When Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., declared "this war is lost" last week, he was standing a few feet from state Sen. Donald Betts (in photo), D-Wichita, sponsor of legislation in Kansas calling for a change in course in Iraq. At the event in Washington, D.C., Reid and fellow Democratic Sens. Ted Kennedy and Sherrod Brown meant to call attention to the 29 states in which legislatures have taken up measures opposing President Bush’s troop surge. (Betts’ resolution only got as far as a Kansas Senate hearing in February.) But Reid’s poor choice of words has gotten most of the attention. The Kansas Republican Party called on Betts to apologize, saying his standing next to Reid "shows an apparent lack of respect for the sacrifice of the military men and women." Oh, please.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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64 Comments
Senator Donald Betts rocks.
Should every Republican currently in office who has stood next to Nixon apologize? Should every Republican currently in office who stood next to Randy Cunningham apologize? Those guys are *criminals,* not merely controversial.
This is nothing more than Kris Kobach grandstanding and trying to discredit anyone he disagrees with.
How typical.
Maybe BushCo should apologize for miring them in this mess.
“Poor choice of words?”
By golly, you’re right.
Reid should have said “This illegal, immoral, and unwinnable war is lost.”
and add “because of the incredible ineptitude of those in charge”
You know, that’s funny because I saw the tv stuff and I thought, wow, that guy looks just like Don Betts! What a coincidence! :)
I totally agree that Don Betts rocks and we are very lucky to have him in Kansas. Our state’s future is in good hands with him.
And Rhonda, good on YOU for saying oh please! I love the smell of wingnut desperation when just standing next to big bad harry reid is cause for apology.
But Rhonda, I’d go farther. I’d say “jesus WEPT”! Then I’d get out the fainting couch for myself :)
No kidding. Republicans are yet again avoiding the big picture, and trying to discredit anybody against the Iraq war (which now happens to be the majority of the population) by using the “they-do-not-support-our-troops” blame game.The best way to support our troops is by bringing them home to their families from this unjust war. Our men and women in the armed forces deserve better than to have innocent peoples’ blood on their hands.
Met Senator Betts once, he was very polite and er… the “a” word. Sounds like a photo op that the press took advantage.
“A” word?
“and er… the ‘a’ word.”
What are your trying to say?
your=you
He was well spoken Steven. He was therefore… “a” word.
That is, of course, an insult to a member of a minority because it infers that he may not have been. Republican is showing very good judgment to avoid paying such an offensive compliment.
OMG outlander. If he wasnt trying to bait anyone, he just would have avoided the word altogether. But he was too clever by half, as usual. GHe thinks he can be very clear about the word he is using but sill allow for “plausable deniability” that he never used the word.
Typical republican. How’s that “plausable deniability” working for you all?
Big eye roll.
Not to speak for him, but I think that Republican was poking fun at those that really might think it offensive.
The Republican press release is just plain insulting.
==================
“State Senator Betts standing behind the Senate Majority Leader in a show of support for his comments shows an apparent lack of respect for the sacrifice of the military men and women serving this county. State Senator Betts has consistently showed his contempt for our military’s service. He has once again failed to recognize that Kansans are proud of our military men and women.”
“State Senator Betts actions show once again that the liberal Democrat agenda is out of touch with real Kansans. He should apologize immediately for his actions.”
==================
Why are they trying to tear Betts down? Are they afraid of him for some reason?
Hmmmm?
I thought the same thing Tom. Everytime I’ve brought up Sen. Betts, the wingnuts here go crazy.
I do think they are afraid of his leadership abilities, his honesty, his courage, and his intelligence. I think they are afraid he will run for and win higher office.
We should be so lucky. From their lips to god’s ears :)
Betts is not dumb enough to fall into that load of GOP crap.
The smell of flop sweat in the morning
All you have to do is talk to Don Betts and figure out that he is a nice and polite young man. Unfortunately he is a follower and does very little on his own. The Democrat party says jump and Don Betts jumps. He doesn’t ask why he just does as he is told without any information as to why.
It probably explains why he has gone out of the country for an arranged marriage.
Well, THAT wingnut response was predictable.
Nice try, but Betts has always been a stand up guy and a leader. He has not hesitated to buck governor leadership or hensley or mckinney if he thought they were wrong.
And little timmy huelskamp’s leadership? Eh… not so much. He just does what terry, joe and fred tell him.
Of course, you wouldnt be implying that Betts “serves his masters” now would you?
Hmmmm…… Nope. Even a one hit poster like you wouldnt stoop that low. Would you?
thefacts my royal red…..
speaking of load of gop crap
“It probably explains why he has gone out of the country for an arranged marriage.”
Damn, now THAT is a low blow. Arranged marriage? WTF?
I just love how the wingnuts support marriage. Except when they dont. Jesus WEPT!
Damn, it’s hard to be a republican pimp these days.
From blaming Bill Clinton for the current DOJ troubles to saying Betts just does what he is told.
Ever single wingnut poster here has jumped the shark today.
Betts isn’t married, at least not yet. I know he’s been dating an Australian woman for quite a while now. That hardly sounds like an “arranged marriage” to me.
Speaking of Australia, isn’t that one of our partners in the Iraq Coalition? Isn’t their prime minister one of Bush’s closest allies?
Isn’t it ironic that “thefacts” is attacking people from a country Bush depends on?
I’m betting five bucks that “thefacts” is one of our regular posters. Someone should grow a pair and post under their real name.
Heh! Laughing again. “Out of the county”? “Arranged marriage”? When he dated someone from Australia? I didnt know that but it figures the wingnuts would be desperate enough to smear Betts with something so trivial.
There you have the “facts”.
They are LEAPING the shark today.
Tom, dont you just love that they think we are picking on them as individuals, so changing nics will somehow throw us off or make them more credible?
When all along, we are roasting their dumbass POSTS, not them in particular. And the worst nic switcher always think we wont know.
heheheheheheeheheh!
Republican’s smart-a$$ed crack is a way to make a racist joke while at the same time protesting in wide-eyed mock innocence that “HE’S not GASP! racist.”
One can halfway forget what a consummate a$$hole Republican is, until he once again reminds everyone.
I think the “a” word was a reference to “articulate”, from the remark about Obama being “articulate and clean”.
Betts is my Senator and lives in my district. I’ve talked to him before for about five minutes on this and that.
Looks like the Democratic Liberals are a little low on humor these days.
BTW, there is no one, no where that can make me stop saying ‘articulate’ to describe someone.
Or did you forget freedom of speech?
Just because Obama freaked out and took offense, doesn’t mean the rest of the Black community has to dweeb out.
Obama didn’t freak out, jerk off. Barack never criticized Biden for the comment. Stop making shit up.
So… why didnt you just use the word articulate instead of being cutesy about it?
I think the problem was the ‘clean’ comment more than the articulate comment.
If Bett’s is using the Iraq war as a launching pad to run against Tiahrt, he needs to find another issue, we are still in Kansas aren’t we?
“If Bett’s is using the Iraq war as a launching pad to run against Tiahrt”
Oh, I see now. The REAL republican fear is given voice!
Told ya.
“we are still in Kansas aren’t we?
Yes indeedy we are. But I wonder…
When did wholesale depletion and exhaustion of the Kansas National Guard become a “kansas” value?
When did unchecked corruption and corporate war profiteering become a Kansas value?
When did lying become a Kansas value?
Just curious you know.
Didn’t realize that ‘depletion and exhaustion’ of our Kansas Nation Guard had happened so can’t give you an answer for the first question.
“Unchecked corruption and corporate war profiteering’That is what happened with Feinstein lined the pockets of her family business with billions of tax payers dollars.
And Farmie, I guess lying became a value when you embraced it. Did i get the answer right?
Just trying to pass your little test.
WIth Sen. Reid’s comment that “the war in Iraq is lost”, he should be censured for that statement with troops in the field.
Talk about giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
Has anyone noticed that everytime we step it up, the Dems bitch about it and oppose it, and then we get a bunch of bombings from the insurgents?
When you set timetavbles you aid the enemy. When you call for troops to come home, you aid the enemy.
Simple.
Dems aid the enemy!!!
I think durden needs a cookie asap.
Germie I dont lie. I apologized for making a mistake. That is what you say when bush lies. He made a mistake.
If the Kansas National Guard is not depleted and exhausted, why are kansas congress critters pounding away for help in replenishing equipment and asking for shorter, not longer Guard rotations?
And as for Feinstein, I think you didnt answer my questions from this morning. All this wrongdoing you claim supposedly occurred while REPUBLICANS had control of congress.
You think if she was involved in corruption they WOULDNT have charged her? If she was involved, why didnt the REPUBLICANS charge her?
She hasnt even been charged or indicted. And, as the preznit says, the USAs are under his control. If she is doing wrong, why dont the USAs at the DOJ nail her on it?
Just allegations germie. And she resigned her position on that subcommittee without being charged. Tom Dely? He waited until he was indicted to resign.
So now, you wanna talk about Halliburton and the no bid contracts? Or do you just wanna make up stuff about Feinstein? Whatever.
Please, keep on spinning those tales. Even if they make no logical sense…
“Dems aid the enemy!!!”
I’m telling ya, it’s a wingnut contest for who can jump the most sharks today.
betts is running against tiahrt, mark my words.
and he will lose by 25 points.
Farmie she just resigned – after the dems took control. A liberal San Francisco newspaper unearthed it. The ethics committee should be all over this – instead they allowed her to resign and stay on the committee.
It stinks. I was a Feinstein fan but no more. She did the exact thing when she exempted the American Samoas from the new minimum wage guidelines (which hasn’t passed either). Guess who is the largest employer on the island – none other than a Feinstein owned tuna processing factory.
JPAU as I said last week. Get off the AG’s back and do something productive. That is my message to the congress and senate.
Farmie I think you get the he prize for most sharks jumped today. You are the top wingnut!!!(just for today you have to requalify tomorrow).
Cap I think they are grooming either Betts or Goyle. I still haven’t figured out why Raj would take a job that nets less than $12,000 a year unless he had big plans.
Looks like the Democratic Liberals are a little low on humor these days.Posted by: Republican | April 23, 2007 at 04:41 PM
There’s nothing funny – nothing at all – about the language used in Kris Kobach’s Republican Party press release. There’s nothing funny about accusing a state Senator of holding our Kansas National Guard in “contempt.”
It’s flat-out character assassination, and whichever of our regs posted as “thefacts” piled on with *more* character assassination.
I’d like to challenge “thefacts,” since he thinks he has facts, to grow some balls and be public about who he is, instead of hiding behind a fake nic and a fake email address.
“I still haven’t figured out why Raj would take a job that nets less than $12,000 a year unless he had big plans. ”
I know many people who take a pay cut because they believe in what they are doing. Perhaps Goyle, unlike his predecessor in that office, does not feel the need to constantly grub for money.
Ksgrm,
Raj Goyle is an attorney and a lecturer at WSU. He has sources of income other than State Representative.
By your logic, every single state representative and state senator is in this for some nefarious reason. Keep in mind that 30 of the 40 Senators are Republicans and 78 of the 125 Representatives are Republicans too. According you, each and every one of your people is up in Topeka merely as a stepping stone to some other office.
Yeah right.
ksgrm,
“she exempted the American Samoas from the new minimum wage guidelines”
You should do some research. The Samoan govt asked for the exemption.
Harry Reid’s poor choice of words? Yes, by all means, let’s shoot the messenger for telling the truth.
And while we’re at it, let’s give McCain a pass for joking about bombing Iraq. IOKIYAR.
Harry Reid needs to get with the program. Keep the American people in the dark so we can keep their brave troops bogged down fighting a civil war in Iraq. This way we can strengthen throughout the world!
Thank you George Bush; me and my oil buddies in Saudi Arabia owe you a debt of gratitude. You have destroyed our enemies and given us great recruiting tools.
I just LOVE the way you managed to convince so many people in your country that my mortal enemy was my friend. Thanks again!
(By the way, my cousins will continue to sell you oil)
How did Reid misspeak? Did he misspeak like Bush when he declared “Mission Accomplished”? Or was Reid referring to the civil war in Iraq, over 3,100 dead Americans and over 650,000 dead Iraqis? Or was he referring to the fact that Iraq has no army that is supposed to take our place when we leave. Or is he referring to the second “surge” plan that failed to make much of a difference? Or did he refer to the powerless Iraqi ruling council that is falling apart? Or did he refer to the polls where a majority of Americans and Iraqis don’t want America in Iraq?
Sounds like Reid was dead on and voiced the views of the majority of Americans who agree with him.
“Farmie she just resigned – after the dems took control”
Uh, germie? I think that is what I said. She resigned, without being under indictment. And Tom Delay? Eh…not so much.
And, as I said, all of her supposed wrongdoing took place during the REPUBLICAN control of both houses of congress, the presidency, and the DOJ.
And none of them caught it? It wasnt until the DEMOCRATS took control that it came to light? And she’s a DEMOCRAT?
And exactly WHO was asleep at the switch? The congressional “ethics” were so screwed up that the republicans, while in control, didnt even keep tabs on the democrats, much less their own party?
But if you want to play tit for tat, lets talk about jack abramoff and bob ney. Let’s talk about randy cunningham and his corruption. Let’s talk about tom delay and his corruption.
I could go on here, but why? Feinstein has yet to be charged with anything, unlike the repukes listed above who have been convicted.
Are you sure you and paul rossell dont compare notes? Because both of you sure like to use that “everyone else is doing it too” meme excuse.
I wonder if that flies with germie when her grandkids do that?
So now poindexter is afraid of Don Betts too? Anyone wanna bet he posted the lie and smear against the good senator yesterday?
Heheheheheheh. I guess Betts and Goyle are the ones the bedwetters fear most. Good to know that.
Oh, and poindexter? Here is a little tip for you. SOMEONE will run against the incumbent toady.
But you wont get to pick the person. There is this little thing called the democratic primary…
Heheheheheh. Just like BON BON, I think toddy will be GONE GONE!
Hell, I think a YELLOW DOG could beat the toadster next time.
Oh, and for Mr. Toady?
Feet, meet fire. Get used to it.
Feet, meet fire. Get used to it.Posted by: ksfarmgrrl | April 24, 2007 at 09:06 AM
I’ll buy the matches.
Oh, and instead of the lies, smear, and personal attacks the repukes have starte against the good senator (Swiftboating anyone?) when he hasnt announced anything…
…let’s talk about FACTS and the incumbent repuke. You know, the “Tiahrt Amendment”. Google it. Toddy wants federal authorities to be… wait for it…
FORBIDDEN BY LAW TO SHARE INFORMATION ON ILLEGAL GUNS WITH LOCAL AUTHORITIES!
Now let THAT sink in for a minute.
The reason we needed the Patriot Act and other laws violating our privacy, was, according to republicans, because law enforcement agencies weren’t sharing enough information among themselves.
The feds needed extraordinary powers to keep track of the wabbits, uh, I mean, terrorist, their purchases, (like guns) their habits, (like guns) their contacts, (like gun dealers) etc.
And now? In this current atmosphere of fear, Toady wants to make it HARDER for the feds to share info with local authorities?
WTF?
Only from a kansas republican could such lunacy spring!
Heheheh Tom. Hell, I’d rub two sticks together over kindling if that is what it took to toast toddy’s toes. :)
And before you gun nuts get your panties in a knot and send a lynch mob after me, I do not want to take away your guns. As I have said multiple times, I own and use guns of my own.
But there are bad actors who have guns, buy guns, and circumvent the current gun laws. Why make it easier to perpetuate the ILLEGAL gun trades?
The Tiahrt amendment does seem counterintuitive, doesn’t it, until one hears the congressman talk about it (from this a.m. drive on KNSS); the purpose of the amendment is to limit the exchange of the information to the locals so as to discourage litigation against the manufacturers in the big cities concerned about illegal gun sales. The above is a paraphrase from memory of what I heard on the way in to work.
http://www.grandlodgefop.org/servlet/display/news_article?id=411&XSL=xsl_pages%2fpublic_news_individual.xsl&nocache=9875590
http://www.goal.org/PS/tiahrt%20facts.pdf
For those who would rather not get their news and analysis from kfg, here is information on the bill from the the Fraternal Order of Police, (FOP) who strongly support the Tiahrt amendment.
Vaughn,
Discourage litigation against manufacturers in the big cities? Interesting.
My question for Congressman Tiahrt (and I know his staff reads this blog ::waves::) is this: Why is Tiahrt representing big out-of-state gun interests instead of 4th District Kansans who are the victims of gun violence?
Tiahrt seems to be pretty damn good at taking care of his big donors. Citizens of Wichita? Not so much.
I have it on good information that Donald Betts’ fiance is actually a spy from Kansans for Life. She just pretends to be from overseas to fool the Senator. When they are married, she will turn him pro-life!
outlander, I am aware of the FOP support for the amendment. The excerpt heard on KNSS this morning made the curious (to me) argument which was in form and substance close to who do you want investigating gun crimes; the local police or Mayor Bloomberg? Now, I want the local police, to be sure; but why cannot they have access to information concerning the origin of the weapon in the process of their investigation? It seems to me that if the original sale was criminal, and the ultimate use of the weapon was criminal, there were two crimes committed; surely we, as a body politic, would want both crimes investigated, would we not?
BTW, I am hard pressed to imagine a situation where Mayor Bloomberg would be involved in the investigation of a crime commited with a weapon in Wichita, Kansas, as I am sure he is busy with issues in New York City.
“why cannot they have access to information concerning the origin of the weapon in the process of their investigation?” VT
Vaughn: I am far from an expert on this but as I understand it, the 2007 version of the Tiahrt amendment does not prohibit sharing this information between law enforcement agencies, rather it limits disclosure only to law enforcement agencies for use in criminal investigations.
Outlander,
If your characterization of the Tiahrt amendment is correct, that begs the question: Why are my emails available for free, warrantless fishing expeditions, but records of gun sales are not?
Does Tiahrt actually understand that the pen IS mightier than the sword?
outlander, your characterization of the amendment makes sense to me in light of the Congressman’s comments. I also don’t know much about it, but, if what you say is correct, and I’ve no reason to doubt it, then again, it is a limit on disclosure of the information to non-law enforcement personnel rather than a bar on the sharing of the information in the LE community.
This then raises the question of whether the amendment, which I admit I’ve not read, has limits on the disclosure in a trial, as generally, records of trials are public information. I don’t know the answer, but I can see I need to educate myself further here before making any additional comments.
Having read the links outlander provided, I think I’ve got an understanding of what’s going on with the amendment. I’m not sure I totally understand the whole thing, but clearly it (the amendment) doesn’t prohibit information sharing in investigations, prosecutions, or administrative proceedings conducted by BATFE. What it does do is keep the “trace information” private, which, on balance, I agree with.
There is still a nagging question I have concerning the potential civil suits of which I have read concerning the liability, if any, of gun manufacturers “flooding” the market in states such as, but not limited to, Virginia, with knowledge that criminals from New York City will travel to such state to purchase firearms which cannot be lawfully purchased and owned in New York City, then bring the same back for use in their criminal enterprises. Should not this information be made available to the municipalities through discovery in civil litigation brought to ascertain if such liability exists? The way I read the explanation of the amendment, it is not so discoverable.
“the purpose of the amendment is to limit the exchange of the information to the locals so as to discourage litigation against the manufacturers in the big cities concerned about illegal gun sales.”
Why IS Tiahrt protecting big gun manufacturers?
“I am far from an expert on this but as I understand it, the 2007 version of the Tiahrt amendment does not prohibit sharing this information between law enforcement agencies, rather it limits disclosure only to law enforcement agencies for use in criminal investigations.”
Outlander, could you please explain why infomation in a criminal case should NOT be used in a civil case?
That would have prevented the Brown and Goldman families from EVER touching OJ. Why is that a good thing.
I know all this is designed to protect gun manufacturers.
I dont want to pick on gun mfg either, but why is it a good thing for them to not be responsible for their products? We certainly hold other mfgers responsible for THEIR products.
Why the special treatment for guns.
And I still see nothing good about ANYTHING that limits the sharing of infomation about crimes and criminals.
Isnt that what the patriot act is all about? To generate and share information?
Tiahrt’s “I heart guns” amendment isnt just counter intuitive. It is counterproductive on its face.
I wish to clarify something I posted this morning; while Congressman Tiahrt alluded to “illegal gun sales”, I believe he was referring to sales in a jurisdiction which would be legal in such jurisdiction but which would not be permitted (in whole or in part) within the jurisdiction seeking to impose liablility on the manufacturere through a civil suit. I believe Mrage, in an earlier thread, mentioned this; I’ve read about it in other contexts.
The issue is one of whether the manufacturers of firearms intentionally “oversell” to the states with less restrictive laws with knowledge that the oversupply will be purchased by residents of other states with more restrictive laws, perhaps to be utilized in criminal activity. This presents a tough burden of proof on any plaintiff bringing such an action, and, if the “trace” information would be obtainable through discovery in civil litigation, such information might (I again say might) provide evidence of such intent/knowledge.
Well, HELL, Vaughn, we couldnt have THAT now could we?