The coalition between Hamas and Fatah parties in Palestine changes nothing.
Fatah is a political group with a more moderately placed stance in Palestine. But with terrorist-supporting Hamas still in charge, the West will never get what it wants — for Palestine “to recognize Israel, forswear violence and accept previous Israeli-Palestinian agreements.”
This new arrangement between Hamas and Fatah fulfills none of those three conditions, even though they say they want to extend the often-broken cease-fire with Israel.
Posted by Ross Stewart
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17 Comments
Cue Ed in 3, 2, 1…..
First of all Hamas is not a terrorist organization. It is a political organization with an army much like the IRA and Sien Fien in Ireland. Secondly there is no reason to recognize Israel’s so called “right to exist” because it has no right to exist. Israel is a creation of western powers and neo colonialist wanting to plant themselves in the middle east on somebody else’s land. If they really felt a need for a “Jewish Homeland” after the Halocaust, it should have been created by carving up Germany which, after all, was guilty of the horrible crimes against the Jews. Taking somebody else’s land is not going to solve anything.
We really need to take a step back and take a good look at the Israeli/ Palestinian issue. Though often we see it as a domestic issue between the two, the rest of the Middle East see it as quite important. It is a driving force behind quite a bit of the hostility toward the West. In the war on terrorism that is one of the leading issues that has brought us to this point. Defusing it would take a good part of the drive from the fundamentalists.
In a sense it is the only part that is often driven by religion on both sides, I remember growing up and in both Sunday school and church services. That the importance of supporting Israel and what they do was about supporting God. They are God’s chosen people, to question their actions or not to support them was the same as question and not supporting God!
Bin Laden and his ilk see this fight as driven by religion they will not be happy until they have imposed a religious theocracy world wide. Settling the Israel/ Palestinian issue will not change that, but it would change some of those that would align themselves with Bin Laden fighting what is perceived as a common enemy.It is such a important issue that at one time the King of Saudi Arabia told Washington he would pull his support of America. Because President G.W. Bush did not seem to come down hard enough on Israel for a mass attack on the Palestinians that killed several hundred. “We can not support you any farther when you support Israel in their expression that the spilling of one drop of Israeli blood is worth a thousand Palestinian lives”. After Prince Bandar delivered the personal message to President Bush, Collin Powell stopped Bandar in the Hallway and asked “What the F##K are you doing? You scared the hell out of everyone here!”.
The fundamentalists in Saudi Arabia are Sunni and highly supportive of Bin Laden. They are the greatest threat to the King, this issue fuels much of the fire to overthrow the King because he is a friend of the U.S.It could be more effective in the fight then several tons of bullets and a million tons of bombs.
Writerdog! Collin Powell saying the f word? I thought that was condemn by the Democrats?
But you are absolutely correct. The whole issue of supporting Israel is a religious issue.
Christians think the area known as Israel are Holy and Sacred and therefore support Israel in that way. With long standing fueds between Musliums and Christians dating back from the Crusades to the Ottoman Empire and WWI, Christians don’t see Islam in a good light. And for one, they have a point. Islam is a violent religion. They would rather see the Jews control the area, than Muslims, because Jewish people are procieved to be friendly and tolerant towards Christians.
But Jewish people were immigrating into what we now know as Israel, much eariler than WWII. And having large numbers of Jewish people is that area, they Declared Independence. Yep! You got it, for all of you leftist anti-semities out there! The same thing the US did from Britian.
There were scrimishing between Jews and Musliums in that area for quite awhile (before it became Israel, it actually was under the protectorant of Britian)
The United Nations approved the creating of the new nation, but divided it into two states. with the Jewish area consisting of roughly 55% of the land, and the Arab area consisting of roughly 45%. Jerusalem was to be designated as an international region administered by the UN to avoid conflict over its status.
To this day! The conflict between the Palentianiens and Jews are over small tracts of land.
I’m not defending or supporting Israel. If it wasn’t considered Holy Land by a dominating religion in our country, we wouldn’t care or fund them to the extent that we do.
Our demand that Palestine recognize Israel while we make no similar demand of Israel is a de facto demand that Palestine surrender completely and submit to Israeli rule. That is an untenable situation.
It would make more sense to demand MUTUAL recognition and MUTUAL pullback. Establish a border based on UN Security Council resolutions. Armed troops (EU and other countries have offered them) to enforce the borders. MUTUAL respect for territorial integrity based on those borders. Then work on nation-building in Palestine as they have had no self-rule for over a generation.
Yeah Kev, IRA is/was not a terrorist organization…
Go visit the graves of those who died to the many bomb attacks of the IRA and explain that to their families.
Ahh Kev, I understand you know, an anti-Semite, pro-Palestinian.
You know, Timothy McVeigh had exactly the same views you did.
The anti-Israel propoganda on this Blog is sickening but must ber addressed:
There were as many Jews and Moslems in the original, UN sponsored state of Israel. There were also a good number of Christians within those boundaries.
It is wrongheaded to say the UN “took” land from anyone.The area in question was inhabited mostly by shepards and nomads. The idea of land ownership was foreign to them, much like most American Indian tribes. Moreover, no country actually claimed the land in question.For good reason: the original boundaries of UN created Israel contains not a drop of oil! Also, it is mostly desert.Take a look at a map, please! We are talking about a very, very small piece of land.Also, the desire of the West to preserve Christian and Jewish religious sites is valid.Radical Moslems tend to destroy historical artifacts, synogogues and churches.Israel protects religious sites of all faiths.There are many other reasons to support Israel.It is important to note that many Arabs, Moslems and Christians are elected to various political offices in Israel.Israel is the only true Democracy in the region, perhaps Iraq can join them soon!There are no Christians or Moslems serving in government posts in any Moslem state that I know of.The most common form of death in Palestinian Gaza is “honor killing” or the brutal beating death of woman for the slightest “dishonor” to their families. This might be declining an arranged marriage, talking to a man without permission, or any other perceived “dishonor”.Yes, not far from where Jesus wrote the sins of the mob in the sand in order to save an adulterere who was about to be stoned, the barbaric Palestinian culture kills women for simply not being subservient enough to the males in their family!Why does this matter?Simple: many Arabs and many Moslems PREFER Israeli rule over Arab rule, and for very, very good reason!
The Man, The Myth, The Idiot:Four years on, war costs Bush at home and abroad By David Alexander1 hour, 10 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Four years after he began the Iraq war, a diminished President George W. Bush has sacrificed much of his domestic agenda and eroded U.S. credibility abroad in pursuit of the sort of nation-building he once scorned, analysts say.
ADVERTISEMENTThe president’s job approval ratings have fallen from 90 percent shortly after the September 11 attacks to just over 30 percent.
He forfeited the dream of cementing Republican control over Congress and his administration is increasingly under fire from Democrats and Republicans alike.
“There is simply no question in my mind that the Iraq war has substantially undercut Bush’s ability to get other things done domestically or internationally,” said Richard Eichenberg, a professor at Tufts University who has studied Bush’s approval ratings.
“When he was re-elected in the fall of 2004 he interpreted the election … by saying that ‘I have political capital. I’m going to spend it.’ But the fact of the matter is he’s spent it all on Iraq and he’s got precious little left,” Eichenberg said.
After the Iraq invasion, Bush’s approval ratings became linked to casualty figures and less tied to traditional factors like the economy, Eichenberg and Richard Stoll of Rice University found in researching the president’s poll numbers.
“It resembles in a lot of ways what happened with President (Lyndon) Johnson in Vietnam,” Stoll said. The war “sort of looms so large that it pushes almost everything else off the agenda.”
In his initial years in office, Bush pushed an 11-year, $1.35 trillion tax cut through Congress, overhauled the nation’s education law and added a drug benefit to the health insurance program for the elderly.
His job approval ratings skyrocketed to 90 percent after the September 11 attacks and that support helped him push through a massive reorganization of the federal intelligence and emergency response operations, consolidating them into the Department of Homeland Security.
Even after he launched his war on terrorism against al Qaeda and its Taliban backers in Afghanistan, Bush maintained solid support at home and abroad, especially among allies in Western Europe, Eichenberg said.
APPROVAL SLIPS WITH IRAQ WAR
Concern over Bush’s policies began to mount after his invasion of Iraq on March 20, 2003. His declaration that major combat operations had ended six weeks later under a banner proclaiming “Mission Accomplished” was considered hasty.
Inspectors failed to turn up weapons of mass destruction, Bush’s justification for the war, and Americans were slow to stop looting, restore electrical power and revive oil production. The Iraq enterprise began to look like a rushed job with little justification and no postwar planning.
As the death toll mounted, Bush’s job approval numbers began a slide that has continued until now. He narrowly won re-election in 2004 pledging to win the war on terror, reform the Social Security retirement program, deal with illegal immigration and solidify the Republican majority in Congress.
He made little headway on domestic issues after the vote.
“I can’t think of a single major piece of legislation that he has either influenced or shaped,” said Paul Light, a professor at New York University who follows Congress.
Bush’s Republican Party lost control of Congress in the 2006 elections amid scandals and rising public discontent over the war.
Since taking power in Congress, Democrats have kept the administration on the defensive, pushing through their own agenda, conducting investigations and prodding Bush to change course on Iraq.
The U.S. image abroad continues to suffer, despite a concerted administration effort to repair the damage by consulting with other governments.
“The impact has been devastating,” Eichenberg said. “American standing abroad is by all measures at its lowest point in history. This is true in Europe, this is true in other parts of the world. Whether this can be reversed in a new administration, Republican or Democrat, we will have to see.”
SteveAmerica was at its lowest under Jimmy Carter.The Democrats had strangeled Ford, and made it impossible to save South Vietnam, though the US never lost a real battle in Vietnam.Then Carter dissed the Shah and the radicals took over Iran.That was our low point.Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot!
Thank you Steve for that Bush-Hating moment.
Ratings? What is that about, the David Letterman show popularity contest?
I have never been worried about what Europe thinks about the United States nor any other country. If you ever been overseas, you will realize that most of the people have great misconceptions about the U.S.
They don’t understand the people, the U.S. Market and hardly even understand U.S. policy or even our form of government.
If you go to downtown London, Frankfurt or Paris and ask their citizen how the U.S. Government works, most of them won’t have a clue.
I belong to a couple of other forums and they have no idea how big the U.S. is compared to their own European Country.
One guy from Britain was telling me how efficient the UK was in transportation and etc.
I reminded him that the UK could fit inside the state of Oregon. And also reminded him that there are 61 million people crammed into that space.
Of course, the typical European response was, “I don’t see your point.”
Being clueless about transportation issues and the size of geographical landscape one has to deal with is just one of the many things that Europeans are clueless about.
Timothy McVeigh and me have nothing in common. McVeigh was a conservative Republican who hated lots of people. While him and me might agree on the government’s illegal attack at Waco, I would submit that McVeigh is anti Jewish. I am for the Jews. For that matter I am not anti Israel. I am just opposed to supporting the theft of somebody else’s land and I do not blame the Arabs for being highly pissed off about it. I agree that the Jews have been very badly treated throughout history. Most of the Jews are very nice and wonderful human beings. You look at the biggest contributors to charity in this country and you will see Jewish names at the top of the list. But that does not solve the problem of Israel. What will solve the problem is when the USA takes a neutral stand towards the issue and when the Jews quit allowing a small minority of militants in Israel to dictate policy there. Then maybe we can sit down and talk and maybe come to a MUTUAL recognition of both Palestine and Israel. Just maybe.
While him and me might agree on the government’s illegal attack at Waco, I would submit that McVeigh is anti Jewish. Timothy McVeigh and me have nothing in common.mailto:KevinKitchen@Hotmail.com
LOL! Okay there buddy. :)
Don’t send me any spam either!
AgainThe land currently under Israel’s control was NEVER another country.In the entire history of the land held by Israel, that land has always been controlled by Romans, Turks, Persians or been left to the nomads.Never, in modern times, has Israel or Palestine governed itself until the UN created the modern state of Israel.You cant “take” what did not exist.And— there were as many Jews as Moslems in this region, just prior to the UN creating the Israeli state!
Haifa, Hebron, Bethlehem, Nablus … all of these cities are hundreds of years old. While Palestine was not an independent state before WW 1 it was an autonomous region of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottomans could not totally rule their empirs; they allowed significant self-government.
After WW1 Palestine came under the rule of Britain; it was during that time that European Jews, fleeing a thousand years of persecution at the hands of Christians, began to migrate there.
This accellerated greatly after WW2 and the Holocaust. It was during the late 40s that massive terrorism began in the region, culminating in the terror-bombing of the Kong David Hotel in Jeruselum. It was this terrorism that led to the British departure; the terrorists won.
These terrorists, including such people as Menachem Begin and others, became the government of the State of Israel. The United States supported this terrorist movement as they drove the British out; we subsequently supported the government it became.
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Palestine/Kingdavid.htm
“On the morning of the 22nd of July 1946 a party of between 15 and 20 Jews, dressed as an Arabs entered the King David Hotel. The hotel housed the Secretariat of the Government of Palestine and Headquarters of the British Forces in Palestine and Transjordan. The terrorists were able to enter the building without arousing too much attention because part of the building was still being used as a hotel and other people frequented it. The Jews pretended to be an Arab working party. Having unloading from their lorry several milk churns filled with 225 kilogram’s of explosive, they placed them in the basement of the wing of the hotel occupied by the Secretariat.”
The United states cannot claim that we never deal with terrorists. We have dealt with terrorists such as these for decades.
Looking at Palestine today we should ask how we can claim to favor democracy when we would deny that to the people of Palestine. Why did Hamas win the election? Perhaps our refusal to deal with Fatah contributed to that. We did everything we could to undermine Fatah; now we claim that we want to support Fatah.
As in Lebanon, our actions in Palestine play into the hands of the extremists. The fact that we have declared the people of both of those lands to be our enemies drives them to seek support elsewhere. Thus we see the people of Palestine and of Lebanon seeking help from Syria and Iran. With the US as their enemy they must do that. Perhaps if we were to try supporting democracy in both of those places we might be able to undercut hamas and Hezbollah. However, by undercutting those we claim to support we strengthen our enemies.
Naked, drunk, surrounded by sex toys – it’s the Israeli ambassador
Rory CarrollMarch 13, 2007The Guardian
As an Israeli ambassador, Tsuriel Raphael was accomplished at putting a gloss on delicate subjects, be it Tel Aviv’s nuclear programme, the treatment of Palestinians or the invasion of Lebanon.
When San Salvador police discovered him in his official embassy residence yard in the capital San Salvador, however, smooth talk was not really an option. For starters there was the gag and the rubber ball in his mouth. There was also the matter of being drunk. And naked. And bound. And surrounded by sex toys.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,2032492,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12
From Haaretz in Israel
Poll: Over 25% of Israeli Arabs say Holocaust never happenedBy The Associated PressMore than a quarter of Israel’s Arab citizens believe the Holocaust never happened, and nearly two thirds of Israeli Jews avoid entering Arab towns, a poll by a University of Haifa sociologist showed Sunday.
The poll, conducted by Sami Smoocha, a prominent sociologist at the University of Haifa, showed a wide gap of mistrust, anger and fear between Israel’s majority Jews and its Arab citizens, who make up a fifth of Israel’s citizens.
In its most dramatic finding, the poll showed that 28 percent of Israeli Arabs did not believe the Holocaust happened, and that among high school and college graduates the figure was even higher – 33 percent.
According to Smoocha’s analysis, radicals in the Arab world believe the Holocaust to be a political event, and many feel that by denying it they are expressing opposition to Israel.
Among Israeli Jews, 63 percent said they avoid entering Arab towns and cities, and 68 percent fear the possibility of civil unrest among Israeli Arabs.
Pollsters interviewed 721 Arabs and 702 Jews. The margin of error was 3.7 percentage points. Asked about Israel’s war with Hezbollah guerrillas in Lebanon last summer, nearly half of the Israeli Arabs polled – 48 percent – said they believe that Hezbollah’s rocket attacks on towns in northern Israel during that war were justified, even though numerous Arabs were killed and wounded in those attacks.
While 89 percent said they view Israel’s bombing of Lebanon as a war crime, only 44 percent said they see Hezbollah’s attacks on Israel as such. Hezbollah pelted northern Israel with nearly 4,000 rockets
While 89 percent said they view Israel’s bombing of Lebanon as a war crime, only 44 percent said they see Hezbollah’s attacks on Israel as such. Hezbollah pelted northern Israel with nearly 4,000 rockets.
Half of Israeli Arab respondents said Hezbollah’s capture of Israel Defense Forces reserves soldiers Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev in a cross-border raid was justified. That incident sparked the 34-day conflict.
In a press release accompanying the poll’s publication, Smoocha expressed surprise at the results.
“One would have expected more pro-Israeli results among Israeli Arabs due to the uniqueness of the most recent war: a war with no involvement of the Palestinians, a war in which the lives and belongings of Israelis were endangered, a war against an Islamic fundamentalist group that most of them don’t support,” Smoocha said.
MK Ahmed Tibi (United Arab List-Ta’al) said he doubted some of the findings. Tibi said he could not explain the numbers indicating support for Hezbollah, but noted that usually there is no empathy for the aggressor, which Tibi said was Israel.
Tibi also said he doubted that the statistics on Holocaust denial reflect the situation in the Arab elite. Tibi called the Holocaust the worst crime ever against humanity and said Holocaust denial is immoral.
But some of the sentiments, he said, “might stem from reservations about the way the Holocaust is used as a political tool by Israel.”
The poll also found that Israeli Arabs have fears about their future in Israel: 62 percent worry that Israel could transfer their communities to the jurisdiction of a future Palestinian state, an idea supported by one of the parties in Israel’s current governing coalition. Sixty percent said they are concerned about a possible mass expulsion.
Among the Arab respondents, 76 percent described Zionism as racist.
But more than two thirds said they would be content to live in Israel as a Jewish state, if it existed alongside a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/839029.html