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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted April 26, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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70 Comments
Events leading up to Iraq War and description of the Liberation of Iraq into Public Law
I don’t even think our resident lawyers can argue against this that Congress passed a Law twice to help Iraq achieve Democracy.
Bob will just use one of drunken stupid phrases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraqtext describing the 1998 act signed by President Clinton
“The United States Congress also passed the “Iraq Liberation Act” in October 1998 after Iraq hadterminated its cooperation with the U.N. in August. The act provided $97 million for Iraqi”democratic opposition organizations” in order to”establish a program to support a transition to democracy in Iraq.” (Public Law 105-338)
2002Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Reported in House)
“Whereas the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Public Law 105-338) expressed the sense of Congress that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove from power the current Iraqi regime and promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime”Forces against Iraq.Sponsor: Rep Hastert, J. Dennis [IL-14]
(introduced 10/2/2002) Cosponsors (136)Related Bills: H.RES.574, H.J.RES.110, S.J.RES.45,
S.J.RES.46Latest Major Action: Became Public Law No: 107-243
2004 State of The Union Address supporting Democracy for Iraqhttp://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/01/20040120-7.html
Notice how both bills passed Congress for the purposes of:
“…remove from power the current Iraqi regime and promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.”
This is Public Law, it is referenced and on the books.
Part of the goals was to help Iraq achieve a democratic government.
The Liberal naysayers can cry all they want, but it is written, passed and approved by both the House and Senate of the United States that we will help Iraq achieve a Democratic government.
Republican,
And what Right Wing apologists always deliberately ignore is that the 1998 Act expressly forbids the U.S. from intervening militarily in the service of helping Iraq to “achieve a Democratic government.”
“SEC. 8. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.
Nothing in this Act shall be construed to authorize or otherwise speak to the use of United States Armed Forces (except as provided in section 4(a)(2)) in carrying out this Act.”
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c105:H.R.4655.ENR:
So if your claim is that the goal of the laws was to “remove from power the Iraqi regime,” that’s a long, long way from authorizing or even countenancing the direct use of American military power.
So what ARE you claiming, Republican?
So now that the Iraqis have a democracy(they did vote all republicans will quickly remind everyone of that) then our job is done. Its time to go! According to the laws sighted by Republican once the regime is removed and a democratic government is formed then our responsibility is over.
Mike,
Ha ha ha! Excellent way to be a stickler for the rules and all.
And to second (third?) that, a March 23rd Pew Center survey found that when asked if Congress was doing “too much” “about right” or “not enough” in “challenging George Bush’s policies in Iraq,” 23 percent said “too much.”
30 and 40 said “about right” or “not enough” respectively.
Since you care about DEMOCRACY so much in Iraq, RepubliCON, perhaps you might try observing democracy right here in the USA. The vast majority want out of Iraq ASAP.
JM calling Bob drunken?
Hehehehehheehhhehehe. Hahahahahha.Hohohohohohohohohohohoho!
And out in Washington, DC, it’s snowing–not snowflakes, but subpeonas.
Looks like Condi “Lies for a Living” Rice is going to have to testify under oath on why she made sh*t up to drive the country to war.
Monica Goodling, the Justice Dept girl Friday who pled the 5th rather than “incriminate herself,” has been granted immunity if she tells where the bodies are buried.
KKKarl Rove and Co. are refusing to hand over e-mails that belong to the American people, proving that they do indeed have something to hide.
The leading Repuke candidate for President in ‘08 is thrice-married Yankee Rudy Giulani–talk about firing up the Southern Baptist base. NOT.
It’s a good time to be a liberal in America . . .
Capn,
It looks like our favorite Secretary of State is going to attempt to avoid the subpoena. She’s basically saying that she has already answered the questions and was hinting that much might be covered under executive privilege…It’s amazing to me that this government seems to think that it can’t be held to account for ANYTHING! Impeach the lot of them….wipe the slate clean and try again.
It is kind of sad that the only way the liberals can celebrate victory is while they are declaring defeat for our military.
Defeat for a failed policy of our president and the republican party who supported it, is not defeat for our military.
Political Mom,
That is not what your Senate Leader is saying.
Once again here we have the liberal double speak.
They sit here and talk about a failed policy, yet the only solution they offer is defeat.
What exactly is the Democrats plan for victory if it is only a failed policy of the current administration?
You guys keep talking about how it is only a failed policy or strategy yet the only thing you offer is defeat.
Why must all right wingers refer to changing anything outside of the status quo as defeatist? When a team is being defeated then its the responsiblity of the coach to change the strategy. And when the team is being soundly beaten night after night then it is the coaches job to make drastic changes to shake things up. But not our “Coach in Chief”, he believes so long as he believes we are winning then nothing should change. Sounds like insanity to me. Keep doing things the same way and expect a different result
I put a pizza in the oven last night for dinner, and when the bell went off I opened the door and it wasn’t a steak. Whats up with that? I believed it would change into a steak. Thats the same logic this administration uses.
Declaring the war is lost is not a slight to the military. There is no longer a military solution for this conflict (aside from maybe a huge troop increase and just killing everybody). That is not the fault of the military, it is the fault of their mostly civilian war planners that apparently didn’t bother to account for the problems of the post-invasion occupation.
“There is no longer a military solution for this conflict”
Hell didnt even PETRAUS say that? I know Gates did.
But I guess the armchair generals here know more about the conflict then the generals.
Say, isnt that what they are always using to whine about the democrats?
We as a nation have lost the war in Iraq, it’s not a defeat for our soldiers. They were in an impossible position to begin with and at the mercy of policy.
Do you not see the difference?
The second law passed in 2002 referencing the first law were used in conjuction to authorization invasion in to Iraq and the building of a Democracy.
Whine all you want Democrats, but it was put into law and largely in part with Bipartisan support.
So go ahead and whine libs…
Democrats,Hypocrisy is thy name…
Mike,
I guess you are ignoring the surge plan?
Last I checked we are only barely even starting with a different strategy.
Yet the Senate leader is already declaring our defeat.
And that surge plan is going to work how when the congress from Iraq is threatening a major overthrow of Maliki in the next few weeks?
Simple fact is the only reason for the “surge” was the GOP lost control of the House and Senate. You call the “surge” a change in strategy? I call it more of the same. This change in strategy has impacted the situation how exactly? More troops to build walls? 20k soldiers is not enough and we both know it.
Mike,
I just proved your first statement wrong.
Now you are saying it is not going to do anything?
It isn’t even in full effect yet or had barely 2 months to begin.
Typical liberal you are though in not accepting anything but defeat.
You are so filled with defeat you refuse to see anything other than defeat.
So tell me, besides defeat, what is it that you liberals are offering?
Where is your strategy?
Where is your plan for victory?
And on a different subject (eds, could these guys have an “all war all the time” thread?)
Limbaugh Plays “Barack The Magic Negro” on His Show
“This is a head-shaker. Imus gets canned for calling some college women basketball players “nappy-headed hos” and yet Rush Limbaugh plays “Barack The Magic Negro” on his show and he is still on the air?”
How is that even possible?
To hear the song yourself, watch video right …
“It is a parody by Paul Shanklin impersonating Al Sharpton and based on the Peter, Paul, and Mary hit song “Puff, the Magic Dragon”. I am really at a loss for words. I heard it for the first time yesterday on the radio and was sickened.”
Again, how is this man on the air?
Video Link here:
http://www.alternet.org/story/50998/
NathanVery nice. How you go to the finger pointing and name calling when someone disagrees with your parties failures. Last time I checked I did not have a seat in Congress. So my strategy does not matter. It would be a change of strategy to lets say pull back(not pull out) to Kuwait and assist the Iraqi government from there. Our mere presence provokes the extremeists and gives them fuel for their fire.
There is still time for Republicans to save face with this(believe it or not). If they would only pull their heads out of their a**es. A strategy like I am suggesting would at least give the American people an illusion of change. But if you guys stick it out with GW then you get what you have coming. 8 years of Democratic leadership. And we all know you don’t want that.
http://www.rushlimbaughonline.com/advertisers.htm
which lists the following advertisers:
AutoZone (901) 495-6500Bose Wave Radio 508-766-7781Mission Pharmacal(makers of Citracal) (800) 531-3333General Steel Metal Buildings 1-888-98-STEELHotwire Discount Travel 415-343-8444Lending Tree (704) 541-5351Life Quotes 1-800-670-5433Select Comfort 763-551-7460Mission Pharmacal(makers of Thera-gesic) (800) 531-3333Overstock.com (801) 947-3100
Tired of oxyrush? Hit him where it hurts.
Oh, but don’t you know that the Chiefs of Staff call Nathan every couple of days for his input?
Hmmm, maybe that’s the probl….
HA! That was pretty darn good political satire. A little edgy. Of course liberals don’t like it. It lampoons Al Sharpton and touches on the subject of… race. AHHH! Everybody run!
On Charlie Rose the other night Bush stated that we should be seeing the successful results of the surge (there is no Plan B he said) by summer. In that case, I would think that the ARI, even stronger than it is now, should be able to take over against the decimated dead-enders.
At least according to Bush’s words …
As a black man I am offended. The only reason one would run from this is that they know it is wrong. Totally disgusting! Running would be a smart thing to do if anyone ever had the courage to say that about me.
How are we defeated now? Bush declared combat operations were over a couple of years ago and the whole “mission accomplished” espisode
Republican,
Just as I thought: no point, beyond nyah nyah nyah. Tiresome. But not unexpected.
As for Condi, here’s a GREAT link for y’all, from Dependable Renegade. Scroll down for the pic:
http://www.dependablerenegade.com/dependable_renegade/2007/04/accept_this_sub.html
Nathan,
So, we ought to “Give Surge a Chance” in order to attain some “victory” that allows you to salvage your masculinity? Grow up, Nathan.
Here’s an Iraqi woman named Riverbend: I’m including much of her post because, frankly, it shows that however much time you spent in Iraq, you haven’t a clue about what’s taking place there, or how Iraqis feel about our invasion, occupation, and destruction of their country.
http://www.riverbendblog.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_riverbendblog_archive.html
“I always hear the Iraqi pro-war crowd interviewed on television from foreign capitals (they can only appear on television from the safety of foreign capitals because I defy anyone to be publicly pro-war in Iraq). They refuse to believe that their religiously inclined, sectarian political parties fueled this whole Sunni/Shia conflict. They refuse to acknowledge that this situation is a direct result of the war and occupation. They go on and on about Iraq’s history and how Sunnis and Shia were always in conflict and I hate that. I hate that a handful of expats who haven’t been to the country in decades pretend to know more about it than people actually living there.
I remember Baghdad before the war- one could live anywhere. We didn’t know what our neighbors were- we didn’t care. No one asked about religion or sect. No one bothered with what was considered a trivial topic: are you Sunni or Shia? You only asked something like that if you were uncouth and backward. Our lives revolve around it now. Our existence depends on hiding it or highlighting it- depending on the group of masked men who stop you or raid your home in the middle of the night.
On a personal note, we’ve finally decided to leave. I guess I’ve known we would be leaving for a while now. We discussed it as a family dozens of times. At first, someone would suggest it tentatively because, it was just a preposterous idea- leaving ones home and extended family- leaving ones country- and to what? To where?
Since last summer, we had been discussing it more and more. It was only a matter of time before what began as a suggestion- a last case scenario- soon took on solidity and developed into a plan. For the last couple of months, it has only been a matter of logistics. Plane or car? Jordan or Syria? Will we all leave together as a family? Or will it be only my brother and I at first?
After Jordan or Syria- where then? Obviously, either of those countries is going to be a transit to something else. They are both overflowing with Iraqi refugees, and every single Iraqi living in either country is complaining of the fact that work is difficult to come by, and getting a residency is even more difficult. There is also the little problem of being turned back at the border. Thousands of Iraqis aren’t being let into Syria or Jordan- and there are no definite criteria for entry, the decision is based on the whim of the border patrol guard checking your passport.
An airplane isn’t necessarily safer, as the trip to Baghdad International Airport is in itself risky and travelers are just as likely to be refused permission to enter the country (Syria and Jordan) if they arrive by airplane. And if you’re wondering why Syria or Jordan, because they are the only two countries that will let Iraqis in without a visa. Following up visa issues with the few functioning embassies or consulates in Baghdad is next to impossible.
So we’ve been busy. Busy trying to decide what part of our lives to leave behind. Which memories are dispensable? We, like many Iraqis, are not the classic refugees- the ones with only the clothes on their backs and no choice. We are choosing to leave because the other option is simply a continuation of what has been one long nightmare- stay and wait and try to survive.
On the one hand, I know that leaving the country and starting a new life somewhere else- as yet unknown- is such a huge thing that it should dwarf every trivial concern. The funny thing is that it’s the trivial that seems to occupy our lives. We discuss whether to take photo albums or leave them behind. Can I bring along a stuffed animal I’ve had since the age of four? Is there room for E.’s guitar? What clothes do we take? Summer clothes? The winter clothes too? What about my books? What about the CDs, the baby pictures?
The problem is that we don’t even know if we’ll ever see this stuff again. We don’t know if whatever we leave, including the house, will be available when and if we come back. There are moments when the injustice of having to leave your country, simply because an imbecile got it into his head to invade it, is overwhelming. It is unfair that in order to survive and live normally, we have to leave our home and what remains of family and friends… And to what?
It’s difficult to decide which is more frightening- car bombs and militias, or having to leave everything you know and love, to some unspecified place for a future where nothing is certain.”
I heard yesterday that Alabama is close to approving a state apology for slavery. Virginia, North Carolina, and one other southern state I am not recalling now have passed similar apology legislation this year.
I am curious, do any conservatives think it is wrong to apologize for slavery, and if so, why? And if you could refrain from saying black racism is the same as white racism, that might lend a slight bit of credence to your answer.
Huh Steven. They are silent on rush calling him “Barak the Magic Negro” and outie even defends it.
I think that is all that needs to be said for the conservatives here.
CF2K – good blog from an Iraqi citizen. I wonder if she loves the US like they claim?
Hey Rage, I really miss you if you are reading here. A cartoon from your birthday mate Tom Tomorrow.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×759510
http://www.vpc.org/studies/cccrimst.htm
Criminals do apply for concealed carry licenses. Section I of the study reveals that hundreds of criminals—convicted of crimes ranging from firearm violations to kidnapping and aggravated rape—have applied for concealed carry licenses in Florida.
Criminals do receive concealed carry licenses. Section II of the study details both the legal and illegitimate routes convicted criminals exploit to receive concealed carry licenses in Florida.
Concealed carry license holders do commit crimes. Section III of the study details cases of concealed carry license holders in Florida who have had their licenses revoked or suspended for various crimes—including firearm and drug violations.
As of July 1995 a total of 469 individuals have been identified as having committed a wide variety of crimes—including assault with intent to murder, kidnapping/attempted kidnapping, and shooting with intent to wound—either before obtaining the Florida concealed carry license or after licensure
apologize, yes its the right thing to do.
reparations no
CF2K,
Do you relize the sad irony of what you posted?
You are using a letter from someone to show how bad things are, yet you want us to leave knowing they are more likely than not, going to be even worse!
You can’t have it both ways.
You can’t on one hand say that you care about the people and the conditions in Iraq and on the other demand our withdrawl to leave them even worse.
Steven: Apologies are fine. It is a sign of maturity to be able to do so, even if you are not in any way responsible. Ask my wife. :)
http://www.aolelectionsblog.com/2007/03/19/why-is-a-democrat-questioning-obamas-race/
Here is an article regarding the origin of the “Barrack the Magic Negro” phrase. Shanklin’s parody makes repeated reference to the L.A. Times article that started it.
Nathan,
Whether we stay or go, folks in Iraq are going to die. Period.
The only thing that can stop the killing is a political solution. Military force is useless to do this.
The U.S. presence in Iraq hinders the parties from dealing with each other, since each tries to play the Americans for their own interests. So long as we’re there, the game is to get us on their side to use against the other. Only if we’re out of the picture will they deal with each other. And only if they do this will the killing stop.
Iraq has no chance of resolving its internal crises so long as the U.S. has a standing army in the country. Period. The work can’t begin until we leave.
And I might add, it’s disingenuous of you to insist that other regional neighbors such as Syria and Iran be excluded from discussions or agreements involving Iraq’s security, if, as you claim, your concern lies with preventing the continuation of the sectarian death spiral in Iraq.
.morg:
The “study” is from the “Violence Policy Center.” What do you think their position is on CC and gun control?
Need I say more?
And BTW, a cartoon you might like – it illustrates the VPC’s position perfectly.
http://images.mysanantonio.com/opinion/cartoons/nacho/large/2007_04_22_nacho.jpg
Enjoy.
“You can’t have it both ways.”
She makes it clear that conditions were infinitely better BEFORE we came than they are now. So how can you claim that our presence is improving things?
When should we see the beneficial effects of the ’surge’? Bush told me by summer …
Apologize? sure..why not..but, another question is why? Did Rome ever apologize to Carthage? Did the Goths ever apologize to Rome? Not only were slaves taken in both instances, but entire empires were destroyed.
Are any of the slave owners or slaves alive to be apologized to?
Seems like an empty, feel good gesture that doesn’t change a thing.
RepubliCON writes–”So go ahead and whine libs…”
Hey, we’re not whining; we’re CROWING. It’s not despair, it’s glee.
Bush “pre-emptive war” (i.e., war to stop a war) was a failure from it’s inception.
The only question now is how to staunch the bloodshed as expediently as possible.
Maybe just the validation that an apology would give to the decendants of slaves would be a good thing.
its = possessive pronoun
it’s = contraction
Some day, this blog will have an edit feature . . .
Stay the course!
I think Hawkeye, probably without meaning to, hit upon the general resistence that the right has to making apologies for slavery, i.e., reparations. An apology is considered the first step in setting the stage for reparations.
Businesses, financial businesses especially, keep good records. There is a bank in Chicago that has extensive records of its purchases of slaves. This bank would be the perfect target for reparation payments. They also have deep pockets and would be worth pursuing.
Would Germany be as strong a country as it is today, if after WWII they tried to pretend that the holocaust never happened? I am doubting it.
I believe owning up to your mistakes, doing what you can to make your wrong right, is liberating, rather than limiting. But, to be truthful, I don’t know many conservatives who value liberty very much – to wit, the powers granted the GWB executive branch.
Some quotes from Darth Cheney:
THE CHENEY DOCTRINE: UNINFORMED AND MISLEADING
“I think we may well have some kind of presence there over a period of time,” Cheney said. “The level of activity that we see today from a military standpoint, I think, will clearly decline. I think they’re in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency.”– May 30, 2005, Larry King Live
“We will succeed in Iraq, just like we did in Afghanistan. We will stand up a new government under an Iraqi-drafted constitution. We will defeat that insurgency, and, in fact, it will be an enormous success story.”– June 25, 2005, CNN Interview
“My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators.”– March 16, 2003
“There’s overwhelming evidence there was a connection between al Qaeda and the Iraqi government. I am very confident that there was an established relationship there.”– January 22, 2004
“We believe Saddam has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons.”– March 16, 2003
“Saddam is actively pursuing nuclear weapons at this time.”- March 24, 2002
“Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us.”– August 26, 2002
“When you think about what we’ve accomplished in terms of taking Afghanistan—we had a total of 30 killed in action in Afghanistan—taking down the Taliban and destroying the capacity of al-Qaeda to use Afghanistan as a base to attack the United States, launching an attack into Iraq, destroying the Iraqi armed forces, taking down the government of Iraq, getting rid of Saddam Hussein, capturing 42 out of the 55 top leaders, and beginning what I think has been fairly significant success in terms of putting Iraq back together again, the price that we’ve had to pay is not out of line, and certainly wouldn’t lead me to suggest or think that the strategy is flawed or needs to be changed.”– September 14, 2003
I am all in favor of reparations. Payable on demand to any former slave that worked without being paid–even tho there was no minimum wage requirement in the late 1800’s.
As soon as a former slave steps up to collect, I would heartily endorse reparations made to the person that suffered by being a slave.
Here’s a study that explains a whole lot more than the republicans wanted explained;In 1969, Berkeley professors Jack and Jeanne Block embarked on a study of childhood personality, asking nursery school teachers to rate children’s temperaments. They weren’t even thinking about political orientation.”Twenty years later, they decided to compare the subjects’ childhood personalities with their political preferences as adults. They found arresting patterns. As kids, liberals had developed close relationships with peers and were rated by their teachers as self-reliant, energetic, impulsive, and resilient. People who were conservative at age 23 had been described by their teachers as easily victimized, easily offended, indecisive, fearful, rigid, inhibited, and vulnerable at age 3. The reason for the difference, the Blocks hypothesized, was that insecure kids most needed the reassurance of tradition and authority, and they found it in conservative politics.”- Nicole Belle: The Ideological Animal -
“Stay the course!
Posted by: Joe Williams | April 26, 2007 at 01:20 PM ”
A million lemmings can’t be wrong!
Thats mighty white of you Raptor.
BREAKING NEWS: The government has been spying on anti war groups and individuals
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070426/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/pentagon_terror_database
GMC,Don’t get me wrong I have no problem with guns.I just think the whole cc issue is stupid.Why conceal it? Wear it loud and proud.Just another superfical government agency that collects your hard earned cash.
I mean if someone wants a gun….
http://www.amazon.com/Expedient-Homemade-Firearms-9mm-Submachine/dp/0873649834
“One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.That is our bottom line.”
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998-Truth!
This was a quote from President Clinton during a presentation at the Pentagon defending a decision to conduct military strikes against Iraq.
“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear.We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998-Truth!
Bill Clinton went to the Pentagon on this occasion to be briefed by top military officials about Iraq and weapons of mass destruction.His remarks followed that briefing.
“Iraq is a long way from USA but, what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face.”
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998-Truth!
This is a quote from Albright during an appearance at Ohio State University by Albright, who was Secretary of State for Bill Clinton.”He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.”
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998-Truth!
This was at the same Ohio State University appearance as Madeline Albright.
“We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S.Constitution and Laws, to take necessary actions, (including, if appropriate,air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destructionprograms.”
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others
Oct. 9, 1998-Truth!
According to the U.S. Senate website, the text of this letter was signed by several Senators, both Democrat and Republican, including Senator John McCain and Joseph Lieberman.
“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998-Truth!
The text of this statement by Nancy Pelosi is posted on her congressional website.
“Hussein has .. chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.”
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999-Truth!
This was from an appearance Albright made in Chicago.She was addressing the embargo of Iraq that was in effect at the time and criticism that it may have prevented needed medical supplies from getting into the country.
Albright said, “There has never been an embargo against food and medicine. It’s just that Hussein has just not chosen to spend his money on that. Instead, he has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction, and palaces for his cronies.”
And those steps taken in the 90s effectively kept Saddam bottled up. Ever since he lost his primary arms supplier after his war against Iran (where he blew his wad of these) he has been toothless.
The UN Inspectors were allowed back into Iraq and determined that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction. The inspectors left Iraq on the eve of the invasion. Had they been allowed to continue their work for another month or so, they would have come to the same conclusion that Bush was forced to admit after the invasion, that is, Saddam did not have any WMD.
This may be OT but I do have a complaint about something.
While scrolling through the classified ads – Pets – what is it about all these people that breed all these strange dogs together? Puggles? Goldendoodles? Then they sell these Puggles and Goldendoodles for more than the actual breed would sell for IF it were purebred! You can’t even register these puppies and with some of the heredity problems that are breed specific, what do you have then? Golden Retreivers have hip problems and other problems like their eyes. Then you breed them to a Poodle who is yappy and curly coated? So you get a Goldendoodle? who doesn’t know what it is. These people sell them for $350 and up? I just don’t understand this.
Instead of breeding these unthinkable mixtures, improve the breed you started with and quit making a profit on a puppy that you can’t even register or show!
Many breeds have breed – specific issues and over breeding brings these problems out even more. The cross-breed stuff is trying to make the best of each breed in a new pup. Contrary to popular opinion, the best traits are not always the traits that show up in a new litter. For example, poodles do not shed, but a Cockapoo proably will.
I heard a very sad statement this morning from some Congressman. I guess he must have been Republican and a great Bush follower. Anyway, he made the statement about pulling out of Vietnam and that was wrong? Oh come on now. Iraq is just like Vietnam, it’s just 35 years later (or there abouts). What did we accomplish in Vietnam? Not a damn thing except get a lot of our kids killed. Or they would come home basket cases from what they saw. It was a police action, not a war. Iraq is the same damn thing. It is a police action but, we are still losing our kids because of the suicide bombers and nuts that live over there.
To me, let them handle it. Let them blow themselves up. Clean up the gene pool! Bring our kids home where they can get back to a somewhat normal life! No one is going to look down on the U.S. if we pull out. Now one is going to say we admitted defeat! Hell, we didn’t even have backers for this except for England and Australia? Those people have been fighting amongst themselves for too many centuries to count. It is always based on religion it is always based on who has what land and what does that land have on it and what can we gain by taking that land? Let’s leave them alone and let them figure it out. If they wish to blow themselves up, let them. I’m sorry, I was around during Vietnam and I think it was the right thing to do by pulling out.
I heard a very sad statement this morning from some Congressman. I guess he must have been Republican and a great Bush follower. Anyway, he made the statement about pulling out of Vietnam and that was wrong? Oh come on now. Iraq is just like Vietnam, it’s just 35 years later (or there abouts). What did we accomplish in Vietnam? Not a damn thing except get a lot of our kids killed. Or they would come home basket cases from what they saw. It was a police action, not a war. Iraq is the same damn thing. It is a police action but, we are still losing our kids because of the suicide bombers and nuts that live over there.
To me, let them handle it. Let them blow themselves up. Clean up the gene pool! Bring our kids home where they can get back to a somewhat normal life! No one is going to look down on the U.S. if we pull out. Now one is going to say we admitted defeat! Hell, we didn’t even have backers for this except for England and Australia? Those people have been fighting amongst themselves for too many centuries to count. It is always based on religion it is always based on who has what land and what does that land have on it and what can we gain by taking that land? Let’s leave them alone and let them figure it out. If they wish to blow themselves up, let them. I’m sorry, I was around during Vietnam and I think it was the right thing to do by pulling out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0wbpKCdkkQ
SURRENDER ACCOMPLISHED!!!
The only question now is how to staunch the bloodshed as expediently as possible.
Posted by: CapnAmerica
See Cappy, that is what the repub posters on this blog want to know?The dems state that the citizens of the U.S. want us out Iraq. Okay, say that happens Oct. 1, then what???
How many must die due to ethnic cleansing?1 million?2 million?
We give money to Jordan and Syria to get them to go in?
All of a sudden, France and Spain and the EU will want to get involved?
We ask San Fran Nan to go talk to someone?
And if we have another 911 attack? Who does Nan go talk to then?What does she say or ask?
Will the DNC cover the cost of burkas for my wife and mother in law?
After today, I think I hear Quaddafi, firing up his Nuke plant possibilities. He’s just mad it took the dems so long to yell surrender that it cost him 2-3 years of construction time.
I guess the quandry for the radical islamist now is, who to attack?
We want to bomb California because that is where so much of what we are against comes from, BUT Hollywood and all the liberals there are our biggest allies. What to do, what to do?
Imagine Amadinijai having to decide. Rosie O’ Donnel needs killed simply because she is a lesbian, BUT she is one of my biggest supporters. What to do, what to do?
This is your last chance to tell Governor Sebelius to veto Alexa’s law. Here are the reasons:
HB 2062, the Unborn Victims of Violence Act (UVVA), has been approved the by the Kansas House of Representatives. It is now on its way to Governor Kathleen Sebelius’ desk for final approval. But, you have one last chance to help defeat this anti-woman bill.
I strongly urge you to contact Governor Sebelius and encourage her to VETO HB 2062. She can reached at her office, 785-296-3232 or you can call toll free at 1-877-579-6757. You can also send her a message http://www.governor.ks.gov/comments/comment.htm.HB 2062 is a bad bill for many reasons. Here are a few things you can tell the Governor:The Kansas legislature has a responsibility to punish those whose violent actions interfere with a woman’s fundamental right to have a child. Existing Motherhood Protection laws (K.S.A. 21-3440 and K.S.A. 21-3441) recognize the particularly heinous nature of crimes against pregnant women by providing separate criminal charges for those who interrupt a pregnancy in the commission of a crime. HB 2062 actually strikes Motherhood Protection Laws.HB 2062 will have unintended consequences for pregnant women. In South Carolina, a similar law has been used approximately 3 times against actual perpetrators since its inception in 1984. It has been used over 70 times, however, to prosecute women who suffered stillbirths. A similar trend has appeared in other states as well, even though the laws specifically exempt pregnant women just as HB 2062 does.HB 2062 does nothing to address violence against pregnant women, but functions solely by defining fetuses as people in the Kansas criminal code. Motherhood Protection Laws, on the other hand, keep the focus where it should be – on the victims of these horrible crimes.UVVA is intentionally vague and overbroad. Motherhood Protection Laws have a specific goal: to punish those who intentionally harm pregnant women. By repealing these acts, it would ignore the harm that is directly done to a pregnant woman and her right to have a baby.HB 2062 is controversial because for the first time ever, it would define fetuses, from the moment of conception, as full people in Kansas law.Please ask the Governor to VETO HB 2062. Ask her NOT to repeal existing Motherhood Protection Laws K.S.A. 21-3440 and K.S.A. 21-3441.Motherhood Protection Laws address violence against pregnant women without dragging abortion into the debate.—–
And I would urge you to do the opposite of what P Mom advocates. Support Alexa’s law.
Why let violent criminals get away with killing a human life; born or unborn?
Constitutional Amendment
When a President declares war with Congressional approval immediatley:
1. Draft is started.Exemptions: Damn near none.. ROTC cadets, students within 1 year of graduation from college(don’t finish in a year — grab a gun,top 25% by GPA in college, top 30% in critical needs programs, drop your gpa by 25% – go see a military recruiter of your choiceConscientious objector?, (well with in your right.) but you serve in some support function (think rosey the riveter)but no student loans, mentally and physical unable, age restrictions determined by military, some exemptions for police, firemen.
2. All wages, salaries and prices are frozen — ALL!!!
3. Active Duty military get an immediate 20% pay raise.
4. Military involved in combat operations get an additional 2k a month.
5. Immediate rationing of gas and any other materials needed for the war effort ….
one more
Leave the country to avoid the draft? — you don’t come back ever — no visits — you won’t stay and support your country — you’re not needed …….
I agree ken, but also add in NO contractors unless serious dire need exists.
I posted the same on another thread — capn poindexter pointed out that it would be giving a lot more exemptions to rich white folks in college — he makes a good point — was not my intention — my response to him — applies here:
sorry cap’n p
you make a good point —
not a liberal — life long independent retired military,
intention is to make sure eveyone shares the sacrifice of any war effort, was spur of the moment brainstorming on the notion — didn’t mean to leave out or limit any groups (rich, smart, white people), when I was in college long ago, never saw the distinction on campus, didn’t hang with the frat boys and girls etc …. was in an AF program for enlisted folks …. most of my the people I knew were in the same postion as me —
In a war the entire nation needs to be engaged in the effort — not just the poor and middle class of the nation that is fighting there now —
Gene
Some contractors are needed – but certainly not at the level of abuse it has become in Iraq …
I remember in VN we contracted with the local population for basic services — laundry ,, cleaning —
but I / we get your point thanks
Gene Ratsass–
Thanks for the incoherant melt-down, dude.
Stick with that message. It worked so well for you in the midterm elections.
You and people like you don’t matter. You’re the Bush dead enders in your last throes.
The average American who hasn’t been anthesized by drug-addicted hate radio can read you and they can read me and make up their own mind.
You cite Rosie O’Donnal. I cite a Pew Survey that show 70 percent agree with the Democratic position: get out.
I understand that this is an open thread, but P_mom raises some well-thought-out points it seems to me.
Morrison supports raising the penalities for attacking pregnant women regardless of the circumstances. Doesn’t that make better sense?
Domestic violence is more likely to happen when the woman is pregnant. Increase the penalties, get those guys into therapy. Divert those men who don’t get it, to the criminal courts.