Ready or not, the first presidential debate of 2008 — and the earliest ever — will happen tonight in South Carolina, where an expected eight Democratic contenders will try to make an impression with 60-second answers in 90 minutes, not counting commercials. As a historian said, it’s not going to beat “Survivor” (actually, it starts an hour earlier). But “it just gives a couple of top people a chance to make a gaffe,” said political scientist Larry Sabato. That will make it precious fodder for what’s already being called the Blog Election.
Posted by Rhonda Holman
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34 Comments
Way too premature.
How about the voters disqualifying any candidate from either party that fell for the con game to sell the war in Iraq? The nation couldn’t survive two presidents in a row who are that gullible!
Edwards and Clinton would be eliminated for the so-called con game as they both made several ‘talking points’ about being for the invasion of Iraq.
Publican,Yup, they did. Along with nearly every republican in the country. The voters have their work cut out for them!
Give Edwards credit for repudiating his vote. At least SOME politicans are open to new information…unlike some presidents we know…
George changes his story — candidates can change there’s
sorry fleet — couldn’t remember where the ‘ was supposed to go … spelling wrong too — I can feel the heat coming lol
Mr. Con,Sorry, to little, too late. Enough information was out there before the war to create at least a reasonable doubt of WMD’s. If they chose not to listen, we don’t need ‘em.
At this point I like Richardson but he has zero chance and we have to stop Hillary so I am for Obama right now.
It is important to nominate sombody who can win and has some intelligence. We can win in 2008. The election is ours to lose. And hopefully we can elect more Senators- 60 or more- that will begin to undo the horrible damage the Republicans have done to the country.
Constitutional Amendment
When a President declares war with Congressional approval immediatley:
1. Draft is started.Exemptions: Damn near none.. ROTC cadets, students within 1 year of graduation from college(don’t finish in a year — grab a gun,top 25% by GPA in college, top 30% in critical needs programs, drop your gpa by 25% – go see a military recruiter of your choiceConscientious objector?, (well with in your right.) but you serve in some support function (think rosey the riveter)but no student loans, mentally and physical unable, age restrictions determined by military, some exemptions for police, firemen.
2. All wages, salaries and prices are frozen — ALL!!!
3. Active Duty military get an immediate 20% pay raise.
4. Military involved in combat operations get an additional 2k a month.
5. Immediate rationing of gas and any other materials needed for the war effort ….
one more
Leave the country to avoid the draft? — you don’t come back ever — no visits — you won’t stay and support your country — you’re not needed …….
I watched the last hour of the debate, and now I am watching the MSNBC show with Chris Matthews interviewing Biden. Matthews asserted that Clinton is still the front-runner. Says who? It’s way too early to be making statements like this and Matthews, like nearly all of the TV people, does it on a daily basis. You almost get the impression that they want Clinton in front and that they don’t want people like Richardson to have a shot. Yet I listen to Matthews from time to time and I don’t believe he likes the Senator from New York. I like Richardson and I think he’d be an interesting president. I also thought Obama debated well. Biden and Dodd? Hard to see where they have much of a chance.
so, ken. basically, the only exemptions are rich, smart, white people in college?
I thought you were a liberal?
I guess you’ll be voting for david duke.
sorry cap’n p
you make a good point —
not a liberal — life long independent retired military,
intention is to make sure eveyone shares the sacrifice of any war effort, was spur of the moment brainstorming on the notion — didn’t mean to leave out or limit any groups (rich, smart, white people), when I was in college long ago, never saw the distinction on campus, didn’t hang with the frat boys and girls etc …. was in an AF program for enlisted folks …. most of my the people I knew were in the same postion as me —
In a war the entire nation needs to be engaged in the effort — not just the poor and middle class of the nation that is fighting there now —
I agree with Kev that the nominee should have a real shot at winning. My hunch is that Hillary Clinton falls short because she won’t get enough support in the Midwest and the South. Edwards might make a good president but he was on the losing team in 2004 and, for reasons I can’t explain, somehow I don’t think he has the authority to finish the job in 2008. Biden is his own worst enemy with his mouth, not unlike Kerry. Again, that leaves Richardson. I think he would do well in the Midwest. Just a hunch.
I forgot Obama in the last post. He definitely has ability but lack of experience may be too much to overcome. Honestly, though, I think it’s hard to predict where an Obama campaign would go. It’s hard to get a handle on the variables.
Good points trt —
Hillary has alienated a lot of people it seems and will have a hard time
I think Edwards and Obama have a better appeal to the large under 45 demographic and if they can get out the vote they probably have the best chance to beat any Republican, they also seem to have a generally more positive approach, — I see no republican that is remotely attractive, but if a Dole, Ike or Kassebaum type would come along I would consider them —
Independent
Ken,
Yes. Whatever happened to moderate Republicans on the national stage? Even if a few of the current candidates on the GOP side are moderates at heart, they spend so much time coddling the far right during the campaign that there is no way in hell I could vote for them. Also, Republicans are unwilling to face the reality that with white collar jobs in the process of heading overseas in the next ten years, some kind of universal health care will be necessary to soften the blow for people in transition. A Princeton prof (not Krugman) made this point on Charlie Rose last night. And unemployment compensation will have to be much higher than it is now when jobs start going to Bangalore at a greater rate. Again, I fail to see where Republicans will face this reality. More happy talk about the market and how you can make it in this country if you’re willing to work? Yeah, you can expect to hear plenty of that. This descending shaft of light, however, will not be overly persuasive when people are hot because they can’t get hired and their teeth hurt.
Y’know, It’s getting quite amusing watching all you people trying to decide which you’d hate more as president, the black guy or the woman, while trying desperately not to call attention to either prejudice because you know you ought to just be ashamed of yourselves.
Jed,
Maybe you haven’t been watching Hillary Clinton the past few years. She has been on the fence on every major issue. She only speaks up when it’s safe. And I am tired of the Clintons and the Bushes.
Obama is a young guy without much experience in the Senate. It’s impossible to know if he can handle a grueling election on the national stage.
Maybe you’re the one with the prejudice, hey?
TRT has some reasonable analysis on this topic. I am real tired of the idea of a Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton presidencies. We, as a country, are not very accepting of the idea of familial dynasties.
Having said that, I will be cast out of my liberal democrat post by saying that Hiliary made some good points. Especially on the idea of universal health care. I will vote for her, if she is nominated by my party.
Bill Richardson is still my number one man. Not by his guns rights positions, but by his support of civil unions. He doesn’t stand a chance I am afraid.
I liked the Alaska guy, too – Gravel.
Edwards is a very decent man.
There did not seem to be a real clear front-runner from the debate tonight. And, that may be the dems greatest problem, now.
You Dems have fun sorting it out.
Joe,U too.
“one more
Leave the country to avoid the draft? — you don’t come back ever — no visits — you won’t stay and support your country — you’re not needed ……. ”
I agree. I don’t have any problem with saying “hell no I won’t go” but be a man about it and stand up and face it like Muhammed Ali did. Don’t run off to Canada. I was not happy when they gave amnesty to those who did.
“Maybe you haven’t been watching Hillary Clinton the past few years. She has been on the fence on every major issue. She only speaks up when it’s safe. And I am tired of the Clintons and the Bushes.
Obama is a young guy without much experience in the Senate. It’s impossible to know if he can handle a grueling election on the national stage.”
I say AMEN to that! I am tired of the Clintons and Bushs. I am honestly surprised that Jeb Bush isn’t in this thing too. As for Hillary she has too much scandle behind her. All that stuff about Whitewater and the White House Travel Office will be brought out again. And, quite frankly, she comes off as being a phony to me. As I said my choice would be Richardson but if it looks like it is coming down to Obama or her, I will vote for Obama. He may be young and have less experience but I do think he would surround himself with advisors and cabinet members that have what it takes to do the job.
“Y’know, It’s getting quite amusing watching all you people trying to decide which you’d hate more as president, the black guy or the woman, while trying desperately not to call attention to either prejudice because you know you ought to just be ashamed of yourselves.”
Don’t forget we have a Mexican in the running too. Richardson may not be a Mexican name but he is a Mexican. Unlike the Republicans, we value all people. The Republican candidates all are the same- white, male, rich and protestant.
trt — good post — i’ve always been pretty much a moderate / a REAL compassionate conservative maybe, and unaffiliated — your analysis is enlightening — wish i were as eloquent …. thanks
No doubt about it that I’m beating it in the ground and I promise to drop the subject after this post unless people want to talk about it further and I’m in the mood tonight after ziti.
One thing, at any rate, that winds my watch about TV coverage of the presidential race is that analysts tend to assume the numbers will play out the way they did in 2000 and 2004, with Ohio and Florida being the swing states. The scenario probably holds up if Clinton is the nominee or if any of the northeastern liberals get the nod. (As I said earlier, I can’t get a feel for how an Obama campaign plays out. He could hit a towering drive into the upper deck or he could go down swinging in a cloud of dust, and both options seem equally available.)
Richardson, though, in my view, causes Republicans all sorts of problems. He can slug it out, for instance, on foreign policy.
Here’s how it plays out with him: first, he holds the traditional blue states even though they disagree with him on gun control, mostly because too much is at stake with the Supreme Court. McCain and Rudy have been busy alienating moderates with strict constructionist pronouncements (Pennsylvania is the wild card here) and Richardson will play the tape back at full volume in ‘08, especially in the blue states. Second, Richardson puts Midwestern states in play. We like his matter-of-fact, straightforward style. You can argue about the states and I am probably wrong about some of these, but I predict Richardson puts New Mexico, Colorado, Iowa, Minnesota (think Ventura’s straightforward style), Missouri and Ohio within reach.
All they have to do is give the poor man the microphone. Why can’t establishment Dems see it?
Instead, you have veterans of defeat such as Bob Shrum up on MSNBC promoting a Clinton candidacy. How many presidential elections has Shrum lost in this lifetime, anyway? Ten? Twenty? Go home, Bob. Retire. Get yourself a nice, new scarf.
Okay. That’s it.
Another scenario TRT – how about Richardson for VP? A ‘liberal’ Senator coupled with a fairly bland but genious SW governor.
While I’m stuck with whoever the Dems nominate, I also realize the whoever gets elected is going to have to be one of America’s truly great presidents! We’re in such a mess after two terms of Bushllit that it’s going to take someone of excetional skill, wisdom and charisma to restore our country to a respectable leadership role in world affairs.Most of those now running fell headlong for the Bush propaganda con on WMD’s at the outset of this fiasco of a war. So much for wisdom. I haven’t seen where Obama did, so he’s earned my respect in that direction, but does he have the right stuff to be president? Time will tell, along with his response to the inevitable republican smears.Just once in my life, I’d love to find myself voting FOR a candidate for president rather than against his opponent! Unfortuately, my ideal candidate would be too decent and intelligent to put his family through the shitstorm we call a campaign these days.
Ben:
Sorry it took me so long to respond. I hit the road this morning the second I hit “post.”
Would Richardson agree to play VP? I wonder about that. I look at the guy and I see somebody who wants to be king, which is one reason I like him as a candidate. I’m confident that he’ll go out and knock heads with the opposition.
That said, you have to put him with the right person if he does agree to take the VP slought. I don’t think Hillary C. would work because, as I envision it, her handlers will try to muzzle the Guv and he won’t like it. They will try to control every little thing the guy does.
I see Obama as being easier to get along with. That might work, but Richardson would have to accept it that he’s in the number two slot even though he has a lot more experience.
Question: would putting him in the VP slot help pull some of the states that have been hard for the Dems to win of late?
“One thing, at any rate, that winds my watch about TV coverage of the presidential race is that analysts tend to assume the numbers will play out the way they did in 2000 and 2004, with Ohio and Florida being the swing states.”
They may assume wrong. Florida is not a swing state. It is pretty much a red state and the Dems should not waste time or money there. Ohio is winnable if they can get out the votes in Cleveland, Columbus and Toledo to offset the heavily Republican Cincinatti area. There are other states that the democrats can win including New Mexico, Arkansas and Louisana which should help offset Florida. The Democrat can win if he can turn out the voters. There are more of us than Republicans.
The Senators who voted for the war, especially Clinton, have floated this tale that they somehow fell for the WMD story when the invasion was being debated. I don’t buy this line of jive one bit. WMD or no WMD, it was clear to me and many people I knew at the time that going in would be a huge problem, especially in the aftermath. Anytime you asked the pro-war people what would happen after the initial invasion, they’d give you this blank look because they hadn’t thought about it.
I remember Senator Byrd of West Virginia raising hell on C-Span. He was one of the few who seriously called it into question at the time.
The Democratic Senators who voted for the invasion read the tea leaves and decided that it was the best thing to do for their political careers. It’s hard to see how they could have thought it was the best policy for the country.
So now you have Edwards with his apologies and Clinton with her baloney about, “Had I known then what I know now…”
And you have a hell of a lot of dead.
I happen to think it’s sad, just plain old sorry for the real people of the world who only wanted to live life in peace and got the hell bombed out of them instead.
Clinton? Edwards? Biden? Dodd? They walked in to the Chamber, cast the wrong vote for the wrong reason, and they’ve been paying ever since.
Do a thing right, roll the dice, have some guts, and maybe it won’t come back and take a bite out of you.