The Rev. R. Albert Mohler Jr. (in photo), president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, triggered a slew of discussion and outrage when he wrote on his blog about a possible genetic "cure" for homosexuality.
Mohler cited past studies and a recent article in Radar magazine that brought up the possibility of genetically treating fetuses for homosexuality. Mohler pondered a time in the future when a hypothetical hormonal patch could transform a mothers’ prenatal son or daughter from a homosexual into a heterosexual.
Human-rights and gay-rights groups have blasted Mohler, as have some Christian conservatives who are upset that he is open to the possibility that gayness may be biological and not a lifestyle choice.
Tyler Gray, the author of the article in Radar magazine, also is unhappy with Mohler’s use of his work. "You can’t just pick the parts that you like and say, ‘I’m going to use this to say that I would be OK with a treatment that would eradicate homosexuality,’ " he told the Washington Post.
Posted by Ross Stewart
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74 Comments
Gee, while they’re at it, maybe these geneticists can come up with a cure for religious bigotry too!
Is this guy taking the honors from Pat Robertson for being the most stupid comments he has made? Why not just love the child God gives you, regardless. Whatever happened to that concept?
Supremacist anti-gay religious fundamentalists do it again. They prove through their own words the extent to which they’re willing to go in order to annihilate gay people.
Why? The existence of gay people challenges the authority of the bible. Because many people come to know gay people as fully human and whole just as we are, our existence demonstrates that scripture can be wrong.
‘Reverend’ Albert is a despicable coward of a human being. Just think: children are told to look upon him as a role model. Bizarre.
Gee, while they’re at it, maybe these geneticists can come up with a cure for religious bigotry too!Posted by: Jed
Sorry Jed that is like what they say about Racism, it has to be taught! LoL you got me to laugh.
Yes in deed I can understand why many Fundamentalist are upset, in Lou of Nathan being here. “It is a choice not a mistake by God!” for them to come out now and say it is a genetic effect that can be righted. They would have to admit it was something God did.
But it does bring up an interesting question. Say you were expecting and the Doctor told you that the baby had a G.A.Y. gene. would you have the baby treated? Also in hindsight, if someone was gay and there was this treatment avalible would they choose to have it?
But if fundamentalists truly believe in God, they would not want to intervene in a science matter and tinker with the baby’s genetics – wouldn’t they?
But the big word here is ‘if’ they truly believe in God. How arrogant of the fundamentalists to think they can change something that their God made.
I thought this was already discussed here once…
Anyway, they always forget to bring up the author’s last paragraph:
“Christians must be very careful not to claim that science can never prove a biological basis for sexual orientation. We can and must insist that no scientific finding can change the basic sinfulness of all homosexual behavior. The general trend of the research points to at least some biological factors behind sexual attraction, gender identity, and sexual orientation. This does not alter God’s moral verdict on homosexual sin (or heterosexual sin, for that matter), but it does hold some promise that a deeper knowledge of homosexuality and its cause will allow for more effective ministries to those who struggle with this particular pattern of temptation. If such knowledge should ever be discovered, we should embrace it and use it for the greater good of humanity and for the greater glory of God.”
So everyone is getting their panties in a wad over a cure that hasn’t been developed yet for a condition that hasn’t been proved yet that you might be able to discover with a test that doesn’t exist.
Did I miss something?
Hank
The British television documentary “The Root of All Evil” helps explain why some religions are so hostile, and in particular the US Christian Right. The full documentary can be viewed on YouTube.com, at the following links:
The Root of All Evil – The God Delusion (Part 1 of 2)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ8_bIji7gQ(48 minutes)
The Root of All Evil – The Virus of Faith (Part 2 of 2)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4xIi-TwY-Y(43 minutes)
“Did I miss something?”
Yep. The short bus.
If there can be a genetic “cure” then that would seem to mean that there is a genetic “cause.” I’m confused. Don’t all those bible-thumpers preach that this is strictly a choice and has nothing to do with how God made us?
Being gay is no different than being mentally handicapped… it’s a birth defect.
There is no evidence that a ‘gay gene’ exists. There is no research that claims there is a ‘gay gene’.
Therefore, there is no way to determine an unborn baby is ‘gay’.
Therefore, there is no way to ‘cure’ a condition that does not exist.
People will always try to find ways to justify everything in their lives. There will always be the anti-Christ people who will accept everything down the pike just to ‘fit in’ because they are afraid to be different and commit and stand up for something. Being gay is the in thing today. It doesn’t make it right. I don’t have to accept it as right and if you want to call me a homophobe, that’s your opinion. My opinion is that acting out the gay lifestyle is morally wrong. There is nothing more disgusting than seeing people of the same sex acting like heteros.
What a total nutjob. Not only does his picture scare me but that he actually thinks this is a good idea.
When even the Fundies are outraged, then you know this is bad.
Here’s an argument though, say there is a god, and say he did make some people homosexuals and some not. Population control or is it just gods will the fundies would say..
*shrug* I say let people like and love who they want. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to do it do you?
*Walks In*
*Reads Thread*
*Shakes Head*
*Walks Out*
I have heard of similar studies where it is posited that people can be genetically disposed to be susceptible to religion or prone to conservatism. One hopes treatment for THIS is being developed.
If I had a baby that was gonna be born to be a conservative or a religious space case, I think I would have to consider medical intervention if not termination of the pregnancy.
As a black man I have a perspective that may be a little different. As a society this country has always had a minority group to isolate. First it was non whites. Then it was non males. Then the refugees from the Vietnam conflict. Now gays are on everyones radar. If homosexuality is genetic then so be it. If homosexuality is a choice then its not yours to make. If Christ has given you this cross to bear, then I wish you all the best. I thought Christ taught foregiveness and tolerance? Todays “Christians” demonstrate the exact opposite at every opportunity. Whether you like another persons lifestyle or not, who are you to judge? Where in the bible does it say that you are granted the right to point out “sin” by another human being? Organized religion is a simple hustle by wolves in sheeps clothing. And they will be judged one day. God have mercy on their souls.
Mike, you left out the Native Americans as the first ones. Now go donate your penance at the Kaw Casino.
My deepest apologies to the Native Americans…..thanks Republican….lol
I’m sure “Light-in-the-moccasins” will appreciate your including N.A. as one of the oppressed.
So this God of tolerance is found in the Bible? I guess that means I don’t know Him as well as I thought I did….OHH you’re confusing mercy and grace with tolerance! Silly me!
So, answer this. If the Old Testement’s “an eye for an eye” is trumped in the New Testement by “Love One Another”, why isn’t that whole abomination thing trumped by the same principal. First you have to ask yourself “Who was King James and where were his PERSONAL motives?” Yeah… I thought that might make you think for a second.
Thinks for a second…
Okay, I’m done.
Exactly. See God has the answer, not your religion. Wake up, God needs you, Terry Fox doesn’t.
Why is this topic even brought up? All it’s doing is causing hatred to grow, not debate.
You mean that Religion dictates thought and not God?
If all that is written in the Bible is true the following must also be true.If the Bible mentions that people should engage in homosexual activities, there must have been homosexuals. The Bible says God knew us before he created us in the womb. Therefore, God knowingly created homosexuals.
Dennis:Read Romans, chapter one, from the 18th verse to the end. It doesn’t say that anyone should engage in homosexual activities, indeed it condemns it. The bible describes acts of murder, theft and adultery, all of which are specifically banned in the ten commandments. One should be careful to discern the difference between that which the bible contains and that which the bible approves. Where on earth did you come up with the ridiculous idea you posted?
The lines of Fundamentalism and Fascism are narrowing.
Hey, my first troll.
lazy bastard
Dawg,Actually, they’ve discovered an area of the brain responsible for religion and the genes to go with it. First step in finding a cure…
*Steps back in*
*Sees same old arguments*
*Leaves before being stoned to death by the fundies*
Actually, I guess you need to rewrite the bible again for your own personal agenda. (that’s okay – it’s already been done for 1500 religions) If you’re referring to the King James Version (and it’s a proven fact that King James had much hate in his heart for anyone who didn’t think like him) that it talks about the “lust” between two indiviuals, man or woman. You’re under the assumption that God has only given love to a man and a woman and that shows how self-centered you’ve become. But you’re not to blame, your religion is. Sorry, your lust argument doesn’t work here. You, as a human, can claim that any word can be interperted towards your own end. You have to listen to God’s voice and realize what you’re reading in man’s interpretation. God speaks of love in general for all and in that context he doesn’t exclude any aspect of love between humans. It’s humans who have made You weren’t born gay so you shouldn’t argue like you “think” you know what others have experienced. I worship a God that is full of love, but that’s between him and me.
I’m almost sure Jesus and his disciples spent a majority of there time teaching us to organize huge anti-protests and to ask for faith offerings to promote an agenda of hate and intolerance. However, the Bible never really spoke about the “Angry Christian lifestyle”, which we all know is a choice. This became evident to me after reading KS Senator Sam Brokeback’s recent anti-everything article, I looked up from the page and saw the signs of wonder. The neon sign indicated evidence of a protein like hormone, similar to a variant virus that can be altered during pregnancy to correct this evil scourge of hate. Oh Lord, maybe I’m being stupid I thought to myself, we still have abortion to correct evil vile lifestyle choices. You must know this is a work of fiction, no one in their right mind would bother reading anything written by Sam I am.
GMAN
Do you know of any parent that wouldn’t have the treament for their child if it worked? Only a mean parent would want a child to be gay knowing that people are so hateful towards him.
On a lighter side: Do you know what a “Gay Man” in Wichita is defined as?
Married with two kids.
If I found out I were carrying a gay child, indeed I would be torn. No one wants to see another person go through the hell that many gay people go through. To abort the child, however, would indicate my own lack of acceptance of the issue. I would go ahead and carrry the child. People aren’t hated because they deserve it. People are hated because haters need to hate. And I would teach the child to feel sorry for those people, and to develop his or her own sense of self-worth regardless of what others say.
Damn, well said Buff.
I don’t think any parent wants their child to suffer. So if there was a cure all parents would get it. That doesnt make the parent bad just that they love the child and dont want it to suffer. Fred Phelps is not the only mean person to gay people. I dont think women should abort gay babys but they shoudl be happy to cure them if they can.
I attend Baylor University, a very strong conservative Southern Baptist ideals advocate. I am ashamed by these comments and the recent actions in general. Perhaps after we come up with a cure for homosexuality we could slap patches on pregnant mothers to cure lying, stealing murder etc. This isn’t just wrong on a scientific “what if we could” level, this is a clear contradiction of christianity. On a side note in case any of you had not heard of the news from the Southern Baptist stronghold (Baylor University), 6 members of a group called SoulForce were arrested yesterday. The group was not allowed to have any kind of convention, and were arrested for chatting with students about their beliefs. To complete this rambling post, the question arises, when is altering a fetus for supposed beneficial purposes to much? There are countless surgeries and procedures to correct various defects, but where should we draw the line?
Let me make one correction, when I said “a very strong conservative Southern Baptist ideals advocate”, i was reffering to Baylor University, not myself.
Aaron is the problem to be fixed the gay baby or the attitude toward the gay baby?
People are mean and life is hard for those with many ‘afflictions.’Where is the line? Should the genes all fetus be modified to reflect the traits the parents think will make their life easy?Eugenics anyone?
“Eugenics anyone?
I’m in.
too late for you fleetwood, don’t you have kids already?
As an expecting mother, I would never want for my child to suffer. But I certainly would never tamper with them just to avoid riducle and hostility. If I prayed, I would ask God to give all of the homophobic close-minded morons a gay son or daughter. Lucky for me, I have learned that prayer gets you as far as hatred…..NO WHERE!
Hannah,’I would ask God to give all of the homophobic close-minded morons a gay son or daughter.’ Unfortunately it did not work for Dick Cheney.
“…don’t you have kids already?”
I did. They weren’t perfect, so I killed them.
Maybe you could start the gay baby patrol:)
I think I saw a couple of them playing a little to close in the nursery the other day.
I already have, brian. That’s the name of my band.
This topic has actually been around for quite a long time.
The National Right to Life organization predicted that “designer babies” would eventually be in vogue, that prediction made at least 20 years ago. That has now come to pass.
Type “designer baby” into your browser, would you?
If we find a gene that leads to violence, abort the baby!If we find a gene that leads to alcohol abuse, abort the baby!Same with homosexuality!
This is nothing new. However, it is the political right that warned the world of this moral dilemma, long ago!
I think there might be a gene that leads to bad spelling and a testy mood when I work too hard. That doesnt relieve me of trying my best.That is all that these ministers are saying!However, it is the pro-abortion crowd that wants the right to abort for any reason or no reason at all.Is it your business to STOP the abortion of a baby with a “gay gene” ???Lets try to be consistent.
It is not the religious right that looks like a bunch of Nazi’s here.
The religious right actually warned us this was comming!
Pall,Please don’t try to hijack this thread; the argument was for genetic treatment, not your favorite subject, abortion.
Paul Rosell can be reduced to three components.
bush is always right
abortion is always wrong
It is ok to burn down the planet if it helps the economy.
Sheesh if I had a kid with those conservative genes in it? I’d let it be born and abandon it in the sewer.
Hannah, you say you would never tamper with your child if it were gay – but would you tamper with him if he had a cleft palate? It migh be just as hard for a child to live with the torment of those intolerant of gays as for a physical deformty.I don’t see the difference, both are emotionally painful to a child. I would think all parents would change a gay baby if they could. I mean if they love itand all.
I dont think any baby shoud be put in a sewer. That is an extreem measure even if your mad at them. It would be child abuse and punishable by law and jail.
It’s hyperbole Aaron.
Though it might explain Paul.econ101Rosell.
How to tell if your fetus is gay?
I cannot wait to hear the plan.
Aaron S.,
Your parents missed a great opportunity to make a positive change to you as a fetus – an abortion.
Do you encourage abortion if downs syndrome is detected in a fetus?
jr-Do you wish to answer my questions now?
“”Only the greedy…”
Pleased to wondering what you think “greedy” means?”
“”"Why would someone spend millions to build something, anything, that was not needed?”"
Come on, jr, step up. The BDP demand an answer.”
The Big Dick Poster still wants to know.
:)
Why is it that we cannot ever seem to have a discussion as to the causes of homosexuality without being called a “homophobe”. I am not a homophobe and I support gay rights 100% and have since the days of Anita Bryant. But, at the same time, I do not believe homosexuality is “normal”. It is not normal. The normal thing is a man and a woman. This is true not only for humans but for all the animal world. We do not know know what causes homosexuality. It could be genetic, a chemical imbalance, psychological- who knows. But we should research it and, if we should discover a cure for the cause someday, of course we should use it or make it available.
I hijacked nothing.
“Stamp out birth defects” is the battle cry of one well-known charity. They do this not so much by finding cures, but by eliminating the defective!
Abortion is actually one of my least favorite subjects, but the left must answer for its dishonesty on this issue.
A “gay gene” will lead to fetal testing which will lead to abortion of gay babies. I am against that outcome.
You would rather ignore the consequences of YOUR favorite cause!
By the way, I typed in “serial killer” in my browser and pulled up the following.Another thread this week brought up serial killers.I did not intend to make this link but here it is, anyway:
http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet4.html
I fully realize that the link, above, will be dismissed as “right wing” or “hate” — that is not my point at all. My point is that if we start looking for things that are coincidence we forget that we are all individuals.
Again, I typed in “serial killers” and got the above link. I then typed in “Homosexual serial killers” and got 106,000 hits.
My point? This is dangerous stuff. Probability and tendancy do not relieve us, gay or straight, from culpability!
By the way, the first person to mention the violent of SOME tendancy of gays to me was a gay friend!
My advice to other gay friends?
Be carefull!
there is a dyslexia gene, I am sure of that:”The violent tendancy of some gays”
Well maybe you dyslexics need to untie someplace else.
unite?Untie?
Jed made a funny!Very good Jed
Pall,Good- I wasn’t sure you’d get it.
If geneticists can cure gayness, then that means designer babies are not that far off. Just think no more birth defects, ugly people, fat people, short people, we will be able to design the master race. This is a good thing.
Ok, I have to ask. How do you tell if the fetus is gay? Does it decorate the womb in a very hip and attractive way?
Your placenta is just so faaabbbulllouss!
I wish geneticists could cure bigotry, but unfortunately that’s a choice!
So, let me get this straight. There’s only ONE reason in the entire world that it is NOT ok to kill a pre-born child? As the pro-aborts are fond of saying regularly “Who are YOU to decide for ANY woman what to do with her body?” But, it’s ok to kill a pre-born child because he or she will grow up poor or fatherless or adopted or with a mental or physical disability?
I am laughing my butt off at some of the comments from “pro-choice” people who are also “pro-gay”. Some of them are verbatim from pro-life organization sites. They fail to see the irony in their “suddenly offended by abortion” objections. The horror of the gay community is understandable, yet the pro-aborts have consistently discounted the same objections to abortion that disability advocate groups have had for decades. NO ONE has the right to decide whether a life is worthy of being lived…except God.
Quite a dilemma, no? The hypocrisy is overwhelming yet predictable, and I’m watching closely to see how the pro-aborts handle this one.