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Open thread
- By Phillip Brownlee
- Posted April 1, 2007 at 1:05 a.m.
- Filed under Open thread
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100 Comments
Remember, ON TUESDAY, re-elect Carlos Mayans as Mayor in order to continue Carl Brewer in his present position as City Councilman. This would retain years of experience of both these gentlemen on the Wichita City Council.
Other wise, a new rookie council person will have to be found to replace Mr. Brewer’s council position.
A few ruffled feathers but both are gentlemen who can resume working together efficiently for Wichita’s citizens.
Might take some potato chips, chocolate cookies and James Barfield’s famous cool aide at the first council meeting of the next term but that should be easy to do.
April FOOLS DAy.
I want to be the first to welcome back the boycotter’s.
I think we could all get off on a good footing if we would obey some simple rules. Self-monitoring rules.
It would behoove us to attack a topic – and not the poster of such. Stating, “I disagree…” is better than stating, “You’re an idiot….”
A verbal attack on a public person – is NOT an attack on us personally; we don’t have to respond as if someone threatened the life of our child.
Pick one nic and stick to it. Changing nics to attack makes you a coward – nothing else. If what you were saying had merit – there would be no need to play musical nic’s.
Ganging up and tag-teaming a poster is Middle School antics. If you can’t debate one on one – why are you here?
This is the WEBlog. It’s meant for everyone who reads the Wichita Eagle and comes to their site to comment. It doesn’t belong to any little faction – on either side.
Certain things are NOT attackable. If you’ve met someone in person – they have trusted you enough that you do NOT need to turn around and attack them on appearance or anything else they allowed you to know.
Don’t go after families. Only the poster is writing here – attacking his/her children, parents, siblings is off-limits in just about EVERY board on the net, not to mention it is just low class.
There is NO topic so right or wrong that you have to threaten to harm another – or advocate that they harm themselves, etc.
Do NOT stalk. Leave this behavior to folks like BTK. Whomever the poster is HERE – is the entire persona that poster should be treated as. You don’t need to hunt down other sites and bring that info out here.
Basic respect.
That’s all.
We should ALL abide by these rules. And let us remember – the WEBlog owns this site – not us. It is a PRIVLEDGE that we get to post here. Let’s mind our manners.
Welcome back.
Sound good to me G!
Well thank-you, GS. I’m sure your “welcome” is heart-felt. Glad to hear you missed us.
I filed an injunction at the Court House to keep them from returning.
Will take most of GS rules in the spirit of it’s title “April Fools Day”. For instance:
1.”It would behoove us to attack a topic – and not the poster of such. Stating, “I disagree…” is better than stating, “You’re an idiot….”Does that mean we can’t calll anyone any names like “liberal” — “neocon” – both often confused with the mentally challenged. And what if someone truly is being an idiot?
2.”Ganging up and tag-teaming a poster is Middle School antics. If you can’t debate one on one – why are you here?”I think if we support a position shared by others, it’s not wrong to echo or add opinions / advice to support the issue.
3.”This is the WEBlog. It’s meant for everyone who reads the Wichita Eagle and comes to their site to comment. It doesn’t belong to any little faction – on either side.”Then why are YOU trying to make the rules? An overwhelming desire to establish control?
4. Certain things are NOT attackable. If you’ve met someone in person – they have trusted you enough that you do NOT need to turn around and attack them on appearance or anything else they allowed you to know.Well, what’s the fun in that?
5. “Whomever the poster is HERE – is the entire persona that poster should be treated as. You don’t need to hunt down other sites and bring that info out here.”The entire persona of some one includes what they post at other sites — may very well be germaine to the issue at hand.
6. “Basic respect.” This could be interesting — not generally in the nature of far right or left wingers to have any respect for others opinions — if they did they’d be called moderates.
“Rules? We don’t need no stinking rules” (or is that badges?)
Ken,
Well-said. And some very acute psychological observations as well.For the record, CF2K has decided to move beyond the use of profanity. It’s time.
I wonder why Carl Brewer wants to be mayor just to be Bob Knight’s butt-boy. I thought the black man had risen above this.
I suppose CF2K, attendance at your church is rubbing off then. :)
Ken,
Thanks for answering my post in the new spirit of cooperation.. I appreciate that. I’ll address your answers in kind.
1 – Liberal and Neocon are politically-accepted labels, and as such, I think they are fine, but I’m open to other’s suggestions. Yes, someone MAY be acting like a real idiot – but will it help the discussion to call them that?
2. I think ‘echoing’ or adding to an opinion is super – but ‘ganging up’ isn’t too nice. Usually only cowards need to find strength in numbers….and rabble rousers. And while it might be fun – is it productive to good disscussion?
3. Actually, I’m not trying to MAKE any rules. I was just trying to lend support for what I could remember of the rules the boycotter’s wrote when they left. I couldn’t remember the exact day – so I went from memory, and added what I knew from other boards I’ve been on. It’s a ‘collective’ decision, as far as I know.
4. Hmmmm… if it’s really “fun” to attack a person based upon knowledge they have entrusted you with – I’m not sure I’d ever want to meet anyone else from a forum. I think this was close to another one of the ‘rules’ the boycotter’s came up with, wasn’t it?
5. This was another of the boycotter’s rules – not to go off-site to find and harass. It sounds quite fair to me – and, once again, I’m just lending support, thinking it will be easier for them to come back.
6. I agree with you here. When we take a more ‘moderate’ viewpoint, we tend to be less disruptive and antagonistic.
Thanks for addressing the points. I hope you, and all of us, will continue to make our best effort to get along and respect each other.
I also think it is important for us to be welcoming to the returning boycotter’s. Their demands were not met, so they may be feeling a little despondent, but I’m encouraging all of us here to extend an olive branch – to make the transition back easier.And, in case you haven’t noticed, I’m trying to AGREE with their original demands – to make their homecoming a little rosier.
If they return – remains to be seen.
I doubt they will change their methodology though. Instead of using facts and logic, they will resort to phrases like “Wingnut, repuke, reich winger, etc etc.)
It’s what people do when they can’t logically argue a point.
Or go into a perpetual statement of denial even when they know they have erred. :)
Republican, if that happens, then, of course, all bets are off.
I’ve been glad to see a number of them come back prior to this, Ben, Vaughn, and, of course those who stayed like JR. BTW – where is he these days?
It’s just been so darned nice around here the past couple of weeks – I’m hoping we can keep it that way.
CF posted a satirical rambling last night – targeting some of us – but I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt that it was an April Fool’s Day trick.
And during their absence, we’ve been attracting a number of brand new posters – so I’d hate to see them leave if things got rough.
You may be right that some won’t come back – and that’s all right, those are probably the ones who just couldn’t get along anyway. I hope they find a place that suits them.
GS–
“Their demands weren’t met . . . ”
Actually, according to Phillip Brownlee’s e-mail, they would like to change the format of the WEBlog precisely as we have suggested, but the corporate suits have stuck them with what they’ve got.
I can’t speak for the others, but I personally think the boycott was terrific.
1. It shows that people can “organize for power.” See Saul Alinsky
2. It showed that by boycotting the WEBlog the number of posts–and no doubt the number of hits–fell dramatically.
3. It gave us a chance to step back and see that sitting in front of a computer arguing with intransigent idiots has no productive outcome.
(If the term “idiot” offends you, then don’t put yourself in that group.)
And now I’m off to church too . . . “Crown Him with many crowns / The lamb upon His throne.”
Guess what, GS? We didn’t make any demands.
So before we go on, a few facts are in order.
For those of you who are wondering, I haven’t posted here under my nic or any other. I’ve dropped in to read, but not even on a regular basis. Watching the majority here pat themselves on the back for a job well done gets boring after a while. What was it exactly that you did that’s so back-patting wonderful?
Of course there have been no volatile posts. How could there be when 95% of you do nothing but agree with each other? It wasn’t “our side” that was the problem. It was BOTH “sides”. I’ve noticed a few not-so-nice comments made to new posters here lately. So far, the name-calling has been held to a minimum, but I wonder just how long that will last.
As for the boycott and losing, we lost nothing. There was no “win” to it, but we did gain something. During our absence, we’ve discovered a little peace and quiet, a time for some reflection, and a lot of comraderie. Now, I’m sure fleetwood believes that’s the Ha Ha of the day, but that doesn’t surprise me, since it often seems that he is completely devoid of it. Comraderie, that is. So we shared some recipes? Seems to me there were several doing that here not long ago, including Hank. But that’s OKIYAAR, right?
It’s obvious that there were some here that missed us. Not only were we followed to a new blog, but our comments there were copied and pasted here…out of context. Ironic that this is one of your New Rules.
There were no demands made to the Editorial Staff, and we were not ignored. We made a request. Anyone who was posting or reading here at the time should know. Our letter was posted here. The request was denied, but we did receive a very nice reply, in case you’re interested and don’t have the lowdown on that. But we did “win” because we, as a group, politely addressed a situation that involved and affected ALL of us, left, right, and in-between. Perhaps GSheridan’s distant relative didn’t give her all the information?
And just to get something straight that GS posted a few days ago, there aren’t any ‘big bossies’ over on the blog where we’ve been posting. There’s been no one telling anyone else when to come back or not to come back. That’s something your own little minds have come up with. Each of us makes his or her own decision. Those who want to post here are returning. Those who don’t want to will continue not to post here. I respect an individual’s right to choose.
If you’d rather continue posting fiction, that’s your choice. Those who want to live in La-La Land will have a lovely time.
Oh, and GS? You don’t get to make the rules for everybody. We’ll take care of ourselves, thank you. :)
Now it’s time to get back to the reason we’re here. Let’s keep it civil, shall we?
Capn – thanks for your post.
Perhaps the boycott WAS more successful than I previously thought. It sounds like you guys enjoyed it – and I know WE did also.
Yes, the post count here dropped – but most of the posts that were absent were ones that were combative. The quality post count actually increased.
Yes, I know boycotts are mostly an organization for ‘power,’ and it’s unfortunate that you seem to be the first to return that is having a tough time complying with the very demands you issued when you left.
I’m sorry you already felt you had to term those you argued with, ‘idiots,’ and I hope that won’t become the norm from all the returners.
RD – now you’ve gone and made me look up the original demands from the group. No worries, I’ve been wanting to see them again, anyway.
It seems as though I was pretty close, anyway, with my rendition – but here they are, for those of you who didn’t originally see them:
——-[boycotter demands]“Areas of particular concern are as follows:
-Name stealing trolls-One user posting under multiple ID’s-Racist / sexist / homophobic language-Threats of “payback” in real life-Threats of violence or harm-Demands to meet “in person”-Violations of privacy or confidentiality
We request that the Eagle look into a way the problems stated above can be corrected.”[end boycotter demands]
—————–
See how good my memory is! I just expanded on them a little bit. I think it made them even better.
I see G is trying desperately to get some control of the situation.
Post the full text next time. These are hardly demands as G has been saying. They are the reasons for the boycott and suggestions for improvement. Perhaps GS would like to apologize now for lying?
March 14,
Dear WEBlog editors—
Thank you for setting up this public blog in which readers can post their views. It is an excellent concept.
But in practice, it needs serious improvement.
As it is now, a poster can steal people’s nicknames and seem to make them say things totally contrary to their beliefs. This has resulted in many misunderstandings and angry responses.
A poster can use a variety of nicknames and seem to be more than one person. Because nic-switching is so easy, any check on the truth of what a “pop-up” poster is saying is virtually impossible.
Racial, ethnic and homophobic slurs of the most vile nature are hurled with impunity. Some posters have even followed through on trying to meet another who has offended them . . . and it wasn’t to shake hands.
We believe the ONLY way to address the problem is some kind of registration. For instance, if post-ers were required to provide a real e-mail address (not a free web address such as yahoo or hotmail), The Eagle could insure that only one user name would be registered for each e-mail account.
Areas of particular concern are as follows:
-Name stealing trolls-One user posting under multiple ID’s-Racist / sexist / homophobic language-Threats of “payback” in real life-Threats of violence or harm-Demands to meet “in person”-Violations of privacy or confidentiality
We request that the Eagle look into a way the problems stated above can be corrected.
We the undersigned have opted to boycott the WEBlog as a demonstration of our desire for change in the way the WEBlog is managed. We look forward to time when the WEBlog can be as edifying and educational as it was meant to be.
Sincerely,
Tracy, WSClark, Mary Caruso, WichiWoman, KSFrmGrrl, Steven Davis, gdub, Ben Huie, XXX, .morg, CapnAmerica, gster, Julie, CF, mrcontroversy, RD, lindainks
Here is Phillip’s thoughtful reply to the boycott bloggers. Hardly sounds like they were denied anything by the WEBlog management. GS has been lying through her teeth about how the WEBLog management felt about the “demands” of the bloggers.
You can see here that he agrees with many points, but there are structural problems that prevent him from addressing the requests. Sounds here like he agreed with many of those requests.
Many snide remarks were made here regarding the boycott, their “demands” their relationship with the WEBlog mangagement, and their relationships with each other.
Lies and damned lies. So how about a little truth this Palm Sunday?
Anyway, here is Phillip’s email:
“I feel like Abraham Lincoln (or maybe the beaver) in those Rozerem commercials: “We want you back.” But, unfortunately, I don’t have good news about your recommendations.”As I’ve mentioned before, The Eagle does not own the blog, and our corporate owners don’t want registrations on blogs. I’ve asked several times about this.”They did finally agree to block IP addresses, but warned that doing so often isn’t effective and could result in inadvertently blocking the wrong person. We decided to try it and had them block the worst troll on the blog beginning in mid-January. But after someone on this e-mail list complained numerous times about being blocked, we removed the block on Feb. 24 to see if that would fix her problem. When it didn’t, we reinstated the block on Monday. During the time the block was off, the troll was posting.”Typepad, the blog vendor, also has a program glitch that hurts our ability to monitor postings. I’ve been complaining to the company about this for several months. As I mentioned at the last blog meet-up, I’m hoping that our corporate owners will switch vendors.”In the meantime, our tech people recommend ignoring trolls as much as possible, which I realize isn’t easy. And if there is an offensive post that you want us to consider removing, e-mail us about it.”I know this won’t satisfy your or my desire for a better blog, but I hope you will consider returning. We miss your participation and insights.”Phillip Brownlee
GS twists the request of the boycotters into demands, twists the WEBlog Editor’s reply into a “rebuff” and tries to make the rules for the returning bloggers.
No wonder she is so sorry to see the bloggers return. Now she has to be accountable for her lies and actions.
You dont make the rules GS or Republican, the biggest nic switcher on the blog.
Project much?
It seems to me that it started as a boycott against WEBlog, but then wichitavoice.com opened, and this was an alternative channel that satisfied the protestors, which was nice. I read wv at least once a day to see what their new threads are, and have posted a couple times.
One could envision both blogs succeeding, with people of differing perspectives contributing to both.
I think the improvement in civility shown in both blogs has a take-home lesson, if we are open to it. Or someone could open a third blog, wichitavitriole.com, for those who feel an insatiable need to vent their spleens.
Just for the record, many of GS “rules” were posted on the Wichita Voice yesterday.
GSheridan thank you for a kind and generous attitude to the ones that left here. i am sure they will apprediate it if there hearts are open. ive been reading here and posting a little and your rules are commonsense. i hope everyone will accept them in the spirit they are offered.
I see GS said nothing about nic stealing. The practice of stealing someone’s name and making an awful post using the stolen name.
Maybe she said nothing about it since it is a favorite tactic of republican, SOB, fleetwood and others who remained here.
Interesting omission.
If you don’t want your nic stolen, get typepad. Someone can pretend to be you, but when you click on their named and it doesn’t go to their typepad link, then you know it’s fake. That’s solved.
Multiple nic names. I don’t see the point here, if someone wants to go by Captain Kangaroo one day and Bugs Bunny the next, so be it. The number of post I got harassing me for being other nicknames was despicable as well. You have to look at it from both sides. If someone posts by a screen name, grant them the respect by posting to the screen name of their choosing and not playing games on who is behind the mask. That’s all it was, silly games.
Racist, homophobic, sexist language…I agree, no place for it. But at the same time, don’t accuse people of being those things without absolute truth. Not just because you disagree with them. If their faith requires them not to believe in homosexuality, deal with it and move on. Labeling them a homophobe is just as bad as someone who calls someone a racist or sexist names.
Only person I asked to meet up with is J R. He never replied. Thought if he met me face to face, he would find I’m not that bad of a person. :)
Violations of privacy. Agreed. Also, I would like to add this in with the nics. If the person chooses one nic, or 1000 nics, it doesn’t matter, stop trying to find out who they are. It’s pointless. If someone goes by Peter on one board and goes by Mike on another board, who cares? If they go by both names on the same board, who cares? Growup?
I read the Wichita Voice and the bloggers didn’t always agree. But they didn’t go off on who they didn’t agree with by calling them stupid, reich wing or any other name. They just disagreed. I expect the same treatment here with those that disagree. Labeling and constant harassment on points of contention is useless.
Example: Someone is anti-abortion. They make a statement. You disagree. Don’t go off on them by name-calling. Prove your point why they are wrong!! If it is a belief system or one of moral view, you will never prove them wrong, so get over it?
And don’t keep bringing it up over and over in threads that have nothing to do with the topic.
Example: You disagree with Ms.Thing on abortion. The topic of the thread is Street Maintenance in Wichita. Your replay is “We could get good street maintenance in Wichita if it wasn’t for reich wing Tiller haters like Ms. Thing!” I mean really, what does that have to do with street maintenance. Like I said, grow up.
I find it silly that they complain about things that they did themselves. I know how blogs work and have several myself. I know that some posters post under different names and try to hide the fact that they do it. I don’t care as long as they are civil.
I also know ones that try to goad people into arguments and are the first one’s to cry about it happens to them.
Mutual respect is the key word. It’s a simple concept…really it is.
I agree, Heartlander. The civilizedness of this blog has been a blessing these last two weeks. I will take your word about the other blog – I only visited very shortly two times and it seemed much nicer that what I was accustomed to those folks posting. I didn’t recognize a lot of names, however.
TC – I’m just trying to make your return easier – by reiterating your own group’s demands.
I think some of them are worthwhile, and I reposted them from the March 14th Open Thread. I didn’t read them on the ‘other’ site.
Put away the dagger – we’re all friends here.
We’re advocating the same thing after all – aren’t we?
I just felt you guys might feel a little despondent, since the WEBlog didn’t change anything here – that you asked to be changed.
I’m trying to help remedy that – voluntarily.
I’m agreeing with you here – take it at face value.
tc – I thought I covered ‘nic stealing’ in my point where I said ‘pick one nic, and stick to it.’
I’ve had my own nic targeted before – and whoever pretended to be me said rotten things to others. But, I caught it – and informed them that it was not I, and we went on from there.
That’s where the self-monitoring coems in. Right?
just a little defensive are we?
You dont make the rules GS or Republican, the biggest nic switcher on the blog.
Project much?
Posted by: tc | April 01, 2007 at 10:45 AM
Neither do you tc. :)
However, on my blogs I make the rules. :D
The only one despondent is GS. She is not going to be able to lie without contest.
Republican, EXCELLENT POST!
You really hit the nail on the head! Your examples show exactly how we all need to be respectful of others.
So far – the resident bloggers here – are showing a constructive and unified approach to not only welcome the boycotter’s back, but to make this board enjoyable for all.
Again – excellent post.
ROFL. That must be the middle school ganging up.
The returning bloggers might just have a surprise for GS and Republikhan.
Stay tuned.
tc – We’re trying to be nice to you.
Don’t you want us to?
Ian – I LOVE surprises.
Don’t keep us waiting.
Surprise meaning they are going back to their old ways, which wouldn’t be a surprise. :)
If they think harassing me will do something, think again, I bite back. :)
You think lying and imposing your personal rules on others is being nice. This is going to be good.
Watching Khan squirm with shame is going to be good. Watching GS unmasked will be better.
khan will be just fine with nic stealing. Who needs typepad? It is going to be just as funny.
Uh oh. Khan is threatening to bite.Who will he bite? The phantom?
tc, toby, timmy and cally,
This might sound strange – but I reread those who signed the boycotter’s demands – and none of your names are on it.
Are you already using nic-switching? Because, that was one of the things you wanted stopped.
Your rules will only be as good as you personally make them, after all.
So far – we’ve been very welcoming and receptive to you guys, but you have come back pretty mean-spirited.
Let’s all try again to get this off on a good footing.
We can do it.
We just all need to try.
He’s just blowing smoke before his lies are exposed. Popping corn.
bill and cheesehead – more new nics.
I find bloggers that take themselves too seriously amusing. There are some on both sides that do that.
Squirm eh? I never squirm. :)
If I squirmed, how come the Fisters are the one’s that left and I stayed?
Who squirmed in that regard? :)
WEll, I’m off for a fun and adventurous day, folks.
I trust everyone here can carry on – and, hopefully, in a civil manner.
Republican – I’m so proud of you for taking the high road. It shows that you have integrity and a sense of fair play.
I feel good that we are bending over backwards to welcome the boycotter’s back.
I think we both know which poster is here now, switching nics constantly. My gram would always tell me to look upon those who act-out with pity, instead of anger.
That’s what I’m going to do on this special Palm Sunday.
Have a super day, Republican.
You’re an awfully nice guy.
I fail to see how GS asking for basic respect is an attempt to force rules on people? It was a request for civility and limiting personal attacks.
For example, tc above stated: ” since it (nice stealing) is a favorite tactic of republican, SOB, fleetwood and others who remained here”
I am assuming TC has PROOF of that? Or is this just another baseless attack? I have had my nice stolen as well..shall I blame someone without any evidence, but just for the sole purpose of attacking?
GS offered some recommendations and ideas on maintaining some type of civility and mutual respect. I didn’t read it as a demand or mandating rules. Why would someone object to a request for mature discussion without the typical childish and immature attacks?
Here is an informative report on eight innovative charter schools.
http://www.ed.gov/admins/comm/choice/charterhs/report.pdf
Two Midwest schools, an arts school in Toledo, and a rural school in Minnesota, have white-majority enrollments, the other six have white-minority enrollments. In five schools, between 72% and 100% of students are eligible for free or reduced-price lunches.
In one school, Media and Technology (MATCH) Charter High School in Boston *every* admitted student enters with failing grades and low state-assessment-test scores (most are below basic). But with extremely dedicated young-adult tutors, faculty and administration, long school days, 2 hours of tutoring, a long school year, with Saturday activities, a *requirement* for students to take classes at Boston University, and AP classes, and students only being promoted after they demonstrate strong proficiency, this school is sending 100% of its 95%-non-white student body to 4 year colleges and universities.
These exemplary schools’ motto is “NCLU”, No Child Left Unknown. The teachers know their students. The students, for the first time in their lives don’t feel themselves to be society’s “disposables”. They’re given respect. They’re given hard challenges. But they are given teachers’ time, i.e. tangible support, to surmount the challenges, and learn the strategies and tactics that have always been taught to America’s socioeconomically-privileged students.
Interesting report heartlander. I heard on the news that corporate sponsors are giving Charter Schools in the Houston area $65 million dollars. They must be doing something right for Corporates to deal out that much money.
Good afternoon, WE Blog. As promised, this is my final post on this blog. I know that few will miss me, and I can assure you that I will not be shedding any tears over most of you.
I originally came to WE Blog with good intentions of engaging in serious debate on the topics that are most important to us today. In making my points, I shared some personal information to illustrate my point of view. Soon, that personal information was used to attack me, when I could not be challenged on the facts behind my arguments.
It started with anti-Semitic slurs. Then it was accusations of drug addiction because I occasionally smoke marijuana. After that, it was attacks on my personal courage because I did not serve in Viet Nam. Then came the almost inevitable affronts to my patriotism and suitability as an American citizen because of my opposition to the War on Iraq. Those comments were followed by accusations of treason and sedition, both capital crimes. Finally, my sexuality was repeatedly questioned because I support basic rights for gay people.
Am I innocent of bashing my opposition on the blog? Of course not! I was born with my guns loaded and I am not one to back away from a fight. The difference between me and those that have attacked me is that I am never the one that draws first blood.
And yes, I can be absolutely vicious in a fight.
A few months ago, an allegedly new poster on the blog addressed his very first comment to me with an ethnic slur. The same poster later accused me and fellow liberals of being gay lovers. Another blogger admits that she enjoys accusing liberals, including me, of being treasonous simply because it is irritating to us.
Irritating? Treason and sedition are still capital crimes. Apparently, advocating the execution of your fellow citizens is acceptable to some if you are shooting from the right side of the aisle.
Today, those two posters have appointed themselves the monitors of good etiquette and manners on WE Blog. The two absolute worst attack artists now celebrate the absence of the liberal boycotters because of the alleged dignified and respectful air now on the blog. Of course, you would have to expect the attitudes on the blog to be different if you remove twenty of the most vocal liberals from the mix.
All of those reasons are disconcerting, but they are not the reasons that I boycotted and am now leaving WE Blog.
Shortly before the boycott, a spineless troll referred to a female liberal blogger as a slut. This particular individual is one of the most intelligent, decent and kind people you could come across. She, if anyone, did not deserve that violation. Certainly the blame for the comment belongs to the nameless troll, but it is noteworthy that none of the right wing bloggers, including the newly self-appointed King and Queen of WE Blog, have condemned the attack.
Many posters here have decried the viciousness on WE Blog, but I have rarely seen the far right condemn the attacks from their side of the aisle. I am more than willing and able to take care of myself, but calling a reasonable, intelligent and respectful blogger a scurrilous woman is unacceptable in any forum. Apparently, the right demands their self-measured level of respect while denying the same to the left.
Those of you that are left can have WE Blog. Let it become your right wing playground. Let your hypocritical bullies run wild. Let your new King and Queen rule over you like royalty. It’s all yours now.
The right wingers here will dismiss our departure, but you need to look inside yourselves. Your accusations of treason, sedition, cowardice and depravity against us are certainly worse than anything the left has thrown back, yet you continue to claim the moral high ground. Is it somehow more honorable to accuse someone of treason than to call one a reich winger?
If you would like a civil discussion without ad hominem attacks, you know where to find us. I would extend an invitation to those on both sides of the political persuasion. I would mention, however, that on the new blog, you need a live e-mail address, one per customer. That might limit a few of you.
And just one last thing, I have enjoyed reading WE Blog over these past few weeks. At last count, I have been accused of posting under at least six different nicknames. I did not realize that so many of you were so afraid of me. It has been a hilarious read to say the least. It has been made even more humorous because, since the boycott began, I have never posted on this Blog until today.
You are what you are and nothing I can say or do will change that. Call me what you may, but if anything, I am honest.
May you all live long and enjoy life. Well, most of you………
Nice post WSClark, glad you got things off your chest.
I have nothing further to add. :)
I learned a long time ago that attempting to speak for others is the easiest way to get in trouble :)Therefore, I will take the sincere postings at face value, until proven otherwise.The tipping point for a lot of us was the post with the nic “lindaslut”. Hopefully, we can all agree that was an excess we do not return to.I have the found the time off to be most productive–projects I had been working on since December suddenly got finished–and introspective.There have been times when perhaps my words were excessively intemperate toward other bloggers, and if they were–and it was undeserved–I apologize.You may note that we now have a blog over on our station’s website. I want to stress that this is not a product of the boycott, but rather, a response to the Prospector dropping the weekly columns by Ron and Sheryl Nutt and myself.We also thought it would be great to give our other on air personalities, Bob Knight, James Barfield and Phil Journey, et. al, an opportunity to interact with viewers. We have a very different audience than the Eagle.I still intend to post here, and we sure hope some of the WEBlog editors stop by our place sometime.Still, I won’t back down from a fight if provoked. Like the Hulk, you wouldn’t like me when I’m angry :)
What is your station mrcontroversy?
You have a URL for it you can post here?
Just click on my nic…it’ll take you there.
You’re a lot of things, WS. Perpetually angry; disturbed; perhaps borderline psychotic and delusional.
And yes, in your own way, honest. You call ‘em as you see ‘em. Unfortunately, your view of how you “see ‘em” is more than a bit skewed. Not skewed politically, for while I disagree with many of your views, I have enormous respect for anyone with a coherent world view. People should be passionate about what they believe in.
But you, and many here on both sides, cannot seem to separate the political from the personal. Labels like “liberal,” “conservative,” and others that are generally used (and often misused) as shorthand for political positions, may be perfectly valid, if not very helpful; unfortunately many of our returners began immediately with the rhetoric of confrontation. Yes, that’s you, CF. Interesting you come back here in the “spirit” of wanting civil discourse and immediately start with a personal attack. Do as I say, not as I do, I guess. And yes, I fell into it in responding. “Moonbat” is the same level of rhetoric you used. And I’ll apologize for same. I responded to intentional provocation, and I’m responsible for my response. I can be, and should be, better than that. I need not stoop to the same level.
So WS, your point of view is welcome; your often displayed tendency to take every statement as a personal attack and respond with anger, and in at least one case, an invitation for a physical confrontation, is not.
For that reason, WS, you’re right in one respect. You will not be missed.
This from the man who had to come to the Wichita Voice to insult the missing bloggers. GMC, your post rings hollow. Clark didnt come over here to hassle you. Unless you feel guilty. Talk about taking things personal. I didnt see Clark calling you out the way you had to have someone else post your venom over at the WV.
Pul-eeze.
This is America, rule. You have the right to be wrong.
I will miss WS.
GMC will be the first one to wet his panties like a little girl when he thinks someone else is not civil. But he calls out Clark. You see Clark under every tea cup. How does it feel to be so bitter, angry and paranoid?
GMC might treat us to one of his goodbye posts. It is his pattern to leave the blog in a huff only to slink back again when he thinks everyone has forgotten what a jerk his is. Until the next time.
I was unaware of a couple things posted upthread:
-Philip’s response, which I never saw. I appreciate the consideration, Philip.
-That somebody called lindainks55 the name that they called her. I wasn’t present for that particular offense, but I wonder whether the offending party apologized. I also wonder whether the offending party is one of those who presumes to lecture CF2K about ‘civility.’
You folks want civility? Fine by me. But you don’t get to act as if the last thirty years of “liberals=traitors” rhetoric didn’t happen, or that right wing talk radio and Fox News are about reasoned discussions of the issues: they aren’t.
You want this place to an oasis of sanity in an otherwise asymmetrical, right-tilting media environment? Fine. But if you do, then no decision about what “sanity” constitutes can be legitimate unless liberals are a part of it, since our voice is the minority voice in public affairs and media prominence. Decisions about “sanity” or “civility” surely don’t fall to someone who used the word mrcontroversy mentioned above to attack a regular poster who is obviously a lover rather than a fighter; and it most surely doesn’t fall to someone who condones the shifting of identities in order to avoid being held accountable for one’s racist views. You heard me, Repubican.
If this “civility” comes at the price of honesty, I want no part of it. CF2K will police himself. He will attack those he sees fit to attack, and he will honor those who deserve to be honored. What he won’t do is allow those who have proven themselves to be less than honorable in the past to define the terms of debate or the rules of engagement.
Rules concerning “civility.” How PC is THAT? Oh, the irony.
The only whiner more whiney than GMC is raptor. Can’t wait for his response.
Are you calling me a racist CF2K?
I just want it to get in print for the whole world on the Internet to see. :)
What you seem to be saying, CF, is that you will be civil and act like an adult when you feel like it, and reserve license to go off when you don’t. That’s a meaningless pledge. You are responsible for the discourse you write, just as I am responsible for mine.
If I’m misreading you, I’ll apologize in advance. But I don’t think so. You strike me as one who believes you are always the smartest person in the room, and you are determined to make sure the rest of us know it.
And yes, I have my own arrogant streak, so I may indeed be the pot calling the kettle black!!
No one hopes that civil disourse, lacking meaningless labels, holds up more than I.
But I’m not holding my breath.
As to the rest of you – all of you. I’ll apologize when I’m wrong, as I have before. Go back, read my history of posting here, and say with a straight face that I have wallowed in the name-calling, labeling, and harrassment. I’ve called out both sides. I’ve called out racism. I post under one, and only one, name. I write on subjects I have an interest in, and don’t when I don’t. There are many here that post far more than I, and are far more well-informed on many subjects than I. But this blog is a window into opinion about events around Wichita and the world, unfiltered by any media, whether that media is perceived right or left slanted. For that, I enjoy it, and participate from time to time.
What offends me here is that many (and yes, through my rose colored glasses I see it as primarily, thought not exclusively, the left) seem unable to challenge a point of veiw WITHOUT making it personal.
Again, I truly hope the informal rules advocated by both “sides” hold up. They’re frankly little more than basic common sense and common courtesy. But, again, I’m not holding my breath.
I’ve written my standard before. Please, folks, remind me of it, and hold me to it if I get out of line. I’d invite any and all to join this with me.
I WILL NOT WRITE ANYTHING I WOULD NOT SAY, FACE TO FACE, IN A PUBLIC FORUM.
‘Nuff said on the return of our boycotters. It’s a PUBLIC forum, not our private playground. It reflects on us, and on Wichita. I hope we all remember that.
GMC70 wrote:
“You’re a lot of things, WS. Perpetually angry; disturbed; perhaps borderline psychotic and delusional…”
Glad to know what constitutes the new conservative “high road.”
GMC is okay except for the fact he lives in the wrong county? :D
I’m kind of sorry the homecoming isn’t going as well as could be.
I really thought we tried hard to roll out the welcome mat.
I’m not sure I really understand the post from WS – he came back just to leave again? I had not known about Linda being called a slut. That’s unfortunate – but I certainly couldn’t not denounce something I didn’t know happened. On the same topic, only a few days after I came to this board – Ben called me a slut, a “CON-slut,” to be exact. I asked him why – he told me. We patched things up. I really like Ben. But like the incident with Linda, no one stuck up for me, either. Linda is one of the posters I will be happy to see back here. If someone calls her that name again, I’ll denounce it.
If WS is telling the truth about not being the nic-troll here – I apologize for accusing him. I was informed that the troll posts here coincided with his posts on the other board and that on days he was gone from the other board – the nic-troll was also gone from here. I’m kind of surprised the troll, who I assume to be a bud of WS’, is so willing to let him take the fall.
For all the insinuations WS made about those of us who stuck it out here, staying loyal to WEBlog – there is one thing I’ve never done. I’ve never told anyone to come and meet me and told them I was going to physically kick their ass. WS issued that challenge to me, however.
I’m sorry he feels he is not welcome here. Republican, raptor, writerdog and I have gone out of our way today to try and smooth things over for the boycotter’s so they could come back with their heads up.
I AM glad to see some are taking our invitation to heart.
And, WS, if you’re reading this – you are MORE than welcome here, too. Think about it. Mull it over, and don’t be a stranger.
I’ve forgiven all your transgressions against me – I’m sure you can be a big boy and do likewise.
Ha! Well, I see it’s back to the status quo. So much for the predictably meaningless “new attitude” pledges.
Nice day though. I think I’ll go to the range and hit some balls.
HEY, NATHAN!!!
Welcome home! It’s great to know you’re back, safe and sound and as ornery as ever. You’ve been sorely missed.
Thanks for the welcome home.
I am glad to be back.
On a totally different topic.
GO OUTSIDE!
It’s fabulous! I’m taking a break from some new SAR training techniques with my Saints. We decided to see if they could catch a Frisbee. One can! Kind of….it’s coming. The other one just runs into her and pushes her with her head. lol It’s the cutest thing ever.
Oh yeah – I have to scoop poop, too, but I’m not letting that dampen my spirits.
But, just GET OUTSIDE!
After all the dreary rain – it’s time to run, run, run. And catch. And throw. I thought about doing a cartwheel, but then I thought – gee that might be a really ugly sight, so I just laid down in the grass and rolled and the dogs tried to sit on me. Finally, they burrowed their noses into my hair and pretty much stopped me from rolling. It made them really playful. Molly laid right beside me – and Katie, the 145 lb ‘baby’ sat right on my back. Dang she needs to go on a diet! She thinks she is just a little thing. I’m a little muddy – but it’s all good.
We have friends coming over in awhile and we’re going to shoot the new Bushmaster AR15. God, it’s fun. Smooth, too. But it’s darned expensive to shoot – so I’m only doing it on special occasions.
I might even drag out the old skiff and make the dogs take a pond-paddle with me.
Woo-hoo. Get out! I’m refreshed and ready for Round 2.
Asking for mature, rational discussion is being whiny? Whatever do you hope to accomplish with insults like that?
WS I’m sorry to hear you are going away. Not because I’ll miss all the names you have called me. Not because you told me I wasn’t a friend of yours. Not because you are liberal and I am conservative but because I have had some interesting conversations with you. When we fail to entertain the other side of logic we are limiting ourselves in how we can grow intellectually. I can’t say I haven’t enjoyed the more tranquil pace of the blog this past week, but I can say it’s a very bland world when there is often only one side to an argument posted.
I hope all the boycotters will return and want to apologize for anything I might have said in anger. I remember one time Pmom made me really angry when she asked me if I would donate a kidney. I thought we were having a serious discussion about helping displaced women re-enter the work force. I called the entire blog a bunch of losers and didn’t come back for a week.
However when I repeated this story to some friends they cracked up and told me I shouldn’t be so thin skinned.
What I am trying to say is that I look on most of those on the blog as an extension of my friend network even we have never and probably won’t meet in person. Some are just a little easier to get along with than others just like in real life. No one wants to lose a good friend.
Welcome back – hope you stay awhile.
Republican writes–”If someone posts by a screen name, grant them the respect by posting to the screen name of their choosing and not playing games on who is behind the mask. That’s all it was, silly games.”
No, sorry, Republican.
Personal experience is a very valuable resource. Most of us know what we think we know because of interacting with other people.
When you “speak for blacks” by claiming to be a black man and you’re not, that’s lying. You know damn well that claiming personal experience that you don’t have gives you some extra credibility, and that’s why you do it.
You don’t get to just change your nic and change your back-story because to you it’s nothing but a “silly game.”
Words have meanings. To say that they don’t is to say that life has no meaning.
Much to do about nothing. Many of you talk / type way to much – keep beating dead horses —
As someone who would like to raise the tone of the WEBlog, I would like to submit the following user code of netiquette:
Thou shalt not
1. take other post-er’s names unto yourself2. use multiple nicknames3. use racist / sexist / homophobic language4. make threats of “payback” in real life5. make threats of violence or harm6. make demands to meet “in person”7. violate a post-er’s privacy or confidentiality.
I think these seven cover most of what GS mentioned.
*****
In the spirit of bi-partisan co-operation, I’d like to direct my first complaint against “timmy/cally/bill.”
As GS rightly pointed out, you’re violating number 2.
Also what’s with the vague threats against GS and Republican? You may also be in violation of 4 and 7. If you’ve got something to say, say it.
We’re trying to give the WEBlog a chance to work the way it’s supposed to, not to reductio ad absurdium.
And GMC, since you are not a trained psychologist, please spare us your observations on who is “borderline psychotic and delusional.” You haven’t violated any of the above rules — except for common sense and common decency . . .
I have been thinking, (I know, back up and watch out) but I really do not understand and am hoping for some insight into why giving a pull out date from Iraq would be so bad. Some say that the enemy will “wait us out” what exactly does that mean. That peace will breakout until we leave, and we will not be able to train Iraqi forces unless there is an enemy to fight. Does it mean that the fighting will get worse for that year? Some say it is surrender but we have already declared “mission accomplished” and that the world at the time was a “safer place”. I admit that one baffled me at the time but some seem to have understood. I thought we were after OBL and WMD’s but without either one “mission accomplished”. It seems that the fight over there now is Iraq’s for its own life and I know we made the mess so we should help in their fight. But in the end they have to standup together for their self’s and at some point we will just be in the way, if we truly are to give them back their country. So just between me and you, on this blog, without the enemy here, and neither of us the decider, how much is enough, four more years, 3,000 more American lives. Will they really decide to come here after us (the Iraqi’s or the ones that came here already before invading Iraq). Maybe there is something I am not seeing so I ask why giving a pull out date from Iraq would be so bad.
Something to think about, if things had went the way Bush (Cheney) had thought at the time of “mission accomplished” do you think we would already be at war with Iran?
Words have meanings. To say that they don’t is to say that life has no meaning.
Posted by: CapnAmerica | April 01, 2007 at 04:26 PM
If I said them in a dialect of Russian, they would have no meaning to you. Does that mean life would have no meaning? :)
You keep bringing these things about who you think I am. I challenge you once again to provide the proof.
The challenge is out there, now prove it or stop making this silly accusations.
Let me add another rule, wait someone higher has already made it.
“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.”
I was responding only to your contention that people should be able to switch-nics as much as they want to with a hypothetical situation.
The rest was your own guilty conscience.
BTW, I whacked a troll for you too.
You’re welcome.
I have no guilty conscience.
Who was the troll you whacked? Never noticed it, I don’t read every post, I’m a scanner.
Everytime I come back here you pethetic fucks are bitching about the rules of engagement!
I may just have to give it up. So pathetic.
We just bombed Iran!
April Fools~
I think?
Well . . . one needs to first have a conscience to have a guilty conscience.
Heckler, insightful as ever.
Your contributions will be missed . . .
Lovely thread. Arguing about arguing…
Good grief.
Good luck to you all. I am sure you will need it much more than you know.
This is from another blog. It probably breaks rules 3, 2.5, and maybe 1.8. This is from GMC on the other blog:
“But the posters at WE are, as a group, hands down better than the self-rightous group of assholes (excuse my French) over here, working their arms out of socket patting themselves on the back. There is diversity of opinion and personality there; here, there is only the echo-chamber as this boycott blog circles its way, ever smaller, down the drain, self-congratulating and mouthing the DU line.”
This is the same person who claims to have so many problems with name callers.
We’re supposed to trust him in terms of advice on public decorum. Please, don’t make me laugh…
Since it was such an awful place to go, kinda makes you wonder, why he felt the need to go there?Hmmmm….
Dang–Heckler dropped the F-Bomb! Even CF2K doesn’t do that anymore.
Repubican,
I can’t prove it. But the circumstantial evidence suggests it–namely, the fact that, to the best of my knowledge, only three posters here–you, JM, and Eier–have claimed to be former Air Force personnel. There’s also the fact that no one, to the best of my knowledge, has even seen the three of you in a room together, much less on the WeBlog at the same time. That, along your permissive would-be policy toward nic-switching, tells me that I’m right–all of your protestations to the contrary.
And, to be frank, I’m past the point where I believe much of what you say about yourself and your identity.
Tom,
Agreed. A bunch of Right-Wing, PC, process police moved in and trashed the place. Mopping-up operations should concluded soon.
Seems to me the ones who complain the most about others not being civil on the blog are some of the biggest offenders themselves….how about a little insight for a change? Maybe a good look in the mirror would be appropriate right now.
Mary Caruso,
If I thought it would help them, I’d throw the “P” word out there (Projection). I suspect your good advice and my pop psychology jargon will be equally lost on the majority of our resident Right-Wing civility police.
Mary – you are 100% correct.
The ones who have complained the most here – are the ones who picked up their marbles and ran shrieking to a different hideout because they could dish it out – but not take it.
They made a HUGE theatrical performance out of it.
But, their ploy backfired. And just to show how truly addlepated most of them are – I reiterated their OWN proposals – and they started stomping and hissing….”she can’t do that,”….”who does she think she is?”
LOL
Their OWN proposals.
Goes to show they don’t want peace, they want only to drive a wedge.
They made a power play.
They lost.
End of story.
I’m ready to move on and forget they ever existed.
Aren’t you? Isn’t this getting to be a redundant and boring topic? It’s been beat to death. Some have returned – let’s allow the rest to move on with their lives instead of monitoring this board 24/7 and crying in their milk.
We’re all adults here. Let’s act like it.
How classic is it that GSheridan appears not to realize that Mary Caruso’s reference to “those who complain the most about civility” is, in fact, a reference to GSheridan and her double, Republican?
GS, you basically claimed those proposals as yours. Can we say “plagiarism”?
OTOH, who cares?
I would have thought by now that we would be past this, but for some crazy reason, there are those here who want to drag it on and on. If you’re hoping your harping will send us back again, I can assure you that at least some of us aren’t inclined to do so. Many of us were here long before you (GS, Republican, and a few others) joined up.
Without a differing opinions, this place is dead.
RD,
Indeed–as was demonstrated for the last two weeks (excellent posts by specific individuals notwithstanding).
“They made a HUGE theatrical performance out of it”
hehehehehehehehhehehhheehehhehehehehehehehehheh (deep breath) hehehehehehehehehehehhehheheehheheh
Mirror mirror on the wall, who’s the biggest drama king of them all?
Marcia Brady? hehehehehehhehehhehe
How classic is it that GSheridan appears not to realize that Mary Caruso’s reference to “those who complain the most about civility” is, in fact, a reference to GSheridan and her double, Republican?
Posted by: CF2K | April 02, 2007 at 12:27 PM
How classic was it of those returning to invoke our names first (myself and GS.)
The Brady song was cute, sort of a middle school thing I suppose, but cute nevertheless. I don’t mind being roasted in a comedic style.
I don’t cut and run. :)
But the question is…
do you brush your teeth?
brush teeth? what’s that?
I swear, I think they troll themselves just for the attention.
CF2K, you were right on, go to the head of the class!!!
Glad to see you’re back Frmgrl!
ROFL – it’s so funny to see the poor , dejected boycotter’s pouring over this forum, probably crying their eyes out, as they realize they blew it…big time.
RD – yes, you were here first, but in the grand (liberal) tradition of the AFLCIO (unions) when you left – you lost your seniority. Now, suck it up. LOL
The boycotter’s threw one heck of a hissy fit, thinking, all the while, that they would really ’show us,’ by Gawd. They would dictate their demands and the WEBlog editors would capitulate.
They were WRONG.
There are NO CHANGES from their histrionic tantrum.
They lost – pure and simple. The reasonable folks here called their bluff.
My advice to you guys?
Don’t drop any money in Vegas.
ROFLMAO
Some things never change…GS is wetting her pants with glee that we’re back and she can go back to her usual ranting and personal attacks.”Reasonable folks”? Now I’m ROFLMAO!
I know I’m late to this party, but as I was reading through earlier posts in this thread I came across this one from Republican and could not let his blatant, absurd hypocrisy go without comment:
“If they return – remains to be seen.
I doubt they will change their methodology though. Instead of using facts and logic, they will resort to phrases like “Wingnut, repuke, reich winger, etc etc.)
It’s what people do when they can’t logically argue a point.
Or go into a perpetual statement of denial even when they know they have erred. :)
Posted by: Republican | April 01, 2007 at 09:49 AM”
Republican knows ALL about denial even when he knows he’s erred. Remember when I helpfully pointed out your incorrect use of the word “neo-lib”, Republican? Rather than admit your error you actually made up your own private definition of the word and then continued using it as though it meant only what you WANTED it to mean. http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/03/quote_of_the_we.html#comment-64434824
Then there was the days long thread on Global Warming in which Republican went into a frenzy of cutting and pasting, frequently failing to notice that the things he was pasting were arguing against him. And every single time this was pointed out to him he denied it.
Finally, the reason I tend to focus on Republican’s hypocrisy more than the rest of the kids here, is because Republican occasionally likes to pretend that he’s reasonable, when he’s not. That’s actually WORSE than being consistently unreasonable. Republican will sometimes take a shower and get all gussied up in his “reasonable” persona and use his “reasonable” fancy talk. But it’s all so much BS.
As proof I offer you a link to my very first post on this blog, to which Republican responded fairly “reasonably.”
http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2007/03/gonzales_three_.html#comment-63324070
He graciously acknowledged the strength of my arguments in this thread. And I believe he responded that way to me primarily because he didn’t yet know that I was a liberal. I didn’t yet know that he was a ridiculous hypocrite. Now if you ask him about the issue we first interacted on, you won’t get anything near this willingness to consider opinions that differ from his. This DESPITE there being MUCH more evidence at hand that has caused other conservatives to change their minds on this issue. But then, Republican is most comfortable in a state of denial.