already exists a pretty long paper trail suggesting a deliberate and longstanding effort by the Administration to do just that.
A further point: it is indeed the right of Presidents to appoint and fire U.S. Attorneys at will. What isn’t the President’s right is to lie about the reasons for having done so. When, for example, “negative performance evaluations” were referenced as a reason for the firing, this was shown not to have been the case with regard to both David Iglesias AND Carol Lam. But, littlejohn, if the President can just ‘hire and fire’ at will, why would the Administration have even felt the need to PROVIDE a rationale–one that actually turned out to be false?
The answer is that this set of hirings and firings is unique and quite unprecedented. They couldn’t very well come out and say that these prosecutors were fired for not playing ball with the White House’s insistence that every possible “voter fraud” case be pursued against every possible Democrat. Why not? Because EVERYBODY KNOWS that the power of the U.S. Attorneys is NOT to be used for partisan political ends. So, as is usually the case with this Administration, they made up some flimsy lies and thought they could bully the press into buying them. What they didn’t bargain on was a Congress that had grown some cajones.
So, littlejohn, I stand by my criticism of your prevarications. As for that cheesy red herring (mmm-cheesy red herring!) at the end about how CF2K would do away with the Fifth Amendment–please. If you’re going to trap CF2K, you’ll need to try harder.
GSheridan–
Here’s repeating the challenge I made yesterday:
Would you care to make a little wager to back up that big mouth of yours?
I have 50 bucks that says the Dems will keep their majorities in the House and the Senate in ‘08.
Wanna bet?
Retro-active decision making? WTF? How you got that out of anything I’ve typed is beyond me.
I have some advice for you: Get up from your computer chair. Move around a little. Get some blood flowing back to your brain. Come back and chat when you’re feeling better.
Until then, I have work that must be done.
I should point out in all fairness that so far I’ve won the two bets I’ve made so far:
1. Joe Williams claimed that Iraq would be safer and more stable in a year (in Oct 2006) than it was in Oct 2005.
He was wrong.
2. Hank Price claimed that the Dems would lose seats in the 2006 Congressional elections. In fact, the Dems lost NO contested races and gained control of the House and the Senate despite massive and desperate re-districting in the previous four years.
Tom–
That’s the big difference between you and Republican, or as I call him, Meshuge Mamzer.
You work.
Tom, thanks for giving me insight into your level of understanding.
In the future, I’ll cull my sophisticated humor to a lessor form for your benefit so you might visualize what is being written.
Capn, It’s cool that you’ve won two bets.
Now do you want a medal or a chest to pin it on. :)
While we don’t yet know how far this US Attorney scandal actually goes, it is obviously well beyond merely Alberto Gonzales. And again, you’re trying to sidestep the substantive charge here, which is that the Administration–Bush, Rove, et al–employed the Federal prosecutorial apparatus in an effort to tie up Democrats with false prosecutions, while bringing a halt to ongoing investigations against Republicans. There already exists a pretty long paper trail suggesting a deliberate and longstanding effort by the Administration to do just that”
If so, bring on the charges. I have no problem with that. Start with Gonzalez and work your way up to whatever you have evidence for. I have yet to see any evidence of that, just conjecture.
“But, littlejohn, if the President can just ‘hire and fire’ at will, why would the Administration have even felt the need to PROVIDE a rationale–one that actually turned out to be false?”
I have no idea, hence my original post. I agree, it was stupid at the least
And it was my understanding that CF2K was using Gonzalez’s use of the Fifth Amendment in his testimony to say that there was obviously something wrong or he wouldn’s have used the fifth amendment. That is what I was responding to. Not trying to TRAP anyone, just responding.
Capn America obviously hates disabled people, especially disabled veterans as he constantly makes attacks on them.
Of course, one would have to care what CapnAmerica says is worth repeating outside of an abandoned phone booth.
Mamzer–
At least they had the guts to take a position and stand by it.
You just keep trying to impress us all with your mysterious and multifaceted personas.
Hasn’t worked, by the way . . .
Global Warming not such a big deal says MIT scientist. He’s from MIT so maybe he knows what he’s talking about. Maybe.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17997788/site/newsweek/
Oh, boo hoo, Republican Mamzer.
I believe that you’re disabled as much as I believe you have a black grandmother . . .
A black grandmother? Not to my knowledge Capn. You have me confused with someone else.
You keep making these weird statements of who you think I am.
Prove it Capn or you ain’t got a hair.
You will find you are dead wrong, as usual.
Prove that you’re a disabled vet.
Aesop wrote, “A liar is never believed, even when he tells the truth.”
Bush is finding that out too . . .
Capn – it will have to be a friendly bet. I would love to wager money, but besides the fact that it is illegal, I would need to meet you to collect my winnings. And that just won’t do.
I would give you the letter from the Department of Veteran that has my case number and describes my disability Capn, but quite frankly I don’t trust you.
Besides, it wouldn’t deter you from attacking me. You said you wouldn’t do that once already and you lied.
Wrong again, GSheridan.
We can agree to pay the charity of our choice.
Nice attempt at a weasel out though . . .
Christ, listen to GSher and Republican whine about attacks while being the two worst attack artists on the blog……..
Okay, Mamzer, I believe you.
NOT.
And neither does any other thinking reader of this Blog . . . you notice how many other folks are backing you up on this?
Incompetence in the airline ranks? Absurd! We know that NEVER happens. It MUST have been malicious and politically motivated!
Hey Capn, I’ll make that bet. I’ll even give you the $50.00 now. If I win though, I want it returned with ten percent compounded weekly started today until the date the Republican President is sworn in. :)
Gsheridan,
When you win the bet, make this your prize.
http://conservativebuys.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop/newest/rightwingstuff.99811649
Or better yet, make Capn wearing it the prize! :)
Oh, look, WS, the trouble maker is back to stalk us some more.
Until the next time he grabs up his marbles and runs off like a little girl….again.
lol
Capn,
I don’t care about anyone “backing” me up. I wouldn’t back anyone else on the thread for a condition if I haven’t seen them in person.
With that said, if someone makes a statement about a condition, I would have to assume it is true until I can prove otherwise.
In the United States, people are assumed innocent until proved guilty.
That just cannot be WSClark. He already posted his “last” post and said would not return. So surely that can’t be him.
….either that or there’s a troll at work. And if THAT’S the case, perhaps there should be a STRIKE!
You have been proved guilty, Mamzer.
You cut-and-pasted posts to make people “say” things they weren’t saying.
That was a lie and anybody can see it was a lie.
Which makes you a liar.
Get it, Meshugener?
Don’t make me get that post where you called yourself a liar Capn. :)
GS is still not taking my bet.
Yup, all mouth.
And how about Republican Mamzer?
You wanna make a real bet?
Nah . . . you’d never pay up and one would have to be a damn fool to think otherwise.
Capn:
You’ve repeatedly made the nic-switching charge Re: Republican. I for one am tired of hearing about it ad infinitum.
So prove it. Remember; you made the charge, you carry the burden. Repub. need not prove who he is not (and how would one do that anyway?).
This charge from one who abandoned his last nic after having his _ss handed to him – from both sides – when he said something stupid. Remember, Galahad? (I think that was the name at the time).
Or you could just let it go and move on to real issues.
GMC is tired of hearing about something.
Stop the presses!
1. I have admitted many times that I have posted under other nics. Galahad was one of them. I’m surprised you’re NOT TIRED of hearing me admit it.
I never claimed to be a different person however with different backgrounds and experiences.
2. I cannot prove that Republican is the troll I believe him to be. However, quite a bit of circumstantial evidence has emerged over the months.
You are familiar with that concept, GMC? Circumstantial evidence? You do use that in your line of work, do you not?
3. While I cannot prove that Republican is the worst troll on the WEBlog, I can prove that he knowingly misused posts on more than one occasion to make them say the opposite of what the post-er intended them to say.
That is a clear lie, and given the other evidence, it confirms the suspicions many of us have about “Republican.”
“I cannot prove that Republican is the troll I believe him to be. However, quite a bit of circumstantial evidence has emerged over the months.”
Yea, Capn, I’ve seen your posting of this “circumstantial evidence” you speak of. It hardly rises to the level of “circumstantial evidence,” much less proof.
Your burden, Capn. Or let it go.
The debate is over. I’m tired of hearing about claims that Republican is other nics. I’m tired of hearing about nics in general. Perhaps a boycot is in order. The debate is over and every knows it.
Thanks for your opinion.
I will carefully weigh its merits and give it all the consideration it deserves.
As a valued post-er here, your opinion is important to us.
Without the spirited give-and-take of well-informed indiduals like yourself, the WEBlog would not be the place we know it to be.
“Let’s not pooh on our brave Marine Nathan who has been to Iraq and served with honor.”
So nobody can diss a veteran? Or is just Iraqi veterans no one can diss? Just wondering, so I don’t make that mistake in the future. And just because Nathan served in Iraq, it doesn’t mean he is aware of everything that went on throughout that country. He was told what he needed to know. (No offense intended, Nathan.)
“But there is a dark side to American politics, and you’re seeing just the tip of the iceberg here from liberals who won’t be happy until the United States is defeated.”
Oh, please, GS. And you’re on the side that talks about OUR conspiracy theories. As far as “defeated” goes, in the eyes of the world, the U.S. has lost the respect it once held. There’s no way THAT can be blamed on the liberals.
As for No Fly Lists, a friend of mine from Australia was detained in the Houston airport, questioned for some time, then released with 10 minutes left to catch her connecting flight to L.A. so she could fly home from there. Why? Nobody knows.
“In February 2006, U.S. Senator Ted Stevens stated in a committee hearing that his wife Catherine had been subjected to questioning at an airport as to whether she was Cat Stevens due to the similarity of their names.”
Maybe they need to get older people to do the checking and questioning. Or give those who are currently doing it eye exams and glasses. Who wants to bet she was a blonde white woman? And they thought she was Cat Stevens! Best joke of the day. Well, except for the Bush apologists here.
“Oh, look, WS, the trouble maker is back to stalk us some more.”
Yes, I am dropping in from time to time. I have to admit that several dastardly left wing commies came to me with a proposition – if I can get GSher and Republican to stroke out, I get a free trip to the socialistic country of my choice. It was an offer that I could not refuse.
I get double bonus points if I knock off Fleet in the process.
So, I am just laughing my tail off watching Khan and GSher twist themselves into knots justifying their attacks while condemning ours.
It is hilarious.
Oh, and for the benefit of Mr. Republican who is apparently incapable of recognizing it, the my first paragraph after the paste was SARCASM.
ROFwL, WSC!
Good one.
Evidently, there is limited experience by some fliers what inconvenience really is.
When I was on flying duty in the Air Force we would occasionally land in Istanbul, Turkey. They have a very strict Customs law.
Even though we were on board a military Aircraft, the Turks would on occasion have us unload an aircraft either partially or wholly to ensure we weren’t carrying contraband. Let me tell you that is a real pain, especially when things such as jet engines are on the cargo list.
Sometimes some of the items would have to be quarantined in Turkish Customs. So, someone from the Aircraft would have to stay behind and keep an eye on the quarantined items. Did that a couple of times, it wasn’t pleasant.
BTW, Turkey is a NATO ally. Just think what they would do if they hated us. :D
WSCLark,
I know you are a prankster from time to time. I also know you are serious from time to time. I know you like to stroke the mane of the lion now and then. I also know you like ’spurring’ just to get a reaction.
I think we are more alike that different in that regard.
The difference is, you seem to let it get the best of you.
Don’t let it do that, have fun…enjoy.
that different = than different
Yeah, what’s the matter with you, Clark?
You act like words have meanings.
It’s a lot more fun if you just eff with people . . .
Thanks Vaughn, I think I’ve been in the social services field too long, and sometimes just don’t see the difference!
That’s true, Capn’, and I can eff with the best of them. In fact, I have had a number of girlfriends tell me that I was a good eff’er.
Words have meaning? Who wudda thunk it?
WS – I’m glad to hear you’re laughing – because that makes two of us.
There’s nothing more comical than a grown man who can’t get over being called a name.
ROFL
Hey, WS – I think I heard your mammy calling you home…..
“The difference is, you seem to let it get the best of you.”
No, it never gets the best of me. Ever.
“Hey, WS – I think I heard your mammy calling you home…..”
My mother died 18 months ago. The reason that I do not work at this point is that I frequently have to “move” to Florida for a month at a time to care for my 91 year old father.
And there is a substantial different between calling someone a name and using an ethnic slur.
Of course, I would not expect someone like you to understand that.
Oh no – it doesn’t get the best of Mr. “Let’s Run Away and Boycott, if the WEBlog Editors Don’t Cave to Our Demands.”
Or Mr. “He called me a name. He called me a name. He called me a name.”
Crybaby.
I thought the reason you didn’t work is that you retired?
Regardless, glad you are taking responsibility caring for your father. Not many willing to do that these days. It’s usually the rest home treatment.
As usual, GSher, you twist and obfuscate.
The boycott was never about “demands” and it had always been establish that some, if not all, were going to come back. We never said that we were not going to come back unless “demands” were met.
And I have already stated that I supported the boycott in deference to Linda Inks.
Second, as I said, there is a substantial difference between calling a name and using an ethnic slur.
If you have difficulty understanding that, well, that is obviously just a product of your mindset of hatred for your fellow man.
“I thought the reason you didn’t work is that you retired?”
I am retired, but I am not eligible for SS yet. I would like to work, but taking a month or six weeks off is considered to be a career limiting factor. Also, I never know when the time will come. He has several artificial joints, macular degeneration and has had a quad bypass.
The last time I went, I received notice on Monday, arrive Tuesday evening.
You know I’m not usually one to step in when it doesn’t involve me but I just saw something outrageous and I have to say something about it. This is just ridiculous:
“Oh no – it doesn’t get the best of Mr. “Let’s Run Away and Boycott, if the WEBlog Editors Don’t Cave to Our Demands.”
Or Mr. “He called me a name. He called me a name. He called me a name.”
Crybaby.”
GS, there was no call for this. I am not a huge fan of WS but I still don’t think that anyone deserves to be treated this way especially from someone who sat here for two weeks talking about how nice she was and how nice she was going to be when the boycotters came back.
Actually, if you want to shut up, GSheridan, just challenge her to a bet with real money.
All mouth . . . no guts.
FYI… WS is male…
“FYI… WS is male…”
Uh… duh… Is there a point?
AFN – Glad to see you’re actively monitoring the board. You’re wrong, however, if anyone deserves to have the truth of their comments held against them – it’s WS.
CapnCrunch – I told you – a friendly bet – that’s it.
Under NO circumstances would I EVER set up a deal where you and I would meet.
Get real.
Tsk, tsk, GSher, the more you get worked up about my comments, the closer I am to the trip to Sweden.
Twist, GSher, twist, twist and twist.
So? Head to Sweden. What do I care?
Country full of pancake-flippers.
But if that’s what turns you on….
Jeez, Capn’, I thought you made a great offer to Sheridan – fifty bucks to be donated to charity?
No face to face meeting – that saves you – and no matter who wins, fifty bucks goes to a worthy charity.
I would take your bet except I agree with you……..
littlejohn,
“And it was my understanding that CF2K was using Gonzalez’s use of the Fifth Amendment in his testimony to say that there was obviously something wrong or he wouldn’s have used the fifth amendment. That is what I was responding to. Not trying to TRAP anyone, just responding.”
Agreed: CF2K’s suggestion was, indeed, that Gonzales’ threat to take the Fifth did, indeed, portend that he has something to hide. I don’t think this therefore committed me to the view was that the Fifth should be revoked, but whatever. Not terribly important.
No surprise to see the self-appointed, self-righteous Right Wing Civility Police sniping away as usual.
Damn, that was a witty comeback, GSher.
Capn – sorry, didn’t see the ‘charity,’ part.
I’ll take that bet, after all.
Because, I damn witty, WS.
Did you expect less?
I damn = I AM damn
sheesh – WS’ bad writing is rubbing off on me.
Why is CF2K talking like a Muppet in the third person?
Because CF2K does a mean Kermit the Frog voice, that’s why.
That one was even better – typical Republican tactic – blame your failures on the Liberals.
CF2K-
i am a little fuzzy headed today, was your last comment to me? I don;t think I said anything about civility.
In actuality, I agree that it makes one look guilty to plead the fifth. However, it is often used as a legal ploy for other reasons, at least so it seems to me as a layperson, including just not wanting to answer quesitons.
The Fifth is taken to protect one’s self from self-incrimination, the obvious implication being the one is guilty of SOMETHING. The Fifth cannot be used to avoid answering a question to protect against a possible perjury charge.
The net result is that a DOJ official should not be guilty of violating the law.
i agree with WS last statement. And if true that he is, persecuted to the FULLEST extent of the law.
littlejohn,
I was swiping at GSheridan’s ‘civility.’ You, by contrast, have been the very model of decorum.
Agreed as to the status of pleading the “Fifth.” However, as I’m sure you also realize, hearings before a Senate committee are at least as political as they are legal. So using a ploy such as the Fifth might be legally sound while also being politically disadventageous. I suspect Gonzales is going to find out first hand precisely HOW disadventageous.
Oh, and it is not legal to take the Fifth just to avoiding answering questions. In this case, to do so would result in a contempt charge.
CF2K-I do agree.
I’ll keep the Kermit the Frog image in my mind CF2K the next time I see you post something. :)
GS, like I said, I am not a fan of WS. I thoroughly disagree with many of the things he says and many times the way he says them BUT that doesn’t give anyone an excuse to attack. I had hoped everyone would be over that crap by now…
Given the presumption of “innocent, until proven guilty” and the Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination, there should be no conclusions drawn from a witness asserting his/her constitutional rights. That’s the theory; the posts above reflect the position of the public on the matter.
I have never pleaded the fifth, although I have pleaded for a fifth. :)
If a witness is granted immunity – the Fifth does not apply to them at all. They can’t take it at that point.
It is my sentiment, however, should I have a reason to do so, I would have to consciously make a decision to disregard my sentiment and rule simply on the evidence presented. However, as has been state, Senate hearings are as policital in nature as legal. I think straightfoward answers are the best recourse in such cases
AFN – I’m just joshin’ with WS.
It doesn’t bother him. He likes it. Ask him.
Sorry you’re not a fan AFN, but not everybody is going to agree. I have just one rule when I post; I never draw first blood. Never.
I know that it is difficult to believe, but I have conservative friends, right here on this very blog.
I never take shots at them. Ever.
One of them is RM. No only do I not take shots at him, but I consider him a friend. We have exchanged e-mails on private subjects. I have never taken a shot at Writer Dog, either. I consider him to be a friend as well.
Neither of those individuals have ever been anything but respectful.
My oldest and best friend of forty years is conservative. We have “discussions.” Sometimes the debate gets heated. We are always civil.
I did not draw first blood with Republican, GSheridan or Fleetwood, but I am not going to sit back and allow them to take shots are me without retaliation.
I respect your opinion, AFN. I am not surprised, of course, that you dislike my positions and my method of delivery. You can’t please everyone.
I do appreciate, however, that you stuck up for me.
And I mean that sincerely.
Dumping ISP May Cost Customers $150
John Dunbar, AP Writer
WASHINGTON — Breaking up with your Internet service provider isn’t hard to do — but it may cost you.
Customers who subscribe to a high-speed Internet plan may pay $150 or more if they terminate their service before their contract has expired, according to a new survey from Consumers Union, the nonprofit publisher of Consumer Reports magazine.
The practice is well known among cell phone providers — early termination fees in that industry run from $150 to $240 per line, according to the group.
Coke or Water for your children & you?
Water or Coke?
Very interesting
~r
WATER
#1. 75% of Americans are chronically dehydrated.
(Likely applies to half the world population.)
#2. In 37% of Americans, the thirst mechanism is so weak
that it is mistaken for hunger.
#3. Even MILD dehydration will slow down one’s metabolism as 3%.
#4. One glass of water will shut down midnight hunger pangs
for almost 100% of the dieters studied in a University of
Washington study.
#5. Lack of water, the #1 trigger of daytime fatigue.
#6. Preliminary research indicates that 8-10 glasses of
water a day could significantly ease back and joint pain
for up to 80% of sufferers.
#7. A mere 2% drop in body water can trigger fuzzy short-term
memory, trouble with basic math, and difficulty focusing on
the computer screen or on a printed page.
#8. Drinking 5 glasses of water daily decreases the risk of
colon cancer by 45%, plus it can slash the risk of breast
cancer by 79%., and one is 50% less likely to develop
bladder cancer. Are you drinking the amount of water
you should drink every day?
COKE
#1. In many states the highway patrol carries
two gallons of Coke in the trunk to remove blood from
the highway after a car accident.
#2. You can put a T-bone steak in a bowl of Coke
and it will be gone in two days.
#3. To clean a toilet: Pour a can of Coca-Cola into the
toilet bowl and let the “real thing” sit for one hour,
then flush clean. The citric acid in Coke removes
stains from vitreous china.
#4. To remove rust spots from chrome car bumpers:
Rub the bumper with a rumpled-up piece of Reynolds
Wrap aluminum foil dipped in Coca-Cola.
#5. To clean corrosion from car battery terminals: Pour
a can of Coca-Cola over the terminals to bubble
away the corrosion.
#6. To loosen a rusted bolt: Apply a cloth soaked in Coca-Cola
to the rusted bolt for several minutes.
#7. To bake a moist ham: Empty a can of Coca-Cola into
the baking pan, wrap the ham in aluminum foil, and bake.
Thirty minutes before ham is finished, remove the foil, allowing the
drippings to mix
with the Coke for a sumptuous brown gravy.
#8… To remove grease from clothes: Empty a can of Coke
into the load of greasy clothes, add detergent, and run
through a regular cycle. The Coca-Cola will help loosen
grease stains. It will also clean road haze from your
windshield.
FOR YOUR INFORMATION:
#1. the active ingredient in Coke is phosphoric acid.
It will dissolve a nail in about four days. Phosphoric
acid also leaches calcium from bones and is a major
contributor to the rising increase of osteoporosis.
#2. To carry Coca-Cola syrup! (the concentrate) the
commercial trucks must use a hazardous Material place
cards reserved for highly corrosive materials.
#3. The distributors of Coke have been using it to clean
engines of the trucks for about 20 years!
Now the question is, would you like a glass of water?
or Coke?
WS – what a LIAR!
You started with me – and you know it.
You couldn’t stay out of an argument I was having with FarmFap and you rolled right on in. I hadn’t even addressed you before that.
And what’s with the ‘first blood’ talk?
Who do you think you are?
Rambo?
ROFLMAO
WS, you’re welcome and I’m sorry if what I said sounded like I hate you or something because I certainly don’t. I was just trying to point out that although I don’t always agree with you, I still don’t think it’s right to attack you. I also try to respect everyone’s opinion even though I often get a little too heated to think straight:)
As for you GS, it sure doesn’t sound like he “likes it” but I’m going to step back now and try to give you the benefit of the doubt that that is what you really believe…
“You started with me – and you know it.”
Nonsense, GSheridan, you jumped me LONG before the Farm Grrl GSheridan Wars ever started. You KNOW that you are one of the worst, if not THEE worst, attack artists in the History of Western Civilization.
Don’t play cute – it does not become you.
“I never take shots at them. Ever.”
It seems ws has a different definition of what “never” or “ever” means. Like when she said, “I will never, ever go back to blog x, ever.” Maybe it’s one of her cultural things, I don’t know, but when she says “never” or “ever” please excuse me if I don’t believe her.
“Coke or Water for your children & you?Water or Coke?”
This looks like something Snopes would tear up.
Whatever do you mean fleettwood? :D
Rambo? Yes, now that you mention it.
I kind of like the first incarnation – never saw the other six or seven, to be honest.
But, hmmm, the Rambo of the Blog?
Yeah, has a bit of a ring to it.
Have a nice afternoon, GSheridan, I have a couple errands to run but I’ll drop in later to antagonize you.
Whoops! I meant I’ll drop in to “debate” with you.
WS – you’ve dug your own grave.
You jumped me when I walked in the door.
I’m just returning the favor.
“The worst attack artist in Western Civilization?”
You flatter me.
But, obviously you haven’t been reading your own posts, or FarmFap’s lately.
Sorry, you those Fleetwoods and Republicans out there. I evaluated the situation and reassessed my position – much as did your hero George Bush when it came to the DHS, etc.
Besides, I can’t pass up the possibility of a trip to Sweden….
And thanks for joining in Fleet, I get bonus points for taking you with GSher and Khan.
Go ahead, take off, WS. Heat getting to you?
BTW – Rambo was icky.
Yeah, Fleetwood, Mythbusters on the Discovery Channel busted at least half of those…
What’s with the trip to Sweden?
No one in their right mind goes there.
Oh wait….I see.
“You jumped me when I walked in the door.”
Nope, GSher you came in with a BAD GIRL reputation and lived down to it immediately. I distinctly remember being shocked (?) that you attacked us from the very beginning. It was like you were channeling…… RepubliKhan.
Now you can roll on the floor.
Or what ever it is that you do….
Back to one of the subjects at hand – I think the point was made that if Libby had never said anything he would have never been charged. The charge, if you remember right had nothing to do with outting a covert agent but was about ‘what did you hear and when did you hear it?’
If he had just used Hillarys favorite answer ‘I don’t recall’, he could never have been charged.
Takeing the fifth might accomplish the same self protection.
You memory fails you.
Why am I not surprised?
Weren’t you supposed to be going somewhere?
Oops, I posted this and I’m not sure why it doesn’t have my name on it…
“Yeah, Fleetwood, Mythbusters on the Discovery Channel busted at least half of those…”
And actually, it was more like the majority of them were busted not just half.
“Go ahead, take off, WS. Heat getting to you?”
Heat doesn’t both me in the least, but I wonder why you would say that. Is it getting hot somewhere?
It’s certainly not getting hot in here, that’s for sure.
I am taking off to the GROCERY STORE.
And then I am going to drop in on my dealer and score some primo grass for a wild sex orgy that I am having with my girlfriend tonight. After the orgy, we are going to take turns reading select passages from Quotations from Chairman Mao before we watch a DVD – Billy Jack Goes to Washington.
See ya!!!!
“You memory fails you.”
It’s YOUR, GSher, YOUR……
Republican,
To assist you in your multimedia CF2K experience, here’s a pic:
http://www.whysanity.net/muppets/mimages/kermit.gif
as well as the lyrics to one of CF2K’s favorite songs…
“The Rainbow Connection”
…sung in the voice of Kermit.
“Why are there so many songs about rainbowsAnd what’s on the other side?Rainbows are visions, but only illusions,And rainbows have nothing to hide.So we’ve been told and some choose to believe itI know they’re wrong, wait and see.Someday we’ll find it, the rainbow connection,The lovers, the dreamers and me.Who said that every wish would be heard and answeredWhen wished on the morning star?Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it,And look what it’s done so far.What’s so amazing that keeps us stargazingAnd what do we think we might see?Someday we’ll find it, the rainbow connection,The lovers, the dreamers, and me.All of us under its spell,We know that it’s probably magic…Have you been half asleep? And have you heard voices?I’ve heard them calling my name.Is this the sweet sound that calls the young sailors?The voice might be one and the sameI’ve heard it too many times to ignore itIt’s something that I’m s’posed to beSomeday we’ll find it, the rainbow connection,The lovers, the dreamers, and me.”
(Words by Paul Williams, Music by Ken Ascher)
KHAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“What’s with the trip to Sweden?”
Well, I was going to go the Norway, being that my paternal grandmother was Norwegian, but I can’t do that.
Republican says that unless I participate in the traditions of said heritage, I cannot claim that heritage as mine.
Since I was orphaned and then adopted, I was raised by folks with a German background, so I guess I could go to Germany, but they aren’t very socialistic.
Besides, we never did any traditional German things like invading Poland or gassing the Jews.
If Bill had pleaded the fifth, apparently the rw wouldn’t of had a reason to impeach him, and he’d have been presumed innocent.
In the Weird News category, World Bank President Paul Wolfowitz has issued a statement taking “full responsibility” for his girlfriend’s being given a $193k salary, paid for by the World Bank, as a State Department-assigned staffperson. (She is paid more than Dr. Rice, the Department Secretary.)
Wolfowitz was one of the lead Iraq-invasion neocon architects–some say THE intellectual leader– while serving as Deputy Secretary of Defense.
Wolfowitz and his wife separated in 2001 or 2002 (the Net doesn’t establish whether they ever legally divorced), allegedly because his wife discovered he was sleeping with a young grad student in his department at Johns Hopkins University. (Sleeping with an educated JHU grad student is a whole lot better than Bill Clinton’s getting only BJ’s from a White House intern, anyway you spin it.)
So much for the moral leadership that the Moral Majority hoped to see in voting for Bushco. Attack Clinton’s libido, but let Republican leaders have a pass on the issue, unless the Moral Majority listens to Mike Huckabee.
Does the Moral Majority think that Dick Cheney will condemn gay/lesbian marriage as soon as daugher Mary gives up her lesbian partnership–of course if that happens she will become a single mom (currently pregnant by artificial insemination, it isn’t clear who is going to be assigned role-play the “father figure”).
Wolfowitz’s girlfriend, Shaha Riza is an Arab Muslim. Wolfowitz is a Jewish neo-Zionist. Does his mother approve of this relationship?
I wondered how long before the thread was Godwined!
Naw, Steve, they had already spent $75 million of OUR money investigating Clinton and God knows how much of Scairfe’s money, so they would have just keep right on looking.
Remember, Bob Barr (R – Nazi)drew up articles of impeachment LONG before Monica.
They would have investigated until they found or could concoct to impeach Clinton.
WS Calrk,
How is Bob Barr a Nazi?
Old Weird News. Mitt Romney’s father George ran for the Republican presidential nomination in 1968. Had he beat Nixon, there would have been a major Constitutional issue raised. Not getting that far, the issue was avoided.
George Romney, who wanted to become U.S. president, was born in Mexico. His parents were natural-born American citizens, but his father was a polygamist, which was outlawed here, so the family moved from Utah to Mexico to avoid the not-so-long arm of American law enforcement. (I worked with a member of the Romney family many years ago, who used to talk about the clan’s move to Mexico, from Utah.)
Mark that is hearsay and until you show us the evidence you shouldn’t repeat it. Ask WS why you shouldn’t spread rumors. Or was that someone else who said don’t spread rumors? Oh, I have it now, spread all the rumors you want about repubs but leave the dems alone, especially Billary.
Nathan I would like to know how WS knew Bill Barr was a nazi also. Maybe he did take a trip to Germany and got him mixed up with another Bill Barr.
Well, go to Sweden, if it pleases you, but I don’t think you’ll like it.
So – you don’t really KNOW if you have Jewish blood? Your adopted folks had some?
Screw Sweden, screw Germany – go to Italy. Now there’s a country that knows how to party.
“So – you don’t really KNOW if you have Jewish blood? Your adopted folks had some?”
I found both my paternal and maternal birth families in 1997.
I have read that twas his Grandparents (Mitt’s Great-Grand parents) that fled to Mexico to practice polygammy.
For those “sensitive” conservatives, the Nazi reference to Bob Barr is due to his mustache which gives him a passing reference to Hitler. That line has been often repeated in the Internet(s) blog world.
I am SOOOOOO sorry if any of you were offended by the name calling….
(For those that can’t get it – that was SARCASM)
And by the way, don’t give me any crap about comparing someone to Hitler when YOU PEOPLE accuse me of treason or sedition.
And that was not sarcasm.
Oh, I see. Well, Sweden still sucks. I have distant cousins in Germany and the Czech Republic, and likely some in Israel, but outside of a group that contacts us once in a blue moon for money, or to move there – I wouldn’t know. Leaving the Jewish sect is something to be shunned for, I guess. Who cares? Good riddance.
My favorite lineage goes to Old England and cared for the deer for the King. We were servants – keepers of the King’s herd – Roebucks. That same lineage has a man who died in an English hold here in the States during the Revolutionary War. I can be a DAR – if I want – but I don’t.
Genealogy and lineage is fun – but it’s not who we are.
My blood runs pure Red, White and Blue.
“Genealogy and lineage is fun – but it’s not who we are.”
When you had none for forty years (actually a bit more than 39) you learn to appreciate KNOWING who you are and where you came from, not just wondering.
Given that my a-father is a bit anti-Semitic, it is ironic, to say the least.
It is also a bit ironic that my b-father is also a bit anti-Semitic.
Who were you referring to with that ‘you people’ comment?
I have never accused you of treason or sedition.
The person that refers to liberals as YOU PEOPLE knows exactly who I am referring to. That is why it was in caps – meaning the same emphasis as putting it in quotes.
Nothing more needs to be said.
I prefer “Those people” ;-)
“I have never accused you of treason or sedition.”
I have taken back the treason charge many times, but ws likes his victimhood.The sedition charge stays.
I don’t think I have seen someone cry so much over such a long time as WS Clark.
Sedition is still a capital crime, Fleet Idiot.
Do think that is funny?
“Do think that is funny?”
No, you should stop committing it.
The only people that have violated my civil rights were 19 people on 9-11
Nice try, Fleet Idiot. If I am guilty of sedition and sedition is a capital crime, why don’t you have me arrested and prosecuted? In fact, why aren’t you making a citizens arrest? For that matter, since about 70% of the American population agrees with me, why don’t you demand that all of us be herding into a concentration camp?
Your hero, George W Bush, has the power under the (Un)Patriot Act to imprison anyone, including American citizens, so why doesn’t he just have us all arrested?
If we are guilty, why are we walking free?
Don’t tell me he would be playing the numbers, now. If we are guilty, you and he should just step up and do the right thing as Americans, correct?
So what are you waiting for, Fleet?
Do you need my address?
“the (Un)Patriot Act to imprison anyone, including American citizens….?
I hate this argument. Like it is not possible for a natural born American citizen to join militant islams war on terror (John Walker Lindh)?I do not see Bush disenters being lined up, locked up as many claim will happen.We win the war on terror, it could and should be repealed. I don’t see any Japanese Americans in internment camps these days.
“Do you need my address?”
Yes.
One, because it has not happened yet, does not mean that it can’t happen, Mr. KIA. Just remember, the Republicans gave that power to the president – any president.
Will you be so sure of yourself if it were President Hillary Clinton?
Actually, since I am working for him, I am going to ask that he charge Fleet with sedition and have him sent to Gitmo as soon as Barack Obama takes the oath of office.
And Fleet, if you want my address – my e-mail addy is live. I pick up mail at that site periodically. It is not my live addy, but it is functional.
If you want my address, sent me an e-mail.
I do understand your and the point WS of the power given the Executive Branch by the Patriot Act. It is also why I would call for a repeal once this war is won (using the internment of Japanese Americans as an example of constituitional questionable decisions necessary during a time of war).I do have more faith in the Government during a time of war which of course the many of the elected Democrats do not seem to recognize we are in, so sure that is scary and why I will continue to vote for pro-war candidates.
So what did Iraq have to do with the war on terror, Mr. KIA?
GSheridan–
Thanks for taking my bet.
50 bucks says that the Dems will control both the Senate and the House after the ‘08 elections.
If I win, you can send your check to The Nation Associates in my name. I’ll give you the details later.
Capn’ is not IF you win your bet it is WHEN you win…..
Work on that. Now for your mistake, since you are a Democrat and Democrats take personal responsibility, you are sentenced to five minutes timeout.
No appeals, that would be unAmerican.
Waah waah, waah waah, you’re so mean, Clark!
Guess who I sound like, hehehe . . .
Gotta go for now. Cya.
Funny Nathan should bring this up “Do you forget the people tearing down all the Saddam statues and pictures rejoicing in the streets?” Then on the 6:00 news they interview the guy with the sledge hammer going after the base of the statue, and he’s saying “we were better off before the invasion then we are now”. Of course having been there I’m sure Nathan could dispute that!
Of course, Steve, the OTHER side will never acknowledge that the Saddam statue incident was shown to be a military staged exercise, but what the Hell.
If you see some of the footage from that day, footage from a position pulled back from the military point of view, you can see that there are very few Iraqi’s “celebrating” and the scene hardly looks like a spontaneous outbreak.
Of course, the military would never use propaganda, right.
No Jessica Lynch.
No Pat Tillman.
Yeah, right.
Besides, we never did any traditional German things like invading Poland or gassing the Jews.
Great make a couple of mistakes and no one forget!
OH- quellen er hervor, der nicht Fehler tut nichts macht!
Well, Dub Dog, I DO like sauerkraut……
What about Saddam Hussein does not scream out “terrorist” to you?
What about “you are either with us or against us” has changed? Roughly 86% of Americans agreed with this post 9/11.If you and 70% of “Americans” can’t stomach the sacrifice, fine. But do not undermine the effort.We can not put a border on the evil ideals of militant islam (terrorism) and expect to win the war.
WSClark,
I watch the pulling down of the statue scene on CNN. You and I have different views on what happened.
For you to use this as an anti-military, anti-American talking point just shows where your loyalty lies.
The only person you care about in this world is you. This is more than quite obvious, it is a given.
Talk about bigoted, you hate your own country and take every opportunity to run it down.
I’ve seen Communists use kinder statements and words than you WSClark.
As I said before, you give me the creeps. In other words, you give me the Heebie Jeebies.
Such sliminess.
“What about Saddam Hussein does not scream out “terrorist” to you?”
The Pentagon report and the 9/11 Commission Report leave no room for doubt – Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. There were no connections between Iraq and al Qaeda. Absolutely, there is NO question.
To repeat again, Saddam was more hated by al Qaeda than was the United States. Al Qaeda openly and actively advocated the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. We just did it for them.
For the last time, Saddam was a SECULAR Muslim, the absolute worst animal for fundamentalist Islam.
Saddam may have hated the USA, but he was far from having any association with 9/11.
Wasn’t that the reason that we went to war?
Given the presumption of “innocent, until proven guilty” and the Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination, there should be no conclusions drawn from a witness asserting his/her constitutional rights. That’s the theory; the posts above reflect the position of the public on the matter.
Thanks Vaughn for the clarification I was intending to point that out. I might add for clarification too.A witness may claim the fifth when it is their cause is at concern but not to protect another from incrimination. Otherwise saying that you may claim the fifth only when to answer the question would mean you are testifying against yourself. But not if by your testimony it would be evidence against another.
“Talk about bigoted, you hate your own country and take every opportunity to run it down.”
That is complete bullshit, Khan. You know it, I know it.
I want the best for my country and that differs from your point of view and that makes me anti-American?
By your definition, 70 percent of the American population is anti-American.
And, Khan, go back to the pulled back photos. What CNN depicted as thousands of Iraqi’s was actually just a 100 or so.
As for your slur – you already admitted that it was a variation on Heeb – you don’t get to take that back to hide your anti-Semitism.
But thanks for playing the game.
By the way, if I am guilty of sedition you TOO can have me arrested. I would be more than happy to give the my address out. The e-mail addy is live. Come and get it.
Chump.
9/11 is not the only nor will it be the last terrorist attack against the United States.I don’t care what kind of sect of the muslism faith Hussein practiced. If you practice Jihad, you are a terrorist.
I never said anything about 1000s of people. I wasn’t taking a head count. I guess though, you want to take CNN to task as well. Prove it.
The Heeb term stays. It means you give me the creeps. That’s all it ever meant.
You are just one big slimeball. You tell Fleettwood he is having sex with his dead daughter and you see nothing wrong with it.
You do more name calling than the entire Blog combined WSClark. You are just a self-absorbed pervert who’s only point in life is to start and continue arguments.
You are truly a hopeless cause.
“If you practice Jihad, you are a terrorist.”
And that is the point, Mr. KIA, Saddam was a secular Muslim, therefore he did not participate in an Islamic Holy War.
Saddam was a bad man – there are lots of bad men running countries. We created Hussein. We supported him when he was fighting the Iranian.
But the fact remains that Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with the war on terrorism.
If we wanted to address the countries that support terrorism, we should have started with Saudi Arabia – 15 of the 19 attackers on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia, as is bin Laden.
I’ve seen Communists use kinder statements and words than you WSClark.
actually as a military officer in Iraq trying to put a positive spin on the protest today pointed out as a real sign of progress. “Under Saddam such a protest could not have been held”.
One of a few stories from his time in the Korean war, he and several G.I. were setting around a camp fire freezing and talking trash about Truman and how they hated being in Korea because of Truman. There were some Korean soldiers close and were in amazement listening to the G.I.s.When asked why they were so amazed, one of the Koreans said “If we were to say half the bad things about our leader. We would be shot where we stand!”
From what I have heard, such comments about the president, the government and this war. Would be a death sentence in a Communist country. It is an American thing to allow such speech and a heavenly blessing at that.
He (Hussein) called for Jihad during Gulf War I and the beginning of the current conflict in Iraq in 4/03.Or should be ignore that because other extremist muslims disliked him?
“You tell Fleettwood he is having sex with his dead daughter and you see nothing wrong with it.”
The comment about Fleet was to illustrate a point – if he can accuse me of a despicable capital crime then I can turn around and do the same.
What is the difference – treason or murder? What is the difference, a horrible crime on a personal level or a horrible crime on a national level?
And by the way, Fleet may have withdrawn his charge of treason, after the fact, but he just today accused me of sedition, a capital crime.
They are both capital crimes.
That has already been explained in detail.
If you folks think that I am guilty, then you owe it to the country to have me arrested. If you do not have me arrested, then STFU.
Actually, you are not doing your duty as a citizen, if you think I am a traitor or seditious, if you DO NOT have me arrested.
And you are truly a spineless blogger, Khan, you ALREADY admitted that the slur you used against me was a variation on Heeb, as in Hebrew. You were very obviously making a Semite reference. You just do not have the guts to admit it now.
That makes you a liar and a coward.
The question is, where you lying then or are you lying now?
Chump change.
writerdog,
Free speech is fine. However when you make it your life’s philosophy to make constant hate speech against America, it makes you wonder why they are even living in America.
Let’s say you’re right. All young people start following the haters. In the future no one will ever join military because it is a horrible organization according to their fathers.
Then who defend their right to say such things?
Who will defend them when foreign countries say they want their land and wealth?
They’ll cut and run.
I never said it was a variation on Hebrew.
You are a liar WSClark. Find where I said that.
If it means Hebrew, then take me to court. I will win hands down and counter sue you.
Go ahead WSClark, find where I said that.
Wait, you can’t because it is another one of your lies.
Mr. KIA, with all due respect, what did Saddam Hussein have to do with the war on terror(ism?)
He may have tried to rally the Islamic world – they ignored him. They did not claim him. He tried to rally Arabs – they ignored him. They did not claim him.
You chose to ignore the fact that Saddam was more hated by al Qaeda than even the USA.
Why did we waste the lives and treasure on Saddam Hussein when the perpetrators of 9/11 were still at large.
Fleettwood apologized many times to you WSClark, yet you throw it back into his face.
You are the one who needs help WSClark. Even when people apologize to you, it does no good.
Like I said before, the only person you care about is you.
You play victimhood and then use it like a hammer.
That is the most despicable thing I’ve ever witnessed.
“If it means Hebrew, then take me to court. I will win hands down and counter sue you.”
Go ahead and sue me, Khan. I dare you. Do it. Go for it.
By the way, you chose to ignore the rest of my points – have me arrested.
Go for it.
Sorry about the chump change comment. I have chump change in my pocket and it will go in the jug with the rest of my spare change.
Wait! Did you think I meant you Khan?
No, I was apologizing to chump change.
I think the difference between our views (and really the entire nations) is those that support understand the nature of the conflict. It is not like any other we have ever faced. It does not have borders. It is a mindset. It is practiced by a large portion of the middle east. Al Qaeda is not the only terrorist organization in the world. Saddam Hussein was not the only terror practicing leader in the world. I will admit because of his past record and actions immediately prior to the Iraq invasion, he was an easy target to take out in an attempt to spread Democracy to the region. Democracy (with one of the founding principles of freedom of religion) is the only hope for the region.
You have to sue me first before I can counter sue. I know what I wrote was nothing and was not a racial or ethnic slur. The burden of proof is upon you.
You cannot even come close. You lost.
Chump change? What a 60ish weak comment.
Be very alone WSClark, be very alone. You are alienating yourself on this blog once again.
“Fleettwood apologized many times to you WSClark”
Fleet Idiot never apologized – he “withdrew” the charge. Then he “charged” me with another capital crime.
Damn, I feel better that I am now charged with sedition and not treason. I guess the noose will still be the same, however.
And by the way, post Fleet’s apology, if you think it is true.
And then explain why I should feel better about being hanged for sedition and not treason.
Chump change.
Liar.
“Be very alone WSClark, be very alone. You are alienating yourself on this blog once again.”
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, false accusations of treason and sedition. Ethnic slurs. False accusations of trolling. Hmmmmmm……..
And I am the one misbehaving?
Whoops! I forgot – you are part of the King and Queen of the Blog, along with your Court Jester, Fleetwood.
My bad.
I never said I would sue you, Khan, What a stupid remark. And unlike you, I have other things to do. If you say that you did not make an anti-Semitic slur, YOU prove it.
And chump change? You are right, I grew up in the Sixties!
Wow! You finally got me on something!
Pat yourself on the back.
Boy.
……………. Sorry, Mr. KIA, but who are we to decide that we need to spread democracy to the Middle East?
Furthermore, I do not recall that being a stated objective given in the rationale for the invasion. I am fairly certain that such a rationale would have been rejected and funding and authorization would have been denied by Congress.
For that matter, if we want to spread democracy, why don’t we start in more dictatorial countries?
Give it up Mr. KIA, WSClark will never say he’s wrong about anything.
His statement of “more dictatorial countries” just show how ridiculously he argues.
How ironic. We invade a third world country to bring “democracy and freedom,” and brand any Americans who disagree with the war as “seditious.” Asstampon, you’re basically just an angry little fascist, aren’t you?
That said…WS, why are you taking their bait? I’ve only been on these boards for a few weeks, but it’s pretty obvious that they have found your buttons and get off on pushing them. Mock them, then ignore them. ‘Tis the best way.
I base my opinion on Democracy in the middle east when the lack of it threatens my country and its interests.
Jeez, when are the Khan police coming to my door? Oh, no!!! The shining star of American Virtue is going to have me arrested!!!!!
…and by the way, Khan, your stupid little gesture of “thanking” single mothers for being a “good Mom” is truly one of the lamest things I have ever seen.
Like a single Mother needs your approval. Approval from a never married, childless man.
Yeah, that carries a lot of weight.
What is next, are you going to congratulate black men on being “good boys?”
Yeah Tom,
Instead of using logical argument, what a wonderful alternative you suggested to WSClark.
Mock and ignore. Just a marvelous suggestion. The problem WSClark has, is he can’t let anything go. He clings to victimhood like it’s a second skin.
I’m holding a civil discussion with WS and you pop in with Asstampon?Nice addition to the subject.
So me thanking a mom for being a good mom is a bad thing.
Thanks WSClark for letting me in on your “Wisdom.”
You will find anything to make an argument won’t.
What a slimey old drunk you are WSClark.
So why Iraq, Mr. KIA? Why not Saudi Arabia – they was even more dictatorial than pre-invasion Saddam could ever be……
Why not Syria or Iran or Lebanon?
Why Iraq?
…. and Tom, this is just sport, but I am working on a free trip to Europe……
I think Norway would be good….
…what do you think, Khan?
Republican,
Earlier today, you tried the same trick with me that you love to play on so many others. You completely mischaracterized comments I made, and did so in a way that I found quite offensive. I’m not going to play that little game with you, or with anyone else here. Either engage in honest dialog, or piss off.
Thanks.
Mr Kia,
Asstampon is my pet name for Fleettwood. His anti-gay diatribes a couple of weeks ago earned him this nickname.
My apologies if you felt it was directed at you.
“So me thanking a mom for being a good mom is a bad thing.”
As I said, like YOUR approval means anything to anyone.
I have been a single parent for 18 years – if you made such a statement to me I would tell you to jam it.
It would be one thing if so said “I have no idea what you have to go through, but nice job in parenting your kid.”
Instead, you try to make yourself an authority figure by “thanking” them for doing what they have done.
You have zero frame of reference to comment on parenting in any manner, Khan.
You have no god damned idea.
I don’t know that the Saudi government ever practiced ethnic cleansing on its own countrymen. Or used chemical and biological weapons on its countrymen. Or signed a cease fire agreement stating in a nutshell to discontinue the production of. Or continually re-directed and/or expelled mandated weapons inspectors from their country.If Hussein did not have WMD’s or ambitions of them why was he acting like it?Death wish? He got it.
Yes Tom I did and I admitted it didn’t I?
I figured you were man enough to handle it, I guessed wrong didn’t I.
What WSClark does is to try and twist my words into what he thinks it means as long as it furthers his victimhood status.
My mistake Tom. I appreciate it.
I have a good idea WSClark, you are what is known as a belligerent drunk, whether or not you are currently sober or not.
Mr. KIA, sorry for the dueling conversations.
From “inside” info, I can assure you that Tom did not direct that comment at you.
Tom, I do not claim to speak for you, but then again. I have been accused of being you so I think we have a connection.
Damn, that was weird.
Back to the issue at hand……
Mr. KIA, we do not always agree but I respect your faith and your love of this country. I just think that we could have done better. War has to be a last resort, and having the UN Inspector leave the country so that we could bomb seems to me to be the wrong approach.
War is Hell it has been said. Given that, I feel that we need to do EVERYTHING possible to avoid it.
Afghanistan was right. Iraq was wrong.
We need to minimize the damage and move on.
For America.
Who is that guy Ian Santiago? He never really says anything.
Republican, do you see how that works? I offended someone unnecessarily, and apologized. He graciously accepted.
That’s how civilized humans communicate.
What I said didn’t involve profane indignation. It was an exchange between grown men who I thought sometimes like to kid each other.
I guess I identified your character inaccurately.
If I offended your sensibilities, I apologize.
WS, I’ve been accused of being a few different people here.
The funny thing is, when I first started posting, I wasn’t using TypeKey. I was just putting my email address in all nice & open. Anyone could have googled it (I’m certain Republican did) and discovered my identity, my place of business, my phone number, and if they were really clever, my home address.
No big deal, really. The local crazies already know who I am and where I live. It was just funny that people here thought I was you.
Thank you WS.The same to you. I hope to return to the blog with more of a spirit of disagreement without being disagreeable.To me in 12-13 years since the first gulfwar diplomacy had run its course.We live in a country that had been attacked a number of times by extremists which finally got the attention of the nation since it reached our own soil.You have an extremist leader in Hussein who is acting like a man with something to hide.He certainly had a lot more in common with Al Qaeda and/or other terrorist organizations than with the United States or civilized world.I don’t see that we had other options.
Accepted.
Mr. KIA, Saddam apparently wanted his own people to think that he had WMD. He wanted his own people, for obvious reasons, to think that he was much more powerful than he really was.
I will not argue that Saddam was a bad man, but the USA cannot afford to take out every bad man on the planet. Furthermore, we open ourselves to huge issues if take it upon our selves to decide who is bad and who is not.
To me, Iraq was a huge mistake – the country is now a mess and there is no end in sight. What has happened in Iraq should have been predicted by the Bush Administration and planning should have reflected that.
We should have known that Iraq would descend into chaos in the absence of a “strong” central government. That government was Saddam, at the time, and now we are looking for someone to replace him
You’re right about Saddam operating by fear. This is what the insurgency wants to do as well and will if it is victorious.I don’t disagree with you on Saudi Arabia either.Personally I don’t want this country to become another Israel or Ireland where suicide bomb attacks (or God forbid worse) are common place.
I think that some people underestimate the resolve of the American people, Mr. KIA. Those people are Americans.
The terrorists got away with one on 9/11. It was a big one, that is true, but they got away with it.
I hear/read people make statements about Sharia Law being implemented in the US, Muslims taking over, etc, etc.
The American people are much tougher than that.
On this blog, I have been accused of being anti-American, a coward, a traitor and seditious. I can assure you that, if necessary, I would fight to the death to protect my country.
And so would 300 million other Americans.
We cannot be defeat from the outside. We can only lose from the inside.
And that starts with good American citizens being charged with treason and sedition by fellow Americans.
What could possibly be worst than accusing your fellow Americans of being traitors to their own country. At that point, you have effectively divided the country in half and reduced our defenses by the same margin.
If someone accuses me of treason, why would I fight to protect him?
“. . .we know that they are willing to use nonpartisan Departments of the Federal Government. . .”
Since when did government agencies become non-partisan?
Under the Hatch Act of 1939, civil servants are not allowed to engage in political activities while performing their duties.
“Since when did government agencies become non-partisan?”
Ah, they are SUPPOSED to be nonpartisan…….
When President Obama or President Clinton II takes office, do you want all Federal agencies to be PARTISAN?
I thought not.
Well, I just checked my alternate e-mail box and – guess what – no e-mails from Khan or Fleet asking for my address so they they could have me arrested for sedition.
They are obviously letting their country down. They claim to KNOW that I am seditious and a traitor, yet they have failed to do anything about it. They obviously have no regard for their fellow citizens if they are turning a blind eye to a traitor in their midst.
Damn, that, in it’s self, has to be a crime.
They are going to just let me get away.
WS,
I have a nice pair of handcuffs.
::evil grin::
Sorry Tom, I wasn’t quite ready for that one……
Now I have to clean beer off my monitor screen.
Geeeee Haaaaawwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my goodness…
WS Clark is going to be crying about this for the next year still!
WE Editors,
Can we get a special topic dedicated to the calling of WS Clark a traitor and wanting him charged with sedition?
This way he has his own thread to cry in.
If I am so guilty, why are you right wingnuts shirking your duty and NOT turning me in. If you folks are to be believed, I should be in Gitmo by now.
So Nathan, the e-mail addy is live. With your military background, you should be able to have me arrested before the night is out.
Send me an e-mail and I will give you my home address.
If you fail to have me arrested, charged and executed, you are letting your country down.
Are you going to let a traitor run loose?
If you are not going to have me arrested, then shut the fuc up, asshole.
By the way, Nathan, you would be guilty of aiding and abetting if you were to knowingly allow a traitor to continue unchallenged.
You better do something or YOU may go to jail.
Of course, if you are just full of shit about me, you might just want to STFU.
Shit or get off the pot, Nathan – have me arrested or shut up.
It is one or the other.
When have I said anything lately about you being a traitor or sedition?
I am wondering when you are going to stop wailing like a banshee!
“Can we get a special topic dedicated to the calling of WS Clark a traitor and wanting him charged with sedition?”
Fork yourself, Nathan……
Have the courage to ACTUALLY have me charged with sedition or treason or STFU.
Have you no balls, little boy?
WS Clark,
It is called context. Something you still seem to have missed in life.
“This way he has his own thread to cry in.”
Wah, Wah, Wah, Wah.
They should make a crying thread here just for you!
“It is called context”
So falsely accusing a fellow American citizen is a matter of “context?”
Context? Either I am guilty of sedition and treason or I am innocent.
No you obviously don’t have the balls to back up your contention, so maybe you can get your Daddy to charge me.
Wait, your Daddy has no balls either.
Maybe you get get your Mama to have be charged?
If you do not have me charged, you are guilty of slander.
Hmmmmmmmmmm……………
Slander charges against a Marine?
That might get you kicked out of the service, Nathan.
Hmmmmmmmmmm……………
Are you guilty of slander Nathan or will you have me arrested?
Do you hear something?
On this blog, I have been accused of being anti-American, a coward, a traitor and seditious. I can assure you that, if necessary, I would fight to the death to protect my country.
And so would 300 million other Americans.
*****
That’s a very good point, WSC.
After 9-11, I was going to sign up for the National Guard. My wife talked me out of it.
And am I ever glad she did! I was perfectly willing to fight the terrorists who attacked us, but I’m not willing to get shipped off to terrorize a bunch of Iraqis who didn’t have anything to do with it.
The idea that liberals like me would stand by and allow our country to get over-run by religious fanatics is ludicrous.
The idea that we hate our troops and want them to die is a heinous and despicable lie.
And yet that’s what Rush O’Hannity are saying every day on their “bash the liberal straw-man” shows. Hate the liberals with a vicious gut-level hate. Don’t stop to think about it. They’re the traitors.
Never in my wildest dreams did I ever expect to see the right-wing turn into the froth-at-the-mouth witch-burners once more like they did during the McCarthy era and again during Vietnam.
But here we go again . . .
So right, Capn’, so right……
Sad, isn’t it?