The Legislature wisely didn’t intervene in an investigation of Wichita abortion doctor George Tiller and order Attorney General Paul Morrison to file charges. But two anti-abortion groups aren’t giving up their crusade.
Kansans for Life said this week that Morrison should be disqualified from the case. And Operation Rescue called on Morrison to recuse himself because he benefited from negative campaign advertisements against his opponent last election, former Attorney General Phill Kline, that Tiller helped finance.
Morrison hasn’t said much, other than to repeat that his office is carefully reviewing the case and will file charges if justified.
Lt. Gov. Mark Parkinson, a longtime friend of Morrison, told The Eagle editorial board that Morrison can be trusted. “He is extremely independent, tough-minded, fair,” Parkinson said. “And if there are things that need to be prosecuted, he’ll prosecute them. But he won’t prosecute them because somebody tried to force him into doing it.”
That’s why Kansans overwhelmingly voted for Morrison last election.
Posted by Phillip Brownlee
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80 Comments
Morrison should not be FORCED into filing anything.
This is being discussed, in depth, on another board where a legal eagle is weighing in, and, I have to admit - there are some serious concerns about Tiller.
But - bringing charges for what might amount to be nothing more than petty oversights, or even slight infractions seems overkill when compared to numerous charges DA’s all over the State are not filing against individuals because their caseloads are too full, or some other reason.
It sounds as though Tiller might have broken the law - but in such a slight way as to be almost meaningless.
Kind of like the speeder down the Interstate that the cop lets off with ‘just a warning.’
It just happens all the time. Not ALL crimes warrant charges.
I think Tiller’s probably fall within that category.
If Morrison, Foulston, whoever, goes after Tiller on technical infractions - they would need to go after each and every doctor in the State for minor infractions, also. And no one wants that.
I think the solution is to give Tiller a ‘warning.’ Give him a chance to comply with the regulations - to the letter.
But charges seem unnecessary.
I think this really and truly IS a political thing.
I would like to see the pro-lifer’s doing more to HELP these girls.
I guess it could be called “negative campaigning “ by pointing out that the opponent is not doing the job! And following his personal agenda instead of the law. Kline it is so wrong when someone had you so right huh?
I think that’s it, writerdog. Just negative campaigning. And I, for one, am plain tired of hearing it - long after the election is over.
And it seems to be rooted in sour grapes.
Kline lost - he lost badly. I’m sure that hurts, and even though I am proudly GOP - I could NOT support him.
I don’t think that I would call it negative campaigning. Afterall, who among us would have even known what Operation Rescue said if not for this article? And normally, would the Eagle care enough to print what Operation Rescue said?
No, it is Phillip keeping it alive and again offering his revisionist take on why folks voted for Morrison. Pretending that it was for a positive reason, rather than largely because of the misleading hit pieces that the Eagle and KC Star did on Phill Kline.
Why revisionist? Because at this time the Eagle has no moral ground to call anyone on negative campaigning.
I lived in the Kansas City area for 11 years while Paul Morrison was the DA for Johnson County. He has a reputation for doing the right thing. I trust his judgement. If there is something there to justify prosecuting, he will. If there isn’t, he won’t.
oh please outlander. There was nothing misleading about what the Eagle or any other newspaper chose to print.
It sounds to me like this crap isnt just coming from Kline. Destroying the judiciary has been a long time goal of the GOP.
And do I HAVE to point out how many times they have tried to change how judges are appointed in Kansas, how many times Kansas judges have been slandered by the reich wing, and how the wingnuts went after the wife of Don Allegrucci.
And did I mention the hissy fit the GOP threw about school finance and those ac-teee-vist judges?
Of course, I could write another entire post about bushco and their methodical efforts to make justice not only blind but crippled as well.
US Attorneys anyone?
I just think this is a standard page from the GOP playbook, both national and state.
All these champions of free speech, private property, and good Evangelical values should stop whining and start their own damn newspaper.
They already have 80% of AM radio, 1/3 of FM, FOX News Channel, and Channel 10/KAKE. They’re free to start a newspaper to compete with the Eagle.
:::eyeroll:::
OH my god, I actually agree with GS on something…
hee hee hee hee well little miss hissy fit and her big stud republican were BOTH on the same side of DU posters yesterday.
But I’m sure if asked they would deny it…
I wonder if careful review of the case will be until the papers by Kline expire. :)
GS please share your past with the group. I’m sure they’d be interested, and since I won’t give that info, I’d sure like it if you did.
You have a great deal to offer this thread.
well…if parkinson said it then its gold.
thank god we have good upstanding people like morrison and parkinson who have never waivered from their support of certain principles…
I just vomited.
How often do AG’s anywhere prosecute misdemeanors?
Poindexter,
It’s their unwavering adherence to principle that drove them to change parties. I speak from experience…I was a Republican from 1979 to 2005. My principles never changed. Your party has gone into the toilet.
What took you so long Tom???
Yes GS, please share your past with us. You are EVER so interested in my off blog life, I would welcome the chance to hear about you in REAL life.
Who wants to bet she is too scared to do it?
Chickenhawk.
“How often do AG’s anywhere prosecute misdemeanors?”
Well Paine, that depends. Are we talking about philllllll “all abortion all the time” kline?
Or are we talking about real prosecutorial AG’s.
The answer will vary, depending on the AG in question.
And phillllllll’s credentials and abilities are ALWAYS in question.
Kline was a fool. I am a conservative Republican and voted for Morrison. Somehow, sometimes, common sense has to prevail over party or liberal/conservative identifications. If Morrison finds criminal activity, he needs to prosecute, if he doesn’t, let him drop it. Tiller/aboortion loyalty or opposition need have nothing to do with it.
Operation Rescue is about a dozen people, mostly from out of state. Who cares what a small group of extremists thinks? One of their members lives in a $100,000 home and doesn’t pay his taxes. Others have donated to Phill Kline’s campaign but didn’t demand that he withdraw from the Tiller investigation. Hypocrites.
The people have voted that they don’t want Operation Rescue representing their interests. Perhaps it’s about time OR goes back to California.
Or Michigan. Isnt that their most recent stronghold?
It’s sad that organizations like OR distract from the real issues, they just drive those on the fence to the opposite side…it would be wonderful to have productive and meaningful discussion and problem solving on the issue rather than the extremism and bad behavior from both sides.
Mary Caruso
“it would be wonderful to have productive and meaningful discussion and problem solving on the issue rather than the extremism and bad behavior from both sides.”
HEY! A bit of sanity! But then, how much fun would blogs be without bad behavior :)
The blog would be boring if we were nothing but well behaved…..I’m taking about the morons who run drive around town in the truth truck or and the ones who applaud for joy in the clinic parking lot when women seeking abortions pull in or verbally abuse those praying in front of the clinic. It’s such an emotional issue and those who resort to such extreme tactics don’t resolve or accomplish anything, they just keep adding more fuel to the fire.
The fiasco that was the Phill Kline term was due to the far religious right controlling which candidates can move past the Republican primaries. The extremeists have an undue influence on the KS Republican party. So blame your base Republicans, those are the folks who got you where you are in terms of this and other races in KS.
A complaint I have. I have read where Morrison is referred to as “pro-abortion” and Kline referred to “anti-abortion”. Whereas Kline has announced his anti-abortion stance in so many ways (in fact I think he thought that position alone would return him to his office), Morrison, to my knowledge, has never made his personal position on the subject of abortion known.
I think Kline supporters want to call Morrison pro-abortion and it is distrubing to me how easily the media (including the Eagle) pick up on that language. Morrison is a life-long Catholic, and he comes from generations of life-long Irish Catholics. So, it is my presumption that Morrison, who with his wife teaches Sunday school, has heard a pope, or two maybe, say unequivocally that abortion is a sin and wrong.
I agree, extreme tactics on either side just push people deeper into their position. I tend to sympthasize more with the “truth truck” people, because at least in their minds, they are saving lives, and the opposite can be said of their opponents. However, common sense needs to prevail here. I cannot listen as long as you are screaming at me. The “truthtrucks” may be truthful, but offensive. They are offensive to me as well. There are many truths which I do not care to see publicly paraded. IT is a truth that I use the restroom, as does every human being. I do not care to see individuals performing such an action. Some things are best said with quiet words and quieter actions. The abortion debate is one.
Tom,
Have I told you lately that I love you?
Uh Mary,1. We weren’t applauding with joy, we were simply trying to drown out the insults the anti’s were screaming at clients.2. I never verbally abused those christians who blocked the driveway on their knees, praying loudly for hellfire and destruction to be rained down on the clinic; I simply held a small sign with the words “Matthew 6, verse 5″ on it.
Yeah, right. Just because you didn’t do it, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. And I’ve heard a different version from you as to why you all were clapping when the women were pulling into the lot…keep your story straight. I’m tired of the way you demonize the other side and throw up the facade of sainthood on your side.It’s not black and white, or good vs evil….but that’s always the way you portray it.
Mary, I recall you anti-abortionists shooting doctors. That means all of you are terrorists and assassins. Gee, it’s so easy to play this game. If a Constitution loving pro-choicer harasses an anti-American, freedom hating Christian terrorist I’ll shed no tears.
I always have to wonder why we can’t all just agree that as a practical matter….no one will ever be able to force every woman to carry every pregnancy to term. Period. We would all do well to make every effort to give all the support to help folks find other alternatives than abortion.
“…support to help folks find other alternatives than abortion.”
I think it’s called adoption.
fleettwood - I trust that you have sent a nice check to gerard House or similar organization?
Might I suggest that everyone — *EVERYONE* — seek and rent the film “Leona’s Sister Gerri.”
It was made in 1995 and has just recently come out on DVD. I rented it from Netflix and it is must-see for anyone who has an opinion on this issue.
Here’s the Netflix summary:
“Jane Gillooly’s intense documentary humanizes an iconic photograph that became the centerpiece for the fight for abortion rights. Before her body was found on a motel floor after a botched illegal abortion — an image captured and reprinted hundreds of times — Gerri Santoro was a beloved mother and a sister. She was also a woman struggling to leave an abusive marriage. Here, she’s remembered in all her complexity, rather than as simply a victim.”
We hear from Gerri’s best friend, from her “Pro-Life” daughters, and get a glipse of what it was like years before Roe v. Wade.
The DVD includes fifteen minutes of viewers’ reactions to the film’s original release.
It is one of the most balanced treatments of the issue I have ever seen.
Highly recommended.
“Leona’s Sister Gerri”
fleetwood,From your simplistic response, I’m going to assume you have never conceived, carried or delivered a child. There is a little more to it than you indicate and I feel that support is a better approach than harrassment and vilification.
“fleettwood - I trust that you have sent a nice check to gerard House or similar organization?”
You trust correctly.
“I feel that support is a better approach than harrassment and vilification.”
I agree. Until they kill it. I have said before, I am a 3 month pro-choicer, after that no deal. It’s not consistant with the anti-choice hard cores, but, oh well.
I stand corrected in my first opinion of you fleettwood. I originally thought you were more dogmatic but I’m glad to say we may share a pragmatic outlook…:>)
Even if Morrison finds that Tiller broke the law, he will do nothing. The Eagle and Morrison are fooling no one. It is okay for Tiller to puncture the head of a fetus. For the Eagle’s editorial board, that is completely fine. Only asking Morrison to prosecute Tiller is an immoral and illegal deed. It is sad that babies are being killed and the Eagle covers for the tiller, I mean killer.
Augh. Tiller does not jab babies in the head.
If it’s all abortion all the time…
…it must be a blog in Wichita!
“If it’s all abortion all the time…
…it must be a blog in Wichita!”
Why don’t you just stomp off and quit?
“Tiller does not jab babies in the head.”
You are correct. He jabs them in the back of the neck. You win.
No he doesn’t do that either.You really should do a little research.
Since ksfarmgrrl is adopted, does she consider herself a product of forced birthing?
PM, the antis aren’t really concerned with facts. They think if you vaccinate a 10 year old she’ll go out and have sex with the school basketball team.
I’m guessing it is not a pretty picture and not one that any of us want to see. Let us all do whatever we can to help the folks that we can when and where we find them.
Tiller’s abortion mill crimes are not just minor infractions. He is illegally killing viable babies - like the ones you see in the news going home after a few weeks in neonatal intensive care. This is clearly infanticide, and eyewitness reports from Tiller’s parking lot show that he is still scheduling illegal post-viable abortions.His favorite method of killing post-viable babies (digoxin/induction) is to inject poison in the heart, then induce the mother to deliver a dead baby 3 to 5 days later, a very high-risk abortion. One baby lived 5 years after Tiller mistakenly injected poison in the side of her head, but she was blind and disabled all of her short life. That was just one of this quack’s brutal murders. There are also frequent ambulance runs when botched abortions endanger the mothers, who suffer emergency surgery, transfusions, infections, hysterectomies, and other terrible problems.This all would have been stopped by now, but Tiller’s blood-stained profits have bought off Sedgwick County District Judge Paul Clark, DA Nola Foulston, Attorney General Morrison, and others in state government.Justice delayed is justice denied.http://chargetiller.com
Parkay is back with its tales of “eyewitness reports from the parking lot.” Again, I maintain that Dr. Tiller has never performed an abortion in a parking lot.
Parkay, you are seriously full of it. What part of LEGAL do you not understand?
Parkay, can you provide one instance where Tiller killed a baby? Since nuts like you think a fertilized egg equals a baby I doubt you have much credibility.
Oh dear, check out the group that sponsors that link.
They want to send women back to the 17th century.
http://www.womeninfluencingthenation.com/
Pmom, all the position papers on that site are written by men…holy crap.
Hmmm, I’m sending documents to the Kansas Election Commission about Mark Gietzen’s filing of false election documents.
http://www.maggotpunks.com/mp.html
He’s the head of Kansas Coalition for Life and a good friend of Troy Newman of Operation Rescue. He expects women to raise children but he can’t even pay his taxes that would support these children. Lovely moral authorities we have in the leaders of the anti-abortion movement.
I’m not at all surprised considering that the head of “concerned women for America” is also a male!
CWA I think is mostly protestant, this one is mainly Catholic. At least now we’ve got warring factions on exactly HOW is God’s way to be a good breeder, incubator and slave to their men.
OH OH you have to read the one about contraception. The writer takes Sean Hannity as a liberal!
See? This is the problem…no one can rationally discuss this issue, just one jab and put down after another. Because I called Jed on his story..after he told a completely different version of the same event last year….I’m accused of trying to kill Tiller. I’m SO sick of all the extreme ranting by both sides.Doug, how is it that those on your side scream about how outrageous it is that someone made an attempt on Tiller’s life, when killing others is what HE does for a living…isn’t that just a LITTLE hypocritical? By the way, when he got shot, it was the prolifers that came to his rescue and provided first aid while he waited for the ambulance.
I don’t think Mary is trying to kill Tiller.
For the record.
But you also can’t expect him to do his job and be constantly bombarded with those who cry for his head all the time- and you hang around with those people- or are at least sympathetic.
You’ve readily admitted that abortion is unpleasant but necessary…which is how I feel about it. Nobody cheers for abortion.
Actually, if you read the bible, it statest that life begins at the “quickening” which is when a woman feels movement from the baby - usually around 4 months of pregnancy.
It’s semantics, all of it. Personally, for MYSELF, I don’t agree with abortion (obviously as I am a single mother raising my son on my own) but I ALSO don’t think it’s my place to tell anyone else what they should or should not do. “judge not lest ye be judged”. They will be the ones to face whatever reckoning may come, and only God gets to decide what is right and wrong on that day, not me, so I am sure not going to tell anyone whether it is right or wrong now. All I can do is make MY personal choice. And for all the OR people screaming and driving around vans with mutilated pictures of babies on them, if you don’t think you aren’t going to be dealing with a few repercussions YOURSELVES come judgement day, well, I fear you are sadly mistaken.
Far be for me to tell anybody what to do with their own body, although we do that all the time we prostitution laws, drug laws, etc. However, at some point, it is no longer the woman’s body that is being cut up. At that point, that body deserves state protection. I am not JUDGING anyone either in the eternal sense or the physical world. I believe in protecting all citizens, whether they are breathing on their own or not.
Gosh, abortion is STILL LEGAL after all these years….
Mary, I dont think you tried to kill Tiller either. I think you are a very reasonable person with a good heart.
But some fundamentalist wack job DID try to kill TILLER. For doing what was LEGAL. Laws? They just dont apply for the fundies I guess.
wack jobs are wack jobs. Wacksjobs tried to kill Tiller, wackjobs kill JohnLennon, Wackjobs tried to kill Ford and Reagan, get over trying to identify wackjobs that want to kill abortionists with anybody but wackjobs
Uh, I think the term FUNDAMENTALIST WACK JOB certainly applies to those who want to subvert the free market and stop a business that is operating legally in this state. Namely, the practice of Dr. Tiller.
Damn communists should just get a job! (Tip o’ the hat to fleetie)
No, i think you are trying to link those who disagree with abortion with those who shoot abortionists.And as far as those trying to subvert the free market blah blah blah, being identified as fundamentalist wack jobs, perhaps you should tagthe NAACP for trying to stop the sale of little vases with flowers that CAN be used for other things, or those trying to shut down the payday loan businesses. Yes?
See, but the problem is that the LAW doesn’t recognise life as beginning until after birth…
So where does life begin littlejohn? Care to enlighten me? Is it like the bible says, with quickening? Is it when the LAW says, at birth? Is it when conservatives say, at conception? Is it like many others, who believe that the point at which a child can survive outside the womb?
Where do YOU draw the line, and why is it that YOUR view is the right one, instead of one of the millions of other views?
Wendy-
I recognize the complexity and the disagreement about when life begins. I will give you my definition, and I think it is the right one becaue it is logical, and can be defined by medical science. My logic goes something like this:
We know when life ends. Legally, it is at that point when certain brainwaves no longer exist, or are manifest. It is at that point, that death can be declared and the body can be kept physically alive for the purpose of organ harvesting. I know this because I have been present when those decisions are made. They are never easy, because the person “looks” alive. Anyway. the defintiion of death is the cessation of life. Therefore, since we can know when life ends, ie the abscence of these brain waves, the when life begins should be at the point those brain waves begin. Prior to that point is conjecture and perhaps your theological frame of mind. After that, well it is human, it has it’s own individual dna, and it has, in my mind, demonstrated life because it is no longer “dead”Therefore, it should be protected.That’s it.
That’s good in theory littlejohn - but the problem with that is that there is no way to determine at what point brain activity (which seems to be your standard for life) or even per se, what LEVEL of brain activity, begins, because current testing does not allow for the interference of the mothers brain waves…
So really, we have no way of knowing, until the two are SEPERATE ENTITIES, whether or not “life” by your definition, has begun.
We do have theories of when brain activity begins, but again, at what level is your determination made, and what proof do we have that it actually occurs at that point, and if it is actually occuring in that specific instance in which a woman is seeking an abortion…
It’s simply too open ended. That’s why I stick with the “it’s none of my business, I will worry about me and let other people worry about themselves” philosophy as far as abortion is concerned.
Wendy,You raise some valid questions, for which I do not have an answer off the top of my head. i do think the point at which those brain waves exist can be determined, but further research is necessary on my part to show you the reference. However, I think it is your business, just as it is your business, through the state, whenever injury to others occur.My standard is to when life ends, and begins. I understand abortion is a sensitive, very personal issue. It is my desire to take the emotion out of it, and at least reasonably discuss it to come up with some sort of compromise. Yelling at each othe Yes I Can, No You Can’t solves nothing, and wastes a good amount of time, energy, and money. I do not support the radicals of Operation Rescue, nor the radicals and financially dependent of Planned Parenthood. We must seek solutions
Wendy:Scripturally, the Bible says that life begins before the baby is formed. (Jeremiah 1:5).Scientifically, medical evidence shows the heartbeat begins 22 days after conception, implying minimal controlling brain/nervous system activity to control the heartbeat at that point.Legally, 2 judges have ruled there is sufficient evidence to charge Tiller with illegally killing several viable babies (past 22 weeks gestation). Prior to that point in a baby’s development, Kansas law is woefully inadequate in restricting abortionist quacks from victimizing mothers, fathers, and babies.
The embryo/fetus is alive and abortion is about killing and removing the embryo/fetus so it will never be born…that’s the truth. If it wasn’t alive, it wouldn’t grow and develop. Abortion may be neccesary in certain situations, but that doesn’t diminish what it really is. Those who believe that life only begins at birth are in denial. I don’t know, maybe that keeps them from feeling badly about it.Abortion is legal…but war is legal, the death penalty is legal, in Oregon, physican assisted suicide is legal….but it’s still killing…just because it’s legal, that shouldn’t diminish what it is.The question isn’t really about the “right to choose”, but about the right to kill or prevent someone else from having a life…who would have a life if left alone.
The whole WHEN LIFE BEGINS argument isn’t even valid here. The problem is that the woman is the incubator and it is her body that is affected, every cell of it.
And her life is more important. It’s her risk, her life. That is the ultimate bottom line.
I never felt like my life was more important than my kid’s lives…before or after they were born.Maybe that’s the problem with our world today..too much “me” and not enough “you”.
Sometimes those women ARE thinking of their kids first. Either the ones they already have, or the one they’re carrying.
I’d say the majority of women seeking abortions are not thinking of the child’s needs first.If you have a healthy fetus, why not give it a chance at life and adopt it to someone who can’t have their own? I once heard that there are no unwanted babies, only misplaced ones. I know people who were adopted out at birth and were very grateful their birth mothers gave them a chance at life. I know that’s not always the case, but too many babies are not given the chance when it would be a possiblity to do so.Like I said before, I think abortion has to stay legal, but I think we could also change our hearts and focus on solutions to unwanted pregnancies other than throwing them away. For every abortion, there is a person who is not getting a chance at life.We’ve become so disconnected to anything but quick and easy answers to any discomfort in our country, and we’re not better people because of it.It seems in many ways we’ve become so selfish.
“Like I said before, I think abortion has to stay legal, but I think we could also change our hearts and focus on solutions to unwanted pregnancies other than throwing them away.”
I certainly agree with that Mary. I find it difficult to believe anyone here does NOT agree with that.
Except for the hard core operation rescue folks. And I know that YOU are NOT one of them!
The majority of mothers who commit abortion, about 2/3, are under some type of coercion, ranging from eviction to job termination to threats, assaults, and attempted murder. That’s what mothers usually think about in abortion mills, and it’s a terrible abuse of women.
Just when the discussion between Pmom, Farmgrrl, and Mary was turning reasonable, Parkay jumps in with his nonsense. Parkay, if you have proof that 2/3rds of the women seeking abortion are there because of coercion, let’s see it. And the rantings of Troy Newman don’t count, so don’t even start there.
Tom:Cases, facts, and statistics on unwanted and coerced abortions:http://www.unfairchoice.info/unwanted.htm
Good one, Parkay. Too bad Reardon and the Rues, the people behind that website, are all well-known anti-abortion activists, not scientists.
The primary study cited is mostly of Russian women, not American. Futhermore, the American women included in the survey were self-selected. An excerpt from the methodology:
“In all cases, respondents were informed of the following: (1) that their participation in the research was voluntary; (3) that they had the right to refuse participation and that non-participation would notinfluence their healthcare; (4) that they had the right todiscontinue participation in the research at any point; andDue to funding and staff limitations, no data were collected on women who chose not to participate.”
You cannot conduct a scientific or statistical study where the participants are self-selected. Sorry. Try again.
Tom:I have a study to back up my estimate of the number of coerced abortions. If you don’t like it, put out your own estimate with another study to back it up.The point is, we have testimony from abortionist Tiller’s victims, intended victims, and their relatives that Tiller is routinely committing coerced abortions, especially on minors, and the disabled, like deceased Down Syndrome rape victim Christin Gilbert, dead in January, 2005 from a botched, high-risk, late-term, illegal abortion in Tiller’s abortion mill.We want Tiller prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned for his crimes of illegal post-viable abortions, coerced abortions, and other crimes to be presented in evidence. We are not a lynch mob waiting to kill Tiller. We want justice in court, and we will get it, one way or another.
Parkay,
You didn’t cite a *study.* You cited *propaganda.* I don’t have to refute propaganda with a study, or even with more propaganda. All I have to do is call it what it is.
But thanks for playing.