President Bush promised another veto of the latest embryonic stem-cell bill, which passed the Senate Wednesday with a majority just shy of veto-proof and without the support of Kansas Sens. Sam Brownback and Pat Roberts. The Senate, with both Kansans’ votes, also approved legislation promoting research using adult stem cells; Brownback, who had warned colleagues that “embryonic stem cells are forming tumors,” touted the adult stem-cell bill by showing posters of beneficiaries of such treatments, including a Parkinson’s sufferer who, on safari, “scrambled up a tree to avoid being run over by a rhino.”
But as states pursue their own publicly funded embryonic stem-cell research, shouldn’t the federal government exercise some oversight and coordination? And as opponents overlook the 61 percent public support for this research, they never sufficiently explain why it’s preferable to see unused embryos destroyed than see them serve potentially lifesaving cures.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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35 Comments
As was explained to me recently, one of the known up sides to Embryonic stem cells over adult stem cells is their ability to be used more then once. But as to why there is not more private funding is that as of yet there is no proven better benefit of embryonic stem cells over adult. All that is known is that much of what could be achieved by using the embryonic can be done with adult.
But why it is the argument against their usage while their fate is to be destroyed anyway is still silly to me.I pointed out that to the gentle man that informed me as to the above. He reply was one step at a time.Otherwise saying that in the future there may very well be a drive to no longer destroy them but then allow for them natural death. Afterward perhaps a limit on the number of fertilized embryos allow to be kept. Though it would draw out the process if artificial insinuation, it would then do away with the moral and ethical issue of what to do with the unused embryos.
Mr. Brownback has the right, as do all who have such biblical reservations, to refuse any treatments that may arise from stem cells. Why then, does he find it so necessary to inflict his horribly sado/masochistic religious practices on all those whose suffering might be alleviated by this research?
The Democrats should be smart and attach the bill to the war spending bill. Bush will not veto it then.
Rhonda,Do you really honestly believe that all those in the 61 percent you mention are truly informed with factual information; or perhaps influenced by 95 percent of the media and others like Michael J. Fox who intentionally group or conveniently don’t differentiate stem cell research (embryonic and adult) when proclaiming to the uninformed; the “potential” of ESCR.
Why is that left out? Why aren’t the facts put out there of the true results of the embryonic research (which are frightening) verses the already available treatments and cures from adult stem cells?
Why doesn’t the media cover the breakthroughs they are finding with adult stem cells? For example the Type 1 diabetes cure found in Brazil this week? Or 60 plus uses of adult stem cells and umbilical cord blood cell treatments and cures?
Why do they always use “potential” when referring to ESCR? Why are they excited about potential when things are so out of control when they use ESC?
Maybe you can change this situation Rhonda.
We knew brownback would vote no. I hope Kansans hold Roberts to account in the next election cycle for all the partisan crap he’s pulled.
Yawn…Didn’t we just have this discussion 2 days ago? Short on topics, I guess. Well, ditto what I said two days ago. Embryonic stem cell research is all politics and little, if any progress.
Adult stem cells and stem cells from amniotic fluid are more suited to research and cures, without the moral questions. Why go there if you don’t have to?
Sorry to disappoint TAG and outlander, but the most significant benefit of ES cells, that AS cells cannot be used for, is the generation of complex organs (composed of two or more types of cells). Indeed, even a functional pancreas has been produced with ES cells that rescue diabetic mice. These lab-grown organs have alpha cells (for producing glucagon), beta cells (insulin) and neurons (for CNS control). Considering that ES cell research began in the las 8 years, while AS research started in the 1950s, I think you ought to give it some time to mature.
Of course, there’s an easier way around this. Let’s approve nuclear transfer from adult cells to enucleated egg cells. Then we might not have to generate more ES cell lines. But I guess you anti-cloning folks would freak out about that, too.
Because after all, why listen to medical experts when you have a pro-life ideologue to explain it to you . . .
Stem cells injected into paralyzed rats allowed them to walk again.
That breakthrough trumps the “right-to-life” of an eight day old fetus without a brain and which will be destroyed anyway IMHO.
The Senate is right to pass this on. Let the voters of Kansas see their fundamentalist Bush whore Senators for what they are . . .
Rats and Mice. Medical experts vs a pro-life ideologue, hmmm.
I’ll stick with the pro-life ideologue any day of the week.
I wouldn’t play cards with that deck either Capn. That’s pretty sick logic. Maybe you could find a clone of SciGuy to play.
Why can’t these “breakthroughs” be funded privately instead of with tax money?
Don’t force it on people who don’t agree with it. They are the ones who wouldn’t accept that “treatment” anyway.
Heh, let me guess, TAG.
Spinal cord injures resulting in paralysis are “God’s will”?
God doesn’t will suffering. He’s available to those who do. And also to those who care for them.
That’s a good question though.
The left likes public opinion when that opinion is formed by THEM and is on THEIR side.When has the Eagle ever reported on the advances of NON-Embryonic Stem Cell research?When ANY stem cell “cure” is mentioned, the liberal media bury the fact that the advance happened using NO government money and that only ADULT stem cells were used.This is a non-issue, medically.Politics is being injected into science and into the marketplace.Investors wont put their money into embryonic stem cell research, since that line of research has been a flop so far!The sole purpose of pushing Embryonic Stem Cells is to do what Hitler did: make the goulish seem beneficial!Yes, I brought up Hitler.It fits, in this case.If we travel down this road, we will soon be fertilizing eggs for the sole purpose of harvesting body parts.
So where are Aaron S, Fundie and Sooner Red? They trolled the other blog the MINUTE stem cell conversation started?
Do they only troll the other blog?
WHERE ARE THE TROLLS ON THIS THREAD?
They must be waiting on orders from the pope…
“If we travel down this road, we will soon be fertilizing eggs for the sole purpose of harvesting body parts.”
EVERYBODY PANIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like my eggs over easy, with rye toast.
TAG, are you referring to those on the left lik Sen Orin Hatch?
You are factually-incorrect in stating that stem cell research (of any kind) was not supported by Federal funds. Almost all of the early work was developed by support from the NIH through grants.
It also remains true that complex organs cannot be generated from adult stem cells without nuclear transfer. What’s your position on NT (i.e, “cloning”)?
It’s also hard to take your comments seriously when you compare the extraction of cells from 5-day old embyros that are destined to be destroyed to the things that Hitler did. Is it any more morally-acceptable to simply throw them away or keep them frozen indefinitely? What do you propose?
Bringing up Hitler is a bit over the top. On eugenics, I only need to bring up the State of Indiana…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070413/ap_on_re_us/eugenics_anniversary
I agree with farm girl. Where are all the Operation Rescue Catholic trolls on this thread?
SciGuy–
Thanks for your thoughtful posts.
When people start to panic over the cloning issue, I like to point out that nature creates clones all the time: we call them identical twins.
Duh.
TAG,”God doesn’t will suffering.”Hey, if you’re an omnipotent, omniscient, eternal being, the only thing you can’t do is avoid responsibility. If He has the power to stop suffering and refuses to, isn’t that the equivalent of willing it?
SciG, You confused my post somewhere. I didn’t say federal funding of any kind. I just don’t want funding if I choose not to use the effort of experimenting on the potential for life as it was intended.
Jed, God doesn’t will suffering. Think about it. He could stop it, yes; but weren’t you created in His image and has asked you to comfort, feed, care for??? There should be a church nearby where you live. You’re invited to go and open your heart. And if you ever suffer for any reason; you have something in common with Jesus.
Capn, nature didn’t create clones, that’s God doubling a miracle. Nature had nothing to do with it, He allowed that to happen. :0
Sciguy:The paralyzed rat walking is a decade-old feat for ethical adult stem cell research. Adult stem cell research has already produced beneficial treatments for spinal cord injuries in humans, something embryonic stem cell research cannot possibly do for decades, likely never. If we were to fall for your insistence on violating medical ethics, we would be robbing organs from condemned criminals and the hopelessly insane. That would eventually cure some people or prolong their life, but – the cost would be too high. That’s why we draw the line at the destruction of human life for research – it’s for the protection of us all. We’re all human, after all, and but for the grace of God, any of us might someday fall prey to ethics violations, if allowed.
Uh TAG,I spent seven years taking care of a friend with MS who rolled her wheelchair into her church and was told she must have committed a horrible sin for god to have punished her so severely. Then that church had the gall to campaign against the most promising research for her illness. You and your church can go f**k yourselves!
Jed, that’s too bad that happened.
Personally, I’ve never heard or seen anything like that in the Churches I’ve attended.
When I was still a boy there was a man in our Church named Charlie. Charlie had MS. Boys will be boys and one day me and my friends were downtown acting like fools, using curse words and generally being obnoxious.
I didn’t see him at first, but Charlie was watching us and I saw him watching. I felt very small when I saw his glance and wanted to hide, run away and was a little angry that I got caught in bad conduct.
The next Sunday, Charlie who always sat at the front of the church so he could see, wheeled his chair where I was sitting and said to me, “I’m praying for you.”
He tapped the top of my hand with his good hand and I could see the sparkle of sincerity in his eyes.
Charlie died when I was about nineteen. His kind words to me without accusation or admonishment opened my eyes that someone who suffered so much physically could be so compassionate.
And to those who know that yes I occasionally backslide into being the boy with the bad conduct I will try to think of Charlie’s prayer.
Thanks Jed for helping me evoke that memory.
Republican,I realize that not all christians are hateful people. To them I apologize. Unfortunately, I have seen considerably more than enough arrogance, prejudice, hypocrisy, lies and downright viciousness from both clergy and membership to ever want anything to do with a christianity. Until you as a group actually practice what you preach, you have no moral credibility. Please do not presume to dictate to the rest of us the standards by which we run our lives.
TAG: Sorry about that – my post of April 14, 2007 at 07:06 AM should have been directed to Econ101; I misread the post author name (above, instead of below).
Parkay:
No one is proposing to abandon the use of adult stem cells – they have demonstrated their utility sufficiently. But keep in mind, it took about 30 years of expenimentation before they were first used for treating disease (bone marrow transplantation) and had a high failure rate (i.e., death from no “take” or worse, graft vs. host disease) early on. But there are things that AS cells apparently cannot be used for – principally laboratory-derived organs and tissues. Both AS and ES cell research need to continue.
Just how am I suggesting we “insistence on violating medical ethics”? You seem to be suggesting that the use of embryos that are destined to be destroyed shouldn’t be used. Is it any more ethical to leave them frozen in a liquid nitrogen tank? Is is ethical to just throw them away? Should we start insisting that all in vitro-derived embyos be implanted into women so that babies can be born? You’re talking about 25 or so embryos per couple. Perhaps in vitro fertilization should be outlawed, too?
I am not suggesting, nor would I (nor most people) support the forced retrieval of organs from other humans. “Ethics” and “morality” depend a lot on one’s perspective.
Jed, you were Jesus to your friend. There’s no doubt, He’s in everyone. That building called a church that you attended with your friend is not the kind of building I’d want to be around if that’s what they say.
It may also be a long time before all Christians as a group all get on the same page; but we can hope someday.
Two wrongs don’t make a right in the case of using frozen embryos. I don’t have an opinion or answer on what to do with them.
Tag,No, I was just a friend, and I didn’t attend that church with her; that occurred before I met her.As for what to do with frozen embryos, the wrong would be discarding them when others could be helped. Same as with burying organs that would save others. Have you signed your donor card?
Jed, I’m a two time bone marrow stem cell donor. The same lady who has leukemia, who I don’t know with the latest donation in Feb of this year.
TAG,Good for you!
Sciguy:You are wrong, adult stem cells are being used in laboratory tests to grow human tissue such as heart valves and muscle tissue, for transplanting in human trials.Maybe not all the frozen embryos in storage can be thawed and implanted or go to “snowflake” adoptions by other couples, but I refuse to think that my taxes could be used to kill any of them. Anyway, greedy embryonic stem cell researchers, anxious for highly profitable patents for manufacturing human life through cloning, will never be satisfied with a few thousand frozen IVF embryos.Jed:The church that blamed a crippling disease on sin is a cult, not a church, a cult that does not teach the words of Christ. (John 9:1-3) At least it’s a cult that upholds medical ethics.Embryonic stem cell research, besides being unethical, has shown no evidence that it is ever likely to produce a cure for any disease or injury. Only fools demand taxpayer funding for it.
I’ve mentioned this before, but it bears repeating. You know, the media DOES blow out of proportion the possible disease-curing benefits of embryonic stem cell research. It’s not a magic pill, if there are cures to come from it, it will be many, many years.
HOWEVER, just because it may not have any practical benefit to us right now is not a good reason to abandon it. The process of a zygote dividing and differentiating into a human is a hugely complex, poorly understood process. It’s a web of cell signaling and gene regulation that we haven’t had an opportunity to study in depth. We need federal funding to create new lines, because as many have mentioned, there aren’t many interested in privately funding it until it starts to become promising and possibly $$-making.
Understanding cell differentiation is the key to understanding diseases like cancer and diabetes. This research is important. It’s always important to try and find out as much as we can about it. It’s not a magic cure, it may not directly benefit any of us alive today, but it’s important nonetheless.
For those of you who think that your taxpayer dollars should be used ONLY to fund things that are applicable to YOU and YOUR LIFE…keep in mind that your tax dollars are paying to, say, barcode every species of green algae in Hawaii. Any and all research is highly dependent on federal grants.
Those of you morally opposed to using would-be discarded embryos: you should be fighting for restrictions against IVF so that these embryos are not created in the first place.
Parkay:
No “heart valves” have been produced. They produced 3 cm discs of cells that might be used for repairing damaged valves. And if it works, well that’s just great! None of us care *how* the therapies are dervied, so long as they are. In addition, your attempt to infer that heart valves and muscles are complex organs is pretty lame. In order to use AS cells for organ generation, it has to “deprogram” from its adult state. Thus far, the only way of doing this is by nuclear transfer into an enucleated egg (or other ES) cell. But you probably also object to this, right?
Your position that people with dibilitating diseases shouldn’t be treated by ES cell research is not only unethical, it’s immoral. (How’re them apples?)
How can you be sure that those “greedy ES researchers” are not really just interested in saving lives and improving the quality of life? Don’t think for a second that you fundies have the moral high-ground (just look at the White House). Besides, I thought greed was a fundie family value.
The only complex organs (composed of multiple cell types) that have been produced to date have been generated using ES cells – not AS cells. As mentioned above (which you apparently missed or simply ignored) is the laboratory-generated pancreases that rescued diabetic mice.
Parkay,It seems disingenuous, to say the least, for your church to do everything in it’s considerable power to obstruct research, and then claim that since little progress has been made, that research should be abandoned. I repeat, it is unethical to discard material that, with proper investigation, may someday treat a host of human ills. The christian justification that suffering is somehow noble or purifying is bullshit, pure and simple. Ask someone who is actually suffering!Oh, and by the way, a cult is any religious view that the definer does not wish to be publicly identified with. It’s a word that long ago lost whatever small meaning it might have once had.